Indian Space Program Discussion

Thomas Kolarek · Post by **Thomas Kolarek** » 13 Aug 2010 21:00

Kailash wrote: IRNSS by 2014

Does this mean India's dependence on US GPS will end ? so we will be able to navigate Brahmos using our IRNSS ?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 Aug 2010 21:07

Does someone have an update on the Gagan GPS ground system that was supposed to be commissioned already.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 14 Aug 2010 08:33

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Hmmm, Russia isn't really racing with China, and it is debatable whether India is 'racing' either, though India doesn't want to fall far behind China or any country.

A bit of Brit psy-ops, indirectly belittling India's programme by playing up the Russian link to Chandrayaan-2. It would be more accurate to say that India is taking assistance from Russia on the rover.

Well, to be fair, Russia is supplying the lander, because India has zero experience in designing a vehicle to make a soft landing on the lunar surface. The Soviets were the last ones to actually land something on the Moon, with their 1976 sample return mission.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 14 Aug 2010 08:49

^^ They are also the ones to crash a whole bunch of landing crafts on Mars.

Even the British did so with their Beagle on Mars.

Apparently the science of landing crafts in one piece has not been perfected.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 14 Aug 2010 09:11

Sanjay M,

India's space program helps in reduction of poverty. It is absurd to use poverty as an excuse to terminate space program. Very absurd!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 14 Aug 2010 22:43

Neshant,
Soviets had better success with Venus, as compared to NASA's accomplishments wrt Mars. The Soviet Venera probes were the only ones to take photographs directly from the surface of Venus.
http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_DigitalImages.htm
http://www.strykfoto.org/venera.htm

Karan,
Nobody is saying that India should abandon its space efforts due to poverty. We should however not make light of the poverty situation in the country, or brush it off.

Meanwhile, a pair of Indian students are proud discoverers of a new asteroid:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 311029.cms

Amanjot Singh and Sahil Wadhwa, both Class 12 students of Ryan International School, discovered a main belt asteroid (2010 PO24) on Aug 6 as part of the All India Asteroid Search Campaign (AIASC).

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 18 Aug 2010 06:35

An article on Britain's resurgent space program mentions that they may pursue ties with ISRO:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1680/1

What options, then, does the current coalition government have? David Cameron’s recent trip to India, accompanied by many government and industry representatives, involved promoting BAe and Rolls-Royce defense equipment. The Science Minister reportedly briefly engaged with ISRO.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 18 Aug 2010 07:56

Sanjay,

Engaging in space exploration does not equal to brushing off poverty. It simply is an effort to make the lives of poor people better. It seems like there are some people in white countries who do not feel comfortable with the idea of a space faring SDRE country. If that is the case then it is their problem and it is shameful that they are using poor people to further their agenda. History has proven time and time again that these people (jealous TFTAs) do not give a hoot about poor people anywhere.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 18 Aug 2010 08:26

I am NOT saying that pursuit of space exploration amounts to brushing off poverty.

I am saying that in our zeal to defend our pursuit of space exploration, we should not stoop to arguments which brush off poverty.

Anyway, here's an idea which I x-posted to the Technologies for Indian Problems thread:

Rocket Thrusters Used to Treat Sewage

I think this is something that ISRO should try out, as part of adapting space technologies to improve things on the ground for ordinary Indians. Besides, if widespread use were to lead to evolutionary improvements in the technology, these could then find their way back to ISRO's space applications.

Remember, the more a technology interfaces with the mass market, the more rapidly it evolves. Think of personal computers, cellphones, automobiles, etc. The same could happen if a mass-market use were found for rocket engines. Rocket engine designs could advance more quickly.

More:

http://green.blorge.com/2010/08/at-stan ... t-science/

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... eat-sewage

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 18 Aug 2010 22:58

Vikram Sarabhai: Rockets, atomic power & Bharatnatyam

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 19 Aug 2010 00:00

^^

We've found water on the moon and have more remote sensing satellites in space than any other country. But without Vikram Sarabhai, the man who founded ISRO, none of it would have been possible. On his birthday, here's a brief look at what he achieved.

