Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 2010

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2010 07:40

CalvinH wrote:
Only a resounding defeat can crash this image. The higher one rises the harder is the fall.

No. The system is immune to defeat. Failures in 1965, 1971 and Kargil did not take the sheen off the army.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 27 Aug 2010 07:47

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The government’s estimates of the damage are equally grim. More than 5,000 miles of roads and railways have been washed away, along with some 7,000 schools and more than 400 health facilities.

Just to build about 500 miles of road in war-ravaged Afghanistan, the United States spent $500 million and several years, according to the Web site of the United States Agency for International Development.

And the agency has spent $200 million to rebuild just 56 schools, 19 health facilities and other services since the momentous earthquake in the Pakistani-controlled portion of Kashmir in 2005

One estimate, in a joint study from Ball State University and the University of Tennessee, put the total cost of the flood damage at $7.1 billion. That is nearly a fifth of Pakistan’s budget, and it exceeds the total cost of last year’s five-year aid package to Pakistan passed by Congress.

What the waters have not destroyed, rescue workers have been forced to, in some cases. In the southern provinces, Pakistani government workers pointed out places where they had to blow up roads, embankments and even the railway line to steer the flow of water away from the larger towns.

Great chunks of the famed Karakoram Highway — a celebrated feat of high-altitude engineering built by the Chinese over two decades — have disappeared as cliffs fell away in the torrent. The route, which winds hundreds of miles from the Chinese border in the Himalayas to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, may now be impassable for years, officials said.

The lack of electricity, especially through the infernally hot summer months, is a constant problem for the government and a reason for repeated strikes and public protests throughout Pakistan, even in ordinary times. The damage to the electricity and power sector alone could run to $125 million, according to a government report shown to The New York Times.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Aug 2010 07:50

From Indus water thread

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is time for even bolder initiatives in the Indus River Valley

http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... ver_valley

President Obama is planning a trip to India in the fall. Top American diplomats are engaged in both countries constantly at the moment. The U.N. and other international agencies are deeply engaged due to the current flood crisis. Perhaps the time is right to propose a massive, multilateral Indus River Valley Development Initiative. Perhaps such an initiative could provide an area of common interest to promote a constructive dialogue between India and Pakistan (after all, notes Solomon, agreements such as the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty do exist even if they have been somewhat strained by time and circumstance). Perhaps with a redouble initiative and ingenuity a consortium of nations can fashion a program via which the United States, other major powers, and multilateral organizations can marshal the massive resources such an initiative would take. The effort could and should cover modernization of flood control infrastructure and capabilities, irrigation systems, and the efficient, smart production of the region's under-tapped but mismanaged hydro-power resources. It could provide technical assistance, education programs to train those who will be needed to manage the resources at the local, regional and national levels and it would also provide jobs in a region where the absence of jobs creates human kindling for extremism and border tensions. It might also include other elements like sharing the kind of satellite imagery and resources that are essential to understanding and managing long-term water issues and thus anticipating and defusing future tensions where possible.

David Rothkopf used to write pro-India columns (except when he wrote about the nuclear deal). Now he is virtually advocating US intervention. Also he is very close to the current administration.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Aug 2010 07:50

See this article.

The guy carefully treads around the Elephant-e-Room, which is the outright pouring of American tax dollars into the coffers of the Al Qaida (aka Pak Army/ISI) to wage war on the world, including American kids. Instead all he sees is the Headley example, which is nothing more than shiv's "Jo Lahore mein gaandoo woh Amreeka mein bhi gaandoo" thesis in action.

Because the overwhelming U.S. concern understandably has been with terrorism within the United States and above all terrorist acts -- like 9/11 -- perpetrated within the United States by foreigners, terrorism by U.S. citizens has been a jarring note that has not fit into most of the tunes Americans have been playing about fighting terrorism -- many of which, having to do with such things as no-fly lists for international flights, have focused specifically on keeping foreign terrorists out of the United States. Especially ill-fitting have been several cases over the last couple of years involving Americans traveling abroad to commit terrorism in other countries such as Pakistan and India, including terrorism against non-American targets. A noteworthy example is the surveillance that Pakistani-American David Headley performed in support of the gruesome attack by Lashkar-e-Taiba in Mumbai in November 2008, which killed at least 160 people.

