J & K news and discussion

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 06 Sep 2010 19:05

My friend sent this email to Times Now TV Channel

Dear Editor,

I wish to draw your attention to the coverage on the strange events going on in Kashmir Valley. So far, on the TV all we see is youngsters throwing stones on armed personnel or damaging public property (towards which I doubt they have made any contribution). Sometimes, we see the armed personnel retaliating by throwing back stones, firing tear gas or even bullets resulting in the tragic loss of life.

I would like to see some reporting that exposes who are the people instigating the young boys (in some cases they are mere children) leaving their homes to pelt stones on armed security personnel. I think it is very strange that these boys should leave the safety of their homes to indulge in stone throwing. Why are they doing this, are they paid? Who is instigating them, why and how?

Furthermore, if Kashmir is closed all these days, how are the common people meeting their expenses? Who is paying for their food and medicine? What is happening to the educational institutions, the businesses?

What was the ethnic and religious break up of the population of Kashmir at time of partition and what is it now?

What has happened to the Pandits who have been forced to flee Kashmir? What has happened to the property & businesses they left behind? How are these displaced persons meeting their expenses?

How does the per capita income and standard of living of people in Kashmir Valley compare with that of people in Jammu and Ladakh?

How does their per capita income and standard of living compare with people of some other States of India?

Why are we seeing only such a response from people of the Valley and not from the other areas such as Kargil, where too Muslims are in majority? Is it because the Shia Muslims are not participating in this protests?

What is the status of the people in POK? Are they happy? When did these people come to POK and from where? Are they original inhabitants of POK (from pre-partition times)? How does their per capita income and standard of life compare with those in Kashmir Valley? What type of autonomy or governance do they enjoy? What was the ethnic break up at time of partition and what is it now?

What is the status of the people in Northern Territories or Balwaristan etc? Are they happy? How does their per capita income and standard of life compare with those in Kashmir Valley? What type of autonomy or governance do they enjoy? What was the ethnic break up at time of partition and what is it now?

If a proper coverage of all the above questions can be done, we can better appreciate what is happening in Kashmir.

I am confident that a TV Channel of your stature will be able to provide the answers in an objective and factually correct manner, thus educating all of us in India as to the plight of our brothers and sisters in Kashmir.

Hoping to see this soon.

With best regards,

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 06 Sep 2010 20:18

^ vkumar Ji, Kindly congratulate your friend on my behalf for the great work done.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Sep 2010 23:06

VKumar:

Thats the difference between western journalists and DDM. When it comes to US interests, have you seen the brilliance of American journalists with their analytical skills? Every issues will be sliced and diced to the dickens to prortray US as the good guy, and whoever else the current US enemey is, as the bad guy. For e.g., any discussion on Iraq these days is about Saddam's brutality, amplified a 1000 times, so that everything else US did will be contrasted against that.

All those questions your friend posed need to be anlalyzed not only by journalists, but also from the highest levels of the Indian govt. While the Indian govt is too consumed by going after "saffron terrorists", at least morons like Vir Sanghvi instead of doing an equal equal on spot-fixing should earn his keep through such analyses. Bakara baby instead of impressing her ISI and western sponsors with her phony "liberalism" should ask these questions and expose the stone-pelting louts. What India needs are nationalist versions of SV and Praveen Swami. The former burns the midnight oil spinning away and does his best in making the KMs and TSP look good, and India as the bad guy. SV even claims that TSP has done enough on Mumbai investigation

. Praveen Swami does OK on details but once again lapses into Saffron terror and that kind of useless equal equal crap.

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 07 Sep 2010 03:33

Mr.Naqvi paints the picture of India being on the verge of civil war. If things are allowed to go this way, he may be right and the yellow journos will be dancing with joy. Furthermore he puts his fingers in tamil nationlism another utopian fantasy and what exactly is desired by him remains very unclear, a communist paradise or a sharia land of the pure? Wonder why usually eagle eyed folks did not notice it here.

Kashmir’s struggle and the injustices
By Jawed Naqvi
Monday, 06 Sep, 2010

Kashmiri protesters throw stones towards Indian police during an anti-India protest in Srinagar September 4, 2010. Ongoing protests in Kashmir, the angriest since a separatist revolt against New Delhi broke out in 1989, have so far killed 65 people and been blamed on Indian security forces. – Reuters Photo
A particularly disturbing slogan heard in the Kashmir Valley, where its young school-goers and old patriarchs, angry women and restive youth are courageously defying Indian rule, is enough to put off any sensitive sympathiser. “Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan.” (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.)

This slogan conveys acute political bankruptcy in a region which has lived with naked military repression for more than 20 years. I’m sure any Pakistani with a sense of justice would also be uncomfortable with the warped mindset the slogan betrays.

That Kashmir is reeling under Indian occupation is not a secret. That Pakistan has played a questionable role there is also well known. Yet, for Kashmiris to see their struggle as part of the many battles being waged by the poorest of the poor against the Indian state’s multi-pronged injustices against its own people, would not compromise or be a contradiction in Kashmir’s struggle for self-determination. The simple question for Kashmiris to ask themselves is, isn’t the same state that has killed 60 young Kashmiris in three months, also responsible for tens of thousands of suicides by indebted farmers in India? Does Sharmila Irom, who is fighting to repeal the law that gives unbridled powers to security forces in her Manipur state have no relevance for the same struggle in Kashmir?

