Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

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Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

Sanjay M wrote:
Neshant wrote:The political calculation is that the number of grateful Americans would be greater than those offended that they — and their children and their grandchildren — would be paying for someone else’s mortgage woes.
If Obama did this, it would be absolutely insane. He likes to compare himself to JFK - well, he'll certainly end up like JFK if he betrays so many law-abiding people with such a stunt.

The phrase "moral hazard" would be reduced to a mockery.
What's another trillion or two between friends.

Bernanke will certainly be in favor of it. If the economy takes another dive before the 2012 election and Ron Paul gets the nomination + wins the election, his job will be history. So gotta keep the stimulus going and juices flowing at least until after the 2012 nominations for presidency are announced.

Remember stimulus saves jobs - namely his own.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by SwamyG »

Neshant wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Sanjay: So you support bailing out Corporations but not the actual living-breathing people, eh?
Bailouts are nothing more than passing the bill onto suckers down the line. To give a person a bailout is to make someone else pay for it. Eventually there will be a revolt among people who are productive in society who find they are working only to pay off the debts of others.
Does that mean you agree to opinion that when the Corporations were bailed out routinely it is nothing but the bill being passed down to aam admi (a.k.a suckers, losers...) on the street? Why is there no revolution when the wealth continues to move from the masses to Corporations, few individuals are just evaporate? The revolution business needs leaders.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Sanjay M »

SwamyG wrote:Sanjay: So you support bailing out Corporations but not the actual living-breathing people, eh? Were were these arguments when the Corporations were helped to cover their irresponsible behavior? Tab, amirkhan ka dimag gaas charna gaya tha kya?
I don't support bailing out anybody.

"So you support Joe across the street beating his wife, but not your own father?"

If it makes you happy to believe that dad, then sure.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Hari Seldon »

Mish:
Two Year Treasury Yields Drop Below .5% First Time Ever; 30Yr/10Yr Spread Widens Again
Lets dig deeper, eh?
Two-Year Treasury Notes Drop to Record Low Yield.
Treasuries rallied, pushing two-year note yields below 0.50 percent for the first time, after the government’s payrolls report showed the economy lost more jobs in July than economists forecast.

“Everything you look at is much weaker and keeps the same pro-Treasury sentiment,” said Thomas Tucci, head of U.S. government bond trading in New York at Royal Bank of Canada, one of the 18 primary dealers that trade directly with the Fed. “There will be much more discussion about another round of quantitative easing.”

The 2-year note yield slid two basis points to 0.51 percent, extending its weekly drop to four basis points, after falling to the all-time low of 0.4977 percent. The 10-year note yield touched 2.8130 percent, the lowest since April 2009. The 5-year note yield dropped seven basis points to 1.50 percent after reaching 1.4851 percent, the lowest since January 2009.

“When you get down to 50 basis points on two-years, that’s giving you a signal that there’s not much left on the table,” Gross, founder and co-chief investment officer at Newport Beach, California-based Pimco, said in a radio interview on “Bloomberg Surveillance” with Tom Keene. “So the extension out on the yield curve is what we’ve been attempting over the past several weeks and the past several months.”

“We now have a combination of a weaker economy, no job growth, no inflation and possibly deflation, and it’s not getting better,” said Michael Cheah, who manages $2 billion in bonds at SunAmerica Asset Management Corp. in Jersey City, New Jersey.

“The market can try to continue to try to find reason why we are not Japan, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, why isn’t it a duck? Investors should stay long on Treasuries as rates can go even lower on the front and back end of the curve.”
That last comment kinda nails it, eh? Though, I must caution that the US is indeed not Japan, only. US demographics are more favorable, its khanomy is powered largely by domestic demand rather than foreign demand, and the USD is the reserve currency and all. Heck, what'll this do to a new carry trade in USD remains to be seen only. Expect tsunamis of dumb money to strike at SDRE economic shores.....

Meanwhile, the employment picture hopefully is nearing a bottom. But the chances are slim thta it is.
Underemployment 28.4% for Ages 18 to 29, 18.4% in all Age Groups - Gallup Poll
The percentage of underemployed Americans who are "hopeful" that they will be able to find a job in the next four weeks fell to 40% in July -- down from the better levels of May (43%) and June (42%).
And Mish chimes in:
Looking ahead, there is no driver for jobs. Moreover, states are in forced cutback mode on account of shrinking revenues and unfunded pension obligations. Shrinking government jobs and benefits at the state and local level is a much needed adjustment. Those cutbacks will weigh on employment and consumer spending for quite some time.