The U.S. export of terrorism calls into question the high -- perhaps sometimes impossibly high -- standard to which Washington holds other governments in controlling what emanates from their territories. U.S. officials might not say "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists" anymore, but it still is considered not enough for governments to refrain from sponsoring or supporting terrorism. They are expected to do whatever it takes to prevent their citizens from committing terrorist acts abroad, with little American patience for excuses about how difficult it is to control borders or the activities of private individuals. To the extent this is the U.S. standard, the United States itself has failed it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 07:54

arnab wrote:
Great chunks of the famed Karakoram Highway — a celebrated feat of high-altitude engineering built by the Chinese over two decades — have disappeared as cliffs fell away in the torrent. The route, which winds hundreds of miles from the Chinese border in the Himalayas to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, may now be impassable for years, officials said.

Satellite image confirmation of this would be most welcome. Probably the above is one of the best outcomes of the floods as far as strategic outcomes are concerned.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Aug 2010 07:56

The government’s estimates of the damage are equally grim. More than 5,000 miles of roads and railways have been washed away...

Great chunks of the famed Karakoram Highway — a celebrated feat of high-altitude engineering built by the Chinese over two decades — have disappeared as cliffs fell away in the torrent. The route, which winds hundreds of miles from the Chinese border in the Himalayas to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, may now be impassable for years, officials said.

Good riddance to the KKH.

Did the highway and railway at RYK also get washed away?

Wow, this saved sooo much in missiles, bums, fuel, machines and men that it would have cost to do the same "reconstruction" of TSP and degrade the logistics and mobility of the TSPA enough to enable the birth of 5 FTSP nations. Probably many bridges are down too, without needing LGBs. The Indus has done what it would have taken 6 months of an Operation Desert Storm to do.

For Baluchis, Balwaris and Pakhtoons, NOW is the best time that they can hope to have, to break free.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Aug 2010 07:57

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is time for even bolder initiatives in the Indus River Valley

Perhaps with a redouble initiative and ingenuity a consortium of nations can fashion a program via which the United States, other major powers, and multilateral organizations can marshal the massive resources such an initiative would take.

We have to be careful here. The US can do anything within Pakistan. We will not be able to influence them beyond a point. But, hands off from India or IWT.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2010 07:57

arnab wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The Pakistan Navy officer tells the reporter Carlotta Gall

“You have to highlight that the infrastructure all the way from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa to Sindh is ruined,” Commander Zahid said, referring to Pakistan’s northernmost and southernmost provinces. “It will take years to rebuild.”

Laying the groundwork for a beggathon, the Pakhaki tells the reporter what to say

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2010 07:59

enqyoob wrote: Good riddance to the KKH.

Don't believe it. It's probably a lie. I bet they have not even surveyed the area. The only people who will know are the Intel agencies of the US/West, India, Russia and China from satellite photos

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 08:00

arnab wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The Pakistan Navy officer tells the reporter Carlotta Gall
“You have to highlight that the infrastructure all the way from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa to Sindh is ruined,” Commander Zahid said, referring to Pakistan’s northernmost and southernmost provinces. “It will take years to rebuild.”

Why is he complaining, now that the Navy can operate from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa to Sindh, at least on a seasonal basis? Imagine! Pakistani destroyers spotted approaching Amritsar.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Aug 2010 08:01

arnab wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world ... ml?_r=1&hp
Great chunks of the famed Karakoram Highway — a celebrated feat of high-altitude engineering built by the Chinese over two decades — have disappeared as cliffs fell away in the torrent. The route, which winds hundreds of miles from the Chinese border in the Himalayas to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, may now be impassable for years, officials said.