The highlighted part is in the same genre of statements like 30% of NASA workforce are Indians etc and is a patently false statement to make. Forget about IT we are no superpower even by number of remote sensing satellites in orbit. Just look at all the space junk in orbit and count who owns most of them. We are a far 4th or 5th in the pecking order.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 20 Aug 2010 10:38

^^^ with regards to Indians having no toilets and other psyops being BSed. We should note that that Black Americans did not have civil rights when America entered the space race or send a man to the space.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 25 Aug 2010 22:24

Space expo begins in India's tech hub

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 430997.cms

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Aug 2010 00:03

ISRO flooded with enquiries for building student satellites

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 27 Aug 2010 05:49

was not sure where to post this but the space section seemed appropriate enough...

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =ASI&s=AIR

NEW DELHI - Indian scientists are developing laser-based anti-ballistic missile systems called Directed Energy Weapons (DEWs).

Developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), DEW weapons can kill incoming ballistic missiles by bombarding them with subatomic particles or electromagnetic waves. The weapons could intercept missiles soon after they were launched toward India.
Related Topics

* Asia & Pacific Rim
* Air Warfare

A DRDO scientist said laser-based weapons have been tested. One of these weapons is the air defense dazzler, which can engage enemy aircraft and helicopters at a range of 10 kilometers. This weapon will be ready for induction in two years.

India's laser weapons can be deployed in the Navy's submarines and destroyers, and Air Force fighters and transport planes.

The DEW laser weapon is capable of producing 25-kilowatt pulses that can destroy a ballistic missile within seven kilometers, the scientist said.

In addition, Indian scientists are testing the Prithvi homemade anti-ballistic missile system, which can kill ballistic missiles at a height of up to 80 kilometers. The first-phase Prithvi is likely to be inducted by 2013, said the DRDO scientist.

Scientists are working on developing second-phase Prithvis capable of killing incoming intercontinental ballistic missiles.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2010 08:17

Anyway,

now we can put in better perspective why this came out last year

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Report ... le-Defense

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Aug 2010 08:55

India's laser weapons can be deployed in the Navy's submarines and destroyers,

Is this an answer to Chinese AShBM ?

Further, it was also reported that ASAT could also carry laser weapon.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 30 Aug 2010 17:13

Payloads for Chandrayaan-2 finalised
http://www.indiablooms.com/EnvironmentD ... 00810a.php

Chandrayaan–2 will have an orbiter (satellite), a lander and a rover.

Chandrayaan-2 is planned to be launched onboard Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota. While the lander will be provided by Russia, the orbiter and the rover are being built by ISRO.

The payloads to be flown onboard Chandrayaan–2 (orbiter and rover) have been finalised by a National committee of experts drawn from ISRO centres, academic institutions and R & D laboratories and Chaired by U R Rao, Chairman, Advisory Committee on Space Sciences (ADCOS) and former Chairman of ISRO.

The committee, after detailed deliberations and considering the mission requirements, weight and power available for scientific payloads, has recommended five payloads to be flown on the orbiter of which three are new and two are improved versions of the payloads flown earlier on Chandrayaan–1 orbiter.

The committee has also recommended two scientific payloads on the rover of Chandrayaan – 2. Inclusion of additional payloads, if possible within the mission constraints, will be considered at a later date following a detailed review.

The five recommended payloads of Chandrayaan-2 orbiter are as follows:

Large Area Soft X-ray Spectrometer (CLASS) from ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC), Bangalore and Solar X-ray Monitor (XSM) from Physical Research Laboratory (PRL), Ahmedabad for mapping the major elements present on the lunar surface.
L and S band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) from Space Applications Centre (SAC), Ahmedabad for probing the first few tens of meters of the lunar surface for the presence of different constituents including water ice. SAR is expected to provide further evidence confirming the presence of water ice below the shadowed regions of the moon.

Imaging IR Spectrometer (IIRS) from SAC, Ahmedabad for the mapping of lunar surface over a wide wavelength range for the study of minerals, water molecules and hydroxyl present.

Neutral Mass Spectrometer (ChACE–2) from Space Physics Laboratory (SPL), Thiruvananthapuram to carry out a detailed study of the lunar exosphere.

Terrain Mapping Camera–2 (TMC–2) from SAC, Ahmedabad for preparing a three-dimensional map essential for studying the lunar mineralogy and geology.

The two scientific payloads on Chandrayaan-2 rover are:

Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) from Laboratory for Electro Optic Systems (LEOS), Bangalore

Alpha Particle Induced X –ray Spectroscope (APIXS) from PRL, Ahmedabad.
Both the instruments are expected to carry out elemental analysis of the lunar surface near the landing site.

Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft weighs about 2,650 kg at lift-off of which the orbiter weight is about 1,400 kg and lander weight is about 1,250 kg. Development of the subsystems of the orbiter and the rover is in progress at ISRO centres in Bangalore, Thiruvananthapuram and Ahmedabad.

No Foreign Payloads,this time ??

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 30 Aug 2010 21:54

dinesha wrote: No Foreign Payloads,this time ??

On the orbiter, 10 kg out of the available 50 kg space for scientific payloads is reserved for foreign payloads. The ones announced now are the Indian payloads.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Aug 2010 00:00

India confirms payloads for Chandrayaan-2 lunar mission

India has finalized the list of payloads for its Chandrayaan-2 Lunar Mission, the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) said on Monday.

The ISRO and the Russian Federal Space Agency signed in November 2007 an agreement to work together on the Chandrayaan-2 project.

The remote-sensing satellite's main goal is to provide further evidence to confirm the presence of ice below the shadowed regions of the Moon's surface and probe the planet's chemical composition.

The second Indian mission to the moon will have an orbital flight vehicle constituting an Orbital Craft (OC) and a Lunar Craft (LC) that can carry a soft landing system up to Lunar Transfer Trajectory (LTT).

The spacecraft will weigh 1.4 tons and have five payloads attached to it.

The spacecraft will be equipped with Large Area Soft X-ray Spectrometer (CLASS) and Solar X-ray Monitor (XSM) for mapping the major elements present on the lunar surface, and a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) for probing the lunar surface for water and ice.

The payloads will also include an Imaging IR Spectrometer (IIRS) for mapping the lunar surface over a wide range to study minerals, water molecules and hydroxyl.

A Neutral Mass Spectrometer (ChAC-2) for carrying out detailed studies of the lunar exosphere and a Terrain Mapping Camera-2 (TMC-2) for preparing a three-dimensional map of the planet's surface will also be attached to the spacecraft.

Chandrayaan-2 will also have an orbiter (satellite), a lander and a rover for collecting and analyzing samples of lunar soil and sending the data back to Earth. Russia is responsible for the design and construction of the three pieces of equipment.

The successful launch of the Chandrayaan-1 on board the Indian-built PSLV-C11 rocket in October 2008 made India the third Asian country to send an unmanned probe to the Earth's largest satellite after Japan and China.

The ISRO chief said that 95 percent of the scientific objectives of the Chandrayaan-1 mission had already been achieved, despite the failure of several instruments.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 01 Sep 2010 02:00

Russia To Test Chandrayaan-2 Lander Next Year

Next year, Russian space agency Roscomos plans to test the lander that will be part of India’s second Moon mission, Chandrayaan-2, Roscosmos Deputy Head Anatoly Shilov says.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 02 Sep 2010 17:23

ISRO to attempt key test for new generation rocket on Sep 8
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 480181.cms

After a failed test six months ago, ISRO is making a fresh attempt on Wednesday to conduct long-duration static test of a crucial liquid core stage for a new generation heavy rocket which is being developed.

"The static test of crucial liquid core stage (L110) of GSLV Mk III launch vehicle (rocket) for 200 seconds is slated for 3 pm on September eight," a senior Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) official told here.

A top ISRO team, including Director of ISRO's Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC) S Ramakrishnan and Director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) P S Veeraraghavan, held a review meeting in Mahendragiri in Tamil Nadu yesterday and gave the go-ahead for the test.
Chairman of Bangalore-headquartered ISRO, K Radhakrishnan, is expected to witness the test at LPSC test facility in Mahendragiri, officials said.

ISRO conducted the test for 150 seconds at LPSC test facility on March five. While the test was originally targeted for 200 seconds it was stopped at 150 seconds since a deviation in one of the parameters -- minor leakage in the command system -- was observed.

A small leak in the command line was detected by computer, which automatically aborted the test. About 500 important parameters were monitored during the static test. ISRO has since analysed the data.
GSLV Mk III rocket is being developed for launching four-tonne class of satellites in Geo-synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO). Measuring 17 metres in length and four metres in diameter, L110 is an earth storable liquid propellant stage with propellant loading of 110 tonnes.

L110 stage uses two high-pressure Vikas engines in a clustered configuration and draws its heritage from the second stage of PSLV and GSLV and strapons of GSLV.

While in PSLV and GSLV, the liquid stage with single engine configuration burns for 150 seconds, the GSLV-Mk III requires burning for 200 seconds in a twin engine configuration.

