Indian Army: News & Discussion

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 22 Aug 2010 21:57

Cross - Post from Commonwealth Games thread on Economic Forum:

I am a NRI whose home is in Delhi and rooting for the Commonwealth Games. However based on the request by CWG organizing committee, if I was the MoD or the Army Chief of Staff, I would telll Jaipal and Kalmadi to go fvck themselves. They have to pay for the operating costs. They don't have to pay for the salaries but they must pay for the operating costs if they want the Army to do the job otherwise they can suck a goat's private parts for all eternity. If their reason is lack of money, well the first thing to do is look into Jaipal and Kalmadi's offshore bank accounts and seize any assets these two guys own and auction them off and use the proceeds to pay for the operating costs of the Army.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Aug 2010 02:09

anirban_aim wrote:Sometimes I feel with a loser of a polity like this, may this country doesn't deserve an Army (all Armed Forces for that matter) it has. In times like this in utter frustration I think if only, if only some our generals were like their Paki counterparts. May be mid night raid on their houses and few massacres of a few hi fi families will put the teach them to treat the forces with more respect....

Then we will end up like Pakistan with a tinpot Army as versus the current professional force. Lets not go overboard.
The issue is with corruption and the shameful Indian public that allows corruption to thrive unchecked and unpunished. We elect the rulers we deserve.

I hope the games are the biggest flop of the millenium. I hope the IOC's face is rubbed in the mud. I hope IOC gets banned from conducting any further games.

Who benefits from this? Another generation of sportsmen and others will suffer.

My only fear is that its only a matter of time before the Army is even called out for anti Maoist duties, may be then our so called or so potrayed all Strong Man of a Home Minister will ask some question to his beloved IPS babus as to why the CRPF is in such a rump.

This Sucks... Sucks.... Sucks....

Fighting the Maoists is a given, if the CPF's are not upto the task - and why would they be, given their lackluster funding and lack of mandate in this arena till a few years back. A few showpiece units like AR dont count. The bane of India is the "no plan is a good plan" policy, which has now been followed by "make plans" but dont execute, or eat up all the money instead.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Aug 2010 02:10

Hitesh wrote:Cross - Post from Commonwealth Games thread on Economic Forum:

I am a NRI whose home is in Delhi and rooting for the Commonwealth Games. However based on the request by CWG organizing committee, if I was the MoD or the Army Chief of Staff, I would telll Jaipal and Kalmadi to go fvck themselves. They have to pay for the operating costs. They don't have to pay for the salaries but they must pay for the operating costs if they want the Army to do the job otherwise they can suck a goat's private parts for all eternity. If their reason is lack of money, well the first thing to do is look into Jaipal and Kalmadi's offshore bank accounts and seize any assets these two guys own and auction them off and use the proceeds to pay for the operating costs of the Army.

Well said.

It would be a travesty if the IA is forced to pay for such allocations.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 23 Aug 2010 08:54

Karan M wrote:
anirban_aim wrote:Sometimes I feel with a loser of a polity like this, may this country doesn't deserve an Army (all Armed Forces for that matter) it has. In times like this in utter frustration I think if only, if only some our generals were like their Paki counterparts. May be mid night raid on their houses and few massacres of a few hi fi families will put the teach them to treat the forces with more respect....
Then we will end up like Pakistan with a tinpot Army as versus the current professional force. Lets not go overboard.
The issue is with corruption and the shameful Indian public that allows corruption to thrive unchecked and unpunished. We elect the rulers we deserve.

I hope the games are the biggest flop of the millenium. I hope the IOC's face is rubbed in the mud. I hope IOC gets banned from conducting any further games.
Who benefits from this? Another generation of sportsmen and others will suffer.

My only fear is that its only a matter of time before the Army is even called out for anti Maoist duties, may be then our so called or so potrayed all Strong Man of a Home Minister will ask some question to his beloved IPS babus as to why the CRPF is in such a rump.

