J & K news and discussion

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 04 Aug 2010 11:51

it will fizzle out.

it always does.

don't give them a penny. once the work culture returns, they will have no time for stone pelting.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Aug 2010 11:58

joshvajohn wrote:Angst in Kashmir is 'different' this time, say Kashmiris

In the Hindustan Times report this statement gets the cake..
I don't think there is anything new in it (current situation). We are suffering and are ready to suffer more if it brings an end to the suffering Kashmiri Muslims have been encountering since generations

The 'sufferings' of freeloaders never end, does it? Want special status, eat up other honest tax paying citizen's money, break into riots at a drop of a hat. Man.. this is suffering indeed. I feel we need to have a nation-wide campaign to call the bluff of these Kashmiri sufferers (i.e freeloading, incompetent, lazy group of people).

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 04 Aug 2010 12:06

^^^ As I mentioned, they get freebies for this BS and so they do it more hoping for more freebies. The solution is simple. Just cut off the freebies. Once there is no economic benefits to being a violent bum rioting in the steets, a wonderful thing will happen - a work culture will spring up. Then there will be no time for riots.

Idle hands are the work of the devil.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 04 Aug 2010 12:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:Dispatch: the politics of policing Kashmir

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... ng_kashmir

Good article and actually sympathetic towards the Indian side.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 04 Aug 2010 13:07

There is no need for shoot-at-sight etc but the louts have been treated for far too long with kid-gloves.

There have been goons going around on motorcycles threatening shopkeepers and the police have stood by silently. The proper thing would be to throw the louts into jail, for hard labour and re-education.

The ringleaders, however, should be dealt with severely.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 04 Aug 2010 13:22

Yet again Intelligence failure!
We know that Cameron was arriving in India, Kiyani will get busy as Khan and Queen Dom are the biggest contributors to TSP monetarily and moral solidarity.

Its natural that TSP ferment some trouble during the visit all the more since Cameron said terror is being exported so TSP had show its all local and Indians only…..

Besides our GOI itself has encouraged the royal family of Abdullah’s instead of the real royalty of Karan Singh kith and kin….

90 % of India’s problems are self inflicted wontedly and ignorantly.
This shall also pass

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 04 Aug 2010 18:06

Neshant

As I mentioned, they get freebies for this BS and so they do it more hoping for more freebies. The solution is simple. Just cut off the freebies. Once there is no economic benefits to being a violent bum rioting in the steets, a wonderful thing will happen - a work culture will spring up. Then there will be no time for riots.

Idle hands are the work of the devil.

This is a very good point. This is what is essential all over India. no freebies but make people to work except that they are not capable of doing anything such as differently abled and so on. If not it will be good to make people to work, earn and live peacefully rather throw stones and get gun shots.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Aug 2010 19:51

PIB
Home Minister’s Statement in Parliament on Jammu & Kashmir

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Aug 2010 00:06

On my initial reading of this, I thought its the usual ultra sekoolar, WKK, RNI claptrap, but it does get better as you read along.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Aug 2010 00:58

Militants were among mass protesters in Kashmir: Chidambaram

'There have been instances where the security forces have been fired upon by someone in the protesting crowds. There is reliable intelligence that some armed militants may have mingled with the crowds and fired at the security forces,' he said in a statement in the Lok Sabha on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir.

Chidambaram said there were 872 stone pelting incidents in June and July and 1,266 security personnel were injured in the last two months.

These nuggets are not getting much coverage.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Aug 2010 01:55

I am sure "see i yaa" and "yem i phi" etc know the game that is going on the valley, but should they reveal it, TSP will go into such a tizzy that their temper tantrums post Cameron will look like baby cries for milk

.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Aug 2010 02:20

“National Conference offered me political space” -- Geelani

http://www.hindu.com/2010/08/05/stories ... 401400.htm

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Aug 2010 02:27

Hurriyat hawk talks peace, raises hope in Kashmir

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 258747.cms

But Omar’s efforts to buy peace with Geelani were muddied somewhat, with reports that POK-based Hizbul Mujahideen leader Syed Salahuddin had addressed over mobile phone a massive gathering in a village just outside Srinagar.