India's PSLV and GSLV so far used one Vikas engine. But the heavy-rocket GSLV Mk III under development needs much better thrust. And hence, two Vikas engines were being used for the first time, they said.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 02 Sep 2010 18:14

The media could have worded their article a little differently. The test of the liquid engine was not a failure totally. After all, it lasted 150 seconds and 500 parameters were observed. Perhaps 'snag' or 'deviation' or 'leakage' could have been used. But 'failure'?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 02 Sep 2010 18:50

dinesha wrote:ISRO to attempt key test for new generation rocket on Sep 8

A small leak in the command line was detected by computer, which automatically aborted the test. About 500 important parameters were monitored during the static test. ISRO has since analysed the data.
GSLV Mk III rocket is being developed for launching four-tonne class of satellites in Geo-synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO). Measuring 17 metres in length and four metres in diameter, L110 is an earth storable liquid propellant stage with propellant loading of 110 tonnes.

Since when does a command line leak?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 03 Sep 2010 09:36

Neela wrote:
dinesha wrote:ISRO to attempt key test for new generation rocket on Sep 8

A small leak in the command line was detected by computer, which automatically aborted the test. About 500 important parameters were monitored during the static test. ISRO has since analysed the data.
GSLV Mk III rocket is being developed for launching four-tonne class of satellites in Geo-synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO). Measuring 17 metres in length and four metres in diameter, L110 is an earth storable liquid propellant stage with propellant loading of 110 tonnes.

Since when does a command line leak?

Ever since DDM started reporting on technology matters.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2010 10:21

INS-GLONASS has signed a contract with an Indian company HBL Power Systems

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Sep 2010 08:10

merlin wrote:
Neela wrote: Since when does a command line leak?
Ever since DDM started reporting on technology matters.

I asked the same question here, and people tittered. I'd like to know - is a command line some kind of pneumatic/hydraulic pressurized line, that triggers something else? I'm just wondering why electromechanical actuators aren't used instead, since obviously electricity is easier to prevent from leaking than a physically pressurized hose.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Sep 2010 08:14

Vee Vaant Ishro!

Plan panel wants ISRO to monitor Naxal areas’ growth

Why exactly are they trying to pull in ISRO for insurgency containment???

Doesn't the Army have its own satellites, drones, etc?

I strongly disagree with trying to drag a civilian agency like ISRO into anything security-related. Their job is to launch satellites, and not to involve themselves in using them for security surveillance. Getting them involved in anything security-oriented will only expose them to smear tactics.

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 04 Sep 2010 08:32

Neela wrote:
dinesha wrote:ISRO to attempt key test for new generation rocket on Sep 8

A small leak in the command line was detected by computer, which automatically aborted the test. About 500 important parameters were monitored during the static test. ISRO has since analysed the data.
GSLV Mk III rocket is being developed for launching four-tonne class of satellites in Geo-synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO). Measuring 17 metres in length and four metres in diameter, L110 is an earth storable liquid propellant stage with propellant loading of 110 tonnes.

Since when does a command line leak?

This shows people's limitation in mechanical knowledge. Command line need not always be digital command line that transfer electrical signals. It can be pneumatic lines that uses fluid pressure to operate valves which inturn acts as command lines. Remember automatic transmissions in cars, there gear shift is done through transmission fluid depending on the engine speed and road speed.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Sep 2010 08:33

^^^ Sanjay M bhai,

Kindly don't get taken in by govt assertions. My hope is this is just a GOI ploy to get the enemy to think the security agencies have no space based intell gathering capability of their own.

/I know, am being too chankian by half but then, a guy has a right to dream, doesn't he?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Sep 2010 08:42

^^ sivabala, the thing is that in other systems like ground vehicles, airplanes, etc, nobody uses pneumatic/hydraulic command lines. All commands are sent by electric wire only. This is because electric wires are much more reliable than hydraulic/pneumatic lines. Valves can be electrically triggered and actuated, and need not be mechanically triggered. Hydraulic/pneumatic lines are prone to leakage.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Sep 2010 08:54

2 Sep, 2010, 12.17PM IST,IANS
India to build world's largest solar telescope

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 04 Sep 2010 10:01

Sanjay M wrote:^^ sivabala, the thing is that in other systems like ground vehicles, airplanes, etc, nobody uses pneumatic/hydraulic command lines. All commands are sent by electric wire only. This is because electric wires are much more reliable than hydraulic/pneumatic lines. Valves can be electrically triggered and actuated, and need not be mechanically triggered. Hydraulic/pneumatic lines are prone to leakage.

