Indo-UK: News & Discussion

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joshvajohn
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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby joshvajohn » 15 Jul 2010 01:39

UK hopes nuclear, education deals will be inked during PM's India trip
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_uk ... ip_1409756


I think India should find a new way of relating herself with Britain. It needs to be of mutual respect. Many of us seems to have some negative perceptions about Britain. The country has changed to many extent. It needs a complete relook. Indians in UK play major role as medical doctors, researchers and business people.
There is a need to relook at this relationship in terms of partnership and business mutually benefiting. India now has more potential ability and power to invest in UK in various areas while some of the innovative updated technology can be bought and used for many of our needs. In both ways there are many areas of cooperation and colloboration possibly explored.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Jul 2010 03:49

^^ Nukliyaar and etchucation smells of " please bail us OUT!!".

Nukleaaaaar - they will sell us tech that we have - expensive ones and over charge us for it. Just like what america is planning to do and also what they have done in Africa, SE Asia, perhaps the GCC too.

Etchukutty - they will give more visa's for indians to study and pay £12k a year per student.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Sravan » 15 Jul 2010 05:16

guy on youtube claiming Indian scholars to be hailing from western thought..
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=tY5Dz1u50us

anyone want to help me refute his claims :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ? His name is LooksAeterna

"Krishnamurti (theosophists)
Aurobindo (British University, theosophic occultism)
Vivekananda (Freemason)
Tagore (Freemason)
Rajneesh (W. philosophy)"

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 15 Jul 2010 05:43

joshvajohn wrote:I think India should find a new way of relating herself with Britain. It needs to be of mutual respect. Many of us seems to have some negative perceptions about Britain. The country has changed to many extent. It needs a complete relook. Indians in UK play major role as medical doctors, researchers and business people.
There is a need to relook at this relationship in terms of partnership and business mutually benefiting. India now has more potential ability and power to invest in UK in various areas while some of the innovative updated technology can be bought and used for many of our needs. In both ways there are many areas of cooperation and colloboration possibly explored.

IMHO, that is what we should do , our own aircraft Carrier in Europe, Clerk in Indian Business Empire as the original, real boss return. They can be useful in many ways. Being insider they can help Indians spread their own tentacles. In exhcange we provide cement to their facade and they can keep pretending punching in the air above their head. Massa kicking them ,Europe pissing them and with opium war victim China Hissing , it leaves onlee Indian for Kissing and make up.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Jul 2010 19:47

Rulda Singh’s murder: Four held in UK

Punjab Newsline Network
Wednesday, 14 July 2010
PATIALA: The West Midlands Police in England has arrested four persons involved in the murder of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat chief Rulda Singh.

The accused were identified as Gursharan Bir Singh, Piara Singh Gill, Amritbir Singh and Paramjit Singh.

Gursharan Bir Singh, Piara Singh Gill, Amritbir Singh are British nationals and Paramjit Singh from Chamkaur Sahib, who migrated to UK a few years ago.

According to senior police officials, the four suspected persons had been arrested on the basis of a dossier given by the Punjab Police to the British Police sometime ago and their coordinated investigations.

Sixty-year-old Rulda Singh was shot at his shop-cum-flat at the Grain Market, Patiala in Punjab on July 28, 2009, by two assailants, who later fled in a car. While one bullet passed through his neck, another pumped into his chest. He was admitted to the PGI, Chandigarh, but succumbed to his injuries on August 15, 2009.

Patiala SSP Ranbir Singh Khatra, who is heading investigations into the matter, said, a team of the West Midlands Police visited Punjab and held discussions with the Intelligence Bureau, the top brass of the Punjab Police and Patiala cops.

During investigations that continued for the past several months, the leads pointed towards the involvement of some Sikh extremist groups in the UK in the murder case.

Khatra said the role of the four suspected persons in the murder case was being investigated, adding that, “two of them are believed to be British nationals.”

He said a joint probe with the Britian Police points that Paramjit Pamma, Pyara Singh Gill, Amritbir and Gursharan Bir are involved in the case.

