Mahendra wrote:...
Don't know if this has been discussed here before
Marri on Balochistan independence
How blind are the media? Here the New Dork Times says politcians are trying to score pointsabhishek_sharma wrote:Floods in Pakistan Carry the Seeds of Upheaval
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/world ... pstan.html
But yesterday the New Dork Times clearly reported that the Paki army too was scoring points - only the report was highly respectful of the armyAmid the emergency, politicians seem to have become absorbed in scoring points and squabbling, which has added to the disillusionment many Pakistanis already feel for their leaders, many of whom are rich landowners.
What is missed here is that point scoring is done by the Paki army as well - which is equally guilty in setting itself up as separate from the polity.The message in black Urdu lettering on a white sack of supplies for flood relief says it all: "In tough times, the Pakistan Army is with you."
The powerful military has taken the lead in providing relief -- dwarfing the civilian government -- and in doing so has greatly enhanced its prestige and influence.
Supanallah!!! Pakistaniyat captured perfectly.shravan wrote:Pak fans' 6 step reponse to a match-fixing/ball tampering/cheating scandal
http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showth ... p?t=238633
100 freaking people open a facebook page and CNN IBN (or the article says by PTI) makes it a news headline. Looks like these guys are learning a lot from the american news mediaabhishek_sharma wrote:A handful of Pakistani Muslim youths are beginning to question the existence of God ...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 503409.cms
did they notice zaid hamid has 80,000 followers on facebook and growing?? I am glad indian media is doing its job, but I think paikhastanis r too busy doing the ostrich head burial.In retrospect, the whole afridi resigning as test captain thing looks suspicious.or an idea of the lengths that bookies go to, consider that I have heard in some cases of bookies backing a certain player, making sure that he does well in games (by paying his opponents to fail) and thus helping him become captain and getting him on their books.
There are plenty of secondary documents which allude to this theory. But I haven't come across any authentic primary source from the contemporary era. However, this area and this period is rather ill researched in India. Nobody has made a focussed attempt to study this so far.anupmisra wrote:I did not know that. Maybe OT but is there any documentary link to this theory?Atri wrote:Marri tribe are descendants of Maratha PoWs from Panipat Campaign.. This is one of the theories of the Marri tribe... They are one of the important resources in TSP which are potential allies of India if we cash them..
But that is not the whole story. Even if the caste structure was largely a relic from the pre-Islamic past, new castes also sometimes came into existence. The Maratha Bugtis in Balochistan are an interesting case of what may be a caste forming even under Islamic rule. Theirs is a clan claiming descent from Marathas captives of war brought back by members of the Bugti tribe, who served the armies of Ahmad Shah Durrani (Abdali) after the fateful battle of Panipat.
In time they underwent 'Bugti-ization'and became Muslims. Although for all practical purposes they may now be considered Bugtis, and are even in the forefront in education and employment, they were once considered little better than bonded labour. They could not own or buy land. Up to two generations ago they could be 'bought' for twenty or thirty rupees. Their women were fair game for Bugtis.
The Maratha Bugtis took jobs as unskilled labourers, which their tribal overlords disdained. Over the years they have come to occupy higher positions, and their prosperity is resented by the Bugtis.30 It is interesting to note that this caste-like phenomenon has endured for more than two centuries, even in a region largely devoid of Hindus.
The Maratha Bugtis were not alone in their position as a group living in the Islamic world, with their inferior position determined by heredity. The Haratin31 or Harratin of southwestern Morocco and Mauritania are "a socially and ethnically distinct class of workers". They are descended from slaves, but are now serfs, "without the privileges of freedom".
