Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

[amit]

"Pakistan’s responsibility to carry forward the investigation into the attacks". Why the eff is it Pakistan's responsibility ? Did we elect Pakistani leaders ? If they are going to renege on their "responsibilities", what are you going to do about it ?

Often times, GOI's dealing feels like saying "you raped my daughter, please acknowledge it" to the rapist.

Maybe the Home Minister's remarks were meant to elicit this kind of response:

"The remarks are very disappointing, especially coming on the eve of Indo-Pak talks," a top official in the Pakistan government said.

Link

I hope you note that these remarks sets the tone and tenor of what the Indians will discuss with the Pukes. Now the Pukes after the meeting will certainly claim great "concessions" by India. But what will happen on the ground? I don't think anything will change but India would have proven how "reasonable" she is in talking to Pakistan.

However, the point is, maybe India should show once in a while it is "unreasonable" to see how the Pukes and the world reacts. But the problem with this approach is, that is exactly what the TSPA wants India to do so that it gets an excuse to stop this fight with their brothers in arms the Badlands and concentrate on the eastern front.

It's a game of chess. Let's see what the end game is going to be, we're still in the middle game.

JMT, so take it for what it's worth.

Added later: I think this headline says it all

Krishna’s Pakistan talks get a Headley preface

[amit]

Time for Pak to act on 26/11 proof: Krishna

Krishna highlighted the "non-partisan" nature of Headley's evidence, saying he had been interrogated in the US and India could not be faulted for the Lashkar man's comments. "India naturally expects some response from Pakistan. I am here to find out what exactly this response is."

"I will have to discuss Headley's revelations and various evidences that our investigations have revealed," Krishna said.

By pinpointing terrorism as "our core issue" to an audience more used to hearing Kashmir mentioned in such a context, Krishna has made clear that normalization of ties, or even any significant progress towards this end, was largely tied in with Pakistan's ability to act on assurances delivered by Gilani to his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh.

[ajit_tr]

For the attention of ajit_tr

You have a PM from me. Please respond.

Sridharji,
the email i used during registration is down due to site up-gradation for time being.Can you please provide me with your id so that i can respond to your pm.Coz the one i used to respond was the webmaster at brf email.to which i think many people have access coz at times i got replies from different peoples from that id.

[neel t]

Pakistan's new passion.. http://bit.ly/aCOMKU

[Airavat]

Gen Shankar Roychowdhury on dealing with Pakistan

India’s discussants at Islamabad must always keep in mind that Pakistan’s requirement for peace with India is more urgent than is India’s for “peace at any cost” with Pakistan, all the more so because now, for the first time since Independence, the Pakistan Army finds itself caught in its own “two-and-a-half front” strategic nutcracker: between the Tehrik-e-Taliban in the west, and a perceived threat from “Hindu” India in the east, coupled with a half-front of internal instability with Punjabi Taliban and sectarian Shia-hunters ripping the Pakistani heartland apart. Such contingencies had hitherto been engineered exclusively for India by the Pakistani military and covert operations establishments and it is surely some kind of poetic justice that these have now appeared within their own compounds.

For India, part of the problem is the blanket appellation of “Kashmir” as shorthand for the entire state of “Jammu and Kashmir” which obfuscates the ground reality of three separate and distinct sub-regions in the state — Jammu, the Kashmir Valley and Ladakh, all quite diverse and divergent in their outlook and mindset.

Though Hindu pandits and other minorities have been forced out of the Valley and into internal exile in other parts of the country, the Valley region alone does not represent the whole of Jammu and Kashmir. It is important that Indian public opinion is educated and informed that even within the Valley there are fairly substantial non-Kashmiri speaking Muslim segments — Gujjars and Bakarwals in the upper reaches nurture a long-standing disconnect with the dominant Kashmiri-speaking mainstream because of economic and social marginalisation. The Gujjar and Bakarwal constituencies are not inimical to India and, given focused political empowerment in an inclusive manner, can form significant political counter weights to separatist forces.

[shravan]

Explosion in Mingora, 5 dead

PESHAWAR: An alleged suicide attack in Mingora has claimed the lives of five people with many other injured on Thursday.