Police officials told that investigations strongly indicate that Paramjit Pamma masterminded the plot and Gursharan Bir and Pyara Singh are the main suspects who fired gunshots.

On September 24, 2009, the Patiala Police had arrested two persons, Darshan Singh and Jagmohan Singh, in connection with the murder case. At that time, cops had stated that the Babbar Khalsa International was behind the murder and the main objective to eliminate Rulda was its ideology.

Meanwhile, though the Punjab Police is waiting to get information about the four arrested persons, investigations by the British Police into the murder case were being conducted by officials from the West Midlands Polices’ CID and its Counter-Terrorism Unit.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 15 Jul 2010 20:22

Prem wrote: IMHO, that is what we should do , our own aircraft Carrier in Europe, Clerk in Indian Business Empire as the original, real boss return. They can be useful in many ways. Being insider they can help Indians spread their own tentacles. In exhcange we provide cement to their facade and they can keep pretending punching in the air above their head. Massa kicking them ,Europe pissing them and with opium war victim China Hissing , it leaves onlee Indian for Kissing and make up.


If every one is kicking them then why should we think differently?

They are a loser country soon to implement sharia in a few decades. Fit only for giving sanctimonious sermons. Milliband represented the true thought process of the british. It has not changed in centuries.

After all that has happened why do we need to get involved?

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 16 Jul 2010 02:09

Business Standard reports a very timely and scathing indictment of the so called 'British aid' - nothing more than influence money and consultant slush funds:
Cut in DFID 'aid' not a concern for India
India will not shed tears if the British government makes a “fundamental change” in its development aid policy and scale down the £250-million annual aid to India.

Following the demand to cut British aid to India from a wide spectrum of people and political parties in Britain, international development secretary Andrew Mitchell had said last week that the “£250 million of public money spent annually on nuclear-armed India could be scaled back.”

Indian activists say access to DFID funds is contingent on hiring consultants, mostly British. “When they (DFID) give money they send their own consultants. The way they handle it, it would be better if they didn’t give anything,” said Harsh Jaitley who heads VANI, a network of 2000 NGOs.

Echoing Jaitley’s views Anil Chaudhury, activist and founder of NGO Peace and Action Centre (PEACE), said agreements signed by DFID (and other agencies) have inbuilt clauses that ensure that a chunk of the money was paid to consultancies — a large proportion of these bodies are run by expatriates to ensure that the money flows back into the British economy.

As much as 60 per cent of the grant could often go towards paying the consultants hired by DFID to audit and monitor the programmes. Leakages take care of the rest, said an activist who didn’t want to be named.

Amitabh Behar, co-convenor of the National Social Watch Coalition said none of the ongoing programmes in India that are funded by DFID would be affected if British development aid were to be cut because the Indian government is capable of filling up the gap.

He said a cut back on DFID aid could be the best thing to happen to the development sector. What DFID should fund is not the Indian government but institutions that ensure governance, monitoring and auditing of development funds.

But many activists objected precisely to this: large monitoring mechanisms. These interventions, they say, are nothing but the means to get a handle on policy making and to buy clout in the government. “Their role is to influence policies to the advantage of British trade interests.”

Jaitley said: “When PACS 2 was launched, the finance secretary was present and he said ‘India doesn’t not need the peanuts offered by DFID. It should instead offer expertise’. So our government is not afraid of the kind of statements the British are making now.”

This article should be liberally quoted on forums where Brits babble indignantly about British 'aid' to India.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Raghavendra » 19 Jul 2010 11:58

Gurkha soldier beheads dead Taliban, in dock http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Worl ... 185019.cms

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Jul 2010 12:25

Raghavendra wrote:Gurkha soldier beheads dead Taliban, in dock http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Worl ... 185019.cms


These gora jokers were not so squeamish when they were in India! Then they used to blow up people tied to cannon mouths, no?

Oops, different rules for the fellow people of the book who now also vote in ye olde england.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Jul 2010 12:44

trying to suck up to the RoP both locally and in af. good men will be hung out to dry. and its not as if he executed the man or killed a civilian, a dead pig was lying around and he took his head for id purposes , not to make onion soup out of it.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby svinayak » 19 Jul 2010 14:23

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... ned-beauty

For south Asians perhaps the most worrying aspect of all this is that the only evidence that suggests we may be finally embracing our true, natural appearance and skin shade is to be found in India.