It happened while the Hurriyat leader was holding his press conference, creating a confusing asymmetry. There was Geelani appealing for peaceful protests while the voice on the mobile phone, relayed to the crowd over megaphones, stirred the pot and urged people to flood the streets in large numbers because victory was near. There was no confirmation whether it was indeed Salahuddin but Srinagar was buzzing with rumours all the same.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Aug 2010 06:01

victory was near

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Aug 2010 06:20

There was no confirmation whether it was indeed Salahuddin but Srinagar was buzzing with rumours all the same.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Aug 2010 07:42

Hands tied, say angry cops, slam rights chief’s ‘outrage’

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Hands ... ge-/656203

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Aug 2010 08:11

Muppalla wrote:UN chief K-talk has India worried

abhishek_sharma wrote:From MEA's website

Gratuitous Remarks on J&K attributed to UNSG

krisna wrote:http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/ ... remark.htm

The role of the Pakistani-origin spokesperson of United Nations secretary General Ban Ki-Moon has come under scanner with the denial of the UN chief's controversial remarks on Kashmir by his office.

sunnyP wrote:Pakis speak:
Qureshi said the statement by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon expressing "concern at the prevailing security situation"
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-must-e ... ml?from=tn

joshvajohn wrote:India attacks UN call for Kashmir calm
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf46f938-9f00 ... abdc0.html

krithivas wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^
The UN General Secretary has denied making any statement. His spokesperson is a Pakisatani. Yet another Tactically brilliant, Strategically Stupid move.

All this because a Pakistani concocted UN Secretary General's J&K remark. It appears that it was a coordinated attack by the Tag team of Farhan Haq and the Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi as the latter immediately latched on to the fake statement before the 'window of opportunity' would slip away, which he knew it would.

It was a day for dealing with fake e-mails for the external affairs ministry. If the one sent by the high commission in London was alleged to have been tampered by someone in the Commonwealth Organising Committee’s office, there was some comfort for the Centre in the second forgery case.

It is now believed that the e-mail statement, purportedly written by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon, may have been the handiwork of a Pakistani-origin spokesperson.

This assumption comes after the UN chief’s controversial remarks on Kashmir was denied by his office. Spokesperson Farhan Haq had e-mailed a statement to journalists at the UN headquarters in New York last week, stating that Mr Ban “is concerned over the prevailing security situation in Kashmir.”

Mr Haq went on to say that the Secretary General called on “all concerned to exercise utmost restraint and address problems peacefully.”

India promptly took up the matter through its UN mission as the remarks were a departure from norms. According to a statement by the external affairs ministry here on Tuesday, Mr Ban’s office has clarified that no question about Kashmir was raised at any press conference “nor was any such comment made by the UN Secretary General.”

This denial also applies to another part of Mr Haq’s statement which talked about the Secretary-General’s backing the resumption of composite dialogue between Indian and Pakistan which New Delhi does not favour unless Islamabad addresses the issue of terrorism.

The denial flies in the face of Mr Haq’s statement which said, “he (Mr Ban) encourages both sides to rekindle the spirit of composite dialogue which was initiated in 2004 and had made encouraging progress on some important confidence building measures, and to make renewed efforts to address outstanding issues, including on Jammu and Kashmir.”

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Aug 2010 08:57

Naiveté in Srinagar
-Vikram Sood

Had Geelanis and MMs been put to their designated place the rot could have contained to a large extent but why blame the GOI when even an alleged right wing forum like ours has worthies who think Geelani works for GOI or RAW , M@##^*(*.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Aug 2010 09:59

This American who once famously claimed that the Taliban never asked the Hindus/Sikhs in Afghanistan to wear yellow arm bands, says that all that Kashmiris need is justice from India

Ever since the current phase of disturbances began, intelligence officials have been wasting precious time convincing the leadership and public of India that the protests are solely or mostly the handiwork of agent provocateurs. So we have been told of the role of the Lashkar-e-Taiba and ISI, of the ‘daily wage of Rs. 200' — and even narcotics — being given to stone pelters. A few weeks back, an audio recording of a supposedly incriminating telephone call was leaked to the media along with a misleading transcript suggesting the Geelani faction of the Hurriyat was behind the upsurge. Now, our TV channels have “learned” from their “sources” that the protests will continue till President Obama's visit in November.

In the face of this mass upsurge, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has two options. He can declare, like the party apparatchiks in Brecht's poem, that since the people have thrown away the confidence of the government, it is time for the government to dissolve the people and elect another. Or he can admit, without prevarication or equivocation, that his government has thrown away the confidence of the ordinary Kashmiri.

