J & K news and discussion

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Aug 2010 20:13

joshvajohn wrote:Ramay
We have to address the issue in a genuine way. Autonomy within Indian constitution does not mean we are giving them an independence. We are respecting the aspiration of the people who wish to have a kind of autonomy within India which would lead them to say that we are fine with this level of freedom rather than supporting the separatist movement. We cannot say there is none who wants a bit of autonomy in Kashmir. If we grant it there is a bigger opportunity for us to be morally high internatinally even to claim we have respected the aspirations of the people. In this way this kind of solution will not lead to a complete session of Kashmir rather an autonomy similar to some autonomous parliaments around the world but within one single nation. In this way we achieve two things - one is the issue is settled from our side once for all and also we are able to say to the outside world we have met the aspirations of the people within our own constition. This is better than what Vajpayee and Musharaff nearly agreed upon.

Great! After that lets give the same "autonomy" to the naxals, manipuris, nagas, banglas, etc. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Why should we have to consider the feelings of the outside world when this is purely internal matter? Kashmir doesn't need more "autonomy". The people of the valley need to get their lazy asses working in the private sector. That means slowly getting rid of 370 and treating the state like any other in India. Let them compete for a change rather than mooch off the Indian tax payer.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 11 Aug 2010 20:36

^^^Any thoughts on given autonomy to these radicals is pure madness.Today it is Kashmir tomorrow it will be Ghazwa-E- Hind apart from all the smaller autonomies mentioned above.Sad to see people on Bharat Rakshak advocating for it.

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Aug 2010 20:52

Debate on Autonomy is fine and dandy the idea of Federal nation in fact supports that but for holding such high flying moral talk one should first sanitize the political arena of terrorists like Geelani. Whoever floated this idea of autonomy with regards to J&K at this juncture is cleverly trying to shift the focus from real issue i.e. 'existence of anti-India elements in the valley who have over a period of time become politically more powerful than the state gobermund ' . The one's pelting stones in J&K under Geelani's command are not asking for 'Autonomy' and more importantly they won't stop at that. The pseudo intellectuals in Media and our think tank might obviously do '==' with other states like Nagaland.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Aug 2010 20:58

1 only has to contrast the iron fist treatment meted out to the Amarnath agitation protestors in Jammu compared to the kid glove treatment these stone-pelting gandus and those Naga-bandh-enforcers seem to be enjoying only.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Aug 2010 21:08

^
If only GOI can deal other insurgencies as harsh as they dealt Khalistan movement, India would have been far ahead by now

People fail to see the relationship between ideology and FP and why the world "community" talks about human rights only when it comes to ROP/ROL types.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Aug 2010 21:11

I searched for the word "autonomy" (case neutral) and could not find a single mention of it. Don't know how that has crept into discussion in media and BRF. If one deconstructs "MMS words" they have a genuine feelings with lethal meanings to current agitationists and Pakistanis and their Rats in J&K.
Can Anyone point out what para they are referring to while using the word "autonomy" in describing the offer by MMS.

Regards

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Aug 2010 21:11

joshvajohn:

MMS's autonomy proposal will not work for a host of reasons. Lets get the fundamental right in Kashmir:

1) The vast majority of KMs in and around the valley, minority they maybe when J&K is considered as a whole, want to separate: my gut is indepenedence under Uncle's tutelage so they get lots of goodies; TSP maybe second. But neverthless, they want out of India.

2) Despite lack of western-style or Chinese-style or TSP Pakijabi-style nationalism in India today, neverthless, vast majority of Indians do want to exist as a nation, there is still something called Indianess, and as long as that thread of unity is there, there is no way KM demands can be met.

3) TSP exists only to wrest Kashmir from India, it is in its jugular vein. As we speak, TSP is preparing for its ultimate nuke confrontation with India over Kashmir & beyond. TSP is not going to go down silently.

4) US-led west is playing the dirtiest, most ugliest, most viscous of real-politick with India over Kashmir. They know (as does TSP) they have us SDREs by our balls over Kashmir, Mirwaqiz Umar fukroo and the stone-pelting louts are useful idiots in this endeavour. Believe me, given the power of the west, a simple statement saying the religion-based separatism will have no support will quell the stone-pelting Mofos and the fukroos into silence. As it will TSP to a certain extent.

