Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 23 Aug 2010 14:18

Shivji, all the 135 images in your folder are visible from the above links.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Aug 2010 14:21

Arya Sumantra wrote:Shivji, all the 135 images in your folder are visible from the above links.

Its OK

The folder is called BRF. There is nothing private in any of the folders and nothing on the BRF folder that has not been linked on here before. Thanks anyway.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 23 Aug 2010 16:33

Hi
Anybody working on IED detection ? Is there any non-invasive IED detection available with our police/defense forces.Please don't askeme to google, it's about specific things in India.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 23 Aug 2010 20:08

Thanks a lot to BR admin who has appreciated and acknowledged our humble effort. For long wiki pedia has been a good and open source for various information but we wanted to have a special military and defense related wiki pedia where will can get a lot of information at one place and also have greater participation from people interested in defense and military.
We are banking on the support and advices from prominent sources to make the place better and appealing, the primary objective is that this site will and cannot be edited by anonymous people , we are looking at professional and prominent people to add to the data, some of the features of the website is
1:- No editing by members. Only people with specific permissions can modify the data, so that people cant play mischief and we create a good and reliable source of data
2.:- Members who are registered can leave their opinions and comments on the particles via a comments feature , also a discussion page with help to discuss matters related to the topic.
3:- the site is open for all to read and access.
4.:- a team of prominent members will review the articles and edit out any anomalies we are looking to add a lot of foreign members to this team too to maintain good pages from all the countries.
5. this is just a first step and a slow process we are looking for the support and help from all sources to take this forward.

The url is: http://www.defencewiki.net/

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 23 Aug 2010 22:02

andy B wrote:Bala saar, IMVHO kind of a moot point to convert Lakshya into a CM considering we have brahmos and now nirbhay in the pipeline.

Besides let us wait till the pic clears up a bit on nirbhay who is to say that stuff from Lakshya (parts and knowledge) is/was not used in Nirbhay?

On another note look at the design of CM from past and present, they have a long slender body with thin short wings and tail fins, IMO the Lakshya's wings are too broad for a CM.

I do think that a more useful way to utilise the Lakshya is that given it has a decent payload and range pack a nice big jammer into it and send a pack over tibet then send terrain hugging nirbhays and supersonic brahmos and watch the big bird of tongchi go... JMT onlee

Andysaan, i was thinking that when we have a pilotless aircraft with a decent enough range and payload, why not convert that into a CM first and then go about devoloping a new one.. JMO... But all the same, thanks for the gyan...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Aug 2010 07:20

Bala Vignesh wrote: Andysaan, i was thinking that when we have a pilotless aircraft with a decent enough range and payload, why not convert that into a CM first and then go about devoloping a new one.. JMO... But all the same, thanks for the gyan...

I don't have an answer to your question. But a lot of us said exactly the same thing when we first saw pictures of the Lakshya - so it is unlikely that the though has not occurred at all to the designers and users.

One possibility is that a Lakshya type UCAV would not survive modern air defences - I am certain that Indians know what they can shoot down and what they can't and probably know a thing or two about Lakshya that is not obvious to us. Secondly - that Iranian UCAV's bomb load is not that impressive. Prima facie it looks like it carries dumb bombs - which would only be good to cause a bang and some terrorism. What you need is PGMs and a way to navigate, identify and marl targets.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2010 07:35

Twenty years after its first publication, this book continues to be regarded as the standard work on model aircraft, attracting worldwide interest and approval. This new edition includes new sections incorporating new research and developments in model flying practice. The book presents standard aerodynamic theory as it applies to model flight in a concise and practical form for enthusiasts wishing to better understand the behavior of their models in flight

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 24 Aug 2010 08:35

shiv wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote: Andysaan, i was thinking that when we have a pilotless aircraft with a decent enough range and payload, why not convert that into a CM first and then go about devoloping a new one.. JMO... But all the same, thanks for the gyan...
I don't have an answer to your question. But a lot of us said exactly the same thing when we first saw pictures of the Lakshya - so it is unlikely that the though has not occurred at all to the designers and users.