And at the root of that confidence is Pathribal, the notorious fake encounter of 2000. The army officers involved in the kidnapping and murder of five Kashmiri civilians there continue to be at liberty despite being charge-sheeted by the CBI. The Ministry of Defence has refused to grant sanction for their prosecution and has taken the matter all the way to the Supreme Court in an effort to ensure its men do not face trial. What was the message that went out as a result? {The message here is that the Pathribal operation was a joint Rashtriya Rifles - J&K Police operation and the RR was tipped off by the J&K Police of the presence of these five foreign terrorists. The orders for the operation came from the then Anantnag SSP, Farooq Khan. After the encounter, the Kashmir Police claimed that the five terrorists responsible for the murder of 35 Sikhs at Chottisinghpura had been eliminated. The Anantnag Police gave graphic details of the encounter to the then Home Minister, L.K. Advani. It was not as though a trigger-happy RR simply dragged the first five Kashmiris it saw on the road, to a secluded place and shot them dead}

Manmohan Singh must take bold steps to demonstrate his willingness to address the grievances of ordinary Kashmiris. He should not insult their sentiments by talking of economic packages, roundtable conferences and all-party talks. He should unreservedly express regret for the deaths that have occurred these past few weeks. He should admit, in frankness and humility, the Indian state's failure to deliver justice all these years. And he should ask the people of Kashmir for a chance to make amends. There is still no guarantee the lava of public anger which is flowing will cool. But if he doesn't make an all-out effort to create some political space today, there is no telling where the next eruption in the valley will take us.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 05 Aug 2010 10:15

It would be interesting to take an article written by the yellow propagandists of the Nandigram rapist goons on Tibet and do a little search and replace - Find Tibet, replace with Kashmir. Find Beijing, replace with Delhi. Find 'ordinary kashmiris' and replace with 'splittists', terrorists violent mobs and so on...

MMS should make it clear to Kashmiris that every inch of that land is India. It is for them to decide if they will be citizens of this great country and draw the benefits and participate in its democracy or swallow their inner-Pakistaniyat in which case they can apply for 1 way ticket to TSp or to embrace their 72s.

farazh · Post by **farazh** » 05 Aug 2010 10:40

Suppiah wrote: MMS should make it clear to Kashmiris that every inch of that land is India. It is for them to decide if they will be citizens of this great country and draw the benefits and participate in its democracy or swallow their inner-Pakistaniyat in which case they can apply for 1 way ticket to TSp or to embrace their 72s.

Muslims in the valley feel only they are "Kashmiris" and the entire country goes along with this hijacking of the term. They are mollycoddled enough that they believe that they have a have a veto over what everyone else in the state wants.

Most of J&K state already feels (and wants to remain) part of India, but they are never heard in media.

One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?

munna · Post by **munna** » 05 Aug 2010 10:47

farazh wrote:One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?

A brave girl gives 'azadi' to loonies

Kashmiri girl Rukhsana Kausar, who shot into limelight after killing a Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorist, today demanded a permanent government job, ideally in a paramilitary force, and said she should be shifted out of her home district of Rajouri in view of the threat to her family.

Hope this answers a few queries.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 05 Aug 2010 11:07

One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?

No , they don't- I have never heard of any pro-seperatist call from Jammu or Laddakh region of the state. Which is why I don't always understand why Jammu, Kashmir and Laddakh are one state.

Clearly , we are impeding the development of the other regions by pampering Kashmir region and ingnoring the other two.

Let Kashmir be a seperate state so that we can isolate the problem. Jammu is Hindu and Sikh Majority and Laddakh is Buddhist majority. Why should they suffer because of Kashmir.

The Rs. 10k crore grants that go to the state should be better split between 3 states. Jammu and Laddalh can really prosper without Article 370 and AFSPA , which is rather un-necessary in the region. It could be a message to the people of Kashmir that peace would bring prosperity and mindless violence will attract more violence.

