Indian Interests

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Prem
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

kittoo wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Youtube of MP Navjot Sidhu's speech in parliament on the denial of Hertage site status to Amritsar
Awesome speech, passionately made, flawlessly delivered. Couldn't help but brim with happiness and applause several times duirng the speech.Just 6 minutes long sirs, worth watching though!
Amazing speech. Absolutely blown away. The end gave me goosebumps. Thank you for posting this great vid, Hari sir.
Is not amazing that some Babu or Secular politcians can deny the Heritage status to Amritsar while Nehru/ Gandhi name is attached to every nook and corner. Is this another case of DIE phenomenon of GOI working ?
I think similar forces insulted the Chess Champion Anand asking him to prove his citizenship and kept objecting on his bonafide.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Sorry if OT here. Couldn't find a better thread.
abhishek_sharma wrote:What I learned from Jared Diamond

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/201 ... ed_diamond
First, he argues that sometimes societies fail to anticipate an emerging problem because they lack adequate knowledge or prior experience with the phenomenon at hand. ...

Second, societies may fail to detect a growing problem if their leaders are too far removed from the source of the trouble. Diamond refers to this as the problem of "distant managers,"...

Third, serious problems may go undetected when a long-term negative trend is masked by large short-term fluctuations. Climate change is the classic illustration here: ...

A fourth source of foolish decisions is the well-known tendency for individuals to act in ways that in their own selfish interest but not in the interest of the society as a whole. The "tragedy of the commons" ...

Fifth, even when a state or society recognizes that it is in trouble, Diamond identifies a number of pathologies that make it harder for them to adapt and survive. Political divisions ...

...

To sum up (in Diamond's words):

Human societies and smaller groups make disastrous decisions for a whole sequence of reasons: failure to anticipate a problem, failure to perceive it once it has arisen, failure to attempt to solve it after it has been perceived, and failure to succeed in attempts to solve it."

That last point is worth highlighting too. Even when states do figure out that they're in trouble and get serious about trying to address the problem, they may still fail because a ready and affordable fix is not available. Given their remarkably fortunate history, Americans tend to think that any problem can be fixed if we just try hard enough. That was never true in the past and it isn't true today, and the real challenge remains learning how to distinguish between those situations where extra effort is likely to pay off and those where cutting one's losses makes a lot more sense.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Thanks abhishekcc. We see quite a few symptoms in present day India. In a democracy there is self-correction process (eg. elections to throw the rascals out- like 1977 elections to throw out the INC) which removes the errors. However dynastic politics masks those errors due to sychophancy.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by JE Menon »

>>sychophancy

Yup. Major problem. I would go so far as to call it psychofancy..
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

X posted from the geopolitical thread

The world must be India specific

Nice read regarding the attitudes of the Indian power elites when it comes to dealing with dealing with the ROW. Especially the Alphabet soup treaties.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ShauryaT »

Unrealised potential: India's 'soft power' ambition in Asia by John Lee Centre for Independent Studies
This paper examines the concept of ‘soft power’ as it applies to India. It makes the argument that India’s enormous ‘soft power’ potential in Asia is based not on the growing popularity of Bollywood movies and Indian cuisine but on the fact that a rising India (unlike China) complements rather than challenges the preferred strategic, cultural and normative regional order.

However, the paper also argues that in many respects, India’s existing ‘soft power’ is weak and continues to fall short of its potential for two main reasons. First, New Delhi has long neglected ‘soft power’ as a tool of statecraft and is only beginning to understand the value of ‘cultural diplomacy.’ Second, and more important, it is doubtful that ‘soft power’ in any meaningful (i.e. instrumental) sense can exist without formidable ‘hard power’ resources. Subsequently, India’s ‘soft power’ credentials are undermined by lingering doubts as to whether the country can continue to rise by developing its ‘hard power’ credentials and capabilities.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by negi »

Speaking of sycophancy GoI along with CON party have burnt several hundred crores in past couple of months in name of 'remembering Rajiv Gandhi' and recently during celebration of young 'clown brince' (apparently he turned 40 :roll: ) and all this in backdrop of hoo ha over CWG expenditure.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Philip »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... royal.html

India to return half a billion worth of estates to Muslim royal
India is to return estates worth more than half a billion pounds to a Muslim royal whose father helped to create its neighbouring 'enemy’ Pakistan.
By Dean Nelson, New Delhi
Amir Ahmed Khan was a young protégé of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan Photo: THE TIMES OF INDIA / GETTY IMAGES

Mohammed Amir Mohammed Khan, the Raja of Mahmudabad, has been fighting to recover his family estates, which include a royal fort and a palace built for a former British colonial governor, for 37 years.