In lieu of the above 4 points, unless KMs are deracinated of their separatist mindset either voluntarily or forcefully, no amount of jobs package, no amount of autonomy proposals are going to work.

In modern contemporary world, the closest examples on how to "cleanse" a revolting people out of their separatist mindset are 1) USA's demolishing of any "negro" or black separatism: today blacks in USA have resigned themselves to white domination and guess what, there are even tons of nationalist Uncle Toms who are parroted on US media, 2) more recently, the wiping out of the LTTE in Sri Lanka. Tamils now have no choice to cut a deal with the Sinhalese.

Bottom line: India's best bet is to weather the Kashmir separatist storm for however long it takes. India definetly needs a game changer. But its powerful enough to withstand this status quo for the forseeable future. Only when the separatist sentiment in the valley shows signs of abating, and external influences are neutralized will any political solution based on a reasonable compromise work.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Aug 2010 21:33

But IMO, if this is an indicator of TSPA increasing the pressure on J&K and getting to stage II of this drama (stage I being piss full stone throwing) of increasing the pressure on GOI, then it is shooting itself in the feet, again. These piglets are not going to survive beyond couple of weeks after IA gets at them. The fate of piglets in 'stronghold' of Sopore is one small example.

Was wondering the same thing!! The pigLeTs seem to be overreaching with usual strategic brilliance thrown in.

A bit too much of the meaningless protests and over the top violence will only cause the IA and SoG/assorted forces to be let loose like in the good old days and then, the pigLeTs will crave for the pre- stone throwing and building burning days..

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 00:16

http://daveslandslideblog.blogspot.com/ ... india.html
has info. about Ladakh landslides

To date the number of known victims is reported to be 165 people, with a further 500 thought to be missing (with very little chance of survival now). However, Save the Children is reported to believe that the true toll is likely to be in excess of 1,000 because several affected villages have yet to be accessed. Localised heavy rainfall continues in the area, disrupting relief operations and causing further damage.

One of the most seriously affected towns was Choglamsar. This is the settlement in the foreground of the perspective Google Earth image below - the presence of the huge debris fan in the background is a clear sign of the processes that have allows the formation of the comparatively flat areas upon which the town is built:....

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 00:37

I seem to remember that elections in J&K and even other parts of India were considered to be a rigged joke, until the era of strong Chief Election Commissioners started, with T.N Seshan, I think. After that, confidence in the fairness of Indian elections even in the valley of Kashmir have increased.

One way of viewing the J&K problems is that it exposes the rotten aspects of Indian administration, which is not unique to J&K; it is just that Kashmiris are more likely to protest. E.g., just as I am sure (sorry, no citations to give you) that only 10% of the development budget allocated by the government actually makes it to the target population in Bihar, a similar figure probably holds good for J&K as well. If we fix a problem on an all-India level, it will also fix the problem in J&K.

Now onto autonomy:If you dissect what autonomy might mean in the Indian context, it could be that the experience of poor governance leads to the idea that "autonomy" will lead to a more locally responsible and hence more responsive government. This is rather different from "independence". IMO, the demand for new states is often driven by this experience of poor governance and the (mistaken) idea that dividing things will improve things.

What will really improve things is better governance, in exactly the same vein as the improvement in conduct of elections.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 00:42

^^^Sir, can You give me one reason that India has to post maybe 1/5th of its army in kashmir( or nearby) and not bihar? Waiting for an answer so we can take this further.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Aug 2010 01:08

Manishw:

The answer is not obvious to you? Because the Kasmiri Muslim bigots in clollusion with Paki LETpiglets, army, and ISI will run amuck otherwise. Do you get it? And India ain't going to let go off our own territory just because a few million bigots claim is that they look a certain direction and pray 5 times a day and hence deserve their separatist sentiment to be respected.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 01:20

CRAMS Ji , the answer is crystal clear to me, the person posting above me has some blinkered views either intentionally or not I don't know(better to go through the rest of his posts to get a better idea).I was trying to trash his logic in a systematic way, but he never turned up after that.
As far as I am concerned the radicals M's in kashmir should be given a one way ticket to either their 72 or to pukistan and article 370 should be abolished completely and flooded with indics ASAP

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Aug 2010 01:25

CRamS wrote:Manishw:
The answer is not obvious to you? Because the Kasmiri Muslim bigots in clollusion with Paki LETpiglets, army, and ISI will run amuck otherwise. Do you get it? And India ain't going to let go off our own territory just because a few million bigots claim is that they look a certain direction and pray 5 times a day and hence deserve their separatist sentiment to be respected.

