J & K news and discussion

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 30 Aug 2010 07:28

^^^ But Bdutt does not drive NDTV and content. There are other people driving it - namely P Roy and a host of investors etc.
Bdutt may have a personal slant but it would not be allowed to blatantly reveal itself without the buy-in of all the other stakeholders. Just like Pakistan, Bdutt is both actor and proxy.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Aug 2010 08:02

Jarita, please see my reply here regarding the media. It is OT here.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Aug 2010 15:38

Venkarl wrote:looks like NDTV etc are forcibly framing an opinion in an aam aadmi's brains that J&K will go tomorrow if not today....so no surprises please........a perfect stage is being set nicely for the secession....

A big question I have here is what sort of viewership does NDTV have? And how much of those people have a say in Indian politics? My impression was that channels like NDTV caters to a miniscule in India's population who can understand English, with not much interest in Indian politics (dont go and vote), and are more of the "oh.. they dont have bread, let them have cakes instead" type of opinion makers. I could be wrong here.

I feel things would become more dangerous that vernacular media across the nation comes up with this "opinion framing" gimmick in unison.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 Aug 2010 15:56

I still believe that solution to J&K problem is a 2 step process.

1. Divide the state into 3-4 small states. There is nothing and I repeat absolutely nothing common between the denizens of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh except for all the pieces were once ruled by the same King. It is time to divide the state and let each component find its own destiny under the Indian Constitution. What is so sacrosanct about J&K that it can not be broken into logical pieces if former Punjab or Madras Presidency or Bombay Presidency can be.

2. Show the people of the state who the big daddy is. Enough of molly-coddling. If someone wants violence, then bring on the power of the state. let everyone and his uncle know that GoI can bring unprecedented violence and misery to retain the unity of the country.
One just can not continue having its Biryani and eat it too. If you want Biryani, sit in the kitchen and sweat it out like rest of us do.
Why should there be a special drive to get Jobs to KM's when all they want is free lunch and that too while they are sitting at home.

Sachin: I have stopped watching English News channels on Cable. They are not worth wasting my money on. I would rather watch Doordarshan.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Aug 2010 16:17

Sachin wrote: A big question I have here is what sort of viewership does NDTV have? And how much of those people have a say in Indian politics? My impression was that channels like NDTV caters to a miniscule in India's population who can understand English, with not much interest in Indian politics (dont go and vote),

In certain pockets, this population is large (and they vote too); in certain other cases, they act as a influencing agency to many others (the views of PSU employees and families on divestment had a major opinion building effect on others)

Thirdly the "decision makers" tune into channels such as these.

So while it would be indeed more dangerous if the infection was seen in Indian language media, even currently its ill effects should not be under-estimated.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 30 Aug 2010 16:23

I had posted this earlier in the old Psy-Ops and Media thread ...
Viewership numbers for English news channels ...
The view from the couch

In the news genre, Hindi channels lead the pack, followed by regional news channels. English news channels, despite their star power, trail with a miniscule 0.4 per cent viewership. While crime and politics are most popular segments for all news channels, Hindi channels tilt towards entertainment and astrology. Being one of the most hotly contested segments on television, Hindi news has seen a visible decline in its content offerings and focus over the past few years.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 30 Aug 2010 16:31

^^^ Any so called 'secular' news channel etc. are just one tool in the toolbox of those(to put it politely) who have no love lost for India.Tracing their roots would lead one to the same place where all threats to India originate from.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 30 Aug 2010 16:53

Don't EJ establishments & churches have stake in our ELM?

pankaj · Post by **pankaj** » 30 Aug 2010 17:17

sum wrote:
Did anyone see the "We the people" 15 minutes back ( 8 PM IST)?

3 Years back a colleague of mine participated in such discussion /opinion on J&K by NDTV .

He described it scripted event , where 90% of the public is not allowed to voice their opinion . The Anchor manipulates the outcome by giving mike to people voicing similar thoughts .Those voicing their opinion forcefully were edited out of the final version .