Expect to see structurally high unemployment for years to come.
Well, let's hope not. I predict a slow but steady protectionist backlash, esp after the nov polls.
Yumrika will move towards greater ekhanomic isolationism to bring jobs back. Jobs will soon become the #1 political issue despite netas, corporates and their media lackeys resolutely trying denial, diversions and delusions on overdose.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by SwamyG »

Sanjay M wrote:I don't support bailing out anybody.
You realize that man is a social animal, don't you?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by ramana »

Neshant wrote: When did the hat wearing craze die out?
In 1961 when JFK dispensed with wearing hats as a sign on new era. Prior to that hats were a requirement. People had two kinds of hats :one for summer and another for winter.
Dwight Eisenhower and all used to wear hats.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Hari Seldon »

Greenspan discovers dharma... link
Rather than keeping tax rates steady for all but the wealthiest Americans, as the White House wants, Mr. Greenspan is calling for the complete repeal of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, brushing aside the arguments of Republicans and even a few Democrats that doing so could threaten the already shaky economic recovery.

“I’m in favor of tax cuts, but not with borrowed money,” Mr. Greenspan, 84, said Friday in a telephone interview. “Our choices right now are not between good and better; they’re between bad and worse. The problem we now face is the most extraordinary financial crisis that I have ever seen or read about.”
Wow.

To which Sri Denninger retorts:
A financial crisis Greedscam CAUSED with his insane monetary policy during the bubble years.

And let's not forget - all these tax cuts - even then - were with borrowed money.
Technically, he's right. Deficits became a permanent feature of the ekhanomy under Sri Geenspan's ever watchful eye.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by ldev »

enqyoob wrote:Anyway, the thread should be around in 3 years, waiting for Acharya's End-e-Duniya Prediction to come true.
You dont have to wait for 3 years. Just wait for the crash of August 20 - less than 2 weeks away according to the uber prediction. :lol:

Acharya wrote:
SwamyG wrote: "Do you think the stock market is going to tank in the next month or two?"
THis month - high probability before aug 20
On a more serious note look at this link. You can check out the DJ over any time period upto 1928. Whats interesting is the increasing volatility in recent years e.g. after the crash of 1929 it took the DJ 30 years to reach its precrash levels. In contrast after the crash of 2008, the DJ has regained about 80% of its precrash level in less than 2 years. Why this increased volatility? The increased levels of credit, debt and financial assets relative to GDP make the whole system very fragile.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

Hari Seldon wrote:Greenspan discovers dharma...
“I’m in favor of tax cuts, but not with borrowed money,” Mr. Greenspan, 84, said Friday in a telephone interview. “Our choices right now are not between good and better; they’re between bad and worse. The problem we now face is the most extraordinary financial crisis that I have ever seen or read about.”
Anytime a central banker opens his mouth to make a prediciton, it subtracts from the sum total of human knowledge. I have long since tuned out to what these folks are predicting and instead started making preparations.

There was a time when greenspan was considered a maestro. Post 2008 however, its beginning to dawn on people that the central banking profession is a fraud. The entire middle man industry known as financing & banking is built on guys in Armani suites trying to convince you they know what's happening. But really they are all just as clueless as everyone else.

The only reason for this so called profession is to enable the shareholding banks behind the federal reserve to game the system. Skimming money from the productive and passing on losses to suckers is the prime objective.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

SwamyG wrote: Does that mean you agree to opinion that when the Corporations were bailed out routinely it is nothing but the bill being passed down to aam admi (a.k.a suckers, losers...) on the street? Why is there no revolution when the wealth continues to move from the masses to Corporations, few individuals are just evaporate? The revolution business needs leaders.
A quick checklist of what I do and don't support :

Don't :
I don't support bailing out any corporation or individual.

Do :
I do support shutting down the federal reserve, the fiat money racket and various other banking & financing operations which have turned into a useless middle man industry skimming the wealth of society and producing nothing but scams.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

Recovery

Image
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Sanjay M »

Neshant wrote:Do :
I do support shutting down the federal reserve, the fiat money racket and various other banking & financing operations which have turned into a useless middle man industry skimming the wealth of society and producing nothing but scams.

Agreed - the US Federal Reserve is destroying the USA, and even endangering the rest of the world.

Deflation is normal and healthy in moderate doses, so therefore there's no need to target positive inflation all the time. A system that is set up to ensure that banks automatically get peoples' capital is going to degenerate into slack ethics and minimal productivity. Banks need to work harder to earn peoples' money, rather than taking it for granted.

