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lsunil wrote:
Calm down and loose that hostile attitude. The intention was to point out the region. ***s and PoKs - an arbitrary argument done to death. A waste of time.
Hostile attitude-personnel attack in my opinion but aokay been through much worse.
***=Insult to my country, sorry not aokay.Too much.
Don't give arguments insulting to one's intelligence.Where does arbitrary start and where it stops is a huge topic beyond the scope of present discussion.Anyhow who gave you the right to decide that?Point is you had ample time since you wrote that and others corrected you and the time I reported to correct yourself but you show your presence only now when the Mods come looking for you.Aren't you being too clever? and to add insult to injury you still persist.
Heard a Kashmiri M today saying that 9/11 pilots were actually Jews. Security people at airport were also Jews. It was all done by the Jews. All the media is after Islam to defame it.
Did not even bother to listen to the question, which was about 9-0 go-ahead vote for the Mosque near Ground Zero and it's positive effects on M world.
And the guy is no stone throwing kid, but an MBA BTW. Was disgusted at hearing this from someone that educated and forward. Don't know what to expect from his stone throwing brigade of cousins.
@Marten
It is not nonsensical. You need to accept the ground realities and stop deluding yourself.
From here
The Maoists are an insurgent organisation with a purely Indian and social class agenda.
[...]
The Maoists believe in targeted killing of civilians. Apart from the security forces, the Maoists kill only those civilians whom they look upon as class enemies such as landlords and forest contractors.
[...]
The Maoists pose a serious threat to India's internal security because they have considerable support from the rural poor in the tribal areas of Central India.
BTW, were off topic. I'll leave you internet warriors to have the last word.
Civilians are not getting targeted for the while. It would be a nightmare if that started happening. Which is why the govt doesn't do public about it's anti-maoist operations. But nobody crosses the threshold. The govt waits for the maoists to attack civilians. That'll give it reasons and justifications to use force.
And btw, in your book, "class enemies" do not qualify as citizens of India, is it?
Manishw wrote:What is this thing about ***? Does it mean Indian occupied Kashmir.
Calm down and loose that hostile attitude. The intention was to point out the region. ***s and PoKs - an arbitrary argument done to death. A waste of time.
where did I write this statement, care to show, one slimy act after another.You deliberately used my name and mixed it with someone else's quote to buttress your claim of 'hostile attitude.'
At least have the decency to own up.
lsunil wrote:
Im not here to make nationalist remarks. Surely you cannot relate these two. The militants in kashmir kill civilians. The maoists do not.
I completely understand, you are here to make moronic remarks. of course the maoists don't kill civilians, martians killed the passengers of the gyaneshwari express. you have absolutely zero idea who the naxals killed during their earlier 'revolutionary' period and who they kill now.
your ignorance and callousness to make a remark like this when maoists are indulging in rampant mass murder speaks volumes about your mentality.
@ fellow mods, I really don't see why we have to suffer this idiot. AFAIK BR can't donate grey matter which he so badly needs.
lsunil wrote:Civilians are not getting targeted for the while. It would be a nightmare if that started happening. Which is why the govt doesn't do public about it's anti-maoist operations. But nobody crosses the threshold. The govt waits for the maoists to attack civilians. That'll give it reasons and justifications to use force.
And btw, in your book, "class enemies" do not qualify as citizens of India, is it?
Citizens? Yes
Do you mean if they attack police it is ok? Hmm...so if enemy forces attack the IA it is ok. The rest of country need not support IA until they actually bomb 'civilians'. Then the country can mobilise. What a brilliant idea!!
Hope your goggles are only colorued ones - Pol Pot another Maoist - had all with glasses terminated since it was obvious they needed those for reading, and hence were elite. Wonder what plans the current ones have???
lsunil wrote:Calm down and loose that hostile attitude. The intention was to point out the region. IoKs and PoKs - an arbitrary argument done to death. A waste of time.
The forum is not a place to spew anti-India propaganda.
User banned for registering with free email in violation of forum rules
There are plenty of Paki or "South Asia" forums where you will find some resonance. Don't waste your time over here.
This place is for honest objective analysis; granted 400% pro-India onlee. But any objective analysis of the ground situation in the valley that does not take into account the Islamic fascism that previals there, and instead only maligns India through its heavy use of force in dealing with those traitors, is one-sided propaganda. Its out duty here to point out this fundamental truth, and it is because of Isalmic irredentist attiutde that we see the viscous cycle of violence never ending in the valley.
I always wondered why scrapping Article 370 would be such a big deal? If we consider Kashmir an "integral" part of India then what is the need for such special consideration?
A consistent influx of Hindu, Sikh and Christian population into Kashmir seems to be the only permanent solution to this problem and I am sure Shiv Sena would be happy to provide some volunteers to initiate that task.