It is "back home" where, the middle classes in particular, are regaining confidence and self respect lost during colonization.

But are British Asians living in our own modern-day Raj – subconsciously wanting to look more like the whites who ruled over us?

"The fair complexion is still sought by the people from the subcontinent [living] in the UK, because they may believe that it would make them more acceptable in their adopted land, which they want to call their own," says Bhatia.

Dr Addy adds: "Look at the cabinet - it is full of indigenous white people. So just as the Indians in the Raj looked up to the whites – here the whites have power, so perhaps we look up to them.

"But Indians now carry prestige in every industry – from medical, pharmaceutical, science, teaching and even prime-time television. We see Indian news broadcasters, so why one would want to change their skin colour is beyond me."

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 19 Jul 2010 14:39

chetak wrote:Then they used to blow up people tied to cannon mouths, no?

This punishment was liberally used against RoPers who mutinied during 1857 as well. I dont think it was reserved only for Hindus.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Haresh » 19 Jul 2010 15:46

Britain, really is going down the pan!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ilets.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/uk-ma ... slims.html

And they worry about a Gurkha doing what Gurkhas do!!!
Time to move to Hoshiarpur I think.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby satyam » 19 Jul 2010 15:51

This is for UK nationals
bbc 4 tonight 7.30p.m. - there's a programme 'islam and science ' where some muslim will tell us about 'islam's scientific achievements

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 20 Jul 2010 14:54

its worth going back to the reader's comments on the daily mail article, all highly supportive of the Gurkha soldier and most asking the crucial question: if ROP members are so keen on being intact in death, why do they blow themselves to pieces?
its all political correctness gone wrong

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby lsunil » 20 Jul 2010 15:14

The british and their so called humanitarian protocols. I don't understand why they are making so much noise on a squabble.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 20 Jul 2010 15:47

because some liberal do-gooder will complain and then the jehadis will join in

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 20 Jul 2010 18:45

If anything that Gurkha soldier should get a commendation. He got the job done under enemy fire.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 20 Jul 2010 18:57

Sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:Then they used to blow up people tied to cannon mouths, no?

This punishment was liberally used against RoPers who mutinied during 1857 as well. I dont think it was reserved only for Hindus.


Sachin saar,

At that time all Indians were lumped together as heathens. I did not suggest that this novel method of family planning was reserved for Hindus only.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 20 Jul 2010 21:26

^^^ and derived from a Mughal form of punishment, possibly the next evolutionary step from being stamped on by elephants

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jul 2010 01:33

Decapitation for identification? ah shameful indeed! No need to go as far back as the Mughals: try this from a very British and very British military professionalism in SA in 1906:
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol124kg.htm

It was only on 13 June - three days after the battle - that a party under Sgt Calverley was sent back into the gorge to obtain proof of Bhambatha's death. This same rebel's hody was found, already in an initial stage of decomposition, and identified as that of Bhambatha. The head was removed, placed in a saddlehag and taken to Nkandla, where it was identified. Official reports emphasise the respect shown for the head, and only a selected few were permitted to view it.

Identification in the gorge was based upon a description of Bhamhatha's features beforehand - a gap between the two middle upper teeth; a slight beard rather under than in front of the chin; a scar immediately below one eye and another on the cheek opposite; a high instep. According to Capt J Stuart, these features were confirmed by the two Zulu informants at Nkandla, and also by two of Inkosi Sigananda Shezi's tribesmen, as well a prisoner who had linked up with Bhambatha. All confirmed that it was Bhambatha's head (Stuart, 1913, p 117).

