Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 2010

[A_Gupta]

Edhi:

He said that he was not a politician and whenever he asked for help he got positive response and collected millions of rupees. Because of spiralling prices and political crisis people did not come forward for donations the way they did after 2005 earthquake, he said.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ission-080

[anupmisra]

Ms. panistan

Fury has erupted over the decision to hold a beauty contest featuring scantily clad Pakistani women draped in the national flag, as Pakistan struggles with its worst ever humanitarian disaster.

The pageant comes three weeks after the start of Pakistan’s floods crisis, which has affected around 20 million people, inundated about a fifth of the country and killed more than 2,000.

The organisers’ actions are so far from reality that it shows they have no connection to Pakistani life

D'uh! Of course they don't. They live in Canada and other western nations. Another gem:

Empowerment of women does not come by parading yourself naked in front of people

But the president of the pageant, Sonia Ahmed, said that the catastrophe gave more reason for the contest to go ahead. “I feel very sad about the disaster but, as a Pakistani, it’s my right and responsibility to bring my country out in this world in a lighter image,” she said. “If there are people who think it’s inappropriate to hold it in a disaster, then that’s their thinking. But my duty as a Pakistani is to show the world that Pakistanis are not terrorists, honour killers or fundamentalists.”

How about "Hungry, homeless and two-faced"?

[anupmisra]

Blame others
Hey! Pay up.

The countrywide floods have caused unprecedented death, devastation and destruction. Pakistan never faced any natural calamity of this scale in its history of 63 years. The aftermath of this flood will bring even more destruction. The federal and provincial governments and major humanitarian agencies are involved in coping with rescue, evacuation and relief challenges. According to rough estimates, it may require Rs350 billion to rebuild and rehabilitate the affected areas and people. The international community, particularly the developed and industrialised countries, has a moral and legal obligation to help Pakistan. Countries like Canada, the US, Russia, China, India, Kuwait, Japan and members of the European Union are major contributors towards greenhouse gases emissions due to which climatologically changes take place causing unprecedented heavy rains. Therefore, they must contribute towards the repair and reconstruction efforts through financial assistance on an ongoing basis.

S. M. Junaid
Islamabad

[Anujan]

i am increasingly of the opinion that the floods have been seized upon as another opportunity to fleece the rest of the world of free cash. the genuine sufferers will continue to suffer (as always)

i doubt that the damage (to the core parts of the state machinery) are all that extensive - hence the relative calm of the RAPE

the SDRE peasants were always expendable anyway (by RAPE logic)

Grain stock and livestock have been flushed down the Pakistan. Forget SOF from Saudis, Pakis would need SFF (Special Food Facility) 4-6 months down the line -- especially if Russian Wheat harvests fail and they jack up the international prices of wheat.

[Mahendra]

i am increasingly of the opinion that the floods have been seized upon as another opportunity to fleece the rest of the world of free cash. the genuine sufferers will continue to suffer (as always)

i doubt that the damage (to the core parts of the state machinery) are all that extensive - hence the relative calm of the RAPE

the SDRE peasants were always expendable anyway (by RAPE logic)

Grain stock and livestock have been flushed down the Pakistan. Forget SOF from Saudis, Pakis would need SFF (Special Food Facility) 4-6 months down the line -- especially if Russian Wheat harvests fail and they jack up the international prices of wheat.

Fikar not my friend. Studies have indicated that in the post flood period due to widespread seed dissemination by the flood waters there will be bumper harvest of grass for at least 2 kharif and 3 rabi seasons. What is even better is that there will be no livestock competing with Pakbarians for that grass.

[Prem]

I heard Paul the Octopus has new job, Cant Poakroach approach this superior life form and ask about the floody future fudduland founded with Firangi seeds.

[Mahendra]

Blame others
Hey! Pay up.

The countrywide floods have caused unprecedented death, devastation and destruction. Pakistan never faced any natural calamity of this scale in its history of 63 years. The aftermath of this flood will bring even more destruction. The federal and provincial governments and major humanitarian agencies are involved in coping with rescue, evacuation and relief challenges. According to rough estimates, it may require Rs350 billion to rebuild and rehabilitate the affected areas and people. The international community, particularly the developed and industrialised countries, has a moral and legal obligation to help Pakistan. Countries like Canada, the US, Russia, China, India, Kuwait, Japan and members of the European Union are major contributors towards greenhouse gases emissions due to which climatologically changes take place causing unprecedented heavy rains. Therefore, they must contribute towards the repair and reconstruction efforts through financial assistance on an ongoing basis.

