Should we discontinue EVMs?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Aug 2010 09:16

I feel this case against Mr. Hariprasad would also be a kind of test for the judiciary. I am eagerly waiting to see how this case gets handled at the various courts. BTW, when are the next round of elections?

Dileep, are'nt the "Three-tier Panchayath" (തൃതല പഞ്ചായത്ത്‌ ) elections in the socialist republic round the corner?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 26 Aug 2010 11:13

The three-tier thingie ended up in controversy, and now it is scheduled in Oct.

Ramana, Most of the points are discussed in the past pages here.

I support the EVM in comparison with the existing paper system, because I find it less vulnerable to fraud. It is easier and simpler to rig a paper based election, than an EVM.

Specifically, the paper ridicules the 'seals and stickers', while the same seals and stickers protect the paper ballot. They complain about the lax storage, but ignore the fact that the machines are randomized, making it difficult to target to one place. Basically, the paper is built on the presumption that all security measures employed by EC is crap. I don't agree with that.

But the EC, in typical babu fashion, lost the plot from the beginning, playing right into the hands of the opposition. This arrest of Mr. Prasad was the last of the himalayan blunders they committed.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 26 Aug 2010 12:51

I had seen the discussion in CNN-IBN Yesterday about this controversy..Participants were GVLN Rao, Subramaniam Swamy, Former Election Commissioner Krishnamoorthy, two babus (from EC?) - unfortunately, I could see only the last 5-10 minutes of discussion.

I don't think GVLN Rao was articulate enough to put across his point, and Swamy was simply harping on a single point (atleast during those 5-10 minutes)-i.e., that the law about electronic devices says that the device must be able to give a printed receipt.

GVLN was comparing EVM with that of an ATM - questioning whether ATM that doesn't give a receipt will be acceptable to the public or not. To this Krishmoorthy said ATM has no secrecy and Voting is done with utmost secrecy. My point : ATM also has the same secrecy to the customer as that of an EVM - it cannot and should not show the transaction details to the public, except the customer (by the printed receipt) ; Present day Indian EVMs is so secretive, even the customer (voter) doesn't know what transaction has occured! For this, a receipt instantly printed with time and symbol, and deposited in the Ballot box kept next to the EVM would do. There is no breach of secrecy in this case. GVLN failed to put across this point, probably because he was too charged up emotionally and the anchor was trying his best to howl him down.

Krishnamoorthy was arguing whether law applicable to the electronic devices would hold good for EVMs? (Because of the secrecy of voting) My take : why not? By printing and depositing a ballot box, we are only producing a proof for later verification if required.

Swamy also failed to put across his point sufficiently clearly, and kept on quoting the law, and also said Krishnamoorthy doesn't know the law despite being a former election commissioner.

Finally, the issue has surfaced and I am happy. Personally, I feel there is enough scope for foul play with the present EVMs. People who argue about the paper ballot doesn't realise that it cannot be done in a covert way as is allegedly being done with the EVMs. Secondly, with the EVMs, fraud can be more centrally organised than the paper ballot, in which case booth capturing has to arranged at..err..booth level. If the present system is so watertight, how did Hari Prasad get hold of a EVM Machine in the first place? If he could do it, anyone else with more influence can definitely do it (Past present or future)

Question which perplexed me during the last election was:

Why was the CIA station head present in AP (He came all the way from Dilli) during the crucial phases of election for both Assembly and Parliament?

munna · Post by **munna** » 26 Aug 2010 19:37

Dileep wrote:I support the EVM in comparison with the existing paper system, because I find it less vulnerable to fraud. It is easier and simpler to rig a paper based election, than an EVM.

Pardon me but the simplicity runs both ways is'nt it? Easier to cheat means easier to detect too. While a ballot rigging can be attempted at a constituency level, it can be detected too at the same level. But what about rigging EVMs the resources for which will only be at disposal of super national actors! The resources for detecting the same will also by default lie with such actors unless some intrepid researcher will risk life and liberty to blow the credibility of holier than thou machines to smithereens.