And they and many of us keep pretending of this fundamental ignorance!!
Any Indian who provide aid and comfort to such people and separist efforts is nothing but enemy of india and Indians .
Having said that, these foollish fuddu folks forget indians stubborness and staying power .Sooner they realize and take the fig leaf ,more of them will be able to have good chance of having kids.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 01:32

^^^ CRAMS ji at the risk of being branded hitleresque or worse, my considered opinion is that the particular poster above you and me is playing Taqqiya here for a long time.Just a look at his profile and his posts suffices me in my beliefs.

JMT anybody pls feel free to disagree and other standars disclaimers apply.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 01:44

Manishw wrote:CRAMS Ji , the answer is crystal clear to me, the person posting above me has some blinkered views either intentionally or not I don't know(better to go through the rest of his posts to get a better idea).I was trying to trash his logic in a systematic way, but he never turned up after that.
As far as I am concerned the radicals M's in kashmir should be given a one way ticket to either their 72 or to pukistan and article 370 should be abolished completely and flooded with indics ASAP

I have better things to do with my time

PS: since you've gotten personal, I should say too, that I seemed to have stumbled into a small den of morons.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 01:57

Certainly, many Kashmiri Muslims of the Srinagar valley have no emotional attachment to the concept of India. But if past experience is any guide, it is possible to have a situation where they live peaceably within India. There have been long and intermittent stretches of such.

Aside: after all the brave talk of "managing Pakistan's failure" the only solution to J&K is sending them to their 72s? :LOL:

Why do Biharis not riot? Because they do have more of an attachment to India. ( Secondly, there is the Maoist movement too, which should be understood also as a rebellion against bad governance, not a rebellion against India.)

India is not going to give independence to any rebels. Nor does "autonomy" carry much meaning. It will not solve anything, even if granted. The root cause of dissatisfaction is "the system doesn't work". Fix the system, not specifically for J&Kers but for all of India.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Aug 2010 02:00

Build peace, solution will follow: PM to Kashmir
http://sify.com/news/build-peace-soluti ... ceedj.html

PM's autonomy-for-Kashmir talk fails to cut ice
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pms-autonomy ... 37-64.html

CPI-M supports 'maximum autonomy' for Kashmir
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 270125.cms

Only autonomy can rebuild trust in J&K : MP
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 286998.cms

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Aug 2010 02:04

A_Gupta wrote:Certainly, many Kashmiri Muslims of the Srinagar valley have no emotional attachment to the concept of India. But if past experience is any guide, it is possible to have a situation where they live peaceably within India. There have been long and intermittent stretches of such.

I doubt AG-ji!

This sense of alienation is nurtured carefully. Till 1947 JK has similar status as many states in BI, right?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Aug 2010 02:06

A_Gupta:

Boss, you & I go back quite a bit, so I have nothing but utmost respect for you and your talents. So, please I don't have a dog in this fight. I was only replying.

On the above point you make on fixing the system, absolutely dead on. As an example, take USA. I would say 99+% of immigrants, and even those with Jihadi sentimens, and Muslims who are seething with anger at US policies post 9/11, will neverthless admire and marvel at the manner in which Americans conduct themselves domestically, respecting the rule of law. So, I can bet you, even if there are ex patriate Paki suicide bombers ready to do what Faisal Shezaad did, there are quite a few expatriate Pakis would turn the Faizal Shezaads in, if for nothing else out of respect and fear for the way US runs its country.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Aug 2010 02:29

If one listens carefully to MMS's statement, he does refer to sustained dialouge both internally and externally. Obvious external reference being TSP. Wonder how Kiyani/Paasha will respond through Mirwaiz Fukroo?

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 12 Aug 2010 03:32

Seven idols rescued from Srinagar Jain Mandir, brought to Ahmedabad

Seven Jain idols are taken to Ahmedabad from Srinagar’s Baghawan Parshwanath Jain Mandir. The idols are at present, temporarily kept at Ahmedabad’s Sangath Jain derasar. They will be shifted to Sabarmati area’s Ramnagar based Jain Mandir this Sunday in festive atmosphere.