If that was true, then that should also wash away the hopes of an Iran-Pakistan-China gas pipeline as well as a railway line to Gwadar from China.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Aug 2010 08:01

This is serious. Now they will have to train Fedayeen to inflate themselves, sitting in inflated boats instead of white Toyota pickups. Hope they have kept the RDX dry.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Aug 2010 08:02

Assad Durrani gloats that some website said ISI is best intelligence agency in the world.

The interesting thing is that our Ex-DG ISI has titled his column "Invisible Soldiers of Islam" http://tribune.com.pk/story/43154/the-i ... -of-islam/

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Aug 2010 08:03

The only people who will know are the Intel agencies of the US/West, India, Russia and China from satellite photos

Wonder if the 70,000 bullet shoot-up-a-thon and the "shoot-at-sight orders" in the Northern Areas was entirely accidental.

The report about Balochis stopping vehicles and shooting all Pakjabis is also highly encouraging.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Aug 2010 08:04

SSridhar wrote: We have to be careful here. The US can do anything within Pakistan. We will not be able to influence them beyond a point. But, hands off from India or IWT.

The guy who wrote the article worked for Bill Clinton's administration. I think he is close to Hillary's State dept. This could be a warning shot for us.

Hillary is relatively pro-India. I think the bureaucracy in State dept (and Obama's natural instinct) is fighting back.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 08:05

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_3
Motorma Majhabeen Islam asks for a thought revolution in Pakistan.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Aug 2010 08:06

regarding KKH, here is another pointer but again it is Paki mouths and we never know

http://tribune.com.pk/story/42342/there ... it-gilani/

When asked if his government will construct an alternative road to link Gilgit-Baltistan (G-B) because a blockage in the Karakoram Highway (KKH) would lead to starvation in the area, the prime minister said: “We will see how we can expedite work on the Basbusar-Kaghan road to make it an alternative road for G-B.”

Landslides triggered by torrential rains had blocked the KKH on July 26, cutting off G-B with other parts that created a food crisis in the region.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 08:06

abhishek_sharma wrote:
SSridhar wrote: We have to be careful here. The US can do anything within Pakistan. We will not be able to influence them beyond a point. But, hands off from India or IWT.
The guy who wrote the article worked for Bill Clinton's administration. I think he is close to Hillary's State dept. This could be a warning shot for us.

Hillary is relatively pro-India. I think the bureaucracy in State dept (and Obama's natural instinct) is fighting back.

They didn't mention J&K, did they? They did say something about undeveloped hydro-potential - which would be mostly in J&K? Does that mean India gets to build more dams and more storage?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Aug 2010 08:10

Anujan wrote:Assad Durrani gloats that some website said ISI is best intelligence agency in the world.

Asad Durrani appears in some Indian TV channels in panel discussions and he is always introduced as a moderate voice from Pakistan. Whenever the anchor says that, I detect a smirk on his face.

He would of course characterize the ISI as the best. He disbursed money to oust PPP from power. He used drug money to sustain terrorism against India. In a panel discussion in the Indus TV, he rejected the idea that the ISI's jihadi strategy in J&K had failed and said those who did not agree with Pakistan’s jihadi policy on Kashmir ‘could lump it’. His exploits are fine indeed.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 27 Aug 2010 08:15

thought revolution

Is it Halal?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2010 08:16

Regarding KKH
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 010_pg7_27
4 Aug

General Nadeem said that the Karakoram Highway has been damaged at four points and it might take another six weeks to restore road links with Gilgit-Baltistan.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... tion-hh-14
9 Aug

Four major bridges in Gilgit-Baltistan on the Karakoram Highway have been completely damaged while reports about damages to main roads and bridges in Azad Kashmir have just started to come in.