The tribespeople of Chhatisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and West Bengal are fighting for their fundamental rights. One of their demands is that they not be evicted from their homes to accommodate corporate land grab. Is this not what Kashmiri Pandits suffered at the hands of the Indian state as well as non-state actors in their homeland without any redress from successive Indian governments that claim to represent them?

Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have often cajoled dissident groups, including the banned Maoists, to come for talks within the constitutional framework. Why can’t the affected groups simultaneously expose the insincerity of the Indian state? To take just one example, the preamble of the Indian constitution describes the nation as a socialist and secular republic.

Socialism is thus the law of the land. Which Indian government, including the one led by Chidambaram-Singh duo, has come anywhere close to keeping the promise of socialism? Just the opposite. Both have callously opened the country to the depredations of private capital.

I met a Kashmiri separatist a few days after the Babri masjid was razed in Ayodhya. He happened to be the only senior enough leader to be still dodging the police in Srinagar. The rest were in jail. He told me he didn’t care for the plight of Indian Muslims in the wake of the Ayodhya outrage. “They have never helped the Kashmiris, so why should we bother with them?”

The explanation for his aloofness was ironical. How can we forget the senior Indian minister telling journalists during the Agra summit that if Kashmir was to be given to Pakistan on the basis of religious claims, should not the Indian Muslims then be packed off in special trains to Pakistan? Kashmiris and Indian Muslims may see themselves as separate entities with separate causes. But their detractors will always see them as one headache. Check this out with Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who knows Indian Muslims as children of Mian Musharraf.

I put the question to some Kashmiri intellectuals in Delhi recently. I asked them how was it that a movement with international ramifications and wide support among a number of Muslim states could be so self-absorbed that it didn’t have a policy much less a worldview about other people’s sufferings. Kashmiris did speak up once for the Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for even that. On the other hand, there is no dearth of seemingly unrelated groups that lend them moral support. A recent rally in Canada of Sikhs and Kashmiri activists, who protested against India’s brutality in the Valley, could be a case in point. A few weeks ago an obscure Tamil group in India issued a statement in support of Kashmiris. Do the Kashmiris want to know who the members of the Tamil group are?

There is something about this that reminds me of an interaction I once had with Gen Pervez Musharraf in Islamabad. He had just returned from a visit to Colombo where his government was giving military and political support to the government against Tamil rebels. I said how was the Tamil struggle any different from the Kashmiri movement since both stemmed from the denial of the right to self-determination. Gen Musharraf said he didn’t want to comment on another country’s internal matter. So he too chose the injustice, which suited him most.

Vidya Subrahmaniam of The Hindu has done an interesting comparison of three major pogroms in India, each fighting its own battle without getting involved with the sorrows of each other.

The Orissa violence, in which Hindu-Adivasis targeted Dalit Christians, was undoubtedly smaller in scale compared to Gujarat 2002 and Delhi 1984. “Despite…variations, the three pogroms could have been written, produced and directed by a single satanic mind, judging by the astonishing similarity in the detail and sequence of events and the stunning brutality of the crimes committed,” says Subrahmaniam.

In his November 2002 foreword to the report of the Concerned Citizens Tribunal, which collected 2,094 oral and written testimonies from Gujarat’s victim-survivors as well as human rights groups, Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer said: “The gravamen of this pogrom-like operation was that the administration reversed its constitutional role, and by omission and commission, engineered the loot, ravishment and murder which was methodically perpetrated through planned process …”

Eight years later, as Subrahmaniam notes, the jury at the Kandhamal Tribunal had similar words to say: “The jury records its shock and deep concern for the heinous and brutal manner in which the members of the Christian community were killed, dismembered, sexually assaulted and tortured … There was rampant and systematic looting and destruction of houses and places of worship and means of livelihood … The jury is further convinced that the communal violence in Kandhamal was the consequence of a subversion of constitutional governance in which state agents were complicit.”

“When, in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s 1984 assassination, thousands of Sikhs were massacred on the streets of Delhi, the commonly-held view was that it was an aberration brought about by an extraordinary situation. Comparisons were made with the 1947 Partition riots but few could have known at that time that the clinically planned and executed anti-Sikh pogrom would serve as a model for two more episodes of mass aggression against minorities,” The Hindu analysis said.

India has spawned a coalition of injustices. For those in the Kashmiri resistance to show solidarity with those fighting the same bloated, militarised state that they are, will not compromise their goal. It would only deepen their vision and sharpen their ideas of what kind of ‘azadi’ they are fighting for.

[email protected]

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 07 Sep 2010 07:34

Another TSP terrorist sympathizer or CIA worker pontificates and TOIlet puts it on headline

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 508298.cms
For the first time, securitymen kill more civilians than terrorists in J&K

As the central government looks at concrete steps to stem the tide of violence in Kashmir, statistics paint a worrisome picture of what is wrong in the Valley. For the first time since insurgency started in Jammu and Kashmir in the late 80s, more civilians have been killed by security forces than terrorists.

