People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 18 Sep 2010 08:39

Sure, I personally agree with you two on this point. In Southeast Asia, Vietnam will be the leader in long run. In fact I like the country, this year alone I have visited there twice.

In fact, through the history, the north part, i.e., Chinese character area, always dominates the east Asia. I mean China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam, these chopstick using countries are too different from the south east countries who traditionally use their bare hands to eat. We are all culturally northerners, in history if we don't work hard today, the whole family will not survive the coming winter.

And pls remember, blood and culture is heavier than you expected.

A Japanese will always tell an Indian, he like more India than China. And a Chinese will speak just the same thing. The most hated countries in China are Korea and Japan; the most hated countries in Japan, Korea and China; and the most hated countries in Korea, Japan and China.

However the trade, tourism, i.e. the real money, will just tell a very different story. A simple fact is, Japan-China trade is about 30 times of Japan-India trade. I don't bother to search the Vietnam and Korea trade data since I don't expect any significant difference. The citizens of the three countries visit each other in millions every year.

As a Chinese, I think I just get too much welcoming kindness in Vietnam. And on every Vietnamese TV channel, Chinese TV dramas are more than half. The local people have similar faces, albeit a little bit darker, eat similar food, albeit a little bit spicier, and speak similar languages with 70% of their vocabulary was from Chinese originally.

As another friend on this forum has claimed, Vietnam is the only country in Southeast Asia where Chinese cultural influence is heavier than the Indian influence, traditionally.

surinder wrote:
Purush wrote: EDIT: The Vietnamese people I've met here are among the smartest and most hardworking people I've seen. In the long term once their economic problems are fixed and standard of living is raised, I predict that VN and not Indon/Thai/SG/MY will become the ASEAN regional power. After all, they defeated 3 'superpowers' in the span of 30 years and never gave up fighting for their homeland even under much worse conditions. They are survivors, and good ones at that. It will do immense good for India to have VN as a solid, reliable ally in ASEAN.
Spot on.

Vietnamese have that wierd boldness and courage about them in daily work that only geniunce warriors carry. This usually translates to economic success pretty easily. This is a country to watch out for.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 18 Sep 2010 11:09

The most hated countries in China are Korea and Japan; the most hated countries in Japan, Korea and China; and the most hated countries in Korea, Japan and China.

Thanks for the tip. And the most hatred country in Vietnam would be? Obviously, China i guess.

As another friend on this forum has claimed, Vietnam is the only country in Southeast Asia where Chinese cultural influence is heavier than the Indian influence, traditionally.

Without saying explicitly, what Pakistan to India is the same as Vietnam to China. Yes, we have to double our efforts there.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 18 Sep 2010 11:45

wrdos wrote:As a Chinese, I think I just get too much welcoming kindness in Vietnam. And on every Vietnamese TV channel, Chinese TV dramas are more than half. The local people have similar faces, albeit a little bit darker, eat similar food, albeit a little bit spicier, and speak similar languages with 70% of their vocabulary was from Chinese originally.

But but but Vietnamese views are dissimilar

anonamese
Warning : To all chinese people worldwide,especially the MAINLANDERS. Chinese people/tourists are not welcome in Vietnam or in our Pho restaurants. If you despise my advice and do it anyways make sure you speak english or vietnamese. The consequences for speaking chinese; you will get your asses kick by the people in Vietnam and our chefs will spit in your foods. My advice is stick with your egg noodle soup and eat your dim sum. Leave our pho, spring rolls, PARACEL & SPRATLY islands alone!

http://www.youtube.com/user/chinkratfor ... 720C17F4A7

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Sep 2010 12:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbJTnPMBpkw

Social engineering being done

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 18 Sep 2010 14:00

Everywhere, there are extremists, Vietnam is sure not an exception.

I am very familiar with Vietnam and have visited quite a few cities over there. The truth is very different.

In fact, I didn't like VN in the old days, it was the bright smile and kindly reception I got in VN changed my attitude towards the country.

BTW, pho and spring rolls were from China too.

Raghavendra wrote:
wrdos wrote:As a Chinese, I think I just get too much welcoming kindness in Vietnam. And on every Vietnamese TV channel, Chinese TV dramas are more than half. The local people have similar faces, albeit a little bit darker, eat similar food, albeit a little bit spicier, and speak similar languages with 70% of their vocabulary was from Chinese originally.