This Sucks... Sucks.... Sucks....
Fighting the Maoists is a given, if the CPF's are not upto the task - and why would they be, given their lackluster funding and lack of mandate in this arena till a few years back. A few showpiece units like AR dont count. The bane of India is the "no plan is a good plan" policy, which has now been followed by "make plans" but dont execute, or eat up all the money instead.

I guess I can agree that some these pests need at least a kambal parade and a frog march.

I too hope CWG flop, so that some get the above mentioned treatment. Shashi Tharoor was fired for much less in comparison, it seems.

Also, in CPOs as they are led by IPS on the top it is their responsibility. After all they start showing up for the top spots. Funding is again controlled by their sister services.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 23 Aug 2010 14:04

ManuT wrote:
anirban_aim wrote:
My only fear is that its only a matter of time before the Army is even called out for anti Maoist duties, may be then our so called or so potrayed all Strong Man of a Home Minister will ask some question to his beloved IPS babus as to why the CRPF is in such a rump.

This Sucks... Sucks.... Sucks.... :evil
Also, in CPOs as they are led by IPS on the top it is their responsibility. After all they start showing up for the top spots. Funding is again controlled by their sister services.

Karan M wrote: Fighting the Maoists is a given, if the CPF's are not upto the task - and why would they be, given their lackluster funding and lack of mandate in this arena till a few years back. A few showpiece units like AR dont count. The bane of India is the "no plan is a good plan" policy, which has now been followed by "make plans" but dont execute, or eat up all the money instead.

Continuing the discussion in the CPMF Forum

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 24 Aug 2010 04:54

Centre Steps Up Army Deployment along China Border

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Aug 2010 16:01

Sandeep Unnithan has a report in IToday about the "ghost rifles",where the DRDO has built a factory at Amethi costing 4,000+ crores when the 5.56 calibre rifle hasn't even been developed! An earlier design failed the test. The IA is desperate for a replacement for the INSAS assault rifle.Without the design being passed/approved by the Army,the machinery for its manufacture cannot be purchased and this too when existing Ordnance factories at Trichy,etc.,are below full capacity.Surely someone's head should roll and the GOI of the day in its second term and the DRDO boffins responsible for the fiasco cannot pass the buck.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Aug 2010 17:54

so DRDO has built a 'factory' (since when is DRDO a manufacturing unit ?), IA is 'desperate' for a replacement for INSAS, a rifle that has only seen full fledged service for a decade or so. most armies spend 2-3 decades with a single design and derivatives but not apparently IA.
and IA hasn't approved the indigenous design (no wonder there).

is it just me but does this have "we want foreign at all cost" written all over it ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Aug 2010 18:00

and the amethi location is a giveaway who is behind it. all hail the M-16 !

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 24 Aug 2010 19:53

Rahul M wrote:is it just me but does this have "we want foreign at all cost" written all over it ?

India will never agree to something as basic and fundamental as its regular-issue small arms to be imported, which basically means license manufacturing. Unlike other equipment, a soldier's personal weapons must always be indegenously produceable to prepare for the worst-case scenario (in fact there should always be a non-strat-mat variant, using no complex alloys or plastics). A design, Indian or foreign, once given to OFB will suffer the same fate. The only solution, it seems to me, is to induce a couple of major Indian conglomerates into this line of work to foster competetion, innovation and quality control.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 24 Aug 2010 19:55

Here we go again. IA (and good old phillip) does not like local products again! Maybe they need to miniaturise the T-90 so that they could load miniature tank shells that would expand upon firing to real size and take out the enemy at ranges upto 2-3 km.

Buying so much foreign stuff will bankrupt the country.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Aug 2010 20:00

Rahul M wrote:so DRDO has built a 'factory' (since when is DRDO a manufacturing unit ?), IA is 'desperate' for a replacement for INSAS, a rifle that has only seen full fledged service for a decade or so. most armies spend 2-3 decades with a single design and derivatives but not apparently IA.
and IA hasn't approved the indigenous design (no wonder there).

is it just me but does this have "we want foreign at all cost" written all over it ?

