Indian Military Aviation

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2010 09:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8xzcan ... re=related

above video shows it is telescoping and extended only for refueling. cant help it if pilot error or gust of wind chops off the pipe.
must be made of flimsy material to let the blades cut it easily.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 05 Aug 2010 10:44

Singha wrote: very niche role though...onlee useful in Eagle Claw type ops. I think we can manage without it.

The C-130 also refuels fixed-wing aircraft like the SH (and presumably the MKI)

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 Aug 2010 11:37

Luxtor wrote:Currently many parts of our borders are not covered by fixed radar. So as part of the Samyukta project these gaps will need to be filled with new radars and all air defense/surveillance radars + EW/ECM systems will be linked to a central location so real time picture of what's happening around the outside of the entire borders of the country can be monitored. This is essential if we get into a war with the pukis, because we would want to know what their chicom friends would be doing to help them out by harassing us, trying to divert our attention and our resources away from our fight with the pukis.

Possible. Just that I was explaining what I was told during my interaction with the exhibitor. I also said, that it was in 2005. The user requirement must have come up now. It makes a lot of sense to put up LRDE developed radars on the border.

I just don't want to go beyond my brief.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 Aug 2010 17:10

DRDO and Indian Air Force ink agreement on production of computerized pilot selection system

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Aug 2010 17:13

Singha wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8xzcan ... re=related

above video shows it is telescoping and extended only for refueling. cant help it if pilot error or gust of wind chops off the pipe.
must be made of flimsy material to let the blades cut it easily.

It was a gust. But it looks dangerous and if fuel had been flowing a sharp blow that cuts anything could create just enough energy to ignite fuel. Heck a bad swing in golf produces a spark between metallic head and non metallic ball or earth. It is desperately bad design to create a situation where such cutting can occur in a place where one can expect the worst possible gusts - a huge tanker's wake and high winds at altitude.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 05 Aug 2010 17:40

AOA

AN 178 for the MTA: http://ifile.it/twcx8gi/AN%20178%20for%20MTA.jpg

Garuda 2010

http://ifile.it/0dfu9cs/GARUDA%202010.jpg

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Aug 2010 17:49

Saw the LCA nosecone hack HS 748 taking off today. I got lucky. The Air Force and HAL have spies waiting on the airport road watching for me and all takeoffs are stopped while I am in the area.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2010 18:19

we need to seed wind tunnel road with brf moles same way bagmane/kagadasapura is covered.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Aug 2010 18:21

andy B wrote:AOA

AN 178 for the MTA: http://ifile.it/twcx8gi/AN%20178%20for%20MTA.jpg

Garuda 2010

http://ifile.it/0dfu9cs/GARUDA%202010.jpg

Thanks for these , The AN 178 is a very viable option as the delivery and induction could be much faster as it is based on proven airframe , may be later on we can join the An-70 program.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 05 Aug 2010 18:38

shiv wrote:Saw the LCA nosecone hack HS 748 taking off today. I got lucky. The Air Force and HAL have spies waiting on the airport road watching for me and all takeoffs are stopped while I am in the area.

To be honest, when any neta is around all flights are stopped. Have you come out of retirement in a new profession?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Aug 2010 20:16

This is strictly be in the IN domain.

The IN had operated sea planes earlier.

Any thing maritime should remain with in IN.

