Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 2010

[RajeshA]

@Pratyush

May be if the BLA threatens Pakistan with a nuke, claiming they have got it from the Taliban, then PA's level of panic or lack of it would be a dead give-away, how much of their deniability is true.

Still the onus should remain on PA.

[James B]

Groups such as Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) have stepped into the vacuum to provide relief aid and social services to those affected by the flooding. JuD has already established 13 relief camps in surrounding districts, providing food to the displaced and running an ambulance service. JuD now says it has 2,000 members working in the region. The group claims to be involved solely in charitable work but is widely believed to be a front for the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, responsible for the 2008 Mumbai attack. JuD gained renown after the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, when it was one of the only groups operating an effective aid and relief service in the affected region, often eclipsing the government’s own efforts and providing help to areas that the authorities sometimes took days or weeks just to reach.

As long as government incompetency and inadequacy continues to hamper the relief effort, it will be impossible to deny groups like JuD the space to operate. By working effectively during times of severe need, groups like JuD, much like Hezbollah, are able to burnish their image as charitable organizations and extend their networks of grassroots support. While doing real good, however, they are also providing a front for the more insidious and violent activities of their militant wings.

http://www.american.com/archive/2010/au ... -islamists

[amit]

IMO there is one factor that needs to be considered in this interesting plausible deniability discussion going on. And that is the pressure on the government. At the end of the day the government in power has to go back to the electorate.

Gruesome and heinous as the Mumbai attack was in which close to 200 hundred innocent lives were lost, it would pale in comparison to a JDAM attack. Now can the party in power afford to sit on its hands after thousands of people die in a JDAM attack, with thousands more destined to die due to radioactive poisoning, and still hope to retain credibility, especially with Illyas Kashmiri demanding J&K in return for not setting off further JDAMs?

I hope we never have to find out but I think not.

And while this may not be a consideration for the Paki jarnails, I don't think other major players in the region would be willing to wait and find out, especially the traller than mountain fliends across the Himalayas. Any Nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India will invariably involve the Chinese - at least any half decent CCP analyst should game that in.

Of course the Pakis are known for their tactical brilliance so nothing can be ruled out but it is unlikely that they would work on this on their own with out a wink, wink, nod, nod from at least one of the 3.5 fliends.

Bottomline: If a JDAM does not cross the thresh hold of the status quo power such as India then, the country doesn't deserve to be in the comity of nations.

[abhishek_sharma]

^^ Good point. I think BLA should start threatening a nuclear war if their demands are not met. Balochistan is a nuclear flashpoint.

[shiv]

7) One week later, a JDAM goes off in an Indian city... Mumbai, perhaps, or Bengalooru. With devastating consequences for the Indian economy. The Pakistanis express heartfelt sympathy to India while denying that the blast indicated a bomb of Pakistani design. They also caution India against taking "ill-advised steps" and put their nuclear delivery systems on high alert.

8 ) The same or next day, Ilyas Kashmiri issues a statement from somewhere he declares is "Taliban-protected territory." He says 313 Brigade has possession of not one more, but in fact fifty more nuclear weapons. They will be detonated in Indian cities one by one until India gives up Kashmir.

<snip>

Does this explain how the combination of US withdrawal from AfPak, and elevation of Taliban to governance in Afghanistan, makes the situation MORE dangerous for India than it is today? Essentially it affords Pakistan an additional degree of plausible deniability. That's what we saw during the IC814 hijacking.

Rudradevgaru - there are several untenable assumptions in your story

1) That Pakistani nukes are now somehow "safe" and cannot be spirited away if the need arises and the Pakistanis want them elsewhere
2) That Pakistan will announce the theft of nukes to the world when they can actually arm the Taliban with nukes tomorrow without telling anyone if they wished. Buying into the story of "American surveillance security" is a dangerous and naive idea.
3) That you need to conjure up a convoluted tale such as the one you have written to create real fear of being nuked in India. Any sane Indian will know that Bengalooru or Mumbai can be nuked tomorrow by the Pakistani army itself even in the absence of the tale you have written. Living in the hope that a Taliban takeover is needed for that is a mistake that no rational Indian should make.
4) That a Taliban nuke on India give Pakistan "plausible deniability" - and that India will wonder if the Taliban nuke came from Boputhatswana and not Pakistan

The risk of Pakistani nukes hitting the city I live in is not for some future date like your story - but a real one right now. In your mind you might want to believe (or state for the purpose of argument) that it is not that risky now but will become more risky at some future date if the story you have written should come to pass. Having been in the line of fire of Paki nukes for 20 years I think your story is a dangerous one that tries to reassure people that all is well now but could get worse. Nothing is more dangerous to India than Indians reassuring themselves that all is well with nukes now and that someone else is needed at some future date for those nukes to become really dangerous.