The estates were seized by the Indian government along with hundreds of other 'enemy properties’ belonging to Muslims who migrated to Pakistan following the 1965 war between the two countries.

included the family home, the historic Qila Fort, near Lucknow, and the family’s vast property portfolio because his father, Amir Ahmed Khan, decided to become a Pakistani citizen in 1957.

Amir Ahmed Khan was a young protégé of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, but also a friend of India’s first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru in their fight to end British rule in India. The Khans are one of India’s oldest royal families, one of the most senior in the Shi’ite Muslim world, and can trace its roots back to the Prophet Mohammad.

But while he chose Pakistan, his wife, a Rani in her own right, and son, now the current Raja, chose to stay as Indian citizens. Since his father’s death in 1973, he has been fighting a series of legal battles with the government to challenge the status of his inherited estates as 'enemy property’ and recover them from tenants.
The Raja sacrificed his own career as an astrophysicist – he studied at Cambridge and was a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society in London – to take over his father’s responsibilities and was nominated by the late Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi as a Congress candidate in the state assembly.

Since then, and despite having powerful friends in the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty, the Raja has been forced to fight more than 10 court actions to establish his Indian citizenship and his claim as sole heir to his father’s title and estates.

His victory was sealed this weekend when the Indian parliament agreed a new 'Enemy Property Act’ which will restore all confiscated properties to Muslim owners who can prove their Indian citizenship.

Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, the Raja said he was both happy and sad at the development.

While returning his estates, the new act will erase all previous legal rulings, including all those the Raja has won to establish his ownership. He feels he may have won his case but at the expense of a slow legal system.

“My estate is dead capital, you can’t estimate something which can’t be changed but it’s worth a lot of money and that’s why everyone is interested,” he said. “But that’s not of permanent importance. The Qila is the centre of a lot of religious observances throughout the year. But it’s about the law, the supremacy of the judiciary in interpreting it in India.”
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

China’s Denial Of Visa To Indian General: Not So Incomprehensible
http://www.eurasiareview.com/2010083075 ... sible.html
In the post-Pokhran II phase and particularly after the India-US Defence Agreement (2005) period, China is viewing India in a different light. Now, it can only pretend to ignore India, but it is a matter of fact that it cannot really ignore India. The threat perceptions are mutual to a great extent.9 Although India lags behind China particularly in the hardcore military realm and generally on the overall level of national strength, the situation is not that much painfully asymmetric. India is a nuclear-weapon state. Its economy is growing promisingly and is well-integrated with the international economy. Besides, it has acquired considerable politico-military and strategic clout in the international comity. In the words of K. Subrahmanyam, the international scenario is generally favourable to India. Its closeness with the US is warily watched by China. All these factors together compensate for its military inadequacy in the face of Chinese conventional military superiority and makes India a considerable strategic concern which China cannot overlook. China is aware of all these developments. As many commentators have alluded, China perceives India as a country which can come forward to shoulder America’s military responsibility in times to come.10 Thus, as a result, in this phase, China is seen hardening its attitude towards India.
China is not comfortable with sharing space with India in international politics. It has been evident in its attitude towards India’s entry into various international forums like East Asia Summit and Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). It very much longs for a multipolar world, though it also wants Asia to be unipolar under its leadership. Its ultimate policy goal towards India is to tie it down within South Asia. Hence, it is not interested in resolving the lingering border problem between the two countries. It can afford to delay the resolution of this problem as the status quo is in its favour. It wants to keep the territorial dispute alive and thereby India pre-occupied with these problems. Now, it has become inclined to revise its earlier stand of neutrality on Kashmir and wants to complicate the situation there for India.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

Philip wrote: India is to return estates worth more than half a billion pounds to a Muslim royal whose father helped to create its neighbouring 'enemy’ Pakistan.
Actually, US$ 3.5 billion is the amount reportedly stolen by Sonia Gandhi's henchmen from the poverty-stricken masses, on the pretext of the commonwealth games alone.