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 30 Aug 2010 17:41

^^^ Very true all these things are so brazen and in your face nowadays and still everybody ignores it with a wink and nudge.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Aug 2010 18:05

The key to Kashmir Valley lies in demographic solutions. If you cannot be ruthless about it then forget it. Carefully provoke and arrange for outrages committed by the separatists. Arm the civilians indirectly, and let them bring it on out into the streets. Use that to finish off the male fighting population. Resettle the Valley with those dispossessed previously.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 30 Aug 2010 18:19

brihaspati wrote:The key to Kashmir Valley lies in demographic solutions. If you cannot be ruthless about it then forget it. Carefully provoke and arrange for outrages committed by the separatists. Arm the civilians indirectly, and let them bring it on out into the streets. Use that to finish off the male fighting population. Resettle the Valley with those dispossessed previously.

Or get ready for Balkanization of India within ten years.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2010 18:38

brihaspati wrote:The key to Kashmir Valley lies in demographic solutions. If you cannot be ruthless about it then forget it. Carefully provoke and arrange for outrages committed by the separatists. Arm the civilians indirectly, and let them bring it on out into the streets. Use that to finish off the male fighting population. Resettle the Valley with those dispossessed previously.

Sadly, that seems to be the only answer since if the voices of 99% of the KMs( valley based onlee) are anything to go by, they have ceased to be Indian and have gone beyond point of return.

We( GoI) have fiddled all these years hoping that the KMs would see sense and integrate themselves but it is a pipe dream ( if recent events and KMs speaking everywhere in the print and visual media is anything to go by).

The only thing is that Pak going down the tube means that KMs have given up on merger with Poak but want Aazadi so that they are no longer under evil Kaffir rule and go about their Shariat way...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Aug 2010 19:23

or they could all be bussed to Azaad-Chin across the LOC. If Azaadi is what they want it is easy enough to provide for them.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Aug 2010 20:15

It can perhaps be said that that 99% of KM do not want to go along with the separatists' agenda. they are the supposed silent majority. However, because the silent majority remain "silent" we never really know or can be sure what they really think - or they are plain opportunists, who are waiting to see which side wins and then join that side without meanwhile taking the risk of getting halaaled.

This could equally apply to those who remained non-chalant during the Partition. However that is OT and I mentioned it because someone may decided to do an equal-equal.

The real problem for statecraft is that we cannot rely on the "silent majority" to prevent things in action that should not be happening. Which means, even if we assume that the silent majority has a golden heart - they still may simply sit and watch while a determined minority ruthlessly takes over the region, the society, and the future of the entire neighbourhood.

My proposal may sound horrible, but mere politics is not going to solve this. I remember with a great deal of pain the general sense of opinion streaming from many quarters that after all we have somehow managed to contain the "separatists" and that the KM has joined the mainstream Indian political process - after 20 years or more of security services sacrifice. I don't know how long such delusions will continue.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Aug 2010 20:24

There is no political solution possible in Kashmir (the valley). It is a small area of land of J&K and it can be burned down and rebuilt with little consequence to the rest of the state. The stance that GoI has to take is no different than it would for any other place in India when addressing lawlessness. All this talk of autonomy and political solution by even the likes of Abdullah family is hard to comprehend for the aam Indian. There is nothing special about Kashmiris or their Kashmiriyat. They just need more danda up their rear.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Aug 2010 21:28

Bsir ji,
Wall street calls it PE ratio for evaluation purpose . Let it be known as Provoke and Eliminate.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 30 Aug 2010 21:44

Sachin wrote:
Venkarl wrote:looks like NDTV etc are forcibly framing an opinion in an aam aadmi's brains that J&K will go tomorrow if not today....so no surprises please........a perfect stage is being set nicely for the secession....
A big question I have here is what sort of viewership does NDTV have? And how much of those people have a say in Indian politics? My impression was that channels like NDTV caters to a miniscule in India's population who can understand English, with not much interest in Indian politics (dont go and vote), and are more of the "oh.. they dont have bread, let them have cakes instead" type of opinion makers. I could be wrong here.

I feel things would become more dangerous that vernacular media across the nation comes up with this "opinion framing" gimmick in unison.

