J & K news and discussion

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Aug 2010 20:48

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Well, while I firmly hope n pray sri munna knows what he is talking about, I fear that what I read about this GOI's past record is not inspiring (in fact its decidedly expiring only).

I expect gubmint's WKKism to shine through loud and clear only.
I hope it doesn't.
Nothing to do but to wait n see who wins this round of hope vs experience.

Well Hari the WKK-ism and tension diffusion system of GOI has already come into play. The separatists have back tracked and no one is owning up to the letter. This issue will die down as the political fallouts are just too large to contain for separatists and at the same time any untoward incident will snuff out all hopes of the peace-wkk lobby in Dilli.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Aug 2010 20:59

CRamS wrote:
SwamyG wrote: I am reading the book these days, and was curious why think it is a silly book.
I must admit, I have only read excerpts of the book, but isn't it more the economy at all costs, and nothing about India's security environment? He must be told that if TSPA/ISI dispatches 2 dozen LET cadres into his Infosys campus Mumbai style, as Mazari and even TSP ambassador to US, Hussein Haqqani once threatned; there will be nothing left to imagine anymore.

That is why they were among the very first to ask for and get CRPF cover to guard their campuses.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 21 Aug 2010 21:28

Why Kashmir is Burning Again - TIME

Their cause is not independence or union with Pakistan, but the ouster of India's military from their homeland

--

Uhh, Indian Army showed up after the violence started. Why is TIME / Jyoti Thottam lying by claiming that Indian Army's presence is the cause?

I think it's time for Indian Army to heavily deploy along the LoC again, and to recommence shelling.

Let's see if Pak can keep grabbing aid from US while resisting US pressure to maintain forces in NWFP, while also pursuing its terrorism policy against India.

India has to put pressure on the US by redeploying troops to the Pak border. That will force the US to put pressure on Pak.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2010 19:19

Sanjay M wrote:Why Kashmir is Burning Again - TIME

Their cause is not independence or union with Pakistan, but the ouster of India's military from their homeland

--

Uhh, Indian Army showed up after the violence started. Why is TIME / Jyoti Thottam lying by claiming that Indian Army's presence is the cause?

Aeons ago, I have met this pipsqueak south asian journalist pervert Jyoti Thottam. Typical what I would call India-looking chics (ditto her other sisters like Somini Sengupta of NYT) trying to be part of mainstream white-dominated media elite; she might find it hard to do so by joining the dems Vs reps or conservatives vs liberals boxing ring; she is not attractive one bit to be peddled on Fox or CNN as an "expert", that theater is full, enough whites with a sprinkling of coloreds joining in on the tamasha as side-kicks taking one side or the other; so her best best to use everything she learnt at Columbia during her journalism 101 course to sound ultra "objective", ultra "neutral", and pile on India in the back drop of well done nods of approval from her TIME bosses. Go back and read every crap of hers on Kashmir or TSP; she is very careful not to deviate too much from the Pentagon, state dept, CIA scripted narrative of equal equal, never mentioning terrorism or Islamic extremism when it comes to the stone-pelting louts.

Most often, when I see anything on Kashmir or TSP-related terror against India by someone with an Indian sounding name in a western rag, I don't go beyond the first para.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 23 Aug 2010 00:18

Cloudburst hits Amarnath shrine, no casualties reported

A cloudburst hit the the holy cave shrine of Amarnath in south Kashmir [ Images ] Himalayas but there was no report of any casualties. "Today in the afternoon, a cloudburst was reported to hit the rear side of the holy cave mountain triggering a sudden rise in the water-level of the stream flowing near the area," a police spokesman said. Three tents were damaged in the incident but there was no loss of life, he said, adding people were evacuated to safety.

The last batch of 77 pilgrims left from Jammu for to the cave shrine. The yatra is set to conclude in the next two days. The batch comprising of 47 men, 29 women and 1 child left from the base camp of Bhagwati Nagar in two buses around 1000 hrs, officials said. The last batch of pilgrims is expected to reach to the base camps at Baltal and Nunwan in Pahalgam by the evening despite inclement weather.