The Sunni islamist anti-nationals of Kashmir, recently destroyed a Jain Mandir located on the banks of Alaknanda river in Kashmir valley’s Srinagar city. However, before they could do any harm to the idols, tha Jain Mandir’s priest took the idols out of the Mandir and shifted them to safer place.

Just in two hours of relaxation of curfew, the idols were immediately taken out of the Kashmir valley and are now brought to Ahmedabad, where they will be installed at Ramnagar/Sabarmati based Jain Mandir this Sunday with ceremonial welcome.

http://deshgujarat.com/2010/08/11/7-jai ... ahmedabad/

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 12 Aug 2010 07:24

Another cloudburst in J&K this time in the Kashmir region of the state:

Cloudburst caused flash floods in Khonmoh and Balhama areas of Srinagar district during the intervening night, damaging property and crops worth crores of rupees but there was no loss of life in the incident.

More than 1740 souls at Khonmoh and 280 souls at Balhama were affected while more than 3300 kanals of paddy, orchards and saffron fields were washed away. As many as 285 structures were damaged at Khonmoh and 33 at Balhama.

And as always it's the army to the rescue:

The Army was instrumental not only in evacuating the populace but also able to extricate valuable and household goods of the villagers. Further, the Army has provided temporary accommodation in terms of tents, fresh water, medical assistance and most importantly provisioning of rations. In the ongoing relief operations Army helicopters have been requisitioned to drop essential engineering equipment to drain out the stagnant water so that the people can come back to their houses in an early time frame.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Aug 2010 07:40

joshvajohn wrote:Ramay
We have to address the issue in a genuine way. Autonomy within Indian constitution does not mean we are giving them an independence. We are respecting the aspiration of the people who wish to have a kind of autonomy within India which would lead them to say that we are fine with this level of freedom rather than supporting the separatist movement. We cannot say there is none who wants a bit of autonomy in Kashmir. If we grant it there is a bigger opportunity for us to be morally high internatinally even to claim we have respected the aspirations of the people. In this way this kind of solution will not lead to a complete session of Kashmir rather an autonomy similar to some autonomous parliaments around the world but within one single nation. In this way we achieve two things - one is the issue is settled from our side once for all and also we are able to say to the outside world we have met the aspirations of the people within our own constition. This is better than what Vajpayee and Musharaff nearly agreed upon.

Will you then proceed to provide "autonomy" to hyderabad, junagadh and what ever else?

Why not goa while we are at it? The portuguese are still unhappy. Now they also desperately need the money.

Why not accomodate the maoists? After all they are our "bayz" as per darzi shivaraj patil.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 07:42

FYI: Saudi Gazette:
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cf ... 12/08/2010

All this may seem far-fetched but the fact is that events in Kashmir in the past two months have pricked the conscience of Indians across the country.

The newspapers, even the vernacular press, are full of articles about the tragedy of the poor Kashmiris. A kinship seems to be developing, even in distant south India. There is some acceptance that the Kashmir problem is not quite one of religious and cross-border extremism and that the Kashmiris too must be included in India’s fast evolving economic success story.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 12 Aug 2010 10:14

There is some acceptance that the Kashmir problem is not quite one of religious and cross-border extremism and that the Kashmiris too must be included in India’s fast evolving economic success story.

This report should go into the Humour thread, IMHO

. Honestly I have not seen any much support for the Kashmiri freeloaders in South India, except the regular contingent of commies and other peace-niks, who most likely would not have stepped into Kashmir, nor have relatives (in defence and police) in that place. Sitting on a moral high horse this variety can sermonise to the rest of the people.

The tone of the article is that some body else (not Kashmiris) should take the owner-ship in including Kashmiri's in Indias economic success story. It is exactly this sort of entitlement mentality which is causing harm. Kashmiris have every single oppurtunity which is available to an Indian citizen. If Kashmir does not have enough job openings, well sir packup a neat little bag, march to Jammu Tawi RS and then you have the rest of the country for you to find a living. Instead of that if they focus on stuff like stone throwing and attacking security forces, they will be treated as riot-mongers.

People in this forum have mentioned this again and again. Kashmiris cannot remain freeloaders and expect other people to feed them for ever.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 10:34

A_Gupta wrote: The newspapers, even the vernacular press, are full of articles about the tragedy of the poor Kashmiris. A kinship seems to be developing, even in distant south India. There is some acceptance that the Kashmir problem is not quite one of religious and cross-border extremism and that the Kashmiris too must be included in India’s fast evolving economic success story.

