Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 07 Sep 2010 01:27

disha wrote:
SureshP wrote:2 million pay income tax in pakistan. Similarly only 32 million pay income tax in India. A higher percentage for India but hardly anything to write home about.
Wrong equal-equal and a stupid self goal.

You would have been right on mark if 16 million in India pay income tax. The fact is that 32 million pay indicates that 2x times are covered in the tax. Population of Pakistan is 160 Million and we are <1.2 Billion. So we have 8x times population. And we will be equal if only 16 million paid taxes.

Yes, it is okay to identify how much further we have to go, but it is also okay to identify how much further we have come.

Stupidity comes in many forms. It CLEARLY says, in my post, India has a higher percentage. LEARN TO READ before hacking away at the keyboard.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 07 Sep 2010 01:52

32 million figure is from 2006-2007

That apart there is no need to compare ourselves with the retarded surrender-monkeys to our west, while I would not like to make a comment on anyone's stupidity, comparing ourselves to the Pakroaches is a unnecessary self goal.

I would take any figures coming our of Pakroachistan with a bucket of salt, 2 million tax payers might just be another figment of imagination of the madrassa educated governors of Pakroachi reserve(less) banks

Having said that, who am I to stop people from believing Short-cut Azizesque stories of Pakroachistan doing better economically than us, after all they speak better English than us don't they ..Hain?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 07 Sep 2010 02:03

Video evidence of Fake Relief Camp

If you are lucky, you might catch a glimpse of some of the 2 million taxpayer Pakroaches

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 02:07

SureshP wrote:
Stupidity comes in many forms.

Indeed it does. Once TSP desists from use of terror as an instrument of state policy against India, and sheds its dream of flying their green crescent over the red fort, then, all kinds of equal equal can come into play including poverty, taxes you name it. Till then, taking away the focus from TSP terror with any form of equal equal is a form of stupidity.

mayo · Post by **mayo** » 07 Sep 2010 02:54

Mahendra wrote:32 million figure is from 2006-2007

That apart there is no need to compare ourselves with the retarded surrender-monkeys to our west, while I would not like to make a comment on anyone's stupidity, comparing ourselves to the Pakroaches is a unnecessary self goal.

I would take any figures coming our of Pakroachistan with a bucket of salt, 2 million tax payers might just be another figment of imagination of the madrassa educated governors of Pakroachi reserve(less) banks

Having said that, who am I to stop people from believing Short-cut Azizesque stories of Pakroachistan doing better economically than us, after all they speak better English than us don't they ..Hain?

Moreover, a fair comparison will not only compare the absolutes (in this case the number of tax payers in a given year) but also its first derivative (in this case, the rate of change of number of people paying taxes). At a given point in time, two cars may be at the same location on the road but one may be travelling much faster than the other.

ArunK · Post by **ArunK** » 07 Sep 2010 03:13

RajeshG wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcs1oWzXFv8

The above is a link of the Ind-Pak bowlout from first T20 WC. The Ind bowlers were Sehwag, Bhajji and Uthappa. The pak bowlers were Yasir, Gul and Afridi.

Something is not halaal here.

That is perfectly OK. This is a T20 Tie breaker. The T20 game was tied and the tie was broken as shown. You will notice that there were no batsmen. This is like soccer's penalty kicks

James B · Post by **James B** » 07 Sep 2010 03:26

Punjab govt goes after Hindu mythology cartoons

A meeting of the committee was held in Lahore, which discussed ways to get these cartoons banned in Pakistan.

Deeba, who attended the meeting, told The Express Tribune that participants had discussed “cartoons which glorified mythology characters such as Hanuman had a bad impact on the minds of the young children.

She said that “these cartoons were in contradiction with the teachings of Islam and young kids could not differentiate between what’s true and what’s not so these should be banned.”

Deeba said that the meeting was attended by bureaucrats and the information, culture and youth affairs department secretary was also present.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 07 Sep 2010 03:38

Those of you coolly predicting no one will come to India in the event of collapse of TSP is forgetting one fact - vote bank politics. The likes of lalu are salivating at the prospect of another 100m to add to their vote bank. They will be standing at the border with aarti. There will be tough 'competition' from Mulayam, dynasty and of course our Stalinist rapist goon traitor friends and their yellow media puppets. The ones driven back will be the hindus who have nowhere to go.