Thanks Prem. This is exactly what I suspected in the previous avatar of this thread.Prem wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09 ... .html?_r=1
Pakistan's Flooded Farms Unable to Be Sown
SHAH JAMAL, Pakistan (AP) -- Abid Hussein fears the deep floodwaters that destroyed his cotton crop, rotted his wheat seeds and swept away his farming tools are not done ravaging his life. Just weeks before the wheat planting season is to start, his 1.5-acre (0.6-hectare) farm still lies under 3 feet (0.9 meter) of water, and he is certain it will not drain in time. ''I will not be able to plant,'' the 35-year-old father of four said in despair.
he floodwaters that already devastated one crop in the fields are threatening the next season's crop as well, an aftershock aid workers fear could add to Pakistan's misery and prolong the crisis. If they miss this season, farmers in the flood areas won't be able to plant wheat for another year and won't harvest it until May 2012, leaving many dependent on food aid for the foreseeable future. ''It's a race against time in areas,'' said Truls Brekke, a spokesman for the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization. The flooding that swamped as much as one-fifth of the country destroyed 3.6 million hectares (8.9 million acres) of maize, rice, sugar cane and cotton crops and killed 1.2 million livestock and 6 million poultry, according to preliminary estimates by the U.N. and the government.
abhishek_sharma wrote:A handful of Pakistani Muslim youths are beginning to question the existence of God ...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 503409.cms
may this happen to IMs too.....Still a small number, the trend seems to be telling of pressures that the image of militant Islam has had on them
anupmisra wrote:Only 20% of aid received
And that too, only in kind. No hard cold moolah.
Trust deficit: Only 20% world aid to come through govt
More than one month has passed and only 20 percent of the total pledges of $1.014 billion has been received by the government, mainly in kind, through the United Nations (UN) or International Non-Governmental Organizations (INGOs).
Official sources confirmed to The News on Saturday that Pakistan received only $18 million in hard cash after this devastating flood while a major chunk of the pledged aid was disbursed in kind and mainly through UN and INGOs.India has committed $25 million for relief in flood-affected areas and data sheet of Finance Ministry shows that the whole amount would be utilized through UN system.The data sheet compiled by the Finance Division showed that USA and other western countries are not going to disburse their pledged amount through the government.And, you may consider that as a payoff for the Northern Areas by the taller than the tallest......friends.Other than some other Muslim countries, China is the only exception which has committed $20 million which will be disbursed through government of Pakistan.
Perennially 18 yr old ball biter, Afridi calling others as 15!!!Yasir Hameed might have backtracked on allegations of match-fixing against his Pakistan teammates but the side's captain Shahid Afridi is still livid with the opener and has ridiculed him, saying he has the mental age of a teenager.
Afridi, who has apologised for the 'spot-fixing' scandal involving Pakistani players that has shaken the core of international cricket, said Hameed cannot be trusted.
"Yasir Hameed is about 30 or 31 - but mentally he is 15 or 16," Afridi said.
"People know the type of character he is. We have known him for a long time and we know what to expect from him. He has done this sort of thing many times. Is he unreliable? Well, he is sitting with someone he does not know and gives these messages out, so, yes.
"I don't know who he was sitting with or in what situation he gave this message," he added.
People close to the Pakistan investigation say that the three players might not have committed a criminal offence, because you can't lay bets on no-balls in the UK.
By Geoffrey Boycott
... But I will tell you this – what they did looks like a crime against cricket. And if there is no firm response from the Anti-Corruption and Security Unit, we might as well disband it.
As for the Pakistan High Commissioner, he should get off his high horse. Spot-fixing cannot be condoned. There is no conspiracy against Pakistan here, and by claiming that he is "100 per cent convinced" that the players are innocent, he is not looking at the evidence.
It is no coincidence that Pakistan are repeatedly implicated in these scandals, because they never deal with them properly. People might get suspended or banished from the team, but within a few months the regime changes, and they are back again, as if nothing had happened.
We saw a typical example with Mohammad Yousuf on this very tour. I am not saying that he was kicked out for match-fixing – we don't really know – but that the to-ing and fro-ing was typical of Pakistan cricket. One minute he's in disgrace, the next he's on the field.
Now look at the Indians and their response to the revelations surrounding the Hansie Cronjé affair 10 years ago. Mohammad Azharuddin and Manoj Prabhakar were among the players implicated. They were never convicted in a criminal case, but the Indian board was strong. They never played for India again, nor did Ajay Jadeja, even though his ban was quashed in 2003. The selectors cannot be forced to pick people they don't want to pick. Having these sort of players in your dressing-room can damage the team's morale, as well as its credibility.