If a ballot exercise is to be rigged then one has to capture a booth or ensure that people are denied access to the polling stall/station. Dont want to do that? Fair enough one has to print duplicate ballots of select constituencies and stamp them and then somehow smuggle them into ballot boxes in atleast 3000 booths! Therefore we see that by introducing physical verifcation trail in the process it becomes so easy for 2 bit mango abduls like me (full of agenda and politics) to get all folks to cross verify any hanky panky by merely keeping a look out for logistics trail of ballot boxes and paper. In such cases mango man or woman will instantly figure out that they have been taken for a ride and then all hail and storm will follow. Pray what do I do if the EVMs are rendered Paki by some superwirelesskernelbasedchampu technology? What is the simple verification mechanism at hand to understand what is going on? Trust technical experts, EC or government. Sorry, I AM a political person WITH a political agenda and will dispute the results of election and deny them any legitimacy if my doubts are not clarified. Sort of thing that happened in Telangana.

Election process is the ultimate preserve of politics and those who seek to dismiss agendas behind the support for EVMs but are quick to hurl mud on those disputing them are only serving to reduce the legitimacy of our electoral process. Welcome to Banana republic Ver 1.0 or is it the new I-Republic Ver 3G???

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 26 Aug 2010 21:03

I think that investigative journalists and other watchdogs can help to expose ballot-stuffing fraud. But nobody can audit an allegedly closed electronic system. We should go by the standards of other developed democracies, rather than trying to justify our own clever-by-half solution. All democracies have to guard against fraud, and so I'm suspicious of any attempt by our babus to come up with some special India-onlee solution. The same laws of physics which apply to the rest of the world also apply to India.

What I want to know is - on whose orders was Hari Prasad arrested? Exactly where did the order originate from?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Aug 2010 21:44

The hearing is supposed to be on Thursday ie today. Lets see.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Aug 2010 21:48

On Thursday - The police have extended the remand.

However see the following blog
http://www.indianevm.com/blogs/?p=412

For most of you concerned about the plight of Hari Prasad, let me give you the good news. He is doing fine. On the legal front, the father-son duo of Ram Jethmalani and Mahesh Jethmalani, India’s ace criminal lawyers whom I met yesterday in Mumbai agreed to defend Hari Prasad in the case. Mahesh Jethmalani will appear in court on behalf of Hari Prasad. Both the lawyers were horrified that a technologist with good intentions of strengthening democracy was being harassed in this manner raising serious question marks about the motives. Watch out for one of the most fascinating battles for saving democracy from one of the country’s finest lawyers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Aug 2010 22:56

I hope its not based on overfeeding on hope.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 27 Aug 2010 00:12

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 438841.cms
EVM controversy takes a political turn (Look how CON media twists every thing that might threaten the dynasty power or CON party power ). They don't call it as CBN supports blah blah or CBN questions blah blah but "political turn" implying some thing sinister about CBN or any one who questions the CON mafia

The controversy over Electronic Voting Machines has taken a political turn with TDP chief Chandrabab u Naidu batting for the man who 'proved' that voting machines could be tampered with. The BJP and the Left too join the fray by demanding an all-party meeting to discuss the 'vulnerability' of the EVMs in elections, Times Now reported on Thursday.

Read more: EVM controversy takes a political turn - India - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z0xjxVIkT1

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 27 Aug 2010 00:45

Sanjay M, Muppalla and others,

Check out this blog for a record of some interesting (and pretty recent) correspondance between EC Dr.Alok Shukla and Satya Dosapati from Save Indian Democracy.

http://rajagopalan1951.blogspot.com/201 ... ation.html

Best Regards
Fred

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2010 02:51

More details from Hindustan Times.