Traffic was plying on Jammu-Srinagar National Highway despite rains at various places along the arterial road.
Around 4.55 lakh pilgrims have visited the shrine tillnow. Over 32,000 pilgrims, meanwhile, have performed darshan at the shrine of Budha Amarnath in Mandi area of Poonch district since the yatra started on August 13. Officials said that the holy mace will leave from Dashnami Akhara Mandir in Poonch town after traditional pooja on Monday. After a one-day halt of 'charri mubarak' (holy mace) at Mandi, the hawan will be performed at Budha Amarnath temple on August 24, they said, adding the mace will return to Poonch on August 25.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Aug 2010 05:29

From http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gu ... on_1427154

A front organisation of tribals in Jammu and Kashmir today said that the nomadic Gujjars and Bakerwals in the higher reaches of the state were facing shortage of food due to the ongoing unrest in the Valley and demanded that the government ensure the same for them.

The Tribal Research and Cultural Foundation, a front organisation of Gujjars in J&K, has written to the Centre and the state government for providing food, fodder and medicines to tribal Gujjars and Bakerwals and enabling them to sustain their way of life in the ongoing situation, secretary of the Tribal Foundation, Javaid Rahi, said.

In the wake of curfew and strikes in the Valley, the tribals at upper reaches of Pir Panjal and Zojila hills are facing shortage of essential commodities.

"The acute shortage of basic amenities in tribal areas has also forced the nomadic communities to start early migration towards the planes, two months ahead of their schedule," Rahi said.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 23 Aug 2010 08:02

Google rectifies mistake, shows entire J&K as part of India

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 23 Aug 2010 08:41

^ That "rectification" is only for India. Outside of India it is still "Disputed", so is Arunachal Pradesh.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 23 Aug 2010 09:13

^^^ Its time Indians started asserting themselves.. Write to Google, botycott and use bing/Yahoo/msn instead. Seriously

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Aug 2010 10:28

Crackdown on J&K stone-pelters continues

SRINAGAR: For the second consecutive day police continued their crackdown on miscreants indulging in stone-throwing and arrested 17 youths. A spokesman said the 17 were also wanted in different cases of mob violence. They were held from different parts of the city.

Clashes broke out in Chattabal here, when police removed a flag with an anti-national slogan. People came out on the streets in large numbers and staged protests. Subsequently, youth pelted stones on the police. Security forces resorted to teargas and then fired pellets. Eight persons injured in the firing were admitted to the Sheri Maharaja Hari Singh (SMHS) hospital and are stated to be out of danger.

A spokesman said the police conducted a flag march in old city after an objectionable flag was sighted. It was later removed. “Some miscreants pelted stones on the police. Police conducted a cane charge, used tear gas and pump action ammunition to chase them away,” he said.

Forty people were rounded up in Bemina area for alleged stone-throwing. However, 33 were released after questioning.

Sources said a list of around 500 “hard core” stone-pelters had been drawn up. “They have organised a huge network in the city and are not only involved in stone-pelting but also enforcing the strikes.”

Meanwhile, as soon as the authorities lifted restriction on the movement of moderate separatist leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, he visited the SMHS hospital and inquired about the patients injured in recent protests.