Once you create a story that reassures you that all is well now, it is a simple step forward to support all the false assumptions you need to make to keep those nukes safe:

a) America is watching those nukes
b) America will get those nukes if they are moved
c) Pakistan is rational
d) The nukes are safe with Pakistanis

What we are seeing in Pakistan is the serous risk of a Taliban takeover of Pakistan. The nuclear bogey and the story you have written are aimed at creating the impression that the nukes will be more unsafe for India if the Taliban were to take over. Your story is aimed at creating an argument for opposing the Taliban takeover of Pakistan in answer to a question I asked.

In other words your story is a good "sales pitch" for opposing a Taliban takeover of Pakistan, based on the fear that the Taliban will use the nukes on India. But tell me saar what makes you think that the nukes are safe now and will not be used against India? Surely you don't believe that the Americans keep an eye on Pakistani nukes for Indian security purposes? Do you really believe that the Pakistan cannot hand nukes to the Taliban if they wanted to do that? Do you believe that the Pakistanis, who have openly said that they might nuke India and need Afghanistan for "strategic depth" against India will need to hide behind a Taliban excuse to nuke India and expect people will believe that the Taliban got a nuke and nobody will know where it came from and therefore give Pakistan "plausible deniability"? One would have to have some very very naive people for this to be "plausible".

On the other hand no force on earth, certainly not the Americans may be able to prevent an eventual Taliban takeover of Pakistan. If and when that occurs which of the following countries would be "more unsafe"?
1) India
2) USA
3) Israel

You are saying that India is more unsafe. Are you also trying to say that nukes in Taliban hands would not increase the risk to US forces and bases and to Israel.

All I am trying to point out is that 150 Pakistani nukes are now pointed at India. Of those 150 nukes if 50 go to the Taliban - it is unlikely that all 50 will be reserved for India. At least a few (perhaps 10) will be aimed at the US and Israel.

Is India more unsafe when it has 150 Pakistani nukes pointed at it? (This is the current situation)
Is India more unsafe when it has 100 Paki + 40 Taliban nukes pointed at it? (This is after a Taliban takeover)

Is the US more unsafe when 150 Pakistani nukes are pointed at India? (This is the current situation)
Is the US more unsafe when there are 140 nukes pointed at India and 5 at the US and 5 at Israel? (This is after a Taliban takeover)

[SSridhar]

Bottomline: If a JDAM does not cross the thresh hold of the status quo power such as India then, the country doesn't deserve to be in the comity of nations.

amit, if only a JDAM attack has to be seen as 'crossing the threshold', and that too doubtfully, then we have to be very sorry for ourselves.

[shiv]

IMO, Taliban taking over in Afghanistan will be a step backwards. I win for retrogressive forces is just that - bad for India and bad for US.

<snip>

At no point I have said that Pakistan is not a retrogressive force.

What my POV is they are the Taliban & ISI are the same, it never was otherwise,

I have quoted your words from 2 separate posts.

First - at no point did I accuse you of saying that "Pakistan is not a retrogressive force.". Yet the wording of my sentence was enough to make that insinuation real enough for you to issue a denial.

It was exactly that way in which I read your statement that the Taliban are a retrogressive force. You did not specify whether you consider Pakistan retrogressive or not. But now you are saying that the Taliban and the ISI are the same. I presume that you also accept that the ISI is also retrogressive.

But do you think the ISI is separate from the Pakistani army, with the ISI being retrogressive and the Pakistani army "not retrogressive"?

[RajeshA]

I think it is productive to explore the question of 'plausible deniability' by the Pakistanis, and whether it can work. It is important to game the scenario that Rudradev ji has set up.

The Pakistanis would go for this scenario, only if they are confident, that their 'plausible deniability' will cut any ice.

If the world puts Pakistan on notice, that their mask of duplicity is off, and they have zero credibility, then they would rethink their strategy of playing with fire!