But but but Vietnamese views are dissimilar
anonamese
Warning : To all chinese people worldwide,especially the MAINLANDERS. Chinese people/tourists are not welcome in Vietnam or in our Pho restaurants. If you despise my advice and do it anyways make sure you speak english or vietnamese. The consequences for speaking chinese; you will get your asses kick by the people in Vietnam and our chefs will spit in your foods. My advice is stick with your egg noodle soup and eat your dim sum. Leave our pho, spring rolls, PARACEL & SPRATLY islands alone!
http://www.youtube.com/user/chinkratfor ... 720C17F4A7

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 18 Sep 2010 14:20

dont get me wrong, wrdos .. but your post echoes the indo - pak relationship to an indian. let me explain !
"Everywhere, there are extremists, Vietnam is sure not an exception."
Yep .. We say that about Pak, as well !

"I am very familiar with Vietnam and have visited quite a few cities over there. The truth is very different.
In fact, I didn't like VN in the old days, it was the bright smile and kindly reception I got in VN changed my attitude towards the country."
Yep .. Indians who have visited Pakistan rave about the welcome they receive too.

But the relationship is fraught; there are disputes and not all of them are historical - there are new wounds, inevitable due to China's rise and Vietnam's seeking counter weights to their influence. Its doubtful that Vietnam would throw themselves at India the way Pakistan lays itself bare to any and every country which courts it. But India must find influence where it finds it. Unfortunately, its playing catch up late

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 18 Sep 2010 17:44

Chinese hold anti-Japan protests over boat dispute

As some chanted "Wipe out the Japanese devils!" and stamped on Japanese flags, China's Foreign Ministry called for calm.

Ever-present anti-Japanese sentiment in China has been inflamed in recent weeks by Japan's arrest of a Chinese captain after his fishing boat collided with two Japanese coast guard vessels in waters near an island group claimed by both Tokyo and Beijing. Japan has returned the boat and its crew but holds the captain. China has demanded his release.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 19 Sep 2010 00:24

Chinese military

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 19 Sep 2010 00:48

Oh just as well viet nam came into the picture, PM is attending the ASEAN-India summit in Viet nam in a few days. Along with trips to Japan and Malaysia. This is before obama turns up here. He is skipping the farce in NYC ahead of the ASEAN-India summit.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 19 Sep 2010 02:16

^^ Wow! The length Chinese will go to keep their neck straight.

naren · Post by **naren** » 19 Sep 2010 05:51

^^^ that is advanced acupuncture technique onree.

IB4CD (In before chicommie drone

)

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 19 Sep 2010 11:01

Karan Dixit wrote:^^ Wow! The length Chinese will go to keep their neck straight.

That's a practice used in China for decades now, pretty common knowledge.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 19 Sep 2010 11:49

^^The perils of being a footsoldier for an Authoritarian government which is consumed by extreme paranoia and insecurity.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Sep 2010 19:16

The PRC is stoking the fire:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11363024

China suspends top-level exchanges with Japan in protest at a ship captain's detention near disputed islands, marking a fresh deterioration of ties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11340220

"China 'moves drilling equipment' into disputed waters
The Chinese fishing vessel being led into a Japanese port 8 September 2010 Tensions have been strained over the arrest of the captain of a Chinese trawler in disputed waters

Japan says China has shipped drilling equipment to a disputed gas field in the East China Sea, fuelling diplomatic tensions between the Asian giants."

If the recent events don't wake the Japanese and SKoreans into a new security paradigm including India, nothing will. It's also a powerful incentive for us to really focus on the strategic threat posed by the PRC.

We have to shake off the suspicion of being played and realize that it is not something engineered by the US for its own purposes.

GOI really has to think boldly and lead the way in forging this new South/East/North Asian security architecture. Military interoperability and joint logistics capability not just babu-talk

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Sep 2010 19:22

The pins are for H&D purposes only. To show the PLA as the most TFTA in PRC.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 20 Sep 2010 07:33

Taiwan's NSB under attack fron China....
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003483348

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Sep 2010 08:09

India to engage Chinese military as influence expands
Excerpts

According to many analysts, China's military which, unlike most military organisations, also shapes (its) foreign policy, has begun to exert an increasing influence over policy decisions. Yet, Indian officials say they have few avenues to engage with the PLA, and warn that a lack of understanding over the PLA's strategic intentions has become an increasing source of mistrust in the relationship.