Background action seems to have started!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Aug 2010 15:04

Part 1. An unprecedented dialogue on Kashmir

&

Part 2 Kashmir's 'Azadi' with the tricolour

A two part report of a discusssion between the young MPs of diffrent political parties & the the young students of India. The young MPs of India did quite well for the nation. Regardless of the affiliation of the MPs. The Indianless of the politicions must have a strong effect on the young valley crowd and its preconcieved notions about India.

ravit · Post by **ravit** » 23 Aug 2010 17:07

Jarita wrote:^^^ Its time Indians started asserting themselves.. Write to Google, botycott and use bing/Yahoo/msn instead. Seriously

Everyone including google/yahoo/bing/wikimapia... do show Kashmir and Arunachal with dotted lines outside India. Boycotting Google really has no point since there is no alternative here.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Aug 2010 17:10

^^^ keep complaining

James B · Post by **James B** » 23 Aug 2010 17:22

Protestors in Kashmir face stones, their own bitter pill

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Aug 2010 21:04

James B wrote:Protestors in Kashmir face stones, their own bitter pill

TSP has to manage this situation well

. The last thing TSP wants is the KMs in the valley turning against one an another, and in the process exposing TSP and their puppet's game plan. I wouldn't say so conclusively yet, but it seems to me that US has not played dirty with India over the stone pelting yet. At least as of today, the stone pelting has received some attention in US govt moutpiece rags like NYT, but not enough to link Kashmir with AfPak as TSP and their TSP pasand India containment rougues in US like Zbig were hoping to extract. Stay tuned.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Aug 2010 21:09

they seem to have stayed out so far, and only the bleeding heart liberals have been objecting in the UK

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Aug 2010 21:12

Maybe even GoI is doing some "behind the scenes" activities to ensure that the Amrikis/British etc dont go overboard ( like warning of not providing Paki related intel etc)?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Aug 2010 21:16

well, i'm inclined to think that someone in GOI has made it clear that come hell or highwater, we aint shiftin' on the K word and everyone else can ashfaq off

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Aug 2010 21:48

For some years now, even the word Kashmir has not been raised first by the other party in our engagement with significant powers. We do not take kindly to other countries coming to us and raising the subject of Kashmir, and that includes that bloody fool Ban Ki Moon, an ineffectual and contemptible seat warmer, who has so far not taken action against his compromised underlings.

All of Jammu & Kashmir is our territory. The part which is now occupied by Pakistan will be recovered at a time, place and pace of our choosing. Only then, and only when it abandons with finality its ridiculously warped Islamic posture based on an unsustainably anachronistic and frankly laughable ideology, will Pakistan will be able or allowed to live in peace - nukes or no nukes.

What's it going to do? Send another Kasab?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Aug 2010 22:04

Even if another Kasab is sent. Just what do the Pakis hope he will achieve. India is not going to cower in front of these PIGS.

It was hearning to see that locals are taking on the goons. It will be the Raj Dharm of Omar Abdula to make sure that the Locals are not hurt by the Goons. Lets see how he succeeds.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Aug 2010 22:05

For some years now, even the word Kashmir has not been raised first by the other party in our engagement with significant powers. We do not take kindly to other countries coming to us and raising the subject of Kashmir, and that includes that bloody fool Ban Ki Moon, an ineffectual and contemptible seat warmer, who has so far not taken action against his compromised underlings.

Some thing tells me that even Shri Ba Ki Moon ( or the UN officials responsible for some K-talk) will be shown his/their place by GoI babus at a time and place of GoI choosing.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Aug 2010 01:26

>>Even if another Kasab is sent. Just what do the Pakis hope he will achieve.

>>Some thing tells me that even Shri Ba Ki Moon ( or the UN officials responsible for some K-talk) will be shown his/their place

Exactly my point. We should not underestimate unduly. We can be pretty stubborn

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 24 Aug 2010 01:41

JE Menon wrote:>>Even if another Kasab is sent. Just what do the Pakis hope he will achieve.

>>Some thing tells me that even Shri Ba Ki Moon ( or the UN officials responsible for some K-talk) will be shown his/their place

Exactly my point. We should not underestimate unduly. We can be pretty stubborn

This is the right time to repopulate Kashmir and make it reflect the ethnic mix of rest of the nation

wig · Post by **wig** » 24 Aug 2010 10:16

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20100824/main7.htm

Now stones reverse swing in the Valley
Fed up with strikes, traders revolt, hurl stones at protesters!

