Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Aug 2010 13:06

unless we come up with low cost solns to be made in bulk numbers by domestic auto industry, depending on a shaky OFB factory to trot out say 50 BMP2 a year is laughable.

why cannot the stallion be made into a wheeled IFV? all depends on your frame of thinking
- it has a massive ground clearance
- 4 huge wheels and 4 wheel drive with variable air pressure.
- runs on civilian diesel and COTS parts - no going back to some plant in urals pleading for the next lot of lug nuts
- take this chassis and make a MPVish type armour all over it - it will have equal or better protection than M113,
better ground clearance, equal mobility, great road speed and more comfort.
- put some panels on top and a well remotely operated weapons station with a HMG and AGL & thermal sights
- stick in BMS and AC
- a remotely operated and loaded mount in back to fire ATGMs

make 1000s of these and convert infantry divs to motor rifle divs. put TELCO , M & M, AL and MUL on the job
to churn these out and variants for mortar firing and dedicated NAMICA-truck.

watch the pakis crap more and more. so long as external powers are used to source bulk eqpt, they know corruption,
geopolitical games and lack of funds will always gate our response...they will laugh as OFB goofs up and HIT taxila churns out M113 and khalids

Fine....put our domestic auto industry and mining machinery industry to work ...its 100x bigger and privatized

we need a Nano/M800 type response to break this paradigm.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Aug 2010 13:56

I think Rahul M and I had discussion on similar lines. And argument was advanced that we can use the TATRA Chassis for this. But this is the way ahead, IMO. Otherwise, we'd never be able to Mechanize the Infantry.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Aug 2010 19:30

even the old czech OT64 SKOT india had (which units and how many?) seems to be a mod of the basic tatra design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OT-64_SKOT

I am sure we can collab with someone like tatra who already have tieup with BEML to come up with a modern variant of this at a reasonable cost vs stryker type uber-chi stuff.

http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/OT64_Blac ... kot020.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... OLOS_1.jpg

a sexy series of boxy looking modular vehicles could be built with mission packs plugged into bays on the side and
from the top.

my first priority is a VL-Nag shooter with 16 rounds Tor style in a protected magazine housing with sliding roof.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 18 Aug 2010 19:22

Medvedev, who has met Zardari four times in nearly two years, regretted that there has been no progress in bilateral economic cooperation.

"I hope that we will be able to continue discussing this issue now in terms of bilateral economic cooperation and four-party cooperation in a number of projects," Medvedev was quoted as saying by RIA Novosti.

During his bilateral parleys with Medvedev, Zardari was accompanied by his Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar and Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir.

Link

Russians "Friends" indeed

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Aug 2010 04:40

Pak's Shahbaz Air Base 'Controlled' by US: Lashari

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Aug 2010 05:50

Pak Floods: PM Calls Gilani; Offers More Help

Last week, Minister of External Affairs S M Krishna had called on his Pakistani counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi and offered USD 5 million in aid for flood relief work.

With Pakistan dilly-dallying on taking USD five million in aid for flood relief work from India, the US has said politics should have no role in disaster response and it "expects" Islamabad to accept the assistance.

"In terms of responding to a disaster, politics should play no role. You have a country (India) that's willing to help (Pakistan), and... We expect that Pakistan will accept," US State Department spokesman P J Crowley said in Washington.

A statement from the Pakistani Premier's office in Islamabad said Gilani "availed the opportunity to reiterate Pakistan's keen desire to have friendly, cooperative and good neighbourly relations with India".

NOw WHY in the world should India still be interested in giving aid to TSP, when it knows very well where that money will go is beyond my understanding

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2010 06:49

GD, Heard that massa flight controllers are there to monitor the solas so no chance of solo flights of ghazawa.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Aug 2010 08:12

So, what is the toll of Paki mil bases due to floods?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2010 09:34

krisna overlayed the bases on a TSP map of flooded region. It is in the reference material thread in GDF.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2010 09:36

x-posted...

krisna wrote:
ramana wrote:Krisna, Thanks. Please put an a/c symbol in green next to them. also can you look for TSPA regimental centers and put crossed swords in green?