One wonders how much of that she pays western elites for EVM rigging and as Hafta.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by surinder »

In the partition saga, many RoP'ers who immigrated to TSP, suddenly came back and reclaimed their houses & lands. None of the hapless Sikh/Hindu were able to do that in TSP.

An uncle of mine from Delhi was telling that in 1947-48, under the protection of the Army and seniour people, the RoP who had gone to TSP came to delhi to their old mansions and dug out gold etc. from secret locations in the gardens etc. Again, none of Hindu/Sikhs were allowed to go back and get their burried treasures. The Govt of TSP (under British advice, i would presume) dissallowed refugess to carry wealth across to India. An especially cruel punishment, given that these hapless refugees already lost their lands and houses in TSP. (Read Pran Neville's memoir for tidbits on this.)

Partition was a wholesale theft. The RoP side doing much better in the business. As someone once pointed out: The ROP can live anywhere in the whole of Original India and practice their faith---From kashmir to Kanyakumari to Khyber to Tripura. Hindus/Sikhs can only live in current India. Actually even there they cannot live in many states and districts.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

surinder wrote:In the partition saga, many RoP'ers who immigrated to TSP, suddenly came back and reclaimed their houses & lands. None of the hapless Sikh/Hindu were able to do that in TSP.

An uncle of mine from Delhi was telling that in 1947-48, under the protection of the Army and seniour people, the RoP who had gone to TSP came to delhi to their old mansions and dug out gold etc. from secret locations in the gardens etc. Again, none of Hindu/Sikhs were allowed to go back and get their burried treasures. The Govt of TSP (under British advice, i would presume) dissallowed refugess to carry wealth across to India. An especially cruel punishment, given that these hapless refugees already lost their lands and houses in TSP. (Read Pran Neville's memoir for tidbits on this.)

Partition was a wholesale theft. The RoP side doing much better in the business. As someone once pointed out: The ROP can live anywhere in the whole of Original India and practice their faith---From kashmir to Kanyakumari to Khyber to Tripura. Hindus/Sikhs can only live in current India. Actually even there they cannot live in many states and districts.
One prominent Sindhi family from Karachi told me this story.
His father and family were to move to Mumbai after the partition and they had all the jewelery of the family. THe mayor of Karachi approached them in the port to order the jewelery to be given/held back.
There was a tense moment but they were able to take it with them since his father was top official in PWD posted in Karachi/Peshawar etc
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by rkirankr »

surinder
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by surinder »

Acharya wrote: One prominent Sindhi family from Karachi told me this story.
His father and family were to move to Mumbai after the partition and they had all the jewelery of the family. THe mayor of Karachi approached them in the port to order the jewelery to be given/held back.
There was a tense moment but they were able to take it with them since his father was top official in PWD posted in Karachi/Peshawar etc
Pran Neville says in his memoir that his family had to use the extensive connections to take out some stuff.

The sheer cruelty of not letting someone take their wealth with them is criminality of the highest order. Taking their houses and lands and women and businesses is apparently not enough, you have to even snatch the shirt on the back. May Allah note this.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Abhi_G »

Single Hindu women were not spared even when they were attempting to cross over to West Bengal by the afsar militias of muslim league.

http://bengalvoice.blogspot.com/2008/05 ... ition.html
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

surinder wrote:
Acharya wrote: One prominent Sindhi family from Karachi told me this story.
His father and family were to move to Mumbai after the partition and they had all the jewelery of the family. THe mayor of Karachi approached them in the port to order the jewelery to be given/held back.
There was a tense moment but they were able to take it with them since his father was top official in PWD posted in Karachi/Peshawar etc
Pran Neville says in his memoir that his family had to use the extensive connections to take out some stuff.