The children, as young as 5, are being trained to be terrorists. They have bid 'good-bye' to their parents and have told them that if they die, they should not be wept for but 'marriage songs' must be sung. They are being brainwashed of the 72 + 28. From here, it will be one short leap to being a suicide bomber. Very revealing article. Also has the picture of India's own wannabe-Qari Hussain Mehsud, aka Ustad-e-Fidayeen of TTP.
I always wondered why scrapping Article 370 would be such a big deal? If we consider Kashmir an "integral" part of India then what is the need for such special consideration?
A consistent influx of Hindu, Sikh and Christian population into Kashmir seems to be the only permanent solution to this problem and I am sure Shiv Sena would be happy to provide some volunteers to initiate that task.
Dude some years back when the Shiv Sena was making a lot of noise and taking to the streets a former mumbai comissioner called some of their leaders to his office and asked them to do something constructive. The Shiv Sainiks said they would give their lives for their motherland.The comissioner suggested that they joined the army . An they was more rethoric from the shiv sainiks about how they would give their blood for the motherland. So the comissioner called up the army and set up a recruitment cap in the following days. Not a single Shiv Sainik turned up
So expecting them to provide some volunters .......
BRFites should keep in mind that protests like these are dime a dozen in India, there are at least one protest a day somewhere in India where a protestor gets injured in police action. if the govt and media starts treating it at par with rest of India and not as if it is something special, it would die down in a few weeks.
a couple of days back 2 people died in police firing in rural bengal after a protest against a road accident turned violent. where is the CCS meeting and day long media coverage on that ?
I have been a long time follower of this forum now. I do have a couple of questions regarding Kashmir that will help me.
1. The India Govt. knew since 1947 that Kashmir could be instigated for secession. So why did the any of the Neta's plan to take preventive steps until the full fledged insurgency in 1989 ? It is because of yesterday's inaction / action that we suffer today. What are we doing today so that the future would be much better in Kashmir?
2. Why has the art.370 been allowed to exist for more than 6 decades ? My understanding was that every state suffered its share for partition one way or other. It can be argued that 370 was used to appease then but why are we still not willing to touch it ?
3.The army and the security have really done a great job of preventing infiltration, but what is the govt. doing to prevent radicalization of sections of the Kashmir valley? The radicalization in my view is still keeping the secession movement alive since it transcends all other parameters due to the relevance of religion.
4. Why is our govt. not providing proper riot gear to security personnel of a troubled state? Grown security officials without proper gear being pelted at the hands of hundreds of children is very hurting.
I do have some answers but I think inputs from more knowledgable folks would help us all to understand and view the
Kashmir is a huge strategic piece of land capable of providing water to most of India if the need so arises especially with the Chinese tinkering with the Brahmaputra.Whatever opinions we might have on Indian elites including Politicos. I am sure of one thing, they are not retards.Nobody and I mean nobody can take it by force or the elites hand over such a precious item to enemical interests.I find very little talk on BRF on this aspect. The elephant is slow but beware IMHO the time for it to snort and trample is coming near as unkil's sun sets.Whatever Hoo-Ha we see is just frustration of 60 years work of radicals and their master's being poured down the drain's. Expect it to rise.
This thing has really depressed me. KMs have convinced themselves that they are being oppressed! No one seems to be countering the propaganda emanating from the valley (eg. greaterkashmir).
Since June 11, Kashmir has been in a state of turmoil but Delhi has sat on its haunches, silently observing, as if Srinagar was another country.
If the Omar Abdullah government cannot fathom what to say or do, why did the prime minister wait till Tuesday to step into the breach? Whilst you and I fear the Valley might be slipping away the government seems not to share that concern.
I've not read any article other than this one by Karan Thapar showing as much concern as is required here IMHO.
Much of what has been mentioned in the article are actually facts, but the media outlet cannot state it as such - hence, there's a whole shroud of weasel words introduced using the word "alleges"
"The Islamisation of Kashmir is a dangerous game. This was on for the last two decades. First they started changing the names of places and signboards.... They they imposed a ban on cinema halls, beauty parlours, restaurants and fashion shops. They asked their women to wear veil even in schools and offices," RSS mouthpiece Organiser states in its latest issue.
The editorial of August 15 issue of the mouthpiece goes on to claim that women have been prevented from wearing jeans, fashionable outfits and make-up in the border state.
"Some Mullahs also suggested that girls should not go to schools. Madrasa education was promoted in a big way. They adopted Arabic script for Kashmir and encouraged promotion of Arabic language," the article states.
The editorial alleges that even the administration in the state has become "Islamic".
"The terrorists also want Friday declared a weekly holiday instead of Sunday. Non-Kashmiris cannot buy property, participate in politics or vote in the election and all rights of a citizen are denied under the law," the editorial says.
It further alleges that Hindu migrants who came from across the border at the time of partition have still not been given citizens' rights in Kashmir.