Srinagar, August 23
Fed up with repeated strikes by separatists in Kashmir, shopkeepers are up in arms against protesters, who are getting the taste of their own bitter pill as locals are attacking them with stones. Clerics have also started making fervent appeals from mosques to open shops and restore normalcy in areas affected by violence.

An incident of clash was recently reported from Peerbagh in Budgham district of central Kashmir — the scene of violent protests during the past few weeks.

As separatists and their supporters reached the area to enforce a strike, they were greeted with stones. Local traders showered stones on these rowdy elements, who tried to force them to close down their establishments.

The police could not do anything much to quell the locals as securitymen were outnumbered. Later, these traders reached the police station and filed an FIR against 10 persons of neighbouring Nabir Gund village, holding them responsible for spoiling peace and threatening the locals.

Far away in Anantnag in South Kashmir, an appeal for opening of shops was made as people were facing lot of hardships on account of frequent strikes during the Holy month of Ramzan.

The separatists’ strike calls have hit the economy and at many a places people have been seen selling off their belongings at distress rates.

The business of shopkeepers has suffered a lot as the turmoil not only brought tourism to an abrupt halt but also forced establishments to remain closed for nearly two months now. In Ompura area in central Kashmir, there have been instances of exchange of hot words between businessmen and anti-social elements when the former were forced to shut down their shops.

In Meehama (South Kashmir), four men were beaten up by locals three days back when they were trying to enforce a strike in the area. Senior police officials said people were voicing their concern and the police was only intervening to prevent situation from turning worse.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Aug 2010 10:21

The nutty nation is getting really desparate. Even in the midst of floods, they can't seem to let go off the Kashmir bug from their system, hyping up this so called Vigil before White House by some expatriate Kashmiri Muslim bigots like Ghulam Nabi Fai. I haven't seen any coverage of this in US media I follow: NYT, NPR etc. Has this been reported elsewhere apart from TSP nuts?

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Aug 2010 11:14

Yesterday a guy named Dr.Ghulam wrote a piece on Kashmir to orbat.com. I replied to the editor with anger and he has run my letter in the site. I would ask the gurus here to please look at the piece by Dr.Ghulam and provide much better reply than I have done. These chaps like Ghulam have to countered at every forum.

dada · Post by **dada** » 24 Aug 2010 12:53

Please Read the Following Blog

This Blog(especially the entry article is a real eye opener)
The real intention of the Muslims of Kashmir & their basic unchanging attitude towards kashmiri pandits is clearly revealed.

http://koshur.blogspot.com/

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 24 Aug 2010 13:26

A little more detail on why the mother-daughter were killed....

http://sify.com/news/mother-daughter-pa ... ciigb.html

Mother, daughter pay with their lives for seeking army help
2010-08-24 05:30:00

Srinagar: With life at a near standstill due to strikes and curfew, Shakeela Gorsi took her 9-year-old daughter Zareena to an army medical camp in sheer desperation. Both paid with their lives.

Four militants, suspected to be from Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), barged into the house of Mohammad Hussain Gorsi in Nadimarg in Dhamal Hanjipura area of Kulgam district, some 80 km from here, around 9 PM yesterday.

Their mission was to punish Gorsi for the "sin" committed by his wife by seeking army's medical help, police said.

The man was not not at home. His wife and daughter begged for forgiveness but their pleas did not not impress the terrorists who are active in the area. They pumped bullets into the mother and the daughter.

The local medical centre in the village was closed because of the strike call given by the separatists. Therefore the mother-daughter duo went to the nearby medical camp of army's Rashtriya Rifles.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 24 Aug 2010 13:29

Updates on the non-existant threats to the Sikhs....
http://sify.com/news/sikhs-in-kashmir-v ... ajjef.html

Rubbishing claims of the Jammu and Kashmir government that Sikhs in the valley had nothing to fear, several leaders of the community Monday said that they were facing 'acute harassment at the hands of miscreants' in the valley.