This sudden twist in the reality of Kashmir should weigh heavily in their minds as the Prime Minister and his senior colleagues assemble for a Cabinet Committee on Security meeting later this week to chalk out a strategy to deal with the upsurge in street protests and casualties in firing by the security forces. According to the latest statistics, the number of civilians killed in firings by security forces is almost three times the number of those killed in actions by terrorists. A total of 27 civilians have died in terrorist attacks this year till date, while 68 civilians have died in actions by security forces.

The chilling statistics tell the story of 2010 -- a year that saw most traditional parameters, such as the number of incidents and casualties, for measuring Kashmir violence hitting rock bottom. Even in 2008, when the Amarnath land agitation hit both Jammu and Kashmir regions, out of the total of 147 civilians killed in the year only 57 died in actions by security forces. The rest of the killings, 90, were in terrorist actions.

In 2009, of the total 83 civilians killed in the state, only 11 had died in actions by security forces. But the figures of 2010 till date show how significantly the situation has turned away from historical realities, how the security forces have literally become the "biggest perpetrators" of violence in the state.

Look at how the brainless, terrorist crooked ba$tard sensationalizes and totally twists facts. In 2009, only 11 civilians were killed by security forces since there were no violence and thugs throwing stones at security forces. Now that the thugs/murderers are out in the open trying to kill security forces, these scums are being killed. The ba$tard twists and goes on like mad dog. This is the story of our stupid TOIlet and some loser called Josy Joseph.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 08:26

Separatists must be told that “azadi” cannot even be a distant dream: BJP

http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/07/stories ... 611200.htm

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 07 Sep 2010 08:26

IMHO, the so-called stone pelters should be called "rock hurlers" instead.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 08:35

'Keep education out of strikes'

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Keep-educ ... 96925.aspx

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 09:20

Khaki enemy? 60000 Kashmiris apply for 3000 police jobs

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 508979.cms

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 07 Sep 2010 09:44

^

SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks and threats of social boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for young job hunters in employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by hardliners to shun the khaki force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 jobs in J&K police -- about 200 applicants for one constable's post.

Madrassa math?

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Sep 2010 10:35

From orbat:

#

Meantime, back in India the Kashmir situation is deteriorating. The Army is picking off Pakistani infiltrators left and right, because - as we have said many times - it has finally gotten its act together and is completely prepared. The infiltrators are not a problem now.
#

But the civil police have not been able to switch to non-lethal means to control protestors. Another four demonstrators were shot when they stoned a police chief's convoy.
#

Well, we feel bad for the people of Kashmir, but having made their bed they must now lie in it. India pulled out the Army, and most of the Border security Force, leaving local and Central Reserve police to handle law-and-order. It held free elections, with 60% of the population voting despite a boycott by separatist groups. If you don't consider sixty percent that fair, ask yourself what percentage of the US electorate votes. India keeps pumping money into Kashmir, 10 times per capita more than the rest of India gets.
#

If the Kashmiris cannot still pull together, and if they still want to dispute the division of spoils despite the clear electoral verdict, then we're very sorry to say this, but the Army is going to be back.
#

The Government has repeatedly offered talks, the separatists have countered with impossible demands, such as the involvement of the international community in negotiations. This is going to happen over India's dead body.
#

if the Kashmiris think they're being repressed right now, we can assure everyone its going be ten times worse if the Army is called back. Not least because the Army never wanted to be involved in IS in Kashmir to begin with, and was delighted when it was sent back to their bases. It is going to be in a very, very bad mood if they have to return. And if in the next few years India gets a right-of-center government, then the privileges the Kashmiris have since 1947 that are not given to other Indians are going to go into the trash bin.
#

The last time the army was involved in Internal Security in Kashmir, the number of Army and para-military troops deployed for pure IS was between 200-225,000. It was NOT 700,000 as some alleged for the very simple reason that if violence in Kashmir were to end tomorrow, half-a-million army and border troops will remain because they are for external defense against Pakistan and China.
#

India is undertaking a major build up of its paramilitary troops as well a sizeable Army buildup. Next time around you'll see 350,000 troops and police deployed for IS, a situation which is hardly going to cause the Kashmiris to rejoice and celebrate.
#

The Kashmirs have to learn - like all Indians are learning - that they live in a democracy and they get their chance to change their national and state government on a regular basis. If the losers don't like the results, they cannot resort to violence to get what they failed to get in a peaceful manner.
#

We have heard lots of criticism about unfree elections in Kashmir. Well, this last one was cleared by foreign observers as free. And we wonder how free any democratic election can be when you have hordes of terrorists and separatists running violently around.
#

Because the Indian Prime Minister is by temperament a kind and peaceful academic and goes on and on offering talks instead of the stick, the Sunni Kashmiris have gotten the idea they can push the Government of India around. To begin with, the claim of the Sunni Kashmiris to all Kashmir is illegitimate: there are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Shias with no desire to live in a Sunni run Kashmir. If anyone doubts this, please examine the experience of non-Sunnis in Pakistan, to say nothing of the West Pakistan treatment of the Bengalis, and Hindu Bengalis by the Muslim majority, as well as what's happening in every part of Pakistan today.
#

The hashish inspired dreams of Sunni Kashmiris for independence have no basis in reality. If India left tomorrow, by 12 noon, by 12 midnight "independent" Kashmir will have been seized by Pakistan. so why should India give up its own territory just to see it taken over by Pakistan?
#