"The Kashmiri Islamists continued to implement their agenda unchallenged by demolishing hundreds of Hindu temples all over the valley, selectively killing Hindus and finally forcing them to migrate, leaving their jobs, property and everything," the editorial says.
It suggests that all such elements should be asked to "get out of India" and go to Pakistan or to Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir where they can "enjoy all the freedom under Islamic rule".
Organiser has also alleged that development funds for the state of Jammu and Kashmir is being "siphoned off by politicians and part fund the insurgency of the Islamists".
The editorial also criticises the continuance of Article 370 which grants special status to Kashmir.
"Under this article a Kashmiri cannot marry a non-Kashmiri and if such a marriage happens the Kashmiri will lose his right on property, voting, etc," it states.
The article accuses the separatists of "systematically" targeting Hindus in schools, offices and public places.
"Hindu, Sikh and Christian shops were attacked and looted. Migrant labourers were targeted. Public sector company establishments where non-Kashmiris worked were forced to leave the valley," the article states.
I am in a conciliatory mood this independence day. As much as I have been castigating the stone-pelters for their intragince and playing pawn to TSP's diabolical machinations, I also understand that at the end of the day, what is needed is reconcillation between Kashmiri Muslims and the rest of India. So on this independence day, I call upon my Kashmiri Muslim brothers & sisters to transcend the past and look to the future as this truly magnificent Mohamed Rafi song signifies: Chhodo Kal Ki Baatein Kal Ki Baat Purani ....
CRamS wrote:..... So on this independence day, I call upon my Kashmiri Muslim brothers & sisters to transcend the past and look to the future as this truly magnificent Mohamed Rafi song signifies: Chhodo Kal Ki Baatein Kal Ki Baat Purani ....
Yes, To some extent it is. Internal vigilance must be lacking.
One needs to keep watch on the watchers and the watchers and the watchers......and so on.
For the impressionable agitators living in emotional ghettos, the PM's elegy, last week's solidarity dharnas in New Delhi and supportive noises by Indian intellectuals have prompted one inescapable conclusion: India's resolve to keep Kashmir a part of the Union is fast waning.
I apologize for constantly posting articles by people taking a depressing view of the situation. But I feel GoI's inaction this time will cost us dear. I'm just hoping this is just a passing phase and once it subsides, there will be stern action with more clarity about what's to be done.
The poor turds picked the wrong target to shoot at. As Rohitvats had speculaed when the news of the convoy attack first came, the pigs were ruthlessly hunted down and shown the 72.
Also, been a while since news of OWG etc being busted by IA come out. Is the IA getting back into full scale CI ( it seemed to handed it over to the CRPF and JKP)...
Quote:
For the impressionable agitators living in emotional ghettos, the PM's elegy, last week's solidarity dharnas in New Delhi and supportive noises by Indian intellectuals have prompted one inescapable conclusion: India's resolve to keep Kashmir a part of the Union is fast waning.
I apologize for constantly posting articles by people taking a depressing view of the situation. But I feel GoI's inaction this time will cost us dear. I'm just hoping this is just a passing phase and once it subsides, there will be stern action with more clarity about what's to be done.
Pretty depressing to read the comments too, esp the KM( or IM??) sounding ones..
Could some kind soul who went through the entire article please summarize what the point of the article is and what is the author trying to convey?
It was a history lesson for me. Probably nothing new for most gurus here.
Saw the words "Hindu communal putsch" 4-5 times at the start of the article and gave up reading it..
I know, but he also says:
... it remains a fact that at the time of the exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in 1990, a campaign was in evidence as loud-speakers from mosques blared how the “Nizam-e-Mustafa” (Islamic Statehood) was at hand, how the Pandits must hasten their exodus, taking care to leave their women behind, though. You will also hear the speculation that one reason why elements within the valley do not, at bottom, wish the Pandits to return home en mass is that they do not wish an Indian “fifth column” to be reinstated therein, since with them gone, the desire for an Islamic State acquires greater facilitation
Our decision makers need to be clear on a few things -
- if you see the totality of the data, this is a religious uprising, where most of the leaders have been very clear on what they want to set up. In fact, Geelani is to an extent far more liberal, than Andrabi or Masarrat Alam.
- the setting up of a Islamic theocratic semi-independent area begins to smell like SWAT - something that we cannot allow
So, we have to reach the conclusion that the Kashmir problem does not have to be solved any time soon. In fact, it should NOT be solved now. If we put on our strategic interests hat - we are perfectly capable of losing a few billion dollars every year and some stone throwers every now and then to prevent a SWAT within our borders. Cynically speaking, we lose 300 people on our roads every day and have done nothing. We lost 170 people in one incident in 2008 - yet we have really not pushed our government to do anything - so, why now?
The message has to be - let the protests carry on. International interference can be managed.
