Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 07 Aug 2010 17:17

Pakis are getting brazen. Here is a "peacenik" Paki writing in the Washington Post today. It is the usual Paki equal-equal, and openly demands of the US -- "if you want us Pakis to stop being terrorists, then give us Kashmir."

The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
By Mohsin Hamid
(Mohsin Hamid is a writer based in Pakistan. His most recent novel is "The Reluctant Fundamentalist.")

Peace in AfPInd requires not U.S. troops on the ground, but a concerted effort to bring India and Pakistan to the negotiating table, where under the watchful eyes of the international community they can end their hydra-headed confrontation over Kashmir.

Fighting terrorists or fighting the Taliban -- or indeed, fighting in Afghanistan at all -- addresses symptoms rather than the disease in South Asia: the horrific, wasteful, tragic and dangerous six-decade confrontation between India and Pakistan over Kashmir.

At the moment, the Pakistani military uses militant groups to put pressure on India to negotiate, and India uses terrorism as an excuse not to negotiate. By so doing, both sides harm themselves greatly.

Ignore Kashmir, as the United States does, and the conflict seems incomprehensible. Include Kashmir in the picture, and it all makes sense.

The United States still sets much of the global agenda. If it hopes to salvage any remotely positive outcome from its massive, nine-year-old war in Afghanistan, then it should move a resolution over Kashmir up on its list of priorities.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Aug 2010 17:20

JRJ,

The day of a Paki starts with the Kashmir and ends with Kashmir. But in the middle its endless round of beging.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Aug 2010 17:55

jrjrao wrote:Pakis are getting brazen.
The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
At the moment, the Pakistani military uses militant groups to put pressure on India to negotiate . . .

What an audacity to openly admit that the PA is indeed using terrorist jihadis as a legitimate tool ! It also conveys several shades of opinion. Is he saying that it is not the 'civilian government's choice', but a choice by the PA, thus absolving the political leaders of wrong doing ? Ipso facto, isn't he also saying that the PA isn't under civilian control (though everybody knows that already) ? Doesn't it also convey that now that this nexus is no longer a secret, and as a fait accompli, India has to simply proceed with that and that somehow Indian reluctance to engage Pakistan makes Pakistan's use of non-state actors a valid proposition ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Aug 2010 18:18

there is a concerted media oped effort on right now to push kashmir back onto the agenda. perhaps its no surprise, its the counterattack to wikileaks...
pleasantly surprised to find a 'semi-balanced' (could have been better) report in this week's economist on current problems, also refreshing to see the maps refering to "Indian Kashmir" and "Pakistani Kashmir" without adding any confusing verbs and also the maps showing all the different boundaries, including LOC and LAC, Siachen and Aksai Chin (rather than have it all hacked off and randomly attributed)

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 07 Aug 2010 18:26

True. It was not discussed - but it sounds like balderdash to me. To make a working nuclear bomb out of say 2 kg of Plutonium is not easy. Easy to get a fizzle. With 2 Kg Pu one would need at least 20 kg explosive alone apart from shielding, cladding, padding, wadding, dadding, phadding, timing, electronix etc we are looking at a minimum of 40kg even if it was made by a power adept at making nuclear bombs (Russia, USA). A man carrying a 40 Kg backpack can hardly expect to melt in a crowd and not be noticed.

The reason for using suitcase bombs is not so much to cause physical destruction but the psychological and economic terror that they can generate. For this reason, a lighter bomb may be feasible..especially if the mule does not mind getting fried with the radiation.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 07 Aug 2010 18:32

Pratyush wrote:^^^ ArmenT, thats just BRF dictionary, the word is not a part of popular vocabularly yet.

is there a way to put that on wiki...wiki dictionary ?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 07 Aug 2010 18:45

jrjrao wrote:Pakis are getting brazen. Here is a "peacenik" Paki writing in the Washington Post today. It is the usual Paki equal-equal, and openly demands of the US -- "if you want us Pakis to stop being terrorists, then give us Kashmir."

The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
By Mohsin Hamid

The Packee is smarting to keep hearing Af-Pak. He says the Af-Pak problem is actually a Af-P-Ind problem.

One commenter correctly observes that yes, there is no Af-Pak problem, there is simply a Pak problem.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Aug 2010 18:48

Pranav wrote: "jrjrao"
Pakis are getting brazen. Here is a "peacenik" Paki writing in the Washington Post today. It is the usual Paki equal-equal, and openly demands of the US -- "if you want us Pakis to stop being terrorists, then give us Kashmir."

The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
By Mohsin Hamid

The Packee is smarting to keep hearing Af-Pak. He says the Af-Pak problem is actually a Af-P-Ind problem.

One commenter correctly observes that yes, there is no Af-Pak problem, there is simply a Pak problem.