And if the separatist Kashmiris really think they west is going to a FRY to keep them independent, then we're very sorry, but they are in a hopeless psychotic state. The first difference between between FRY and "independent" Kashmir is that FRY was white Europeans. The second difference between FRY and "independent" Kashmir is that FRY was a tiny country you could throw into any corner of India and the locals will not even notice. India is a country of 1.2-billion people. Third difference is - anyone notice that the west is just a teensy-weensy bit fatigued of taking on fights it cannot win? The west is really going to help keep separatist Kashmir independent so that another country falls to the Islamic fundamentalists?
# { What is FRY?}

Kashmiri separatists need to stop doing the Timothy Leary thing and smell the coffee or whatever. We all want our own country. But we cant have it so we get over it.
#

India's role in creating separatism No discussion of Kashmir can be fair unless we look back to India's boost to separatism. When India - um - "helped" Bangladesh become independent in 1971, it was the first time since World War 2 that a country was forcibly partitioned. We cannot count Israel's take over of Palestine because that was conquest. We're talking about A coming in and breaking up B into B and C, and then going home. The international community was so horrified it voted 104 to something (if we recall right), asking India to cease hostilities in Bangladesh and to please leave.
#

Pakistan's invasion of Kashmir using irregulars in 1947-48, 1965, and 1999 were not in the same category because the intent was annex part of India, not to break up India and go home.
#

The matter of the UN Plebiscite The Government of India - and its people - can be quite limp-wristed in their defense of India and Kashmir. We still see references to "India refused to abide by the UN resolution for a free referendum in Kashmir."
#

Fact 1: Yes, India did refuse.
#

Fact 2: India refused because Pakistan did not withdraw its troops from the "disputed" territory. The Indian Prime Minister agreed to a referendum provided Pakistan withdrew. This was an essential component of the ceasefire agreement and subsequently.
#

Fact 3: Pakistan says it did withdraw its troops; the ones left behind were members of the Azad (Free) Jammu and Kashmir Militia over which it had no control. Sure they were, just like the infiltrators of 1965 were just spontaneously awakened freedom fighters, and just like the elite Northern Light Infantry magically became "mujahids" about whom Pakistan had no knowledge...say, dijda see that line of pink elephants that just flew formation over the US Capitol? It's true, officer, it's really true, why are you loading your tranquilizer gun...if you didn't see the pink flying elephants you need to get your eyes examined...
#

Who started this whole darn thing? We believe that had Pakistan not twice tried the freedom fighter thing in Kashmir, India would not have gotten the idea of "helping" Pakistan Bangalis to free themselves. You may disagree, if you do, we'd be happy to publish your views.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Sep 2010 10:53

An article by a woman from Human Rights Watch is available on foreign affairs dot com.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 07 Sep 2010 10:58

PSYOPS to bring Peace between Christianity, Islam and Judaism and Hinduism

http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=657

Read as: PSYOPS to stabilize Indian Kashmir

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 11:02

abhishek_sharma wrote:An article by a woman from Human Rights Watch is available on foreign affairs dot com.

I read it. Makes you throw up. Its now become fashionable to repeat this sordid nonsense that current protests are indigeneous, TSP has no role, and India is bludgeoning the youth. TSPA and ISI must be laughing their asses off in Rawilpindi as pygmies like Meenakshi Ganguly (author of this artcle) make a fool of themselves wittingly or unwittingly.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Sep 2010 11:06

CRS,

They are not making a fool of themselves. This is intelectual prostitution on their part. IOW, they get paid to do this. This kind of self loathers exist in every liberal democracy. We may not agree with them or what they say but we should not shout them down.

JMT

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 11:14

One has to admire TSPA & ISI. They are relentless in their pursuit of the valley come what may. And they always manage, just in time, to scuttle any gains India makes. With elections, terror down to a certain extent, and if things continued that way, TSP would have faded away into irrelevance, but they come up with some magic each time to keep the pot boling. There is a systematic method in their tactics: that takes into account all parameters: international climate, US, leadership in Delhi etc. A direct LET assualt in Srinagar would have been counterproductive, esepcially in the wake of Mumbai and someone weak and ever willing to make concessions like MMS in power. So this tactic. It remains to be seen if this is a passing phase until the next tactic, or TSP has something up its sleeve further down the road.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 07 Sep 2010 11:25

sum wrote:{ What is FRY?}

Former Republic of Yugoslavia.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Sep 2010 02:47

While we try to figure out how to take back POK, the johlawallas of Hindu want to see an independent Kashmir. I think the is AG Noorani is a communal guy masquerading as a Left/liberal. The opposite of a watermelon: Red on outside and green on inside.

Should be in the J&K thread too.

Frontline article on J&K period between Independence and accession by AG Noorani:

Kak and Sheikh

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Sep 2010 04:40

Noorani, an old green Snake in the grass.
Wonder why he dont dare to write about plebiscite on population transfer based on the religious creteria as reomended by Dr Ambedhkar. Any lingering issue from 47 must consider the religious angle to fulfil the partition rational.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Sep 2010 04:40

ramana wrote:While we try to figure out how to take back POK, the johlawallas of Hindu want to see an independent Kashmir. I think the is AG Noorani is a communal guy masquerading as a Left/liberal. The opposite of a watermelon: Red on outside and green on inside.

