People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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naren
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

Vashishtha wrote:This news is 1 day old, but just got time today to visit brf.
Revealed: the plot to blow up DragonMart
FYI, Dragon mart is a Chinese mega-mall here in Dubai. This place is literally huge!!! If you are from Mumbai then if you put 5 in-orbit malls back to back, you get one dragon mart. Here you can get everything from Dokia(Nokia) to GL(LG) mobiles and tv's.
Do you get these top quality brands there ?



:rotfl:

PS: you need to close the URL tag in the same line.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Rony »

China: The Impact Of Cross-Strait Reconciliation On India
what could be the impact of cross-strait reconciliations and CBMs on India's security?

Going by the reports, the reconciliation has already made China to up its ante against India. For example on June 11, 2009 the Global Times (English edition) used extremely aggressive and jingoistic terms when it noted that the "Indian politicians seem to think their country would be doing China a huge favor simply by not joining the "ring around China" established by the US and Japan." And that "India's growing power would have a significant impact on the balance of this equation, which has led India to think that fear and gratitude for its restraint will cause China to defer to it on territorial disputes. .. India needs to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China."

Exactly a year later, on June 12, 2010, Han Xudong, Professor with China's National Defense University reiterated in an article published in the Global Times (Chinese edition) that "China must use military force to solve the 'problem'." Professor Han argued that during the Korean War, India-China Boundary War, and the Vietnam War, China used it forces timely and decisively, and finally managed to have the "solution" in China's favor." Implying that on all these occasions, China used its forces in a preemptive manner, so as to thwart an "invasion" from the US, India and Vietnam.

In the wake of the cross-strait reconciliations, China could change the gravity of its southeast arsenal deployment towards southwest. Some of the 1200 DF-11 series; 200 DH-10 and DF-15 series; over 80 DF-21 series equipped with nuclear warhead; and DF-21A series missiles with China's Second Artillery Force (SAF) targeted against Taiwan in Fujian, Jiangxi, Jiangsu, Shandong and Guangdong provinces, could be withdrawn and deployed or stored in the southwest. The reconciliation has already decreased the strategic importance of the SAF; it goes without saying that the CBMs will further diminish its importance as regards the Taiwan. Therefore, in order to maintain and expand the strategic value of the SAF, China will move them southwestward against India in the provinces such as Xinjiang, Tibet, Sichuan and Yunnan.

Secondly, the strategic importance of the SAF has also been replaced by the fourth generation J-10 and J-11 aircrafts of the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) and PLA Navy (PLAN). The monolithic nature of the SAF has been limited by the new capabilities of the PLAAF and PLAN. The deployment of PLAAF, which at present maintains 864 aircrafts in Nanjing, 716 in Guangzhou, and over thousand in Jinan, Beijing, Shenyang and Chengdu could also undergo drastic changes, and move the gravity to southwest areas.

From China's "global war" ambitions, as enunciated by Prof. Han of the China's National Defense University, the PLA is insistently enhancing its combat capabilities for winning the informationized warfare by displaying comprehensive integrated joint operational capabilities in various military exercises. It has established C4ISR doctrine; some says C4I2SR where send I stands for indoctrination; has been continuously improving its precision strike and rapid deployment capabilities by procuring or reverse engineering the requisite hard and software. The support and logistical capabilities have also been greatly improved. Therefore, the question that needs to be pondered by the Indian army and the leadership alike is whether or not there is any strategy in place to deal with the impact of the cross-straits reconciliations, as well as the feverish pace of the PLA modernization?
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

Rony wrote:China: The Impact Of Cross-Strait Reconciliation On India
"India's growing power would have a significant impact on the balance of this equation, which has led India to think that fear and gratitude for its restraint will cause China to defer to it on territorial disputes. .. India needs to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China."
...
Professor Han argued that during the Korean War, India-China Boundary War, and the Vietnam War, China used it forces timely and decisively, and finally managed to have the "solution" in China's favor." Implying that on all these occasions, China used its forces in a preemptive manner, so as to thwart an "invasion" from the US, India and Vietnam.
In the event of war, if India manages to knock out all the Cheeni ports, their export dependent economy will be crippled for decades. => Internal destabilization => possible dissolution of PRC or dethronement of CPC.