This realy takes the cake,bails,balls,stumps,etc!Shakespeare wrote that Caesar's wife must be above reproach. The same must be true of cricket. And that means dealing harshly with anyone who casts a shadow on it. If the ACSU aren't prepared to take this case seriously, they should hand this case over to the former players – people like myself, Ian Botham and Michael Holding, who played tough, competitive cricket throughout our careers. I can promise you, we wouldn't mess about.
www.islam-watch.orgVenkarl wrote:abhishek_sharma wrote:A handful of Pakistani Muslim youths are beginning to question the existence of God ...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 503409.cmsmay this happen to IMs too.....Still a small number, the trend seems to be telling of pressures that the image of militant Islam has had on them
Four school children are among 19 people killed in a suicide car bombing in north-west Pakistan.
The attacker rammed a pick-up into a police station in Lakki Marwat town, in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.
Great martial race indeed. But only when it comes to killing women and children.The bomber reportedly struck a school van before ramming the rear wall of the police station; the building collapsed.
A neighbourhood shop and mosque were also damaged.
Neela, that's right, Allah has been singularly cruel and unhelpful to the Purest of the Pure who happen to live in the land that was destined in c. 1947 to be overflowing with Milk & Honey, with cool breeze and gently fluttering green flags, but alas, these are yet to happen. But, this is neither the first time nor is it likely to be the last when He, in all His infinite knowledge and wisdom, chose to punish the Pakistanis for the lack of piety. But, isn't it what the Sahabas, Lashkars, the Jhangvis and the Jaishes have been saying for decades now ? That the Pakistanis should become purer ? OTOH, the State has been attacking them joining hands with the infidels. If 2005 earthquake was a punishment from Him, surely then, 2010 is an even bigger punishment. After the 1971 punishment from Him, when Pakistan turned inwards, He chose to help them. Pakistan could then achieve three important goals: the defeat of the Godless Communist Superpower, the acquisition of nuclear weapons and missiles, and the successful launch of jihad against India. All these were possible because first, ZA Bhutto and then Gen. Zia let loose Islamism. But, all that gain was lost when the jihadi warriors themselves were taken on by the State at the compulsion of Yahud, Hanud, and Nazara after c. 2002.Neela wrote:Allah observed that TSP is not pure enough and sent in the floods. And that too , in the holy month of Ramadan. . Allah seemed to have burst their pious bubble.
.
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Yet another bubble burst.
The third no-ball bowled by Pakistan against England in the fourth Test match during the recently concluded series cost underworld don Dawood Ibrahim Rs 50 crore in Mumbai alone as his bookies had no clue about it.
so 250 crores were from elsewhereSources told Headlines Today that only two no-balls were to be bowled by the Pakistan pacers. Bets of Rs 300 crore were riding on this match worldwide out of which betting worth Rs 50 crore was from Mumbai only, sources said.
Both Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif bowled one no-ball each and the bookies made huge profits. But the tables turned when Asif bowled the third no-ball. It left the bookies in Mumbai stunned as they incurred huge losses, sources said.
So part of mumbai bookies and karachi bookies (terrorist dawood} are on opposite sides.Dawood's men responsible for his betting syndicate in Mumbai -- Junior Kolkata and Kothari -- called up their boss Sunil Dubai. They requested him to call off the bets as following the third no-ball Mumbai's bookies had started demanding that they return their money.
Sunil Dubai then informed Shoiab Khan -- the man running Dawood's betting syndicate from Karachi. Shoaib made it clear that any hue and cry over botched up fixing could expose the syndicate so it was better to return the money and bear the losses.