An 4 Aug forum post by a Packee
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/t ... ID=1943146

There was a government report that there were three bridges out around Naran. There is so much devastation and so many priorities that I do not think that anyone can predict when everything will reopen. The GT road will be the first priority and then the KKH before the Kaghan valley. The entire road from Bahrain to Kalam in Swat is destroyed (65 km) . Kohistan was hit particularly bad, Chilas was had the electrical station damaged by flood waters. The area on the KKH from Dassu to Besham, particularly around Pattan has always been subjected to lots of slides during the monsoon, closing the KKH for a time virtually every year. Luckily most of Hunza was not hit too badly. If you are on a bike, you will be able to traverse most of the slides, but a missing bridge will be more of a problem.... In September 2002 or 2003, a massive rainstorm throughout most of Pakistan killed 6000 people. I left Hunza as the rain started and it rained continuously for the 17 hour drive to Peshawar. By the next day the KKH was blocked in 250 places between Aliabad in Hunza to Gilgit and was closed for 6 weeks. This time there is the large contingent of Chinese road workers which will help a lot. Information will be a lot clearer in ten days to two weeks, provided there is no more heavy rains.

And another

during the last 14 years of traveling on KKH, I've seen numerous closures on that highway but just a few days, there are skilled engineers in FWO, heavy machinery, so as soon as the sun is up, they will do their best to get rid of that.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 27 Aug 2010 08:18

tp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_3
Motorma Majhabeen Islam asks for a thought revolution in Pakistan.

I scrolled through other articles on this page, when i discovered this porki bile.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_2

COMMENT: India bearing gifts —Zafar Hilaly
The writer is a former ambassador.

.........The amount that Manmohan Singh offered Pakistan’s 20 million displaced was $ 5 million, widely regarded as negligible, actually a pittance, considering it was the worst flood in living memory anywhere in the world............More so when they learnt how well the Indian economy is performing.

.........“We knew that a bania will always remain a bania, but now a Sikh has become a bania.” Another wrote, “Remember we will owe India nothing, not even sympathy in death.”

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Aug 2010 08:18

A_Gupta wrote: They didn't mention J&K, did they? They did say something about undeveloped hydro-potential - which would be mostly in J&K? Does that mean India gets to build more dams and more storage?

He wrote:

It might also include other elements like sharing the kind of satellite imagery and resources that are essential to understanding and managing long-term water issues and thus anticipating and defusing future tensions where possible.

This suggests that when Paakis think they don't have enough water, they could cry Jeehaad, and the US should intervene to "defuse tension" by persuading India to release water.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 08:22

Sorry, was this posted already?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opini ... rison.html

China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands
By SELIG S. HARRISON
Published: August 26, 2010

While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 27 Aug 2010 08:28

I've always asked this; the ISI can certainly claim to be effective as (a) domestic secret police (b) covert action arm, but as an *intelligence* agency?! Intelligence is a matter of recruiting sources with high level access, and producing timely, insightful assessments. From most Pakistani accounts they have never excelled at this their original and most basic brief.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2010 08:29

Sadler wrote: COMMENT: India bearing gifts —Zafar Hilaly
The writer is a former ambassador.

I sent him some cartoons from BRF

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Aug 2010 08:31

abhishek_sharma wrote:
It might also include other elements like sharing the kind of satellite imagery and resources that are essential to understanding and managing long-term water issues and thus anticipating and defusing future tensions where possible.

That's the crucial part. More than what the Pakis think, the US would use every trick to involve itself more and more in India affairs. They have decided that Afghanistan-Pakistan-India must be treated as one entity and only because of Indian protests did they delink India from the Af-Pak terminology. The approach remains the same though.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 27 Aug 2010 08:37

Sadler wrote: COMMENT: India bearing gifts —Zafar Hilaly
The writer is a former ambassador.

.........“We knew that a bania will always remain a bania, but now a Sikh has become a bania.” Another wrote, “Remember we will owe India nothing, not even sympathy in death.”