So yeah, bring it on bliadhels, lets see what you got. :twisted:
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by sourab_c »

naren wrote: In the event of war, if India manages to knock out all the Cheeni ports, their export dependent economy will be crippled for decades. => Internal destabilization => possible dissolution of PRC or dethronement of CPC.

So yeah, bring it on bliadhels, lets see what you got. :twisted:

Do not expect anything more than a temporary blockade at the Malacca straits as far as knocking out the Chinese exports is concerned in the event of a war. Without permanent blue water fleets established in the Pacific, it is really hard to do that with missiles alone considering the number of S-300s PLA deploys at such strategic locations.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by DavidD »

sourab_c wrote:
naren wrote: In the event of war, if India manages to knock out all the Cheeni ports, their export dependent economy will be crippled for decades. => Internal destabilization => possible dissolution of PRC or dethronement of CPC.

So yeah, bring it on bliadhels, lets see what you got. :twisted:

Do not expect anything more than a temporary blockade at the Malacca straits as far as knocking out the Chinese exports is concerned in the event of a war. Without permanent blue water fleets established in the Pacific, it is really hard to do that with missiles alone considering the number of S-300s PLA deploys at such strategic locations.
Even a temporary blockade will hurt, which is why China isn't gonna look for a fight any time soon. For great nations like China, India, the U.S., etc. it's better to look at them as logical entities rather than some inherently "good" or "evil" beings.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Nihat »

China cannot afford a naval confrontation with India as even a temporary blockade will create permanent suspicion on India's side and will put in serious jeopardy the sole transit route for China's growing energy needs, it's neo-colonization of Africa, access to Iran and Pakistan (via Gwadar), to avoid this the PLAN will have to permanently deploy subs and surface ships in IOR in large numbers which not only gives an oppurtunity to IN to gather vital intelligence on Chinese hardwards but also forces china to lessen it's deployment around Taiwan (so called renegade province) , Japan (disputed islands) , South Korea (US puppet) , not to mention it will hamper their plans for any future deployment near US shores as US has near china for years now.

So, even though china could try territorial adventures via Land against India, it would never consider a naval confrontation as they have too much to loose in the long term and that too against a Navy which has multiple CBG led blue water ambitions.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by jagga »

Why the Foreign Secretary met the Dalai Lama
B Raman glances at the foreign secretary's visit to Dharamsala to meet the Dalai Lama against the backdrop of China's recent actions vis-a-vis Pakistan.
Nirupama Rao, India's foreign secretary, arrived in Dharamsala in Himachal Pradesh on July 10 and called on His Holiness the Dalai Lama. She was reportedly with him for about an hour.

His Holiness lives in Dharamsala, where his Tibetan-government-in-exile is located. Senior advisors of His Holiness, including his Prime Minister Samdhong Rinpoche, were reportedly present during the meeting.

According to local sources, the welfare of the Tibetan exiles living in India and the adequacy of the physical security arrangements for His Holiness were among the subjects discussed
Our policy-makers should also examine what options are available to India to counter the Chinese actions.Upgrading the interactions with His Holiness is one option. Establishing open contacts with the secular Uighur elements of the Munich-based World Uighur Congress is another option.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Suraj »

Just an increase in temperatures, much less a shooting war, would reveal the extent of damage or interference any war can cause to the Chinese trade network. The nature of such a network is that a ripple causes a cascade of potentially unexpected difficulties - not just a delayed ship, but a cascade of problems - broken currency options deals used to pay for the goods, as one far reaching example.