Should be in the J&K thread too.

Frontline article on J&K period between Independence and accession by AG Noorani:

Kak and Sheikh

Indeed he is a vile, dangerous, communal snake. He is basically rooting for a fight

The BJP cannot be conciliated. It must be fought.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 09 Sep 2010 04:50

Govt may make AFSPA 'humane'

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) will meet in a day or two to consider amending the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) to make it more “humane”. The CCS will also consider partial withdrawal of the Act from certain areas of J&K.

Among the key amendments to AFSPA, proposed by MHA, are dropping the phrase “even to causing of death” as a permissible consequence of firing, or use of force by the armed forces in J&K, and providing for a grievance redressal mechanism to address complaints regarding AFSPA abuse.

It may not be too easy to make the relevant changes in AFSPA, or its application, in view of reservations expressed by both the ministry of defence as well as the Army. Only recently, Army’s Northern Command chief Lt Gen B S Jaswal had observed that special powers were required while dealing with special situations.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Sep 2010 09:15

So, what SV was hinting at in Chindu is slowly coming true... Nice lesson for all protesters and vandals. Protest, burn property and get compensated for the "brutal action " of the authorities thereafter ( that's one of the EID package proposals, apparently)!!

How on earth can Srinagar be removed from AFSPA when it is the epicentre of all the disturbed areas in the valley?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 09 Sep 2010 11:50

Will AFSPA need to go to the Parliament to be diluted? Or can MMS/Sonia carry out yet another hatchet job on the usual Indian system bypassing the parliament?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Sep 2010 11:58

ramana wrote:While we try to figure out how to take back POK, the johlawallas of Hindu want to see an independent Kashmir. I think the is AG Noorani is a communal guy masquerading as a Left/liberal. The opposite of a watermelon: Red on outside and green on inside.

Should be in the J&K thread too.

Frontline article on J&K period between Independence and accession by AG Noorani:

Kak and Sheikh

Independent Kashmir is a US policy and its stance. It has been kept secret for a long time.
They have put in people and lobby at right places to facilitate this.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Sep 2010 21:26

^^ The people they have put in place includes some of the suspect intelligensia in India

negi · Post by **negi** » 09 Sep 2010 23:20

The dog and pony show goes on.

Geelani arrested

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Sep 2010 23:23

negi wrote:The dog and pony show goes on.

Geelani arrested

What about the rest of his miserable biradari?

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 09 Sep 2010 23:34

Police crack down on netizens for 'naked parade' video in Kashmir

The J&K police are trying to identity the netizens who uploaded a video clip on social networking sites, purportedly showing security forces stripping young civilians in an unidentified Kashmir village. The video evoked a reaction even from New Delhi with Home Minister Home Minister P
Chidambaram describing the video as "unsafe to rely on".
The police have taken cognisance of the three-minute video clip too. "In the initial investigation, it has been found that these reports have not been verified as yet and therefore to attribute it to security forces with the intention of maligning them and spreading disaffection amongst the people is highly regrettable," said a police spokesman.
It purportedly shows some boys being paraded by security forces in Sopore, he added
The police have started investigation to ascertain the veracity of the video, mainly uploaded on Facebook and YouTube.

The police are mulling action against organizations, which try to propagate it. The clip has already been removed from websites and YouTube by the authorities. The clip continues to do rounds on mobile phones, incensing people on the street.

The undated video has fuelled anger among the masses and many planning to organise protests. Some have decided to report the parade of naked unarmed civilians by personnel, wearing uniform and speaking both Hindi and Kashmiri in the backdrop, to international human rights bodies.

The video, which apparently seems to be shot in autumn and not in the recent civil unrest, is drawing parallels with the images of infamous Iraqi jail Abu Gharib, where US marines were shown torturing and humiliating nude detainees with dogs let loose on them. The video clip is named after the Iraq's infamous jail "Kashmir's Abu Gharib".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2010 00:14

So now its fake videos.

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Sep 2010 01:31

^ Siddharth Varadarajan has it on his twitter too.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Sep 2010 09:38

From email

AFSPA's demise will be a victory for terrorists

With a raging debate about the revocation of the Armed Forces Special
Powers
Act, there is a need to examine the necessity of AFSPA in areas in the
northeast
and Jammu and Kashmir, from the operational point of view.

The shrill rhetoric of politically driven notes that invade us, if
allowed to
hold sway, may drive us deeper into the dark world of both Islamist
terror and
the Maoist insurgency, otherwise.

The AFSPA came into being in 1958, with its applicability being limited
to
certain northeast states where insurgencies had reached levels that were
beyond
the capabilities of the police and para-military forces. The provisions
were
later extended to parts of J&K.

There are provisions, even without AFSPA, that allow the army to operate
in aid
of civil authorities; however these require the adherence to certain
basic rules
that were found operationally impracticable in insurgency areas.

These rules allow the civil administration to requisition the armed
forces
assistance. In the eventuality of a law and order problem, a magistrate
can hand
over the situation, based on his judgment, to the armed forces to act as
deemed
fit by the army, thereafter.

The necessity of AFSPA's provisions are better perceived when viewed in
the
light of the mechanics of a simple counter insurgency day-to-day
operation. But
before that, a degree of familiarity with the basic tenets of counter
insurgency
operations is essential.