The right to other people's resources just by the fact that they exist have been top priority for these radicals.Jazziya at its best.Well thought out article though maybe from the radical Islamists P.O.V.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Aug 2010 10:37

They have already got disproportionate share of funds from the Federal Govt. Moreover, regular strikes are hardly the best way towards inclusion in India's fast evolving economic success story.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 12:02

These people want nothing short of 'Sharia Law' and separation from India.Their suave supporters then try to give various excuses as to why these things should be given to them(though in step by step fashion so that it is palatable to the rest of Indians(ala the boiling frog theory).They bring out issues of governance which nobody can disagree with and then proceed to propagate their hidden agenda.If I were to say their should be universal peace and brotherhood who can dispute me? but carrying it to the level that all kashmiris want is peace and Indians being the Dharmics that they are should grant them the freedom to break away from the federation is a totally different ball game.
Look at the source provided to buttress their claims The Great" Saudi Gazette"

Added Later:

These people say Quote
Aside: after all the brave talk of "managing Pakistan's failure" the only solution to J&K is sending them to their 72s? :LOL: unquote

Their is another another talk , brave or cowardly I don't know which was proposed that Remove article 370 and flood the valley with Indics. See how conveniently that is ignored to show 'kaffirs' like me in a poor light.Nice psyops

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Aug 2010 18:03

This great bong chap has written a rocker of a piece here.

Pls disseminate far and wide only.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Aug 2010 18:38

^^^ rocker and roller, baap re!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Aug 2010 18:40

chetak wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Ramay
We have to address the issue in a genuine way. Autonomy within Indian constitution does not mean we are giving them an independence. We are respecting the aspiration of the people who wish to have a kind of autonomy within India which would lead them to say that we are fine with this level of freedom rather than supporting the separatist movement. We cannot say there is none who wants a bit of autonomy in Kashmir. If we grant it there is a bigger opportunity for us to be morally high internatinally even to claim we have respected the aspirations of the people. In this way this kind of solution will not lead to a complete session of Kashmir rather an autonomy similar to some autonomous parliaments around the world but within one single nation. In this way we achieve two things - one is the issue is settled from our side once for all and also we are able to say to the outside world we have met the aspirations of the people within our own constition. This is better than what Vajpayee and Musharaff nearly agreed upon.
Will you then proceed to provide "autonomy" to hyderabad, junagadh and what ever else?

Why not goa while we are at it? The portuguese are still unhappy. Now they also desperately need the money.

Why not accomodate the maoists? After all they are our "bayz" as per darzi shivaraj patil.

Those are easy questions. I would throw some spanner into works.

Would you grant Autonomy to Gujarat or Tirumala/Tirupati? How about Autonomy to Amarnath Caves in JK state? Do you see the drift?

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Aug 2010 18:41

J&K autonomy possible on political consensus: Manmohan
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/l ... ?nid=25273

Autonomy cannot solve Kashmir issue: Mehbooba Mufti
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/pol ... 11236.html

Autonomy means giving more powers to the state assembly first. Possibly we may grant a parliament similar to Scottish one. But it will continue to work with and under Indian Parliament. The state will be under the Indian constitution and protection. Their share of taxes can be increased.

The question of integration of the rest of Kashmir is possible only with Pakistan and India agreeing to allow the power sharing and joint armed protection. Now under the circumstances of Pakistan supporting indirectly the terror and also not able to control the terror in their own country such trust and colloboration is impossible.

But granting them an autonomy within the government may not lead many others to ask for similar autonomy. That is why I also suggested that we divide Jammu and Kashmir into two states. If one plans for a radical step then one has the courage to implement too. The people in Kashmir should be educated that India is fast growing country with freedom while Pakistan is a failing country with terrorism. Also people there should also educated that without India having a mind to give autonomy Pakistan alone cannot do anything for them. Otherwise this confrontation can only lead to a conflict and loss of life. India will not behave like Srilanka or China or even PAkistan in cleansing people on the basis of religion or language or race. At the same time India cannot be forced by anyone to do anything in relationto Kashmir and so what is offered the political parties in Kashmir should look carefully and consider it. For the sake of Peace the political mind in Kashmir should consider what is offered on the table carefully and work on it.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Aug 2010 18:45