Putting myself in the Chinese position, where my national priority is pedal to the metal economic growth, I would not want anyone to even know just how much of a blowback such a blockage or constraint would have on Chinese economic activity. For them to know would be giving them leverage of that information; they can then always 'threaten to raise temperatures' when they know the temperature that causes me to sweat. Ergo I would do my level best to ensure any action against India is restrained and solely via the sock puppet.

Both nations have similar imperatives at this point - the critical desire to hurriedly get rich before you get old. More so for China.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by RamaY »

^

However there are two issues that PRC need to come to terms on before India can leave PRC scottfree are

- PRC's support to TSP
- Status of Tibet and diversion of Indo-Tibetan rivers.

One approach could be PRC declares that

- no economic, military, and political support to TSP that would hurt India in anyway.
- postponement of all Tibetan-bound project till the issue of Tibetan autonomy is settled to the complete satisfaction of Tibet
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by DavidD »

Suraj wrote:Just an increase in temperatures, much less a shooting war, would reveal the extent of damage or interference any war can cause to the Chinese trade network. The nature of such a network is that a ripple causes a cascade of potentially unexpected difficulties - not just a delayed ship, but a cascade of problems - broken currency options deals used to pay for the goods, as one far reaching example.

Putting myself in the Chinese position, where my national priority is pedal to the metal economic growth, I would not want anyone to even know just how much of a blowback such a blockage or constraint would have on Chinese economic activity. For them to know would be giving them leverage of that information; they can then always 'threaten to raise temperatures' when they know the temperature that causes me to sweat. Ergo I would do my level best to ensure any action against India is restrained and solely via the sock puppet.

Both nations have similar imperatives at this point - the critical desire to hurriedly get rich before you get old. More so for China.
That's pretty much correct, China doesn't want anything to disturb the stability that is necessary for its economic growth. As you said, India is interested or at least should be interested in the same thing, so I don't see a conflict any time soon.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by ramana »

The unstated assumptions in your two requirements are:

1. PRC is the sole supporter of TSP. Its the West that supports TSP materially and politically. The PRC uses the exisiting TSP animosity towards India. The inference is that removal of PRC support to TSP wont collapse it. Might weaken it but not by much.

2. PRC's current regime will go away like the FSU. Not likely. Most probable one is a transformed but still nationalistic regime takes over in China. A strong center is needed in China. And such a regime will not let go of Tibet once its in their kabza.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by harbans »

Just an increase in temperatures, much less a shooting war, would reveal the extent of damage or interference any war can cause to the Chinese trade network. The nature of such a network is that a ripple causes a cascade of potentially unexpected difficulties - not just a delayed ship, but a cascade of problems - broken currency options deals used to pay for the goods, as one far reaching example.

Suraj ji, thats right and the Chinese understand it too well. However what if the Chinese authorities have figures showing their economy is well into collapse mode and nothing can prevent that from happening. In those circumstances it would be preferable to the hawkish elements amongst the PRC to try and go into a war economy mode..that way they can blame the "coming inevitable economic collapse" to Indian aggressive postures. Or best scenario if they do manage access to Indian resources or land, come out as an undisputed power in Asia for a long long time.

Putting myself in the Chinese position, where my national priority is pedal to the metal economic growth, I would not want anyone to even know just how much of a blowback such a blockage or constraint would have on Chinese economic activity.


Proves that the Chinese leadership may go to any extent to shift blame in case things are really bad on the economic front.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by RamaY »

Ramanaji,

(1) Pakistan
You are right on TSP's promoters. If CHINA does what it has to do, TSP will be left with 2.5 friends onlee. The objective gestures could be -
- Economic unwinding of all CHINA projects in POK and TSP proper
- Sealing of KKH
- unwinding of CHINA nuclear investments in TSP
- Hand over Aksai-Chin to India

(2) Tibet
On Tibet India's value scale is
Tibet as part of India > Independent Tibet as a buffer state between CHINA & India > Autonomous Tibet as part of China > semi-Autonomous Tibet as part of China > Tibet as part of China

India will be more than willing to meet CHINA at half way!