http://www.asianage.com/india/iaf-may-g ... planes-542

IAF may get 6 sea planes
Aug 02nd, 2010 - Sridhar Kumaraswami | New Delhi

In a bid to boost security around the strategic tri-services Andaman and Nicobar Command and ensure adequate surveillance over the island chain, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is considering acquisition of about six amphibious sea planes that can operate from sea.
“Acquisition of amphibious sea-planes is being considered since these have a much longer range than helicopters which need helipads to land on. The sea planes will be used to move personnel to any of the islands in the chain, many of which are uninhabited. Sea-planes will also perform the task of surveillance,” explained a source.
Most of the islands in the chain are rocky and considered unsuitable for building of helipads on these. Proposed acquisition of the sea planes could come at a cost of over Rs 200 crores.
Following the Mumbai terror attacks, the threat perception of terrorists using the sea route has increased enormously. Further, the government is also anxious to ensure that no terror group is able to operate from and take over any of the uninhabited islands that form part of Indian territory.
Acquisition of amphibious sea planes by the IAF will also boost India’s maritime power and will augment the proposed growth in the aircraft and fleet strength of the Indian Navy which is hoping to acquire more indigenous aircraft carriers and naval fighter aircraft MiG-29 K apart from submarines with air independent propulsion (AIP) and stealth frigates that will be built at Indian shipyards.
In fact, experts at a government conference held last year in the Andamans had called for the establishment of a nuclear power station in one of the islands in the chain and also bases from where aircraft carriers and nuclear-powered submarines could operate.
Experts believe that the tri-services Andaman and Nicobar Command will have an increased significance in the next decade, considering the strategic location of the island.
The Andaman and Nicobar Islands are geographically located closer to Southeast Asia than even the Indian mainland and give India a strategic presence in the Southeast Asian region.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2010 20:46

Bereiev offers a ambhibian with the sea dragon lrmp suite same as we got on the Mays. I am sure customising it will be possible.
range is quite good @ 11,000km ... it is a ambhibian version of the Bear. a smaller ambhibian with 1000km range is also on the table
for austere CG type roles.

http://www.beriev.com/eng/core_e.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2010 21:07

ambhibians will be possible to operate only if there are sheltered bays offering good clear water and jettys to dock it. relatively cheap to start ops without much land infra.

but long term we need atleast 4 major land airbases along the chain to deal with the PLAN/PLAAF from solid footing.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Aug 2010 22:31

I can't download the MTA file, so please clarify this query (who may have read it) - is the AN-178 derived from the commercial AN-148/158 short-haul airliner? If so, what is being done to enhance the payload capacity from present ~10tonnes to 18tonnes planned for MTA?
Thanx.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Aug 2010 22:57

rohit, AN-178 is indeed derived from An-148 and expected to have a payload of 15 tonnes supported by higher thrust engines than An-148.

MTA is a separate project based on IL-214.

worryingly, the article says that all russian players including the RuAF are now interested in the An-178 and not the IL-214 and they are trying to convince India to drop IL-214 and join AN-178 where our requirements for higher payload would be met by a different version of the An aircraft.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 05 Aug 2010 22:58

Whats the latest on MTA ? When does it take off ? Does it ever ? Whats causing the delay ?

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 05 Aug 2010 23:01

ambhibians will be possible to operate only if there are sheltered bays offering good clear water and jettys to dock it. relatively cheap to start ops without much land infra.

Singha sir,
I think it is not mandatory as i think the bereiev amphibian can land and take off from sea,land and also land in sea and come onto the land on its own power.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 06 Aug 2010 00:06

Rahul M wrote:rohit, AN-178 is indeed derived from An-148 and expected to have a payload of 15 tonnes supported by higher thrust engines than An-148.

MTA is a separate project based on IL-214.

worryingly, the article says that all russian players including the RuAF are now interested in the An-178 and not the IL-214 and they are trying to convince India to drop IL-214 and join AN-178 where our requirements for higher payload would be met by a different version of the An aircraft.

OK. Many thanx. if the idea is to go with AN-158, then not only the engines but the entire fuselage section and wings will need to re-designed. While An-158 has almost same dimensions as IL-214, the payload is significantly lesser at ~10tonnes. Will use of An-158 as base somehow reduce the timeframe of development and total/Unit cost?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 06 Aug 2010 01:34

As per the article linked by andy, the cost for An-178 is expected to be around $25-30million each. Assuming cost overruns, it would probably end up around $45 million.

By contrast, C130J ends up around $80-90 million each. Would have been good if IAF standardized on C130J, but given the huge cost difference, they will probably go with a Russian aircraft.

Which is the An-312 aircraft in the table in that report?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2010 09:38

Probably the Ukrainian and RuAF do not see the reason to reinvent the wheel when An-178 can meet most of the needs and is based on the commerically proven platform greatly reducing flight testing , money , risk and induction time.