If we can safely assume that business elite, political elite and urban youth (btw rural youngsters aspiring an IT & ITES job in city do watch english channels) watch these english news channels....there is a chance of vested message reaching the intended targets.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Aug 2010 21:48

The blueprint is simple enough to bring normalcy in Kashmir. It has been done before in Punjab and the same ruthlessness needs to be applied here too. It needs an able executioner within the GoI babu-dom with full political blessings.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 30 Aug 2010 22:27

Bade wrote:.... There is nothing special about Kashmiris or their Kashmiriyat. They just need more danda up their rear.

saar I don't know who first termed this "kashmiriyat" word first but it surely got strengthened by media groups in recent years. It clearly appears to me that Indian news channels are the main source of their strength on our side while we have 2+ Govts on the other side of the border fueling their strength. The source of strength on our side of border has to be cut down.

People in Indian administered J&K are given more freedom than the rest like G,B,POK and Aksai Chin which are strictly a no-coverage zone by media folks. Heck a brasilian couple were allowed to voice that they get irritated when security forces ask them for ID....imagine the kind of freedom they have. Can they or localites of G,B,POK and AC get the same level of freedom? they'd be dead..forget the ID. Giving freedom is not wrong but allowing the misuse of that freedom is not OK. GoI is allowing that by not regulating Media of what to and what not to cover in the Valley. Publishing of Pictures and relaying news footages of violence and rallies of dead youth in the valley is the main cause of recent violence there.These news coverages were indirectly raking up the matters by relaying it repeatedly.

If GoI wants to solve this problem to some extent...in the national interest..a journalist's freedom have to be regulated in the valley...if thats not being followed...impose a total ban of media in the valley. Then what VikasRaina ji and Brihaspati ji have recommended in their earlier posts can be implemented partially if not fully.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Aug 2010 22:38

Currently GoI is using a soft punch approach as has been the case as far as I can remember. Contain the flares and talk about political solutions till the next election cycle. NC and PDP family inheritors want to keep the status quo to milk the situation and they are the stumbling bloc, as they keep sending a mixed message to suit their needs alone. The only political solution is to remove them from the picture and deal with the hardliners the way they would never have dreamed of, with the full power of the state. Slash and burn is the only way left, when the poison does not go away on its own.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Aug 2010 22:48

brihaspati wrote:The key to Kashmir Valley lies in demographic solutions. If you cannot be ruthless about it then forget it. Carefully provoke and arrange for outrages committed by the separatists. Arm the civilians indirectly, and let them bring it on out into the streets. Use that to finish off the male fighting population. Resettle the Valley with those dispossessed previously.

As the amrekis did to the Red Indians,

as the newzealanders did to the Maoris,

as the australians did to the Aborigines.

and many others...

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 30 Aug 2010 22:52

^Chetak Ji all the examples that you quote are of invaders and here we S.D.R.E's are just trying to hold part of the land that belonged to Rishi Kashyap.

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 31 Aug 2010 11:11

Ya or as Kashmiri Muslims did to Kashmiri Pandits.

People so easily and conveniently forget and forgive. Those Jihadis killed and miamed a minority and then ask for fundamental rights

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 31 Aug 2010 11:42

^^ No sir Disagree. KP's escaped while not one radical K.M should escape. Instead of giving examples we should get the job (of arranging Radical KM's to meet their 72's) done.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Aug 2010 16:35

Venkarl wrote:Giving freedom is not wrong but allowing the misuse of that freedom is not OK. GoI is allowing that by not regulating Media of what to and what not to cover in the Valley.

That's a fair point. Normal laws do not operate in abnormal situations.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 31 Aug 2010 18:41

Foreign correspondents and cameramen are quite freely allowed in J&K. Iranian Press TV ran a story today with video on how the government was not doing anything to "punish" security forces and how the "killings" of innocent Kashmiris were going on. They showed the stone throwers and jsutified their action as people's anger at security forces not being punished. it was done by on-spot crew of Press TV and not a secret cam feed.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 31 Aug 2010 18:51

The solution for containing KMs is the same solution everybody uses everywhere else - carrots and sticks.