S. M. Junaid
Islamabad

Going by the logic of Senile Mentally-Retarded Junaid how bout Pakbaristan bearing moral and legal responsibility for all the terrorist attacks in the world and paying compensation for them. Pakbaristan would go bankrupt 786 times over and will still not be able to make up for its sins.
BTW Pakbarian lurks, now that you have begged and we have thrown a few coins your way, how bout a saluting the yindoos? Ok! cool.. relax, don't go home and beat up your women in frustration.
Perhaps your Pakbarians are missing a point here, perhaps Allah was sending a message when he sent 40% of your moth eaten( twice over) country under water,perhaps he was trying to tell you via the green house gases and flood waters that Terrorism in not halal and terrorism is not what he preaches, hain?

[A_Gupta]

Pakistan or no Pakistan, there will be 170+ million souls to India's west. If the goal is to gain mindshare among them, now is the time.

[Raja Bose]

^^^Shall we send them mangoes?

[A_Gupta]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =129328497

Listen after 7 PM US EST today when it will be available; some of the tones of voices are worth listening to - otherwise just read the story.

e.g., the written story says

The provincial government insists it has deployed over 800 mobile medical units. But they have not been in evidence this week.

the spoken word sounds harsher - the reporter has come across only one.

[munna]

Pakistan or no Pakistan, there will be 170+ million souls to India's west. If the goal is to gain mindshare among them, now is the time.

How about gaining the mindshare of 1 billion+ souls within? The arguments of under development and poverty that prevent us from being overtly jingo are equally applicable to WKK-esque Baki rescue schemes of GOI.

[A_Gupta]

Raja Bose - I don't know - the npr story above

But that hasn't stopped deep-seated resentment against Pakistan's wealthy and powerful from surfacing among the masses of poor, displaced people. "The cities have been spared while rural villages are drowning!" a crowd gathered in Shehr Sultan shouts.

Eighteen-year-old Mohammad Imran, an electrician, says if the government did show up in the village there could be trouble. "If we are suffering, we will not sit quiet," he says.

Maybe the mandarins in India know something that they can do that will reach these people. Somehow get Indian helicopters giving them supplies. Or unilaterally open some trade concession for a year. I don't know - there are, I hope, people whose career is to think about this kind of stuff.

In any case, if you look at the pictures, they are all SDREs. Or read Cyril Almeida's article in the Dawn, referenced above. Keep SDRE solidarity, if nothing else.

[Mahendra]

Sorry but I don't buy the mindshare logic.

We must seal the border and close our eyes, let the Pakbarians tear each other apart.

Parle G and Amluya diplomacy will not gain mindshare.
To imagine that Parle G and Amulya will diminish the hatred the Pakbarians have for us when they deny aid to their own countrymen for being Ahmediya is a bit strange. A society based on loot, rape and pillage and taqqiya cannot become friendly overnight

[A_Gupta]

Pakistan or no Pakistan, there will be 170+ million souls to India's west. If the goal is to gain mindshare among them, now is the time.

How about gaining the mindshare of 1 billion+ souls within? The arguments of under development and poverty that prevent us from being overtly jingo are equally applicable to WKK-esque Baki rescue schemes of GOI.

Obviously there has to be a balancing of objectives. GOI should set a budget, say $25 million, and see how best to use it to gain mindshare in Pakistan - not among the RAPE, or the middle class, but among the majority, the poor.

The whole premise of "managing Pakistan's failure" thread is that it is appropriate for India to do such things; that at some point India will have to do such things. Well, opportunity knocks.

[Prasad]

When half their country is drowning and they demand that others pay up, how can others think of giving them something and gain solidarity? This attitude is so ingrained that there is no other option but to stand fast and use the good money for your own benefit. Especially when we need it for our own citizens far more than to give it to them. Just compare the amounts given to pakistan and Leh. Is there any comparison between the pakistan and Leh?

[Amber G.]

"There is a possibility that some negative forces would exploit this situation"


Above are actual quotes uttered by Hillal-e-Pakistan and 10% - Negative forces Indeed!

The photograph says it all ... and what an apt title for the link:
मक्खीमार Militants to exploit Pakistan crisis?

[Mahendra]

JuD goes online to woo friends

Pakbarians share so much of their mindspace with charity orgs like JuD that the well meaning SDRE baniya in a Helicopter dropping off Parle G stands no chance. Now it looks like even cyber space can't be shared with the Pakbarians

[Raja Bose]

In any case, if you look at the pictures, they are all SDREs. Or read Cyril Almeida's article in the Dawn, referenced above. Keep SDRE solidarity, if nothing else.