The more Pakistan's duplicity, taqqiya, double-crossing nature stands exposed to the world, the less is the chance of Pakistan indulging in a misjudged adventure.

[Hari Seldon]

^^^Agreed.

If TSP could pull off such a move - explicit JDAM blackmail by Afgn based Ilyas cashmiri types - it would have been tried by now. But then, with the yanks in Afgn, there's not enough plausible deniability yet. Perhaps.

The suitcase bum scenario ought to scare the bejeezus out of any sane desi only. If it can be done, it would have been done by now, am sure. Imagine TSP with 8-10 cheeni hand-delivered suitcase bums in our top 10 cities and then ISI HQ calls up Dilli to have a chat in private...

No way Des would allow the bluff to be called, IMO. The only way out is stalemate, if we had our own suitcases placed inside the private parts of enemy urban hubs. Stalemate.

[amit]

amit, if only a JDAM attack has to be seen as 'crossing the threshold', and that too doubtfully, then we have to be very sorry for ourselves.

Sridhar,

I agree with you totally. In my book Mumbai crossed the thresh hold several-fold. But unfortunately in the wider Indian context that seems to be a minority viewpoint - notice the election results.

However, what I wrote about JDAM was just taking the plausible deniability discussion further.

Note: I personally would love to see uninterrupted economic growth (8-9%) through this decade because I think that would automatically neutralise the 3.5 friends (a point to note is Cameron's comments at ITvity). However, that should not be at the cost of several Mumbais. One Mumbai is already unacceptable.

[amit]

I think it is productive to explore the question of 'plausible deniability' by the Pakistanis, and whether it can work. It is important to game the scenario that Rudradev ji has set up.

The Pakistanis would go for this scenario, only if they are confident, that their 'plausible deniability' will cut any ice.

If the world puts Pakistan on notice, that their mask of duplicity is off, and they have zero credibility, then they would rethink their strategy of playing with fire!

The more Pakistan's duplicity, taqqiya, double-crossing nature stands exposed to the world, the less is the chance of Pakistan indulging in a misjudged adventure.

Oh by all means we should game this scenario. It's just that I think to make it realistic we should factor in what the 3.5, especially China, would think about the chain of events.

Another point to consider: Will the US just wait and do nothing after Pakis announce five nukes are missing and presumably after a period of time (a few days?) announces that one has been recovered? Whatever the public utterances/actions may be of the US of A, surely they understand the interchangeability between the ISI and Kashmiri types? Unless the US of A is in the game, would they rest easy with four nukes still missing?

IMO we need to look at all these factors. The chain of events will not be played out with only three players, India, Pakistan and Kashmiri types.

But as I said, it's good to think this through.

On a separate note: I don't think anyone of the 3.5 have any illusions about the real nature of the Paki TSPA/ISI combine. They use it for their own purposes and pay for services rendered. But it's like using a half mad Rottweiler to guard your property. You keep people out but at the same time you ensure that it's always chained so that it can't break loose and bite you. I think the nukes lost story would be akin to breaking the chain - hence unacceptable. Unless of course one were to consider that anyone of the 3.5 wanted the chain to break...

[Kanson]

Every N-bomb/JDAM has their unique signature traceable to the country of origin. So what plausible deniability we are talking about ? I see the whole discussion doesnt cut ice.

[amit]

Every N-bomb/JDAM has their unique signature traceable to the country of origin. So what plausible deniability we are talking about ? I see the whole discussion doesnt cut ice.

That's another point. As far as I know even a crude radioactive device (a real JDAM and not a Pak nuke being posed as a JDAM) still leaves behind telltale radioactive signatures that can be traced back to the source.

[R Vaidya]

Dear shiv
Your arguements are correct. A loss for USA is not a loss for India.
I think the following are to be considered in addition to your arguements

Weeping /arguing with USA about Pakistan is of no use since they do not have much control. As a declining power they can maximum bribe Pakis to protect their Times Square. The real powers with influence--on current terror state-- are KSA and China and both will be more affected by Taliban govt in Pakistan than India.
India should not fall in to the trap of-- Talibun more dangerous than current Pak rulers. That is the main blackmail point of the current terror State. Talibun may focus on domestic issues of veiling and law and order and corruption and masjids. India should not unnecessarily get worked up that all Paki wimmen are getting veiled.That is all
R vaidya

[A_Gupta]

The Guardian article referred to earlier about the world's underwhelming response to Pakistan's floods seems to indicate donor fatigue. Or is there a political message for Pakistan in this decided unenthusiasm to help with flood relief?