On the one hand try to control demonstrations through peaceful means onlee, like using Millimeter-Wave based Active Denial Systems, Discomfort-Causing Sound Weaponry, Bhut Jolokia-based Aerosol Sprays, Tear-Gas, Lathis, etc. Of course, there are other means to subvert protests.

On the other hand, keep on killing all those KMs who have been bought over by Pakistan and/or have turned Jihadi. Put the fear of State in their hearts. They need not be using guns against India for them to become a target. It suffices, that they are instigating people to go on the streets, or playing to the human-rights crowd gallery, or preaching hate towards Indians and Hindus. All are valid targets.

I also feel, that anybody which has taken up arms against the Indian State should lose his house. The house should be open for Neelami or be given to some Indian soldier, who has shown exceptional bravery or KMs, who have shown their loyalty to India, or some Gujjars from somewhere else in J&K. Anybody in the neighborhood who acts hostile to the new occupants can also be shown the door.

All this can be easily done, say if some other party, some Gujjar files a complaint that he has been thrown out by the KM out of his house and some land records seem to confirm his stand.

There are many poor people in J&K also who would certainly be happy about a new roof over their heads. If need be whole neighborhoods can be exchanged with people more loyal, the Gujjars, the Shias, etc.

Lots of Band-Baja of Democracy, Freedom of Press, Employment Generation, etc. to go along.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 01 Sep 2010 00:29

it appears that the Ikhwan are being re-activated in Kashmir

http://j.mp/bzThmP

Better monitoring & control over their activities needed this time around - good move. From whatever I'd read, they did manage to terrorize the terrorists & their sympathizers - benefits of localization

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 01 Sep 2010 00:43

^ Finally a faint far away feeble light.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 01 Sep 2010 01:30

9 terrorists meet their 72

Indian Army has foiled a major infiltration bid near line-of-control (LoC) in India-controlled Kashmir by killing nine ~~militants~~ terrorists in a gunfight, Indian defense officials said Tuesday.

expect to see more of them.

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Sep 2010 09:09

Panic has gripped this North Kashmir district as people smell revival of the dreaded Ikhwan (pro-government gunmen), as the government has reportedly approached some former members of the group to recruit youth to quell the ongoing agitation.

Love the sentence used!!!

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Sep 2010 09:10

Any further news on the encounter where we lost a 6 PARA NCO?

Manmeet · Post by **Manmeet** » 01 Sep 2010 12:17

Recruitment of Ikhwan should happen on priority basis. They should never be disbanded at the first place.
The most effective place for them to operate at given time will be Baramula and Anantnag district.
Let AKs roam in valley freely. Want gun culture so be it.
Special operations group and Ikhwans have always been the back bone of anti militancy drive and must not wear out. That is a must

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 01 Sep 2010 12:46

sum wrote:Any further news on the encounter where we lost a 6 PARA NCO?

Dont know if we are talking of the same encounter, but satp has this to add:

Defence sources said heavy exchange of fire between the militants and Army was continuing till reports last came in as six more militnats were believed to be trapped in the cordon laid by the troops.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 01 Sep 2010 13:03

Geelani admits he is behind stone pelters

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Sep 2010 13:40

Nihat wrote:Geelani admits he is behind stone pelters

Reminds me of a scene in Mission Impossible II, where Ethan Hunt (India

) pulls a mask on the face of Hugh Stamp (Geelani) and pushes him in front of Ambrose (stone pelters). Ambrose thinking Hugh is Ethan shoots him, only to find later on Hugh's mouth was banded and he was wearing a mask!

Happy Ending.

The Security Forces should use him as a Shield!

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 01 Sep 2010 14:14

looks like TOIlet is anti-kashmiriyat

In the article, Geelani is actually warning GoI..protests will be intensified etc...and the caption says he admits for blah blah!!!!

