Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

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Philip
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Philip »

48 hrs. before CWG is "terminated".Will there be a pardon at the 11th hour ,59th minute and 59th second?

Commonwealth Games given 48 hours to save itself
Team officials warn they will pull athletes out if concerns about the standard of facilities are not immediately addressed

Jason Burke in Delhi and Owen Gibson guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 22 September 2010
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/se ... s-48-hours

Mihir Bose on the CWG fiasco

Why India is a bit player in the world of sport
Xcpt:
Deep-seated cultural attitudes may be to blame for the Commonwealth Games fiasco
By Mihir Bose
Thursday, 23 September 2010

Does India always have a problem making a strong entrance on the world stage? That was certainly the view of E M Forster's fictional English hero Fielding in A Passage to India who ranked the country alongside Belgium as cutting a sorry figure.

As India booms, that may sound like an outdated concept. Yet the hash the Indians are making of the Commonwealth Games suggests that even Belgium would object to being compared with them. Belgium successfully staged the 2000 European football championship, albeit in partnership with Holland, and the same duo is hoping to host the 2018 World Cup.

In contrast, the Delhi Commonwealth Games have seen the deaths of numerous construction workers, a massive uprooting of the capital's poor and, following allegations of corruption, the Indian Prime Minister stepping in to appoint officials to supervise the project.
And, despite spending a staggering $6bn (£3.8bn), as delegates arrived in Delhi this week they condemned the athletes' village as filthy, unhygienic and unfit for human habitation. Dave Currie, the head of the New Zealand Games team, even suggested that this could lead to the Games being cancelled altogether. And, to add to the mayhem, a footbridge gave way near the main Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium.

The problems the Games have revealed are more than the usual Indian contradictions. This ancient culture which is supposed to be measured and slow is actually one where everyone wants to go fast. One of the favourite Indian expressions is "Juldi, juldi" ("hurry, hurry"). The only problem is the stifling bureaucracy and the agonisingly inefficient infrastructure. The result is that cries of "Juldi, juldi" rise like a cloud of vapour while the actual pace of the journey matches the legendary Indian bullock cart.

And, while India still has a Soviet-style Planning Commission which produces five year plans, the country has an instinctive aversion to the sort of long-term planning which major sports events require. The Indian ability to improvise cannot be doubted. Last year, when security concerns meant that the Indian Premier League could not be staged in India, within weeks it had been moved to South Africa in the sort of operation that would be unthinkable in any other country.

The organisers of the Commonwealth Games, aware of this, took the unprecedented decision of moving their chief executive Mike Hooper from his comfortable office in central London to Delhi. The hope was that the feisty New Zealander would bring a much needed dose of Anglo-Saxon realism to the Indian belief that it will be all right on the night, summed up in the phrase "Chalta hai" ("It will do").

But not even Hooper could have solved the deep-seated problems revealed by the Commonwealth Games. These raise serious doubts as to whether, for all the money being spent on the tournament and all the talk of national pride, Indians actually care about sport.

Cricket apart, India is one of the great underachievers of modern sport. Until 2008, India's Olympic golds had all come in hockey. In Beijing, the country did win its first individual gold in shooting, but it has never done anything of note in the high-profile events of swimming, track and field. Its contingent for the Winter Olympics in Vancouver was so shambolic that the city's large Indian origin population started organising donations for the team. The odd individual Indian has sometimes made sporting headlines but, given the country's immense size and its long exposure to western sports, its failure to make a mark on the world sporting stage is astonishing.

One explanation has been provided by Ashwini Kumar, a former vice president of the International Olympic Committee."India has no base for sports despite its enormous population. Sport in our country is khel-khood (just a bit of fun)," he said.

"It goes against the grain of our country, against our tradition to play sports the way they do in the West. If a child in our country returns from the playground, he is not asked by his parents how he fared, but slapped for missing his studies and wasting his time. Sport is against our Indian ethos, our cultural tradition."