I don't know how the US will escape the trap it's in, without first suffering a catastrophic breakdown.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

ramana wrote: In 1961 when JFK dispensed with wearing hats as a sign on new era. Prior to that hats were a requirement.
I suspect it was because kids did not want to dress like their parents more so than HVAC or JFK.

I like the hat of the guy in the Linux Red Hat logo. But we are off topic here.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Neshant »

Jim Rickards interview by Eric King (King News Network):

Part I :

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... 3A2010.mp3

Part II :

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldn ... 3A2010.mp3
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

enqyoob wrote:
Anyway, the thread should be around in 3 years, waiting for Acharya's End-e-Duniya Prediction to come true. :mrgreen:
Saar, The question was like so the answer was like that. :wink:
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by ShivaS »

Ok now Beta is 0.5 adding two hundred basis points as the spread for risk coverage and a individual with a sound job and with no credit card loans , should be able to get 2.5% interest rate for at least 15 yr conforming loan. { I know that mortgage loans are also linked to LIBOR} But DO we see that kind of interest rates in market no? Because Big banks are all busy fixing their books while the sun shines and lending back to GOTUS whose cost of capital is higher. They are not passing the low interest to consumers that is the crux of TARP failure.

Swamy G garu replace Beta with commodity price and margins you will sometimes why commodity prices fall may not be passed to the consumer.

Besides the commodity trading is inherently risky therefore the spreads will be much more higher and volatile.
Retail price whole sale price long term contracts (futures) all are factors too.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by enqyoob »

Can someone explain to the Mango Abdul in plain pingreji why banks are failing, when they are only giving 0.00001% interest on deposits, and give out loans at 6 - 9% with good credit, and their bad loans are being absorbed by the taxpayer? The madarssa math fails me here. I would think that the banks would be rolling in the $$$$??
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by ramana »

Please no pingrezi outside BENIS thread..

Thanks, ramana
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

enqyoob wrote:Can someone explain to the Mango Abdul in plain pingreji why banks are failing, when they are only giving 0.00001% interest on deposits, and give out loans at 6 - 9% with good credit, and their bad loans are being absorbed by the taxpayer? The madarssa math fails me here. I would think that the banks would be rolling in the $$$$??
Banks are failing because the bad loans are so huge that they cannot be absorbed by the taxpayer.
These bad loans are because of many reasons chief being housing loans and other loans related to the economy.Another huge reason is the 'derivatives' which are essentially bets on anything which are going sour at a rapid clip.The whole global G.D.P is somewhere around 50 trillion Dollars whereas derivatives guaranteed by the banks are rumored to be somewhere between 400 Trillion to 1000 Trillion.
Hope this helps.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by SwamyG »

Sri sri shivas regal garu: But that is within the country, in the commodity market if USA no longer needs millions of barrels a day (assume because of newly discovered fuel cells), wouldn't the demand reduce? Are you saying the OPEC cartel will keep the petroleum prices high considering India's potential demand? Wouldn't it be matter of few years, before the Americans sell/export/license the energy cells or the technology to create them to any potential buyer? Surely the oil producers will take this fact into account.

I understand speculation plays a part in keeping the commodities prices what they are; but, say America provides the major breakthrough in creating energy from fuel cells. Maybe in another 5 years, America will be on road to wean away from oil. But the World is already sitting on some reserves. Russia, OPEC and even USA are in the game. India & China are scouting for energy - they will latch onto whatever they can get. There are so many impoverished people in the country and room to grow, they will take coal, oil or fuel cells. Under these conditions with a great fall in demand from America (and probably the West) and with a great new energy source -shouldn't India stand to gain?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Carl_T »

It's time for the Federal Reserve to start buying private debt.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by SwamyG »

Manish: The answer might be different and is simple. They are failing because they made bad loans - loans that are not getting repaid. What you describe for the big banks. The banks that have been failing are small ones. These are failing, so experts say, because they lent to commercial business that relied on the booming economy owing to rising real estate market. So when the real estate market suffered and pulled down the economy, these businesses hurt. The banks that lent to these business now got hit in turn.