Walter Bosman describes the death and identification of Bhamhatha in The Natal Rebellion of 1906 (1907, p 103):

'After proceeding for about six miles from Camp, Col McKenzie [Col Sir Duncan McKenzie, who was appointed supreme commander of all forces in Natal and Zululand on 30 May 1906] was intercepted by a messenger from Col Wylie [Lt Col J S Wylie, commander of the Durban Light Infantry] at the Ejokweni Nek, who reported under date 14/6/06 7.30pm to the effect that he had ocular proof that Bamhata was dead, that three native spies, who were handed over to Sergeant Calverley by Mr Saunders [Mr C R Saunders CMG, the Commissioner for Native Affairs in Natal], proceded on that day to identify Bambata. The spies were (a) Satushukana, brother of Bamhata, brought up from childhood with him, (b) Makwakwane, late of Bambata's tribe, also brought up with him (c) Nongqai [sic] Chief Tulwana.'

The Battle of Mome Gorge, Sunday, 10 June 1906.
(Source: Transvaal Leader Weekly Edition, l6 June 1906).

The Battle of Mome Gorge: Scene on the Nek.
(Photo: By courtesy, Killie Campbell Africana Library).

Capt Bosman, who was aide-de-camp to Col Mckenzie, defends the decapitation of the rebel (1907, p 107):

'It was not possible to convey the body to the camp owing to decomposition and to the almost inaccessible place in which it lay. Accordingly, the head was severed from the trunk and conveyed to the camp, where it was recognised as Bambata's by all those who had been acquainted with him and who were availahle. The exhibition of the head (to be seen by official permit only) undoubtedly had the effect of dispelling the superstition, deep rooted in the mind of the natives, that Bambata was invulnerable. So long as the belief was held that Bambata was alive, waverers would have thrown their lot in with the rebels and, with them, continued the struggle.'

Bosman further states (1907, p 108) that 'Col McKenzie caused the head to be taken back to the Mome bush and placed with the body, which was recently interred on the right bank of the Mome stream,' Interestingly, however, on page 539 of The Nongqai magazine, a photograph depicts a skull mounted on a raised and polished shield with the caption:

'The bottom photograph shows the actual skull of the rebel leader, Chief Bambata, who was slain at the Mome Gorge, and decapitated for identification purposes. His skull is the only relic of a Rebellion which cost the Government 740 000 pounds to suppress.'

In Galloping Jack - The Reminiscences of Brigadier General J R Royston CMG DSO VD,, there is yet another description of the events in Mome Gorge (Devitt, 1937, p 69): The body (Bhambatha's) was found under a bush at the bottom of a small but very steep rocky gorge. Nearby was the rifle Bhambatha was known to have carried. It was not considered feasible to retrieve the body and in his dilemma, Maj Knott (a squadron commander of Royston's Horse) turned to the MO, Maj Henry Platt, for advice. Platt suggested decapitation. The account continues (Devitt, 1937, p 70):

'On reaching the camp, the head was placed upright in Col Royston's enamel wash-basin. Confronted with the evidence, the General [sic] was taken aback and exclaimed: "By God, Royston! This is Bambata. I knew him some years ago... Why didn't they bring the corpse? There'll be a devil of a row about this!"'

Devitt goes on to state (1937, p 71) that Maj Platt, with some 200 mounted men and the 'gruesome pickup', returned to the gorge. With the aid of half a dozen assistants, the corpse was interned in a hastily dug grave.

Despite the convincing arguments that Bhambatha was killed, doubts still linger in the minds of many. The late Mr C T Binns, a highly respected Natal historian, sows the seed of doubt in his magnificent hook entitled Dinuzulu - The Death of the House of Shaka (Longmans, London, 1968). Appendix iX is headed 'Was Bambata killed in the Mome Gorge?' Binns wrote:

'During my field research over Zululand in the course of the last few years, in interviews with various chiefs and headmen I have repeatedly met with the report that Bambata was not killed in the Mome Gorge encounter, but managed to escape, later reaching Lourenço Marques (now Maputo) in safety and living there for some years under an assumed name. Later, when all the trouble had blown over and the nation was calm, Banthata and his family returned to Zululand and hid in the depths of the Ngome Forest, their whereabouts being kept a strict secret and their hiding place closely guarded. Here Bambata died and was buried though the location of his grave is a still maintained secret.'