So TSP in state of perpetual 'collapsing any time soon' is our best bet..

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 07 Sep 2010 03:39

Punjab govt goes after Hindu mythology cartoons

Well, who knows may be allah is punishing the pious for letting these kind of kuffer going on even after 63 years since the birth of BAkistan. Once the pious land is cleansed of kuffer allah will rain bounties.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 07 Sep 2010 03:42

The likes of lalu are salivating at the prospect of another 100m to add to their vote bank. They will be standing at the border with aarti.

If they does that they will be bringing crocodile from river to their swimming pool by digging a canal. They will be history

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 07 Sep 2010 03:48

Abbasi fears trail may lead to current official

Calcutta: Arif Ali Khan Abbasi, respected former chief executive of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB), fears that the spot-fixing trail may actually lead to a current official.

“That’s definitely a fear... The trail could end up in one of the rooms at the Gaddafi (in Lahore, where the PCB is headquartered)... I don’t think the gravity of the News of the World expose has been fully appreciated by those supposed to run the show,” Abbasi, a contemporary of Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi at Oxford, told The Telegraph.

“Why is poor Younis Khan not in the team? He’s one of the few with a triple hundred in Test cricket (313, against Sri Lanka, in February 2009) and is honest with a capital H... Then, don’t forget he’s a World T20-winning captain... Younis is not there because, well, he doesn’t fit into a particular jigsaw...”

Angered and upset, Abbasi continued: “In fact, I’d like to know why Shoaib Malik’s ban was quickly lifted and what’s Kamran Akmal doing in the team? How is he still ’keeping when Zulqarnain Haider scored a superb 88 in his debut Test (against England, in August)... One suddenly heard that he has a stress fracture! Akmal keeps on dropping catches like you and I would drop hot potatoes... Surely, there’s something rotten.”

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100907/j ... 905846.jsp

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Sep 2010 03:51

Brad< Why don't you take the arguments in this thread and estimate the potential for refugees to India in case of TSP failing. No polemics. Write it such that it can be spread far and wide without previous gnan. Folks like Vir Singvi should be wondering why they didn't think of it!

saket · Post by **saket** » 07 Sep 2010 03:51

Interesting discussion on collapse of pakiland - something I favor. Let it go to the Taliban.

As far as refugees, Lalu cannot stand in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat to welcome them with aartis and they are not going to magically transport into Bihar/UP. The pakis will be slaughtered in Gujarat, Rajasthan and Punjab if they try to cross. So it'll be between the Talib and the Arabian sea for them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Sep 2010 03:57

http://ftpapp.app.com.pk/en_/index.php? ... 5&Itemid=1
Total Deeper Fliend Give More

ISLAMABAD, Sep 6 (APP): Liu Jian, Ambassador of China to Pakistan called on Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani on Monday to convey the message of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that Chinese Government will immediately provide an additional assistance of 200 million RMB (equivalent to US $ 30 million) in kind, to supplement the flood relief efforts of the Government of Pakistan.China has already committed relief assistance worth of $ 20 million for the Pakistan’s flood victims in the past weeks and this additional contribution will raise the total of its assistance to $ 50 million, said a press release issued by the PM Media Office. The Chinese Ambassador also apprised the Prime Minister that while a field hospital manned by 55 male and female doctors from his country was already operational in Sindh, another hospital, to be mostly manned by the female doctors of Peoples Liberation Army, will reach Pakistan in next few days time.
Besides, the Chinese Government has also decided to dispatch more army helicopters to Pakistan to take part in rescue and relief efforts.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 07 Sep 2010 03:58

saket wrote:Interesting discussion on collapse of pakiland - something I favor. Let it go to the Taliban.

As far as refugees, Lalu cannot stand in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat to welcome them with aartis and they are not going to magically transport into Bihar/UP. The pakis will be slaughtered in Gujarat, Rajasthan and Punjab if they try to cross. So it'll be between the Talib and the Arabian sea for them.

The dynasty will fire Modi at first excuse and spin it as 'in the interest of humanity and consistent with international obligations towards the plight of refugees' and ask its govt in other states to 'welcome' them, that is why I said competition. Lalu will not get to enjoy the bonus all by himself. The numbers will be too overwhelming for any slaughter strategy to work, even if it were carried out unless that is given to IA with clear and explicit mandate..expect that to happen in current dispensation?.

saket · Post by **saket** » 07 Sep 2010 04:12

Suppiah wrote:
saket wrote:Interesting discussion on collapse of pakiland - something I favor. Let it go to the Taliban.

As far as refugees, Lalu cannot stand in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat to welcome them with aartis and they are not going to magically transport into Bihar/UP. The pakis will be slaughtered in Gujarat, Rajasthan and Punjab if they try to cross. So it'll be between the Talib and the Arabian sea for them.
The dynasty will fire Modi at first excuse and spin it as 'in the interest of humanity and consistent with international obligations towards the plight of refugees' and ask its govt in other states to 'welcome' them, that is why I said competition. Lalu will not get to enjoy the bonus all by himself. The numbers will be too overwhelming for any slaughter strategy to work, even if it were carried out unless that is given to IA with clear and explicit mandate..expect that to happen in current dispensation?.

Improbable IMO, all that needs to be done is to remind the people of India and of the border states in particular of the slaughter and rape done in 1947. The pakis will be foolish to even think of crossing the border with their women folk. I mean the collapse is not going to happen overnight and the people in the border areas will be prepared for this. The dynasty will not risk violence within India and the army will probably create a safe territory around Lahore for the paki refugees.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 07 Sep 2010 04:41

^^ I sincerely hope so, and I would not risk seeing Pakbarian collapse simply to test this theory...let them be on the door of death for the next century...let us not open it for them...too much inner pakistaniyat will flood through..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Sep 2010 06:05

SureshP wrote:
2 million pay income tax in pakistan. Similarly only 32 million pay income tax in India. A higher percentage for India but hardly anything to write home about.

Why? Are you living somewhere else and not paying tax in India so you have to choose whether or not to "write home" about it ? Perhaps you could write and ask if people at home belong to the 3% who pay Income tax or the 97% percent who don't so you can have as good an understanding of India as you seem to have of Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 Sep 2010 06:17

http://www.onepakistan.com/finance/news ... ayers.html

Only 1.6pc Pakistanis registered taxpayers
06/04/2010 12:07:00

KARACHI: Only 2.75 million Pakistanis, or 1.6 percent of the country’s estimated 160 million people, are registered tax-payers and posses the National Tax Numbers (NTN), FBR report said.

Out of these NTN holders, only around two million people file their returns to the tax authorities, the report said. “The compliance ratio has always been below. The share of taxpayers to population is low when compared with the few selected developing and developed countries, where the share ranges between 4.7percent and 86.4 percent.”

The report said that in India, the share of taxpayers to population is 4.7 percent, in Argentina 16.5 percent, France around 58 percent. “The share of taxpayers belonging to non-corporate sector is close to 99 percent in the total return filers. On the other hand, the corporate sector that contributes around 66 percent in the total income-tax collection has a share of only one percent in the income tax base.”

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Sep 2010 06:37

I think enough is known about "refugees" to guess the sorts of situations in which refugees could start appearing in numbers. Typically people run somewhere (depending on the distance and transport available to them) because of lack of shelter, food and water or security (physical or economic security)

Kashmiri Pandits became refugees in India because of lack of security, not lack of food and water or shelter. Tibetans came to India as refugees again because of security concerns. The same thing was true of Bangladeshis who came in 1971.

As per Google uncle - there are 5-7 million overseas Pakistanis with 80% in the Gulf, UK and USA. These people have not only supported their families back home, they have supported jihad against India. 4% of Pakistani GDP is said to be contributed by overseas remittances - and the figure was apparently USD 8 billion in 2008 (all Paki figures are always suspect) - but clearly one overseas Paki can remit enough money to keep 5 pakis in good health in Pakistan and that probably accounts for the wealthiest 20% of the Paki population who will not easily become economic migrants. Besides countries like the UK and Canada have often welcomed Pakistani refugees, nurtured them and cared for them and relatives of people there will surely manage to get many more in.

Pakistan is generally a well watered land (

) and food availability is probably higher on average than India. They will have a crisis for a couple of years because of sailaab, but nothing lasting to cause large scale migration outside the geographical boundaries of Pakistan.

Refugees, if any from Pakistan are most likely to be those people for whom life and security in Pakistan are at risk. Pakistan has spent decades telling its Muslims that their biggest danger is India. So if at all we have refugees from Pakistan the earliest groups will be Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from close to the border areas. Ahmedi are less likely - I think that is a well connected community, but it is a possibility. There may be some refugees in Kashmir - a possibility that the Pakistan army will try its utmost to prevent.

For refugees to pour into India in large numbers, Pakistan has to collapse into a Somalia like state of civil war. I see that as unlikely. Pakistan has had too much (Indian) civilization for too long for that to occur easily. India's big refugee problem will be from Bangladesh as it drowns. Pakistan the state is in a state of failure, but the population are secure and sustainable. That only helps chronic failure from getting out of hand.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Sep 2010 07:30

CalvinH wrote:
CRamS wrote: Recently, I called NPR and asked a foreign policy "expert" Susan Glasser . . . First of all she was stunned that such a question would come her way, . .
I can bet that there must be other listeners who would be going home with some doubt in mind about TSP. Every bit contribute here. . . TSP will be digging its own grave through it actions (national and international) but we have to get the nails and hammer ready when they slide themselves into the coffin.

I completely agree. We must, like squirrels which helped build the Ram Setu, contribute our bit. No opportunity must be lost and CRamS is one of those who perseveres in this.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Sep 2010 07:35

Mauli wrote:
Abbasi fears trail may lead to current official

Calcutta: Arif Ali Khan Abbasi, respected former chief executive of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB), fears that the spot-fixing trail may actually lead to a current official.

It may even go far beyond the Gaddafi Stadium. This is probably a good time to rake up the Dawood issue.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 07 Sep 2010 08:00

Are Pakistan's youth giving up Islam?

Atheism FTW!

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 07 Sep 2010 08:15

Neela wrote: Thanks Prem. This is exactly what I suspected in the previous avatar of this thread.
While not as large an area as initially thought, it is still quite significant. Entire swathes of the rural economy is going to shattered for the next 2 years.
I have not seen any news report but what I believe will happen is that cities will see a lot of influx of migrants.

The article makes it sound like that Pakistanis will not be able to reap anything from the land till May 2012 whereas the truth is that majority of land in Pakjab which is the breakbasket of pakistan (and must be contributing to at least 80% of overall wheat produce) is not touched by the recent sailab.Are there any statistics which shows how much of overall land under agriculture was affected by the flood and what kind of crop it contributed too. Are those sustenance crops like wheat/rice or cash crops like Sugarcane.

The food crisis is just a bogey as pakis can very well start in the next season itself. Most of the place in pakistan gives three crops in a year and the first harvest can be expected as early as Jan-Feb in 2011. So there is no imminent food crisis as most of the paki media is trying to put a spin on. Long term one is very very remote possibility.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 07 Sep 2010 08:18

Daily Crimes:

Telenor Pakistan has donated 100 mobile phones including free airtime to the Pakistan Army. The handsets with SIMs were handed over by Muhammad Farooq Shaikh, Regional Director Sales & Distribution, Central-3 to Maj-Gen Nadir Zeb, General Officer Commanding, 1st Armoured Division, Multan Cantt. Telenor Pakistan has also pledged Rs 100 million in funding and telecommunication services towards relief and rehabilitation of flood affectees (sic).

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 08:21

“To engage Pakistan does not mean surrender”

http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/07/stories ... 181000.htm

India had hoped that this would give India leverage “to coerce Pakistan to pay greater attention to our concerns but unfortunately that has not happened,” he said. “I think Pakistan has acquired a greater amount of leverage in dealing with the United States and others and [so] the results were not as expected.” That is why at Thimpu “my effort was to find ways and means of getting the two countries once again back on the path to a dialogue,” the Prime Minister said.

Acknowledging that things had not moved smoothly since then — in India-Pakistan relations there are always mishaps, uncertainties, some things happen like what happened at the two Foreign Minister meetings — Dr. Singh said it was his sincere belief that the process of engagement had to continue regardless of the government that was in power there. “But that does not mean Pakistan will change its thinking vis-à-vis India, that it would cease to regard an India-centric policy as its number one priority. We have to be realistic enough to take account of all the uncertainties that have been our bedevilling relations for nearly 60 years. But at the same time, if we don't want to go to war then engagement and dialogue are the only way forward,” he added.