[naren]

"Pakistan’s responsibility to carry forward the investigation into the attacks". Why the eff is it Pakistan's responsibility ? Did we elect Pakistani leaders ? If they are going to renege on their "responsibilities", what are you going to do about it ?

Often times, GOI's dealing feels like saying "you raped my daughter, please acknowledge it" to the rapist.

Maybe the Home Minister's remarks were meant to elicit this kind of response:

"The remarks are very disappointing, especially coming on the eve of Indo-Pak talks," a top official in the Pakistan government said.

Link

I hope you note that these remarks sets the tone and tenor of what the Indians will discuss with the Pukes. Now the Pukes after the meeting will certainly claim great "concessions" by India. But what will happen on the ground? I don't think anything will change but India would have proven how "reasonable" she is in talking to Pakistan.

However, the point is, maybe India should show once in a while it is "unreasonable" to see how the Pukes and the world reacts. But the problem with this approach is, that is exactly what the TSPA wants India to do so that it gets an excuse to stop this fight with their brothers in arms the Badlands and concentrate on the eastern front.

It's a game of chess. Let's see what the end game is going to be, we're still in the middle game.

JMT, so take it for what it's worth.

Added later: I think this headline says it all

Krishna’s Pakistan talks get a Headley preface

Agree with you about that chess thing. Another possibility is convincing the mango Indian abdul that they are not sucking up onlee & engaging in elaborate chai-biskoot. As long as GOI can show some real objectives achieved (reduction in terrorism, or prompting US to cut down on its aid etc.), I'll be happy.

[jamwal]

Blast damages 100-year-old Pakistani mosque

Another ? What is going on ? Muslims cannot do this.

[amit]

Agree with you about that chess thing. Another possibility is convincing the mango Indian abdul that they are not sucking up onlee & engaging in elaborate chai-biskoot. As long as GOI can show some real objectives achieved (reduction in terrorism, or prompting US to cut down on its aid etc.), I'll be happy.

Boss,

I think the objective is to let the Pukes stew in their own juice. The only way Puke elites and TSPA can unite all the factions busy killing each other (see the Jamwal ji post above as an example) is to start a war cry against India.

Now that becomes that much more difficult if India appears non threatening and holds chai-biskoot sessions in Islamabad and other places, IMO.

A few more years of this blood letting should be fun to watch.

[Gagan]

Here is the Paki Faisal shahzad's full tape. This guy seems to be a Pakjabi by his accent, his mis-pronounciations (zakaat, politics, inferior, united) and mannerisms.
This is the real face of >95 % pakistani youth today. These buggers have been so indoctrinated that any one of the pakistanis can seemlessly cross the line from where they are today to become faisal shahzads.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwOiXxTOxrA

You will hear the people on pakistani forums calling him a fool, and radical and what not. But remember this - each one of the Pakistani youth secretly wishes they were FS. This fool is a hero for them, a role model.

One thing is clear, almost ANY young pakistani can be very easily indoctrinated to become a suicide bomber given the environment in pakistan today. Jihad is considered very prestigious, there is a form of 'revolutionary warrior' aura about the jihadis in that society.

[Gagan]

The gujjars and bakarwals have been included in the SC category by GoI.
These people are really marginalized, mostly uneducated and lead simple lives.

These guys have small shelters all over the hills where they take their goats, sheep and shelter for the night and in bad weather. The terrorists would often hide in some of these shelters, and the gujjars and bakarwals would be the ones who would tip off the security forces to their presence. (Remember Kargil, and the tip off that the armed forces got was from the sheep rearers there - but I think those are guys are Shias in the area around Kargil)

[r_subramanian]

Five dead in Mingora blast

A suicide bomber blew himself up in an apparent attack at a security convoy, killing at least five people including two women and injuring 45 others, including women and children bomber hit a security convoy in Mingora...

link

[Singha]

well its almost friday....time to await the usual developments...

[anupmisra]

Blast damages 100-year-old Pakistani mosque

Another ? What is going on ? Muslims cannot do this.