Men of the Durban Light Infantry stand guard over Bhambatha's body.
(Photo: Transvaal Leader Weekly Edition, 30 June 1906).

Binns interviewed a Zulu named Joseph Nzama in Pietermaritzburg, who had been asked to identify Bhambatha's head. He states (Binns, 1968, p279):

'I was shown the head which Calverley had brought out from the Gorge and asked if I knew who it was. I said it was Bambata's because I had heen told secretly by certain of my friends that I must do this in order to give Bambata the chance to escape. Although the head was something like Bambata's, it most certainly was not his. I am absolutely certain of this because I knew Bambata well.'

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby surinder » 21 Jul 2010 01:48

British used cannons to blow up 60-70 Naamdharis around 1870 or 1880. One Britishe officer left behind the gory description of how the body parts fly and blood and flesh is spewn about. It looks to me like a very messy way to end someone, lots of cleaning later on. This method of killing was undoubtedly chosen for the effect it will have on those living (a terorr tactic).

By the way, a monument still stands in the place this dastardly killing took place. The killing, incidently, proceeded without even a pretense of a trial.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 21 Jul 2010 01:58

Ajatshatru wrote:
^^^ and derived from a Mughal form of punishment, possibly the next evolutionary step from being stamped on by elephants


Two wrongs make a right L'ji?


turks used to bugger their enemies whilst decapitating them, would you like to know more examples of gruesome ways of putting people to death?

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jul 2010 02:00

More on shock and awe about the decapitation and separation of the head and the body of a Muslim -in AFG : the theology itself has no qualms about this!

http://www.meforum.org/713/beheading-in-the-name-of-islam

"The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.[21] Islamic leaders from Muhammad's time until today have followed his model. Examples of decapitation, of both the living and the dead, in Islamic history are myriad. Yusuf b. Tashfin (d. 1106) led the Al-Murabit (Almoravid) Empire to conquer from western Sahara to central Spain. After the battle of Zallaqa in 1086, he had 24,000 corpses of the defeated Castilians beheaded "and piled them up to make a sort of minaret for the muezzins who, standing on the piles of headless cadavers, sang the praises of Allah."[22] He then had the detached heads sent to all the major cities of North Africa and Spain as an example of Christian impotence. The Al-Murabits were conquered the following century by the Al-Muwahhids (Almohads), under whose rule Castilian Christian enemies were beheaded after any lost battles.

The Ottoman Empire was the decapitation state par excellence. Upon the Ottoman victory over Christian Serbs at the battle of Kosovo in 1389, the Muslim army beheaded the Serbian king and scores of Christian prisoners. At the battle of Varna in 1444, the Ottomans beheaded King Ladislaus of Hungary and "put his head at the tip of a long pike … and brandished it toward the Poles and Hungarians." Upon the fall of Constantinople, the Ottomans sent the head of the dead Byzantine emperor on tour to major cities in the sultan's domains. The Ottomans even beheaded at least one Eastern Orthodox patriarch. In 1456, the sultan allowed the grand mufti of the empire to personally decapitate King Stephen of Bosnia and his sons—even though they had surrendered and, seven decades later, the sultan ordered 2,000 Hungarian prisoners beheaded. In the early nineteenth century, even the British fell victim to the Ottoman scimitar. An 1807 British expedition to Egypt resulted in "a few hundred spiked British heads left rotting in the sun outside Rosetta."[23]

Decapitation has also been quite common among Muslims whenever orthodoxy confronts Mahdist movements. According to Islamic tradition, the Mahdi, or "rightly-guided one" will come before the end of time to usher in a worldwide, perfect Islamic state. Every few generations, a charismatic leader emerges claiming to be the Mahdi. Since the Mahdi is the harbinger of just government, then any leader he challenges is by nature corrupt. The fervor of such claims often leads both the orthodoxy and the Mahdists to label the other unbelievers, allowing them to invoke Qur'anic verse 47:3 and behead captives.

