J & K news and discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 14 Sep 2010 21:56

AoA !!! Time to IB4TL . May all separatists/terrorists of Kashmir get 72 !!!

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16148
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby SwamyG » 14 Sep 2010 21:59

shiv wrote:I recall a time in Gujarat when some people were killed in a law and order situation. The CM of Gujarat took the rap for that - the PM did not have to say Gujarat is ours.

That is because Gujarat is not considered a disputed territory like J&K. Gujarat does not get a special status in the Indian Union. It is just another evil regular state like the scores of others.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby brihaspati » 14 Sep 2010 22:03

RamaY wrote:^

Then what made our pujyaneeya MMS to comment on the three major issues in next month?
1. Maoist Issue - Isn't this a state issue?
2. Court ruling on Ramjanmabhoomi - Is this not a law-and-order issue?
3. dont remember...

Piskology for piskology sake I guess...


On those issues there is a much greater convergence within - so he can speak freely. Moreover those are issues that are also electorally important within India. They think they know which side those two issues are or should be buttered to keep electoral advantages.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7096
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Muppalla » 14 Sep 2010 22:29

Nothing like east timor or someother earth shattering events are going to happen. More lives will be lost in JK as they love to lose their lives. Nothing much can be discussed about the pyschology of losers who are desperate to lose lives.

Some corrections are happening as we see the drama unfolding. TSP talks, JK package are all pet themes of MMS and they are all dead with this round. For the first time we are seeing armed forces are calling the shots regarding policy decisions. They know better than anyone else in dealing with JK. The consensus seems to be no more use of political and other packages though we hear the noise. One final all party meeting will happen to not have any political package and that's it. Let Omar Abdullah solve the violence part. If he does "hand up" back to glorious days of Jagmohan and Gary Saxena. MMS style shops will wind up.

I have never see a Army Chief like VKSingh in my adulthood, so forthright and blunt when dealing with the politicians in power. Kudos.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23632
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby chetak » 14 Sep 2010 22:50

brihaspati wrote:MMS has to stay away from making clear cut statements if such an internal tussle is going on. He himself will get badly burnt if he leans to any one side. Making such clear and "patriotic" statements now will be seen as inflammatory by his own fellow travelers. He would be blamed for lighting the fire for a liquid that is spontaneously inflmmable any way - the valley brand of islamism that is.


the valley brand of islamism is wahabi sunni. Give it the correct name saar.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2010 23:01

There is a Marathi saying " Just because you have golden knife, Dont stab yourself !"

Needs to be modified to golden scalpel.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby RamaY » 14 Sep 2010 23:14

brihaspati wrote:
RamaY wrote:^

Then what made our pujyaneeya MMS to comment on the three major issues in next month?
1. Maoist Issue - Isn't this a state issue?
2. Court ruling on Ramjanmabhoomi - Is this not a law-and-order issue?
3. dont remember...

Piskology for piskology sake I guess...


On those issues there is a much greater convergence within - so he can speak freely. Moreover those are issues that are also electorally important within India. They think they know which side those two issues are or should be buttered to keep electoral advantages.


B-ji,

I was talking about MMS's legitimacy to speak on JK issue. His only statement on this is - talks (with Pak I presume) are the only solution. He needed the stone pelters support to undo what Mr. Pillai did.

Convergence on Maoism? Just few days ago Pranabda deferred with PC on Mamatadi's claim. We will have a diggi raja to ##$#@ around any day.

Convergence on Ramjanmabhoomi? I am yet to see that. It took 60 long years for Allahabad high court to come to this stage. We have many levels of supreme court to go. Even then it is doubtful that there will be political convergence.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2010 23:20

Lets stick to J&K here.

Anindya
BRFite
Posts: 1539
Joined: 02 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Anindya » 14 Sep 2010 23:34

It is after all the same Kashmiri population who used to put Pandit children at the front of crowds so they got killed first in the early days


Any reference to this? Have been keeping an eye on the Kashmir issue for a while - but, never have heard of something like this.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7008
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Anujan » 14 Sep 2010 23:58

Muppalla wrote: For the first time we are seeing armed forces are calling the shots regarding policy decisions. They know better than anyone else in dealing with JK. The consensus seems to be no more use of political and other packages though we hear the noise. One final all party meeting will happen to not have any political package and that's it.