Interesting how Hilaly couches his own thoughts as quotes from unknown 'others'. Unfortunately he does not have the wit or the class to respond to M J Akbar's brilliant write up, hence regresses to the typical paki psyche which one finds under their thin veneer of sophistication (remember Sohail Tanveer).

This is what M J Akbar had written:

Dr Manmohan Singh’s response to this gratuitous insult was a testament to his faith: he offered more. The best answer to visceral animosity is surely a civilized handshake, even if one may have to count one’s fingers after the hand has been shaken.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 27 Aug 2010 08:40

arnab wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

One estimate, in a joint study from Ball State University and the University of Tennessee, put the total cost of the flood damage at $7.1 billion. That is nearly a fifth of Pakistan’s budget, and it exceeds the total cost of last year’s five-year aid package to Pakistan passed by Congress.

That would be more than enough to convince die-hard atheist about the existence of god. Unkil arms Pakbaric animals to live to fight another day against India and keep us in check, and Allah takes it away...AOA

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Aug 2010 08:58

The satellite imagery will indeed be useful. Mushy indicated some time back that TSP, which chinni help, built a series of tunnels and bunkers to protect strategic assets. So there are a few signs to look for; diversion of waters, even though large populations may suffer, to protect strategic assets, the movement of large cargo by C-130, road, or rail, and finally perhaps taking these assets out of the tunnels, and covering with camo, until the water is pumped out. I hope the powers that be are working overtime on imagery intel.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2010 09:01

read the many letters that follow this.

Illuminating, to say the least.

But cockroaches they will remain!!

http://tribune.com.pk/story/42158/pakis ... ckroaches/

Pakistan’s human cockroaches

Friday, 27 Aug 2010

The writer is a columnist, and TV and radio anchor [email protected]

Pakistan, you are a failed state. Not because of Zardari. Not because of America. But because you are a failed people, all of us undeserving of sympathy. We are diseased, rotten to every brain stem, world please make an impenetrable fence around us, keep us all in so we don’t spread it to other people, other countries.

These were words I posted on a social networking website. I have an unusually negative mindset these days. It happened after I saw the video of the two teenage brothers brutally clubbed to death by a crowd frenzied with blood thirst in Sialkot. The police watched gleefully. The video has blurs at certain parts, but even this sensible sensitivity does not prevent one from seeing mists of blood flaying from the heads of these teens as they are hit relentlessly, and remorselessly, again and again.

The murderous crowd was truly representative of the richness of Pakistan. Some wear jeans, others shalwar kameez, some were bearded, others clean shaven. The Pakistanis had gotten together to have some fun.

Do not be shocked. This wasn’t isolated, it’s just that the crowd wanted to make sure their orgasmic moment could be captured for later viewing, at one’s pleasure. We blame our ill-educated brethren for the barbarity we witness, but that’s a self-serving lie.

The middle and upper classes are immune to education it seems. They hold opinions of everyday violence even if they have never raised their hand at anyone. If you believe Jews are the scum of the earth, all Ahmadis deserve to die or that Hindus are inferior, well why not two teenage boys?

I want Pakistanis to feel shame, in fact a substantial loss of self-esteem would be great. This is the only way for us to begin to doubt ourselves and the incessant excuses we make. Yes, the world is right to add restrictions on our visas, to see us as dangerous. If for even a while we felt we were the cockroaches of the human race, maybe we would get to the point we stopped the lies we tell ourselves and let this continue.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 27 Aug 2010 09:13

A_Gupta wrote:Satellite image confirmation of this would be most welcome. Probably the above is one of the best outcomes of the floods as far as strategic outcomes are concerned.

arent parts of KKH already damaged by the Artifical lake at Hunza. Hope pakis are not trying to cover the damage from that disaster in the current floods?

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 27 Aug 2010 09:19

despite the flood reaching parts of sindh and widening its reach the estimate is constant at 1/5 of pakistan under water since more then a week. Interestingly the number of affected are being quoted around 20 Million which is 1/9 of the overall population.