(3) Myanmar
- Accepting Myanmar as part of pre-colonial India and acceptance of India's influence in this area.
- Aligning with Indian Interests in Myanmar

The next question would be what CHINA will get in return
- Peace of mind to focus on its internal consolidation and development (This itself could result in $T economic return for China)
- A strategic partner in its western border (1/3 of its borders are safe from aggression)
- Secured sea-lines-of-communication in IOR region (Secured IOR SLC)
- Support for China in establishing its buddhist civilizational dominance in East-Asia (Civilizational security/growth)
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Carl_T »

The Cold War was scary enough. Now try to imagine a nuclear arms race between China and India.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... k_about_it
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by RamaY »

^
Both India and China are building their nuclear arsenals commensurate to their security and geopolitical imperatives. That exactly what USA and USSR have done in the past.

If USA/USSR didn't resort to nuclear Armageddon, India and China certainly will not resort to it.

Since USA already defeated Russia in its cold war, they must completely disarm all their nuclear warheads.

Once that is done PRC and India will step down once their security environment improves and nuclear weapons become undesirable.

FP article is nothing but fear mongering and a bunch of lies.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by AnimeshP »

Apologies if posted earlier ...
Crime control - PRC style
Beijing starts gating, locking migrant villages
The government calls it "sealed management." China's capital has started gating and locking some of its lower-income neighborhoods overnight, with police or security checking identification papers around the clock, in a throwback to an older style of control.
It's Beijing's latest effort to reduce rising crime often blamed on the millions of rural Chinese migrating to cities for work. The capital's Communist Party secretary wants the approach promoted citywide. But some state media and experts say the move not only looks bad but imposes another layer of control on the already stigmatized, vulnerable migrants.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

^ Nazis
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by VinodTK »

New Delhi plays the Tibet card
Other analysts believe New Delhi wants to play the Tibet card to kill two birds with one stone: a goodwill gesture to tone down the Dalai Lama's anti-Beijing rhetoric, and leverage in negotiations with China on sensitive issues.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

China denies visa to J&K-born Doctor
China has reportedly denied visa to noted cardiologist U. Kaul, a Padma Shri awardee, and four others born in Jammu and Kashmir. Dr. Kaul was to travel to Beijing for a conference on cardiology and chaired it four days ago.

Dr. Kaul, who had been to China four times, was surprised at the denial of visa to him and the four others. He said no reason was given for the visa rejection.

However, another doctor, who is of Kashmiri origin but born outside the State, was given visa for the same conference.

A Chinese Embassy spokesman said he could not comment on these cases immediately due to absence of details. However, there was no change in the Chinese policy of issuing stapled visas to those born in Jammu and Kashmir, he said.

For the last couple of years, the Chinese Embassy has been stapling visas in separate sheets to applicants from J&K and Arunachal Pradesh. For people of all other Indian states, it pastes the document on the passport as is the norm.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Raghavendra »

China boomtown migrants sorely underpaid, survey says
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100719/7 ... der_1.html
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Ameet »

China vows to stop restaurant reuse of cooking oil

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_china_gutter_oil

Chinese call it "gutter oil" — a foul slop fished up from sewage drains or collected at restaurant back doors — and it's being used widely in the country's eateries.

Recycled food oil is China's latest food-safety scandal that has worried consumers and brought fresh promises of government action.

barrels of food waste and oil being carted out of big restaurants and hotels in the capital nightly.