1) Maroon colour= Major TSPAF airbases. P=Peshawar R=Risalpur K=Kamra(Minhas)M=Mianwali C=Chaklala(Rawalpindi) S=Sargodha J=Shorkut(Rafiqui in Jhang district)Q=Quetta Ka=Karachi( Masroor and Faisal, Ja=Jacobabad)

2) Green colour= TSPA Infantry regiment centres - M=Mardan in khyber pakhtunwa, centre of Punjab regiment, At= Attock district in Punjab province has Azad Kashmir regiment, Ab=Abbotabad in KH has Baloch and Frontier Force regiment, H=Hyderabad has Sindh regiment and S=Skardu has Northern Light infantry regiment.
List from TSPA regiments
Mardan district is just north of Nowshera, Attock district is just north of Mianwali and has Indus river flowing thru it.
Abbotabad has 2 regiments. Hyderabad is near Indus river(kotri barrage) is within its area.

Ramanaji - I could not add the a/c and crossed swords as it will make it very clumsy as lot of TSPA Regiments and PAF bases are clustered around the Tarbela Dam area in the map.(Honestly speaking I dont know- still learning the basics)
Any suggestions welcome.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Aug 2010 12:42

ramana,,
Any idea on SSG units? Any of em are based here?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 20 Aug 2010 14:09

SSG has a base next to the Tarbela Dam (this is where the suicide bomber blew himself in). Plus, they have presence in Attock and HQ is in Cherat.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Aug 2010 15:02

^^^ Thanks

Pakis say no threat to nuke plants

On Thursday, 19 August, the Pakistan Nuclear Regulatory Authority replied that “All the nuclear installations in Pakistan such as the nuclear power plants and research reactors are located at sites which have not been affected by floods. Moreover, all radioactive sources in the flood affected areas have been verified to be safe and secure”.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2010 20:22

chackojoseph wrote:^^^ Thanks

Pakis say no threat to nuke plants

On Thursday, 19 August, the Pakistan Nuclear Regulatory Authority replied that “All the nuclear installations in Pakistan such as the nuclear power plants and research reactors are located at sites which have not been affected by floods. Moreover, all radioactive sources in the flood affected areas have been verified to be safe and secure”.

Must be maal. Power reactors are sited to account for natural hazards. cant say the same with regard to other sources.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 Aug 2010 14:15

ramana wrote: Must be maal. Power reactors are sited to account for natural hazards. cant say the same with regard to other sources.

They are very quite about losses in fauj, nuke and other strategic assets.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Aug 2010 14:34

From my reading of maps, Wah & Golra are possibly 'severely flooded'. Wah has a nuclear weapons assembly plant and Golra has an enrichment plant. Going further south, both Khushab and Chashma should also be equally severely affected. Khushab has a Pu production reactor along with a Tritium facility. In Chashma there is a Pu extraction plant from the spent fuel rods of the Chinese power reactor. Further South, but not very far, the missile production facility at Tarwanah might just have escaped the flood fury. Multan which houses a Heavy Water reactor might have also escaped damage because it is situated on the left bank of Chenab.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 Aug 2010 14:53

True. The Paki aatomic aagency must be talking just as rammana says "maal." Mac-hine mein paani gayya to chuuti. It will be a setback for long time.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 22 Aug 2010 06:33

From the horses mouth.. US Air force base in PAK.

Shahbaz air base 'controlled' by US: Pak health secretary

Pakistan's Shahbaz air force base in southern Sindh province, which is home to the country's newest F-16 jets, is "controlled by the US", a senior official has said, triggering a denial from America which described the remarks as "completely false."

Health secretary Khushnood Lashari made the stunning claim about the Shahbaz airbase in Jacobabad area during an appearance before the Standing Committee on Health of the Senate or upper house of Parliament yesterday. Lashari said the relief operations in flood-hit areas of Jacobabad could not be conducted from the airbase because of this reason.

"Health relief operations are not possible in the flood-affected areas of Jacobabad because the airbase is with the United States," he said answering a question from a member of the committee.

There have been unconfirmed reports in the past that the Shahbaz airbase is used by the US to operate drones which have been targeting militants in Pakistan's restive tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.

Senator Semeen Yusuf Siddiqui, a member of the Senate panel, was quoted by the media as saying, "It is very unfortunate that Americans can launch a drone attack from Shahbaz airbase but the government is helpless even in using the country's base for relief operations."

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 23 Aug 2010 02:42

wut's the point of posting news that was posted a few posts up on the same thread??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2010 21:32

X-posted.. Very good work JamesB

JamesB posted in TSP thread.....