A prime example of this occurred 500 years ago in the Gujarati sultanate of western India. Sayyid Muhammad Jawnpuri (d. 1505 C.E.) asserted that he was the Mahdi.[24] His followers, who came to be known as Mahdavis, accused the Gujarati sultans and religious officials of takfir (unbelief). The sultans fought back, often displaying the severed heads of Mahdavi caliphs in order to intimidate would-be followers. The Gujarati brutality served its purpose and, by the end of the sixteenth century, the Mahdavis faded into oblivion.

Perhaps the most famous Mahdist movement—and one of very few to gain power[25]—was that led by Muhammad Ahmad of Sudan in the late nineteenth century. In 1880, Muhammad Ahmad declared himself Mahdi and led jihad against the Ottoman Empire, its Egyptian subjects, and their British allies.[26] He and his followers beheaded opponents, Christian and Muslim alike. This Mahdi's most famous victim was Charles Gordon, a British general in Sudan on behalf of Anglo-Egyptian forces. Rudolf Slatin, an Austrian taken prisoner by the Mahdist army, later described the Mahdists' triumphant reaction to Gordon's execution in January 1885. One historian related how:

Three black [Mahdist] soldiers were in the lead, one of whom he recognized as a man named Shatta. … Shatta was carrying something wrapped in a bloody cloth. Slatin stood silent as they stopped in front of him, their faces triumphant. With a smile, Shatta undid the cloth while the crowd shouted. Slatin looked: it was Gordon's severed head … "Is this not the head of your uncle, the unbeliever?"[27]
[...]

A half century later, in the years after Mustafa Kemal Atatürk founded the Turkish Republic and imposed secular government, a revolutionary religious leader named Mehmet led a short-lived but violent Mahdist revolt.[28] Mehmet was a Sufi—an Islamic mystic—of the Naqshabandi order. Mehmet and his six disciples adopted the identities of the "Seven Sleepers" of the Qur'an: seven Christian youth who fell asleep in a cave during the time of Roman persecution of Christians in the third century C.E. and emerged, unscathed, over a century later when Rome had joined the faith.[29] By such identification, Mehmet and his Mahdist disciples sought to invoke the Qur'anic imagery of the small band of true believers standing against state idolatry. From Manisa, in west-central Turkey, Mehmet and his followers trekked to Menemen on the Aegean coast where, in the main mosque, Mehmet declared himself the Mahdi and called for the reestablishment of Islamic law canceled by Atatürk. Mehmet's enthusiastic supporters overwhelmed the local Turkish army garrison. They killed the commander and put his severed head on a pole and paraded it around town."

See also the same article on standard Islamic theological justification for beheading and separating from the body. Or is it because it is "Gorkha"!!

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 21 Jul 2010 02:02

Lalmohan wrote:
turks used to bugger their enemies whilst decapitating them, would you like to know more examples of gruesome ways of putting people to death?


...and their preferred method - rape and then impaling.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 21 Jul 2010 03:33

Ajatshatru wrote:The logic here being "so what if the Brits were brutal, at least they were less brutal as compared with some others in the past".... :-? (so makes them angels in comparison, eh?)....or the logic here being 'it is not just the Brits who were brutal in the past"?


I think the logic here being argued is "British were brutal in the past and now develop moral problems when an SDRE Gurkha uses the same techniques against Islamists (who also do the same)".

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 21 Jul 2010 03:38

In war, all that is not in the DONTS LIST is in the DOS LIST! The British should go and check their lists!

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby lsunil » 21 Jul 2010 12:00

Google search for "war trophies" or click here

The gurkha soldier was made an example for nothing.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 21 Jul 2010 13:01

Indic civilisational history ~5000 years
British Raj ~200 years
Inability to separate fact from opinion in posts - priceless

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 21 Jul 2010 13:16

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ and derived from a Mughal form of punishment, possibly the next evolutionary step from being stamped on by elephants

the mughals used the same method as well, akbar IIRC.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Atri » 21 Jul 2010 16:09

The traditional Indian method of capital punishment was much more gruesome than decapitating OR even crucifixion. The most popular method was to make one sit on a sharp "Shool". By the body weight, the sharp end of the Shool starts penetrating the anus of the victim (convict). It will slowly penetrate upwards (all by body weight alone) and after few hours, it will finally pierce the heart. The sharp end of the "Shool" will come out of mouth after few hours. The popular term "Sooli pe Chadhaana" refers to this punishment. The body is kept like this for few days so that everyone sees and gets the message.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 21 Jul 2010 16:43

Atri wrote:The popular term "Sooli pe Chadhaana" refers to this punishment.