LINK

Police seek two more in stolen EVM case
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
Email Author
Mumbai, August 27, 2010First Published: 01:04 IST(27/8/2010)
Last Updated: 01:04 IST(27/8/2010)

The police, on Thursday, told the court that they were still looking for the two activists from the state who had allegedly helped Hari Prasad steal an Electronic Voting Machine (EVM) from the Mumbai Collector’s office. After reportedly stealing the EVM, Prasad appeared on a television show to demonstrate how the machine could be tampered with. The technical coordinator of VETA (Citizens for Verifiability, Transparency and Accountability in Elections), Prasad (42), told the court that he had not stolen the machine.

The EVM was allegedly taken from the Old Customs House and a collectorate official filed a complaint. An officer from the MRA Marg police station said a government employee and an activist had helped Prasad take the EVM from the Customs House.

Prasad’s lawyer, Mahesh Jetmalani, argued that Prasad had not stolen the machine but that it had been given to him by two persons who had come asking if the machine could be tampered with. Jethmalani argued that his client (Prasad) had merely agreed to prove that but had not stolen the machine.

Accepting the police’s contention, the court remanded Prasad in police custody till Saturday.

The police had arrested Prasad from Hydrabad last Sunday and brought him to Mumbai. The police then registered a case of theft and trespass against him.

Prasad has been arrested under Section 454 of the Indian Penal Code (lurking house-trespass or house-breaking in order to commit offence punishable with imprisonment), 457 (house trespass or house-breaking by night in order to commit offence punishable with imprisonment) and 380 (theft in dwelling house), said the police.

On April 28, in a show on a private television channel in Hyderabad, Prasad demonstrated that the EVM could be tampered with. Experts from foreign countries also participated in the show. Prasad had said through tampering, voting and results could be affected and political parties could take advantage of this.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 27 Aug 2010 03:01

Now the CON party MAFIA and EC mafia want to make Hari Prasad as a part of international conspiracy to destabilize India.

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?691604
EVM Row:'Conspiracy to Discredit the Election Process'

The activist who showed that an Electronic Voting Machine can be tampered with got technical help from three foreigners, say the investigators who even suspect that the instrument might have been smuggled out of the country.

A top official said today there could be a larger "conspiracy angle" to discredit the country's election process and this was being probed thoroughly after the arrest of 42-year-old Hari Prasad in Hyderabad last Saturday in the EVM theft case. A Mumbai court meanwhile extended the police remand of Prasad by another two days till Saturday.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 27 Aug 2010 03:20

Something doesn't add up. If the EVMs are suspect, how come Opposition parties aren't asking for a transfer of power?

munna · Post by **munna** » 27 Aug 2010 03:35

vera_k wrote:Something doesn't add up. If the EVMs are suspect, how come Opposition parties aren't asking for a transfer of power?

Well there are several reasons but I can definitely recount 2:

1) The EVMs are only under a cloud of suspicion since most of the janta and political activists are completely clueless about all the tech razmatazz. Unless and until people are sure of things being actually wrong, taking a stand may become counter productive in face of a "loyal media". Imagine this, all it takes to dismiss and dispel any opposition concerns will be a pliant academic to come and announce live on TV "aaal izz well" and then hysterical anchors would take over. The epithets like "sore losers", "party in denial" and "yindoo pundamentalists" will be bandied about to further muddy the waters. The best strategy is to wait for something conclusive or to maybe master all the black magic that goes into the boxes.

2) In the 1970s certain gentleman named Balraj Madhok was one of the key leaders of Bhartiya Jansangh or BJS the precursor to BJP. He alleged during general elections that Indira Gandhi had imported special ink from Soviet Union that was normally invisible on ballot papers but would slowly become darker in one or two days. The multiple or fake stamps according to him either led to nullification of a Jan Sangh vote (on a ballot paper more than one vote leads to nullified vote) or miraculously made the vote appear for Congress (Indira). Enough said this argument was laughed out of the court by media and Mr Madhok himself suffered a huge loss of prestige and was later kicked out of the party.