[amit]

Here's a thought. Taliban comes to power in Afghanistan. They would be against India because it is Kaffir country. But do note their animosity would be religious, the hatred that "pious" fundamentalists have for non believers. It would not be based on the idea of stupid lost Muslim/Moghul glory of ruling India for a zillion years etc.

So if we assume that the Taliban would hate India because its Kaffir and would want to convert the country why do we think they'd jump over Pakistan and directly come to India? Wouldn't they want to make Pakistan more pious first and then get to India?

I think this ties is very well to Shiv's POV. Every other alternative scenario builds on the idea that somehow TSPA/ISI would retain control of the Taliban. Given the fact that the Afghans historically consider the present day Pakistani territory as previously conquered territory why do we assume that they would remain under TSPA control? Don't the Afghans consider themselves more TFTA than the Pakjabis?

[Chandragupta]

^^^Agreed.

If TSP could pull off such a move - explicit JDAM blackmail by Afgn based Ilyas cashmiri types - it would have been tried by now. But then, with the yanks in Afgn, there's not enough plausible deniability yet. Perhaps.

The suitcase bum scenario ought to scare the bejeezus out of any sane desi only. If it can be done, it would have been done by now, am sure. Imagine TSP with 8-10 cheeni hand-delivered suitcase bums in our top 10 cities and then ISI HQ calls up Dilli to have a chat in private...

No way Des would allow the bluff to be called, IMO. The only way out is stalemate, if we had our own suitcases placed inside the private parts of enemy urban hubs. Stalemate.

So what if TSP had 20 Nukes in our top 20 cities? Why would ISI HQ call up Delhi? And what would they talk about? Me thinks that 20 Paki Nukes present in 20 Indian cities is equal to 10 Agnis in Rajashtan pointing at Pakistan. We don't need our own suitcases inside Pakistan.

[amit]

Or is there a political message for Pakistan in this decided unenthusiasm to help with flood relief?

A Gupta ji, when you consider that whatever little donations have been given is more in kind than cash, then it's not only a political message but also a signal that the rest of the world knows very well where aid money goes to - companies such a BMW for example.

Added later: I also think it's very significant that India has given zero aid (in cash or kind). That's also a message being sent, IMO not only to Pakistan but to others as well.

[ShivaS]

Every N-bomb/JDAM has their unique signature traceable to the country of origin. So what plausible deniability we are talking about ? I see the whole discussion doesnt cut ice.

What if the material came from non state {re} actors?

[RajeshA]

a signal that the rest of the world knows very well where aid money goes to - companies such a BMW for example.

To help flood victims in Pakistan, Germany should announce a low-interest loan to Pakistan to buy BMW cars.

[amit]

a signal that the rest of the world knows very well where aid money goes to - companies such a BMW for example.

To help flood victims in Pakistan, Germany should announce a low-interest loan to Pakistan to buy BMW cars.

Rajesh good one!

[Vikas]

Here is a imaginary discussion between Prithviraj Chauhan and his Finance Minister right after first battle of Tarain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PC: So the Maleech is running away with his good for nothing Army. We should chase them and finish them forever.
FM: Sire, with all due respect, The Maleech has run away. We should give him face to save. Why unnecessary corner him. After all nothing grows in their territory and then need to depend upon Bharat for their needs. We can squeeze them with blockade.
PC: Right but they can come back tomorrow...
FM:Sire, we should wait and let our economy go strong. Once we have enough money, we can chase them to the end of the world and destroy them.
Anyways they dare not attack us for we have the bravest of soldiers and greatest of King.
PC: But what about their Military strength after this defeat.
FM:Sire, They are despondent. Once Ghauri goes back, his subjects and warlords will kill him for he has failed in his mission. We must focus on our economy and increase the GDP.
PC: But if we chase them now..
FM: Sire we need 3:1 ratio to chase them and destroy them. Anyways we don't covet their territory. Moreover few more years and our economy would double itself. We also need to watch our back from your Jaichand.
PC: But we defeated him with current economy.Isn't that right.
FM: Sire, our traders say that the war will destroy them. Their trading parters would not like to trade with a state that is in war. We must let our economy grow.20 more years of Uninterrupted peace and our economy would be so great that no one will be able to dare cast evil eye on us.
PC: Ok. Drop the idea of Chasing them. Lets go back and focus on economy only.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We did not squeal when Parliament was attacked as IT czars were worried about the fall out of the war. Once JDAM goes in their (& mine too) city, I wonder if there will be anything left to worry about.

[Pratyush]

What if the material came from non state {re} actors?

[Pratyush]

Here is a imaginary discussion between Prithviraj Chauhan and his Finance Minister right after first battle of Tarain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PC: So the Maleech is running away with his good for nothing Army. We should chase them and finish them forever.
FM: Sire, with all due respect, The Maleech has run away. We should give him face to save. Why unnecessary corner him. After all nothing grows in their territory and then need to depend upon Bharat for their needs. We can squeeze them with blockade.
PC: Right but they can come back tomorrow...
FM:Sire, we should wait and let our economy go strong. Once we have enough money, we can chase them to the end of the world and destroy them.
Anyways they dare not attack us for we have the bravest of soldiers and greatest of King.
PC: But what about their Military strength after this defeat.
FM:Sire, They are despondent. Once Ghauri goes back, his subjects and warlords will kill him for he has failed in his mission. We must focus on our economy and increase the GDP.
PC: But if we chase them now..
FM: Sire we need 3:1 ratio to chase them and destroy them. Anyways we don't covet their territory. Moreover few more years and our economy would double itself. We also need to watch our back from your Jaichand.
PC: But we defeated him with current economy.Isn't that right.
FM: Sire, our traders say that the war will destroy them. Their trading parters would not like to trade with a state that is in war. We must let our economy grow.20 more years of Uninterrupted peace and our economy would be so great that no one will be able to dare cast evil eye on us.
PC: Ok. Drop the idea of Chasing them. Lets go back and focus on economy only.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We did not squeal when Parliament was attacked as IT czars were worried about the fall out of the war. Once JDAM goes in their (& mine too) city, I wonder if there will be anything left to worry about.

Rest assured,

The same conversation will take place within the Indian Gobernment. With the WKK/ Left libiral elete dominating the airwaves shouting that the actions of the Hindu Phasists has resulted in the use of JDAM by the peace loving Terrorists of Pakistan.

It would be interesting to be Fly on the wall during that conversation.

[RajeshA]

Call for more aid for flood-hit Pakistan: BBC

It said the international community had actually committed funding that works out at just over $3 per flood-affected person.

The commitment per person after the 2005 Pakistan earthquake was $70 and for this year's Haiti earthquake it was $495.

If the international agencies take their cut, and Zardari takes his cuts, and the Pakistani government takes its cut, then there would be 50 cents per affected person.

Affected Region per BBC

[krisna]

The scenarios as depicted earlier and the responses from India wrt pakis can occur when both sides are sane.
IF pakis are sane they would have competed with India in non violent means-economy, improving living conditions of its people, jockeying for influence from nations etc etc.

But are pakis are insane and rabid animals. They have one point agenda of destruction of India even if they eat grass at the end of the day.

In effect India is using responses of a saner nation vs an insane rabid nation.
In this India will be affected more in the exchange short of new clear one.

The possibilities of attacks on India is increased with each calamity---
Likely scenario could be that the JuD and the ilk will get a good name in helping the distressed people. There is no civil authority to help people in calamities. PA will help to get a good name and continue its hold on people. They will give support to JuD for recruitment against India.

1) There is little economic activity.
2) Brain washing Abduls is more easy as the families have nothing to eat or live.
3) Food shelter and clothing will be provided to families in exchange for potential recruits to inflict maximum damage on India.

What India has suffered “by thousand cuts” pakis are enjoying with multiple IEDs, quakes floods etc all with “1000% interest” in the last few years.

The heat should be increased regarding the version of “the heat and frog” to reduce the time for boiling the frog.

Caution--Currently there is lull in terrorism across the borders save for stone pelting. Things can change soon.
---Vinaasha Kaale Viparitha Buddhi.

[James B]

Affected Region per BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi ... _464_4.jpg

It seems almost 40% of TSP got affected by the floods. Allah has his own ways to punish.