Yes they can. Hindus and other minorities can't.

[archan]

^^ kya sir jee, an old hand not catching the sarc-e-azam?

[shiv]

Five dead in Mingora blast

A suicide bomber blew himself up in an apparent attack at a security convoy, killing at least five people including two women and injuring 45 others, including women and children bomber hit a security convoy in Mingora...

link

Not a problem. Mingora is a good 120 km away from Islamabad.

Dilli Islumabad dur ast. No need for anyone to worry.

[Brad Goodman]

Add "Dismiss Zardari - Bring in the army" to that list.
Though with zardar's latest visit to cheena land, and the suspected NoKo bum test occuring together, finally it seems that the zardar is doing something for Pakistan and the faujis.

Pakis have an amazing propensity to spin conspiracy theories and they have such a short term memory loss that they do not remember the excuse they burped out right before the one they are saying now. It does not even bother them that they keep scoring self goals in this process and that is because for that they need an analytical mind but hey they cannot have an analytical mind since they have already lived most part of their patheitic exisitence on earth defending the holy book that is full of such contradictions so what is different when you apply the same logic to real life events aka current affairs.

Just look at their guru / genius of current affairs whom they revere so madly. Zaid kazzab hamid now in any field people follow a guy who has some level of academic and work experience that is well recognized and accepted. This guy is a self proclaimed engineering school dropout with zero academic knowledge of international affairs working as an employee of an security company that offers anti theft devices to be provided to houses and commercial establishment that is same as chowkidar of a building calling himself a security expert and from home security to national security and then to international security now where is the connections go figure it out for yourself.

The guy claims he fought afghan jihad in 80's now only proof for that is he was in NWFP during those years but then this claim is as true as me claiming to be spider man because I live in NYC. No one has a clue of what this guy did was he a fighter a mule carrying supplies or was he a tableegi preaching or was he a ashna serving the physical needs of tired mujahideens? looking at all the options and using scientefic theory of elimination I can conclude that the last option looks like the most highly probable option and since the guy must have gone with high hopes of becoming a fighter and then coming to realization that mujahideens have decided to use his services the same way as japanese used some korean and chinese women during WW2 the guy was left to fight for his ghairat. Now when he came back he thought I fought mujahideens and these muj's fought soviet so by theory of translation I fought the soviets.

The guy during 26/11 stated that kasab was amar singh and then when the camera teams landed in faridkot he changed it to he crossed border to see bollywood. So there itself was a self goal but that never made any pakis doubt him. Since all they wanted to hear was that pakis are innocent it does not matter what arguments are used to further this theory. Same with his theory that there was an attack planned on kahuta. Now there were only two possible outcomes for this probablity one was an attack happens and the guy is vindicated and second is attack does not happen on which he says, see because I warned them they chickened out.

Pakis will talk like gazis boasting their supernatural powers in destroying soviet union and in the same breath blame amrikhan for the mess they are in because of afghan jihad so they want to eat the mango but put the seed in some one elses lap. Same goes with religion the more they follow it the deeper they sink into the hole and the more they sink the more pious they want to be. Now there is no way to stop this downward spiral only area of interest is to see how least collateral damage can we suffer with this implosion.

[Philip]

Whatever be one's grouse aginst the rulers of the TSP,on humanitarian grounds one cannot but pity the poor blighted citizens of Jinnah's motheaten then,now splintered state.If there was a Paki version of the "Lord's Prayer" it would tragically read thus,
"give us this day our daily bomb.."

Pak is simply out of control and it is simply inconceivable how the US and its great intellectual ignoramuses,myopic military minds and vast tribe of diplomutts,are so blind to the truth of the situation and the futility of their "mission".These latter-day "missionaries" of America and NATO are reaping the harvest of a famine struck land and will return home like the Crusaders of yore who were forced to abandon Jerusalem to the Saracens and retreat in defeat to their native lands.