Everyone is waiting for right information as there is too much muddying of waters. Hence it may be better to resort to primitive or stone age voting methods but remove any doubts anywhere. Ceasr's wife should be above suspicion and all that yada yada yada..

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Aug 2010 06:36

Ok - Another Purohit type ops from Maha police. Very smart - emergency-type situation without actually promulgating. Saamba-ho-saamba.

Intel check on EVM-thief

Is the arrested activist, who showed that an Electronic Voting Machine (EVM) can be tampered with, a mere tool in the hands of some corporate rivals who want to make a clone of the equipment which has a huge demand in countries across Africa and South America?

Or, is he, who got technical help from three foreigners, a part of some larger conspiracy to discredit India's election process?

With these sneaking suspicions in mind, the intelligence agencies -- both IB and R&AW -- have set into motion their network to check the backgrounds of Hari Prasad, who was arrested in Hyderabad in the EVM theft case last Saturday, and his foreign contacts.

Suspecting that the instrument might have been smuggled out possibly to an European country, a top official on Thursday said there could be a larger "conspiracy angle" to discredit the country's election process and this was being probed "thoroughly" after Prasad's arrest.

"There seems to be a bigger picture than what it looked like initially. We are conducting a through probe to find out who was actually behind it, why it has been done and whether there is a conspiracy to discredit India's election process," the official said.

Sources said the investigators have found that two Americans and one Dutch national had helped Prasad, technical coordinator of VeTA ( Citizens for Verifiability, Transparency and Accountability in Elections), to show how the machine can be tampered with.

The Union home ministry is constantly monitoring the development and giving regular directions to the investigators and intelligence agencies asking for all the details. Besides, the probe agencies are also trying to find out whether any domestic or foreign private corporate was indirectly involved in the theft case to make a clone as EVMs are manufactured only by two government undertakings -- Bharat Electronics Limited and Electronic Corporation of India. Both these organisations also export EVMs to a few foreign countries.

{silly - these are such a simple things and anyone can mass produce them. They are exporting them left and right and someone getting hold of them in some South American countires is not that difficult. As though they are some super non-corrupt countries}

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 27 Aug 2010 06:43

The empire strikes back with vengeance.

game on to discredit Hari Prasad.

sorry the bull shit meter from govt, EC just hit the roof.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Aug 2010 06:47

munna wrote: 2) In the 1970s certain gentleman named Balraj Madhok was one of the key leaders of Bhartiya Jansangh or BJS the precursor to BJP. He alleged during general elections that Indira Gandhi had imported special ink from Soviet Union that was normally invisible on ballot papers but would slowly become darker in one or two days. The multiple or fake stamps according to him either led to nullification of a Jan Sangh vote (on a ballot paper more than one vote leads to nullified vote) or miraculously made the vote appear for Congress (Indira). Enough said this argument was laughed out of the court by media and Mr Madhok himself suffered a huge loss of prestige and was later kicked out of the party.

Yes, appearing and disappearing inks are a concern even for EVM receipts. Better to use punched holes, maybe.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Aug 2010 07:13

Congress leader gave EVM to scientist, says lawyer - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Congr ... yer/673030

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 27 Aug 2010 20:08

For all the people who said BJP is not questioning enough:

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/ ... ustody.htm

Menaka Gandhi is asking for an all party meet.I think the Arrest of Hari Prasad might just act as an catalyst especially after the nuclear bill "INTENT" victory.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Aug 2010 06:13

This is what the US Military (DARPA) says about hardware Trojans:

“Trust cannot be added to integrated circuits after fabrication;
electrical testing and reverse engineering cannot be relied upon to detect
undesired alterations in military integrated circuits.”

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD ... ocation=U2

Thus it is not advisable to entertain hopes of detecting hardware Trojans after the chips have been fabricated.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Aug 2010 06:22

kvraghav wrote:For all the people who said BJP is not questioning enough:

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/ ... ustody.htm

Menaka Gandhi is asking for an all party meet.I think the Arrest of Hari Prasad might just act as an catalyst especially after the nuclear bill "INTENT" victory.

Menaka Gandhi is a relatively minor figure - if the BJP can stage a huge rally against inflation, bringing Delhi to a standstill, they can definitely take this issue up in a much stronger way.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 29 Aug 2010 02:04

Above is an actual EVM (DRE - Direct-recording electronic voting machine). Sequoia AVC Edge.... types which were used in US in states like Virginia.

This was after a hack from few students from U of Michigan and Princeton.

Here is news item from Aug 21 PC word:

The researchers hacked the supposedly "secure" voting machine by reformatting the memory card in the machine to boot in DOS instead of the default embedded operating system. Apparently the entire process of reformatting and writing config.sys files took only three afternoons. Not only that, but the security seals that are suppose to keep people from tampering with the machine can apparently be left completely intact after a fun afternoon of hacking. Doesn't that make you feel confident about your next election? (Next thing you know the deceased will be voting -- oh wait, that's happened before. Never mind.)

{whole operating system and program was on memory card, which one can replace (without breaking the security seal}

The reported reason that they did not hack it to steal votes was " Packman is more fun, besides others have already done the other thing"

Enjoy!

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 29 Aug 2010 06:19

Researcher held for stealing EVM gets bail

A Hyderabad-based researcher, arrested for allegedly stealing an Electronic Voting Machine (EVM), was released on bail by a holiday court Saturday. Hari Prasad, 43, had been in judicial custody after the police failed to secure his custody earlier.

Prasad, the managing director of NetIndia, has been booked under Sections 454, 457 and 380 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) for house break-in and theft.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 29 Aug 2010 06:25

Court grants bail to activist in EVM theft case

The magistrate observed that, "no offence was disclosed with Hari Prasad's arrest and even if it was assumed that EVM was stolen it appears that there was no dishonest intention on his part....he was trying to show how EVM machines can be tampered with."

The court also asked Election Commission to approve or disapprove the claim made by the accused that EVM machines could be tampered with. If he is making false claims then action could be taken against him, the magistrate said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_co ... se_1430053

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Aug 2010 06:34

Hari Prasad Gets Bail

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 29 Aug 2010 12:12

Amber G. wrote:
Above is an actual EVM (DRE - Direct-recording electronic voting machine). Sequoia AVC Edge.... types which were used in US in states like Virginia.

Yes, such voting machines and their differences from Indian EVMs have been discussed in the past pages of this thread. Frankly, its apples and oranges. And if the entire OS and data is on a SD card like a cheap chinese e-book reader, just imagine how poorly the thing has been designed.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Aug 2010 15:01

It appears that I need to offer some apologies.

So some claims made here were not as outlandish as it appeared, yes, I still hold that to do it large scale manipulation would have left a trail behind, but now that the first step is some what out, perhaps the next steps of "if they had happened" would be seen soon.

So to all those whom I did not believe when they expressed concerns about the EVM security. My apologies.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 01 Sep 2010 02:28

Hari Prasad opens Indian Election Commission's can of worms

The Indian researcher, Hari Prasad, who had blown the whistle on the Election Commission's tall claims of fool proof Electronic Voting Machines (EVM), is all set to present a paper at a conference in Chicago, on the 5th of October.

The Election Commission is trying its best to reinforce its nonpartisan image, and will seek an intervention of the court, to prevent Hari Prasad's travel abroad.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 01 Sep 2010 07:15

As per Hindi newspaper Daily Jagran both Laloo and Mulayam are opposing EVMs.
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/nationa ... 90498.html

munna · Post by **munna** » 01 Sep 2010 08:03

Laloo Prasad Yadav's RJD

2004 LS---> 21 MPs
2009 LS---> 04 MPs

Mulayam Singh Yadav

2004 LS---> 36 MPs
2009 LS---> 22 MPs

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Sep 2010 08:14

Lalloo and Mullah yadav's 'ganwar' and 'jahil' goondas cannot rig EVMs hence the takleef.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Sep 2010 20:20

Sanku,
That was sporting of you. Hope others follow suit.
Our aim should be the integrity of the Indian Election system and not dogma.

munna · Post by **munna** » 01 Sep 2010 20:43

negi wrote:Lalloo and Mullah yadav's 'ganwar' and 'jahil' goondas cannot rig EVMs hence the takleef.

Rigging of a ballot based election is just a question of booth capturing and intimidation (simple process onlee). EVMs have had no role to play in preventing that. To rig or "capture" an EVM booth is as easy as it is with ballot paper the only difference being that EVM rigging takes more time since "stuffing" cannot be resorted to. In any case this kind of physical rigging will be immediately picked up by the ubiquitous camera phones and a DDM media. The 1980-90s style of rigging is virtually impossible to pull off without a top to down collusion of machinery and also the public. Short of that its equally tough to rig a ballot box or an EVM.

1) Audio visual media's presence
2) Photo ID cards and electoral rolls

The above two are the changes that have made booth capturing/fake voting a very tough exercise certainly not EVMs that may be susceptible to "Electronic Capture"!

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 01 Sep 2010 21:26

There are some aspects of voting which is a problem with regular voting. The booth capturing is more difficult now a days whether we use EVMs or not. The more sinister thing that can happen and (I suspect happened in TN, AP and Maharashtra) is selective manipulation of key constituencies. Most of the assembly seats in AP were won by a margin of 1500-3000 votes. The key is to manipulate a couple of thousand votes here and there.

This is what one Govt. official in Vizag told me: We made sure everytime a viallager asks us to vote for Chiranjeevi/PRP, we pushed for Hand. We did not want the votes to split and TDP come to power because of the split. This is not just one case. This is a general sentiment by NGOs and Govt. officials who were on election duty. Imagine these crooks in charge of EVMs, they will let any one do anything as long as the CON party can come back to power. The only thing Govt. officials interested was to ensure the return of CON party since they don't ask them to work and can take bribes freely without fear.

If EVMs are used, we have to ensure there is a record of the vote. They have to print vote and stuff it into a seperate ballot box that can be tallied with the EVM. Why is EC, Chawla/Quereshi and CON party mafia are all so opposed to it?

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 02 Sep 2010 02:34

I have been sort of stand-offish regarding the EVMs. Back in the days when the good Mr.Mehta started the debate, I tried to follow. But the discussion soon got too technical and I gave up.

But the recent goonda raaj treatment of Sri.Hari Prasad has sent shivers down my spine. I am old enough to recall the horrors of IG's emergency /MISA antics ( my family was personally affected).

Anyways here are some data points for reading the tea leaves.

*Back in the good old days, SG enters Rashrapathi Bhavan brimming with confidence that she would be the next Kaiserinne of India. What transpired between APJ and the good lady is still open to speculation. But the rumour is that the SG and coterie have harboured a visceral hatred of APJ ever since that fateful meeting.

*When the time comes for the presidential shift INC pulls a coup against Shiv Sena by fielding a Marathi Manus naari. Shiv Sena folds and Ms.Patil waltzes in.

*Ugly rumours about Patil family's involvemet in some coop bank schemes surface but are quashed. But it is pretty evident that the prez is living at the mercy of the coterie. The charges could be raked up anytime, you see.

*Come election time, a confirmed sadist and card carrying jaalra of the family is bought in as the EC. The same gentleman who used to bake people alive under asbestos sheets during the emergency is now the head honcho at Nirvachan Sadhan.

*EC Gopalaswamy writes to the prez about the propriety of letting the said honcho continue at the top post. Surprise! The prez quashes the objection. The honcho still remains the head honcho.

*Come elections, even some of the the allies are taken aback at the number of MP seats ( for example in Tamilnadu).

Too many coincidences. The pointers all lead to a single conclusion. 2009 was fixed.

Best Regards
Fred

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 02 Sep 2010 10:41

>>>What transpired between APJ and the good lady is still open to speculation.