Foremost, these have to be swift, since the terrorist is a fleeting
target, and
would have melted if not dealt with immediately. Operations also call for

secrecy of plans. Should the terrorist get a whiff of the forces' plans,
he
would either move out or lay an ambush along their route.

Such operations call for hard intelligence so that efforts do not go
waste, and
our forces do not execute long tactical marches through difficult and
often
dangerous terrain, only to draw a blank.

Finally, such operations call for tremendous initiative in the junior
leadership. They have to respond to the situation with immediacy.

Taking an example now, when an operation is to be launched based on hard
intelligence of terrorists being present in a house, if the army has to
go to
court and get a search warrant, obviously two basic tenets would have
been
violated. Neither will the army's plan remain a secret nor will it be a
swift
operation permitting success.

Going along with the same example further, on reaching the hideout, be it
a
house or bunker, if the officer leading his men has to await orders from
a
magistrate to open fire, the terrorist would either shoot him dead or run
away,
all guns blazing.

The provisions of AFSPA empower even a non-commissioned officer to search

without a warrant and fire if required. The forces are also empowered to
blow up
a terrorist ammunition dump or hideout.

Progressing further, after operations, while returning, if caught in an
ambush,
a situation being faced by the Central Reserve Police Force repeatedly in

Naxalite-dominated areas, it is not possible to await a magistrate's
order to
open fire and breakout of the ambush.

Such an approach can only lead to prohibitive casualties that will surely
affect
morale and initiative of the forces. In fact, it will be impossible to
make a
magistrate available in the dense jungles and urban ghettos where battles
are
often fought in a rural insurgency or urban terrorist environment.

For the provisions of the AFSPA to be applicable, an area has to be
notified as
a disturbed area; the powers for such notification being with both the
central
and state governments.

The clamour demanding that such powers be the state governments alone,
has
dangerous implications. In our milieu of appeasement politics, the state
governments may not be ready to impose AFSPA keeping in view loss of
political
mileage.

While there have been cases of armed forces personnel violating human
rights, it
needs to be perceived that of the approximately 1,500 FIRs (First
Information
Reports) lodged for human rights violations, barely 2.5 percent were
found
substantiated enough for further action.

One hundred and four army personnel have been punished under the Army
Act,
already.

The provisions of the AFSPA require the central government's sanction for

prosecution of armed forces personnel charged with violations. Such
safeguards
have been there in the Criminal Procedures Code for decades without a
murmur
from any quarter.

While many political parties are up in arms against the provision in
AFSPA, the
CrPC is not applicable in J&K; the environments in which insurgency
operations
are conducted make such safeguards necessary.

Immediately after any operation and especially so if it leads to the
death of a
terrorist or any collateral damage, over ground workers of various
insurgent
groups take the legal route. If the safeguards of AFSPA are not there,
the
army's leadership will be answering court summons far more often than
leading
operations.

It will also have a telling effect on one of the basic tenets of counter
insurgency -- officers will not take any initiative to launch anti-terror

operations. In effect, we will have played into the hands of the terror
groups,
comprehensively.

For a terrorist, support of the population is of utmost importance. He
hides
within them and feeds off them. Militaries try to wean away the
population, and
fully perceive that should human rights be violated, they lose ground to
the
terrorists.

No professional army with as much experience in combating insurgencies as
we
have would accept human rights violations by its rank and file.

It needs also be perceived that terrorists use the freedom, ethics,
institutions
and technologies of the free world to further their aim. An army fighting
a
terror battle is unable to use the complete compliment of its power.

To also have it operate without safeguards and operationally required
provisions
is as good as the state fielding its last bastion in a war none can win.

It may also be relevant to recall the way Sri Lanka defeated the
Liberation
Tigers of Tamil Eelam. They used the full range of their military
capability
while accepting far higher civilian casualties. The Pakistanis have used
air
power and artillery in the North West Frontier Province before sending
their men
into such areas.

Air and artillery are primarily area weapons that in an inhabited area,
are
bound to cause huge collateral damages. The Indian Army uses small arms
and
personal weapons, mostly; a fact that has led to its suffering higher
casualties.

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Sep 2010 09:42

New rising hardliners to reject Jammu & Kashmir concessions

As New Delhi prepares to announce what it considers to be its biggest concessions on Kashmir, the sullenness of a disturbed but handsome young teenager nursing two bullet wounds on a Srinagar backstreet is a symbol of why it will fail. "We do not care about any announcement," said Owais Ahmed

"Mandela" (20), sitting in his family's ramshackle two-room home in the warren of Maisuma, grimacing with pain from still-raw stitches from a bullet wound in his shoulder.

A fifth-class pass whose favourite subject was English, "Mandela" — named so because he was born the year Nelson Mandela was freed — is a legend on the street, feared by the police and idolised by stone-throwers who are double his age.

With startling speed, a generation of unknown, hardline leaders has quietly taken over the Kashmiri street and mind from the old batch of increasingly ignored separatists, rendering Delhi's forthcoming announcement almost irrelevant before it is announced, probably on Eid, which may be on Saturday.

Those who man the frontlines, like "Mandela", are semi-educated, but others emerging from different strata of Kashmiri society are articulate professionals, feeding off an unprecedented coming together of class and mass in India's only Muslim-majority state.