It has been estimated that less than 2 per cent of schools have playgrounds and even these are not the sort of playing fields common in the West, but just a little piece of open land where the children can run about.

Matters are not helped by the fact that education is not controlled centrally but by the various state governments. This leads to a profusion of policies, with sport often falling between the two stools of the centre and the state.

Unlike other countries, Indian politicians have historically shown little interest in sport. The Commonwealth Games are due to start in Delhi the day after India celebrates the birth of Mahatma Gandhi.

Yet the man venerated as the father of the Indian nation never concealed his aversion to sport – a fact that he frankly confessed in his autobiography. Indeed, in 1932, when Indian hockey ruled the world and Gandhi was asked for help in funding the team's participation in the Los Angeles Games, the "great-souled one" famously enquired: "What is hockey?"

The contrast with China and Mao could not be starker. The first paper Mao wrote back in 1917 was about the importance of sport.

In language that the Victorians, who popularised sport in this country, would have understood well, he said: "It is absolutely right to say that one must build a strong body if he or she wants to cultivate inner strength." For Mao, sport was also part of state policy, as he demonstrated in the 1970s by using "ping pong" diplomacy to seek a rapprochement with Richard Nixon and the United States.

The great Indian savant Swami Vivekananda did once advise his countrymen that they would find God more easily if they played football rather than spent hours studying the Gita – the Hindu bible – but his was a voice in the wilderness. Jawaharlal Nehru did his bit for sport and cricket in particular, not least by keeping India in the Commonwealth – a decision which went against the policy of the ruling Congress Party. But, unlike China, sport in India was never part of any centrally-driven policy.

This sports vacuum has been ideal for bureaucrats and low-level politicians, who have found sport a useful base upon which to build public support. Their path has been helped by the fact that, cricket apart, former Indian sportsmen and women have little or no involvement in running sports organisations, and most sports, particularly those contested at the Olympics, do not attract much commercial support.

For years Indian football was run by a Calcutta-based politician, while Suresh Kalmadi, a former pilot in the Indian Air Force and a Congress politician who is organising the Commonwealth Games, used Indian athletics and then the Indian Olympic Association to build his powerful base.

Even in cricket, which has always had upper- and middle-class support – having been sponsored by the Indian princes and then by Indian business – politicians are playing an increasingly important role.

Where once former cricketers were involved in running the sport, now it is powerful politicians like the current leader of Indian cricket and world cricket, the Indian cabinet minister Sharad Power. While his political clout cannot be doubted, there is nothing in his background which suggests much of an involvement with the game.

The most galling thing for the Indians is the contrast this provides with China, which used the 2008 Beijing Olympics as a giant coming-out party, proving that it could beat the West at its own sports. The tragedy for India is that, whatever happens in Delhi over the next few weeks, the world will conclude that this is another area where India cannot match its Asian rival.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 87034.html


PS:Hey! I'm only posting examples from current crises and there has been one in Russia! I also wrote about Mandela,US and UK-wallahs (Bush,BLiar,Brown,Cameron,Obama) leading from the front too remember? I'm quite satisfied with single-nation citizenship of mother India despite our great "zeros"!
Well,facts speak for themselves and our dear "constable" seems to be "mis-singh in action" in this crisis affecting the nation and its image.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by tejas »

I guess this is clean enough for Kalmadi and Co. :cry:

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chaanakya
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by chaanakya »

TonyMontana wrote: Thanks. But this just gets me more and more curious. Why is this thread not a true reflection of India? Are you not Indians discussion current Indian events? I would love to have a deeper understanding of corruption in India, as compared to corruption in China.

This thread is not about corruption in India Vs Corruption in China. Such comparison would have to be done in appropriate thread where it might be one of the examples. We are trying to draw proper lessons from it.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by James B »

The athlete village condition. For Shri Bhanot it is up to his standards. :rotfl:

Image

From al beeb - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/commonw ... 025666.stm
Philip
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Philip »

"A picture speaks a thousand words...".The Scots are supposed to have one with the defecating dog on a bed! One report says that this fiasco has dealt a killer blow for our 2020 Olympic hopes.Poor Kalmadi.His dreams of spending even more billions without accountability have now been dashed forever!