The community leaders, who had met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi last week and apprised him of the 'prevailing situation in the valley', made it clear that Sikhs in the valley were facing acute 'harassment at the hands of miscreants' who pelt their vehicles with stones.

The delegation, led by Ranjit Singh Sarhadi, chairman of Guru Nanak Foundation, a prominent group of Sikhs in the valley, told the prime minister that the 'miscreants were having a field day' in the valley as 'the government was non-existent'.

Addressing a press conference in Jammu Monday, Sarhadi pointed to the pasting of posters outside the houses of Sikhs in some parts of the valley, including Srinagar, threatening the community members. 'This is not something to be dismissed as an ordinary thing.'
...
'We are feeling unsafe. That's a fact. At the same time, the elements are out there to communalise the situation, that also is a fact,' Sarhadi said.

Earlier, the Omar Abdullah government had said there was 'no truth' in the news of the threat to Sikhs in the valley. It had also assured full protection to the 60,000 Sikh community, the largest minority in the Valley after 350,000 Kashmiri Hindus fled their homes in 1990s under fear of persecution by Islamic militants.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 24 Aug 2010 15:45

Crisis in Kashmir
India squandered its opportunity for political reform.
By ASHOK K. MEHTA

Kashmiris are using every avenue they have—from stones to the Internet—to demand azaadi, or freedom. The mostly spontaneous upheaval involves young men, women and even children.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

Why is Gen Mehta kissing ass? He seems to have been hanging around a lot with US think tanks lately ...

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Aug 2010 16:10

^^^^Dollahoakbar, I guess.

How the mighty fall. Only.

Kukreja · Post by **Kukreja** » 24 Aug 2010 19:40

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/sair/index.htm
Kashmir: Orchestrated Rage

Chief Minster Omar Abdullah on March 2, 2010, described 2009 as the "most peaceful year" over 20 years of turmoil in the State. While trends in terrorist incidents and fatalities continue to decline, the spurt in street violence over the past nearly two-and-a-half months has created a new specter of widening disruption in several parts of the Valley. Political temperatures and administrative concerns have spiraled with the disorders, though the situation is far from being nearly as desperate as is sometimes painted to be. Contrary to popular perceptions, coloured by hysterical media reportage, only small parts of the Valley – itself a fraction of the State – have been engulfed violence, much of which is meticulously stage-managed.

As many 60 protesters have been killed by the Security Force (SFs) in 72-days of street violence since June 11, 2010. If these killings are mapped across the Kashmir Valley, it is seen that, deaths have been reported from seven out of 10 Districts, and four – Baramulla (17 killed), Srinagar (15), Anantnag (11) and Pulwama (11) - have reported fatalities in double digits. The other Districts from where deaths have been reported include Kulgam (3), Kupwara (2) and Bandipora (1). More importantly, Shopian, Ganderbal and Budgam Districts recorded no deaths, though there were reports of sporadic violence in these areas as well. A total of 872 stone-pelting incidents have been recorded in June and July and 1,266 SF personnel have been injured in these two months alone.

Nevertheless, the widespread impression that the present disturbances represent a popular uprising, or that ‘things are worse than they were in the early 1990’s’ is utterly misconceived. The troubles have largely been orchestrated within a minuscule segment of the population, in small areas of the Valley, and the disruption caused is principally a measure of the incompetence of administrative response, rather than of any irresistible upsurge of popular sentiment. The timetables of the stone pelting campaigns have been defined by separatists, in the main led by the Hurriyat Conference – Geelani (G) chairman Syed Ahmed Shah Geelani, backed by Pakistan and its proxy militant groupings in Kashmir. Intelligence available on the profiles of protesters suggests that they include a large number of ‘seasoned campaigners’, provocateurs who have taken up stone pelting as a lucrative business. In an interview in April 2010, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah thus stated, "The industry of stone pelting is very much in our radar. We have in fact been able to identify to a couple of big business houses, one in particular who has used to his network of dealers to route the money through."