[Brad Goodman]

I strongly disagree. The government of any country is representative of the mindset of the people and the society in general. So if India is democratic or secular that is not because that is how JLN wished it or gandhi dreamt it. It is because that is how Indian want it to be. This is the same reason that BJP when in power with all its rethoric made absolutely no changes to any principles in the constitution including barring of foreign nationals to hold the post of PM. Same is true for reservations or other issues. Wth Paki's and mango abduls of that country they always want sharia and islam pasand policies and that is exactly what they get. They hate democracy and so land up with military policies and when they get bored with military they vote back PMLN or PPP alliances to power not like they dont have options they have Imran Khan and Jamat as other loonie options but currently their love fest with islam hasnt reached its cresent so these parties have to wait.

[jamwal]

^^
+1

[Brad Goodman]

Here is an example from today's news paper that will explain you the mindset of islamic societies

B’desh battles male attitudes behind sexual crimes

“Bangladeshi girls get little respect in many families, and often boys grow up believing girls are not human beings but sexual objects,” said Dhaka-based psychology professor Mehtab Khanom. “Traditional attitudes and new technology like mobile phones have combined to change how young people interact and leaving victims, parents and the authorities struggling to respond,” she said. afp

Now another article I read in Yawn

Woman abused in Larkana

Recently our televisions flashed images of a 28-year-old woman being publicly abused in Larkana by her own brother and husband only to be witnessed by a mute crowd.

The advent of Islam was a respite for women who were previously given the lowest status in society. Islam, which is conveniently used by these upholders of a false and primitive concept of honour, was the first religion to raise the status of women.

It is sad that a country which has its very roots and foundation in Islam bears witness to such heinous crimes against helpless women.

So in short Islam is great religion despite the fact that islamic countries are faring the worst amongst all countries in the world on the front of sexual discrimination and we need to enforce a stricter version of islam to counter this.

[ajit_tr]

Last edited by SSridhar on 15 Jul 2010 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
You have PM

Replied through email.

[arun]

X Posted from the Baloch genocide thread.

A Baloch / Baluch Human Rights organization accuses the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, particularly its security agencies the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Military Intelligence (MI). of involvement in the assassination of veteran Blochi / Baluchi politician Habib Jalib Baloch through “proxy death squads”:

Balochistan: Human Rights Council condemns Assassination

Thursday, 15 July 2010 ………………….

Baloch Human Rights Council (UK) strongly condemns the assassination of prominent Baloch nationalist politician Habib Jalib Baloch, Secretary General of the Balochistan National Party (BNP) on Wednesday 14 July 2010. BHRC (UK) strongly condemns the inhuman tactics of the Pakistani State Establishment of physically eliminating prominent nationalist leaders through the “proxy death squads” operating on behalf of security agencies like Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Military Intelligence (MI) in Balochistan. ………………

UNPO

[ramana]

"SSridhar"As Indian FM arrives in Islamabad, Indian Home Secretary directly accuses ISI of participation in 26/11.

He said it was now Pakistan’s responsibility to carry forward the investigation into the attacks. “We have given them a whole series of data, and information that we have. We have given them the names, we have given them the descriptions (of terrorists and their handlers), we have given them what their height is or their complexion is. Whatever descriptions we have been able to obtain from our investigations, we have shared them with Pakistan. Now it is up to them and all I can say is that their interior minister said (during Home Minister P Chidambaram’s visit to Pakistan last month) and I quote ‘You would not be disappointed in our response’. So we have to wait and see how much they can do.”

"Pakistan’s responsibility to carry forward the investigation into the attacks". Why the eff is it Pakistan's responsibility ? Did we elect Pakistani leaders ? If they are going to renege on their "responsibilities", what are you going to do about it ?

Often times, GOI's dealing feels like saying "you raped my daughter, please acknowledge it" to the rapist.

Naren for you:

Nightwatch, 7/14/2010:

India-Pakistan: Today, on the eve of the first talks between foreign ministers since 2008, the Indian Home Affairs Ministry announced that India has obtained evidence that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate played a more significant role in the planning and execution of the November 2008 Mumbai attack than had previously been thought, according to Indian Home Secretary G. K. Pillai, Indian Express reported 14 July.