R Vaidya · Post by **R Vaidya** » 01 Sep 2010 18:44

http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/report_ ... ll_1431123

Kashmir Valley’s problems are not economic in nature at all
Published: Tuesday, Aug 31, 2010, 2:18 IST
By R Vaidyanathan | Place: Mumbai | Agency: DNA

It is fashionable for bleeding heart liberals (BHL) to offer unsubstantiated arguments on behalf of the militants of Kashmir Valley. Lumpen liberals like that one book wonder Arundhati Roy (who proudly proclaimed in the US two years ago that she had seceded from India since India was not a democracy) need not bother us here. But when other BHLs talk about hurt aspirations of the people of Kashmir, we need to sit back and wonder what is happening.
Why are Kashmiris hurt? According to the BHLs, the first reason is that polls were often rigged in J&K (not just in K). This argument is specious because in that case the first candidate to secede from India should be Bihar where polls have been rigged from time immemorial. Or Bengal, for that matter. Jyoti Basu could not have lost his Baranagar seat but for rigging by Siddhartha Shankar Ray’s Juba Congress boys. Now, in every poll, the CPM repays that compliment.
The Dalits of western UP can tell horror stories of rigging by Jats till the arrival of AN Seshan and the BSP in that order. But none of these states want to secede from India. The stone-throwers of Kashmir should realise that even though some polls may have been rigged, our general elections are different from those in Pakistan where the generals get always “elected”.
The second grievance is the socio-economic condition of Kashmiris. The government of India has recently constituted yet another committee to suggest ways to improve the state’s economy and employment. However, J&K is near the top in almost all economic parameters. Consider:
The per capita net state domestic product at factor cost (at 1999-2000 prices) was Rs17,590 for J&K in 2007-08, which is higher than that of the Bimaru states (Bihar, UP, MP, etc). It also figures in the top quarter of Indian states (CSO figures). The state received more money from the Centre than anyone else.
In 2008-09, out of a total revenue of Rs19,362 crore, more than 70% came as grant from the Centre. All the Central assistance came as grant, and not loan (state budget documents & RBI), unlike other states.
On the other hand, the urban property tax generated by the state in 2008-2009 was — hold your breath — a measly Rs1 lakh (state budget documents). Despite such poor tax collections, the state is not at the bottom in terms of development indicators.
Among the 1.6 million households in the state, 37% are covered by banking services, 65% have radios or transistors and 41 % possess TV sets — one of the highest in the country. Per capita consumption of electricity, at 759 kwh (2006-2007), is much higher than in UP, MP, Rajasthan, Bihar and West Bengal (Rajya Sabha Question No 2908, April 21, 2008). Some 81% of households get electricity (rural 75 % and urban 98%) and only 15% are dependent on kerosene. This level of electricity usage is highest among states.
Kashmir’s per capita availability of milk (2005-2006), at 353gm per day, is much higher than most of the states with an all-India average of 241gm a day. The per capita spending on health (at Rs363) is much higher than most states, with Tamil Nadu at Rs170, Andhra at Rs146, UP at Rs83 and West Bengal at Rs206 and a national average of Rs167.
The percentage of children under age three who are undernourished on Anthropometric Indices (stunted, wasted or underweight) is lower for J&K than many other states: 28 for stunted (too short for age), 15 for wasted (too thin for height) and 29.4 for underweight (too thin for age) against the national averages of 38, 19 and 46 respectively.
It goes on. Any socio-economic indicator one looks at one finds that the state is in the top quartile or among the top 10 percentile. If Jammu feels neglected, it could only be because the people there don’t know how to blackmail the country. They are foolish enough to carry the national flag in their agitations!
The Valley is imitating Pakistan on two counts. Pakistan begs globally by threatening to self-destruct even while the elites of Pakistan send their children to study abroad and the poor Abduls and Kasabs are made to die for the cause. The same hypocrisy is practiced in the Valley by its leaders.
The stone-throwing youngsters shouting azadi on the streets of Kashmir should ask themselves whether they would like to be a part of India that is democratic and becoming a world power or want to be ruled by the ISI of Pakistan. If it is the later, the road to Muzzafarabad can be opened for those willing to leave their land of honey and milk! As far as India is concerned, it should hold an all-India referendum about the timing to scrap Article 370. That is the only referendum we should think of.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Sep 2010 18:48

Boss you've killed it here

fanbloodytastic

>>the first candidate to secede from India should be Bihar where polls have been rigged from time immemorial.