But where is "Singh who is King"? He has been PM for years all through this time.Does he give the lowest priority to sports and games,the Indian "attitude" towards it as Mihir Bose suggests? Had he been a Japanese politico,and with my dealings with the Japanese,where honour is everything,Singh would've slit his belly in shame.But knowing his insidious lack of patriotism and character,he will seek to shift the blame.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Sudip »

vina wrote:
AdityaM wrote:I have asked earlier and the sense i got from Sachin (the brf big daddy) was that Dilli Billi's didnot refer to the people living in delhi. And now you refer to all people as the Billis.
As beneficiaries /supplicants via trickle down of the loot of the Billis, the Mango Dillis too are in most ways culpable.
Why are these Delhi's games alone?
Err. Outside of Dilli no one whatsoever has the faintest attachment in anyway with the Dilli Games. A cricket match in Dilli with India playing will enjoy far higher TV viewership and public interest. Frankly no one gives a damn. I haven't heard of anyone at all planning to visit Dilli for the games.
All of you guys in India chose the govt that sits in power in center. All are equal contributors to it.
Err. I didn't elect them to give freebies and spend money in Dilli. But all the same, I would be the happiest person if Dilli falls of the map into the sea and it comes an inland sea like the Caspian sea or something.
This is as much your games as it is mine in Delhi.
we have endured the bombed out city and now we have to endure the ignominy. How unfair!
And what do we get for all this? poor quality pavements and Pothholes with remnants of roads mixed with dog faeces floating within them.
That is because you didn't care and you had no need to care because it wasn't your tax money going into it. It was somebody else's money and so you had no ownership. If Dilli govt had put in a special "Common Wealth tax" for the past 3 or 4 years in addition to the normal taxes and the city had financed it out of it's own tax base, it would have been very different.

Im not sure if delhi or non delhi gives a f$%^ but someone's sure turned hyper with these events :D
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by chaanakya »

Sachin wrote:We need to live with that for some time from now :(. The common people across India, by paying tax etc. have provided all possible help to make the games a success. And that too for games to be held in a city, where many of them may have not even stepped in their life times.
Well spoken , indeed.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Hari Seldon »

The games have been a monumental waste of money. Of course the infra built in terms of roads, metro, airport, flyovers etc will come in handy but re the rest - write off only. heck, even unkil couldn't clawback ill-gotten billions from the wall street scamsters, what hope of dilli doing so?

Perhaps the only good thing that comes off it is the crying need to improve basic governance standards. Like appointing a czar with whom the buck stops for mega events like these - not the unaccountable sleazeballs we have right now.

Good that its highly unlikely that any other international sporting event (money waster, IOW) will come to Yindia anytime soon. We can do without more white elephants. Even now the prospect of saving the money that was to be burnt on providing security cover and all can better be used to help flood victims in Delhi and Uttarakhand, IMHO.

Yup, I do see the point made that its a national shame and all that. I appreciate the spirit behind the point but I don't buy the point only. Better not to have notions like 'face' and H&D interfere with exposure of stark reality in full media glare.

Since our neta-babus are incapable of being shamed into action by the curses of us common citizenry, perhaps the sneers of the world elite with whom the desi elite regularly rub shoulders will help improve things somewhat. Or so I hope.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Vikas »

And we were worried about terrorists from pakistan. What OC , MMS and Delhi Govt have done nothing less than traitor's action.
You know in the end, These sham of the games would be held, Then some drama of investigation will be held along with couple of PIL's in SC and we will be discussing the same long after MMS, Kalmadi, MS Gill, Sheila Dixit and their cohorts would have kicked the bucket.
Such is the painful reality of our lives.
I am with Vina and others. May these Games end up being a monumental failure. May all the countries withdraw from CWG citing horrible infrastructure.
Let the shame of this failure move the babu-dom towards better hygienic conditions for our athletes if nothing else.
These games have been nothing but scamsters delight.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Sanku »

photos from al beeb...