Real problem in the entire world is Kashmir.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Aug 2010 18:58

Pakistan in crisis: left to help themselves

With masterly understatement, army Major-General Athar Abbas summarised the situation. “We do not have the kind of resources to cope with a situation like this, and I think the international community should come to our help.”

Zardari, the frontman for the army, is on trial. Waiting in the wings is General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, chief of the general staff and the man the Americans listen to. He has just been granted an unprecedented second three-year term in office. The army is said to be the only institution that really works in Pakistan – a debatable proposition, given its own performance during the floods
...

Zardari, with his wealth, is at one end of the spectrum; Gulab Rahim is at the other. Surveying the ruin of his home, he said: “Our whole life passed in difficulties and we have never seen prosperity. May Allah give us happiness in the life hereafter.”

worth reading in full

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Aug 2010 19:10

Pakistanis desperate to escape flood areas

But analysts do not expect the army to make a grab for power.

It remains too preoccupied with Taliban insurgents to try and orchestrate a takeover. The military would rather play a behind the scenes role and let the government take the heat for Pakistan's failures.

look at that image of the desperate men clinging to the helicopter skids, i get a scary 'pre-deja vu' sensation... in a few years time that helicopter is India...

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 07 Aug 2010 19:32

army Major-General Athar Abbas summarised the situation. “We do not have the kind of resources to cope with a situation like this, and I think the international community should come to our help.”

Yet they have the resources to send an artillery regiment north?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 07 Aug 2010 19:51

mods, where can i find archive of this thread during the period of sri lanka team attack in lahore?

Thanks

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Aug 2010 19:52

Gerard wrote:
army Major-General Athar Abbas summarised the situation. “We do not have the kind of resources to cope with a situation like this, and I think the international community should come to our help.”
Yet they have the resources to send an artillery regiment north?

And have a nuclear arsenal and disproportionately-sized armed forces ?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 07 Aug 2010 20:00

abhijitm wrote:mods, where can i find archive of this thread during the period of sri lanka team attack in lahore?

The Paki thread has never been archived. There is still a May 2009 in the trash but the Lankan attack took place in March.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 07 Aug 2010 20:03

Gerard wrote:
abhijitm wrote:mods, where can i find archive of this thread during the period of sri lanka team attack in lahore?
The Paki thread has never been archived. There is still a May 2009 in the trash but the Lankan attack took place in March.

anyway, thanks Gerard.
A suggestion, in future can you please archive the thread around such spectacular event?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 07 Aug 2010 20:35

We should help out Pakistan in its time of need and build a dam on the Indus to regulate the flow of water and prevent floods and maintain continuous water supply when it becomes dry.

No I haven't read the Indus water treaty.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Aug 2010 20:35

jrjrao wrote:Pakis are getting brazen. Here is a "peacenik" Paki writing in the Washington Post today. It is the usual Paki equal-equal, and openly demands of the US -- "if you want us Pakis to stop being terrorists, then give us Kashmir."

The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
By Mohsin Hamid

My my this Packee is a real comedian

At the moment, the Pakistani military uses militant groups to put pressure on India to negotiate, and India uses terrorism as an excuse not to negotiate. By so doing, both sides harm themselves greatly. The vast majority of people in South Asia, who like myself desire peace built on compromise, find our hopes held hostage by security hawks.

Bloody idiot. How the furk can he speak for Indians? He wants "compromise"? You give Cashmere. We stop terror. LO bloody L

Nowadays I am beginning to see Cashmere beggars as PakArmy spokespersons. The Paki army stands to lose the most in the long term and is desperate to pull of a "Cashmere compromise"

This is the time to deny them that joy, the fugging boosturds.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 07 Aug 2010 20:39

Carl_T wrote:We should help out Pakistan in its time of need and build a dam on the Indus to regulate the flow of water and prevent floods and maintain continuous water supply when it becomes dry.

Or we can just give up cashmere and let bakis build their own dams. Added benefit: Piss in South Asia.

.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Aug 2010 20:58

At the moment, the Pakistani military uses militant groups to put pressure on India to negotiate, and India uses terrorism as an excuse not to negotiate.

Truely amazing logic here..

The Paki Lahori logic never ceases to amaze.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Aug 2010 21:00

Sum Ji,

Its not Lahori logic, it is the sense of entitlement that never ceases to amaze me

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Aug 2010 21:09

Pratyush wrote:Sum Ji,

Its not Lahori logic, it is the sense of entitlement that never ceases to amaze me

Very true indeed.

Also, very interesting that even GoI ( led by "peace with Pak my mission" MMS) is hardly showing any kind of sympathy towards Pak ( no multiple statements expressing symphaty, "our brothers in need", "xxx $$ worth of aid will be dispatched etc). Even the INC media outlets like NDTV etc are hardly having any coverage of the Paki situation ( no sob stories of our brothers being in distress etc).

