J & K news and discussion

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 09 Jul 2010 19:47

ajit_tr wrote:Even if above conversation is publicized in valley what stops people in valley claiming that the tapes were doctored just like 1989 rigged elections in valley.

There was nothing that stopped Zion Hamid from claiming that Kasab's real name was Amar Singh.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 09 Jul 2010 20:41

Pranav wrote:
ajit_tr wrote:Even if above conversation is publicized in valley what stops people in valley claiming that the tapes were doctored just like 1989 rigged elections in valley.
There was nothing that stopped Zion Hamid from claiming that Kasab's real name was Amar Singh.

But isn't it true that majority in pak believe Zion Hamid theories?So the real question still remains--How to win Zion Hamid types' propaganda war???

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Jul 2010 20:43

ajit_tr wrote: Even if above conversation is publicized in valley what stops people in valley claiming that the tapes were doctored just like 1989 rigged elections in valley.

Nothing will convince the valley bigots and their Paki cousins like you. Only a kick on the rear end will.

But when it comes to J&K or anything TSP-related; , India is up against several forces: 1) TSP, 2) US-led west, and most importantly, 3) TSP's 5th column in India and that includes those stone pelting louts in the valley and their Hurriyat leadership, many in the media like Bakara, Noorani, the list is endless. Thus, the above conversation needs to be publiczied at least to neutralize this 5th column. But I admit, even if this is accomplished, India would have won only 1/3 of the battle.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Jul 2010 20:44

Geelani is a useful idiot, and has to be kept alive and out of jail.

He or the Jihadis might get ideas of his martyrdom if he is arrested and in custody.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 09 Jul 2010 20:52

ajit_tr wrote:But isn't it true that majority in pak believe Zion Hamid theories?So the real question still remains--How to win Zion Hamid types' propaganda war???

People in pak have a psychological need to convince themselves of Zion Hamid theories, otherwise they will have to face the fact that their nation is a misbegotten nightmare.

Ultimately falsehood will collapse on its own. We just need to avoid giving it any legitimacy or respectability.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Jul 2010 21:16

ajit_tr wrote:But isn't it true that majority in pak believe Zion Hamid theories?So the real question still remains--How to win Zion Hamid types' propaganda war???

Everything will be taken care of when the truth comes out, like it happened whey they found Hamid-mia is a infidel. Same fate awaits all others

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Jul 2010 21:50

="Dipanker"]I wonder how widely the following piece of conversation is being publicized in the valley? The govt. needs to keep playing this over and over till every kashmiri hears this.[

No Co-Incident , da DAWn of Porkland was already screeming about 15 receiving 72s. Must have been pre written.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Jul 2010 22:02

Prem wrote:
="Dipanker"]I wonder how widely the following piece of conversation is being publicized in the valley? The govt. needs to keep playing this over and over till every kashmiri hears this.[
No Co-Incident , da DAWn of Porkland was already screeming about 15 receiving 72s. Must have been pre written.

Dawn wrote:Indian police and paramilitary forces, who have been struggling to control the wave of protests in the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, have been accused of killing 15 civilians in less than a month.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2010 22:24

Not to mention he is "Man from uncle" in Kashmir!

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Jul 2010 01:48

ramana wrote:Not to mention he is "Man from uncle" in Kashmir!

That would be Mirwaiz, no?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Jul 2010 05:17

Bakara doing her loyal job as spokeswoman for the stone pelting Kashmiri Muslims. Some choice quotes:

Pragmatists on both side of the border are aware that the broad framework for any such resolution would be the old staples — greater autonomy; soft borders and eventual demilitarisation.

In other words, if terrorists hadn’t declared war against India with the Mumbai attacks, ‘resolving’ Kashmir suddenly seemed possible in our lifetime.

Spoken like a typical ISI mouthpiece. "Terrroists" were not official Paki-sponsored, they just landed from Mars to spoil th bonhomie between India & TSP.

The home minister has gone on record to argue that in some separatist pockets it is the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba that has stoked the flames. And while, as recently released phone intercepts show, at least some of the violence may be deliberate and fuelled by external groups, it is equally true that popular anger on the ground cannot be wished away.

Its all India's fault because India did not pander to the popular anger on the ground by giving them what they want. And we all know what they want.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Jul 2010 07:55

CRamS wrote: Its all India's fault because India did not pander to the popular anger on the ground by giving them what they want. And we all know what they want.