You think they are SDREs. Those fellas don't think they are SDREs - They think they are better than you, descended from conquerors who ruled you! And they have no reticence in taking your money and bombing you with it. I think we should stop having delusions of trying to "win Paki mindshare" or "reform relations". One doesn't try to reform wild rabid dogs. If massa with its donations of billions of its own impoverished tax payers' money cannot win any Paki mind share (heck not even a commitment for the job being paid for) what makes you think India will do any better. Our policy should be one of self-preservation and self-interest, just like any other self-respecting nation in this world (including massa). Right from the days of Nehru till now we have always put the interests of others before the interests of our own people just to get the empty kudos and the "moral high ground" - not the behavior of a wannabe souper-power.

[Prem]

In any case, if you look at the pictures, they are all SDREs. Or read Cyril Almeida's article in the Dawn, referenced above. Keep SDRE solidarity, if nothing else.

You think they are SDREs. Those fellas don't think they are SDREs - They think they are better than you, descended from conquerors who ruled you! And they have no reticence in taking your money and bombing you with it. I think we should stop having delusions of trying to "win Paki mindshare" or "reform relations". One doesn't try to reform wild rabid dogs.

Misplaced sense of compassion is no no in Kalyug. Chicago rule rules the root. We know the story of well meaning SDRE who gave water , food and rest to butcher and earned the sin of Gau Hatya as facilitator of said butchering. Poaks have no rational side and till they evolve there cant be any solution ,gesture good enough to treat then normal . Why cant they wait till Kashmir issue is settled?

[g.sarkar]

MMS gets $5 Million worth mangoes

There is a saying " Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". This applies to Pukes as well.
Gautam

[g.sarkar]

Maybe the mandarins in India know something that they can do that will reach these people. Somehow get Indian helicopters giving them supplies.

Been there done that. This Kaffir remembers clearly last time India wanted to help with helikapters, the jernails and the kernails of Pukjab said helikapters welcomeji, but without Indian Pilots!
Gautam

[saip]

What is with that cap ten% wearing? Is it something to do with Ramadan?

[anandsgh]

^^^
This is a typical sindhi skull cap.

BTW... this talibani incident that happened in Sialkot city.. allegedly started with some cricket match related misunderstanding...

http://pkaffairs.com/Play_Show_Views_On ... 2010_10242

I don't know if this has been posted earlier!!

[Hari Seldon]

^^^ I find myself agreeing with sri A_gupta on this one.

Now is the time to win mind-share and all that. BUt giving blankets and biryani packets is a one-time thing that will have very fleeting impact only as pakistaniyat will resurface the moment flood waters recede.

I think GOI should go well beyond fleeting temporary help. Like a wise buzurg once said:

Give a man a fish - you've helped him for a day. Teach him how to fish - you've helped him for a lifetime.

So it muct be with us too. Its time to teach the aam paki abduls how to fish in troubled waters. Like that young man says in that article:

Eighteen-year-old Mohammad Imran, an electrician, says if the government did show up in the village there could be trouble. "If we are suffering, we will not sit quiet," he says.

Well, well, how about bharat sarkar give the abduls arms instead of alms? How about GOI empower these abduls to stand upto feudal, mullah and tspa tyranny? How about goi give these poor souls arms, organization, management, intelligence to take on their oppressors?

//Yeah, yeah, I know. But a guy can dream, can't he, eh?

[Brad Goodman]

Pakistan or no Pakistan, there will be 170+ million souls to India's west. If the goal is to gain mindshare among them, now is the time.

Are you sure about this?I feel its like playing with fire. What is the gurranty that once these abduls are well fed and well cared will not ask for shariah laws for kafirs. What will stop them from asking islamic studies to be included in mainstream schooling system? We have a bigger responsiblity towards Hindus Parsi & Sikh communities of this planet all others can knock somewhere else.

[Airavat]

Khyber-Pukhtunkhwa province seeks direct aid, bypassing Islamabad

This is the first time in the history of the country that a provincial government approached the multilateral donors directly with a request for financial aid. As many as 26 representatives of various multilateral donor agencies and ambassadors of various countries stationed in Islamabad participated in the conference that was held at the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa House, the camp office of the provincial government in Islambad.

Chief Minister Amir Haider Khan Hoti chaired the conference and told donors the province will be in need of close to $3 billion for reconstruction and rehabilitation endeavours. The ANP leader said the idea behind holding the conference at this stage was that governments in the US and most European countries would be initiating their annual budget making process in a couple of month.

“We want our assistance to be part of their budgets. Had we waited for the federal government to complete its assessment, it would have been too late,” the official said.

[A_Gupta]

Hari Seldon has a dream

Don't spend the budget for mindshare if a way isn't available. But I won't rule out the possibility of a viable idea. Relief operations are large and complex things, there may be a way.