"The waste is usually held in filthy round metal barrels, each containing about 25 kilograms (55 pounds)," Qin said. The peddlers who collect it take it away on bicycle carts and are usually paid several hundred yuan (tens of dollars) a month for the service, he said. They filter the waste into slop for pigs and oil that is resold, Qin said.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Sanjay M »

China police 'mistakenly beat boss's wife'

Three Chinese police officers have been disciplined for beating up the wife of a senior local official.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

This is just "brilliant".. cloning an open source OS. Oooh nobody ever thought of that :P [/s]
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Karan Dixit »

ramana wrote:
2. PRC's current regime will go away like the FSU. Not likely. Most probable one is a transformed but still nationalistic regime takes over in China. A strong center is needed in China. And such a regime will not let go of Tibet once its in their kabza.
Then, there can be no peace with China.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Jarita »

Somewhat politically incorrect write-up but has good nuggets about China

http://truecongresspolitics.wordpress.c ... esilience/
As the Western and Corporate powers conquered the world they destroyed any and all Indigenous based power structures they encountered. India survived this onslaught due its vast population and vibrant culture. China was conquered and basically sterilized by the British agent Mao. India ‘s is currently reeling under the onslaught of these same Maoist forces in a silent war that has killed thousands.
On November 10, Nixon instructed Kissinger to ask the Chinese to move some troops toward the Indian frontier. ‘Threaten to move forces or move them, Henry, that’s what they must do now.’ This was conveyed to Huang Hua , China ‘s envoy to the United Nations. Kissinger told Huang the US would be prepared for a military confrontation with the Soviet Union if the Soviet Union attacked China .” 1971 War: How the US tried to corner India by Claude Arpi
Some have also theorized that Kennedy had countermanded the British demands to let India fall to China during its 1962 invasion. However Kennedy sent weapons and assistance to India further angering the powers in London .
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Sanjay M »

Pollution makes quarter of China water unusable: ministry
(Reuters) - Almost a quarter of China's surface water remains so polluted that it is unfit even for industrial use, while less than half of total supplies are drinkable, data from the environment watchdog showed on Monday.
When we talk about future water wars in "SouthAsia" we may mainly think of India-Pakistan-Bangladesh, but the fact is that China is increasingly going to be making a grab for water that flows into the subcontinent, having poisoned its own supplies through unchecked breakneck industrialization.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by derkonig »

Gurus here, northern China is under desertification & a good chunk of PRC lives along the coastal belt. These regions are anyway far off from the Tibetan plateau, so how feasible is this water diversion scheme of theirs. Would they simply divert the water from the Tibetan plateau into the (polluted) rivers draining the S.China coast & East Coast or would they prefer to build canals to take the water to the areas facing the maximum shortage (and in the process create GDP boosting white elephants ala high speed rail)?
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by derkonig »

Chinese want Tibetan style weddings. Now is this some PRC ploy to inject more hans into Tibet & pass off the remaining Tibetan culture as pindigenous to PRC or is the Chini aam aadmi flocking to Tibet to escape the evil & spiritual darkness that is the PRC heartland?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 226318.cms

Meanwhile, another peaceful day in the grolious wolkels paladise
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 226319.cms
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

derkonig wrote:Chinese want Tibetan style weddings. Now is this some PRC ploy to inject more hans into Tibet & pass off the remaining Tibetan culture as pindigenous to PRC or is the Chini aam aadmi flocking to Tibet to escape the evil & spiritual darkness that is the PRC heartland?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 226318.cms
May be Tibet == Las Vegas of Cheena ? :-?

I'd say the latter. PRC wouldn't encourage the "unique" Tibetan culture in any way.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by AdityaM »

Cantonese in China protest over language loss fears

http://in.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/A ... 2420100726
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

India protests to China over its proposed road & rail link with Pakistan
“India has clearly conveyed to China its consistent position that Pakistan was in illegal occupation of parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1947 following reports that China was building a rail line and highway in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir,” the United News of India quoted Mr Krishna as telling the Rajya Sabha.

Mr Krishna’s written statement came in response to questions by deputies. He said that India had conveyed its concern to China and asked it to cease such activities.

China was regarding Kashmir as a bilateral matter to be settled between India and Pakistan, Mr Krishna said while answering the questions.

He said the government had seen reports to the effect that China was seeking to build a railway line and highway projects in PoK, New Delhi’s name for Azad Kashmir, and it had taken up the issue with them.