I actually alluded to the INSAS imbroglio in another thread, yes, this has "import written all over it" and even some in the IA are not happy with how a local design is being thrown to the wolves, its the Arjun all over again, as its doubtful whether there voices will be heard.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Aug 2010 20:07

ParGha, for that matter virtually all military items that we use in significant numbers are license produced, that doesn't conflict with the 'foreign' requirement. I agree about OFB though, if anything deserves to be sold off, it's OFB factories.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Aug 2010 20:59

Maybe they need to miniaturise the T-90 so that they could load miniature tank shells that would expand upon firing to real size and take out the enemy at ranges upto 2-3 km.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 25 Aug 2010 01:29

This unnecessary spending of 4000 crores is surely a colossal wast of money...No two opinions about that...

But if we try to think in a positive way from the jingoes point of view then it means, as this factory has now come up, it means that DRDO is definitely working on a new indigenous rifle.

There have been some rumors in the past that no new rifle is being developed but now at least those rumors have been proved to be wrong.

Regarding the disapproval of design by the Army, it is not something that cannot be improved. I am sure DRDO will be come up with a better design. We have seen INSAS Carbine that was rejected by the Army but then came the MSMC which has been appreciated by the services.

Be +ve

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 29 Aug 2010 03:58

Join the Indian Army get Rs 52 lakh as incentive

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 29 Aug 2010 05:46

India to modernise Russian-made T-72 tanks: Antony

India will refurbish Russian-origin T-72 tanks operated by its Army instead of completely phasing them out, Defence Minister A K Antony has said.

While the Army has placed an order with DRDO to acquire 124 indigenously-built Arjun Main Battle Tanks (MBTs), “it intends to retrofit/upgrade these tanks (T-72) to enhance their mission reliability and life expectancy,” Antony told the Parliament.

The Army has so far received 85 Arjun MBTs. “Keeping in view the production capacity for MBT Arjun Tanks and strategic considerations, the Government is also exercising the option for modernising T-72 tanks instead of total replacement of these tanks on completion of their life span,” Antony said.

Wonder how long it will increase the life expectancy of these antique pieces.. Might just turn out to be more feasible to order more Arjuns in the long run.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Aug 2010 09:27

Yhea, IA is getting an upgrade for Human Tandoor 72 to Tandoor 72 MKI. Whoopee.

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 29 Aug 2010 12:15

Army to induct 'offensive' corps along China border

Sources told TOI that the defence ministry has proposed the setting up of a Mountain Strike Corps and two Independent Brigades along the China border. The proposed corps would be India's fourth strike corps and the only one dedicated for offensive operations in mountainous terrain.

Presently, Indian Army is engaged in raising two mountain divisions along the border with the giant neighbour. The proposed strike corps and two independent brigades would be separate from the two divisions being raised, he said.

The Army proposal, now under consideration at the highest levels of the government, envisages an expenditure of Rs 9,500 crore. The cost is primarily for new equipment such as ultra light howitzers and helicopters required for creating these highly mobile units. Units of the strike corps, to be based somewhere in the northeast, would be capable of operating like rapid reaction forces. The strike corps would have two divisions and other support troops

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Aug 2010 16:21

Finally, SC gives a jhapad to Mohandas Pai and co and closes the issue:
War memorial in City gets SC approval

Dismissing a petition by Bangalore-based The Krishna Apartment Owners’ Welfare Association, a Bench comprising Justices G S Singhvi and A K Ganguly observed that there was no alienation of land and the structure would be constructed underground.

A Division Bench of the Karnataka High Court on June 4 had dismissed the PIL filed by the association challenging the construction of the memorial.

Karnataka Advocate General Ashok Haranhalli, Senior advocates Aftab Alam, Udaya Holla and Anitha Shenoy appearing for Karnataka government and other organisations submitted that there was no alienation or transfer of land while granting permission to construct the memorial.

The State Government and the Indian Army have planned to construct the martyr’s memorial and a 10,000 sq ft underground auditorium in a six acre land earmarked for the purpose, Shenoy submitted.