[shiv]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =129328497

Wasim Hassan Langrial, a doctor and farmer, has lost 500 acres of crops, mostly cotton, sugar cane and rice. He estimates that it will take eight to 10 years for Pakistani farmers to recover.

hmmm..

I always thought, either you can be a doctor or a farmer. Anything more than an acre requires enough attention for you to be busy with farming unless you have lots of labourers on your land. If this doc "lost" 500 acres of crops what did those labourers lose?

500 acres is a plot of land that is 4500 feet by 4500 feet. In an Indian city it would have about 6000 houses with roads and other amentities.

[A_Gupta]

shiv, if you're on, what do you make of this?
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/fiveru ... -the-state

Discusses a lynching in Sialkot, and comes to this:

No, we have to look at the confidence, or lack thereof, our population has in the state. Those that can afford it have divorced themselves from the state to the extent possible. KESC doesn't work? Okay, get a generator. The police is corrupt? Okay, hire private security guards. And as this episode shows, these notions are not socially and geographically circumscribed to elite areas of the country. Frankly, the state has earned this lack of trust. Simply put, it has not been there for the vast majority of Pakistanis throughout our history, as this quite brilliant column from Cyril Almeida attests.

What's interesting to me about this is that it doesn't just reflect a lack of trust and subservience to the state, but any authority -- be it a tribal leader, pir, imam, the Taliban, zamindar, whatever. Remember, there's nothing "special" about the state -- many different, overlapping modes of organization can do the same things states do, though at smaller scales. But even those highly localized institutions -- which can be extremely useful in containing neighborhood- and local-level conflict, as that much-cited 1996 APSR piece by Fearon and Laitin demonstrated -- have continually let down the "average" Pakistani.

When government doesn't work, people make their own personal governments. 180 million mini-governments is a recipe for disaster; it is a return to the state of nature. And as I've talked about at length elsewhere, the media and technological revolutions in this country have meant that people are increasingly aware that government doesn't work. In my mind, this issue -- of how to get the state to do the simple things right -- will be the public policy issue that serious analysts and activists must grapple with for the next ten or fifteeen years. The very deep and structural changes Pakistan is going through demand nothing less.

A bit of exaggeration?

[Prem]

A second wave of floods
The pictures arr proof enough of Poak's being AOA= Aulad of Arabs and Australians. Why do they look so malnourished BOB= Bunch of Bones.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... -sindh.htm

[Prem]

Rush of Floodwaters (700,000 cubic feet per second) Threatens Southern Pakistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x4512102

MULLATOWN, Pakistan — Surging waters are shifting flood damage southward in Pakistan, as the water level rises at one of the main flood barriers north of the city of Hyderabad, officials said Friday.The next 2 days will be critical for the city’s 1.5 million people, but embankments strengthened over the last 10 days offer some protection, said an officer at the flood control room there, who gave his name as Major Ehsan. “We have done a lot of work, making sandbags and stone pitches to build up the embankments,” he said.The Indus River, which has flooded five to seven miles beyond its banks, is flowing at a rate of over 700,000 cubic feet per second, he said, and is expected to rise to 800,000 cubic feet per second in the next 24 hours at the flood barrier, called the Kotri barrage, he said. “If the water coming does not exceed that, we will be able to pass through this,” he said.Villages upriver are still being inundated, and although most of the population has been evacuated from low-lying areas, the military was still getting phone calls from people stranded in their homes, and was sending out rescue boats, he said.

Its time BRF has its own charity wing to help Poak to earn the permanent peace.

[Theo_Fidel]

Pakistan or no Pakistan, there will be 170+ million souls to India's west. If the goal is to gain mindshare among them, now is the time.

I doubt the Abdul's care where they get their next meal from.
They will put it all down to Allah provides.

This is anecdotal but did anyone see the number Koran's being saved. Seems like every relief camp picture shows a number of them.

There was one picture of a TFTA Mard lamenting about losing cattle, farms and family members
and in front of him was a honking huge 100 pound monster Koran he managed to save.

Don't fool your self on how harmless be these Abduls. They'd slit your throat, even now, if
they thought that there was koran, H&D, etc insulting involved.

[A_Gupta]

Walter B Milam in the Friday Times:

Pakistanis are among the most resilient of peoples, and even this horrible natural disaster is unlikely to cause the collapse of the state or fragmentation of the society in the near-term. But it is the not-so-near-term that should worry us. It is the medium term when concerted effort by the civilian government and the army, along with plenty of well-targeted assistance from the western nations, especially the US, that is required to avoid that accelerated and inevitable slide.