The big banks have been bailed out by the Fed. But the small banks just go and offer their heads at the altar. FDIC walks in and does the funeral rites. Small banks failing and Big banks standing is not good for any country, it is almost like consolidation; now more people & businesses will be forced to shop up in the food chain. FDIC can handle the closures as long as they are slow and steady.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21694
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/busin ... .html?_r=1
http://www.dandodiary.com/2009/08/artic ... -disagree/
http://www.newsweek.com/2009/08/27/bank ... lures.html
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

Carl_T wrote:It's time for the Federal Reserve to start buying private debt.
Uncle Ben is Revving up his Helicopter and should be in the air by October as per Faber.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

@ Swamy Ji , Yes you are right What I described is true for the big banks which are being bailed out, the smaller ones are the ones that keep failing because of what you just described.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Carl_T »

Manishw wrote:
Carl_T wrote:It's time for the Federal Reserve to start buying private debt.
Uncle Ben is Revving up his Helicopter and should be in the air by October as per Faber.
I certainly hope so, because that would be the only way of stopping deflation at this point and rapidly inject money into the economy in order to instigate lending and borrowing.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Carl_T »

enqyoob wrote:Can someone explain to the Mango Abdul in plain pingreji why banks are failing, when they are only giving 0.00001% interest on deposits, and give out loans at 6 - 9% with good credit, and their bad loans are being absorbed by the taxpayer? The madarssa math fails me here. I would think that the banks would be rolling in the $$$$??
Some possible scenarios, one is the liquidity trap, read about it on wiki, basically says that when interest rates are very low no one is willing to lend because banks wont make much profit on lending it miniscule rates.

I personally think the liquidity trap is BS.

Second scenario, IMHO it is because there is not much borrowing because consumers and firms have been hit badly, and as long as there is no growth in consumer expenditure, there won't be growth in investment.

Another possible scenario is fear of deflation. You can imagine the effects of deflation.

I think the way forward is for the Fed to buy corporate debt in order to increase the money supply and velocity of money by injecting liquidity into firms that can reinvest that money.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

SwamyG wrote: The banks that have been failing are small ones. These are failing, so experts say, because they lent to commercial business that relied on the booming economy owing to rising real estate market. So when the real estate market suffered and pulled down the economy, these businesses hurt. The banks that lent to these business now got hit in turn.

The big banks have been bailed out by the Fed. But the small banks just go and offer their heads at the altar. FDIC walks in and does the funeral rites. Small banks failing and Big banks standing is not good for any country, it is almost like consolidation; now more people & businesses will be forced to shop up in the food chain. FDIC can handle the closures as long as they are slow and steady.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21694
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/busin ... .html?_r=1
http://www.dandodiary.com/2009/08/artic ... -disagree/
http://www.newsweek.com/2009/08/27/bank ... lures.html
They have transferred the bad housing loans to the small banks in each region. The house under the leins and already foreclosed are still held by the small banks and are not released to the market. This keeps the housing prices from falling down.

They are gradually closing the small banks with their limited foreclosed properties in each region so that there is no sudden large impact on the financial market as well as the housing prices. It is actually brilliant.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

M3 has gone down by 8.8% as per shadowstats.com, ECRI and Baltic Index are falling off the cliff.To reverse this M1 must go up so we are hearing talk of the fed Balance sheet going up to 5 Trn$ from 2.2 at present.
Sad part is inflation will kick start 'hugely' in India especially food inflation unless the price of oil is contained somehow since we don't have a deflation problem and the G.O.I will not let the rupee appreciate by much.Another saving grace could be if china revalues the yuan massively which I think is next to impossible since they are in bubble territory themselves.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Sanjay M »

^^^ You know China is eyeing things more closely than any of us right now. In a pinch, they can devaluate in an instant to provide immediate stimulus, which gives them some agility here. That seems to be their main weapon, beyond simply draining their reserves.

Manishw wrote:
Carl_T wrote:It's time for the Federal Reserve to start buying private debt.
Uncle Ben is Revving up his Helicopter and should be in the air by October as per Faber.

Yes, but who gets bailed out, and who's left to drown?
Given the controversy over the last round of bailouts, the next round would be even more politically inflammatory.
Last edited by Sanjay M on 08 Aug 2010 21:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

Anybody knows this group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_C ... Management
Cerberus Capital Management
Type Limited Partnership
Industry Private Equity
Founded 1992
Headquarters New York City
Products private equity funds
Total assets $24 billion
Website www.cerberuscapital.com

Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. is one of the largest private equity investment firms in the United States. The firm is based in New York City, and run by 50-year-old financier Steve Feinberg.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Carl_T »

Sanjay M Don't think of it as a bailout, buying high quality corporate debt will increase the money supply. Fed can just print money :D .