This coalescing of anger and fast-spiralling passions is evident on Twitter and Facebook. The latest is a Youtube video showing young men paraded naked, purportedly by security forces. It went viral so fast on Wednesday that Home Minister P Chidambaram reacted, saying its authenticity was being investigated.

The unrelenting protests have been on for 90 days, and 69 people, mostly young men and boys, have died in a cycle of stone-throwing and police firing.

As HT interviewed this new batch of leaders, their followers, civil society and the local administration, it seemed clear Delhi's concessions have already been regarded as "less than adequate in this atmosphere", as one police officer put it, that protests will become more virulent, that even a Syed Ali Shah Geelani (82), considered a hardliner until as late as end July — when he had quiet discussions with interlocutors — is on the verge of being eclipsed.

"We have not given Geelani and Mirwaiz (Omar Farooq) a mandate to engage in dialogue," said Syed Babar Jan Qadri (30), a suave lawyer who criticises Geelani, is very active on social-networking sites and speaks publicly on "the end of the occupation".

The separatists, said Qadri, "will be lynched if they negotiate."

Qadri, who calls himself a fan of pre-independence revolutionary Bhagat Singh said he would not reveal his strategy.

"This is war and we cannot make this public," he said.

Another new "leader" in this as-yet evolving phenomenon is Masarat Alam (39), a bearded, convent-educated aide of Geelani. He releases the so-called "protest calendar", which now serves as a widely observed guide to shutdowns.

On the run from the police, Alam could not be contacted, but he released this statement on the eve of Eid: "Whenever you feel we are betraying or diluting your cause for freedom, do not waste time in throwing us out of your lives — your struggle — your future."

"What we could not do in the last three years, stone pelters have done for Kashmir; Delhi is listening," said the Mirwaiz, whose rephrased moderate language indicated how quickly the public mood has changed.
....

Back in Maisuma, "Mandela", who says he saw his friend die in police firing in July, watches stone-faced as his father, Mohammad Bashir (41), explained how he kept his family going on loans.

"My son has done all this for the qaum (nation) but nothing for the house," said his disapproving mother.

Eid is around the corner, but the family has no money to buy anything.

Tell "Mandela" that azaadi (freedom) is unlikely to be around the corner, and he nods: "The struggle will go on, and on, and on."

Why do i get the feeling that such kind of articles are growing day by day in the MSM and within the next 3-4 years, the call to let kashmiris decide their own future start growing in the aam janta and Dilli Bills( who are bombarded with such sob stories about educated youth idolising Bhagat Singh and fighting etc) will reach a crescendo?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2010 09:54

Hello! Once the PRC has moved its troops inot POk the question of Art 370 concession/vencession is out of the window. Non Indian sub-continent(ie PLA or anyone else) troops having foothold negates all post accession agreements.

So put Geelani and Hurrirats in jail.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2010 10:03

Maybe the azaadi seekers need to be sent across the LOC for further training working as slaves in the Chinese mines

and earning a living cutting stones themselves before pelting them.

Follow that up with a population exchange with Baltistanis who want to cross over.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Sep 2010 10:10

Another good one by JagmohanJi: Change for whose sake?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Sep 2010 10:12

Whats gonna happen if Army refuses to move the troops without protection of AFSPA? Hope my fear of MMS/ Congress / Psers trying to damage national Security instituions is not coming true. Saffron terrorism, AFSPA etc cant be natural conincidences.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2010 22:01

Nightwatch comments, 9/9/2010

India-Jammu and Kashmir State: During meeting on 8 September, Prime Minister Singh told Jammu Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) can be partially revoked in six areas. The AFSPA reportedly will be withdrawn from Srinagar, Ganderbal and Budgam in Kashmir region, and Jammu, Samba and Kathua in Jammu region, because they have experienced relatively less violence over the past year.

Comment: The significance of the federal action is to open a half dozen districts (\roughly counties in the US) in each part of Jammu and Kashmir State to normal tourism and commercial activity. It is good news, while reducing the profile and visibility of security forces.

This is a risky step by the Prime Minister in his program to try to restore civil normality in the state, because the announcement makes each district a potential magnet for separatist subversion and violence. Nevertheless it is a vote of confidence in the districts and the security forces. This is a study in democracy.

Lets see if the fears are justified or not.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Sep 2010 22:30

ramana wrote:Nightwatch comments, 9/9/2010

India-Jammu and Kashmir State: During meeting on 8 September, Prime Minister Singh told Jammu Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) can be partially revoked in six areas. The AFSPA reportedly will be withdrawn from Srinagar, Ganderbal and Budgam in Kashmir region, and Jammu, Samba and Kathua in Jammu region, because they have experienced relatively less violence over the past year.

Comment: The significance of the federal action is to open a half dozen districts (\roughly counties in the US) in each part of Jammu and Kashmir State to normal tourism and commercial activity. It is good news, while reducing the profile and visibility of security forces.

This is a risky step by the Prime Minister in his program to try to restore civil normality in the state, because the announcement makes each district a potential magnet for separatist subversion and violence. Nevertheless it is a vote of confidence in the districts and the security forces. This is a study in democracy.

Lets see if the fears are justified or not.

Why not saar?