Asked how the process was likely to be carried forward, Dr. Singh said he hoped Pakistan's Foreign Minister S.M. Qureshi, “accepts the invitation of our Foreign Minister and visits us.”

archan · Post by **archan** » 07 Sep 2010 08:27

SureshP wrote:
disha wrote:
Wrong equal-equal and a stupid self goal.

You would have been right on mark if 16 million in India pay income tax. The fact is that 32 million pay indicates that 2x times are covered in the tax. Population of Pakistan is 160 Million and we are <1.2 Billion. So we have 8x times population. And we will be equal if only 16 million paid taxes.

Yes, it is okay to identify how much further we have to go, but it is also okay to identify how much further we have come.
Stupidity comes in many forms. It CLEARLY says, in my post, India has a higher percentage. LEARN TO READ before hacking away at the keyboard.

Every so often we get a gyani who wants to bring India into any discussion on pureland to show "oh yes, they suck, and we may be doing better, but you know what... only marginally better".
While I never quite understood what drives folks to do the above, but SureshP, consider this a final unofficial warning before you start seeing PMs in your inbox.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Sep 2010 08:30

Poakroach Takiyya of Yestersaal
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2 ... n-homeland
From the archive, 4 September 1979: Pakistanis 'want to return to homeland'

Pakistanis living in Britain regard it as a hostile foreign country and most of them plan to return to Pakistan, which they view as their true home, a senior researcher with the Commission for Racial Equality claims in a book published yesterday.The book – The Myth of Return, by Dr Muhammad Anwar – is the first major study of Britain's Pakistani population, and reveals the extent of the links Pakistanis living here retain with their homeland.Dr Anwar based his three-year study on the Pakistani community in Rochdale. He says that factors have combined to create strong ethnic boundaries, with white people seen as a hostile "out group" and immigrants participating in their wider community only where it is inevitable.The 250,000-strong Pakistani community in Britain largely came about through a desire by the immigrants to earn enough money to return home to a better house and higher social status, claims Dr Anwar. Once in Britain, he says, Pakistanis realise the extent of prejudice and discrimination against them, feelings

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 08:36

Govt may allow Pak judicial panel to visit, interrogate Kasab

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... ab/678114/

Vril · Post by **Vril** » 07 Sep 2010 09:01

^^^ if this happens it will be a disaster as khatmal julab may whine in front of his masters and they could conclude that khatmal has given statements under duress and he is innocent, honest and pious pakistani (just like their cricketers)...err indian who is being falsely implicated.

this should not happen.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Sep 2010 09:26

Vril wrote:^^^ if this happens it will be a disaster as khatmal julab may whine in front of his masters and they could conclude that khatmal has given statements under duress and he is innocent, honest and pious pakistani (just like their cricketers)...err indian who is being falsely implicated.

this should not happen.

This sort of thing is always a trade off. India can gain some PR capital by doing this but run the risk of what you have stated. Either way it hardly matters. I think India is in a difficult situation here - let me explain my view using an analogy.

It's a bit like an unruly aggressive driver who gives you a shock and angers you on the road after which you start competing with him to get back at him. Being veteran of many such encounters I swear to you that the only game that is played out in such a situation is "If you can be an axhole, I can be as big an axhole as you too". The end point of this game is nobody wins. If you bump into each other - you both lose. If you bump into someone else - you lose. The best you can hope for is to somehow make the other guy bump into someone else so you don't lose and let the axhole make someone else suffer while he loses. For that you have to depend n luck apart from being an axhole. The least problematic tactic is to let the other guy continue to be an axhole while you remain rational as long as you are not being hurt by the other guy's axholegiri.

Islamic Pakistan, home of the pure is bent on acting like an a-hole at every possible opportunity. The only question is what we gain by mimicking that behavior. If we gain something we must do it. If we are only going to get tangled in a "I am a bigger axhole than you" game - then it's not worth it. IMO

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 07 Sep 2010 10:14

I see no harm in letting a few Pakbarians come over to talk to their son of (night) soil Kasab. Only take precautions so they dont bump him off and pass blame on others or do other such mischief. If Kasab rants to them about how yeevil we are, let him do so, who cares. The judicial process is over..