Pillai said information gathered from interrogations of David Headley, a U.S. citizen accused of helping plan the attack, indicated the ISI had planned the attack with Lashkar-e-Taiba militant Hafiz Saeed "from beginning to end." He added that the ISI was not a peripheral player, but was controlling and coordinating the attack, and that Saeed also knew everything about the attack.

Comment: The Indians have sprung a trap on the Pakistanis. It will be noteworthy if the talks are held at all. Every Indian acceptance of talks with Pakistan since November 2008 has been predicated on a discussion of terrorism first, specifically anti-Indian terrorism from Pakistan. Pakistan has argued for broader talks. Today, India narrowed the focus once again, while seeming to accept the Pakistani terms for more general discussions.

The Indian trap appears to be New Delhi's response to last week's Pakistani ministry of foreign affairs statement denouncing Indian "occupation" of Kashmir. The talks will go nowhere unless Pakistan agrees to deal effectively with ISI support to Pakistan-based terrorists, which is now almost beyond dispute. For India, Pakistan is a state sponsor of terrorism.

[sum]

Spring a trap is fine but if there is no physical punishment to the main organisers, why will they stop needling us?

There have to be some consequences for misdeeds since the world ( and esp Pakis) no longer fears big words followed by zilch action!!

[mraghu]

Is anyone watching the News Channels CNN-IBN, TimesNow and others. It looks like from the discussions in those channels it was a very tough Newsconf on the Chai-Biskoot round between the FM's. One comment was that the Hawks in the Indian CCS have won and want to take a very tough stand on relations with pak

[ramana]

X-Post.. Good observations:

Shyamd,
What is your reading on 26/11 trial and how this is going to turn out?

My personal opinion is that TSP govt is only acting on certain individuals because they have to show something to the US and world community and to a certain extent their people of TSP - in order to show some legitimacy of the govt.

How is it going to turn out? Will Pakistan ever bring those responsible to justice?

Some will be put in jail (to show some tough action by TSP govt) - perhaps Lakhvi or some other small guys involved (and then after 12 months will be out and about with new IDs or even kept under house arrest for a while, will keep a low profile and ISI money will continue to reach them and their families). This is what I think will happen to "those who are guilty". Then if relations with India deteriorate, they will be released.

For now I think TSP is just playing the media game - show the world that they are trying to do something. But the world (govts probably do) doesnt realise that these people involved are representatives of the TSP govt.

TSP is the master of deception that has been fooling everyone. Paki's will be Paki's.

Why is GoI doing what it is doing, if we all know that the people who did this are the ones who run that country and not the government of pakistan?

Govt of TSP i.e. Zardari and co don't have any power at all (I think all of us on this board know that)!

One of the statements Pranab made after 26/11 was to say that we need seperate negotiation with the TSP army as they are the ones who really run that country, No point talking to the govt. And I think he said future negotiation will directly be with TSPA. So, which makes me ask the question of what is this drama of meeting Home ministers and Foreign min's all about? Is there a seperate track of negotiation directly with ISI/TSPA as Pranab hinted post 26/11? It would make sense if this track is secret as if this would be made public, the govt of TSP would be made illegitamate. So, I think that GoI is playing to an audience abroad, with this trips to TSP.

Truth is, we commoners don't really know what is going on. And I really don't know what GoI is trying to do.

The US is the one that gave us transcripts that linked Kayani directly in Kabul attacks. That should have been enough to goto war. What more evidence do we need? We already know the answer of who is responsible for 26/11.

Even Kabul attack evidence that US provided was enough for us to goto war. But we didn't... So what is GoI's game plan??

I think MMS is more concerned about the economy than TSP terror. Lets say he went to war, it would unite the TSP as a nation. Our economy could suffer as a result. Then lets say if we decisively defeat TSPA and take over vaste swathes of the country - then what? We will have an Iraq type situation with insurgent problems. Is there any point in crossing the border and hitting terror camps with their tents? The core issue of terror isn't going to be solved - it just brings a whole host of problems with it. Its a hassle that we don't need and has proven to be one of the biggest reasons why the US is in trouble and bogged down (side note - if this is true, did the US want us to go to war? ).