IIRC It was K.R. Narayanan

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 02 Sep 2010 11:09

geeth wrote:>>>What transpired between APJ and the good lady is still open to speculation.

IIRC It was K.R. Narayanan

No, APJ Kalam was the President in 2004 when Sonia was thought to be the inevitable Prime Minister. You are perhaps confusing it with the 1999 case where Sonia staked claim to the government but was unable to come up with a list of MPs as demanded by Narayanan.

Link

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 02 Sep 2010 13:26

Some traction:

Party to petition poll panel AGP wants ballots in, EVMs out
- Party to petition poll panel
A STAFF REPORTER

Guwahati, Sept. 1: The AGP is set to take a formal resolution against the use of electronic voting machines in next year’s Assembly elections.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100902/j ... 884911.jsp

Organiser editorial:

Can we trust our EVMs?

ARE the Electronic Voting Machines tamper-proof? Experts say they are not. The Election Commission however is unnecessarily sensitive and cagey about any question on EVM.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/module ... 360&page=4

Why is Congress so touchy on EVMs
Intimidation, arrests and detentions to silence critics of EVM fraud
By GVL Narasimha Rao

HERE is an "emergency like" situation presently prevailing in the country. Governmental brutal power being unleashed to silence critics of EVMs and whistle blowers.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/module ... 360&page=2

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Sep 2010 21:58

^^^
It seems like we are heading for ballots and end to EVMs though EC and government are trying desperately trying otherwise

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 02 Sep 2010 23:31

Frederic wrote:I have been sort of stand-offish regarding the EVMs. Back in the days when the good Mr.Mehta started the debate, I tried to follow. But the discussion soon got too technical and I gave up.

But the recent goonda raaj treatment of Sri.Hari Prasad has sent shivers down my spine. I am old enough to recall the horrors of IG's emergency /MISA antics ( my family was personally affected).

Anyways here are some data points for reading the tea leaves.

*Back in the good old days, SG enters Rashrapathi Bhavan brimming with confidence that she would be the next Kaiserinne of India. What transpired between APJ and the good lady is still open to speculation. But the rumour is that the SG and coterie have harboured a visceral hatred of APJ ever since that fateful meeting.

*When the time comes for the presidential shift INC pulls a coup against Shiv Sena by fielding a Marathi Manus naari. Shiv Sena folds and Ms.Patil waltzes in.

*Ugly rumours about Patil family's involvemet in some coop bank schemes surface but are quashed. But it is pretty evident that the prez is living at the mercy of the coterie. The charges could be raked up anytime, you see.

*Come election time, a confirmed sadist and card carrying jaalra of the family is bought in as the EC. The same gentleman who used to bake people alive under asbestos sheets during the emergency is now the head honcho at Nirvachan Sadhan.

*EC Gopalaswamy writes to the prez about the propriety of letting the said honcho continue at the top post. Surprise! The prez quashes the objection. The honcho still remains the head honcho.

*Come elections, even some of the the allies are taken aback at the number of MP seats ( for example in Tamilnadu).

Too many coincidences. The pointers all lead to a single conclusion. 2009 was fixed.

Best Regards
Fred

Thank you so much. Agree with every point. The CON ITALIAN MAFIA with the help of anti-national forces led by NDTV, CNN/IBN and socres of colluding media members destroyed institution by institution: President, CEC, Supreme Court, CBI.

Unless there is a violent and severe fight by all parties including Left, BJP, Maya, Laloo and Mulyam, CON MAFIA will not let EVMs go away. The people had no clue that the democracy was being subverted subtly in some places and blatantly in other places with the help of CEC, EVMs and President.

This fight is just begining. The CON MAFIA with the help of anti-national media forces will make this a fight between Communalism vs. Secularism, Rich vs. Poor etc. This is how they retained their power. How will they give it up? BJP bozos have no clue what was going on behind their backs. I don't think they still have any clue.