Hi Sanjay, if you have not read my post clearly I mentioned "need not", i.e. command line may also be pneumatic controlled. And, we are not talking about advantage of digital command line over pneumatic command line system, rather applicability of the words "command line leak" in the context.
If you are not aware, most aircrafts currently flying still have mechanical backup over fly-by-wire systems.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 06 Sep 2010 19:21

Boeing offers Isro tech help for 2016 manned space trip

The Indian Space Research Organisation has an offer too tempting to resist: Boeing has said it is ready to collaborate and offer technological know-how to Isro for its human space flight programme, scheduled tentatively for 2016. This will include construction of a crew vehicle to the International Space Station (ISS), journey to the station and re-entry into earth's atmosphere, which is the most crucial aspect of the programme.

Dr Vivek Lall, vice-president and India country head, Boeing Defense, Space and Security told TOI: "Boeing has initiated discussions with Isro to offer our support to India's human space flight programme. With our legacy in space exploration design, development and integration, we believe we can provide value-added assistance to India's national programme." Lall added: "We plan to submit a formal request to the US Department of State to enable us to proceed down this path should our services be accepted."

The senior Boeing official pointed out that Nasa had offered a Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) contract to Boeing with Bigelow Aerospace as a key team mate to initiate the design and development architecture of commercial transport to and from ISS. "This programme opens the door for collaboration between Boeing and Isro in areas of commercial crew transportation." Boeing has offered collaboration in four specific areas, one of them in which Isro has already begun work

Hmmmm

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 06 Sep 2010 20:12

sivabala wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:^^ sivabala, the thing is that in other systems like ground vehicles, airplanes, etc, nobody uses pneumatic/hydraulic command lines. All commands are sent by electric wire only. This is because electric wires are much more reliable than hydraulic/pneumatic lines. Valves can be electrically triggered and actuated, and need not be mechanically triggered. Hydraulic/pneumatic lines are prone to leakage.
Hi Sanjay, if you have not read my post clearly I mentioned "need not", i.e. command line may also be pneumatic controlled. And, we are not talking about advantage of digital command line over pneumatic command line system, rather applicability of the words "command line leak" in the context.
If you are not aware, most aircrafts currently flying still have mechanical backup over fly-by-wire systems.

Sivabala ,
Going back to the report, it said that the command line leak was detected by the computer. I still think the line is very vague.
Shouldn't it be more specific so as to let people know what exactly transpired instead of a fuzzy statement.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 06 Sep 2010 20:36

shukla wrote:Boeing offers Isro tech help for 2016 manned space trip

Another way of saying that "Hey! We need funds for CST-100. Let the Indians pay them and we'll rip them off nicely"

I don't think ISRO is that foolish to accept the offer.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 06 Sep 2010 20:58

KrishG wrote:
shukla wrote:Boeing offers Isro tech help for 2016 manned space trip
Another way of saying that "Hey! We need funds for CST-100. Let the Indians pay them and we'll rip them off nicely"

I don't think ISRO is that foolish to accept the offer.

Boeing's dangling a carrot... Boeing offer does not necessarily equate to US state dept clearance (as we saw with LCA consultancy.. US state dept shot down LM & Boeing and eventually ended up in EADS's lap).

Let us not forget that ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) and ISRO Inertial Systems Unit (IISU), which are based in Thiruvananthapuram, and the Space Applications Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad, still figure on US entity list.

All offers come with a "subject to approval" clauses. They shouldn't be allowed to make offers unless they are cleared by state dept.. grrrrr

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 07 Sep 2010 01:23

If we take Boeing's help then what is the point of having an indigenous space program when we use their technology for this so called national objective ?

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 08 Sep 2010 15:18

ISRO tests new generation rocket

After a failed test six months ago, ISRO will make a static test of crucial liquid core stage (L110) of GSLV Mk III launch vehicle (rocket) for 200 seconds, a senior Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) official said.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 08 Sep 2010 15:31

Samay wrote:If we take Boeing's help then what is the point of having an indigenous space program when we use their technology for this so called national objective ?

Help should not be bought in the name of consultancy. They need cheap transport to the ISS, let them teach us for free and we would take their men and material at a cheaper rate than what is possible by a US built space craft.