--------
I have looked at the all major Pakistani airbases through google earth, it is with deep regret that I say that none of them got affected due to floods. I have posted below the pictures of airbases most nearest to the Indus river which were most likely to have got affected but they are not affected. I have also made an overlap satellite flood situation images from NASA earth observatory as of August 11 to get a perspective.

Sukkur Air base (not a major airbase to speak of)

Mianwali Air base (a major PAF air base)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Aug 2010 08:21

Just a heads-up folks.

My review of the book by Air Cmde Sajad "Nosey" Haider is online on BR
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/index ... cle&id=812

Haider is known in India as the man who led the 1965 PAF attack on Pathankot - a raid that has been documented in Jagan's book

The story is also on BR
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... ankot.html

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 25 Aug 2010 16:09

ramana wrote:JamesB posted in TSP thread.....I have looked at the all major Pakistani airbases through google earth, it is with deep regret that I say that none of them got affected due to floods.

PAF bases mostly are ex RAF bases built post 1919 war and post 1932 IAF establishment for watch and ward duties on the NW frontier, and the British were quite meticulous in mapping the Indus watershed, drainge divide and drainage basins - as well as other Punjab rivers - before establishing those bases. Same goes for Army Cantonments.

nits · Post by **nits** » 06 Sep 2010 17:15

New PAF F-16s moved to air base near Quetta due to floods

Three of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s newest acquisitions Block 52 F-16 jet fighters previously stationed at the Shahbaz airbase near Jacobabad – have been moved to the Samungli airbase near Quetta, sources told The Express Tribune on Saturday. The Shahbaz base was under the threat of being flooded in August. The exact date on which the jets were flown to Quetta could not be ascertained

.

nits · Post by **nits** » 06 Sep 2010 17:22

USS McInerney has been turned over to the Pakistani navy.

Shortly before the sun set Tuesday, the USS McInerney was no more.Within a few minutes, the PNS Alamgir floated in its place.The Pakistani navy is interested in seven of the U.S. frigates, although Congress has not yet approved any more of the transfers.

However, many of this class of ships being phased out will be sold or given to partner nations.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Sep 2010 07:10

The flood induced bonanza continues. The Air Force of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan scoops up 10 second hand Alouette III helicopters for free from the Swiss:

Swiss give helicopters to Pakistan

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Sep 2010 23:49

arun wrote:The flood induced bonanza continues. The Air Force of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan scoops up 10 second hand Alouette III helicopters for free from the Swiss:

Swiss give helicopters to Pakistan

it's called giving alms to the poor and needy..the beggars that they are, they'll snap up anything if given to them for free. The whole nation of Pakistan is now basically begging for aid, weapons, anything..I can bet that even with all the destruction due to the floods and the hit their economy has taken, the beggars will not stop any of their weapons procurement programs which require annual payments to the tune of hundreds of millions if not billions of $.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Sep 2010 14:29

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Gilles Dorronsoro of the Carnegie Endowment for Peace on the Islamic terrorist supporting habits of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Excerpt:

Worsening Outlook in Afghanistan

Gilles Dorronsoro
Q&A, SEPTEMBER 9, 2010 …………….

What role is Pakistan playing in the war in Afghanistan? Can the United States trust the Pakistani government and military?

It’s clear that the Pakistanis are still supporting the Taliban. This was known well before WikiLeaks disclosed secret documents detailing supposed links between the Pakistani military and Taliban.

In February, the Taliban’s operational commander, Abdul Ghani Baradar, was arrested in Karachi. As the second-ranking Taliban official after Mullah Muhammad Omar, the arrest was heralded as Islamabad’s new devotion to eradicating the Taliban and fighting terrorism. But the arrest was not a change in strategy, it was designed to cut off secret peace talks between Kabul and Baradar that left out Pakistan. The Taliban’s connections with the Pakistani military persist.

U.S. policy on Pakistan, however, is disconnected from reality. Washington continues to funnel money to the Pakistani government to move against the Afghan Taliban—but this is yesterday’s policy. It’s far too late for the Pakistani army to reverse course. And even if Washington got what it wanted and high-level Taliban leaders were arrested, it would not kill the insurgency. The Taliban are too strong and the remaining players in Afghanistan will refuse to negotiate.