Seems like the mood in Dilli circles is still not fully back to its older "make love with Pak" WKK days and lots of residual anger still persists?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Aug 2010 21:23

^^^I hope that your reading of the situation is correct and it is not just a lull before the WKK deluge.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Aug 2010 21:33

So the percentage below the poverty line in the USA and Baquistan is now the same.

Can we all go home now.

P.S. all those desperate poor in the flood are a YYY Quonsipiracy.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=255182

Poverty reduced to half in Musharraf’s regime: WB report

“The percentage of the people living below the poverty line in Pakistan fell from 34.5 percent in 2001/02 to 17.2 percent in 2007/08,” World Bank said in its Country Partnership Strategy (CPS) paper, based on a survey conducted in fiscal year 2007/08. The bank is going to provide $6 billion to Pakistan on the basis of CPS findings.

According to the WB survey, poverty in urban areas fell from 22.7 percent in 2001/02 to 10.1 percent in 2007/08. In rural areas, it declined from 39.3 percent in 2001 to 20.6 percent in 2007/08, it said.

The Task Force on Food Security estimated that poverty headcount increased to 33.8 percent in 2007/08 and 36.1 percent in 2008/09. This means that about 62 million people were below the poverty line in 2008/09.

Data suggests that between 2005 and 2009, over 12 to 14 million people may have been added to the ranks of the poor in Pakistan. This would translate into an increase in poverty from 22.3 percent of the population in 2005/06 to between 30-35 percent in 2008/09,” the report added.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Aug 2010 21:39

For the bleeting (sic) hearts on this forum, esp. American lurkers, it is useful to note that while Americans are busy raising funds for the Baqui's,
the Baqui's are busy killing American doctors in Afghanistan.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... -provinces

Afghanistan war: Deadly ambush of medical mission

An aid worker based in Badakhshan says that Kuran wa Munjan borders two districts in Pakistan that had been taken by the Taliban two months back.

And another bordering district, Nuristan's Barg-e-Matal, has switched hands four times this year between insurgents and coalition forces. Last month, several hundred Taliban seized control of the district before being pushed back by NATO and Afghan troops.

Analysts say the Taliban have contested Barg-e-Matal as a way to open an infiltration route into northern Afghanistan, including Badakshan Province.

Infiltrators to Badakhshan could find collaborators among former commanders of Hizb-i-Islami, a faction of which is allied with the Taliban. Mr. Rahmani says the province is home to some jobless former commanders who are potential recruits for insurgents.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 07 Aug 2010 22:16

Man hurls shoes at President Zardari in UK and Joins the DUBYA club.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=109915

he had it coming. Obviously he was unhappy with the President leaving Pakistan at an inopportune time.

According to me, Pakistan's beggar in charge was having his priorities in order!

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Aug 2010 22:16

Taller friends cut short their pak mission and run back to shanghai
192 Chinese rescued from flood-hit NW Pakistan return to China

The first batch of 192 Chinese workers and engineers, who had been trapped and rescued in flood- hit Pakistan's northwest province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, returned to China on a charter flight on Saturday afternoon.

Tallel friends should glance at cockpit to see who is flying the udan khatola if it is a bearded mulla then they might be en route to meet their 72. Also they should check the engines on the plane perhaps they might be the dong fang engines salvaged from pak railways

However, the chances for the survival of the three missing Chinese are very slim, according to Pakistani police officers who are involved in the search operation.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 07 Aug 2010 22:37

The former Canadian ambassador's article made the best possible point I have heard in a long while. With every neighbor to Pakistan suffering from terrorism emanating from that land, why aren't there more voices naming Pakistan in violation of UN charter?

Folks who are interested in writing Oped's or even comments on other's columns, please use that line of thought.

Mush made some 180 deg turns in wake of such threats. Along with HUJI and Kashmiri, there should have been efforts or at least a very very strong warning that they are considered naming Pakistan a terrorist nation.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 07 Aug 2010 22:38

I hear Wikileaks is planning to put out some more materials and the Pentagon is pretty mad about this.

When special forces were at Tora Bora, and they had the whole AQ/Taliban/Pakistan ISI there on sight, someone stopped them. Someone within the US Govt stopped them from going in.

I want to know who these eviI anti Americans are. I want them smoked out. I want them exposed. I want them outed.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Aug 2010 22:41

India - Pak cricket rivalry is thing of past. The new happening thing is Af-Pak cricket.

Latif wants Afghanistan to play one-day series in Pakistan

It will be interesting to see the tableegi's fighting it out with talibunnies. And which side would the pashtoons play for will also be the deciding factor. I would recomment that umpires should be from ISI since they keep looking both ways.

Plus soosai bummer will not scare either teams. And they can take ample prayer breaks between play and preach between innings.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Aug 2010 22:44

Singapore is flooding pakistan with money in response to the recent tragedy in KP. GHQ is so excited its already placed order for a new dong fang howitzer. Of course TSPA is going to get 50% in kick backs and 10% will flow back into awan e sadar.