Indian officials say that while there is a need for broader and more regular engagement with the PLA on foreign policy issues, their efforts to expand contact had, so far, “come up against a brick wall.” At present, India's only regular access to the PLA is through the defence attaché in the Embassy in Beijing, who acts as a conduit between New Delhi and the PLA.

The PLA is unlike any other military organisation. It is not apolitical – it has an influential political department that also comes up with policies, though is secretive about its functions. It also exists outside the purview of the government, serving the Communist Party and not the State.

Often, the PLA's policy considerations contradict those of the government. For instance, while the government may see benefits in engaging with India on climate change and trade, for the PLA, the border dispute will always be a primary consideration, as protecting China's sovereignty and territorial integrity is its top priority. Hence, even if ties are warming up in other areas, the PLA would still put forward a policy recommendation, such as refusing a visa to a visiting General, to push its own interests. In recent months, analysts say, the PLA's considerations have begun to increasingly influence China's foreign policy, whether towards the United States, its Southeast Asian neighbours across the South China Sea, or India.

GoI or Indian think tanks should not give the above as an excuse to send somebody else in the place of Lt. Gen. Jaswal.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Sep 2010 09:32

China and Japan Escalate Standoff Over Fishing Captain

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/world ... japan.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Sep 2010 10:57

This is a book review but is relevant here

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... ncy-theory

The Chinese and Indian economies often elicit breathless admiration from commentators. In fact, domestic deficiencies and regional tensions mean that the rise of China and India is hardly assured.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 20 Sep 2010 12:00

Cosmo_R wrote:The PRC is stoking the fire:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11363024

China suspends top-level exchanges with Japan in protest at a ship captain's detention near disputed islands, marking a fresh deterioration of ties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11340220

"China 'moves drilling equipment' into disputed waters
The Chinese fishing vessel being led into a Japanese port 8 September 2010 Tensions have been strained over the arrest of the captain of a Chinese trawler in disputed waters

Japan says China has shipped drilling equipment to a disputed gas field in the East China Sea, fuelling diplomatic tensions between the Asian giants."

If the recent events don't wake the Japanese and SKoreans into a new security paradigm including India, nothing will. It's also a powerful incentive for us to really focus on the strategic threat posed by the PRC.

We have to shake off the suspicion of being played and realize that it is not something engineered by the US for its own purposes.

GOI really has to think boldly and lead the way in forging this new South/East/North Asian security architecture. Military interoperability and joint logistics capability not just babu-talk

China has no territorial dispute with South Korea. Japan, on the other hand, does, over a very similar island annexed by Japan during its imperialist days. In fact, it was only a few years ago when the dispute between them escalated to the point of SK considering a complete culture ban(movies, music, etc.) of Japan. Thus, I wouldn't be so sure that SK will support Japan on this issue. Besides, it's not like China is the only one escalating this issue, both sides are at fault. The latest round of Chinese escalations was spurred by Japan's decision to continue to hold the captain of the Chinese ship without charge, past its 9/18 deadline. Of course, the newspaper article only mentioned that in passing, as if it had no bearing on Chinese actions.

And don't kid yourself about the GOI leading some sort of coalition against China, it can't even lead Sri Lanka or Nepal and now you expect it to reach out to Japan?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 20 Sep 2010 12:21

DavidD wrote: And don't kid yourself about the GOI leading some sort of coalition against China, it can't even lead Sri Lanka or Nepal and now you expect it to reach out to Japan?

That might be one P.O.V.
To me it seems logical and also that the people who oppose it have something else in mind.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 20 Sep 2010 12:24

SSridhar wrote:India to engage Chinese military as influence expands
Excerpts
According to many analysts, China's military which, unlike most military organisations, also shapes (its) foreign policy, has begun to exert an increasing influence over policy decisions. Yet, Indian officials say they have few avenues to engage with the PLA, and warn that a lack of understanding over the PLA's strategic intentions has become an increasing source of mistrust in the relationship.