just what were Dixit MMS and Co thinking?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/commonw ... 025907.stm
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Lalmohan »

shocked to discover that kalmadi is a former IAF pilot
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by krishnan »

BBC seems to have suddenly started liking Delhi
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ cameron has called up and said - we need to make this work yaar
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Gaurav_S »

^^^After seeing those Incredible India photos me is completely with cancelling CWG. Completely disappointed.

BTW me needs laughter therapy now... :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl:

Jai Ho..Mera Bharat bane aur Mahaan

Latest inputs: 8 nations on verge of boycotting CWG.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by geeth »

I sincerely hope and pray the "weakest Prime Minister" and his cronies and Rajamatha crash down like the structures of the CWG game.

I am gleeful. These clowns who bad mouth Modi and compare him with Hitler never gave a thought about the image India would have internationally ; their only intention is to deny the BJP their rightful place. Kangress cronies deserves this..India and its people deserve this government - even if they are in power by hook or crook.

Now now..of all the things, again BJP is to blamed for their seeming disinterest! WoW!

I wish the game is cancelled, so that the aam aadmi knows how deep is the curruption.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Gaurav_S »

These photos exactly depicts the situation of every city in India during monsoon. Just before few days back I posted "hush hush will only lead to shoddy work"..and this is precisely what I meant. Modi was correct in pointing out "even if MMS mops the floor CWG won't be ready.."
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Tanaji »

amit wrote:
Well said Tony.

I think what needs to be realised here is that if the shit hits the ceiling, that ceiling belongs to all of us, that is it's the ceiling of our home. To the outside world it doesn't matter who actually crapped. To them all that matters is that Indians are so stupid that they have shit on their ceilings.

Somehow I get hidden sense of glee in some of the posts at the kind of bad press and comments being made by Western and Indian media. It's about all of us and not just a few Delhiwallas or Congresswallas or whatever wallas you want talk about. Already we're seeing articles linking this fiasco with India's economic progress/ability. If that happens it will hurt the whole of India not just Delhi. Nobody is going to say, hey the Delhiwallas are fools let's go to Bangalore or Gujarat or whatever, those guys are cool.

The time for point figures is gone folks. Now we have to pray that things go smoothly from here till the end of the damn Games.

Blame apportioning and speculating if the BJP would have done better or Gujarat would have been a better venue is for later, after the Games.

JMT
While I dont disagree with the gist of your post, the point is that these Dilli billis are shameless. They are counting on the fact that given the dire straits they are in, they will be bailed out by the administration similar to the big bank bail out since the matter is "too big to fail". And true to the dictum that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", they have trotted out the India's prestige card as well, hoping that their blunders will be fixed.

Would you bet against me that the next step by Dilli Billis , once the games are concluded, will be words to the effect that the blunders are in the past, we should look to the future, gade murday kyon ukhadte ho, let it go onlee etc etc. And absolutely no one will be punished for the corruption apart from a token babu for taking Rs. 100 bribe?

That is why there is a latent sentiment that whatever grief that the organizers must be given must be now, rather than later, even at the cost of the games, because later will be too late, and nothing will come out of it and these Delhi billis will get away with the scam (as is destined to happen)
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Lalmohan »

personally, i dont think we should boycott the games. we owe it to the athletes who show up and compete
but we must not let down the pressure on the incompetent buffoons who make the goldmans sachs vampire squids look like angel fish by comparison of their greed
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by praksam »