It is not clear how this disaster will change the mindset of the military and the civilian government and bring them to a clearer understanding of how seriously vulnerable Pakistan is to such black swan events. Nor is it clear that even if there were a change in mindset and determination of the leadership to effect real change, the state and army would be able to move on needed reforms in the aftermath of the crisis, when whatever shreds of confidence and credibility that they now possess have vanished. For Pakistani leadership and Pakistan’s friends, the task begins with a superhuman effort to get relief and succor to those millions victimised by Mother Nature. But soon, and very soon indeed, Pakistan’s leaders must show that they care about the vast bulk of the population that is suffering, whether affected by the floods or not, and intend – really intend – to do something about it. And Pakistan’s friends (especially the US) must get rolling on the much heralded but little seen massive economic and social assistance programmes they have talked so much about.

[abhishek_sharma]

From the banks of Pakistan's swollen rivers

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... len_rivers

One comment:

Help Pakistanis NOT PAKISTAN
Only a trickle of what you send will reach the end user.

If you're ok donating $20 and finding that $12 went to the Swiss bank account of a politician, $7 went to buy F16s, the clandestine nuke program and support of Taliban and militants in India and less than $1 went to the end user, go ahead...

[shiv]

http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/fiveru ... -the-state

Discusses a lynching in Sialkot, and comes to this:

When government doesn't work, people make their own personal governments. 180 million mini-governments is a recipe for disaster; it is a return to the state of nature.

A bit of exaggeration?

Well I don't know. 180 million may be an exaggeration as a number but what he is talking about as "state of nature" is basically anarchy.

I like the word "anarchy". the "an-" of course is a sanskritic prefix meaning "not" and "-archy" is derived from a word that means something over or above (such as a arch). You have no organizing or controlling force above you and you have anarchy.

I think it was Jared Diamond (among others) who wrote about how social contracts might have arisen historically. Initially cave man 1 met cave man 2 and 1 clubbed 2 and took his wife/food

Later cavemen 1, 2 and 3 found it better to cooperate to hunt and to fend off cavemen 4 and 5

Ultimately, with agriculture and settlements a system of oligarchy/monarchy (that "arch" word again) developed where a single individual or group would look after security and punish offenders in the group in exchange for tax being paid by the group. This is the basis of all government.

The interesting thing about the Sialkot brutality is that this particular action is akin to caveman 1,2 and 3 cooperating against 4 and 5. It indicates complete failure of government in that geographical area. But such complete failure rarely lasts for long. Someone or the other will fill the void. Religions (such as Islam and Christianity" were designed from ground up to fill this void. If the police or army of Pakistan - left over by the British - have abrogated their social responsibility, it is most likely to be filled by a mullah-goon.

Again, what makes the "state" (police/army) more powerful than the mullah-goon? It is arms and armed men - i.e. coercive power. if the coercive power of the state is lower, the mullah-goon will win. In Pakistan there may be a 3 way pull. The "police" represent the civilian administration and are the weakest. The army and mullah-goon show cooperation at one level, but as long as the mullah goon does not tread on army toes, the army has not generally bothered about what the mullah-goon does in Pakistan.

The Sialkot incident seems to indicate lack of all 3 - police, army and mullah goon. In Pakistan they have all neutralised each other and made each other ineffective.

[abhishek_sharma]

AfPak Behind the Lines: Pakistan's army

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... stans_army

[Muppalla]

A second wave of floods
The pictures arr proof enough of Poak's being AOA= Aulad of Arabs and Australians. Why do they look so malnourished BOB= Bunch of Bones.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... -sindh.htm

Qayamat se Qayamat tak.

[A_Gupta]

shiv, the idea that the people recognize no authority, not government, and not "tribal leader, pir, imam, the Taliban, zamindar, whatever" is what seems to be an exaggeration.

[shiv]

AfPak Behind the Lines: Pakistan's army

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... stans_army

Reading this along with a recent post on PakTeaHouse has given me new insight on PakPiskology.

It appears to me that Pakis see 1998 as a landmark year because they feel that the 'India threat" was removed when Pakis became overtly nuclear.

But what Pakis do not see or talk about are two things:
1) The Paki nuclear threat was present even before 1998 - it only became overt after that
2) After 1998 Pakis became more brazen and for a decade we saw some of the worst attacks in India since 1971.

So the Inid threat has actually increased because Indians in general are pretty angry with Pakistan.

[Dipanker]

shiv, the idea that the people recognize no authority, not government, and not "tribal leader, pir, imam, the Taliban, zamindar, whatever" is what seems to be an exaggeration.

Then how do you explain the brutal lynching? Or is it just the case of Paki displaying their inner Pakistaniat?