One possibility is that a Lakshya type UCAV would not survive modern air defences - I am certain that Indians know what they can shoot down and what they can't and probably know a thing or two about Lakshya that is not obvious to us. Secondly - that Iranian UCAV's bomb load is not that impressive. Prima facie it looks like it carries dumb bombs - which would only be good to cause a bang and some terrorism. What you need is PGMs and a way to navigate, identify and marl targets.

Agreed Shiv saar,

My first thoughts were the same that Lakshya's RCS relative to a CM would probably end up being too big for effective use.

The other point is to understand how effective would Lakshya be in a ground hugging ride?

I still however think if the payload capacity can be used to load up with Jammers and other ECM equipment they could be quite effective in a soosai one way mission just to provide extra juicy targets for Sams so that the real intruders can get in and do their job...cost would be a big concern I suppose but I am sure one big bird costs equal to many lakshyas

Ramana garu, thanks for the book will look it up. I am still struggling a little with understanding all the concepts in Lightning Bolts by Mr Yengst. Overall though really has opened up the understanding and concept of a BGRV and ofcourse helps one understand why the Shourya, etc are so critical today....when you think about it now we have missiles that cover such a huge spectrum of travel in that from the up and coming Nirbhay that may very well be flying very low to the brahmos which can try and do either to Shourya to the pure ballistic Prithvi/AGNI....wonder what kind of a terrible headache the enemy would have if a bunch of these are launched together towards one target you'd have to try and monitor the airspace in all regimes of flight....

BTW Shiv saar, I started going through ACM Philip's LCA Book again, thank you again for getting that book to me....
P.S. may be Bose babu can build us some models on his TFTA macs...

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 24 Aug 2010 08:39

Mods, I wonder if it is wothwhile to have a tech-aerospace thread? The aim of the thread should be to firstly act as a repository for different aero-tech related articles for brfites to be able to discuss different aspects/principles/phenomena of the same...and on that note we can also scour some of the threads and collect some very informative posts made by Vina, Ncubus Maximus, Shiv, itday...IIRC there were a few on the LCA thread then there was also that discussion about Airbus 330 and its safety record...etc

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Aug 2010 08:40

Look at Lakhshya's range and payload, its power plant in its as is form at best can only serve as a testbed for platforms using a small turbofan engine . A small turbofan powered air breathing CM imho becomes practically viable only when it can deliver a substantial payload over considerably longer range than a solid fueled missile of a comparable form factor , specially when solid fueled motor technology has matured to a point where lower CEP figures comparable to the liquid fueled missiles can be achieved.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Aug 2010 12:18

shiv sir, andy sir and negi sir, many thanks for the gyan... Also shiv sir, is that book on LCA an e-book?? If so could you please forward a copy to me else guide me where i can purchase it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Aug 2010 21:35

Bala Vignesh wrote:shiv sir, andy sir and negi sir, many thanks for the gyan... Also shiv sir, is that book on LCA an e-book?? If so could you please forward a copy to me else guide me where i can purchase it.

Bala Vignesh - I suspect you and the author live in the same city. If he still has a copy for sale I can ask him. I's not an e book.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 24 Aug 2010 22:29

shiv wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:shiv sir, andy sir and negi sir, many thanks for the gyan... Also shiv sir, is that book on LCA an e-book?? If so could you please forward a copy to me else guide me where i can purchase it.
Bala Vignesh - I suspect you and the author live in the same city. If he still has a copy for sale I can ask him. I's not an e book.

If there are no copies in bangalore, I suggest buying it online through lancer
http://www.lancerpublishers.com/catalog ... cts_id=532
(Usual disclaimer about no commercial interest with lancer)

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Aug 2010 23:15

thank you shivji... Please do ask the good air marshal...
Jagangaru thanks for the tip... Will exercise the option if the previous one doesn't work out... And about that article sir, i'll send it for proof reading the next sunday when i get back home...