अंधेर नगरी, चौपट रजा,टके सैर भाजी, टके सैर खाजा

This is the sorry state of affairs with Indian Politicians. :evil:
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Singha »

looking at the BBC pix the quality of the tiles and fittings looks top notch and at par with expensive flats here. but nobody seems to have cleaned or monitored them for months to arrive at this sorry state. paan chewing labour seems to have had a nice time doing thoo thoo and susu both.
few builders if any provide wall mounted hidden toilet cisterns due to the extra cost.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Sachin »

Singha wrote:but nobody seems to have cleaned or monitored them for months to arrive at this sorry state. paan chewing labour seems to have had a nice time doing thoo thoo and susu both.
One thing I need to check on the same lines. The inauguration is planned to happen 10-12 days from now. So was it the case of the various contingents landing up 'before time'? Or was it the classic case of we postponing things to the last moment, with an idea that every thing will be neat and tidy just 12 hours before the inauguration?
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Abhijeet »

Those photos look like pretty standard Indian construction detritus to me. Nothing out of the ordinary at all. If you walk around the dozens of construction sites in any Indian city (even those close to completion) you will find pretty much the same thing - the absolute unconcern for safety or aesthetics, paint splatter, poorly finished tiling etc.

What others may call these conditions hygienically challenged, I prefer to think of them as "cultural immersion".
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Abhijeet »

Sachin wrote:One thing I need to check on the same lines. The inauguration is planned to happen 10-12 days from now. So was it the case of the various contingents landing up 'before time'? Or was it the classic case of we postponing things to the last moment, with an idea that every thing will be neat and tidy just 12 hours before the inauguration?
If the Games were scheduled to begin on October 3, there's no way the athletes could have arrived any later this in the normal course of things. I actually thought they were due to arrive several weeks ago - multiple weeks of acclimation is standard for any major sporting event.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Chinmayanand »

India's disappointing government

Much less than promised

The economy is powering on, but the Congress-led coalition is squandering an opportunity to improve India
Image
THE weightlifting auditorium has a leaky roof. The athletes’ village has no kitchen. Stagnant monsoon water, abuzz with dengue-carrying mosquitoes, collects at most of the stadiums being hurriedly built for the Delhi Commonwealth games, which are due to begin on October 3rd. The security arrangements, in terrorism-stricken India, are shot to pieces because of 24-hour processions of workmen at most venues. Manmohan Singh, the prime minister, reiterates the official line that these will be the “best games ever”. That may depend on how you define “best”.

This shambles, for which corruption, feuding ministries, sapping bureaucracy and shoddy workmanship are all to blame, does not matter to many Indians. Athletics is not cricket. And few know much about their country’s image abroad. Yet it is depressing, not least because it mirrors how large parts of India are run.

When Mr Singh’s government, a coalition dominated by the Congress party, came to power in May last year it was considered to be in a strong position to improve matters. Congress had won a general election convincingly, letting it shake off a few of the troublesome partners, including Communist parties, who dogged its outgoing coalition administration. Its main opposition, the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, was deflated by electoral defeat. And Congress’s leaders, Mr Singh and Sonia Gandhi, the party chief, are highly regarded.

The government has at least managed the economy steadily. On August 31st it said that output had grown by 8.8% in the second quarter compared with the same quarter last year. This figure was made especially rosy by the relative gloom of a year earlier. Yet it puts India back in its wished-for realm of 9% growth, and it is based on strong growth in job-creating manufacturing, which increased by 12.4%.

But almost everywhere else the results are disappointing. The government has brought almost none of the economic reform India needs. And it has done no more in other pressing areas, like infrastructure and health care, than its predecessor. It may even have jeopardised one of that government’s biggest achievements, a civil nuclear co-operation deal with America that was expected to lead to big investments in nuclear energy. On August 30th India’s upper house passed a nuclear-liability law that will make suppliers of nuclear fuels and related gear liable for 80 years in the event of any malfunction. That may well deter them.

Worse, the government’s poor management of several crises makes it seem incompetent. These include violent separatist protests in Kashmir, where an 11-year-old boy was killed by police on August 30th, becoming the 65th victim of the year, and a worsening Maoist insurgency in east India, which has cost almost 900 lives this year.