26/11, Kabul and other many attacks were simple. It was TSP saying "Yes I did it! Now Hit me". I think going to war with TSP would have united TSP and solved some big internal problems for TSPA. US would be happy as Taliban might be diverted away from Afghanistan and they will head for Kashmir - more Indian resources will be spent on war and not on developing the economy (lets face it, US is worried about our rise and they know India is the next big world power - the british did this in Iraq, you know MI6 had a small station in Kuwait city just to watch the Iraq - Kuwait border and they were just waiting for the day that Iraq would invade.)

If we leave TSP alone - they are left with a begging bowl and at 26/11 time, I think many territories were being taken over by the Taliban. Swat was big in the news at the time right? So MMS and strategicwalla's probably thought, "we don't need to do anything, TSP are already at war internally and their economy can't survive on its own now without funds being doled out by KSA/US".Even today, we know that TSP is worried about Pashtun nationalism and a seperate nation. We also had a lot of success in J&K against terrorists, which helped a lot.

So, in summary, what is GoI trying to do - just wait for TSPs demise, Priority number 1 is our economy - this will allow us to spend TSP to the ground. Talk to TSP govt just to play to the international audience.

Sorry if things are a bit jumbled up in this post and I maybe wrong. This is just my opinion.

[CRamS]

Is anyone watching the News Channels CNN-IBN, TimesNow and others. It looks like from the discussions in those channels it was a very tough Newsconf on the Chai-Biskoot round between the FM's. One comment was that the Hawks in the Indian CCS have won and want to take a very tough stand on relations with pak

I read the reports including this on the failed talks as expected.

[aqkhan]

Bruising spat erupts at peace talks briefing

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 174188.cms

The foreign ministers' meetings between India and Pakistan all but collapsed in a welter of accusations on Thursday. Pakistan steadfastly refused to engage in any substantial manner with the critical areas of Mumbai attacks, cross-border terrorism and infiltration, choosing to argue that Islamabad could not speed "judicial" processes.

The joint press conference, which started around 9pm, instead of the scheduled 2.15 pm, saw foreign minister S M Krishna and his Pakistani counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi take on each other in what turned out to be a bruising spat beamed live.

The divergence came out starkly on Balochistan and infiltration in Jammu and Kashmir as the interaction with the media almost degenerated into a joust.

Asked about India's "role" in Balochistan, Krishna responded, "Forget about credible evidence, we have not received a shred of evidence".

On the issue of anti-India jihad speeches of Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Saeed, Qureshi actually offered home secretary G K Pillai's comments on Lashkar man David Headley's implication of ISI as a "counter-point". The equation of the mild-mannered Pillai as an equivalent to the Lashkar amir left the Indian delegation gaping.

Qureshi further said Pillai's statement had come up in discussions and "both of us felt it was unwarranted".

Krishna did not respond to this sally. But Qureshi's reference to Pillai as a Hafiz Saeed "clone" more or less symbolized the near futility of the engagement that was to take forward home minister P Chidambaram's discussions just last month.

===========================================================================================

I didn't understand what Qureshi meant by Pillai's statement. Can someone explain?

Also, I think this is positive news for India that Pakistan is acting belligerent. I hope the GoI keep the option of military open.

[ramana]

I hope Holebroke is satisfied.

Good job SMKji.

[harbans]

Even TOI now calls Porkistan...*****:

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan — the land of the pure — has notched up a rather unenviable first place, for ***** searches per person across the world, according to Google search trends.

According to a Fox News report, Pakistan is "top dog in searches for 'horse sex', since 2004, 'donkey sex' since 2007, 'rape pictures' and 'rape sex' since 2004, 'child sex' between 2004 and 2007 and since 2009, 'animal sex' since 2004 and 'dog sex' since 2005".

The country also tops or has topped in searches under the categories of sex, camel sex, rape video, child sex video and some other unprintables. The Pakistani embassy did not reply to a request for an interview, the report said.

*****?

So what happens to Aman ki Asha now?

[Suppiah]

Let us not pop the champagne glasses too soon...Stalinist rapist goon propaganda yellow daily has a tame take on the whole affair and suggests SMK also disapproves Pillai's statement...