I have never see a Army Chief like VKSingh in my adulthood, so forthright and blunt when dealing with the politicians in power. Kudos.


Share most of your sentiments except for the bolded part. You are too optimistic. The all-party meet is an attempt to get everybody on board to overrule the Armed forces. Kangress does not want to take them on by themselves.

If all parties come around, Army will be overruled. Else not. There is no consensus yet.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21177
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Prem » 15 Sep 2010 00:07

Anujan,
I guess this will be the test for nationalistic forces in politics and if the armed forces are overruled in such national security threat scenario, then only Almighty can save India from indian politicans and it will require revolution to finish the old order and finish the pending agenda of partition.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Dipanker » 15 Sep 2010 00:10

^
And we know how the left parties, the Mulayams, the Lallus are going to act. I think Congress is backing on them to marginalize the nationalists.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 00:13

All party means need consensus not a majority.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7008
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Anujan » 15 Sep 2010 00:39

Ramana-ji

That is precisely my point. I dont share Muppalla-ji's optimism that the Armed forces opinion has left "political and other packages" dead in the water. On the contrary, the meet is probably to secure support to amend laws to slather army under another layer of bureaucracy. Lets see what happens....

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5829
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby krisna » 15 Sep 2010 00:49

It’s now or never
The grave crisis in Jammu and Kashmir demands a collective national response, and the all-party meeting today is a forum that must help devise a comprehensive consensual strategy for the state, even

First, it must be recognised that today almost the entire Valley has been overwhelmed by a collective expression of rage, led by the youth who were born or grew up during the years of militancy and who are driven by a sense of hopelessness. This is a product largely of our own follies, and our inability to translate the gains of the election in 2008, the most inclusive in J&K’s history, into long-term dividends, and these mistakes have been compounded over the past few months.

Under these circumstances, it would be too much to expect Pakistan, and other anti-India forces not to fish in these troubled waters.

Second, the ‘fire’ in Kashmir can only be doused by a multi-track approach that targets and addresses the people of the state, not individual leaders or parties (separatist or mainstream).

Third, it is essential that we accept that J&K is unique and must be dealt with specially. Its uniqueness is obvious for a variety of historical reasons recognised even by the Supreme Court

The battle, therefore, to win back the hearts and minds of the Kashmiris is critical not just for the strengthening of the ideals that inspired Indian nationhood, but is also central to the war against obscurantism and extremism

If there is acceptance of the above, the all-party meeting must consider the following three-point plan of action.

First, an all-party parliamentary delegation must visit the state at the earliest to carry an on-spot assessment of the situation and meet with as many ‘ordinary’ Kashmiris as possible as well as political leaders, in Srinagar and the countryside. Political leaders have an intuitive ability to a do a quick stakeholder analysis and they must be tasked with working out confidence- and trust-building measures that must be unilaterally implemented by New Delhi.

Second, a special task force must be immediately constituted by the prime minister and dedicated full-time to J&K (headed by a Cabinet minister or by the PM himself). It must be made responsible for monitoring, on a daily basis, the situation in the state, and assisting in governance and developmental activities and other pressing problems in the state and to reduce the ‘trust’ and ‘governance’ deficits.

Third, the all-party meeting must demand that UPA leadership and the government appoint a credible team of negotiators to conduct a political dialogue between the Centre and the people of the state. The dialogue should be as inclusive as possible, and no group or individual must be considered untouchable. No conditions must be attached at the beginning of a dialogue. It is quite obvious that any negotiations the Centre conducts can, in no way, compromise the unity and integrity of India. Even separatists realise this.


The people of J&K, even at the worst of times, have almost always demonstrated reasonableness. They are naturally inclined to travel along the path that leads to peace, prosperity and people’s power. The time has come for our political representatives to remove all the hurdles on this path. Collectively, the Indian nation is indeed capable of achieving what might today seem an impossible task.