In this context, this article is a must read

Jammu & Kashmir: Is Trifurcation a Viable Solution?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 05 Aug 2010 11:18

farazh wrote:
Suppiah wrote: MMS should make it clear to Kashmiris that every inch of that land is India. It is for them to decide if they will be citizens of this great country and draw the benefits and participate in its democracy or swallow their inner-Pakistaniyat in which case they can apply for 1 way ticket to TSp or to embrace their 72s.
Muslims in the valley feel only they are "Kashmiris" and the entire country goes along with this hijacking of the term. They are mollycoddled enough that they believe that they have a have a veto over what everyone else in the state wants.

Most of J&K state already feels (and wants to remain) part of India, but they are never heard in media.

One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?

I deliberately made it a territorial issue not a religious one....no one questions the patriotism of IMs and thousands of non-valley kashmiris including IMs there are happily part of India (Jammu, Ladakh). We do have several hindu spies and traitors including those that have sold their souls to the stalinists and their paymasters.

so the issue is not religion, it is inner pakistaniyat..

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 05 Aug 2010 13:05

Finally, some coherent messages - but we'll need more from the media...

http://sify.com/news/Kashmir-Is-this-re ... jafbh.html

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 05 Aug 2010 14:39

Nihat wrote:Let Kashmir be a seperate state so that we can isolate the problem. Jammu is Hindu and Sikh Majority and Laddakh is Buddhist majority.

+1 to that. We can isolate the problem and also focus more on the problem makers. Again example from the 1921 Mopillah Riots. After the riot collective fines were imposed on RoPers. We should ideally make Jammu,Kashmir and Ladakh to differents states. Provide any benefits which Indian Union provides to any other citizen across India. For Kashmiris, it should be purely dependent on the way they behave. Instead of "collective fines", GoI should use all means to prove that while a "crying baby gets the milk" a "stone throwing baby DOES NOT get milk".

PS: During this recent riots did any one spot the Rage Boy??. Do not see his screaming face these days, hence the question.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 05 Aug 2010 15:26

^^^
IIRC, the trifurcation was under consideration while the NDA was in power, but now its impossible given the sekoolaar traitors in power who can only talk about muslims having first claim on India's resources. The problem in Kashmir valley is not an ethnic, cultural or territorial one but purely a religious one. It is only when the central govt. acknowledges that religion is the reason behind the Kashmiri violence, that a solution can be worked out. Until then any attempt to bring peace will flounder and will only embolden the terror-loving population in the valley about "bringing the Indian state onto its knees".
Acknowledging the religion factor is not be acceptable to the sekoolaars, after all it would demolish their lies of pissful minorities and will mean acknowledging that certain religions are inherently violent. So until the day the a truly nationalist & enlightened central govt. comes to power in N.Delhi, there can be no concrete solution to the J&K issue.

dada · Post by **dada** » 05 Aug 2010 16:43

As a riot management technique, cant we focus on hitting the limbs(especially bone joints,ask any person suffering from arthritis) of the stone-pelters(with bullets using sharp shooters) that will maim them for years to come ? Dont kill the rioters , just immobilize them permanently. The Message will spread within no time.

farazh · Post by **farazh** » 05 Aug 2010 18:52

Regarding trifurcation: currently, valley KMs live in a state where millions of people (including some of their co-religionists) do not share their desire to secede, but after such a division, they will be living in their own state where they form 99+% majority. Therefore I see a serious problem with this idea. I don't know if there is some obvious way of handling this that I'm missing.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Aug 2010 18:58

they will be living in their own state where they form 99+% majority.

And trifurcation may thus be a prelude for territorial surrender.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 05 Aug 2010 19:04

farazh wrote:Regarding trifurcation: currently, valley KMs live in a state where millions of people (including some of their co-religionists) do not share their desire to secede, but after such a division, they will be living in their own state where they form 99+% majority. Therefore I see a serious problem with this idea. I don't know if there is some obvious way of handling this that I'm missing.

I have agree to it. Trifurcation will make them majority in that part and it may give ideas to even those who do not support it. After all we hear only those who support secession. First we should remove the article 370. Plan and execute a demographic change for the next 10 yrs by letting other Indians buy property and settle in JK. As a first step all KP's properties have to be returned to them. If they are currently occupied by others, then use force to evacuate if necessary.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Aug 2010 19:12

farazh wrote: One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?

NO. The reason is demographics.

Area...................Population... % Muslim.... % Hindu.... % Buddhist.... % Other
Kashmir Valley...... ~4 million..........95% ..........4%* ......... –................–
Jammu................ ~3 million ........ 30% .........66% ......... – .............. 4%
Ladakh ..............~0.25 million ...... 50% ......... – ............ 46% ......... 3%

There used to be a Islamism saturation Index on the net somewhere. Empirical data supports that Index/Score Card.

farazh · Post by **farazh** » 05 Aug 2010 19:30

Anindya wrote:Finally, some coherent messages - but we'll need more from the media...

http://sify.com/news/Kashmir-Is-this-re ... jafbh.html

Nice. rediff especially should follow suit.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 05 Aug 2010 20:15

RamaY wrote:
farazh wrote: One question: do Muslims living in Jammu and other areas of the state, also support separatists?
NO. The reason is demographics.

Area...................Population... % Muslim.... % Hindu.... % Buddhist.... % Other
Kashmir Valley...... ~4 million..........95% ..........4%* ......... –................–
Jammu................ ~3 million ........ 30% .........66% ......... – .............. 4%
Ladakh ..............~0.25 million ...... 50% ......... – ............ 46% ......... 3%

There used to be a Islamism saturation Index on the net somewhere. Empirical data supports that Index/Score Card.

The GOI should give financial incentives to those living in Jammu to move and work, in the Kashmir Valley. Let's alter the demographics and then lets see how far the cries of 'Azaadi' travel.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2010 21:05

seems like a region(valley) of the state with a population 50% of greater bangalore(kerala) is always acting like a spoilt brat and hogging the limelight.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Aug 2010 21:08

Singha wrote:seems like a region(valley) of the state with a population 50% of greater bangalore(kerala) is always acting like a spoilt brat and hogging the limelight.

And how many of us know that the ever-so-sweet Nagas have restarted their blockade of Manipur like 2 days ago?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 05 Aug 2010 21:16

Hari Seldon wrote: And how many of us know that the ever-so-sweet Nagas have restarted their blockade of Manipur like 2 days ago?

OT for this thread, responded elsewhere.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 94#p917394

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Aug 2010 07:12

Will this be another 1990-2000 type long drawn out war of attrition? Or will someone come up with a better way to handle this?

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 06 Aug 2010 07:38

Oil tankers from Ladakh attacked by Sunni terrorists

While the oil tanker operators continued to suspend supplies of diesel and petrol to Kashmir valley on the third consecutive day, the operators union today announced its decision to snap supplies to Ladakh region too, from today onwards after a violent mob attacked convoy of tankers coming from Kargil to Srinagar city last evening.

The victims, who were produced before the media by the Union members, disclosed that they were returning from Kargil after off loading petrol, diesel and kerosene oil. Four vehicles of security personnel were escorting them. When they reached near HMT Chowk, a large mob appeared on the main road at around 6.10 pm. While the security vehicles disappeared from the scene they were made sacrificial goats and the mob started stonning on all the vehicles. Many drivers and cleaners were dragged out, way laid and beaten up. They were abused and warned to be burnt alongwith tankers if they dared to come again to Kashmir.

Anan Sharma said that over 200 oil tankers have been damaged so far in Kashmir in past 15 days. There are nearly 1560 oil tankers in the State and about 250 to 300 are operating per day between Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh regions. Divisional Commissioner Jammu Dr Pawan Kotwal said supplies to Ladakh were also being carried through Manali route but in view of Yatra, fuel is running short in some areas of Kashmir including Pahalgam.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 06 Aug 2010 11:02

Baby food being distributed to ensure people do not have too much takleef - always wonder why we as a people cannot provide one tenth of this to the poor kids who literally starve in districts like Midnapore....

From http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_om ... as_1419269

Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah today chaired a high-level meeting to review the supplies of medicine, baby food and other essential items and directed the ministry concerned to make them available to the people in curfew-bound areas.

The government also made its secretariat functional by asking government officials to join the duty and 660 employees out of approximately 1800 turned up.

During the meeting, Omar discussed the supplies of medicines, baby food, LPG and other essential items in Kashmir Valley and directed the consumer affairs and public distribution department to carry such supplies to various areas which have been curfew-bound for some days.

A special thrust was laid on the supply of baby food as the chief minister said that his office had received requests from certain areas in downtown city about its scarcity.

Official vehicles will be carrying the essential supplies in the evening and people at large have been requested to maintain calm and allow the distribution of food items.