joshvajohn wrote: But granting them an autonomy within the government may not lead many others to ask for similar autonomy. That is why I also suggested that we divide Jammu and Kashmir into two states. If one plans for a radical step then one has the courage to implement too. The people in Kashmir should be educated that India is fast growing country with freedom while Pakistan is a failing country with terrorism. Also people there should also educated that without India having a mind to give autonomy Pakistan alone cannot do anything for them. Otherwise this confrontation can only lead to a conflict and loss of life. India will not behave like Srilanka or China or even PAkistan in cleansing people on the basis of religion or language or race. At the same time India cannot be forced by anyone to do anything in relationto Kashmir and so what is offered the political parties in Kashmir should look carefully and consider it. For the sake of Peace the political mind in Kashmir should consider what is offered on the table carefully and work on it.

I like what you say overall. The only issue I would have, if I have all the details like MMS would, be whether it is "necessary" to use force to bring down these anti-national and jihadi elements that are living and thriving at the cost of rest of India. GOI didn't have that problem with Khalistan militancy, why should it have a problem now? I just do not want take any option off the table. There should definitely a reward (in fact double that) for good behavior, but it should come with a big stick to discourage rowdy behavior.

Again, my humble thoughts only.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 18:53

Why the big stick for 'Khalistanis' and kid glove approach to radical Kashmiris?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Aug 2010 19:29

Just my gut feel (so TIFIW)

That is because these issues are associated with non-indic faiths and would (potential or perceived or real) attract international responses. Even Khalistan movement had some external support but that is limited to external players' geo-political self-interests not civilization-level self interests. That is why their support for Khalistan movement didn't resonate with internal constituency.

That is ONE (there could be other) root-cause I see at this point.

Few examples (cannot give entire picture but facts nevertheless) and you can think which one of them attracted international criticism and which didn't

- Taliban destroying Bamian Buddhas
- Destruction of Shia shrines in Iraq by AQ/Iraqi terrorists/insurgents
- Suicide bombings on various mosques in Pakiland
- Indian Mujahidin attacks on Churches in India
- Khandamal murder of Swami Lakshmanananda
- Babri Masjid demolition
- Sriramsena attack on church in K'taka
- Attacks on churches by Islamic jihadis (you can find a partial list here - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks)
- Attacks on Mosques by Islamic Jihadis (refer above link)
- A bomb attack (intentional or unintentional) by US forces on a Mosque
- IA action against Hajratbal shrine
- Bomb blast at Saibaba temple in Hyderabad
- Bomb blast at Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad

and so on...

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 19:32

..I know Ramay Ji I Know but question is when will India grow a spine or are we as a nation and civilization condemned for ever now?

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 12 Aug 2010 19:40

Manishw wrote:Why the big stick for 'Khalistanis' and kid glove approach to radical Kashmiris?

Cracking down on the Kashmiri radicals like India did with the Khalistanis will not sit well with various vote-banks around the country. After all Congress is secular onlee and not communal.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Aug 2010 19:44

^ Before doing anything, it has to know what IT is. Rightnow (again my gut feeling - so no proof but just an action here, a statement there, a response here, a claim there type) Indian majority (Deamante matti kadoy desamante manushuloy = a country is not just a physical landmass, it’s what people make it up to be) thinks that it is an artificial nation created by British and started its existence in 1947.

That is what makes them think that JK is right to nurture separatist tendencies. Once you break above paradigm and understand what India is (this is where people blame us retrogressive thinkers) then they do not think/believe that JK is different from rest of India. Once that realization sets in, then they will stop treating JK like a step-son and start demanding that JK behaves as its behavior has direct impact on your lineage (meaning your future). Right now Indian majority thinks that is future is not bound by JK. Once JK becomes an essential part of Indian future, then the overall payoffs increase on both sides of the spectrum (carrot/stick).

In such a scenario MMS (or GOI) would say that JK solution is as essential to Indian future/progress as trade/economy is; and come up with suitable strategies.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 19:56

@ Ramay Ji , which people are you talking about?Nobody I have met in India who does not believe that J& K is an integral part of India.We have been tamed and brainwashed by the so called' secular media and education that nobody remembers atrocities of past. Even then people have not forgotten and kept the Indic light Alight but these politicos make them run for 'do waq ki Roti' and materialism the whole day what options are left to them?The Iron hand is reserved only for indics and I consider Khalistanis as Indics (no matter how controversial it may sound) and kid glove treatment for vote bank politics.