The sheer cruelty of not letting someone take their wealth with them is criminality of the highest order. Taking their houses and lands and women and businesses is apparently not enough, you have to even snatch the shirt on the back. May Allah note this.
This family which had mohalla and vast land in Karachi had to survive under trees in India for few days before they got their accommodation.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by derkonig »

surinder wrote:
Acharya wrote:The sheer cruelty of not letting someone take their wealth with them is criminality of the highest order. Taking their houses and lands and women and businesses is apparently not enough, you have to even snatch the shirt on the back. May Allah note this.
All of this is sanctioned by HoKo/allah, so RoP will always do so. Didn't the Kashmiri Pandits face the same situation in 1989-90? What about their properties in the valley?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by derkonig »

Seems the only thing that protects the Indian tax payers' money and saves India from MMS's repeated sellouts is a the puki jihadi media...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 468686.cms
Last edited by derkonig on 31 Aug 2010 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Venkarl »

The editorial claimed that the Indian government had also realised that all their efforts had failed to quench the ardour of the Kashmiris for freedom and the Indian Army chief and even home minister P Chidambaram had admitted that there was no solution to the issue except a political one.
what is a political solution? are previous efforts to resolve this issue a not-political ones? what crap are they trying to make us believe? :x
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Jarita »

^^^ Where is the above from
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Venkarl »

Jarita wrote:^^^ Where is the above from
Deroking's link
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

"The health of nations is more important than the wealth of nations." - WILL DURANT
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by putnanja »

Will wonders ever cease!!

Once a month in Delhi, a high table for eight

Call it what you may — an informal Cabinet Committee on Security, a power lunch, a new experiment in governance. But these past few months, eight of the the country’s most powerful have been meeting over lunch once a month, informally, to sort out critical matters and speed up decision-making.



National Security Advisor Shiv Shanker Menon, General V K Singh, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik , Admiral Nirmal Verma, Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar, Home Secretary



G K Pillai, Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar sit together once a month. Rather than seek political intervention on every prickly issue, they try to sort it out amongst themselves.
...
....

The rules of this cabal are simple. There are no notes, no minutes of meetings. Everything is off-the-record.



The eight take turns to host a lunch, at home or office. The host coordinates the power lunch where all are equal. No one pulls rank — cadre, batch, proximity to political power centres don’t matter here.



Apart from inter-ministerial issues, even personal matters come up at the meetings with the focus being on resolution — be it related to China, Pakistan, terror or telecom security.
...
...
A good start. However, all it takes is one of the participants to be retire and be replaced by another who doesn't believe in it, and we are back to square one. Hopefully, it is institutionalized , for a forum like this meeting regularly is sorely needed!
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Venkarl »

^^^
ahaa...all top civil and military servants meeting unofficially...true blood citizens of India...I don't know why I am so relieved after reading that article Putnanja...regarding your point on transfers and retirements...if the monthly meet has any importance to this country...the incumbents to top positions should be well "trained" with integrity then.....though cabinet and home secretaries may suffice the presence of RAW and IB chiefs respectively...their presence would be more nice. :mrgreen: despite their closeness to political powers.

Added Later: like Lloyd George said ICS is the steel frame of British Raj......This group can be today's steel frame of India
Last edited by Venkarl on 01 Sep 2010 07:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Muppalla »

That means you guys missed dated but related news :)

Not just current ones but also retired ones are doing too. However there are no schedules etc. They are meeting at locations like Kumbh Mela etc.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Venkarl »

Muppala gaaru..I concede...no point shying away...I had no clues of such meets...interesting and inspiring. Thanks.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by derkonig »

Ah, the naked truth of the RoL...homosexuality, rape, ragging, "mismanagement" of funds....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 471601.cms
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sachin »

putnanja wrote:Hopefully, it is institutionalized , for a forum like this meeting regularly is sorely needed!
If I am not mistaken "bullet for bullet" fame Julio Rebeiro mentions some thing simlar when he talks about his first posting as a young probationary ASP in Gujarath cadre. Once their official work gets over the district collector/commissioner, the supdt. of police and at times even the local judge meet up in one the bunglaows for chit-chat and some games. It seems one advantage of this was every one soon "gets on the same page" about the issues and problems in the locality. We can accuse them of forming up a nexus, but the good part is that all these three dont have their individual action plans (contraditicting each other) for the very same problems in the area.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sachin »

derkonig wrote:Ah, the naked truth of the RoL...homosexuality, rape, ragging, "mismanagement" of funds....
Kerala have seen many such cases. Sr. Jesmi who walked out of the nunnery, and wrote a book on bad practises going on there. Another priest (Fr. Pulikkunnel??) who is a lawyer, and gave a number of cases against the top echelons of priests in Kerala (and won most of them). One thing which is a bit reassuring is that unlike RoP folks who come out with these revelations, these folks still have their body parts intact. Off course there would be people/believers who are against this whistle-blowing but I dont think it leads to violence. Remember "Chekannur Moulavi case" ;).
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Sachin- for the uninitiated in the land where artist is the Cheif Minister what is the "Chekannur Moulavi case"
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote:That means you guys missed dated but related news :)