This is what is known as "Impaling" in King's English.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 21 Jul 2010 16:51

cannons, elephant stampings, impalings.....tch tch....dispiriting to find so much morbidity and necromania on a thread as dedicated to health, happiness, cheer and humanity (esp that of Yindians) as the 'great' britain one. Like I said, tch tch. LOL.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 21 Jul 2010 16:57

now now sachin, hope you're not making excuses for the king?!

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Jul 2010 17:36

Interesting take http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/deannelson/100041632/david-cameron-is-right-to-create-a-special-relationship-with-india-but-will-it-work/ on Cameron's upcoming visit.

I think the point for us Indians to remember (as we keep reminding ourselves all the time) is that there are no permanent enemies or friends. Starting every sentence with a litany of historical injustices is best left to the Pakis. We should not forget what they did but we should also remember why they could do what they did.

Cameron's push for the 'special relationship' serves our current needs. He won't stand in the way of the UNSC seat and his government will smack down the usual Brit- Paki pin pricks on Cashmere because of the trade angle. And it is not just about BAE or defence exports --Indian investment (acquisitions) in the UK and share flotations in the City all help prevent protectionism WRT to BPOs and LPOs and ultimately easier visas for business people.

As to the 'Dilli Billis', sure they are going to lap it up and tickle their inner Englishness'. However, Cameron is taking dead aim at India Inc. and they are not a sentimental lot and it's all about the deal.

In short, they are very open about what they want and it behooves us to tell them exactly what we want. The Brits getting 'closer' to us stampedes the usual idiots in Canada, Oz and NZ onto our side.

JMT

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 21 Jul 2010 17:54

Cosmo_R wrote:I think the point for us Indians to remember (as we keep reminding ourselves all the time) is that there are no permanent enemies or friends. Starting every sentence with a litany of historical injustices is best left to the Pakis. We should not forget what they did but we should also remember why they could do what they did.


Good point. I doubt anyone can or will disagree.

Point also is if you don't respect yourself, nobody else will. A formal apology by HMG for all the crimes committed in India in the name of the crown would be a fitting gesture upon which a relationship of mutual respect could be built.It would suggest that Indian blood spilled in the service of or in rebellion against the crown, even if it was in times past, merits respect not callosness. After all, the UK has apologized to the US (Brown in COTUS) and to PRC already. Or maybe an apology or an expression of regret is too much to expect? It won;t come if we don;t expect it, respect ourselves and our past, demand it. Strictly IMHO, of course.

Cameron's push for the 'special relationship' serves our current needs. He won't stand in the way of the UNSC seat and his government will smack down the usual Brit- Paki pin pricks on Cashmere because of the trade angle.

The UNSC seat won't be coming anytime soon. Not in the UN's lifetime anyway. Keep that aside. As for Brit 'aid' in supporting Indian positions on cashmere and assorted insurgencies, it is a classic case of creating a situation to leverage where none existed previously. It would help to money where mouth is and shut down the kingpins and heads of almost every other insurgency in India currently sheltering, operating and fundraising out of London. But I understand, perhaps that's too much to ask for.

And it is not just about BAE or defence exports --Indian investment (acquisitions) in the UK and share flotations in the City all help prevent protectionism WRT to BPOs and LPOs and ultimately easier visas for business people.

Good.
I fully support doing biz with the brits if its to mutual benefit. But keep them at arms' length. They're not our 'friends', never were. Their supercilious 'shared history' BS needn't be welcome here, either. But we will see that it will be welcomed, nay celebrated, by the dilli billi class(holes) and 'intellectuals'.

Sad only.