[harbans]

Deff, Dumb, PRC and the Jihadi Monkey

Maybe China Daily and NY Post can be referred to BENIS thread for more such news?

[CRamS]

Let us not pop the champagne glasses too soon...Stalinist rapist goon propaganda yellow daily has a tame take on the whole affair and suggests SMK also disapproves Pillai's statement...

Any link? But I think it doesn't need a genius IQ to realize that TSP is not going to respond to India's terror demands through talks, what India could not achieve otherwise. So talks were futile to begin with, unless India was prepared to surrnder and move on. I think thats was the message behind Quereshi's reference to Pillai, namely, if you have climbed down from Mumbai in agreeing to talk and surrender, why then did Pillai make the statement he did?

[A_Gupta]

Let me paraphrase:

Pillai said Headley squarely fingered ISI and Hafiz Saeed in 26/11.

Qureshi said, Pillai is a hate-monger equal to Hafiz Saeed.

Does that require any further translation?

[Prem]

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jul/ ... gilani.htm
Army chief meets Gilani

Pakistan Army [ Images ] chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani [ Images ] on Thursday met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani [ Images ] shortly before the foreign ministers of India [ Images ] and Pakistan called on the premier.Kayani went to the prime minister's secretariat this afternoon for the meeting. An official statement said the army chief and the premier discussed the overall security situation in the country.Kayani also briefed the premier on his recent visit to Australia [ Images ]. External Affairs Minister S M Krishna [ Images ] and his Pakistani counterpart called on Gilani after their first round of talks at the Foreign Office

n

[putnanja]

Fissures run deep but India, Pak agree to meet again

...
Sources said the Indian side insisted on a specific and concrete assurance from Islamabad regarding action against the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attack in light of the latest revelations made by Pakistani-American Lashkar-e-Toiba operative David Coleman Headley.

The Pakistani side, the sources said, didn’t go further than the promise to investigate the matter. India, on the other hand, refused to engage on Kashmir, as desired by Pakistan. The deadlock, sources said, was on the framework for a roadmap for future engagements. While India wanted a roadmap for further engagements, the Pakistani side insisted to include what they called substantive issues like the strategic restraint regime and Kashmir.


..
...
On alleged rights violations in Kashmir, Krishna said J&K has an elected government and a legitimate Chief Minister and law and order is a state subject. “If they (state government) feel they are unable to maintain law and order or check human rights violations, they can seek help from the Central government,” he said. “There are a number of institutions... we have an institutional network to take care of human rights violations.”

To this, Qureshi said three Kashmir-based organizations had written to him on human rights violations — on the issue of curfew, use of Indian armed forces and loss of lives. He, however, said that the elected government of J&K had made a statement, favouring this Indo-Pak engagement. The Pakistani reporters objected to Qureshi’s reference to the J&K government as elected and for not using the prefix “occupied”.

On the issue of Balochistan, Qureshi said: “We raised the issue of destabilization of Balochistan and his (Indian Home Minister’s) response was encouraging. His reaction was that India was not interested.” Krishna said India had been waiting for “some evidence” from Pakistan to show Indian involvement. “There is not a shred of evidence,” he said.

Krishna raised the issue of the spurt in infiltration across the Line of Control, saying there had been a 40 per cent increase between 2008 and 2009. “These infiltrations are designed to create instability and restlessness in that part of India,” he said. Qureshi’s immediately responded: “I categorically reiterate the position of Pakistan. Infiltration is not a policy of Pakistan or any intelligence agency of Pakistan. But if there are individuals who have crossed over, deal with them firmly.”

This upset the Pakistani journalists and one of them even asked Qureshi why was he being so apologetic on “allegations levelled by India”. Qureshi said he was neither apologetic nor was there any reason for Pakistan to be apologetic.

Wow, these paki journalists don't hide their affiliation to ISI!!

[Gerard]

From this week's Friday Times

Not bad at all!