Indian officials say that while there is a need for broader and more regular engagement with the PLA on foreign policy issues, their efforts to expand contact had, so far, “come up against a brick wall.” At present, India's only regular access to the PLA is through the defence attaché in the Embassy in Beijing, who acts as a conduit between New Delhi and the PLA.
The PLA is unlike any other military organisation. It is not apolitical – it has an influential political department that also comes up with policies, though is secretive about its functions. It also exists outside the purview of the government, serving the Communist Party and not the State.
Often, the PLA's policy considerations contradict those of the government. For instance, while the government may see benefits in engaging with India on climate change and trade, for the PLA, the border dispute will always be a primary consideration, as protecting China's sovereignty and territorial integrity is its top priority. Hence, even if ties are warming up in other areas, the PLA would still put forward a policy recommendation, such as refusing a visa to a visiting General, to push its own interests. In recent months, analysts say, the PLA's considerations have begun to increasingly influence China's foreign policy, whether towards the United States, its Southeast Asian neighbours across the South China Sea, or India.
GoI or Indian think tanks should not give the above as an excuse to send somebody else in the place of Lt. Gen. Jaswal.

Stark similarities between TSPA, Burma's Junta (where elections are going to be held) and PLA. All of them want Power but without responsibility that comes with it.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Sep 2010 20:53

X Posted from the International Nuclear watch thread.

P.R. China seems hell bent on cocking a snook at the Nuclear Supplier Group, of which she is also a member, in order to supply nuclear reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Reuters quoting a VP working for China National Nuclear Corp (CNNC) :

China in talks to export Pakistan bigger nuke plant -CNNC

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2010 09:07

Jade From China’s West Surpasses Gold in Value

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/world ... 1jade.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2010 09:18

Cliches of the Century
Ten easy ways to illustrate China vs. India -- and miss the point entirely.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... he_century

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2010 09:26

China's maritime aggression should be wake-up call to Japan

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2 ... l_to_japan

At the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Forum meeting in July, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi's jaw-dropping lecture to Asian ministers -- and the U.S. secretary of state -- that other countries were obstreperous to contest China's unilateral claim to international waters and island chains in the South China Sea still rankles with leaders who were present. Particularly galling, according to the foreign minister of one major power at the meeting, was Foreign Minister Yang's reminder that Southeast Asian states were "small countries" who depended on trade with China for their prosperity, while China was a "large country." There was therefore little chance of equality in their relations, Yang suggested. China's neighbors simply would have to take that asymmetry -- and, he added pointedly, their economic dependence on the China market -- into account before "internationalizing" their dispute with Beijing over competing maritime claims.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 21 Sep 2010 10:03

Discretion would normally dictate that one picks battles to win before pursuing other contests. China is engaged in belligerence on several fronts-Japan, Vietnam, ASEAN, India, Taiwan as far afield as Philipines. This when Eastern Turkestan has seen bloodshed and more repression (2009) and Tibet remains a garrison (post 2008 riots). Internal disturbances are being reported in even the China press. Cities are lying empty with others unlivable secondary to pollution of air,water, land and food. City dwellers can't afford apartments, the economy has slowed over two years (trade figures look good due to stockpiling of commodities), the stock market is a casino for which banks continue to lend, property values are a bubble. Its main market is undergoing a recession in every thing but name, where politicians will be forced into protectionism and in fact repatriation of jobs.

This is akin to Japan's lost decade fraught with Mao's Great Leap. It may be that China recognises that it is at an apex in relative strength- it is almost certainly headed for a significant slow down, whilst India, for example, will expand in the coming decade as China itself did from about 1997-2007.It may be trying to leverage the current asymmetry to its long term advantage.

India needs to batten the hatches and ride out China's defiance. India should be aware that the economic disparity is never again likely to be as great as it is now-call China's bluff.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 21 Sep 2010 10:09

^ +1.Totally agree.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 21 Sep 2010 10:25

sanjaykumar wrote:
India needs to batten the hatches and ride out China's defiance. India should be aware that the economic disparity is never again likely to be as great as it is now-call China's bluff.

Strategy for the Rise of India:
Wait for China to fail.