/Have a nice day.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 21 Jul 2010 18:15

Hari-ji, you might be surprised to find that i agree with everything you've just said (shock horror!)

i think on closing down anti-india elements, a slow start seems to have been made recently... certainly more things seem to be happening on the khalistani front with recent arrests of fugitives, etc. we must ask for more
no ask, no get (same for maharaja ranjit singh's little gem)

if pakistan was the necessity to safeguard oil supplies and cashmere was the price, within 50 years or less (depending on pakistan's implosion time) as the west changes its dependence on arab oil, the need for pakistan goes away... all other things pakistan and arab related fall to irrelevance

we need to play a long game with the west, the uk may be creating a point of leverage on unkil - we need to exploit it with cool heads

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jul 2010 18:18

why should we celebrate easier "visas" even if it is for the business class? in any case they will put caps on immigration, even in the highly skilled category. So if the "business class" is not really extracting profits from the Brit market, or not reinvesting it back in India to provide home country employment, what interests should the general population have in doing business with the Brits?

If the Brits are indeed so modernized and think that economic interests override such mundane considerations as national pride or prestige, why is it so difficult to advance an apology for the crimes against humanity as well as war crimes that the HM government has carried out on Indians? Or stop being the possessor of stolen and looted goods and jewellery - or even proudly displaying looted wealth? Most kings or queens or monarchs sit upon stolen goods no doubt - but what happens to the legendary British claims of ethics and morals in bedecking their head of state still in stolen items?

It has consequences for economic trust too - for if the brits show that they have changed nothing in their looting mindset, any business initiative cans till lead to suspicion in the common Indian. The last time also they came to do business, and lots of native Indian businessmen were only too eager to do business with them. We all know what was the result for the non-business class Indian. We don't need a regeneration of a comprador capitalist class who will become the collaborators for British imperial and political interests.

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Jul 2010 20:42

brihaspatiji, I am only suggesting that we keep a cool head and deal with Britain on the basis of mutual benefit. The Chinese will and they are not going to rake up the opium wars and such.

If (for example) Vedanta raises money in the UK and funds a uranium mine in Namibia and sells yellow cake to India there is no issue of repatriation of profits or employment in India except downstream in the refining/enrichment and power plant operation. This is just an example of course, but now you have UK shareholders and a constituency in the financial sector (25% of Britain's GDP).

On the issue of looted treasure--certainly we should ask for its return. After all, Britain insists that art stolen by the Nazis should be returned to owners.

But have we asked? Is this the time to ask for return of treasure or an apology for war crimes? Did MMS close the issue by saying the Raj was good?

Or should we wait until we have more leverage and they are dependent on us for 15% of their trade?

It took many years for the US to apologize to Japanese Americans for internment during WWII. And they still have not apologized to African Americans for slavery or for the genocide of Native Americans. Everyone is hoping that Obama's election closed the issue but let's see.

HMG will eventually apologize but that should not be our sine qua non issue at the outset. Even the Oz apologized to the native people.

In the same vein, we should also ask Iran to return the Peacock Throne and the Pakis to return POK. I am being serious. The Chinese would.

IMVHO, played right, we can do to them (the Brits) in high paying jobs what they did to us in manufacturing jobs especially in cotton during the 19th century. Glad to give hotel services jobs in UK at Taj/Oberoi for BPO and LPO jobs coming to India and this is what is happening.

On business visas, you and I may not celebrate them being easier but many jobs in India (as you know) in the tech sector involve travel to implement projects. Multiple entry visas save a whole lot of time. The Brits will grant student visas because their schools need the money. Once trade rises, you'll find that Brits want Indian visas and we can play the same game. I (again personally) don't give hoot about immigration caps. Emigration from India to the UK by skilled people is not in our interests.

All I am saying is keep a cool head and mind our next moves. Again, the Chinese would and we can learn from their game.

JMTC

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Re: Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Postby Abhi_G » 21 Jul 2010 20:52

^^^
You may be surprised but Chinese are extremely aware and sensitive about the Opium wars. And they still consider the lease of Hong Kong to brits with an eye of victimhood (justified), even though Hong Kong has been re-instated back to PRC. In fact there is a twist of India bashing there as well by relating to the usage of british "Indian" army in the opium wars.

Historical injustices can never and should never be forgotten.


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