Axel · Post by **Axel** » 25 Aug 2010 14:45

Hi, I'm new on the forum, and I was wondering if any of you could help me : I'm working on a PhD about indian cyberwarfare capabilities, and I'd be interested in reading the "Joint Doctrine for Electronic Warfare" released last february, but I just can't find it. Would any of you be kind enough to provide me a link or something ? Thanks...

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 25 Aug 2010 19:24

Hari Nair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:oh please, not a naming discussion again. use the mil misc thread if you absolutely can't do without it.
Yeah, we followed your 'naming' discussion quite closely actually! Even we have been tying ourselves up in quite a few knots on that one!
At the risk of getting some brickbats thrown on me for re-opening it all over again, does any one has a good name to suggest??

Vajra (Thunderbolt) for LCH

Mayuresh · Post by **Mayuresh** » 25 Aug 2010 19:25

From LCH Thread:

Hari Nair wrote: Yeah, we followed your 'naming' discussion quite closely actually! Even we have been tying ourselves up in quite a few knots on that one!
At the risk of getting some brickbats thrown on me for re-opening it all over again, does any one has a good name to suggest??

I suggest Cheetah - light, swift, stealthy and also a tribute to the light helicoptor that has served the Indian Armed Forces over the last 2-3 decades with distinction!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 25 Aug 2010 19:51

Taking the naming convention here.

Being an attack heli, Vajra seem the right term. The one that strike like a thunderbolt from the sky. Since it's already taken by the Mirage 2000's it seem impossible. So something that strikes from the sky and is a fearsome one will be better to strike fears into the minds of the enemy. Is Garuda name already taken? Something like AgniVarsha combining two terms is also possible if it can strike fear into the enemies mind.
Our armoured carriers can be named after Bagh, Magarmach (amphib tanks) etc.

The only criteria must be that name must not be a fancy name but must really create fear in the minds of the enemy during war. The name itself must be capable of deterring them. BRFities must tryout such fearsome names.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/tibetandei ... apalas.htm
Dharmapala
Yama seems the right term for LCH.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Aug 2010 20:11

continuing the naming discussion.

this is the link to last round http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 46#p850746

my choice was some variation of snow leopard (tushar cheetah) since it will hunt in the mountains where these graceful agile beasts hunt.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Aug 2010 20:18

I would suggest "Shikra". It is a medium sized bird of prey of the Himalayan region with short wings and long tail adapted for high manoeuvrability. Also, its mode of hunting is surprise attacks. See here.

Alternatively we can name it "Besra".

Naming the LCH on a light/medium sized bird of prey opens up the name of "Baaz" etc for heavier attack helicopters that we might develop later.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Aug 2010 21:06

Hari Nair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:oh please, not a naming discussion again. use the mil misc thread if you absolutely can't do without it.
Yeah, we followed your 'naming' discussion quite closely actually! Even we have been tying ourselves up in quite a few knots on that one!
At the risk of getting some brickbats thrown on me for re-opening it all over again, does any one has a good name to suggest??

Holy #$%@^... Here is BR's chance to make history and get permanently associated with the LCH!!!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Aug 2010 21:28

Hari Nair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:oh please, not a naming discussion again. use the mil misc thread if you absolutely can't do without it.
Yeah, we followed your 'naming' discussion quite closely actually! Even we have been tying ourselves up in quite a few knots on that one!
At the risk of getting some brickbats thrown on me for re-opening it all over again, does any one has a good name to suggest??

an indigenous bird of prey would be ideal wouldn't it ? How about "Shikra" ? It was one of the names that was thrown about on BRF for the LCA.

link to Shikra images

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 25 Aug 2010 21:39

Adrish, the shortened form of Adrishya(invisible) to emphasize Stealthiness
---
Military names are usually very cheesy(starfighter, spitfire, thunder etc) or common animals/birds of prey(falcon, tiger, shark, puma, panther.....) and everyone in the world has exhausted the names. In that sense, Mirage is the most profound and deep name yet suitable for a military platform and stands apart from cliched names. Hope we can come up with something like that. It's part of marketing afterall.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Aug 2010 21:56

Indranilroy, your idea is nice, but Baaz is already taken by our Mig 29s
I like Agnivarsha

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Aug 2010 22:00

@ sum
Maybe they'll name it B-Rakshak in our honour!