The easy response to this disappointment is to blame unrealistic expectations. Despite hopes bandied about by businessmen, there never was much prospect of this leftist government bringing economic reform to India’s statist financial sector or protected retail industry.

But even when the government has tried bits of reform it has often got stuck. The biggest, an effort to prune the country’s dreadful thicket of indirect taxes into a tidier form, an all-India Goods and Services Tax, has been pushed back by a year, to April 2012. Another, to scrap a petrol subsidy, announced in June to many loud public protests, has been followed by only one rise in petrol prices, which suggests they are not yet free.

The government’s inability to make itself work better is a more basic failing—richly evident in the games’ foul-up—for which Congress, in charge of the Delhi state government, is especially guilty. To address a big weakness of the previous government, road-building, an able minister, Kamal Nath, was appointed. He promised to build an average of 20km a day, but this looks unlikely.

In education, another priority, early progress has slowed. The education minister, Kapil Sibal, has promised an array of improvements, including universal primary education, partly provided for through private schooling. This has been enshrined in law, yet its implementation is bogged down. State governments are against any change that the centre will not fund; and its negotiating skills are poor.


The man at the wheel

A lack of strong leadership underlies that. Mr Singh’s power is limited. From her central Delhi bungalow, at 10 Janpath, Mrs Gandhi controls the government. Ministers also pay more heed to the man expected to be the next prime minister, her 40-year-old son Rahul, than to the current one. Yet on the rare occasions when Mr Singh has decided to put his shoulder to the wheel, it has moved. That explains why the America-India nuclear deal was passed by the previous government, despite much hostility to it.

Why Mr Singh, a formidable economist and liberal, has not tried to do more—especially to calm the crises in Kashmir and the east—is baffling. But his reluctance to act more vigorously explains why he is rated less highly at home than abroad. According to Newsweek he is the world leader “other leaders love”. India Today, by contrast, found that 1% of Indians consider him their first choice for prime minister.

Mr Gandhi, a late-developer, meanwhile shows little interest in the tough business of policy. He is devoted to rebuilding Congress, especially in populous north India; forthcoming state elections, in Bihar in October and West Bengal next year, will be important tests of his progress. This ambition also explains Mr Gandhi’s single recent policy statement. After the government forbade a big mining company, Vedanta, to extract bauxite from a mountain in Orissa sacred to local tribes, he rushed to present himself to them, on August 26th, as their “soldier in Delhi”. Indeed they need one. And the tribal vote, about 8% of the total, would certainly be helpful to Congress.

But it would be more useful for India if Mr Gandhi could get a long-stalled land-acquisition bill through parliament. It would redefine the terms under which the government can acquire land for industry, an urgent need, in a poor, crowded country.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by vic »

The road outside PM house has crumbled as it was badly laid. MMS is not bothered about the road on which he travels practically everyday, how will be manage the nation?
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by munna »

I support Vinaji, these games should be a monumental failure. The country has been migoverned and now it is showing in not one but multiple places. The country is badly divided internally and it is a truth that people do not identify theselves with this apology of a spectacle for variety of reasons.

The badly divided nation has seen one faction dominate the proceedings for the past 6+ years and they have nothing concrete to show up in terms of improvement of governance standards. Heck even the 3 FASTEST growing states of India are governed by the *** (CENSORED)-party. And here we have tall claims of India being led to glory by ignoring scam on scams, great governance. :eek:
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by amit »

geeth wrote:I sincerely hope and pray the "weakest Prime Minister" and his cronies and Rajamatha crash down like the structures of the CWG game.

I am gleeful. These clowns who bad mouth Modi and compare him with Hitler never gave a thought about the image India would have internationally ; their only intention is to deny the BJP their rightful place. Kangress cronies deserves this..India and its people deserve this government - even if they are in power by hook or crook.

Now now..of all the things, again BJP is to blamed for their seeming disinterest! WoW!