On 17 acres

Indira Gandhi Memorial Park is located in 17 acres and the greenery will be restored after the construction of the memorial, he said.

Most of the memorial structure will be underground and only four eucalyptus trees have been felled for the structure, he added.

National Military Memorial Trust has been constituted under the chairmanship of the Chief Minister of Karnataka and members from Army and Home department for the maintenance of the memorial, said the state government.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Aug 2010 16:45

^^^ A great news, let it be the first of many.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Aug 2010 17:02

Soldier of this nation is remembered only in case of war or natural calamity. Otherwise, he is a non-entity residing in the fringe memory of his countrymen. To be cheered only during 26th January celebrations or Mumbai type crisis situations.

A small and much required gesture like a war memorial brings out the 'concerned citizens' of this nation. And why? Maybe, because the view from their balconies while sipping their morning tea or having their tipple in evening may get disturbed. Somehow, these concerned citizens are nowhere to be seen with their PIL when other more pressing matters ail this country. But then, the simple fauji, wedded to this nation like a Pitamaha, by virtue of his oath to this nation and his uniform, is an easy picking for the piranhas in corridors of power and certain 'concerned citizens'. For they know, he cannot and will not fight back. Memorial or no memorial, he will continue with his duty - come hell or high water. And then, we say that not many want to join the Services.

Indeed, mera Bharat Mahan

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 31 Aug 2010 17:41

a small silver lining

hope the krishna apartment buggers rot in hell

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 31 Aug 2010 20:24

rohitvats wrote: And why? Maybe, because the view from their balconies while sipping their morning tea or having their tipple in evening may get disturbed.

Upstart businessmen like these Infy folks cannot even hold a candle to established business houses like the Tatas who runs their show, help the country and its countrymen, or at least leave them alone. High time the hyped up gang of software majors (colonels, brigadiers also) are shown in their true colours. And if I am not mistaken Infy was the first company who started whining for CRPF/CISF security

.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 31 Aug 2010 21:13

Sachin wrote: And if I am not mistaken Infy was the first company who started whining for CRPF/CISF security .

OT
i belive they are the only ones asking for cisf cover. Even some of the defence PSU's/ research Instt's do without CISF cover..

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 01 Sep 2010 02:46

rohitvats wrote:Soldier of this nation is remembered only in case of war or natural calamity. Otherwise, he is a non-entity residing in the fringe memory of his countrymen. To be cheered only during 26th January celebrations or Mumbai type crisis situations.

A small and much required gesture like a war memorial brings out the 'concerned citizens' of this nation. And why? Maybe, because the view from their balconies while sipping their morning tea or having their tipple in evening may get disturbed. Somehow, these concerned citizens are nowhere to be seen with their PIL when other more pressing matters ail this country. But then, the simple fauji, wedded to this nation like a Pitamaha, by virtue of his oath to this nation and his uniform, is an easy picking for the piranhas in corridors of power and certain 'concerned citizens'. For they know, he cannot and will not fight back. Memorial or no memorial, he will continue with his duty - come hell or high water. And then, we say that not many want to join the Services.

Indeed, mera Bharat Mahan

Build as they may, nda is the best living memorial to the Indian soldier.

Vril · Post by **Vril** » 02 Sep 2010 18:34

Burqa nailed and exposed

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/sep/ ... kargil.htm

see the comments. there is light at the end of the tunnel after all

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Sep 2010 01:22

2 Generals move AFT for command posting

Retired General lynched

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 04 Sep 2010 09:39

Indian army likes U.S. weaponry

India's Ministry of Defense is placing orders for U.S. armaments following joint exercises with U.S. military forces. Russia has traditionally been India's largest arms supplier but following evidence of the capabilities of U.S. military equipment during joint exercises with the Indian army, navy and air force, the Indian army decided to purchase of several hundred Javelin anti-tank guided missiles, demonstrated during the war games, the Telegraph reported Friday.