By "popular" anger what is meant is the rage of the belligerent minority.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jul 2010 09:11

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/33941/mili ... agers.html
Purifying efforts, Police says theese Most pure ones beating less pures one was encountered successfuly.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Jul 2010 11:24

What popular anger-shanger ji?
Aren't the people of the rest of India without any problems of their own, and do they come out on the streets and start pelting stones?

I say that the people of J&K have the same set of problems as the people of the rest of the country. But you don't see people of laddakh or jammu even not to speak of the rest of the country coming out and pelting stones.

Whenever this happens you can be 100% sure that this has some politicians and their goons behind this. Talk to a local kashmiri, and they just want all this nonsense to end, and to live their lives in peace. The average kashmiri's main concerns are security, jobs, healthcare, kids education, corruption etc, and add to that problems because of the terrorism and militancy in the valley. The people of the valley understand this fact very well that a seperate nation to themselves is no solution. It doesn't solve the problems for the common man, the only beneficiaries are the ones doing all the halla-gulla on the streets and their masters. If seperate nationhood could solve problems, then Pakistan and Bangladesh would have been Japan and South Korea (At least the bangladeshis are trying as best as they can - the pakistanis are on a rampage inside their own land, looting every thing in sight).

The only solution to the kashmir problem with pakistan is to ride out such storm-in-the-teacups that the ISI engineers from time to time, in the future release more telephone intercepts to the public, and in general manage the situation as and when it arises.

The most important thing that must be borne in mind is to give the ordinary kashmiris as best a quality of life as they can, through these troubles. As it is the ordinary people have suffered a lot.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Jul 2010 12:31

^^^
Replace Kashmir in above post with Pakistan and most WKKs will agree to all points.

Kashmir has been the most pampered place in India for years. What's stopping these ordinary Kashmiri Muslims from joining the mainstream like everybody else except for the reason that they are too bigoted and brainwashed to think logically.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Jul 2010 12:56

Solution to J&K problem is rather simple. Allow people to purchase land and get all rights after some years of domicile. People who intermarry , allow the all rights, as applicable in other parts of India. Extend all laws in normal course, rather than by specific order. And allow army to resettle XSM in the valley in large enough numbers. Follow China in this respect. Zehadi types can be controlled only by placing more non zehadi type in the valley. The talk of Kashimiriyat is bullshit. People forget that it was once a Hindu country and mostly they are converts under duress. and lastly, send article 370 to meet its 72.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jul 2010 13:22

Kashmir crisis: case against TV channel

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article509448.ece

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jul 2010 13:23

Pandits criticise J&K govt. for not being invited to all party meet

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article509451.ece

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Jul 2010 13:33

5-6 years back I had read that J&K accounted for 9 times the budget of Bihar and about 5 times that of Tamil Nadu in a newspaper editorial. Those were the days when there was a massive corruption unearthed by the CBI in the construction of the road around the Dal Lake.
Someone had quipped that for the money allegedly spent on that road, which was in tatters, one could have coated that road with gold foil!
Article 356 needs to go. But that move will cause so much trouble by other political parties in the kashmir valley that no political party is willing to go ahead with it. It will transform J&K, because it will bring in private capital instead of / in addition to sarkari capital. There is going to be no consensus on this issue because politicians being politicians, surely there will be many who will hop onto the "Kashmir has been sold off" bandwagon.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 10 Jul 2010 16:18

one of the huge haul in recent years.

LeT hideout busted, biggest ever explosives haul

Security forces on Friday recovered a huge dump of explosives weighing 176 kgs from a Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) hideout unearthed in Kishtwar district of Jammu and Kashmir.

This is the biggest cache of explosives recovered in the state this year, an army officer said.

Acting on a tip-off, troops of 11 Rashtriya Rifles and Special Task Force launched a search operation in Chatroo in Kishtwar district and busted the LeT hideout, he said.