In fact, if Islamabad loses influence over the Afghan Taliban, it will be a loss for Washington. Instead of trying to disconnect the Pakistani government from the Taliban, the United States should use the links to start talking. The United States must start using the situation to its own advantage.

Read it All

yogi · Post by **yogi** » 15 Sep 2010 10:59

deleted

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 Sep 2010 11:02

^^^Wrong thread. Please post in Indian Army Thread.

nits · Post by **nits** » 17 Sep 2010 16:56

China Delivers Third F-22P Sword Class Frigate “PNS SAIF” to pakistani navy

China has delivered the third F-22P frigates class frigate to the Pakistan Navy on Wednesday. This ship which belongs to the Sword Class series is named PNS SAIF.akistan Navy can use this new frigate for long range surface to surface strikes, anti-submarine warfare and limited air defense against the Indian Navy.

PNS SAIF is armed with eight C-802A long range surface-to-surface Anti-Ship missiles to battle against enemy ships, eight ready to fire FM-90 surface-to-air missiles to counter air threats alone with reloads and two triple torpedo tubes. PNS SAIF is using the Chinese version of the Russian AK-176M 76.2 mm as its main gun. Two 30 mm seven barrel gattling guns also called 730B Close -in-Weapon System (CIWS) are used to act as last defense of the ship against air and surface threats.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Sep 2010 20:48

PNS Saif?

Did they name it after Siaf Ali Khan? What naming scheme do the Pakis follow ( other than the standard Afghan invaders/plunderers)?

nits · Post by **nits** » 17 Sep 2010 21:46

sum wrote:PNS Saif?

Did they name it after Siaf Ali Khan? What naming scheme do the Pakis follow ( other than the standard Afghan invaders/plunderers)?

On a lighter note - we should have a Karina Submarine in that case

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Sep 2010 22:00

sum, saif is a type of sword.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Sep 2010 22:03

Thanks for the clarification..

So, Paki naming convention is purely Quran related or do they branch off to include places, older Paki leaders etc?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 22:39

And Islamist thugs like Babur, Timur, Aurangzeb etc.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Sep 2010 23:04

it's mostly terms related to 'their' history although they do use other terms from time to time. there was PNS hangor (shark) for instance. some have been named after places (khyber). the F-22P's are named after swords. most are however arabic/quranic terms.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 18 Sep 2010 03:16

ramana wrote:And Islamist thugs like Babur, Timur, Aurangzeb etc.

lol.. glad IN does not choose names from Indian leaders.

A "Vajpayee" or "MMS" class destroyer will be too much to bear for its sailors.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 21 Sep 2010 06:09

ya Allah,
Pak China cooperation in building submarines, bigger ships war identified: Admiral Noman

After successful completion of construction of three F-22 P Frigates in China, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir said that Pakistan has identified to China the cooperation in the field of construction of submarine, bigger war ships, acquiring modern weapons and equipments. “We have the history of cooperation in the Navy with China like we have cooperation in all other fields”, said Noman Bashir while talking to media here at a reception on Saturday evening in which Ambassador of Pakistan to China Masood Khan was also present.
The CNS said that Pakistan Navy has already taken over three Frigates and the fourth one is being constructed with Chinese cooperation in Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works and hoped that like the three frigates, the construction of fourth ship in Karachi will be completed ahead of schedule.
“ We will not stop here and this cooperation will continue”, said Admiral Noman Bashir while replying to a question.
He said that during his meetings with Chinese side, he had identified areas including building of submarines, as so far we had not entered into joint construction of submarines.
This is one of areas Pakistan would now like to explore, he noted.
He said that Pakistan also like to go for construction of bigger ships with cooperation of China.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 21 Sep 2010 08:50

^^ This is something of a mixed blessing. I think the Indian Navy would rather that the Pakistanis get "Made in China" submarines than French/German Submarines any day of the week.

Besides, having latest Chinese gear in India's backyard gives the Indian military intelligence guys a nice way to test out Chinese submarine's acoustic abilities and determine their capabilities as well. Besides it would be much easier for RAW to get the classified low-down on these vessels by paying off a Pakistani than from some Chinaman.

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 21 Sep 2010 10:16

This is Alarming development. This could be the reverse engineering of the French augosta class submarines, since pakis already have the drawyings of the same. The pand gets access to technologies while TSP gets a few renamed subs chinees augosta for lesser price.

The Panda is effectively using the TSP as a proxy to gain access to modern technologies.