S'pore pledges $68k to Pakistan

Cheena will supply a junk nalli (tube) painted green. Pakis will display it on traffic circles of slumbad and then the idiots on deaf & dumb forums will fantasize of how they can use this new toy to defeat yevil yindoos, get a collective orgasm and then watch a bollywood flick on pirated sadaf dvd / or contribute to google trends with their erotic searches (halal of course) before going to sleep

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Aug 2010 22:49

Bangladesh and Pakistan: where minorities fear to walk: By Lee Jay Walker – The Modern Tokyo Times

Yet why are the religions of Buddhism and Hinduism being allowed to be destroyed in both nations? After all, Buddhists in Bangladesh were a small minority and they could never threaten Islam; the same applies to Hindus in Pakistan. Despite this, the international community remains very silent.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 07 Aug 2010 22:49

One way to reduce the people below poverty line is to eliminate such people. Maybe that is the program pakis are following at some level. Vaccum blasts and all that.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Aug 2010 22:53

Western media is now realizing the H&D business of pakis
Don’t give Pakistan a ticking off – in India

If you want Pakistan to listen to your lecture, the absolute golden rule is: don’t deliver it in India!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Aug 2010 22:57

From NYtimes story:

Under pressure since the Mumbai attacks, Jamaat-ud-Dawa had lowered its profile. But now, at least one of its relief centers in Mianwali, in Punjab, boldly flies its trademark flag, displaying a black sword.]

And openly advertising: (Hasn't Pak banned JuD)
Link

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Aug 2010 23:06

jrjrao wrote:Pakis are getting brazen.
The real problem in the Afghan war is India, Pakistan and Kashmir
At the moment, the Pakistani military uses militant groups to put pressure on India to negotiate . . .

R-man, may I kindly request you to write an op-ed to WP countering this barzen fraud? Or if you feel WP won't accept an op-ed from you, would you know any Indian nationalist heavyweight who would be taken seriously by WP to publish a rejoinder to this? Do you think Brahma Chellany or Bharat Karnard or G. Parthasarthy will be able to get their views published? My greatest fear is to what extent those in India, led by highest levels of current govt, actually go along with AfpInd balderdash? Just reading this brazen pack of lies made my blood boil with rage. And mind you, I am in a good mood this morning after staying late last night and watching VVS Laxman's sumblime batting at the P Sara Oval in Colombo

.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 08 Aug 2010 00:11

If I may take a contrarian/unpopular view, I think we ought to keep AfPindia. It is our backyard after all, so why should we not be involved? But refuse to have the focus on Kashmir and move it to Afghanistan. Paki desire for suzerainty over Afghanistan is the "root cause" and discussing anything else is a waste of time.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Aug 2010 01:11

Nandu wrote:If I may take a contrarian/unpopular view, I think we ought to keep AfPindia. It is our backyard after all, so why should we not be involved? But refuse to have the focus on Kashmir and move it to Afghanistan. Paki desire for suzerainty over Afghanistan is the "root cause" and discussing anything else is a waste of time.

I respectfully disagree. What you say makes logical sense, but cannot be executed. As an analogy, one can come up with all kinds of strategies for defeating say Roger Fredere or Rafeal Nadal, but the player to whom these strategies are put forth to must have the capability to execute any such strategy. Likewise, if India were powerful enough, AfPIndia would be OK, if India's writ was brought to bear and the the focus were on Afganisthan and TSP's wanting to make it into its backyard with jihadi terrorists ready to train their guns on India, but the unfortunate reality is that TSP/US will sieze the initiative with equal equal, and be rest assured, it will be Kashmir and only Kashmir. Heck, India cannot even make the stone-pelting louts and their jihadi leadership in the valley cork their rectums, you think India stands a chance against US/TSP?

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 08 Aug 2010 01:53

OK. Back to cowering in our dhotis then.

Seriously, we need to be more aggressive in our diplomacy on Afghanistan.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Aug 2010 02:28

Lalmohan wrote:Pakistanis desperate to escape flood areas

look at that image of the desperate men clinging to the helicopter skids, ~~i get a scary 'pre-deja vu' sensation... in a few years time that helicopter is India...~~

Poetic justice indeed. Payment for all that Jijya collected in last 10 yrs

. leaves 1090yrs of jijya to pay.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Aug 2010 02:38

Pratyush wrote: So let the 3.5 pay the 2.5 billion $ demanded by the RATS to TSP and watch the fun.

None of the 3.5 b-parents demand TSP diverts its >$2.5B/Yr terror fund (in Cashmere) toward flood assistance.

The whole family of 3.5 parents and their b*child is phukedup. Let them die of the AIDs they transmit each other with.