Bulk of Punjab is intact and will prosper with the aid as most of the government and army is composed of punjabis. The flood with strengthen the Punjabs hold on TSP.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Aug 2010 09:20

But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

11K PLA folks sitting in PoK??

Must must from the 2nd artllery helping the Pakis repaint some M-9s or M-11s to make up for a few lost during the floods!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Aug 2010 09:26

Poak Evolution
OK, MMS has decided to send shipload of Aid via Wagha and he himself will be sailing in front of the ship to meet Zardari and other amphibious Poaks at Waterworld Poakland in Lahore.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010 ... eshow.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Aug 2010 09:32

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opini ... .html?_r=1
China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands
( India must issue statement that its a disputed territory and it reserve the right to intervene any time to free it from occupation)

Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence. What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement. Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 27 Aug 2010 09:36

Angelina's donation for floods surpasses Zardari's help http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100825/87 ... rpa_1.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Aug 2010 09:40

http://www.brecorder.com/latestindex.ph ... t_id=13213
IMF exploring 'all options' to help Pakistan

WASHINGTON (updated on: August 26, 2010, 21:22 PST): The IMF said Thursday it was exploring all avenues to help flood-battered Pakistan as the country sought to ease terms of a nearly 11-billion-dollar loan.
"We're looking at all options in terms of how we can assist Pakistan in the midst of this tragedy," said International Monetary Fund spokesman Gerry Rice, raising also the possibility of an emergency loan to help Islamabad cope with the disaster."We are already supporting the Pakistani economy via a stand-by arrangement, and there is also the possibility of providing financing through an emergency response to natural disasters, that has been used in the past for countries facing the consequences of these events."These discussions are ongoing, they're very active," Rice said

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 27 Aug 2010 09:44

The latest (yesterday, Aug 25) from Prof. Mead:
Pakistan is Sinking: Time For Tough Love?

The news from Pakistan remains dire...They have cruelly exposed many of Pakistan’s glaring weaknesses: its corrupt feudal elite, its corrupt and ineffective bureaucracy, its lack of infrastructure, its weak civil society, and the presence (unsurprising given the decades long failures of the country’s public and private institutions to do their job) of radical religious extremism and terrorism emerging from the rage and despair of a people betrayed by its leaders.

The long term outlook is not good. Pakistan has failed yet again to educate a rising generation of children and the population is rising faster than the country can find jobs.

Beset by so many problems from so many different sources, Pakistanis struggle to make sense of their country and the world. Conspiracy theories are rife; the raucous and rambunctious media (especially the Urdu media) is better at expressing anger than analysis...
...
...
Pakistanis are very good at explaining how all this is America’s fault; unfortunately they aren’t very good at breaking the cycle of state failure.
...
The question many Americans have is a natural one at this point. Pakistan is going to hell in a hand basket. Should America care — and if we do care, is there anything useful that we can actually do?
...
Additionally, the India-Pakistan conflict cannot be ignored given its impact on wider US interests in the Middle East and Asia — and the Pakistani establishment is very good at brinkmanship, manufacturing crisis as a way of forcing US attention and aid.
...
I have heard some American thinkers express, quietly and privately, the view that maybe we should do what many Pakistanis already fear we are doing: fully and frankly turn to India as a substitute for Pakistan as our regional partner in central Asia including Afghanistan. India, say these thinkers, is more sincerely attached to the chief US goal of preventing this part of the world serving as a terrorist base and Pakistan is in any case a hopeless basket case. Many Afghans hate and distrust the Pakistanis — widely blamed for supporting the Taliban and generally suspected of interfering and seeking to dominate. Working around Pakistan by engaging with India, China and Russia (and, hopefully, ultimately Iran) in the region is a better long term strategic choice.