SSridhar Sir,SSridhar wrote:Neela, that's right, Allah has been singularly cruel and unhelpful to the Purest of the Pure who happen to live in the land that was destined in c. 1947 to be overflowing with Milk & Honey, with cool breeze and gently fluttering green flags, but alas, these are yet to happen. But, this is neither the first time nor is it likely to be the last when He, in all His infinite knowledge and wisdom, chose to punish the Pakistanis for the lack of piety. But, isn't it what the Sahabas, Lashkars, the Jhangvis and the Jaishes have been saying for decades now ? That the Pakistanis should become purer ? OTOH, the State has been attacking them joining hands with the infidels. If 2005 earthquake was a punishment from Him, surely then, 2010 is an even bigger punishment. After the 1971 punishment from Him, when Pakistan turned inwards, He chose to help them. Pakistan could then achieve three important goals: the defeat of the Godless Communist Superpower, the acquisition of nuclear weapons and missiles, and the successful launch of jihad against India. All these were possible because first, ZA Bhutto and then Gen. Zia let loose Islamism. But, all that gain was lost when the jihadi warriors themselves were taken on by the State at the compulsion of Yahud, Hanud, and Nazara after c. 2002.Neela wrote:Allah observed that TSP is not pure enough and sent in the floods. And that too , in the holy month of Ramadan. . Allah seemed to have burst their pious bubble.
.
.
Yet another bubble burst.
Pakistan will take much time to recover economically. It may not even have the capacity to recover because of aid-weariness and corruption that surely will not allow the recovery programmes to succeed. If the PCB can go to these lengths, in face of exemplary evidence, because it needs to protect the 'fixers', imagine the lengths to which the State machinery will go when several billions of dollars are to be involved in rebuilding the economy. An increasingly shining India and a darkening Pakistan may only portend more worrisome terrorism for us. This is what we should guard against.
As for the evaporation of the ummah leadership, it is my opinion that it happened very early on in the life of Pakistan. Pakistan’s siding with the Western powers against Egypt in three instances, the abrogation of the Anglo-Egypt treaty on the Suez Canal and in the British-French-Israeli attack on Egypt in 1956, the creation of Israel and the British-US sponsored treaties such as Middle East Defence Organization (MEDO) or the “northern tier defence”, put paid to the ambitions of assuming the Ummah leadership. (In its latest exhibition of ummah-less stance, in c. 2009, the violent crackdown by the Chinese authorities on the Uyghur Chinese was supported by Pakistan as an “effort to maintain social stability, peace and ethnic harmony”.) Pakistani Prime Minister Suhrawardy’s support for the British-French-Israeli plan on Suez Canal by referring to the Arabs as ‘zero plus zero is after all zero’, so angered President Nasser that he used to tell Indian leaders that India’s non-occupation of Lahore disappointed him. Later, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto tried to assume the ummah leadership role which was thwarted by a combination of US, Pakistani military and the mullah. The MEDO, and CENTO relied on the grouping of Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Pakistan. This upset the citadel of Islam, Saudi Arabia, which in 1955 denounced Pakistan’s action as a “stab in the heart of the Arab and Muslim States” since both Iraq and Iran were enduring rivals of Saudi Arabia. As for Egypt, its reason for disliking Pakistan was that it was siding with the US which was the main supporter of Israel. The relationship with KSA was not mended until the mid 1960s when the US-Pakistan relationship began to witness a downturn. (Then, the houbara bustard again deeply soured the relationship in c. 2007) In fact, the then President of Pakistan Maj. Gen. Iskander Mirza angrily accused his own Prime Minister Suhrawardy, who wanted to oppose the British stance on the Suez canal, as “irresponsible and irrational . . “.
These also show how Pakistan was willing to even compromise on its Islamic solidarity with the Ummah or its own Islamic goals, supposed to be the very foundation of its nationhood, when it came to dealing with India. Pakistan’s ambition to assume ummah leadership invited ridicule from the Egyptian King Faruk when he said, “Don’t you know Islam was born on 14th Aug 1947 ?”
Hardliners in India believe that Pakistan is a state waiting to collapse and India should just wait for the inevitable to happen and hence do nothing. A majority also assert that it does not help India to talk to any civilian government since the only institution in Pakistan that functions properly is the army, which is by definition anti-India. Hence, their policy is that India should continue to build ties with the US and convince the Americans to put more pressure on Pakistan and ignore talking directly to Pakistan. When the Americans insist that India should talk to Pakistan to solve issues, the hawks have a readymade answer. India can always point out that until and unless Pakistan changes its anti-India attitude and stops exporting terror to India, the Indian domestic opinion will not allow any Indian government to move forward with Pakistan.