(Just kidding. Don't take it seriously anyone

)

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Aug 2010 22:03

self deleted : messed up the thread !

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Aug 2010 22:07

atreya wrote:Indranilroy, your idea is nice, but Baaz is already taken by our Mig 29s
I like Agnivarsha

Ya I know about the Mig-29 Baaz. All I meant is that we can go for a bigger bird of prey like the Baaz

.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Aug 2010 22:13

shardul or tiger was another of my choices, inspired by the tiger graphics but there is already an INS Shardul.

gah, forget it all, just call it aakrosh or himsa !

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 25 Aug 2010 22:15

I would go with the Brahminy kite - the powerful and elegant bird found only in India. I have tried over 30 years to photograph it, without luck.

Hari Nair wrote:The ALH MGB was not modified for the T-800. So the ALH has essentially flown with three very different engines on the same MGB – the Shakti, the TM-333 2B2 & the T-800.

I am not clear here. Is the engine gearbox, main rotor gear box and tail rotor gear box able to transfer the torque of a higher rated engine 1563 hp T800 vis-a-vis 1071 hp Ardiden 1H1, or will the torque transferred be essentially the same irrespective of the engine output?

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Aug 2010 22:22

Brahminy is great! Another Indian kite it can be named after is "Pariah"

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Aug 2010 22:24

I thought the Brahminy kite was also found in SE asia and Australia??/

what am Imissing?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Aug 2010 22:27

This bird with whirly thingy reminds one of Sudarshan chakra
(let DRDO rename that LGB to honor sassy TunTun, the only thing that kept errant paki-ish bridegrooms under control in movies)

But then since LCH is at home amongst hills and in honor of our brave biraders, Khukri too comes to mind. Has a certain stiletto look from the under side too, when flying.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 25 Aug 2010 22:41

indranilroy wrote:
Kartik wrote:
an indigenous bird of prey would be ideal wouldn't it ? How about "Shikra" ? It was one of the names that was thrown about on BRF for the LCA.

link to Shikra images
That makes 2 of us ... I posted the same views a little while ago on the Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous thread.

Can I join the club?

Deadly beauty isn't it?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 26 Aug 2010 01:36

Bah. Name it Breaper and it will strike fear in the enemy just like the hovering breapers inspire fear in the mango abduls on BR

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 26 Aug 2010 02:19

We should come up with a simple name. How about just HAL-1? Or uh....Mogambo

James B · Post by **James B** » 26 Aug 2010 04:09

Potential LCH Names

Cat Family

Lynx
Puma
Panther
Snow Leopard (as Rahul M suggested)
Liger

Bird of Prey Family

Osprey
Griffon
Aquila
Buzzard
Kite
Baza
Shikra

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 26 Aug 2010 04:59

shardul or tiger was another of my choices, inspired by the tiger graphics but there is already an INS Shardul.
gah, forget it all, just call it aakrosh or himsa !

Very subtle, Rahul Saar ...

How about "Rukh"?

~Ashish.

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Aug 2010 09:42

Tejas needs a 'Tejaswini'

Ok ok how about 'Bagha' ?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Aug 2010 09:54

Why all these fancy names?

Just call it "Rakshasa" and let it loose on the scumbags.
I hope Vedas don't come in the way. http://agniveer.com/rakshas-and-vedas/

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 26 Aug 2010 09:58

How about "Hantr"...Means the same thing in English as well as Sanskrit.