The troops recovered 176 kgs of explosives from there, which included 75 kgs of explosive material packed in two bags, six IEDs weighing 15 kgs each (90 kgs of explosives), 75 gelatin sticks, 23 grenades, 12 bore rifles and various other materials, the officer said.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jul 2010 16:24

>> Article 356 needs to go.

you mean article 370. 356 (and 365) are related to president's rule.

lsunil · Post by **lsunil** » 10 Jul 2010 20:40

The primary objective in any war is to break the enemy's will to fight. We already know our enemy. Allow the jammu and the ladhakh wallahs the right to arm themselves. Remove article 370 and see what happens. But the initiative is not there. Centre keeps passing the buck.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 10 Jul 2010 20:46

chaanakya wrote:Solution to J&K problem is rather simple. Allow people to purchase land and get all rights after some years of domicile. People who intermarry , allow the all rights, as applicable in other parts of India. Extend all laws in normal course, rather than by specific order. And allow army to resettle XSM in the valley in large enough numbers. Follow China in this respect. Zehadi types can be controlled only by placing more non zehadi type in the valley. The talk of Kashimiriyat is bullshit. People forget that it was once a Hindu country and mostly they are converts under duress. and lastly, send article 370 to meet its 72.

Any plans on how to do this sirji?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Jul 2010 22:04

Carl_T wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Solution to J&K problem is rather simple. Allow people to purchase land and get all rights after some years of domicile. People who intermarry , allow the all rights, as applicable in other parts of India. Extend all laws in normal course, rather than by specific order. And allow army to resettle XSM in the valley in large enough numbers. Follow China in this respect. Zehadi types can be controlled only by placing more non zehadi type in the valley. The talk of Kashimiriyat is bullshit. People forget that it was once a Hindu country and mostly they are converts under duress. and lastly, send article 370 to meet its 72.
Any plans on how to do this sirji?

First things first. In sequence and in time it would get done.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jul 2010 22:52

Ki mein jhoot bolya, ki mein kufar tolya, ki mein zehar gholya?

OIC condemns use of force by the Indian Police against Kashmiri people

OIC members includes Pakistan, which via its Army operations on Afghanistan border, has turned out to be biggest killer of Muslims in the world. Ironically, OIC has also has refused membership for India which has larger Muslim population than many OIC members. This has resulted in difficulties for Muslims in India that includes Kashmir’s.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jul 2010 22:58

chaanakya wrote:Solution to J&K problem is rather simple. Allow people to purchase land and get all rights after some years of domicile. People who intermarry , allow the all rights, as applicable in other parts of India. Extend all laws in normal course, rather than by specific order. And allow army to resettle XSM in the valley in large enough numbers. Follow China in this respect. Zehadi types can be controlled only by placing more non zehadi type in the valley. The talk of Kashimiriyat is bullshit. People forget that it was once a Hindu country and mostly they are converts under duress. and lastly, send article 370 to meet its 72.[/b
First things first. In sequence and in time it would get done.

Start with land grants to ex servicemen. Pass a lawful exemption for such allocation in the name of national security.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 10 Jul 2010 23:18

chaanakya wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Solution to J&K problem is rather simple. Allow people to purchase land and get all rights after some years of domicile. People who intermarry , allow the all rights, as applicable in other parts of India. Extend all laws in normal course, rather than by specific order. And allow army to resettle XSM in the valley in large enough numbers. Follow China in this respect. Zehadi types can be controlled only by placing more non zehadi type in the valley. The talk of Kashimiriyat is bullshit. People forget that it was once a Hindu country and mostly they are converts under duress. and lastly, send article 370 to meet its 72.

First things first. In sequence and in time it would get done.

Again, to do all this you need approval of J&K, so any idea of how to do that?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jul 2010 00:06

Carl_T wrote: Again, to do all this you need approval of J&K, so any idea of how to do that?

I am sure you have some idea of how many laws have been extended to J&K and how despite political opposition.

Omit "except the State of Jammu and Kashmir" wherever it occurs in any central law and bring it under Extension act.

The constitution of J&K was issued in 1957 while it was integrated in 1947. Now one can remedy the situation by bringing J&K assembly fully under constitutional scheme of India being integral part of India prior to setting up of Constituent assembly of J&K for writing their damned constitution.
Use this wherever possible. to add central law to its schedule.
http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/Laws/T ... t-1968.htm

One can draw up the roadmap for extending laws or enacting laws for all over india ( in specific subjects of our interest where majority of states agree to go by it ( for subjects in state list) ) and then extend it to J&K using above act.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 11 Jul 2010 02:01

chaanakya wrote:
One can draw up the roadmap for extending laws or enacting laws for all over india ( in specific subjects of our interest where majority of states agree to go by it ( for subjects in state list) ) and then extend it to J&K using above act.