Important is those born in 1980 and 1990s are in prime youth. they have to be weaned off from radicals.
discredit and eliminate radicals. send youths to other places for education. lots of opportunities exist in India. Requires to start some employment opportunities-- article 370 is an impediment for industrialists to come to J&K and open shops. Just talks and talks may not help as nothing happens on ground to change the habits of youth.
AFSPA must stay till the violence ends.

anchal
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 01 Aug 2009 16:41

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby anchal » 15 Sep 2010 00:53

Only silver lining is BJP as of now is totally against any change to AFSPA

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_situation-in-j-and-k-alarming-lk-advani_1437969

On the eve of the crucial all-party meeting convened by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to discuss the situation in violence-hit Kashmir, Advani opposed any dilution of the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) or withdrawal of troops, saying it would mean "surrendering before Islamabad's strategy of breaking India's unity".


Then why the charade of all party meet? Is Congress confident of last-minute Ombaba call to all dissenting parties!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 00:59

Every expert wants to channel Central funds to the State and that leaves it in hands of whoever is in power at the State level. And that only bolsters patronage by the party in power. The Abdullah family channelled away a lot of funds(aka loot) in all their years at the helm. The other prominent political families also did their share. In this model Central funds come in whenever there is agitation and thus feeds a vicious cycle.

What about ensuring the Kashmiris have stake in their own development. I see no plans to allow them to create capital and a stake in their own well being. I know about Art 370 etc but how can it be made not an impediment? Can a zero be drawn aorund it by promoting Kashmiri-rest of India owned entities running the show?

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2010 01:09

The only way to get the 'Kashmiri Youth' off the Wahhabi/Azadi bandwagon is to get them out of the state and for them to experience India and feel a part of it.

If the Center really wants to help the youth there, then it would be to provide every Kashmiri Youth the opportunity to do college study outside the J&K state.

For that an admission into some college and a proper stipend would be useful. That is all the Center needs to finance. After 3-4 years a young college graduate will return to J&K and call for the scrapping of Article 370 because it hampers his job opportunities.

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 15 Sep 2010 01:13

J&K: Centre hopes for consensus on talks at all-party meeting

‘Armed Forces Act is not the single-point agenda'


http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/15/stories/2010091558780100.htm

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 15 Sep 2010 01:14

Paaki Govt lectures India on J&K. see The Hindu's first page

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7096
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Muppalla » 15 Sep 2010 01:34

Anujan ji,

My confidence stems from certain patterns that have occured over the past several months.

(1) TSP talks -it was a section of GOI's initiative while there was another section's vehement opposition. The section that opposed made it sure that talk are a no starter.
(2) The home ministry passed the anti-conversion bill (pending since 1976) with more stringent clauses. Though the bill is called something else.
(3) See the Nuke liability bill too. Parliament passed but not the way a section intended it to be.

I am visualizing a chess board of GOI (may be a deliberate one) where one hawkish section is ensuring what is needed for nationalistic discource. So far they haven't lost a battle and I am of the view that this section is firmly with the AFSPA.

On top of the above reasons - it may be the first time that the three chiefs are in opposing tangent with the government regarding AFSPA. I have never seen chiefs coming on live TV with their opposing views. My belief is that they will succeed in their endavor.

Regarding all party meet, they have full support of BJP, I beleive even AKAntony and Chidu(though he is talking about political package etc.). In the final analysis they will do some lip service regarding packages etc. but I am thinking they may not dare to fiddle with AFSPA.

I hope I am right. Otherwise we may see a different India in the future. The political leadership is becoming more and more isolated with a lot of babus at policy and strategy/tactical levels. Unprecedented.

Sudip
BRFite
Posts: 378
Joined: 28 Oct 2008 05:42
Location: Paikhana

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby Sudip » 15 Sep 2010 01:39

RajeshA wrote:The only way to get the 'Kashmiri Youth' off the Wahhabi/Azadi bandwagon is to get them out of the state and for them to experience India and feel a part of it.

If the Center really wants to help the youth there, then it would be to provide every Kashmiri Youth the opportunity to do college study outside the J&K state.

For that an admission into some college and a proper stipend would be useful. That is all the Center needs to finance. After 3-4 years a young college graduate will return to J&K and call for the scrapping of Article 370 because it hampers his job opportunities.