This very thing has already occurred in in the north east when AFSPA was relaxed in some places. The authorities are still paying the price for their folly. Will we never learn??

The pig jehadis have seen this very thing happening and gamed their moves and demands accordingly.

Our worthies have willingly fallen into the trap. omar, I can understand because he has a back channel to the pakis but PC???

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2010 22:41

He sees dreams of succeeding MMS.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Sep 2010 22:53

GOI considering to give some dangerous concessions in Kashmir...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 531898.cms

Jagmohan

Sep 08 2010

One of the tragic pointers of Indian history is that more often than not Indians have themselves proved to be their worst enemies. This stands reinforced by what the negative forces in our country did in early 1990.

It should be clear from the analysis of major events connected with Kashmir’s post-1947 history that there is an overwhelming need to learn from each and every lapse and evolve a new framework of thought and action. Unfortunately, no one is attending to this need. With regard to the stone-throwing mobs that are now daily appearing on the streets of most urban centres of the Valley, old attitudes rooted in superficiality and “short-termism” are once again at display. So far, about 69 persons have died. But there is no sign of a sustained crackdown on the ringleaders, financers and those who are spraying the virus of militant fanaticism in the Valley.

What is worse, another “appeasement card” is being put forward in the form of a political package and additional autonomy, without bothering to consider that in the long run such a package and such an autonomy could provide stronger muscle to the forces of subversion and separatism in the Valley. Further, no one is showing any inclination to raise certain basic and pertinent questions in this regard.

Are the Kashmiris, like the citizens of the rest of India, not already free under the Constitution of India? Do they not have all the fundamental rights which individuals in modern liberal democracies enjoy? Has their identity, culture, religion or language been undermined in any way by the constitutional arrangements that have been in operation for the last several decades? How would a common Kashmiri be benefited by changing the nomenclature of chief minister to Prime Minister or of governor to Sadar-e-Riyasat, or by ousting the jurisdiction of Supreme Court, the Election Commission and the Comptroller and Auditor General of India? What would happen if the so-called pre-1952 position is restored and only defence, foreign affairs and communications are kept within the jurisdiction of the Union Parliament/government and all the remaining items are assigned exclusively to the state legislature/government? How would the state government then meet its requirements of finances which at present are provided by the Union government to the tune of 74 per cent of its needs? Could the “nuts and bolts” of objective reality and the need to have smooth and workable relationship between the state and the Union be dispensed with?

To these and allied questions, no satisfactory answers can be provided by the proponents of autonomy and the “political package”. They merely harp on the promises supposed to have been made to Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, forgetting that what matters is not the individual but the state government without whose concurrence nothing was done. They take advantage of the widespread ignorance that prevails in the country about the rather complex manner in which constitutional relations between Jammu and Kashmir and the Union have evolved. They hide the fact that Jammu and Kashmir already enjoys, albeit unjustifiably, far more powers than are available to other states of the Union. They also forget that at the time of the 1975 Kashmir Accord, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi had made it clear that “the clock could not be put back”, and that the “provisions of the Indian Constitution applied to the state of Jammu and Kashmir ‘without adaptation or modification’ were unalterable”.

The only concession made in 1975, in the spirit of bonhomie, by the Government of India was to consider changes in the “adapted and modified” provisions, if a specific proposal in this regard was received from the state government. But neither the government of Sheikh Abdullah nor that of Dr Farooq Abdullah could send any proposal, primarily because the changes earlier made were all necessitated by practical consideration.

The State Autonomy Committee Report (1999), sent to the Union government 24 years after the Kashmir Accord, is nothing but a broad repetition of what was said on behalf of the National Conference in 1975. It ignores the huge volume of water that has since flowed under the bridges of Yamuna and Jhelum, and does not indicate how the changes that are being advocated now would improve the lot of the common man and how the expenditure on the state Five-Year Plans would be met. Nor does it care to explain how certain security and other contingencies would be dealt with? What, for instance, would happen if Article 356 is not applicable and if the state refuses or fails to comply with any requirement of the Union in respect of defence, foreign affairs or communication? Would this not cause an intractable constitutional deadlokck?

The acceptance by the Union government of any of the phoney ideas contained in the aforesaid report would add another blunder to the series of blunders committed in the past, which have so far cost the nation over 50,000 lives, besides several thousand-crores of hard-earned taxpayers’ money.

While it is not likely to make even a slight dent in the criticality of the present situation, it could strengthen the forces of disarray in the Valley, give rise to fresh agitations in other regions of the state and become a precedent for separatists in other part of the country to quote and demand. Even otherwise, the unfortunate history of Jammu and Kashmir in the post-1947 period warns us in no uncertain terms that the decision taken under momentary pressures and on short-term considerations have proved disastrous in the long run. Too many infections have already accumulated in the body politics of Jammu and Kashmir. If we do not have the skill or will to drain them out, let us at least not add more to them.

The need of the hour is that we should make a new beginning, educate our brothers and sisters in Kashmir about the true position in respect of their political, social and cultural freedoms and tell them that we as fellow countrymen have already helped them to the tune of `95,000 crores from 1989-90 to 2009-10, and would continue to discharge our obligations in this respect in future to make them a happy and prosperous community of the Union.

Jagmohan is a former governor of J&K and a former Union minister

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/op-ed/do ... ock-jk-802