However, burying your head in the sand and saying that Pakistan’s implosion is inevitable and will not make a difference to India is fallacious and dangerous. Pakistan is a country of 175 million and if the country starts to collapse, the most likely venue for these immigrants will be India, not Afghanistan or Iran. If Pakistan collapses to the extent that even the Pakistani army is not able to hold on to the country, then the security of the nuclear weapons is something India needs to be concerned about. And if the jihadi menace is a problem right now, what will the situation be like when it is jihadi sans control, i.e. when the Pakistani security forces are unable to keep any check on these groups.
The best way to ensure that there is no mass immigration, that terrorists and extremists do not take over the territory of such a large state and that the nuclear weapons are in safe hands is if Pakistan is stable, democratic and peaceful. For that to happen, as Pakistan’s largest neighbour it is in India’s vital interest to help stabilise Pakistan and hence stabilise and secure the neighbourhood. {To quote Suppiah from one of his posts, it is the same 'oppari'. The Tamil word 'oppari' means 'wailing'. Pakistan has threatened us with using nuclear weapons in a first strike and under low thresholds. But, this is the first time I am hearing an argument that India must help Pakistan to prevent nukes falling into the hands of the jihadi terrorists. Isn't this threatening us by putting a gun to its own head ? But, the question that remains unanswered is that when the jihadi terrorists are welcomed as 'patriots' by a Pakistani Army that guards the 'idelogical frontiers of Islam', that still sets faith by strategic depth and jihadi friends against infidel India, how does it matter to India if it gets nuked by the PA or by its jihadi proxies ?}
Stating that the civilians are weak in Pakistan and hence not talking with them has only ensured that the vicious cycle of military power-civilian weakness continues. {It is not India's perceived non-communication that gives primacy to PA in Pakistan.} With India and Kashmir holding such a sway in Pakistani politics, if any civilian government is able to build long-lasting ties with India and move forward in solving the Kashmir dispute, this will boost democracy and civilian rule in Pakistan. {No solution to J&K, except the entire J&K joining Pakistan, will be acceptable to Pakistan. Nobody can sell any other solution as even an idea to the Pakistani masses after having created this 'jugular vein', 'cunning baniya kafir Hindu', 'green flag on Red fort', 'rulers for 1000 years', and lately 'water thief' narratives. How can all these be turned around in a jiffy ?}
However, just as Pakistanis will judge India by its actions, not its intentions, similarly Indians too will judge Pakistan by its actions. President Zardari has oft stated that India is not a threat to Pakistan and Pakistan’s civilian government has often expressed the desire to have peaceful ties with India. These intentions have not yet been actualised. When Cristina Fernández de Kirchner took over as president of Argentina, her first call was to Brazil. If states want to build ties with their neighbours, they make talks with them their priority. {But, the Argentina, Brazil dispute is very different from ours.}
Pakistani hardliners assert that India has never accepted partition or the creation of Pakistan {and the proof they talk of for such an assertion are ridiculous. Some say even Jinnah wasn't sure how the India-Pakistan dichotomy will shape up} and they point to India’s immense conventional military capabilities as a reflection of Indian intentions. Indian hardliners point out that until and unless the entire military — technocratic-intelligence establishment changes its perception of India as an existential threat, things will not change. Pakistani and Indian moderates would like India to support the civilian government and the liberals in Pakistan. {The concept of a 'civilian government' in Pakistan is a self-serving lie. Those who are part of the civilian government today have had no compunctions of calling upon the PA to evict civilian governments in the past and vice versa too. Just last week, Altaf bhai asked 'patriotic Army generals' to take over. The minuscule 'liberals' are absolutely on the farthest of the fringes. While we have to support these liberals, they are going to make absolutely no difference to the outcome. They may be useful in causing some inconvenience to the 'Pakistani Establishment' on some rare occassions. That's all.}
There is no denying that the India-Pakistan peace process will be cumbersome, that there will be setbacks — like during the last foreign ministers’ talks in Islamabad — but there is no other option. India and Pakistan need to continue talks because the main underlying problem is ‘mistrust.’ On the eve of the July 15 talks both countries recognised the need to bridge this mistrust and move ahead. Mistrust is bridged by opening borders and improving visa regimes, by championing trade and commerce and above all by the willingness to listen to the other person and to continue talks despite disagreements and differences.