[Cosmo_R]

Taliban and Nukes ^^^. IMHO, the danger is not that Mulla Omar's men or LeT et al get Paki nukes. The real danger is the Paki army types who man these weapons have become talibanized and do this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... dier/2441/

Not about plausible deniability but rather soosai corpse kamandus

[Kanson]

Every N-bomb/JDAM has their unique signature traceable to the country of origin. So what plausible deniability we are talking about ? I see the whole discussion doesnt cut ice.

What if the material came from non state {re} actors?

Do you want to believe such alibi anymore? Even after David Headley incident ? It is your choice.

[RamaY]

So anyone who didn't get (or got if you are looking in the mirror) water from Allah is a kafir. jeeehard

[krithivas]

The last time India provided disaster assistantship to Pakistan after earthquake - They wanted all references to India in the aid containers to be masked or erased.

R. Krithivas

[Rangudu]

The last time India provided disaster assistantship to Pakistan after earthquake - They wanted all references to India in the aid containers to be masked or erased.

Not to mention the aid diverted to LeT/JuD or the Delhi bomb blasts soon afterwards...

[Kanson]

^^^Agreed.

If TSP could pull off such a move - explicit JDAM blackmail by Afgn based Ilyas cashmiri types - it would have been tried by now. But then, with the yanks in Afgn, there's not enough plausible deniability yet. Perhaps.

The suitcase bum scenario ought to scare the bejeezus out of any sane desi only. If it can be done, it would have been done by now, am sure. Imagine TSP with 8-10 cheeni hand-delivered suitcase bums in our top 10 cities and then ISI HQ calls up Dilli to have a chat in private...

No way Des would allow the bluff to be called, IMO. The only way out is stalemate, if we had our own suitcases placed inside the private parts of enemy urban hubs. Stalemate.

So what if TSP had 20 Nukes in our top 20 cities? Why would ISI HQ call up Delhi? And what would they talk about? Me thinks that 20 Paki Nukes present in 20 Indian cities is equal to 10 Agnis in Rajashtan pointing at Pakistan. We don't need our own suitcases inside Pakistan.

Recently Shiv was doing his 'dance' on this subject that is suitcase sized nukes. The demonstrated yield of such weapon is in sub-KT. If it is higher to few KTs due to development in tech, it wont affect the city much. If that happens there wont be second-guess on who did that. All this 26/11 dosiers are meant to establish such links in such future case. And by this silly move, Pak has called the Wrath of God for such few KTs in few cities. Whereas we will be hurling several hundred KTs and MTs and initiative of starting such move will be with us.

[Venkarl]

I think what Shiv Garu is saying is more realistic and practical than what is being discussed about "Plausible" stuff.

I have translated what shiv has been shouting off the roof top to my illetelate blain in the following analogy and would like to shale with you peepuls

TSPA==Uniformed Monkey trained to attack SDRE desi wherever sighted.
Talibunnies== Ragtag wild monkey is just trained to attack if kafir is sighted.

Now, give these 2 monkeys a set of 10 stones and have them irritated from all directions. Following will be the reactions:

TSPA Monkey, if irritated from north, west, south and east....it is trained to throw those stones in the east where SDRE desis dwell. Sometimes, no such irritations come from east ...but still threatens to throw stones in the east if irritations occur from other directions. So all 10 stones meant for SDRE camp in the east irrespective of irritation's direction.

Talibunnies, have kafirs around them. West, North, South(Fiji ) and East. So there need not be any irritation. Just say "Hi" to them from any direction....a stone goes to that direction. In our current case, "Hi Hellos" from west (amrika, Israel, Europe and at last shia Iran) are frequent. So 6 stones for in those directions. Left are 4 stones. Chechnya attracts 1 stone to North...Uighur attracts another 2 stones to North West. 2 stones left for India and Australia...and India being UnIslamic since 700 AD attracts 1.5 and Oz deserves .5.

what shiv saab says is facing 10 stones is more dangerous than facing 1.5 stones.

And most here believe that the uniformed monkey is chained by amrika which in turn believes that uniformed monkey can talk to ragtag wild monkey as they share same language to not send anymore faisal monkeys to west by promising them that they'd leave the land of wild monkeys in 2011...which may work out for peepuls in west...