Shiv, I like your 'location'...perhaps another version is 'Pakistan is victim of terror...absolutely, just as Nazis were victims of WWII'

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 10:26

abhishek_sharma wrote:“To engage Pakistan does not mean surrender”

http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/07/stories ... 181000.htm

India had hoped that this would give India leverage “to coerce Pakistan to pay greater attention to our concerns but unfortunately that has not happened,” he said. “I think Pakistan has acquired a greater amount of leverage in dealing with the United States and others and [so] the results were not as expected.” That is why at Thimpu “my effort was to find ways and means of getting the two countries once again back on the path to a dialogue,” the Prime Minister said.

MMSJi thats exactly what TSP was demanding, and you acquiesed to that despite TSP thumbing its nose on Mumbai. If this is not surrender what is? What are you trying to say? Are you just trying use a different set of words to basically say we surrendered without actually saying so?

Acknowledging that things had not moved smoothly since then — in India-Pakistan relations there are always mishaps, uncertainties, some things happen like what happened at the two Foreign Minister meetings — Dr. Singh said it was his sincere belief that the process of engagement had to continue regardless of the government that was in power there. “But that does not mean Pakistan will change its thinking vis-à-vis India, that it would cease to regard an India-centric policy as its number one priority. We have to be realistic enough to take account of all the uncertainties that have been our bedevilling relations for nearly 60 years. But at the same time, if we don't want to go to war then engagement and dialogue are the only way forward,” he added.

Once again, you don't explain MMSJi as to how would all this put an end to TSP-sponsored terror? Please explain to us.

Asked how the process was likely to be carried forward, Dr. Singh said he hoped Pakistan's Foreign Minister S.M. Qureshi, “accepts the invitation of our Foreign Minister and visits us.”

[/quote]

At this rate, one of these days, just as MMSJi casually explains away surrender, he is going to say something like: we have tried engaging TSP, we tried everything, but unfortunatley TSP did not stop its terror tactics, so since we don't want to go to war, we decided to give TSP Kashmir.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Sep 2010 10:33

From Orbat:

#

Pakistan rapidly destabilizing says our South Asia correspondent Mandeep Singh. He says aside from the Taliban-Pakistan-Afghanistan-US situation, which by itself is a huge destabilizer, the Sunni Taliban has been killing Shias, there is Sunni-Shia trouble in Pakistan's Northern territories, plus Shia-Government trouble, the Baloch have started a campaign to kill non-Baloch in their province, and Karachi, Pakistan's largest and most important city, is caught in a multi-actor sectarian conflict. You have the Taliban against everyone, the mojahirs (immigrants from India) against the Punjabis who dominate the governance of the Sindhis, the Pakistan Government against all actors as it seeks to damp down violence. There's also the Taliban against the Government in Punjab. Last, there is the short-term/long-term destabilization caused by the floods, where its become the poor against the Government and the big landlords, because the Government worked to save the landowners at the expense of the poor.
#

We asked Mandeep what the outcome of all this is. He says the civilian government is overwhelmed and will have to call the army to take over. In fact, the mojahirs of Karachi have already for an army takeover though their leader backtracked a bit when all other parties attacked him.
#

The army will not move till the constituted civilian government asks for a take-over.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Sep 2010 11:09

In continuation of my view that no mass influx of Paki refugees will take place is because,barring Kashmir,none of the adjoining Indian states have significant Musim populations,like say Bengal or Kerala,apart from UP,BIhar,etc.We may have the small group of Sikhs and Hindus,possibly Christians of Pak,and other Muslim "untouchables" to the Paki Sunnis,trying to cross over if they live near the border.The Shiiites might flee to Iran-some of them.We might even see Iran move into some of Pakiland to create a haven for Shiite Muslims and establish a buffer zone.The Baluchis will hopefully be able to establish their own nation,but will need help,both from Iran and India.In fact we might see some other western powers also trying to assist the Baluchis and keep them as a vassal state,because of its geo-strategic location,next door to Iran at the mouth of the Gulf.