For centuries France and Germany fought over a piece of territory; {All the analysis and suggestions fall flatly once the enduring hostility of Pakistan with India is simply attributed to irredentism. That shows a poor grasp of the problem} today the two countries are so closely allied economically that it is difficult to imagine they were ever enemies. India and Pakistan have close civilisational ties and yet have fought four wars in the last six decades. The weight of history is on the side of those who want to build ties between the two countries. Let us hope our leaders hear this call.
From Dennis Kux's book, "Disenchanted Allies"Neela wrote:One thing which I did not understand is Pakistan's pro-Brit-France-Israeli stance.
From the same book,Almost immediately after becoming prime minister, Suhrawardy faced a major crisis over the November 1956 British-French-Israeli attack on Egypt. The public opinion in Pakistan towards the British and French action was stormy. In Karachi, mobs attacked the British High Commission. In Lahore, some three hundred thousand angry demonstrators protested against the invasion. The Presss stridently urged the government to quit the Western camp and the British Commonwealth. Suhrawardy wobbled at first and then, stiffened by Mirza, who worked closely with the British, refused to break with Pakistan’s Baghdad Pact allies. “I refuse to be isolated. We must have friends”, Suhrawardy argued. After the US opposed the attack on Egypt, Suhrawardy’s stance became politically more palatable. Still, his action widened the breach between Pakistan and Egypt and other neutralist Arab states.
From The HinduBy aligning itself with the West, Pakistan soon earned an outpouring of brickbats from the Soviet Union, China and neutralist countries such as Egypt, not to speak of the barrage of emotionally charged criticism from India. For Pakistan’s rulers, this was an affordable price for signing up with the United States.
Pandit Pant {Union Home Minister, Govind Ballabh Pant} said the entire Islamic world was conscious of the fact that India had love and esteem for Muslims. This was manifest in the stand India took recently on the Suez issue. “We not only sympathised with Egypt but we became one with her. As against this, Pakistan sided with the US, France and Britain.”
Absolutely correct. In the case of Pakistan, the over-riding ambition was (and has been) also to defeat India. So, the whore would go to bed with anyone.Singha wrote:money, arms & political cover >> ummah leadership. in that sense the western patrons and china would always occupy a greater place in pakistan than random ummahites esp those with much more of a cultural claim to important phases of early islamic history like egypt or iran. the saudis dole out free oil and employment opps so they are respected too.
The above must be internalized.Before I follow up on this train of thought any further, I think it is important to accept one basic reality. In many parts of Pakistan, the Taliban religious philosophy has sympathisers and supporters among the general public, politicians, bureaucracy at all levels, police forces and of course among the local religious establishments and mosques. As such the religious terrorists do not work in a vacuum but have local help and protection even in a city like Lahore.
Edited:SSridhar wrote:Absolutely correct. In the case of Pakistan, the over-riding ambition was (and has been) also to defeat India. So, the whore would go to bed with anyone.Singha wrote:money, arms & political cover >> ummah leadership. in that sense the western patrons and china would always occupy a greater place in pakistan than random ummahites esp those with much more of a cultural claim to important phases of early islamic history like egypt or iran. the saudis dole out free oil and employment opps so they are respected too.
This is yet another fallacy / taqiya spread by Pakbarian RAPEs to fool the world. In a field where there is a wide choice, between, say, a Nancy Pelosi and a Gingrich and say, a Gingrich and a David Duke, yes, that silly statement about 'we never vote Islamists' would apply. In the Pakbaric society where the most liberal politician you can find after a year of searching would probably make Ann Coulter look like a wimpy liberal, such statements make no sense...SSridhar wrote: There is also a false notion that because the Islamist parties never won sizeable seats in the National Assembly or even in Provincial Assemblies (except during the 2002 elections), they are a vociferous but insignificant group in Pakistan. There are a number of reasons why Islamist parties have not done very well in elections. But, the Islamist parties have defined the 'policies' for the State of Pakistan and ensured that these were followed. In that sense, they have been more powerful back-seat drivers than even the PA.