The arrangement mentioned in the blue ink is not in India's favor as all the 10 stones are still aimed in the east. So better vote for Ragtag Wild Monkeys to take over the land of Uniformed Monkeys who have those 10 stones.

P.S: Number of stones can be changed as per your liking but the result of such juice remains same.

[Lalmohan]

the problem with JDAM is not bum-blast, it is dirty-rads
even 1kg of Pu blasted with RDX will SHUT DOWN a whole metropolis

[shiv]

India and Pakistan have not fought conventional wars in the monsoon because slush prevents progress and the canals ae full - after all the canals are part and parcel of the anti-tank defences. In summer it's too hot. So wars have, in the past, been planned for winter or towards the end of the year.

But all this hardly matters for terrorism. For terrorism you have to get people in. The most convenient spot used to be Jammu and Kashmir up until 1999 or so. After 2002 the borders were more or less sealed and terrorists increasingly started coming in from Nepal and Bangladesh.

If you live in India and are educated and tend to read "statistics" like I do, you will, sooner or later find out that the policemen to population ratio in India is less than the "defined norms" that are used to put Norway and Finland at high ranks in the human development list and put India ranked 136 below China at 85.

If our security guys are so screwed up why do we not see Iraq type car bombs in India? Or Paki Marriott type ones? Mind you I am not wishing for one and guilt racks my mind as I type this because my childhood pisko kicks in and I was always taught as a child, in Kannada "apashakuna nudi beda" (Do not wish for bad things to happen) However as an avid statistics reader I know that our security people are doing a good job. I am safe today because of that. India is a haven for a terrorists with guns or bombs and they are not really getting through because of multiple factors - Intel, security as well as an alert and patriotic population by and large.

So one must ask, before nuclear bombs can be smuggled in and stashed away at 25 or even 5 cities in India why are we not having any truck bombs taking down temples or malls? Sorry. I have to say this - and perhaps these are the most foul words I have typed on BR, but please show me one RDX filled truck bomb in India. This is not a boast. It is a silent prayer for my nation followed by a statement of fact.

Indians on the ground are working hard to keep India secure because India's security is their security. With India's crowded markets and public spaces, terrorism is easy for the terrorist and an inability to bring India down by terrorism is not just luck. The work put in by silent patriots is almost never acknowledged on here. It is usually a tearful goodbye to a dead patriot or victim or an intense bout of cursing someone in the government. If the government is incompetent and patriots are no more who looks after security? Someone really does. Living in India, I can vouch for that.

I am grateful to them and I ask people to think before they talk of 25 hidden nukes placed by sleepers in cities. Nukes in India are hardly "plausibly deniable". RDX is perfectly deniable. Where are the truck bombs? Once you start seeing truck bombs and car bombs, it means that largish amounts of material are being smuggled in. The nukes might come next.

[shiv]

the problem with JDAM is not bum-blast, it is dirty-rads
even 1kg of Pu blasted with RDX will SHUT DOWN a whole metropolis

How? Can you do a scenario of 1 Kg Pu being mixed with 10 Kg RDX with a soosai bomber blowing himself up in say Brigade road in Bangalore. How would that shut Bangalore down? The area is built up. Winds are stopped by buildings. 10 Kg may bring the facade of one building down, There is intense local contamination. Then?

[Lalmohan]

i have only seen analysis for western metros but no reason to think india will be any less complacent. i am sure you know the medical effects of rad poisoning better than me, but the arguement hinges on the time taken to isolate the areas where dispersion has occured and to clean it up. actual casualties may end up being quite low (compared to baRa bum) - perhaps no more than a few hundred dying painful deaths over several weeks, but the strain on the city infrastructure and the panic created are immense (or so the studies say)

[anupmisra]

Allah has his own ways to punish.

Allah sees all and is all-knowing. He is rewarding the pious pakarabs with bountiful of water so that they stop complaining.

[anupmisra]

Hindu community calls for Army’s deployment in flooded areas

The Hindu community has called for deployment of Army in the flood-affected areas of Sindh to safeguard the lives of thousands of Hindus allegedly being looted by the locals.“Our families are being targeted at gun-point by the locals of their localities. About 95 shops and 50 houses have been ransacked and looted by the miscreants,”

And the Hindus in paastan mistakenly believe that the PA will protect them from their own kind?