You can write a list of Indian problems like this too. Maybe it reflects a certain attitude, but I see these as problems that China need to deal with. Where as you see them as problems that can not be solved. (Hence the collapse of China in the near future is almost a certainty)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Sep 2010 10:54

China offering even bigger n-plants to Pakistan
Either China is cocking a snook at NSG or there is complicity.

China's State-run nuclear energy firm is in talks to set up a one gigawatt nuclear power plant in Pakistan, officials said on Monday, indicating that China would proceed with its nuclear cooperation with Pakistan regardless of renewed international concerns over non-proliferation.

Qiu Jiangang, vice-president of the China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC), told a meeting in Beijing the State-run firm was in talks to build the plant, which would be its biggest ever operation in Pakistan. “Both sides are in discussions over the CNNC exporting a one GW nuclear plant to Pakistan,” the Reuters news agency quoted him as saying.

While China has not yet sought an exemption from the NSG, leaving the status of the deal unclear, Monday's announcement suggested China was likely to proceed with civilian nuclear engagement with Pakistan on a much larger scale.

Mr. Qiu also confirmed that the CNNC had signed contracts to build the two 300 MW plants, Chashma-3 and Chashma-4.

The CNNC has already agreed to build two reactors, the 325 MW Chashma-1, which started operating in 2000, and Chashma-2, which will be completed next year.

While the Chinese government has, as yet, not confirmed any of the three recent deals, its Foreign Ministry said in a statement in June that China's nuclear cooperation with Pakistan strictly followed the guidelines of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

The government has also stressed that its cooperation was entirely for peaceful purposes.

The Chinese government has not made clear whether it would seek an exemption from the NSG before proceeding with the new deals.

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari, during a July visit to Beijing, told Chinese President Hu Jintao that it was in China's interest to continue its civilian nuclear engagement, regardless of international concerns, to help Pakistan address its “yawning” gap between power supply and demand and in the interests of regional stability.

The CNNC official's announcement at a seminar on Monday came just as Pakistan's Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Norman Bashir held talks with Chinese Defence Minister Liang Guanglie, and called for the two countries to expand military relations.

Admiral Bashir was in China to mark the completion of construction of three F-22 frigates, which China has built for the Pakistani Navy.

A fourth will be built in Pakistan. He called for Chinese cooperation for the construction of submarines and “bigger warships”, and said the “present geo-political situation” and “the environment around” Pakistan and China demanded “further strengthening” of defence ties.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 21 Sep 2010 11:50

sanjaykumar wrote:Discretion would normally dictate that one picks battles to win before pursuing other contests. China is engaged in belligerence on several fronts-Japan, Vietnam, ASEAN, India, Taiwan as far afield as Philipines. This when Eastern Turkestan has seen bloodshed and more repression (2009) and Tibet remains a garrison (post 2008 riots). Internal disturbances are being reported in even the China press. Cities are lying empty with others unlivable secondary to pollution of air,water, land and food. City dwellers can't afford apartments, the economy has slowed over two years (trade figures look good due to stockpiling of commodities), the stock market is a casino for which banks continue to lend, property values are a bubble. Its main market is undergoing a recession in every thing but name, where politicians will be forced into protectionism and in fact repatriation of jobs.

This is akin to Japan's lost decade fraught with Mao's Great Leap. It may be that China recognises that it is at an apex in relative strength- it is almost certainly headed for a significant slow down, whilst India, for example, will expand in the coming decade as China itself did from about 1997-2007.It may be trying to leverage the current asymmetry to its long term advantage.

India needs to batten the hatches and ride out China's defiance. India should be aware that the economic disparity is never again likely to be as great as it is now-call China's bluff.

You could've written something similar 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 30, about China, about India, or about America...you get my point.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 21 Sep 2010 12:15

I would say complicity. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Sep 2010 15:36

DavidD wrote: And don't kid yourself about the GOI leading some sort of coalition against China, it can't even lead Sri Lanka or Nepal and now you expect it to reach out to Japan?

You mean like Vietnam or SOKO??
BTW Japan has already enjoyed China. Now it is for Chinese to show if they can do the same to Japan.First rescue poor captain who is eating japanese food in nice cellar.

Nepal and SL, these countries are sovereign powers with little backyard to play around. Why should India bother when they know that any crossing of redlines can not be sustained even with Chinese support.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 21 Sep 2010 15:50

DavidD wrote: You could've written something similar 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 30, about China, about India, or about America...you get my point.