Not just current ones but also retired ones are doing too. However there are no schedules etc. They are meeting at locations like Kumbh Mela etc.
Ahem ahem....
:wink:
Ramana wrote:Hopefully, it is institutionalized , for a forum like this meeting regularly is sorely needed!
Ramana, the power of this meeting is that it is not institutionalized.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Is it is like the dancing flamingos. :)
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Sanku, Correction. Its the original poster putnanja who said your quote.

There are formal meets to with the Secys. They are convened by the Cabinet Secy.

Most likely notes are not taken to prevent leaking. Mrs. G started that after the "Scotch for secrets" scam in the early 80s.

Impliction is there is need for civil-military cooridination at working level to expedite things. The Intel guys work for Cabinet Secy and Home Secy and Principal Scy to PM is a political appointment, however it would be nice if he were there. OTH, NSA is already there.

I don't like Shisihr Gupta on Ind Express calling them a cabal. It reeks of CT stoking for an effective group of officials.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Apologies for the erroneous attribution Ramana-ji
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

India as a superpower - Why and why not?
By Subramanian Swamy

What is holding Indians back from realising the motherland’s superpower potential and become one? In one phrase it is our present ruling elite’s illegitimate Anglo-Indian culture and a mindset to appease and capitulate to those who want to belittle or control India.
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/module ... 58&page=10
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RajeshA »

There is a website of Indian Liberals. A cursory look at it makes me think, BRF ought to keep an eye on it.

indianliberals dot org
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:There is a website of Indian Liberals. A cursory look at it makes me think, BRF ought to keep an eye on it.

indianliberals dot org
A fake concept copied by Indians
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:There is a website of Indian Liberals. A cursory look at it makes me think, BRF ought to keep an eye on it.

indianliberals dot org
A fake concept copied by Indians
However there is nothing fake about the damage they can do!
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:
A fake concept copied by Indians

However there is nothing fake about the damage they can do!
That is why the damage is high and fatal. The goal is to expose them as fake group trying to imitate other nations with no bearing on local culture.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

Then what is holding Indians back from realising the motherland’s superpower potential and become one? In one phrase it is our present ruling elite’s illegitimate Anglo -Indian culture and a mindset to appease and capitulate to those who want to belittle or control India. Our academic elite has swallowed the concocted history which at the core is a deliberate fabrication of our past such as the "Aryan" and "Dravidian" race theory, that we Indians were never of one identity, and that whatever modernity we have today is due to the tutelage of British imperialists which had liberated us from the Hindu obscurantism.

This is the substance of Macaulayism. The Nehru family, with the exception of Rajiv Gandhi, has functioned as its sword arm suitably conditioned mentally by Kim Philby and other KGB agents of Britain. That meant for the British that it was better to be Marxist than nationalist. Of course, this capitulationism attitude is in reverse today faced with the new Indian generation and the growing popularity of Hindutva sentiment.

That is why Marxist historian Romila Thapar in her Dr Neelan Tiruchelvam Memorial Lecture in Sri Lanka recently did a somersault of 180 degrees from her past British programmed propagation of Aryan-Dravidian Race theory. Poetic, since my friend Neelan, a Harvard law graduate, whose memory it was, was killed by the LTTE because he was a moderate and constitutionally minded Tamil. The Marxist terrorist LTTE hated that kind of Tamil.

Again, why are we not a permanent veto-holding UN Security Council member? Because when the Americans offered the seat to us in 1950 to replace China- which had become Communist in 1949 and hence expelled from the UN, Nehru declined the offer by saying that the seat belonged to China ! Our elite media termed it as Nehru’s "nobility". China sneered at our foolishness. In 1962 they answered Nehru’s nobility by humiliating India on the battlefield. Indian soldiers were kept unprepared for that conflict because Nehru was too busy preaching peace abroad for enhancement of his personal image and may be for a Nobel Peace Prize too. Unfortunately the Nehru mindset virus persists even today -of placing personal image above national interest and in caring for Western world applause than for the poor Indian’s security.
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