The IL-214 is certainly a more capable platform but it will be a new build one and will go through a lengthy series of flight testing program which comes with its own share of risk , cost overruns and delays

Certainly the An-178 exceeds the performance of An-32 in many parameters which is what MTA is suppose to replace , if RuAF and Ukranian AF is interested in inducting these and if future longer stretched version with better engines can bring it close to IAF MTA goals then its a good deal , much better if export revenue can be generated for sales. Who know we may replace one An with another better An

johnny_m · Post by **johnny_m** » 06 Aug 2010 10:18

Well if the Project reaches an Impasse I suggest we scrap it all together and look to Brazil for the License production with full ToT of the Embarer KC 390. It can carry 21 tons

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 09 Aug 2010 05:06

IAF Transports BSNL Equipment to Leh

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Aug 2010 02:19

Q. for Jagan et al.: Is the list of squadrons and their AF stations on B-R IAF site, up-to-date?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 10 Aug 2010 08:28

Sorry if posted earlier

Test range in Chitradurga coming up

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source ... ZcdQ1UwUdA

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 10 Aug 2010 19:40

Update on Indian Air Force’s 128 Jaguar fighter jets re-engines contract- US Vs UK

The battle to re-engine the Indian Air Force’s 128 Jaguar fighter jets is in full throttle, with Britain’s Rolls Royce and US’ Honeywell International taking the war back home right inside the rarefied offices of South Block.

British Prime Minister David Cameron’s recent comments in Bangalore on the "export of terror" by Pakistan have enormously pleased the Indian strategic establishment, but the fact is that India is already gearing up for the November visit of US President Barack Obama and is keenly aware that there is nothing like a defence deal to sweeten the mood.

For example, the Jaguar engine deal is worth an estimated $670 million, a lucrative sum in the recession-hit economies of the US and the UK and definitely welcome in an era of rising unemployment, emptying treasuries and never-ending body bags from the AfPak war front.

the US government is hoping that India will also favour Honeywell’s F125IN thrust class engine over Rolls Royce’s Adour MK 821engine for its Jaguar fleet.

http://sify.com/finance/us-pushes-defen ... caghe.html

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Aug 2010 20:37

kvraghav wrote:
ambhibians will be possible to operate only if there are sheltered bays offering good clear water and jettys to dock it. relatively cheap to start ops without much land infra.
Singha sir,
I think it is not mandatory as i think the bereiev amphibian can land and take off from sea,land and also land in sea and come onto the land on its own power.

The amphibians would find it difficult to land in rough seas. They generally operate from relatively sheltered coves and need to be beached for anything more than routine maintenance.

Their engines are marinised, like naval aero engines and specifically need much more maintenance than normal engines because of the much heavier ingestion of salt spray.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Aug 2010 13:25

US DoD No.3 In Delhi, After Hawking UAVs To Pak

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/us ... -uavs.html

The US is working hard to (a) get the contentious CISMOA/LSA/BECA troika of agreements concluded, and (b) finish up all the paperwork for at least one big deal that could be signed during President Obama's visit. Sources say, this could either be the deal for 10 C-17 heavy transports (in the bag, for all practical purposes) or the follow-on deal for six more C-130Js (also in the bag, for all practical purposes). Other high-value deals awaiting decisions or in process of evaluations, apart from the MMRCA, include ultralight howitzers, attack and heavylift rotorcraft and the re-engining bid for the IAF Jaguar fleet.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 11 Aug 2010 19:58

X-post

Full Sukhoi squadron in Tezpur, next in Chabua

A full squadron of Sukhoi-30 warplanes have been deployed at Assam's Tezpur air base, while another squadron is expected to be brought to upper Assam base of Chabua by the end of the year. The full complement of Sukhoi fighter jets arrived at Tezpur this June and the squadron is operational, defence sources said.

The air base at Chabua is being upgraded to house the warplanes which will subsequently replace the ageing MIGs. The sources said the runway, taxi track, hanger and other airfield infrastructure at Chabua air base is being upgraded.

Besides the Sukhois, the sources said once the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal is through, Air Force would deploy some of the squadrons in the eastern sector. Currently, trials are being conducted with aircraft of six manufacturers for the 126 aircraft deal, officials said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Aug 2010 22:52

tezpur and chabua are slated to house 2 sqdns of mki each eventually.

perhaps jorhat and guwahati can also be upgraded as fighter bases. both have airports and guwahati atleast has enough land and infra to support sqdrns of fighters, at present only some Mi17s/An32 operate from there.

eggs need to be spread all around the basket.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Aug 2010 23:04

Singha wrote:tezpur and chabua are slated to house 2 sqdns of mki each eventually.

perhaps jorhat and guwahati can also be upgraded as fighter bases. both have airports and guwahati atleast has enough land and infra to support sqdrns of fighters, at present only some Mi17s/An32 operate from there.

eggs need to be spread all around the basket.

Singha, Jorhat has IAF base...home to AN-32 Squadron. While earlier the relativr short-legs of MiG-2X may have been an issue with basing fighters in Jorhat, with newer a/c and AAR, that should not be an issue. Also, offers quite a lot of depth for managing the Air-Ops in NE.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Aug 2010 23:37

atleast 10 fighter bases needed east of bagdogra. one has to assume the PRC will target them all with LACMs and SRBMs. good dispersal, hardening and repair facilities, dual runways, underground hangers etc...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 12 Aug 2010 10:35

Not to forget a good SAM cover.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 12 Aug 2010 20:12

AOA

Better late then never!!!
IAF gets permission to fire at Naxals in self-defence

"The IAF helicopter crew will not use the conventional heavy fire power weapons such as rockets and other guns on board, but only the sideward-mounted machine guns. They will use the weapons only if fired upon," the sources said.

"Fortunately, in these months that we have been allowed to defend our assets, there has been no occasion when we had to use the sideward-mounted guns," they said.

The IAF, the sources said, had obtained the government's approval recently to withdraw 17 of its Mi-17 helicopters that are currently in operation with various UN missions.

Once the number of its helicopters increased, it could think of sparing more choppers for the paramilitary forces that were combating the Maoists after assessing the situation, the sources said.

They said for the use of its helicopters in Maoist-hit areas, the IAF had asked the state police and the paramilitary to take a number of precautions such as sanitising the helipad areas.

"If the Naxals have rockets, as it is being suggested, the security forces would sanitise the area up to the range of these rockets, be it 600 metres or more, from the helipads," the sources said.

Admitting that the IAF had imposed an 80-hour per month per helicopter limit for flying, they said it had, in fact, done more hour-sorties in the last four months than the prescribed limit.

The helicopters had done an average of 169 hours in April, 91 hours in May, 118 hours in June and 89 hours in July this year, they said, denying media reports that the IAF had refused to fly in the Naxal-affected regions during certain operations recently.

They said the time limit was set as per IAF's norms for all its helicopters, keeping in mind the maintenance and repairs required for these machines after they had flown for a specified number of hours.

It was also to have a certain number of platforms available for operations at any given time.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 13 Aug 2010 02:07

IAF going in for massive upgrade of airfields, helipads

NEW DELHI: From new Sukhoi-30MKI bases at Chabua (Assam), Halwara (Punjab) and Jodhpur (Rajasthan) to one for Tejas fighters in Sulur (Tamil Nadu), IAF is going in for a massive upgrade of its airfield and helipad infrastructure across the country.

This will not only bolster operational logistics and flexibility on both the eastern and western fronts with China and Pakistan, apart from plugging existing gaps over central and peninsular India, but also make IAF airbases more accessible to civilian aircraft.

This is in tune with IAF's aim to have 42 fighter squadrons by 2022, up from the existing 32, with progressive induction of 270 Sukhois, 126 multi-role combat aircraft, 120 indigenous Tejas Light Combat aircraft and the first lot of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft to be developed with Russia.

A major endeavour in all this is the soon-to-be-launched MAFI (modernisation of airfield infrastructure) programme, under which 30 of IAF's 51 operational airbases will be upgraded in Phase-I over 42 months.

" Commercial negotiations with the Tata Power-led consortium for MAFI Phase-I, at a cost of around Rs 1,300 crore, is in the final stages now. Bhatinda airbase will be taken up as the pilot project,'' said a source.

Under Phase-II, remaining IAF, Army, Navy and Coast Guard airfields will be modernised. The upgrade includes resurfacing, expansion and lighting of runways for night operations as well as installation of new tactical navigational (TACAN), instrument landing (Cat-2 ILS), air traffic management and air-to-ground radio communication (RCAG) systems.

The North-East is a major thrust area, with upgrade of airbases in Chabua, Dibrugarh, Jorhat, Mohanbari, Hasimara, Guwahati and Bagdogra, among others. The Tezpur airbase already houses Sukhois after it underwent an upgrade last year.

Then, after reactivating western sector ALGs (advanced landing grounds) like Daulat Beg Oldi, Fukche and Nyama in eastern Ladakh, IAF is now concentrating on upgrading eastern sector ALGs like Pasighat, Mechuka, Walong, Tuting, Ziro and Vijaynagar as well as several helipads in Arunachal.

This is meant to strategically counter China's massive build-up of military infrastructure all along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control, which includes 14 airbases directed against India in Tibet.

The focus on the western front, of course, remains as sharp as before. The Phalodi airbase in Rajasthan, just 102 km away from the Pakistan border, for instance, began fighter operations earlier this year.

"The aim is to make all the bases capable of operating all kinds of aircraft. This will, for instance, allow our IL-78 mid-air refuellers to support fighters from virtually anywhere in the country,'' said the source.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 13 Aug 2010 04:08

IAF to Airlift Heavy Bridging Equipment to Leh
VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! But help is arriving a little too slow, wish the center allocates more funds here than paying Rs 4500 on toilet papers for CWG!!!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 13 Aug 2010 09:19

From the above link:

"With airlift of BSNL and Army's communication equipment, IAF IL-76s are now readying to airlift 190 tonnes of the projected 800 tonnes load of vital bridging equipment, primarily bailey bridges, from Pathankote in Punjab to Leh", a senior officer at Northern Command said tonight.

Just imagine what help 5 C-17s could have been in this case - with their payload and cargo hold size capacity.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Aug 2010 09:30

the barak valley region and perhaps manipur/mizoram offer good terrain to have north korean "judgement day" style aircraft and missile shelters
carved below hills with adjoining runways. helps to spread the risk down from brahmaputra valley airbases. even missile TELARs could be sited in
such cave shelters close to adjoining highways and prepared launch sites, with the approach roads kept as inconspicious dirt tracks and hidden under forest canopy. tatra trucks have no issues with earthen or sandy roads.

a massive chinese conventional attack on brahmaputra valley should not crippled our ability to respond back in kind .

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 13 Aug 2010 10:22

IAF going in for massive upgrade of airfields, helipads

From new Sukhoi-30MKI bases at Chabua (Assam), Halwara (Punjab) and Jodhpur (Rajasthan) to one for Tejas fighters in Sulur (Tamil Nadu), IAF is going in for a massive upgrade of its airfield and helipad infrastructure across the country.

This will not only bolster operational logistics and flexibility on both the eastern and western fronts with China and Pakistan, apart from plugging existing gaps over central and peninsular India, but also make IAF airbases more accessible to civilian aircraft.

" Commercial negotiations with the Tata Power-led consortium for MAFI Phase-I, at a cost of around Rs 1,300 crore, is in the final stages now. Bhatinda airbase will be taken up as the pilot project,'' said a source.

Under Phase-II, remaining IAF, Army, Navy and Coast Guard airfields will be modernised. The upgrade includes resurfacing, expansion and lighting of runways for night operations as well as installation of new tactical navigational (TACAN), instrument landing (Cat-2 ILS), air traffic management and air-to-ground radio communication (RCAG) systems.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 14 Aug 2010 04:23

^^^ Related to the topic above

IAf to ‘populate airfields’ in S. India

The IAF — which has traditionally focused its aerial might to guard India’s western and eastern borders —— will now start focusing on increasing its operational presence in southern India to beef up security for the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and also to guard sea-lanes of maritime trade and communication in the Indian

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 15 Aug 2010 07:59

HAL Sitara Trainer To Miss IOC Deadline

The HAL HJT-36 Sitara intermediate jet trainer won't achieve initial operational clearance/capability (IOC) by the end of this year as planned.

A Report detailing fresh problems with the aircraft noticed during hot-weather trials held in Rajasthan in May this year, was received by the Air HQ on the morning of August 12.

The IAF plans to induct over 200 of the aircraft.