The government would keep a constant vigil on all developments having a bearing on India’s national interest and take all necessary measures to safeguard it, UNI quoted the minister as saying.

Answering a related question, Mr Krishna said India had taken up the reports of China building a dam on the upper reaches of Tsangpo/ Brahmaputra, known as Tsangpo in Tibet, with China during his visit to Beijing in April.

China had conveyed that it always had shown a responsible attitude towards trans-border rivers. The Chinese foreign minister had also clarified that the planned construction at Zangmu was that of a small power project and it would not store water or regulate the volume of water.

It, therefore, would not have any adverse impact on downstream flows, he added.

Mr Krishna said the two countries had established an expert-level mechanism to discuss cooperation on all issues regarding trans-bor-der rivers and it had held four meetings between September 2007 and April 2010.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Raghavendra »

Taiwanese wary about China amid warming ties
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_ ... Fpd2FuZXNl
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by DavidD »

Great read regarding the social climate of China:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... china_2013
The novel, first published in Hong Kong in late 2009, caused quite a stir on Chinese websites early this year. For instance, Hecaitou, one of the most influential bloggers in the country, wrote in January that the book "once and for fall settles the majority of Internet quarrels" on what China's tomorrow will be like. At the time, the book was only available in Hong Kong. But after interest grew apace in Chinese cyberspace, the author himself "pirated" his rights from his own publisher in Hong Kong to let Chinese mainlanders read it online for free. Since February, numerous digital versions of the novel have circulated and sparked heated discussions on the Chinese Internet.
Economically and culturally, the China of today looks entirely unrecognizable from that of previous decades -- with new skyscrapers, shopping malls, and airports. Still, political censorship and restrictions on freedom of speech continue. "Newspeak" style journalism is far more common than independent voices. Writers are still being indicted for their words. In February, a Chengdu writer, Tan Zuoren, was sentenced to five years in prison for an essay about his personal experience during the June 4 massacre. China 2013 was fortunate to be published in Hong Kong, where the press enjoys greater freedom than in mainland China, due to the "one country, two systems" policy.
As the novel's plot unfolds, on the day that marks the beginning of an unprecedented world-wide economic crisis, the U.S. dollar falls by one-third. The same day, China officially enters what its leaders call "the prosperous time." Every Chinese person accepts this happy coincidence, except for two men and a woman. The three remember events differently: They believe that a month, somehow been lost from public memory, separates these two events. And they set out to recover memories of that lost month.
.....
The most surprising turn in the plot is that, as the reader eventually discovers, the public's selective memory loss turns out not to have been induced by the government. It is a voluntary memory loss. This unexpected twist is a brilliant stroke from the author; it provokes hard questions not only about the government but about popular complacency in China. Equally sharp and biting is the author's portrait of China's intellectual elite indulging in the carefree "prosperous time," willingly letting go of the unpleasant past and their critical spirit.

The book's author has said that the novel is essentially more "realism" than science fiction. Its ending is pessimistic.

When the truth seekers interrogate He Dongsheng, the Politburo member, they lose control of the conversation, which effectively becomes a monologue by the official. The interrogators can muster only feeble rebuttals to his claim that "the one-party capitalist-socialist autocracy is today's China's best option." The novel evokes the dark side of the one-party autocracy, yet its heroes seem to be overwhelmed by He's eloquent policy speech.

This might well be the novel's message: Paradoxically, it's the Chinese public's aversion to political upheavals and desire for a better economic life that enables the government to operate with impunity.
I think this article, especially the last sentence, sums up the Chinese people's attitude pretty well. Their desire for economic prosperity trumps their desire for greater political freedom, and they typically accept or even endorse the authoritarian behavior of the government so nothing would disturb their path toward greater riches. Chinese people know full well the amount of propaganda they're subject to, they understand exactly how much human right abuse is committed by the CCP, and they simply don't care. Those of you who've read some of my posts would probably think, rightly, that I often feel the same way. This seems...horrifying, yet the Chinese people also seem happy. I think it begs the question: what truly is important in life?
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Rony »