The Father of our Bum got his fingers burnt by playing footsie with the khakis. As we all know, when the chips were down, and his proliferation network got found out, the Yanks failed to turn their customary blind eye and pounced on the khakis in the time of Mush. They passed the buck and the Father of our Bum was dethroned unceremoniously from his hallowed status of hero. In one day, he went from hero to zero. But not quite, for no one laid a finger on all the greenbacks he’d collected on his way to heroism. These greenbacks make an appearance every now and then, as for instance in the purchase of a swank new apartment in the most up market area of Dubai. The Father of our Bum sent one of his offspring to negotiate the sale and do the deal which closed at a handsome 2.3 million United Arab Emirates Dhirhams. That’s US $ 650,000 and more than five and a half crore Pak Rupees. Not bad for a gent who’s out of work.

All expenses paid

If ever there was an all expenses paid job, it’s got to be the one Gill on the Hill has. The juniors are running around, between them, on the hottest wheels in town. There’s a Hummer, there’s a 6 series Beamer, and a 7 series Beamer. And then there’s the infamous Bentley which very rarely makes an appearance. Then there are Brioni suits, hand made Italian shoes, you name it. Add to this the row of houses in Lahore’s Defence which are ostensibly on a hundred year “lease”. Our mole reports the latest freebie is courtesy the Unintelligent Bureau which is building a fortified wall around Gill’s private residence in Multan. The list goes on and on.

Handsomely provided for

The renowned London nightclub Annabel’s, was named after Jemima Khan’s mother Lady Annabel Goldsmith, by her first husband Mark Birley. From this marriage Lady Annabel had a son called Rupert and a daughter. Rupert died some years ago. The family is now building a swank nightclub in London in his memory, called Birley’s. Jemima is said to be a shareholder in the enterprise. Not that she needs to lift a finger for the rest of her life, handsomely provided for as she is by her late father, Sir James Goldsmith. Her two sons, The Great Khan’s boys, are also beneficiaries of a trust fund whereby it is said they will receive 20 million GBP each when they attain maturity, according to Sir James’ will.

[CRamS]

Let me paraphrase:

Pillai said Headley squarely fingered ISI and Hafiz Saeed in 26/11.

Qureshi said, Pillai is a hate-monger equal to Hafiz Saeed.

Does that require any further translation?

Yes it does. From TSP perspective, and I hate to be in their shoes, if you are going to publicly level allegations, then whats the purpose of talking? TSP expects that India will forget about Mumbai, terror, ISI etc, and talk about handing over Kashmir; they are after all the victorious party in that they did not succumb to India's demands post Mumbai, and it was India that decided to engage them even though India's demands were not met.

[shiv]

Let me paraphrase:

Pillai said Headley squarely fingered ISI and Hafiz Saeed in 26/11.

Qureshi said, Pillai is a hate-monger equal to Hafiz Saeed.

Does that require any further translation?

In fact just last night I was wondering what options Pakistan has on being confronted with the ISI-LeT-26/11 links and what tactic they would use and wanted to start a BRF poll, but did not because I was unable to be as creative as Pakis in thinking of poll options.

I thought: when faced with overwhelming evidence and pressure to accept that the Paki government and army are linked to terrorism, Pakistan has the following options

1) Acceptance of guilt - they will never do that
2) Privately accept guilt and indicate that they are powerless to control the army and ISI but take a different public stand
3) Deny completely
4) Do an equal equal by pulling out some random Indian and accusing him of being like the one's Indians are accusing.

In fact I see some vague parallels between some of the things coming out of Pakistan and some of the responses to posts on Pakteahouse.

There seems to be, among Pakistanis a realization that some reduction of what they see as the "India threat" is required so that they can set their house in order. But Pakistan is seeking to get India to reduce the "India threat" by goodwill and unilateral concessions while Pakistan does not take even a small step to control terrorist groups and blatant anti-India hostility.

But the fact is that India, is not being stretched too much by its current defence expenditure and current posture. It is Pakistan that is stretched. So this is an ideal time for India to coerce Pakistan by not giving any concessions other than the tokenism of the type Pakistan is offering. Let them stew in their juices and let them spend their entire budget on defending against India, Taliban terrorism whatever. Another terrorist attack in India will only strengthen India's case.