Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

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brihaspati
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

The Saudi Connection
Since the beginning of the 1990s, Saudi Arabia has contributed very much to what Lashkar-e-Taiba looks like, how it thinks, its motivation, ideology, and funding. Saudi newspapers at the time published calls for jihad to support all Muslim struggles around the world. Kashmir was seen as a place where jihad was taking place, so donations were solicited for the Muslims living there. Allah was said to bless the warriors of this financial jihad.

In August 1999, the Saudi newspaper Al Jazeera reported on a press conference conducted by the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), a Saudi-based charity supervised by the government. The group's secretary-general, Maneh al-Johani, praised the role played by Saudi Arabia in providing assistance to Muslims around the world, especially in Kashmir. Johani equated the Kashmir issue with the situation in Kosovo and Palestine, and called on Muslims to help the Kashmiri people.

Radical Wahhabi, Salafi, Saudi Islam sees the world in confrontation, with zones of jihad where Muslim minorities are struggling politically and religiously against other forces. The struggle can be with Israel, Serbia, India, or the Philippines. Saudi Arabia presents itself as the protector and the spearhead of the defense of Muslims around the world against what the former Supreme Religious Authority of Saudi Arabia, the late Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz (Ben Baz), defined as the Western cultural attack.

This is the ideology behind Saudi politics. The Saudis are very committed to recruiting, funding, and funneling ideology to those Muslim minorities, and use Muslim charities as their tool to implement this policy. In September 2000, the Saudi newspaper Al Jazeera reported on an additional press conference by WAMY Secretary-General Johani, who discussed Saudi Arabia's role in providing aid to Kashmir and asked the Islamic countries to play an effective part in saving Kashmir's Muslims. Johani described the Kashmiri people's jihad and noted that they had suffered thousands of casualties. "The Kashmiri people want to protect their Islamic entity and we must help them," he concluded.

[...]
The Saudi methodology is to take advantage of a humanitarian crisis to get a foot in the door. Who could be against assisting widows and orphans and setting up schools and clinics? It is a methodology that has been duplicated all around the world. Since direct assistance to armed groups is problematic for Saudi Arabia, they use "charities," which are actually organizations that use the social network called the dawa to propagate their ideology through mosques, health clinics, and madrassas, to influence minds and recruit supporters to Wahhabi-style ideology and commitment. Some of the money is indeed funneled to support terrorism - families of suicide bombers.

It is now evident that the so-called Saudi non-governmental charities are closely monitored by the Saudi government. The Saudis have understood that they were under pressure from the West and so they were very willing to sacrifice the Al-Haramain charity. It was banned and dismantled, but other charities were not, like the Islamic Relief Organization (IRO). The Saudi charities just change names and, unfortunately, nothing concrete is being done. There is no all-out campaign to dismantle all those charities.
Lashkar-e-Taiba would not have evolved to the scale they have reached without Saudi assistance. One key Saudi who helped build Lashkar into such an efficient and highly-trained organization is Abdul Aziz Barbaros. Barbaros, whose real name is Abdul Ahman el-Dosfari, fought with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He was one of the founding members of Lashkar in Kashmir after the end of the Afghan war. He also traveled to Bosnia to assist the al-Qaeda-oriented mujahidin brigades there. During the 1980s and 1990s Barbaros served as a critical link between Lashkar, wealthy and pious Saudi financiers, and Pakistani and Muslim fanatics around the world.

Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin in Gaza routinely delivered speeches addressed to Lashkar-e-Taiba militant rallies in Kashmir and Pakistan.
This is an example of the general mindset of radical Islamic solidarity. The Hamas leader in Gaza showed that he cared about what was happening with other Muslim minorities around the world, as they should care about what is happening in Gaza or the West Bank. This is not necessarily directly connected to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In Iraq, this is seen as a struggle against the American "Crusade occupation." This reflects Bin Laden's 1998 declaration of jihad, when he spoke of the Islamic front against the Crusaders and the Jews. So everything is linked and what happened in Mumbai has a wider perspective.

Is GOI doing the "lovey-dovey" with KSA with enough caution?
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

How many of us feel sorry for the Ahmadyias of Paki occupied western India?
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Ah ... ashmir.pdf
During the struggles for the liberation of Kashmir, Imam of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at was the first person who paid attention to Kashmir. He initiated the jihad for Kashmir. At his call young and old, trained and untrained members of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at joined the jihad. Arms were provided to them and they were helped monetarily and an organisation was established for them.

These are historical facts and cannot be ignored by the opponents of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at. As much as they would like to, they cannot erase this history. At the time when organised efforts were being made by Pakistan for the freedom of Kashmir and the freedom forces were struggling on their own, Jama‘at-e-Islami was issuing terrible fatawa and propagating that it was not jihad anymore. They advised not to join it [the struggle for Kashmir] with the presumption that it is jihad—[saying that] you may give it any name other than jihad. In other words, an oppressed country where the lives of Muslims were at stake, where Muslim countries from around the globe started taking steps to protect them; at that time, a fatwa was being published from Jama‘at-e-Islami’s instructing not to go near [Kashmir] since ‘it was not jihad.’

At that time, the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at established Furqan Force. It was the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at that offered a full battalion to fight against the enemy at its own expense. Afterwards, this battalion was recognised by the government for its meritorious deeds. This battalion included young members who were the only sons of their mothers.

When Hadrat Musleh-e-Mau‘udra announced the armed struggle for the liberation of Kashmir, some of the Ahmadis living in villages thought that it was an ordinary scheme and that it would not matter if one did not partici- pate in it. They thought that if it were a religious scheme or a question of Jama‘at [Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at] services then they would be ready but in the matter of Kash- mir there were other Muslims who could fight for it. But Hadrat Musleh-e-Mau‘udra was very concerned when no one put forward their names from the villages. He sent a message, and the person delivering the message told the villagers that they could not imagine how concerned Hadrat Musleh-e-Mau‘udra was about Kashmir. He added: ‘I have brought the message of Hudur saying: Get up and offer your sacrifices for the Islamic World.’ The person who car- ried the message at that time said that a lady stood up and said: ‘I am astonished and filled with shame to see that message of the Khalifah is before you [people of the village] and you are not moving; I have got one son and I offer him with the prayers that God Almighty should grant him martyrdom, and I should not see his face again.’ This is the sense of honour that was being shown by the Ahmadi mothers. Hadrat Musleh-e-Mau‘udra narrated this incident in his speech...
[...]

Looking at such selfless services of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at, some God fearing non-Ahmadi people felt it too and they testified [about the sacrifices of Ahmadis during that time]. We have their testimonies with us. One Hakim Ahmad Din, President Jama‘at-ul-Masha’ikh Sialkot wrote in his magazine Qa’id-e-A‘zam—January 1949:
Currently out of all the Muslim organisations, the Qadiani sect of Ahmadi Jama‘at is number one. They have been organised from the beginning, are punc- tual in prayers and fasting etc. Their missionaries are successful not only here but outside in foreign coun- tries as well. They played a major role in the success of Muslim League for the creation of Pakistan. In Jihad-e-Kashmir the kind of sincere and whole- hearted participation shown by Ahmadi Jama‘at along the side of Kashmir’s Mujahidin and the sacri- fices shown by this Jama‘at cannot be observed, in our opinion, in any other Muslim Jama‘at that has shown such kind of courage and steadfastness. We are thank- ful to the Ahmadi elders in all of these matters and pray that God Almighty may bless them with greater capacity to help their country, nation and religion.
Additionally, at that time the Chief of the armed forces of Pakistan praised Furqan Force in eloquent words and issued a certificate to the members of Furqan Battalion in which their contributions were acclaimed.

It is a long certificate; I will present a couple of its paragraphs to you:
...Your Battalion was composed entirely of volunteers who came from all walks of life [as I stated before all the volunteers were performing the military services at their own, nobody was on a payroll], young peasants, students, teachers, men in business; they were all embued with the spirit of service for Pakistan; you accepted no remuneration, and no publicity for the self sacrifice for which you all volunteered.
In Kashmir you were allotted an important sector, and very soon you justified the reliance placed on you and you nobly acquitted yourself in battle against Medals enemy ground and air attacks, without losing a single inch of ground....
(Certificate from General Commander in Chief, Pakistan Army, June 17, 1950)
That is the story of those whom the present government of Pakistan considers traitors of Pakistan and other Islamic countries. Show us—if you can—similar ‘traitors’ from among you!
There are many who think that we can exploit the intra-Islam conflicts as manifest in Pak. However, the purer-than-thou competition among Muslims always leads to competitively greater atrocities on non-Muslims even while they are engaged in a fight with other Muslims for hegemony. Whacking or torturing or raping the non-Muslim is just one more, and perhaps the most effective scoring point among Muslims for the leadership of the Ummah.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Prem »

brihaspati wrote:How many of us feel sorry for the Ahmadyias of Paki occupied western India?
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Ah ... ashmir.pdf
Entice ,capture ,assimilate and eliminate is in the interest of all the parties. .
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Prem »

I Think it belongs here..
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/india ... -exam.html
"Jihadi's [sic] chopped hands of Malayalam Professor - 'Crusaders' get the taste of 'Jihad'," from Haindava Keralam, July 4 (thanks to GS):
THODUPUZHA: Christians in Kerala now started getting the true taste of Jihad . Five Jihadi fanatics today chopped of the hands of Malayalam Professor.
A Malayalam professor T J Joseph of the Newman College, who is under suspension for preparing a defamatory question for an exam paper, was attacked by a gang of five men at Muvatupuzha when he was coming back from church.is crime - A question prepared by the professor for a Exam was offensive to Jihadis.
Government Action - Government who never misses a point to score when it comes to the matter of winning Jihadi hearts suspended the Professor.ihadi's who have scant regard to rule of the land decided to impose Sharia punishment to this professor. Professor Joseph and his family were attacked by Jihadi's today when he was coming back from Church after attending Sunday mass.Repeated warnings of Hindu organisations in Kerala about the growth of Jihadi fanatics in Kerala were repeatedly brushed aside by so called 'Secular Soceity' [sic] as the propaganda of Hindu Communalists
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

But the "crusaders" in India have not uttered anything against Jihadis in India. I have searched in vain. If anyone has any examples do put up.
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Re: obFuture Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

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^^^ Obviously, "pagans" are the bigger common enemy. So crusaders and jihadis will sing bhai-bhai onlee. Once Pagans are eliminated then they will redraw the battle lines. Once this battle is over, the new battle will be on more bious vs less bious (protestant vs catholic, shia vs sunni etc)
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Re: obFuture Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

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naren wrote:^^^ Obviously, "pagans" are the bigger common enemy. So crusaders and jihadis will sing bhai-bhai onlee. Once Pagans are eliminated then they will redraw the battle lines. Once this battle is over, the new battle will be on more bious vs less bious (protestant vs catholic, shia vs sunni etc)
Should we not offer them to have their own contest first and we will convert/join the victor depending upon the cost/benefit ? :idea:
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

brilliant idea. But we are not succeeding in starting the cockfight. It would have been great. Which tells me that both are instructed and controlled by a common source at least as far as India is concerned.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by svinayak »

brihaspati wrote:brilliant idea. But we are not succeeding in starting the cockfight. It would have been great. Which tells me that both are instructed and controlled by a common source at least as far as India is concerned.
India and Africa has the same source
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by naren »

brihaspati wrote:brilliant idea. But we are not succeeding in starting the cockfight. It would have been great. Which tells me that both are instructed and controlled by a common source at least as far as India is concerned.
That common source is ofcourse our sekoooolars. Who else will protect them from yeeevil kammunal yindutvavadis.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by RamaY »

^ They were talking about the real Mafia.

For that to happen two preconditions must satisfy
- A Indic/African representative who can make that offer; This is what I think was the logic behind EJ expeditions (and colonizations) to far west/east in middle ages to find willing/able partners to squeeze Islam from both sides.
- A clear road map on the action plan after achieving this goal.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

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They are unlikely to really seriously fight each other as long as they see that going after the "Hindu" to get converts is the easiest option, with protection for such activities being afforded virtually by the state. Only if the "Hindu" part gets solid and no chips can be chipped off, will they turn on each other.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Prem »

Media is the perfect tool to start such duel but Indians have lost control over such potent weapon. On the other hands Hindus should support building Churches in various oil droplets and help safguarding both the building and the missionaries. Simple law like onlee proslytizing can play counting match in each other's playground will go long way in esatblishing peace between these 2 True One God/s. Air drop law breaking Sunni Jihadis of Valley into Manipur and Nagaland and let missionaries convert them peacefully.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

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brihaspati wrote:They are unlikely to really seriously fight each other as long as they see that going after the "Hindu" to get converts is the easiest option, with protection for such activities being afforded virtually by the state. Only if the "Hindu" part gets solid and no chips can be chipped off, will they turn on each other.
That brings us to the question why is the "hindu" part not solid ?

New dimensions of secularism

The "representatives" of hindus dont understand the underlying psychological currents of the hindu psyche. They see pseudo-secularism, mistake it for secularism, and think secularism is totally irrelevant to Bharat. Secularism (separation of brahmin & kshatriya) & religious freedom have been part of the hindu society for, Allah knows how long. They try to sell "uniform civil code", without realizing that "uniform civil code" is totally against hindu sociology/philosophy.

Crusaders and Jihadis are a problem. In problem lies opportunity. India will lead the world. Vedas will once more rule the world. (ok, sounds a lot like jingo statements, i will elaborate later in harmonization thread). Our ancestors have already found the way. We just need to rediscover it. Survival of the fittest is not the solution. Thats what the other guys do. What we do is co-existence.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Maybe that co-existence bit is the source of the root problem. It fits perfectly with the needs of collaborators. Co-existence implies tolerance of everything and anything, even tolerance of those who do not believe in tolerance, or co-existence with those that do not believe in co-existence.

Let us not drag the Vedas here in this thread - since you are already developing the thesis in a dedicated thread. We are yet to go through that debate! :)
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

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:lol:

^ Thats what Asuras like Bhasmasura, Raktabeeja etc thought.

They would do great penance and seek rediculous boons. We all know how SD treated them :)
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Prem »

Co -existence or con-exit-stance ?
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

There is a theory that it was the Americans, especially the CIA and the US military who helped in the removal of the Shah and installation of Khomeini. It is possible that the old relation and battle with Khomeini is being played out by proxy again. There is a pattern here to how Karazai and the Talebs are being treated as.

Karazai is probably pre-empting the possibility of being made a repeat example of the Shah. The same behaviour may not work on Pak because Pak does not sit on tremendous earth bound resources as of now. However, is there a lesson to learn and use it for our advantage?
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

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Stratfor's latest bite : why is it so important to raise the importance of the "reds" when the "green" threat comes up?
A closer look at India's Naxalites
Also, the Indian military insists it is currently focused on fighting Islamist and separatist forces in Jammu and Kashmir in northwest India, along the disputed border with Pakistan, and is dealing with multiple ethno-separatist movements in the northeast region of India surrounded by China and Bangladesh. While Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has labeled the Naxalite issue the biggest threat to the country’s internal security, incidents like the 2008 Mumbai attacks provide evidence to most Indians that Pakistan and the militants who hide there pose a greater external threat.

In the end, Naxalism is fairly contained. Despite threats and indications from Naxalites that they will attack urban targets throughout India, the group has yet to demonstrate the intent or ability to strike outside of the Red Corridor. But the group’s leaders and bombmakers could develop such a capability, and it will be important to watch for any indication that cadres are developing the tradecraft for urban terrorism. Even if they do not expand their target set and conduct more “terrorist-type” attacks, the Naxalite challenge to the state could materialize in other ways. The Naxalite organization is a sophisticated one that relies not only on militant tactics but also on social unrest and political tactics to increase its power. Naxalites have formed sympathetic student groups in universities, and human-rights groups in New Delhi and other regional capitals are advocating for the local tribal cause in rural eastern India.

Instead of using violence, these groups stage protests to express their grievances against the state. And they underscore the Naxalite ability to use both militant violence and subtle social pressure to achieve their goals. Even if the government did decide to deploy the military to combat the Naxalites in eastern India, it would face a tough fight against a well-entrenched movement — something New Delhi is not likely to undertake lightly or any time soon.
There it is : not any time soon!
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by naren »

brihaspati wrote:why is it so important to raise the importance of the "reds" when the "green" threat comes up?
Because of "orange". :mrgreen:
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by darshhan »

Cover story on Open magazine's latest issue.According to this article India is poised on the brink of anarchy and would be ungovernable by 2025.The central and state govts power will wither away in absence of good governance and they will be substituted by Warlords and militias.

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ic-tsunami
The Kesroli Group is a modest-sized, close-knit think tank of top professionals from the world of business, finance, policy, public affairs, media and non-government organisations, comprising Indian citizens and those of Indian origin under the age of 50. In late 2009, key members initiated discussions on ongoing and impending situations with a view to generating awareness and solution-oriented discussion with what one member with extensive consulting experience termed “thought triggers”. The idea was that eventually these would contribute to policy and implementation that seek to make India a better place.

India’s Demographic Tsunami derives from that exercise. This section, titled ‘A Modified Internal Geography’, assumes all the ‘upside’ stories about India, from the growth of the economy and purchasing power to greater relevance in the global arena; these have generally tended to fuel exuberance and dampen realism to the point of delusion.

And so, this paper also assumes the ‘downside’, bad news that continues to escalate with the good, and the continuation of endemic corruption and official callousness that haven’t yet been dented by the gradual spread of instruments such as the Right to Information Act; and increasing political maturity of the electorate. Polity, government, administration and, to an extent, business, will for the sake of palatable expediency continue to ignore no-brainer solutions that have repeatedly, for decades, been suggested by some of the best minds from India and overseas.

Several of India’s hard-won gains locally and globally appear to be threatened in the near and medium-term future. It is becoming increasingly clear that, unless addressed quickly and emphatically, India’s inherent national crisis will witness greater churn in the next 25 years. There is reason to be concerned that this churn could, quite easily, extend to the next 50.

This churn will mainly be on account of population pressure; mismatch of aspiration and reality; and roots of conflict such as caste-related and tribal alienation. In the foreseeable future, India will also continue to have to deal with several violent reactions and movements that, like the present cycle of Maoist rebellion, will be rooted in issues of right to livelihood; defence of property; delivery of law and order; and justice. India’s embedded corruption will continue to exacerbate these lamentable deficiencies.

In addition, there is a high possibility of continuing identity-related conflict, especially in northeastern India. Several of these issues are likely to be influenced by external factors, such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, China, and in the foreseeable future, Nepal and Myanmar.

While in several instances these could be state-mandated—such as Pakistan, China and Bangladesh’s on-again, off-again policies of destabilising various aspects of India—there is the equally high possibility of change and churn in neighbouring countries directly affecting the internal dynamics of contiguous areas in present-day India. For instance, a breakdown in Nepal’s political and social fabric will directly affect the bordering present-day Indian states of Uttarakhand, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal. Or, a huge displacement of population in Bangladesh on account of a rise of sea levels or population will directly impact the neighbouring present-day Indian states of West Bengal, Assam, Meghalaya, Tripura, and Mizoram.

In both cases, there will be an export of people, politics and religious beliefs into areas of India already stretched due to their own resource pressures and deep feelings of an imminent takeover by ‘outsiders’ glaringly evident in the present day.

Even a medium intensity progression along these lines is likely to lead to conditions of implosion of the Indian State—in form and substance—as we know it today. While this has obvious ramifications for the state of the nation and India’s internal security horizon, India’s ‘health’ will continue to affect the country’s external behaviour, from diplomatic efforts to security initiatives and responses.

Such a crisis-ridden state, as outlined above, could be significantly closer than might appear. Consider the challenges.

How Will We Feed So Many People?

In 2020, just over a decade from now, India’s urban population will have gone up from around 23 per cent of the total at present to 40 per cent. In absolute numbers, this would mean a shoot up from 285 million to 540 million—an immense challenge, even with a rapidly growing economy. Alongside, while the proportion of rural population would lessen, it would still be in the region of 820 million. The same area, 350 million more people, and around the same number of new jobs to be created. As for feeding them: foodgrain production would have to increase to 260 million tonnes a year, up from the present 190-200 million tonnes, using roughly the same amount of arable land.

This is mild compared to the scenario closer to 2050. India’s foodgrain requirement would then be an estimated 400 million tonnes a year for a population in excess of 1.5 billion. According to an estimate, the ‘replacement level’ (a couple replaced by two children) should ideally have been reached by 2000. This ‘stabilisation’ of population is unlikely to be reached till the close of this century.

At current levels of incapable irrigation, uneven agricultural productivity, and increased rates of rural displacement on account of direct human intervention (watershed and water-table loss, deforestation), this could prove impossible. There will be no recourse but to import vast quantities of food, but what of the effect of people ‘on the move’ with nowhere to go but crushed urban and semi-urban zones? Human displacement will be on a scale bigger than anything seen thus far in India.

India would need to provide productive opportunities for nearly 600 million people who are now aged 30 or less, in an environment of shrinking agricultural activity, massive leakage of development funds in rural, semi-urban and urban areas, and continual overburdening of urban spaces.

In this situation, India will be further hampered by the official and policymaking tendency to play percentages and not absolute numbers:

The Numbers Are Scary

One per cent in India equals more than 10 million people—and will soon equal 15 million.

An estimated 50 million live in urban slums. This number will dramatically increase, through the creation of new slums.

Estimates of those displaced by projects since India’s Independence average 50 million. Of these, a majority have been resettled, but not rehabilitated. Ongoing displacement will get more acute.

India’s landless rural peasantry is estimated in the range of 18-20 million. This will increase with further fracturing of landholding, and destitution on account of non-family issues (indebtedness; crop failure; non-remunerative pricing; cheaper imports; rising input costs on account of ‘terminator’ seeds and chemical fertilisers.)

A 10,000-strong armed Maoist cadre may appear minuscule when dealt within the blinding framework of percentages, but it is prudent to remember that it took 19 people and a relatively small logistics team to bring down the World Trade Centre towers, among other attacks, and trigger the nearly decade-long ‘Global War Against Terror’.

In ‘urban’ and ‘industrial’ spaces, India will need to absorb a vast, continually increasing workforce. The incidence of physical emigration for work or change of residence will dramatically lessen as traditional overseas ‘buyers’ of manpower look to replace such human resources with their own. Outsourcing or back-office employment is finite.

India’s growth of population and construct of education combine to ensure a disturbing spillover of the unemployed and the unemployable: a population that is increasingly vulnerable to radicalisation—from religious to the ideological.

Together, these problems represent vast pools of negative energy in the country, and there is little doubt that these problems are worsening.

India’s Map Will Change

By whatever name, manifestations of this negative energy, extreme left-wing movements or otherwise, will increase. Urban areas will see the emergence of livelihood-related violence that is currently being leveraged in several Indian cities around issues of ethnic identity and religion.

Several Northeastern states are in a condition of violent flux. The question of Jammu & Kashmir is, of course, a vastly disquieting matter (along with global, radical Islamism).

Current policy initiatives are worrying, as these are not oriented towards solutions, but towards the maintenance of conflict at ‘acceptable levels’ as deemed by the State. Insurgency scenarios and counter-insurgency capabilities take precedence over addressing issues of administration, skill sets and education (positive/negative job creation); food security; addressing the dispossessed (destitute, abandoned, resentful); and issues of urbanisation and migration. All this is bound to have deep political and geographic implications.

The map of India will surely change. More states and autonomous regions are likely—some estimates suggest close to 50 states from the present 28 in a matter of years. Telengana, Bundelkhand, Vidarbha, Marathwada, Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh, Uttar Kannada, Dakshin Kannada, ‘Gorkhaland’, ‘Bodoland’, separation of the present Khasi and Garo Hills—are all likely units.

However, there is a limit to how much the drawing of lines and setting up of separate administrations can address inherent ills, as India’s present rot in politics and governance and great public apathy helps to perpetuate so many problems.

In extreme situations brought on by a combination of both internal and external factors, the de facto external boundaries of India too could change, in a replay of ‘Pakistan Occupied Kashmir’ and Aksai Chin. In this context, Northeastern India is particularly vulnerable.

A Modified Internal Geography

Extreme left-wing movements will spiral beyond present-day comprehension and reach, driven by increasing urbanisation in spaces around present-day metropolitan areas; continual pressure on rural and forested areas to cede space to extractive and related business (such as mining); increasing political, financial and development (health care, sanitation, education, job creation) focus by central and state governments on urban spaces that will lead to greater resentment in, and alienation of, rural spaces/ populations. The momentum for accountability will—as now—increase in urban spaces and reduce in rural spaces. The Right to Information and similar devices are and will largely remain urban phenomena.

The fabric will stretch, and could finally tear. Large areas of India will be reshaped along fault lines of internal conflict. The Indian polity will be radically altered. Left-wing, tribal and caste militias will control central, east, south-central, and west-central India. Driven by a chain of militia ‘conglomerates’ that will recruit from local and/or ‘victim’ populations, with leadership largely drawn from this pool, militias will form a bulwark against the Indian Union of City States.

City states already exist in all but name. Mumbai/Navi Mumbai; Delhi/New Delhi that would, in the foreseeable future, see an administration for the National Capital Region (NCR); Kolkata and Greater Kolkata; Chennai; Bengaluru; Hyderabad; and so on.

These metropolitan areas are already among the largest in the world. These will form security and trade corridor links with growing secondary hubs, and ultimately form a longer, secure chain that will run along northern and peninsular India’s extremities, approximating the present-day idea of the ‘Golden Quadrilateral’ system of expressways.

NCR will link northwards with Chandigarh and further on towards Jammu, which will form the northern bulwark of a re-ordered Indian state, with the loss of Kashmir Valley.

This corridor will travel southwest towards Jaipur to link with a hub in Ahmedabad and further, down towards Mumbai.

Mumbai will form the western hub along with an extension to Pune/Aurangabad, and form the link southward along the Konkan Coast with present-day Thiruvananthapuram (which will become part of the ocean-front city state of Kochi-Karwar).

A similar, south to east corridor will from here travel up to Chennai (then link with the inland hubs of Bengaluru and Hyderabad) as far as Vishakhapatnam; and then to the hinterland of Kolkata (Haldia) and finally to Kolkata. The intervening coastal space will be controlled by left-wing and tribal militias just short of the missile testing area of Chandipur on the southeastern edge of Orissa, which forms an important defence/ commercial zone along with Haldia. Militias will, however, control Orissa’s Paradip Port.

The north-to-east link will not be secure, as a severe breakdown of socio-economic and political cohesion, aided also by effects of the implosion of Nepal on account of a complete breakdown of the present-day political and economic process, will create vast null spaces devoid of ‘conventional’ administration. The region of the Gangetic plains will form a patchwork of rural and semi-urban communities that will be feudalistic in administration, collapsing into a ‘medieval’ format run by warlords or conglomerates of warlords.

The northern borderlands of this region will form alliances with the ‘Central’ Indian administration to oversee its ‘border defences’ by proxy. This will be to offset the southward push of displaced Nepali communities deeper into the Gangetic plains.

As the left-wing and tribal militia region will lie directly to the south of the Gangetic plains, the Government of India will have to deal with the possibility of warlords from the Gangetic plains entering into loose agreements with these militias to ensure flow of arms and ammunition and trade —including natural and chemical narcotics—and provide sanctuary for mutual benefit. These two groups will not impinge on the other’s territorial ambit after repeated failure of the Gangetic plains group/s to wrest control of central and eastern Indian mineral concentrations.

The United States of India

The concept of the ‘Centre’ of India will change. The Government of India will really be governing the United States of India, with a new Charter/ Constitution that provides for alliances with administrations of City States/ Hinterland Entities by agreement of their respective local representatives and referendum—unlike singular entities (as with the Subcontinent’s Partition exercise).

The ‘state’ or ‘province’ will merely be the hinterland to these cities, providing—with regional variations—food, industrial zones, trade parks, ports, airports, and defence hubs. Core areas of the City State will entirely be residential and service oriented. It will not be unusual for foreign governments or corporations to enter into separate diplomatic and business arrangements with preferred City States, after informing the ‘Central’ government.

The remainder of present-day Central, Centre-East, and Peninsular India will be outside the agglomeration of New States, dominated by several left-wing militias. Like the present-day Shan Region that forms the core of the so-called Golden Triangle of Myanmar, Laos and Thailand, the ‘Leaders’ or ‘Politburo’ of each region will hold sway over vast patches of territory.

This belt will comprise the present-day regions of Marathwada and Vidarbha in Mahrashtra; Chhattisgarh; Madhya Pradesh; Jharkhand; Orissa; and areas of West Bengal that have not been swamped by a population shift that moves steadily westward.



These pseudo-socialist zones will skirmish or maintain peace with the other, essentially to protect territories of agrarian activity, but overwhelmingly to control mineral resources and rivers/waterways in their territories. The Narmada river system; Mahanadi river system; and Godavari river system, for example, will be part of these zones.

The entity known as United States of India will enter into separate arrangements with the administrations of these militia-controlled regions for procuring primary materials and metals. Also, to ensure waterway flows, in exchange for major concessions—including maintenance of status quo until the ‘national’ entity feels suitably strengthened to begin to make forays to reclaim territory from warlords and militias.

This status quo, however, will remain in place for a considerable time. After a period of great churn leading to major dislocation of primary economic activity, there will be a balance imposed by realisation by ‘Indian’ authorities that, strategically, the requirement of troops and defensive/ offensive capability is more crucial along western, northern and eastern borders. Equally, that policing capabilities will be of critical value for maintaining control/ peace in the City States and Hinterlands. Safe-Passage Agreements for goods/ produce with warlord- and militia-controlled areas will, therefore, be of realpolitik value.

A further play of reality will come to emerge on account of protecting business and industry. There will be vast paramilitary commitment to protect business enclaves (including Economic Zones); factory sites; power plants; dams and waterways; highways and subsidiary roads. Urban policing will be more ‘militarised, with forces trained in urban warfare. The penal system will be among the first ‘infrastructure’ spaces to be upgraded. This is a natural progression in spaces that will have among the densest and most inequitable conditions on the planet.

There will be a growing incidence of urban and industrial areas controlled entirely by business in nominal partnership with administrators—a more concretised version of, for example, the system in Jamshedpur, which is run by the Jamshedpur Notified Area Committee, on which executives of the Tata Group and its nominees have representation, as does the Government of Jharkhand. (In this scenario, Jamshedpur will be over-run. The Tata Group and other businesses will have to sue for peace with militias.)

This realisation will be arrived at after a series of developments in relatively rapid succession in a matter of 5-15 years: a massive tribal uprising along central, eastern and southern areas as a reaction to large infusion of troops by India to protect mineral and related production areas. This will be managed by successors of present-day Maoists and newer left-wing militias that will ride on spontaneous outbursts and procurement of arms. After cities like Raipur, Jamshedpur and Nagpur are over-run by these militias, there will be strong public and business demands in other parts of India to impeach the administration of the day in New Delhi and demand a rethink of the Constitution, and insist on a new Charter of Unity.

A Proxy War with China

By this time, West Bengal would be under severe pressure to staunch the inward migration from Bangladesh; and Nepal would have imploded, leading to a proxy war there between China and India. Proxy wars would also have erupted between the two countries of Bhutan and Sikkim, leading to the increasing vulnerability of the so-called Chicken’s Neck region in West Bengal—for long the post-Partition gateway for India to its northeastern region, and the corridor to enable force projection against China in the eastern sector.

Waterway and roadway treaties signed with Bangladesh would have long-collapsed on account of turmoil in that country, leading to a squeeze in transit of goods and people from ‘Mainland’ India to Northeastern India.

This will lead the Northeast to effectively become another area of proxy war between China and India. While China will retain the advantage of a superior logistics position, India will attempt to use a counter-faction in Myanmar to supply proxy wars from western and southwestern Myanmar to retain control of the various tribal homelands in the present-day Northeast. Global opinion will ensure the conflict remains a non-nuclear one, bolstered by the heightened presence of Nato and Asean navies, air defence forces and troops in the Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean area.

As a concurrent development, there will be a move towards greater ‘nationalism’ and an accompanying consolidation of right-of-centre ideologies and politics—though not necessarily through present-day political approaches.

The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in its current form would lose meaning. The Congress would move closer to the right in its actions. The driving force of this shift will be a sense of survival—an ‘Indian-ness’ that has organically evolved since Partition in vast areas of the Republic of India, even as this sentiment/reality has fallen woefully short in other areas.
How can we prevent this scenario from happening?What kind of changes we have to undertake as far as political and administrative setup is concerned in order to ensure that Indian nation remains viable ?
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by svinayak »

darshhan wrote:Cover story on Open magazine's latest issue.According to this article India is poised on the brink of anarchy and would be ungovernable by 2025.The central and state govts power will wither away in absence of good governance and they will be substituted by Warlords and militias.

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ic-tsunami
The Kesroli Group is a modest-sized, close-knit think tank of top professionals from the world of business, finance, policy, public affairs, media and non-government organisations, comprising Indian citizens and those of Indian origin under the age of 50. In late 2009, key members initiated discussions on ongoing and impending situations with a view to generating awareness and solution-oriented discussion with what one member with extensive consulting experience termed “thought triggers”. The idea was that eventually these would contribute to policy and implementation that seek to make India a better place.
All these people should talk to Dr Subramaniam Swamy. Many people predicted the same in 1960s
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Actually, such a scenario will be good for the health of the nation as a whole. The units described will be largely unsustainable. The very reason the river systems always coalesced into larger empires. Moreover, the extent of a nation depends on the existing speed with which information and personnel can pass from one point to another. The need for mutual exploitability will after a time force a convergence of business-political interests to support centralization and will look for a suitable ideology to justify this.

Now the game between ideologues and business-political interests is always an interesting but predictable one. Ideologues stew in the unknown and in neglect until the time point where their memes turn out to be the most effective excuses for what is required on the buisness-political front. In the process of adoption, both sides bargain hard, and the result is an outcome which neither party really expected initially. [MKG-industrialists-politicos]

Long before the scenario as spelt out above starts showing, this centralization with a veering towards authoritarianism will take place. There will be no other way, if democracy allows further spinning out of control by centrifugal forces. I think people here would be surprised how quickly public mood will change towards acceptance of centralization and authoritarianism. But the tricky part will be that the "military-industrial" complex in India will have to put up a sacrificial lamb for this - needing to pass the blame and the guilt on some political front, and justify the change and the "pain". It is not the "orange" who is in line for the sacrifice.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Both Iran and PRC have suddenly showed an apparent interest in taking their relationship with India "forward". Some have seen in this a certain tacit recognition of India's potential spolier role in ME, and are already hoping that this may lead to a new framework of power in Asia where PRC, Iran and India are equal partners with a common or shared interest.

It can be so. On the other hand it can be part of a more elaborate deception to soften up Indian alertness towards PRC's continued and increasing nuclear cooperation with Pak. PRC will have links to Iran and mutual coordination between them cannot be entirely ruled out. Iran, I have always maintained, will have interests in AFG and will not be above providing the Talebs over and above the Shia-Sunni divide. It will be part of a larger struggle to bring more of the Ummah within Iranian sphere as against KSA.

There are reasons to be concerned because such overtures are coming when the J&K issue is being put more on the burner, and pressures to have the Pak-EU touted solutions accepted will mount.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Pratyush »

brihaspati wrote:Actually, such a scenario will be good for the health of the nation as a whole. The units described will be largely unsustainable. The very reason the river systems always coalesced into larger empires. Moreover, the extent of a nation depends on the existing speed with which information and personnel can pass from one point to another. The need for mutual exploitability will after a time force a convergence of business-political interests to support centralization and will look for a suitable ideology to justify this.

Now the game between ideologues and business-political interests is always an interesting but predictable one. Ideologues stew in the unknown and in neglect until the time point where their memes turn out to be the most effective excuses for what is required on the buisness-political front. In the process of adoption, both sides bargain hard, and the result is an outcome which neither party really expected initially. [MKG-industrialists-politicos]

Long before the scenario as spelt out above starts showing, this centralization with a veering towards authoritarianism will take place. There will be no other way, if democracy allows further spinning out of control by centrifugal forces. I think people here would be surprised how quickly public mood will change towards acceptance of centralization and authoritarianism. But the tricky part will be that the "military-industrial" complex in India will have to put up a sacrificial lamb for this - needing to pass the blame and the guilt on some political front, and justify the change and the "pain". It is not the "orange" who is in line for the sacrifice.

B, that presupposes that the people of India will not have been politially so divided and polarised that they will automatically demand a strong center. All indiaations are such that the various politicions are already fueling sentiment in diffrent parts of teh country for exclusive rights for some or the other etheni and lingustic group. If the trends continue is the case then the centralisation that you are recomending and proposing may not take place.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Pratyush »

brihaspati wrote:Both Iran and PRC have suddenly showed an apparent interest in taking their relationship with India "forward". Some have seen in this a certain tacit recognition of India's potential spolier role in ME, and are already hoping that this may lead to a new framework of power in Asia where PRC, Iran and India are equal partners with a common or shared interest.

It can be so. On the other hand it can be part of a more elaborate deception to soften up Indian alertness towards PRC's continued and increasing nuclear cooperation with Pak. PRC will have links to Iran and mutual coordination between them cannot be entirely ruled out. Iran, I have always maintained, will have interests in AFG and will not be above providing the Talebs over and above the Shia-Sunni divide. It will be part of a larger struggle to bring more of the Ummah within Iranian sphere as against KSA.

There are reasons to be concerned because such overtures are coming when the J&K issue is being put more on the burner, and pressures to have the Pak-EU touted solutions accepted will mount.

India, if it plays a hard nosed game then it stands to gain a great dael in the proposed new relatioship with both Iran and PRC.

At this time I believe that Iran Needs India as much as India needs Iran if not more so. having said so working with the iranians will be beneficial to us if the Indain Endgame is well thought of and is followed to the logical conlusion.

WRT PRC, The old saying is trust but verify. No harm in engaging them on issues of common interets. Having said so TSP cannot EVER be a commont interest between India and PRC. So the overture from PRC on TSP should be politely be given a cold shoulder from us. As it wasn't too long ago when TSP gave a blank cheque to PRC in its dealing with India.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Pratyush wrote

B, that presupposes that the people of India will not have been politially so divided and polarised that they will automatically demand a strong center. All indiaations are such that the various politicions are already fueling sentiment in diffrent parts of teh country for exclusive rights for some or the other etheni and lingustic group. If the trends continue is the case then the centralisation that you are recomending and proposing may not take place.
If you look at the historical pattern, and which remains valid even now is that of course the regions will try to push for regional autonomy. In order to do this they will have to heighten differences and create divisions where they did not exist. This is as much a deviation from inherent equilibrium as much as over centralization is. So in pushing this deviation away from the balance of interdependences, the regional elite ultimately land up the region into independent but weakened and unsustainable entities. Over time other factions of the regional elite or new elite rising from the weakening of the older elite in the regional domain will see the advantages in reviving the centralizing memes to make their power base viable.

This is why regional power based revival attempts always used trans-Indian memes as the driving mode for their own drive towards power. Think Shivaji or Hukka-Bukka. It is a testament to the need for all of India to be together in it for making the collective viable.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Pratyush »

I agree with the gist of what you are suggesting but in the context ot the Open mag article. The time lines are quite uncrtain. The historial trend as well explained by you will take about 50 to 75 years to complete (the strenghtening of regional powers and their consequent re- asimilation in the main stream ). If one accepts the time line of the article then by 2025 the nation starts fragmenting, and the revival can start taking place by 2075 to 2100.

Is my understaning of what you are saying correct.

If my understanding of what you are writing is correct, then what you suggest will happen to TSP & Bangladeshas as they are also parts of the Indian whole and have been away from the core and center for the past almost 60 years. Will they be reassimilated / pulled back to the Indic core.
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Post by brihaspati »

Pratyush wrote
I agree with the gist of what you are suggesting but in the context ot the Open mag article. The time lines are quite uncrtain. The historial trend as well explained by you will take about 50 to 75 years to complete (the strenghtening of regional powers and their consequent re- asimilation in the main stream ). If one accepts the time line of the article then by 2025 the nation starts fragmenting, and the revival can start taking place by 2075 to 2100.
Typically, making quantitative time line assessments is a difficult task, and if I cross-question the author of the Open mag article, they will be hard put to justify the exact time estimates. This is a very little developed branch of quantitative analysis of political trends and a lot depends on arbitrary imputations or guesses in numerical weights based on interviews etc.

I have found that empirically a 30 year cycle appears to be relevant for the Indian subcontinent, which could be linked to life-span and activity level aspects [am aware of astro angle, but not discussing it here]. The first effects of a generational change appears when the cohort has reached 30, and its dominance is felt in current policies when they reach 60. Most profound and drastic political transitions take place when a "radical" generation reaches a 2/3 majority in the population, which roughly coincides with the age-group 50-70. I am here considering not actual proportion in the population but the result and influence of their continuous activsim and ideological battle over the rest of society.

These considerations led me earlier on this forum to project a transitional period from 2007-2037 for India, with the most drastic changes projected around the latter part around 2035-2040. Regarding fragmentation patterns, I will look into it, but this does not seem likely within the next 15 years.
Is my understaning of what you are saying correct.
If my understanding of what you are writing is correct, then what you suggest will happen to TSP & Bangladeshas as they are also parts of the Indian whole and have been away from the core and center for the past almost 60 years. Will they be reassimilated / pulled back to the Indic core.
I am quite positive that in the long run these areas cannot survive on their own, unless they innovate with such fantastic technological advances that they can trade for food needed to support their already unsustainable population sizes. As early as 1943, Bengal had turned from a grain-surplus to dependence on import state for even its staple. A detailed study of the "famine" shows that it was the dependence on imports, particularly from Burma, that started off the whole thing compounded by the seizure of all river transport for military reasons. The situation with Pak is not that clear, but almost none of the stats given are reliable and a lot of food aid and other aid converted into food flows into Pak.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Prem »

They say British can see 10 years in future, Chinese 7 and Persian 5 and Indians like Hanuman need constant reminder of their strength. IMHO, we will see sea change in attitude toward Indics starting 2017. There few landmarks we need to cross in next few years.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by Pratyush »

brihaspati
I am quite positive that in the long run these areas cannot survive on their own, unless they innovate with such fantastic technological advances that they can trade for food needed to support their already unsustainable population sizes. As early as 1943, Bengal had turned from a grain-surplus to dependence on import state for even its staple. A detailed study of the "famine" shows that it was the dependence on imports, particularly from Burma, that started off the whole thing compounded by the seizure of all river transport for military reasons. The situation with Pak is not that clear, but almost none of the stats given are reliable and a lot of food aid and other aid converted into food flows into Pak.


If thats the case then what is the effect of foreign aid on the longevity of such entities. Because what you have written, is not taking into consideration the geopolitical realities of the Sub-continent. (If I have read you correctly again).

Cause what I am looking at is a definet enhancement of the staying power due of these states as a result of external resource infusion. Will this infusion be enough to sustain and enable these states to endure over the long run
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Except PRC, not many on the horizon to really donate and keep on donating in BD and Pak. They also need returns, and the internal dynamic of PRC will change too. They may not be in a position to invest without returns for a very long time, say even on 20-30 year level.
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Post by Pratyush »

That makes sence.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

BD may actually show some returns : one of its natural "resources" is jute, which may become increasingly commercially important. BD population wise perhaps also shares in a community "pool" of expertise in technological or higher educational innovation with their cousins across the border in WB. But this goes borderline eugenics and community==ability theories. However, in reality, BD has shown appearance of ITvity talent etc. Its gas fields may not be a huge prospect fro the future. But the real burden is shortage of arable land, effects of climate change, lack of energy resources, and persistent underlying Islamism together with population growth that shows no signs of being controlled. It is difficult to avoid seeing a conflict of food versus population problem. What can China get out of BD in return for investments? A diversified productivity portfolio for BD is yet to appear competitive. And where PRC's own products are not going to affect competitively in gaining profits from the global market?

Pak is of course a pure donation case, with its Islamism bound to destroy the knowledge infrastructure to recover. PRC investments can only be in any mineral or earth resources and not really in any human capital.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by AKalam »

Hello brihaspatiji and hello to everyone as well,

I am back to share some ideas. Lately I have been studying and developing some thoughts on EU type regional integration for various regions around the world. If it is not off topic, I will go into details. I am also planning to open a forum for discussion for these existing, nascent and future regional blocks.

As a food for thought, here is an interesting book:


War in Human Civilization: Azar Gat
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Post by brihaspati »

akalam bhai,
welcome back! really pleased to have you back again! would be keen to get some thoughts on BD happenings. Don't be affected by any "negative" perspectives you may find in my posts about BD, as well as "Islamism". :P I would like to get a "BD" critique of what I have posted, with some insight into current balance of forces. Feel free!
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by satyam »

May be because there is no central leadership in hinduism. It is like a team without captain . So someone has to take the role of leadership in hinduism . Only then we will see more effective co-ordination between different members.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by AKalam »

Brihaspatiji,

Thanks for the welcome. I am not very current on details of BD happenings, as I have not lived there for more than a decade. So my views and opinions are more representative of expat BDeshi's, I guess. Hopefully that counts for something as a BD perspective. Its also possible that my POV is uniquely my own and have not much in common with fellow BDeshi's.

But from my experience in BD, and BD experience in sub-continent, I tried to generalize these problems and see how they are relevant to other parts of the world and come up with a more general global solution to these regional problems. I think it is relevant to the discussion in this thread, so I will proceed to give a full account of my thoughts in many posts. If you or others feel it is off topic, or more appropriate for another thread, please let me know.

Kinship and blood relationship was a decisive factor in determining us and them in times of conflict and war, which probably started from early hominid social groups, extended to "regional groups" of human hunter gathering groups and then extended itself to ethno-linguistic groups and civilizations in later age of agriculture and animal husbandry or the current age of empires, which has morphed into recent Westphalian nation states via monarchical kingdoms of middle ages, for some regions, while colonization and decolonization also played major roles in other regions for state formations.

The evolutionary basis of the importance of kinship in the all important drive for gene propagation and the resultant drive to control resources to ensure this propagation, seems to be at the root of conflict and war in and among human civilizations.

So, it is a short step to deduce then, that an ethnic group, that perceive themselves to be blood kins, will naturally band together to fight against any perceived external aggression and hence my prediction that the world may divide into 14 regional groups, where each regional group has some common shared history, kinship of blood, linguistic closeness etc., and thus most people belong to one or more related ethnic groups within that regional group.

1. US+Canada (English speaking majority of mostly European and with some of Mestizo and African origin)
2. Unasur+Mexico (Spanish/Portuguese speaking Mestizo majority, but includes all countries in South and Central America including the Caribbean, Latin American Union)
3. EU (a common emerging multi-lingual European identity, which may eventually include Russia)
4. Arab League (Arabic speaking Arab linked ethnic majority) + Turkey (if it cannot gain access to EU, obviously EU is a better option for Turkey, another alternative for Turkey is to be with CAU, if it can resolve its difference with Armenia and also take Azerbaijan along with it for this journey and thus connect with CAU over Caspian Sea)
5. Sub Saharan African Union (Black African ethnic majority of various tribes from different regions of Sub Saharan Africa)
6. Russian Federation (Russian + kavkaz + Eastern Asian = Eurasian identity, Russian speaking, but of several major ethnic groups, with Russian ethnicity being the dominant majority group)
7. Central Asian Union + Mongolia (Russianized nomadic societies in the North, such as Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Turkmen and Mongol and sedentary societies such as Uzbek and Tajik in the South, and a remote possibility of including Turkey and Azerbaijan)
8. China(PRC) + Taiwan (Han Chinese majority)
9. ASEAN (Multiethnic, but mostly influenced and linked to Southern Chinese migration intermingled with indigenous Australoid aboriginal groups)
10. SAARC (ethnic Sub-continental Hindu super majority and Sub-conitinental Muslims as 2nd semi-majority, with significant Buddhists such as in Sri Lanka, NE India and Myanmar if it joins this group in the future)
11. Oceania (Australia+New Zealand+PNG) (extension of British identity)
12. Japan (indigenous undisturbed Japanese national identity evolved over several millennium with some early infusion from North East Asian mainland)
13. Korea (North + South) (a homogeneous Korean identity developed since the three kingdom period)
14. Iran (possibly + Afghanistan + Tajikistan, but unlikely and may be Azerbaijan?) (carrier of an ancient culture and traditions since the days of Achemenids, as well as that of more recent Shia Islam, and this last one if it continues to be important, obviously will negate the inclusion of most Afghans and Tajiks)

One must consider that forming of regional groups will provide for better tools of conflict management within that regional group. The problems that can be addressed better include the inter-nation-state problems we see today in many parts of the world, such as Pakistan-India, the two Koreas, Taiwan-PRC, Somalia-Ethiopia-Eritrea etc. as well as intra-state problems such as Kashmir, Xiinjiang, Tibet, Darfur, Oromo, Mindanao, Southern Thailand just to name a few.

The flip side danger is that there will be conflict between these larger regional groups in competition to control ever more resources needed for their own gene propagation and survival. I think the regional groups will emerge by default, as people will find over time that this is the easiest way to maximize their respective power in the global scene. The challenge is to find ways to reduce and minimize the risk of armed conflict and violence and find ways to manage these inter-regional conflicts without resorting to violence. Unfortunately a new arms race will happen between the regional groups and I see no practical way to prevent this from happening as competition for resources intensify. New alliances will be made and broken along this way. But arms race may not be a bad thing, after all it is the deterrence of Mutually Assured Destruction that seems to work to keep us from becoming trigger happy, so that will be our unfortunate predicament in the future. A heavily armed world, with Nukes pointing in all directions. Non-proliferation will be gone with the wind, once each regional block decides to protect its own turf against any hostile neighbor or enemy from afar.

I should note that, once the regional groups are well consolidated, then there will no longer be any room for the asymmetric warfare AKA "terrorism", as there will be no such free space of failed states that will allow the growth of such developments.

About US role in Afghanistan:

About the current policy wrangling that is going on regarding Afghanistan, Pakistan and India on what should be India's role in Afghanistan and how Pakistan can be more accommodating to US goals of reigning in the Taliban and assorted other extremists, here are some words from the perspective of my hypothesis concerning regional integration:

- SAARC union is a tool that has been under utilized, the US would be well advised to use this as a tool for stabilization of this region
- an EU type integration is one of the few ways to reduce Chinese influence and resolve differences and hostility between India and Pakistan
- Myanmar's inclusion as the ninth member country should be welcomed and encouraged and it should be the last country to be admitted in this Union
- a SAARC stabilization scheme such as training of Afghan troops by Armed force personnel of other SAARC countries can be much cheaper than US training on the ground
- a SAARC force comprising mostly Muslims from other SAARC countries could be much more effective in stabilizing Afghanistan than current NATO/US force, who are seen as occupiers and who frequently kill civilians without much thought, something they would never do in another "white" country. For humanity, one race cannot police another race yet, human minds have not reached that stage of race neutrality IMHO
- Pakistan itself is destabilized due to pursuing wrong strategy and national goals (another story in itself), it cannot help stabilize Afghanistan, the treatment it needs is to make it free from the Chinese sphere of influence and bring it back to regional focus and repair its relations with India
- Arab extremists need to be kicked out from Afghanistan and Pakistan, their toxic presence must be cleansed through a determined propaganda against them

Again, like many other regions, the people, human and other resources are all present within the region to solve its problems, if the US/EU/Japan and other powerful countries or regions think that it is important to stabilize Afghanistan and Pakistan then the focus should be on the region as a whole. China is an outsider to this region and has been working diligently to create division among SAARC member countries so that the region does not integrate. It also wants to become a SAARC member with its pawn Pakistan's support with the same goal of preventing SAARC integration.

Who knows, if the effort is successful, it can work as a balance against China's rise, so two goals could be met from the same initiative and strategy.

On East Asian Security:

US bases in Japan under UN and Japan treaty and their closure after a peace treaty between North and South Korea would definitely be a welcome development for Japanese local people near the bases, who are always protesting the presence of these bases, it seems.

There is significant political forces both for and against US presence in South Korea and Japan, but lately the wind is shifting towards reduction if not a total removal of all US presence, despite concerns from a rising and threatening China right next door. The idea is to be self sufficient on their own on defense, I think, but this naturally means a much more beefed up military for both South Korea and Japan and possible introduction of Nuclear arms in these two countries.

Once the US reduces its presence in the region, it also means, that their will be effort by both Japan and South Korea, as well as ASEAN to join in a collective effort against any possible Chinese threat, and possibly put more effort in developing South Asia as a counter weight to China, which has the population, but lacks the unified nation-state structure of China. A tight SAARC union in the far future may balance China in the long term, but its very very premature which will remain not so relevant for several decades at least. Chinese policy makers I believe are keenly aware of this possibility and are actively engaged to ensure that a tight SAARC union does not take place.

These I believe are the major dynamics in Asian geo-politics. The role of Russia as an Asian power is mostly limited to its ability to supply energy, Siberian farm land and advanced military technology. Central Asia with its sparse population is important as a source of energy and minerals and not much more.

China has a population of 1.3 billion, but Asia in its surrounding nations has a population that far exceeds Chinese population. How they react in response to an overbearing and bungling China will be interesting to watch, not forgetting that US/EU/Oceania are always waiting to poke their nose where ever the opportunity presents itself.

Hope my ideas are not too simplistic, your comments please.
brihaspati
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by brihaspati »

Just firing off on my first glance : I will go in for more details later.

SAARC in AFG is an interesting angle. It is immediately obvious what the advantages are going to be. When I had thought of this about a year ago, and when I probed among "usual suspects" whom I use as an interface to sound out policy signals - both "them" and I concurred almost immediately, that the opposition will rise on the point of reliability of "SAARC" Muslim forces. The reason : past experience of radicalization in contact with the AFG radicals and Talebs. Apparently even the various SAARC govs are rather shaky about the idea.

Akalam bhai, can you give some counter arguments to be of use or that we missed?
AKalam
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Post by AKalam »

I am not sure how Subcontinental soldiers were radicalized earlier with contact from Afghan Taliban, please elaborate.

Radicalization is a worry, but usually it is impressionable youth that get easily radicalized, older professional soldiers may not get influenced easily, so choosing older soldiers may help, also soldiers who never spent any significant time in Arab countries could help. Arabs seem to be at the root of this problem of extremism, from funding source to being the source of deviant neo-Islamism of Egyptian brotherhood or intolerance and literalism of Saudi Wahabis, although Pakistani Madrassas probably carried out the field implementation as foot soldiers, under Arab/ISI/CIA payroll, teaching Afghan kids from refugee camps.

Participation of a SAARC regional force for Afghanistan stabilization, replacing the current NATO-led force, could only happen, if US/EU has a change of strategy for this region. The current strategy IMHO is not sustainable, the question I think is when they will decide that they have spent enough money and Western-blood (determined largely by domestic politics in the US), can no longer afford to pursue a flawed strategy and thus look for an alternate solution, one of which is to try to make India and Pakistan into team players in solving a SAARC regional problem and include other SAARC countries in the team as well, to make it a truly regional effort.

I think the details and procedural problems can be worked out, once US/EU (NATO) change their mind and then start working towards a SAARC regional solution, of course with agreement from India, Pakistan and other countries.
Last edited by AKalam on 17 Jul 2010 11:20, edited 1 time in total.
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