The Javelins were deployed for Indian forces for the first time in the Yudh Abhyas 09 joint military exercise in Babina, the largest war game that the two armies have had. A Ministry of Defense source said: "We have sent a letter of request to the U.S. government. We want to procure the Javelin ATGMs with an agreement for transfer of technology." One point that has yet to be negotiated is the final cost of the ATGMs, which is significantly higher than the army's current anti-tank weapon, Milan anti-tank missiles made in India with French collaboration.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 04 Sep 2010 23:54

Amphibious ICV tested in Medak

...
The Ordnance Factory has been manufacturing the amphibious Russian military vehicles (BMP-II) for some time now, and supplies 120 of these ICVs to the Army. The rigorous testing in the factory about the vehicle's water resistance apart, the Army too does its own field testing.

Villagers amazed

The ‘Sarath' has a top speed of 60 km an hour on the ground, and about 7 kmph over water. This time, the Army selected two tanks at random and took them out for a spin. They were driven out to Malkapur and tested in water for close to two hours.

...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Sep 2010 23:59

The one takeaway from the article is that annual production rate of BMP-II is 120 vehicles. That is increment of two Mechanized Battalions per annum.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 05 Sep 2010 00:56

125 actually.

And this has now been enhanced to 200 a year. However Medak will continue to do 125 a year with the rest being done by Jabalpur.

take a look at this

http://hindu.com/2009/03/04/stories/200 ... 940300.htm

and this

http://hindu.com/2009/07/20/stories/200 ... 160400.htm

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Sep 2010 01:06

^^^Many thanx. This means close to 4 Mechanized Battalions can be raised/converted.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Sep 2010 10:42

rohitvats wrote:^^^Many thanx. This means close to 4 Mechanized Battalions can be raised/converted.

DELETED

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Sep 2010 10:48

RohitVats,

How different is the Guards ToE diff from Mech Inf.

cheers

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 06 Sep 2010 10:55

ks_sachin wrote:RohitVats,

How different is the Guards ToE diff from Mech Inf.

cheers

None, as far as I know. They have same ToE and used in similar role.

The difference in ToE are for Recce & Support Battalions of Brigade of Guards and Mechanized Infantry Regiment. Each RAPID had (has?) two Mechanized Battalions - one R&S and other the orthodox Mechanized Battalion. These R&S Battalions are specialy tailored for the said role. And most of them fixed locations in terms of postings (two locations between which they alternate). There were four of them earlier....should be upto seven now. But then, my knowledge of their ToE is a bit-outdated.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Sep 2010 11:04

Thanks.
Another question. As part of their mechanisation did the Guards Bns get seeded by Mech Inf troops / offrs? If yes to what extent.

Also how are the training establishment arrangements working out....

cheers

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 06 Sep 2010 13:12

ks_sachin wrote:Thanks.

Another question. As part of their mechanisation did the Guards Bns get seeded by Mech Inf troops / offrs? If yes to what extent.

Also how are the training establishment arrangements working out....

cheers

ks_sachin, I've no answer for the first question. As for training, each Regiment has it's own Training Center. Now, the jawans will sure be trained initially in these centers - but as to where does their technical training (BMP crews/technicians/ATGM firing etc) happens, within respective centers or in some common training establishment, I don't know.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Sep 2010 17:29

^^^There 10 Mountain Divisions (MD) to begin with. Plus one more, 3rd Infantry Division is based in Leh and takes care of LAC but is not a Mountain Division.

GOI has sanctioned 2 new MD for NE and these are already operational. The initial strength will be predominantly made-up of troops drawn from other formations. Which in turn will be filled up with newer raisings.

In addition to above, there have been two more reports - one talks about 2 new MDs for northern area of operations and another talks about Strike HQ with two new divisions for NE. Plus, plans for raising two Independent Mountain Infantry Brigades for Ladakh and Uttaranchal have also been sanctioned.

Check this link: http://www.dailypioneer.com/265796/Brac ... -told.html. It talks clearly about 2 new MD for NE in addition to those sanctioned earlier. And IMO, these are for the Mountain Strike Corps.

Hence, the 6 new MD number.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Sep 2010 17:49

My bad. There are 10 Mountain Divisions. I missed one.