Well Yes and no.
30 years ago, America had a inflation problem and were in the midst of the cold war with FSU.Paul Walker for all the great talk, raised interest rates to ~ 20%. What stopped inflation was that along with this US started outsourcing its jobs to PRC.As a result this worked like a charm.It lead to the demise of FSU and benefited both PRC and America but as all things come to an end so is this saga.The time has come to pay the piper.The policy of mercantilism that PRC has perfected is going to come crashing down.No doubt it will hit America but the main sufferer is going to be PRC.The fireworks (IMO) will start very soon and finish by 2013. Time for everybody to prepare especially the Chinese who have been fooled by their CPC master's for so long.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 21 Sep 2010 23:28

You could've written something similar 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 30, about China, about India, or about America...you get my point.

In fact, no.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 21 Sep 2010 23:39

Strategy for the Rise of India:
Wait for China to fail.

You can write a list of Indian problems like this too. Maybe it reflects a certain attitude, but I see these as problems that China need to deal with. Where as you see them as problems that can not be solved. (Hence the collapse of China in the near future is almost a certainty)

I am not sure where you get a prognostication of the collapse of China-certainly can't be from my post.

India has serious problems but illegitimacy and ethnocide, systematic human rights abuses and mass murder are not amongst them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 00:04

Add lack of toilets as shown by CWG complaints.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Sep 2010 00:08

ramana wrote:Add lack of toilets as shown by CWG complaints.

So Shiv was right all along it always comes down to toilets, even the 62 war was lost because politically appointed Generals were busy ensuring that the mules were carrying commodes. The way to counter Chinese threat is to build more latrines at the border.

Damn it, it took so long for us to realize it.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Sep 2010 04:56

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 81630.html
Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.
Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known". Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Sep 2010 08:27

Chinese nuclear industry's overseas push

The announcement from China's biggest nuclear power firm that it was in talks to set up a one-gigawatt plant in Pakistan underscores the rising overseas ambitions of China's nuclear power industry, say analysts.

Following an unprecedented expansion since 2005, and with more than 28 power reactors slated to be built in China within the next 10 years, Chinese firms are now increasingly turning to overseas markets.

Pakistan, according to analysts and officials, is serving as a launch pad for the industry's overseas ambitions.

The state-run China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC), which is involved in four nuclear power plant projects – another in the talks stage — in Pakistan, is investing 800 billion yuan ($117.6 billion) to build 10 reactors in China by 2020. The company operates seven of China's 11 running power reactors — which have a combined capacity of 9,100 MW, accounting for one per cent of China's energy needs. Capacity is forecast to reach up to 80,000 MW by 2020, or five per cent of the energy requirements.

Since June, when Ye Qizhen, an analyst with the CNNC, said in a statement the company was “basically ready to export a mega nuclear power plant”, CNNC officials have been pressing Beijing to give it the go-ahead to begin work on a “mega plant” in Pakistan. However, following international concerns after the CNNC's announcement in March that it had signed deals to build two 300 MW reactors in Pakistan, the status of a fifth mega deal was unclear.

The CNNC has, in the past decade, emerged among a group of state-run firms in the energy sector that have an increasing influence in foreign policy, even overriding diplomatic interests, says a recent report by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

According to Dean Knox, an analyst with SIPRI, the CNNC had been pressuring the government to support an overseas expansion starting in Pakistan. The government, he said, initially resisted the pressure, prompted by China's joining of the 46-member Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) in 2004 and international concerns over Pakistan's proliferation record. But following a waiver granted to the civilian nuclear agreement between India and the United States, the Chinese government's “political will to block the CNNC project evaporated”, according to SIPRI.

Earlier this year, the CNNC signed deals with Pakistan to build two 300 MW power reactors, Chashma-3 and Chashma-4, following the two power reactors it has already built.

The CNNC's announcement on Monday that talks were under way for a fifth one-GW plant, estimated at 14 billion yuan ($2 billion) was not immediately confirmed by officials. Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu said China had notified the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) of the deals for the two 300 MW reactors, and “invited the IAEA to exercise safeguards and oversight of this project”. She did not, however, deny a deal for a fifth plant was in the works, only telling reporters “to check with the company”.