Yes you are right, article 370 allows GOI jurisdiction over land transfer. The article itself seems pretty superficial in terms of what it can limit the GoI in doing, so the article itself is not a barrier, but only passing the law.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Jul 2010 05:20

US terms Kashmir Valley protest India’s internal matter
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... matter-170

US State Department’s deputy spokesman Mark Tone also told journalists that the current situation in Indian occupied Kashmir was India’s internal issue and asked protesters to conduct agitations in a peaceful manner. “We always support dialogue between India and Pakistan,” Mr Toner said when asked if Kashmir should be discussed between the two countries. “We regret the loss of life in this incident. It is an internal Indian matter. We respect the efforts of the government of India to investigate and resolve the current situation in Kashmir,” he said, adding that the United States had always encouraged India and Pakistan to resolve all its differences through dialogue. “In terms of the protest, we would just urge everyone to refrain from violence and conduct protest in a free and peaceful manner,” said the US official.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jul 2010 09:27

Omar Abdullah Interview

http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_p ... ?id=151710

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jul 2010 09:42

Manmohan calls up Mehbooba

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/11/stories ... 340100.htm

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jul 2010 09:43

Kashmir leaders back PM's call

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/11/stories ... 590100.htm

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jul 2010 09:49

Army may be withdrawn next week: Omar

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/11/stories ... 471200.htm

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Jul 2010 10:08

Valencia to Valley, money passes
- With Kashmir on the boil, trail from Spain blips on security radar
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100711/j ... 670615.jsp

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jul 2010 10:41

^^ carl , people ( ok some separatists) of Kashmir have already attempted demographic change by driving out pandits and non muslims out of valley. They have already lost their rights to protest against any such change. Under Sekloor policy of govt leading to inaction and lip service and media silence over this issue needs to be broken and massive campaign should be launched to de-fang the root cause of this problem. Same demographic change could not be done in Jammu and pakis don't want this as is evident in their chenab formula for solution to J&K. Reason is obvious and point to solution to Kashmir problem.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Jul 2010 10:52

Rahul M wrote:>> Article 356 needs to go.

you mean article 370. 356 (and 365) are related to president's rule.

AoA!
Too many herbs.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 11 Jul 2010 11:21

chaanakya wrote:^^ carl , people ( ok some separatists) of Kashmir have already attempted demographic change by driving out pandits and non muslims out of valley. They have already lost their rights to protest against any such change. Under Sekloor policy of govt leading to inaction and lip service and media silence over this issue needs to be broken and massive campaign should be launched to de-fang the root cause of this problem. Same demographic change could not be done in Jammu and pakis don't want this as is evident in their chenab formula for solution to J&K. Reason is obvious and point to solution to Kashmir problem.

No objection, I was only referring to the legal barriers that prevent action.

lsunil · Post by **lsunil** » 11 Jul 2010 11:59

India have given 370 status to J&K and i believe it can take it back without the consent of the leaders in that state. It will send out wrong message to the world and the separatists will find a very good reason to riot. This is will have to be done someday. The question is whether the govt in the centre is ready to take the responsibility of handling the initiative and the aftermath.

Manmeet · Post by **Manmeet** » 11 Jul 2010 14:53

lsunil wrote:India have given 370 status to J&K and i believe it can take it back without the consent of the leaders in that state. It will send out wrong message to the world and the separatists will find a very good reason to riot. This is will have to be done someday. The question is whether the govt in the centre is ready to take the responsibility of handling the initiative and the aftermath.

Do you think our leaders have ball.s to do this?
As far as I know we don't need any kashmiri to get rid of art 370.
If president of India approves the demand of the parliament and governor of J&K gives his consent, art 370 goes in trash bin.
Moreover art 370 doesn't trouble as India has been extending its laws to J&K opposing what is in art 370
But can you expect this from a congress govt which is responsible of every damn problem this country faces?
In every problem, congress searches for an opportunity to strengthen its vote bank.
Now what has happened in kashmir, has given congress an opportunity to appease its muslim vote bank.
I tell you now what would be the outcome of all party meet in Srinagar and Delhi. AFSPA powers to our armed forces will be at stake. This is what they are going to talk about.....

Congress damn cares of the gains SF have made in these 20 years, all is part of their 'strategy to win next elections'.
Here is the link to prove it..
PM requests Mehbooba mufi to attend all party meet knowing her party is responsible for stone pelting..
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/10ju ... date.htm#2

No freaken shame....
Shame will get ashamed but these stooges wouldn't