I have seen instances with my own eyes that even this tactic has failed. I did my undergrad in a minority college. I had a lecturer from kashmir. He was in prison for a week or a month for suspicious SMS. He was always aloof and of suspicious character. People used to talk about his open hatred for india. Despite his suspicious track record, finally he got to do a PhD in one of the IITs through the Quality Improvement Program where I happened to follow him as I got admitted my masters too. But as far as I know he still had not changed his opinion and used to stay aloof. So my conclusion is that even despite many governmental efforts their mind-set is not changing.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 01:42

Yes there will be people like that who are bitter. We cannot assume everyone will be like that. Some will be good and many will be bad. And with time it will change.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J & K news and discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 02:06

Meanwhile telegraph reports

PM's plan blockaded

WOW!!! Coming from ABP owned paper its virtual disowning.

New Delhi, Sept. 13: On a day this summer’s nastiest bouts of violence claimed 14 lives in the Kashmir Valley, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh found his peace package blockaded by mounting concerns over the security implications of revoking the armed forces act in some non-border districts.

A three-hour meeting of the cabinet committee on security (CCS) this evening failed to iron out internal discord and ended on the rather anodyne note of issuing another appeal for calm in Kashmir.

On Monday, 14 persons lost their lives in the deadliest day yet of 'azaadi' protests in the Valley, the anger and violence being fanned by an Iranian channel that aired footage of the alleged desecration of the Quran in the US.

In addition to renewing its dialogue offer to “address the issues agitating the minds of the people of J&K, especially the youth”, the CCS also called an all-party meeting on Wednesday on the spiralling crisis.

But having failed to push the initiative through the CCS, the Prime Minister is unlikely to find endorsement from a wider body. The BJP, already a vociferous critic of any bid to tinker with the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), will, on the contrary, demand that the Omar Abdullah government be dismissed for its failure to get a grip on the law and order situation, making the Prime Minister’s predicament even more confounded.

It is not merely the defence forces that have stiffened opposition to any changes to the AFSPA, the Congress, too, is divided.

Former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, for instance, is strongly opposed to any security content in the peace package and has been arguing that the Omar government must be pressured to get a grip on the unrest that has claimed over 80 lives over the past three months.

It is perhaps significant in this context that among the issues the CCS statement promised to address were that of “trust deficit and governance deficit”.

While the Centre has consistently backed Omar through the current crisis, it has been less than pleased with his handling of the situation and positively disappointed with his disconnect with the agitating Kashmiri masses. :mrgreen:

As the peace package remains mired in differences, political pressure is building on Omar who finds himself caught between an incensed constituency and a Centre that is dragging its feet on providing him concessions that he could sell in Kashmir.


{I had surmised that Omarbhai was at the root of the current situation. He was posturing a tough stance against Center to pretend he was independent of the Center by demanding roll back of the AFSPA. Seeing his stance, the Hurrirats jupmed in with sotne throwing and foisted him on his own petard. The sad thing is poor people are dying for this turd's theatrics!}


Omar, sources in the National Conference said, was “angry and upset” that New Delhi had not been able to deliver what he had repeatedly been promised. :((

“We need something to go to the people with, expectations have been raised and when nothing happens, it strengthens the hands of those in Kashmir who say New Delhi is not interested in addressing the aspirations of the people of Kashmir,” a senior National Conference leader told The Telegraph.

{Blackmail by a crooks.}

A measure of Omar’s exasperation was the fact that late tonight he fielded two ministers — Ali Mohammed Sagar and Ghulam Hasan Mir — to attack the Centre for “hurting genuine Kashmiri aspirations by consistently failing to deliver on promises”. :(( :((

Arguing that the Omar government was fighting a “tough battle” against separatist and militant elements in the Valley, an irate Sagar said: “We have the responsibility of leading our people and fulfilling their aspirations. New Delhi is not helping the cause by continuing to be indecisive about announcements that the people of Kashmir have been expecting.”

[i]{And don't you have the responsibility to the nation to not play with fire and indulge in pretend battles? What you and your ilk deserve is to be sent to the mobs for false promises.}{/i]



Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests