J & K news and discussion

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 16:14

^^ and of course Govt. job.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 13 Aug 2010 16:16

It is unlikely that we will ever see a stampede of sane people rushing into K valley even if article 370 is struck down. Only RoP followers may rush in & if that happens, the secessionism festering in that septic tank will only worsen. Hence, the right & only solution is a military one. Just shoot those stone throwing sub-humans the moment they appear on the streets & peace fill return faster than a paki can downhill ski. The only reason that the stone throwing continues is that the RoP sub-human in the k-valley knows very well the that INC is steeped in dhimmitude. Heck, in no other self-respecting democracy will such vandalism be tolerated. MMS & INC sekoolaar traitors can only think of harming Indian interests, so things will only keep getting worse unless a true nationalist govt. throws out the UPA traitors from N.Delhi.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 13 Aug 2010 16:20

All convicts serving jail terms for hardcore crimes should be released and given amnesty with the condition that they settle in the valley. They should be given guns to.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 13 Aug 2010 16:23

^^^
A good chunk of the convicts are RoP, arming them is the worst thing we can do.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 16:23

@willy and rocket launchers too.Amen

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 16:25

derkonig wrote:^^^
A good chunk of the convicts are RoP, arming them is the worst thing we can do.

How about settling ex armed forces personnel with free land, no work Govt jobs, and all sorts of arms.A generation down we will have max. no. of recruits from Kashmir in armed forces and be the sword arm of 'Bharath'.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 13 Aug 2010 16:45

derkonig wrote:^^^
A good chunk of the convicts are RoP, arming them is the worst thing we can do.

That was in a lighter vein. Settling ex-army men is a good idea. But would they be willing to risk their families. Risking their lives in service of their country is one thing but we cant ask them to risk the lives of their families. Give an option to the poor sections of our poorest states and give them hefty monetory incentives to migrate like a monthly allowance. That would make it worth it.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 16:47

^^^ along with training in arms and actual arms and under the guardianship of the army who will protect the borders for some time till things stabilize.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 13 Aug 2010 16:51

The problem is that all Indian govts whether the congress or the bjp lack the ba**s for hard decisions.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 16:52

^^^ Wait for uncle sun set. Don't be so despondent.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 17:12

Isunil I have already reported your post mentioning ***.Let's see what the mods decide.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 13 Aug 2010 17:36

Willy wrote:The problem is that all Indian govts whether the congress or the bjp lack the ba**s for hard decisions.

Not so, sekoolaar govts. (of which INC is the gold standard) lack ba**s, let the BJP get a majority of its own & see the difference. Remember NDA too had its share of seekoolaar parties like NC, LJP & even JDU.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 13 Aug 2010 18:00

lsunil wrote:It has it's pro's and con's but which one weighs more?

IMO Development of IOK is not going to change anything. The resentment has to do with something different. India cannot stop 100% of the attacks in kashmir which pakistan knows. Sooner or later the kashmiri people will say "what is the use by staying under indian security. They cannot arm twist the pakistani's. It is perpetual situation. At least we won't get attacked by the indians if we become part of pakistan".

IOK?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 13 Aug 2010 18:38

NYT put this on the front page of the print edition:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world ... shmir.html

Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir
...
...
For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces in Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by Pakistan, which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face a threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers, uncles and grandparents.

The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have led India to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not just because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they signal the failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris using just about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming force.
...
...

Indeed, there is a palpable sense of opportunities squandered. Despite the protests of recent years, the Kashmir Valley had in the past few years been enjoying a season of peace.

The insurgency of the 1990s has mostly dried up, and elections in 2008 drew the highest percentage of voters in a generation. High expectations met the new chief minister, Omar Abdullah, a scion of Kashmir’s leading political family, whose fresh face seemed well suited to bringing better government and prosperity to Kashmir.

But election promises, like repealing laws that largely shield security forces from scrutiny and demilitarizing the state, went unfulfilled. After two summers of protests on specific grievances, this summer’s unrest has taken on a new character, one more difficult to define and mollify.

That anger has led to a cycle of violence that the Indian government seems powerless to stop....

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 18:50

^^^ What to expect from the real master's of radical kashmiri's(unkil) as their sun is setting.More frustration.It really must be painful to radical kashmiri's, their master's and supporters playing taqqiya to see things slipping from their grip. Bliss to watch 60 yrs of their effort being washed down the drain.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 18:56

rkirankr wrote:^^^ What is this thing about ***? Does it mean Indian occupied Kashmir. There is no such thing there. That part is India and it is a region of India. IOK gives a meaning that India is a separate entity and has been the aggressor of an independent entity. Let us please not score self goals

You are assuming that a bhartiya wrote this post.Hence talks of self goals etc.Something tells me your assumption is wrong.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Aug 2010 19:07

I was talking to a KP (Kashmiri Pundit) friend. His thoughts are that

- KPs are deeply upset with the way they were treated (makeshift tents, little govt help etc) when they were kicked out of the valley
- But they accept it as any other Indian and moved on
- Now that they are part of mainstream India and associated opportunities, they do not feel like going back to valley, where economic opportunities are limited at best.

Is this the genreal opinion?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 19:11

RamaY wrote:I was talking to a KP (Kashmiri Pundit) friend. His thoughts are that

- KPs are deeply upset with the way they were treated (makeshift tents, little govt help etc) when they were kicked out of the valley
- But they accept it as any other Indian and moved on
- Now that they are part of mainstream India and associated opportunities, they do not feel like going back to valley, where economic opportunities are limited at best.

Is this the genreal opinion?

Yes but the ones I know got lot of reservations etc. from the govt and are making very good money they are the better off ones.For the poor KP's I have no Idea.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Aug 2010 20:03

One of the most truly perverted tales perpetuated by fascist Isalmists and Jihadis in "secular" mufti like Yasin Mallik & co; lapped up by the west, and internalized by WKK and RNI cowards in India is that the it was governer Jagmohan who was responsible for the exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits from the valley. This claim should make any objective observer of Kashmir, pro-India or not, sick to their stomach. Its like Nazis blaming Jews for the holocaust. Governer Jagmohan has it right; India's skewed sense of secularism is what is giving these valley Islamic fascists more and more ammunition to spite and insult India.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Aug 2010 20:10

^^ this particular one has showed up recently in the guardian's comments section from a couple of islamofascists hiding beneath an azadi guise

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 13 Aug 2010 20:28

Kashmiri Panditss do get some benefits in form of subisdised rations and reservations in govt jobs and colleges among some other goodies. This aid was/is essential for displaced KPs but there are many who misuse it. Most KP friends of mine don't care much about going back to Kashmir unless guaranteed proper security and permanent govt. jobs. They've made a life for themselves outside Kashmir and going back just for sentimental reasons is not a viable option for most of them.

Kashmiri Muslims as well as Indian govt know this. Just as govt tried taking one step in the right direction by allotting jobs to a few 100 KPs in Kashmir, KMs stalled this move by their "peaceful, non-violent protests"

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 20:37

self delete

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Aug 2010 20:42

so the kashimiri pandits are in the same boat as west punjab hindus and sikhs and east bengal hindus?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 20:47

self delete

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 13 Aug 2010 20:49

Manishw jee
Care to explain ?

Lalmohan jee,

In a general way, yes.
But many KPs of the older generation still nurture the hope of going back. Kashmir for all practical purposes is still Indian territory unlike Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 20:51

jamwal wrote:Manishw jee
Care to explain ?

What Sir?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 13 Aug 2010 21:02

Your statement regarding people of Jammu having 'both hands in ghee and shakkar'.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 21:06

self delete

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 13 Aug 2010 21:15

There is no way to explain this generalised statement either, with or without standard disclaimers .

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Aug 2010 21:24

Omar cancels unified command meet to protest civilian deaths in J-K

Chief Minister Omar Abdullah cancelled the unified command meeting to protest against the civilian deaths in the valley on Friday.

There have been at least a dozen clashes in Srinagar between the security forces and protesters today.

Shouting anti-government slogans, an irate mob of protestors burnt the effigy of Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh during the protest, thereby defying the curfew imposed by the administration.

At least two persons were killed and several others injured in firing by security forces in Jammu and Kashmir's Kupwara and Baramulla Districts on Friday.

Sixty-five-year-old Ali Mohammad, who was seriously injured in Pattan in Baramulla District this morning succumbed to his injuries at Srinagar's Soura Medical Institute.

"The victim had received a fire arm injury and succumbed to his wounds," said Deputy Medical Superintendent of Soura Medical Institute Riyaz Ahmad.ccording to sources, the forces opened fire early in the morning to disperse protesters at Tergham in Kupwara.

After the incident, tension has gripped the entire area.

Meanwhile, curfew has been imposed in the area to maintain law and order.