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 24 Aug 2010 19:49

I was just reading a book and there is a very interesting passage from Rudyad Kipling
"its a hard law but an old one.. - rome died learning it, as our western civilization may die- that if you give any man ( kashmiri in our case) anything that he has not painfully earned for himself ( economic packages) , you infallibly make him or his descendants your devoted enemies '

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Aug 2010 20:23

Pranav wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

Why is Gen Mehta kissing ass? He seems to have been hanging around a lot with US think tanks lately ...

He is not alone. I have come across several retd armed forces officers talking along the same lines. Its a worrying trend in my mind. These guys, inbstead of hanbging around Americans and TSPians, and WKKs, and make a fool of themselves must instead be told to work on a military doctrine to hit TSP and the so called Kashmir dispute will be solved in a heartbeat.

But he does make one good point. US support to TSP is what emboldens it to punch above its weight when it comes to India.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 24 Aug 2010 21:35

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/20 ... ears/2403/

Makes me sad. The whole brainwashing of these people led to believe a free Kashmir is in their best interest is pitiable. The people are now clearly motivated to take harsh and foolish steps.
I fear our govt is fighting a lost battle against these savage acts who see no reason to co-exist with us.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Aug 2010 21:40

dada wrote:Please Read the Following Blog

This Blog(especially the entry article is a real eye opener)
The real intention of the Muslims of Kashmir & their basic unchanging attitude towards kashmiri pandits is clearly revealed.

http://koshur.blogspot.com/

There is lot of filth build up in the Valeey and it require through washing with high preassure pump.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Aug 2010 21:46

Muppalla wrote:Google rectifies mistake, shows entire J&K as part of India

Why go after google when we have subversive @#$% in the GOI.

These guys should be shot.

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/2366.html?from=tn

Government websites also show PoK as Pakistan

BORDER IRONY
While the Indian government issued a notice to Google for showing Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) as part of Pakistan, a number of government websites continue display maps that are incongruent to India's stand on the map issue.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Aug 2010 21:59

stinkybread wrote:http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/20 ... ears/2403/

Makes me sad. The whole brainwashing of these people led to believe a free Kashmir is in their best interest is pitiable. The people are now clearly motivated to take harsh and foolish steps.
I fear our govt is fighting a lost battle against these savage acts who see no reason to co-exist with us.

Govt. will fight as long as people of India want them to fight. Thus these terrorists can fight all they want, they are not going to win against people of India.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Aug 2010 22:00

i doubt if palestine is so heavily infiltrated by the wahabbi revolutionaries

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Aug 2010 08:53

Kashmir: Finding the face of the protestor - Suhasini Haider

The alienation of thought became even more apparent after the flash floods in Leh this month. While the Chief Minister, the Prime Minister, and the Congress' “youth icon” Rahul Gandhi's visit to the affected in Choglumsar was heart warming in its immediacy, it also contrasted starkly with the lack of such gestures to families and friends who lost boys and girls in the Valley protests.

What an abominable comparison. Let us remember that more than 1500 police personnel have been injured because they were instructed to show 'maximum restraint'. Why should the PM console the families of those who are anti-Indian ?

But it is these very faces of protest that the leaders must learn to engage with — not some maniacal mob cornering policemen inside their bunkers, but educated, rational thinking youngsters who shout for Azaadi and yearn for justice and recognition of their very real grievances.

If they are 'rational thinking', they would not be shouting 'Azaadi' and supporting anti-India activities. BTW, what exactly are their 'very real grievances' ? Everybody uses these words but none spells them out. If 'azaadi' is their very real grievance, tough luck.

It was, after all, the call for calm from Geelani that gave Kashmir its first day of peace in eight weeks on August 6.

Did not Praveen Swami write that the new generation does not listen to people like Geelani any more ?