ManishW - a decline in M3 is I believe just a decline in the savings rate, which is to be expected in this climate, has M1 declined as well?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Carl_T »

Cerberus is a famous PE group. Used to own Chrysler.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

Carl_T wrote:Cerberus is a famous PE group. Used to own Chrysler.
That can be read. I am asking what is the special relations it has with global powers
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

Sanjay M wrote:
Yes, but who gets bailed out, and who's left to drown?
Given the controversy over the last round of bailouts, the next round would be even more politically inflammatory.
Purely speculating here. Obama tries to be everything to everybody and tries to avoid pitfalls.I guess this time it might be direct transfer of money to Americans though disguised by various fancy names.This being the election year also.
These are purely speculative thoughts and there are a myriad ways this injection can be carried out
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

Acharya wrote: That can be read. I am asking what is the special relations it has with global powers
Purely off the cuff it is controlled by Feinberg who is a member of the Rothschild cabal.They have something dirty going on in BP if memory serves me right.Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by SwamyG »

Acharya wrote: They have transferred the bad housing loans to the small banks in each region. The house under the leins and already foreclosed are still held by the small banks and are not released to the market. This keeps the housing prices from falling down.

They are gradually closing the small banks with their limited foreclosed properties in each region so that there is no sudden large impact on the financial market as well as the housing prices. It is actually brilliant.
Any links or citations to substantiate?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by Manishw »

Carl_T wrote:Sanjay M Don't think of it as a bailout, buying high quality corporate debt will increase the money supply. Fed can just print money :D .

ManishW - a decline in M3 is I believe just a decline in the savings rate, which is to be expected in this climate, has M1 declined as well?
No M1 has not declined as you pointed out.But the decline in M3(which is normal in such lousy business environment as You have correctly pointed out) will have to be compensated by corresponding increase in M1 otherwise the system collapses in deflation.Buying High Quality govt. debt is same as increasing M1 though it might be a political hot potato.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by abhischekcc »

What is interesting is that they name the firm after the three headed dog that guards the gates of hell in ancient European mythology - does that indicate something, or are they just trying to be intellectually cool?

I have seen so many occult/satanic symbols on modern corporations - CBS has the all seeing eye of horus, NATO has the Nazi plus + sign, Wal mart has a penta star, the most respected bonds' information provider is called Morningstar, and of course, the Pentagon's building has the sign of a Pentagon. UBS's symbol - if you read it carefully has 666 in it. Reuters, before the merger with Thomson, had 13 circles in its symbol, along with the indication for 1 against 1, the symbol of lucifer's rebellion against god. Microsoft has the plus sign hidden in its logo.

Vodafone's symbol is the same as a 'Soul gate', supposed to be the symbol from which dead spirits can be called into our level, and it is more telling when you see that the mascot of vodafone is 'Zuzu' - a bunch of ghosts. Nobody could make this connection by mistake - it has to be deliberate.

The rule seems to be that the newer a symbol, the more likely it is to be satanic.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

SwamyG wrote:
Acharya wrote: They have transferred the bad housing loans to the small banks in each region. The house under the leins and already foreclosed are still held by the small banks and are not released to the market. This keeps the housing prices from falling down.

They are gradually closing the small banks with their limited foreclosed properties in each region so that there is no sudden large impact on the financial market as well as the housing prices. It is actually brilliant.
Any links or citations to substantiate?
I have talked to few banks and mortgage companies. They are holding foreclosed properties.
Some blogs or expert in the area may have written in deep about this. If you can and if you do some search please post.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
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Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 201

Post by svinayak »

abhischekcc wrote:What is interesting is that they name the firm after the three headed dog that guards the gates of hell in ancient European mythology - does that indicate something, or are they just trying to be intellectually cool?

I have seen so many occult/satanic symbols on modern corporations - CBS has the all seeing eye of horus, NATO has the Nazi plus + sign, Wal mart has a penta star, the most respected bonds' information provider is called Morningstar, and of course, the Pentagon's building has the sign of a Pentagon. UBS's symbol - if you read it carefully has 666 in it. Reuters, before the merger with Thomson, had 13 circles in its symbol, along with the indication for 1 against 1, the symbol of lucifer's rebellion against god. Microsoft has the plus sign hidden in its logo.

Vodafone's symbol is the same as a 'Soul gate', supposed to be the symbol from which dead spirits can be called into our level, and it is more telling when you see that the mascot of vodafone is 'Zuzu' - a bunch of ghosts. Nobody could make this connection by mistake - it has to be deliberate.

The rule seems to be that the newer a symbol, the more likely it is to be satanic.
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It is similar to bootha pishachi in the Hindu pantheon. It is supposed to protect them == dwarapalaka
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One of two pair of dvarapala temple guardian, 9th century Plaosan buddhist temple, Java, Indonesia.
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