Paramilitary and police forces have been deployed in strength to thwart any protest marches planned for the day.

Meanwhile, Hurriyat Conference (M) Chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq delivered the Friday sermon, and reiterated that protests will end only after New Delhi accepts the Hurriyat's proposals, including the withdrawal of forces and the repeal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act.

This is the pits.

Here is a CM who virtually begs on all fours in Delhi crying for central forces since the JKP are only good at providing escort duties to the CRPF when riots happen. So, the GoI sends a few troops into the cauldron to assist the CM and what does he do: boycott the IA top brass saying they killed innocent civilians!!!

Talk about Delhi being made a c$#%^&@

farazh · Post by **farazh** » 13 Aug 2010 21:50

This is carrying on too long for comfort. We need a debate in Parliament regarding Art. 370 now. This sentiment of course has been reiterated here many times. One thing I feel: it would be best if the "demand" for such a debate were to come from within J&K (you know which parts of the state).

Just like KMs from the valley can shout that they are not Indians blah blah and should be given azadi and have kicked non-Muslims out, other people in the state should be allowed to say that they in fact feel very Indian and want their state to be a full and equal part of the country and want to be protected physically and they feel that removing this 370. privilige for KMs is the way to go.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Aug 2010 22:01

^^^ journalists are somehow always drawn into the KM arguement, perhaps its the srinagar factor... it must be easier for them to access other voices

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Aug 2010 22:11

Thus spake Kiyani & Paasha.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 13 Aug 2010 22:22

What or where is this 'IOK' that lsunil refers to?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Aug 2010 22:24

Finnacial help should be extended to all except KVSM . The generous amount of loans to be granted to buy almost all the real estate in valley by Jammuites, Ladakhi,Shias, Bakrawals, HIndus , Sikhs etc . The right kind of exertion to sell can be provided by local version of NSAs.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 22:24

CRamS wrote:Thus spake Kiyani & Paasha.

Quote
Moderate Hurriyat Conference headed by Mirwaiz Umer Farooq on Friday said normalcy will return to Kashmir only if the government withdraws troops, revokes "draconian" acts and releases all prisoners unconditionally.Unquote

Normalcy=azadi+Sharia>>Ghazwa-e-hind.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Aug 2010 22:26

While we on BR speculating the following will be dismissed as conspiracy buffs by one and all, neverthless, this on-going TSP sponsored/inspired tamash in the valley is no doubt a well-planned strategy to link Kashmir to the AfPak denounement. With NYT carrying it on its headlines and maligning India, is it only me, or there are others here also who feel that something is cooking, something has got to give. I don't think the stone-pelting will just die a natural death as it should. To me, this voice of Kiyani/Paasha through Umar fukroo suggests that surely something is at play.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 22:31

^^^

Combine all of the above with unkil's sunset, definitely something is cooking question is what? Where do we get Jhatka and are we up to it?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 13 Aug 2010 22:34

Gerard wrote:What or where is this '***' that lsunil refers to?

Third post on last page from here in this very thread Saar.

lsunil · Post by **lsunil** » 13 Aug 2010 22:52

Sachin wrote:IMHO, India Govt. also failed miserably to teach Kashmiris one simple lesson

The money will keep going in. It will not stop. Not until we have a plan wrt kashmir. As i understand it, GoI is not interested in removing article 370. It is not interested in a demography change. Nor will it disband the separatist leaders in the kashmir valley. The notion it seems to carry is that the valley-wallahs will get demotivated by the chaos in pakistan and get attracted towards india's economic growth. The earlier thing might be happening but the later thing isn't. Prosperity is not the primary concern when lives are at stake. They want normalcy which they thought india would deliver but it has still been elusive.

Sachin wrote:And what tomorrow if people in Orissa and Jharkhand say that any way Maoism is going to remain here, so let us now form another country?

Im not here to make nationalist remarks. Surely you cannot relate these two. The militants in kashmir kill civilians. The maoists do not. Or at least try their best not to. The people in kashmir fear for their lives. The tribals view the maoists as someone who will prevent the govt from taking their lands. Im not in a mood to talk about the basics when you put it like that.

Sachin wrote:Sir, if your idea is to disintegrate India please state it openly

Wars are not lost because of wrong decision but by remaining idle.

Manishw wrote:What is this thing about IOK? Does it mean Indian occupied Kashmir.

Calm down and loose that hostile attitude. The intention was to point out the region. IoKs and PoKs - an arbitrary argument done to death. A waste of time.