As for the Mohajirs,Karachi is their homeland now,not India,and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it that way,because they actually have no other place to go and Karachi is the key to Pakistan,its main port.Karachi therefore could end up like Beirut,with a "Mohajir zone",a "Sindhi zone",with a "green line" dividing the city.From time to time there will be the usual bloodletting and one could possibly see a joint sharing of power between the Sindhis and the Mohajirs,which frankly in their own interests they must achieve to prevent total domination by the Pakjabis.

The key to unravelling the "knot" of Pak is to foment dissension within the Paki armed forces using the various ethnic entities that it is composed of.This is because the various ethnic divisions will require their own militias to keep the leftovers of the Paki state at bay.If there are no armed insurgents supporting these ethnic entities operating in the shadows,then they must be formed.The way the Sunni-Shiite bloodletting is accelerating,shows that for their own survival,the ethnic minorities in Pak will have to neccessarily start their own private armies which when the moment comes will require the support of their tribe in uniform.With the MQM leader calling for a coup from the safety of his London lair,the seeds of division have already been sown.The big Q is whether the US will realise that this is the only way that Pak can be controlled,by breaking it up,as every institution in the nation has failed.Uncle Sam will try as hard as possible to keep the state from disintegration,but the "Paki Taliban",and their avowed hatred of the US will only spur them to greater efforts to defeat the Paki army,contributing to the widening of the cracks.Jinnah's dream has turned into a Frankenstein nightmare.

Under no circumstances should we allow Kasab to be met by any Pakis.They will try to do to him what has been done to the Paki cricketer "whistleblower" ,caught on video,who now is trying to retract his statements with assistance for Pak's mission in LOndon and other legal experts trying to save the Pakic riketers from going to jail.Knowing the Pakis to be "habitual offenders" and unfamiliar with the truth,what is to stop them from returning to Pak and parroting absolute cr*p like their High Commissioner, that "Kasab told us that he had been tortured and he has given false evidence"? They might even try to kill Kasab.Enough evidence has been gvien to them.We should now adopt a hard line.If the perpetrators of the outrageous crime of 26/11 are not handed over, then massive diplomatic sanctiions should be slapped into Pak's face.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 11:24

Economy: on the verge of collapse?
Dawn Editorial

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... llapse-790

Finance Minister Hafeez Sheikh’s warning to officials of the state, delivered in a sombre meeting late last month, could not be clearer: the government, federal and provincial, is on the verge of financial collapse. So dire is the state of affairs that the government may not have money to pay salaries in a few months. Lest this be dismissed as hyperbole, Mr Sheikh’s comments have been echoed privately by many economists and experts familiar with state finances in recent weeks. In fact, if anything the finance minister’s comments are on the more optimistic side of dire.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 07 Sep 2010 11:33

abhishek_sharma wrote:Economy: on the verge of collapse?

Yes - more confirmation

http://www.thenews.com.pk/07-09-2010/Top-Story/440.htm

The Principal Economic Adviser to Finance Ministry, Sakib Sherani, had already intimated the IMF, the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank through an e-mail that Pakistan was going to experience the worst-ever economic scenario with 0 (zero) GDP growth and 25 percent inflation in the wake of the deluge prior to the arrival of the delegation.

but the delegation tried to lie as usual, and...

However, an official confided that the finance minister, along with his own team, turned up at the IMF head office with 2.5 percent GDP growth, 13 percent inflation and 4.5 percent deficit after working out the impact of floods on the economy, but this vital visit was sabotaged by the e-mail from the principal economic adviser.

..ouch

The Fund, the official said, has asked the Pakistan economic team to come again in November-December after doing their homework properly on the impact of floods on economy.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Sep 2010 12:26

The answer to Pak's woes might be easily at hand for them! The ISI is so good at counterfeiting,that they could try their hand at some real hard currencies,like the Dollar,Euro and Pound,if not already engaged in that exercise.That should keep them "afloat" for a while. If too difficult,then they can simply print money like Mugabe does in Zimbabwe!

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 07 Sep 2010 12:34

Or as always resort to "pliss to not demand repayment of money because keeda-taleban will win" kind of dhamki-begging. That would lead to another curry-langoor bill which would take care of things until next crisis.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Sep 2010 12:36

Dilbu,

Just makes me want to wish for the financial bankrupcy of the 3.5. That is the only way this paying of Jazia to TSP will end.