I don’t think we are ready to work around and even work against Pakistan... Pakistan may not have a lot of ability to make our world a better place, but it has a significant party pooping power that we need to respect. Nuclear program, terror links, geopolitically sensitive location: it’s a bad mix, but it’s real.

For all these reasons we need to care about Pakistan’s success — but we should not let the Pakistanis think they have a blank check. Whatever the consequences, we cannot underwrite Pakistan’s failure forever. Continuing Pakistani weakness and progressive state failure could change the American calculation — and Pakistanis need to know that. Indeed, part of any serious plan for helping Pakistan involves getting the Pakistani establishment, civil and military, to understand just how much trouble they are in and how urgently the country needs change. Americans shouldn’t threaten and browbeat Pakistan, but Pakistanis do need to understand that failure has to stop sometime, and that if Pakistan won’t or can’t move decisively to improve its situation, even its best friends can’t help it.

Realistically, Americans cannot care more about Pakistan than Pakistanis do. If Pakistanis are hellbent on seeing the country go downhill, we can’t stop the slide. If the military elite is committed to a doomed strategy against India that progressively impoverishes the country and distorts its development, we can argue the case with them, but we cannot force them to change their minds — and we cannot spare them the consequences of the inevitable failure. If the country’s educated classes are more interested in looting the state, exploiting the poor and maintaining the stranglehold of rural elites than in developing the country and building its future, we cannot change their minds — and we cannot protect them from the domestic and international consequences of their suicidal choice.

Emotionally, many Pakistanis will be enraged by this line of thinking, pointing out (with some justice) that past and current US policy in the region has greatly complicated Pakistan’s life.

Most US thinkers continue to believe, correctly in my view, that America’s vital interests are best served by the emergence of a stable, prosperous and secure Pakistan...But the United States must avoid getting trapped in a dysfunctional and enabling relationship with Pakistan’s elites. If a strategically myopic military and a rent-addicted economic elite are truly determined to lock the country into its current destructive and unsustainable course, the US will have to consider alternative ways to safeguard its regional interests.

Going forward, the United States will have to find ways to make clear that Pakistanis will determine the future course of our relations. We should work seriously and contribute generously towards a far-reaching program of national renewal and change; we should not lift a finger for a failing status quo.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Aug 2010 09:46

It isn't over yet
http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=1 ... =&supDate=

Ten days back, a major flood surge of 55,000 cusecs passed by from Head Sulemanki on Sutlej and the flood-warning centre warned a few days back of yet another flood onrush, of a similar magnitude at Head Sulemanki. So far Sutlej and Ravi have had a moderate flow, but with heavy rainfall in the catchment areas of these rivers both are likely to be flooded. The two once mighty rivers had been tamed as a result of major reservoirs built by India after the Indus Water Treaty in 1960. Much would depend on the quantity of water India decides to release from these reservoirs.
On Tuesday information minister Kaira told media that India had yet to inform Pakistan it was releasing the additional water. It is understood that the reservoirs built to store water from the two rivers are already full to their capacity. A news item meanwhile tells that Indian side has officially warned that extra water from Bhakra dam might be released in the next twenty-four hours. There are already reports of Sutlej water overflowing the banks and flooding the riverine areas near Basirpur in Kasur district. The districts in Punjab which would face the wrath of the Sutlej River include Vehari, Kasur and Okara which had so far been left unaffected and Bahawalpur. Water level is also rising in Ravi and the river which is presently in low flood has inundated a few villages on its way. The Lahore City District Government has already issued two flood warnings to residents of various localities, some of them constructed on the riverbed.
One expects India to promptly release the statistics regarding water being released from its dams. Time is of basic importance. What is further required is alertness on the part of Pakistani authorities. As the flow in the two rivers had become insignificant after the construction of dams on the Indian side, scores of thousands of people had built houses on the riverbeds. Similarly, numerous small factories had sprung up in the area. During the recent floods the largest number of human casualties and loss of property occurred in areas like these which had come into existence on the Indus and its tributaries