Excellent point DavidD. I have arguing with my friends for years about the futility to distingiush between the Chinese people and their totalitarian govt.There are some naive people who think that if democracy comes to china or CCP gets toppled, China will see reason and India and China relations will improve.That is only wishful thinking. The chinese people wholly supports the oppression which their govt indulges in whether in Tibet, Xinjiang or Inner Mongolia. Even if CCP goes, Chinese people will still continue to show hostility towards India. Check out the "democratic" komintang pre-49 maps of China.It includes all the areas from tibet to mongolia to Arunachal.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by RamaY »

DavidD wrote: I think this article, especially the last sentence, sums up the Chinese people's attitude pretty well. Their desire for economic prosperity trumps their desire for greater political freedom, and they typically accept or even endorse the authoritarian behavior of the government so nothing would disturb their path toward greater riches. Chinese people know full well the amount of propaganda they're subject to, they understand exactly how much human right abuse is committed by the CCP, and they simply don't care. Those of you who've read some of my posts would probably think, rightly, that I often feel the same way. This seems...horrifying, yet the Chinese people also seem happy. I think it begs the question: what truly is important in life?
A neat definition of materialism. The world has seen the impact of a society's (west) penchant for materialism - It brought colonialism, two world-wars, and current economic crisis. This was achieved by <500 million population.

Imagine the impact on this world, when a 1.5 billion strong Chinese society tries to tread this path.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

DavidD wrote:I think this article, especially the last sentence, sums up the Chinese people's attitude pretty well. Their desire for economic prosperity trumps their desire for greater political freedom, and they typically accept or even endorse the authoritarian behavior of the government so nothing would disturb their path toward greater riches. Chinese people know full well the amount of propaganda they're subject to, they understand exactly how much human right abuse is committed by the CCP, and they simply don't care. Those of you who've read some of my posts would probably think, rightly, that I often feel the same way. This seems...horrifying, yet the Chinese people also seem happy. I think it begs the question: what truly is important in life?
Oh so beautifully put.

1. 90,000 people demonstrate every year, official stats. But we can conclude that people are very happy. All they want is their economic prosperity.

2. Secret prisons, forced prisoner labour (or modern day slavery as some evil democracy-ists might call), organ harvesting can be safely ignored, because the people are very happy.

3. 91% of Multi-millionaires in China are offspring of Communist Party Elite. People are very happy with this "fair" system.

4. Crackdown on the internet content: Because people are very happy, they are okay with that.

5. One child policy is the greatest policy ever invented. People are so happy, that they would happily drown their extra babies to death. The great people's republic has "prevented" 400 million births (some evil democracy-ists would interpret as "drowning 400 million babies to death"). People are okay with that because their desire for economic prosperity trumps their desire for greater political freedom, and they typically accept or even endorse the authoritarian behavior of the government so nothing would disturb their path toward greater riches.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

Plesenting Chailman Mao's Paladise in technicorol (3 Parts)

Rural China "Children Left Behind" Documentary

UNICEF Awarded "Children Left Behind" in Rural China Documentary

"They have parents, but they live very lonely lives. They eat alone, they play alone."

Producer: Catherine Lee Yuk San

"Children Left Behind", a 30-minute documentary, chronicles the lives of children who are "left behind" in the villages of rural China, when their parents migrate to urban areas in search of work.

As part of China's economic boom, it is estimated that over 120 million rural migrants have moved to urban areas to work in factories and construction. A new phenomenon in China, the number of children "left behind" is now estimated to be over 22 million. Although it is their basic right to have their parent's love, concern and care, in reality you can see that they live like an orphan.

For more info, visit Link
I felt very sad after watching this. 14 year old blaming his past karma for his situation, something's really wrong there. :(

Our resident propagandists talking about how "happy" the Chinese are, well, what can you say. I know one thing for sure. I wouldn't feel sorry in future when the govt types get shot in public (as shown in the movie "To Live").
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