I wish the game is cancelled, so that the aam aadmi knows how deep is the curruption.

Geeth,

I hope you and others here realise that this exactly the same attitude which had, a few years ago, another bunch of Indians rubbing their hands in glee when Modi was denied a visa to the US. At that point of time those idiots didn't pause to consider that what the US action amounted to was that an elected Chief Minister of a state and major figure in a National Party was denied a visa by the US government. It was a slap on India more than it was on Modi personally - especially since the US routinely gives visas to all manner of dictators and mass murderers.

Your wish for the Games to be cancelled because of this dreadful state of affairs is same myopic view of the entire situation. Do you think all those Goras who are wanting the cancellation will differentiate between "Nationalist" Indians and hangers on to Rajmata's Italian mafia like BRF is so much in pains to do so on every page of almost every thread?

Nope, if they spit on India, they will spit on every Indian. Like it or not if India shines, Indians, including ourselves shine. And if India craps, the smell comes out from all our behinds as far as foreigners are concerned.

I'm sorry but this attitude, "serves them right and this will bring Congress crashing down so that the BJP can roar back to power" is a pipe dream. Even if that happens do you think that India's tarnished reputation will be suddenly mended?

Note: I'm not saying the fukkers responsible for this mess shouldn't be criticised and made to pay for it. I personally would prefer a Mohammad Najibullah treatment for all of them. However, that's for later after the Games are over and the everyone's gone home. Not now.

JMT
Last edited by amit on 23 Sep 2010 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by amit »

munna wrote:I support Vinaji, these games should be a monumental failure.
Ok Munna ji. Let's take it the Games are a monumental failure, other infra crumbles, countries boycott the Games and everybody bi**ches about what a bunch of idiots Indians are (along with it questioning the economic progress and the ability to progress).

Let's just suppose this leads to the government crashing and the "Nationalist" govt comes back to power.

Then what?

What happens to India's tarnished reputation, the undoubted hit on business sentiment which would likely affect investment flows etc?

Do you think the day Modi or some other stalwart is sworn in, all this will just disappear?

Also I ask you, if a non-Indian looks at you and says something like: "Hey what kind of upcoming super power are you? You can't even organise the Commonwealth Games? Look at China, how super they are, they even doctored the fireworks display at the closing ceremony of the Beijing Games?

Are you going to say, no it's all because this bunch of turds were in power and if we had the "Nationalist" party in power this would have been a super duper Games etc?

Would that even sound convincing to you?

Please don't get angry I really would like to know from you and others, how they think a failure like this should be tackled on a personal level.
Last edited by amit on 23 Sep 2010 18:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Lalmohan »

interestingly the tone of western media coverage has shifted, there are still 'dirty 3rd world reports' but there are a lot of voices defending India. i think there are 2 things at stake here - 1 is ongoing business with india and the other is india's increasing global political clout, there are a lot of interested parties outside india that want these to remain stable. its a pity that within india there is neither the care to get things right in the first place nor the willingness to pull together and make things right now that the crisis is upon us. no foreigner be they black, white, green, martian purple is ever going to distinguish between delhi and elsewhere or congress and others... it will all be India

the negative repurcussions if this gets worse will be tremendous, and far more deadly than another 3 Mumbai attacks
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by amit »

One interesting point: Some of the arguments I'm reading here, like a monumental waste of money, India can't afford it, only Delhi benefits etc, sound eerily familiar.

I've read much the same thing being said by a relatively famous Indian.

Mani Shankar Aiyer! :-)

So the guy was right afterall. Gosh the mafia must have pushed him out of the Sports Minister's job as part of some conspiracy.

:rotfl:

Note: Much of the mess today was because he sat on all developmental work for the first two years he was Sports Minister after India won the bid. As Sports Minister he was head of the organising committee which didn't do any work for that period of time.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by amit »

Lalmohan wrote:interestingly the tone of western media coverage has shifted, there are still 'dirty 3rd world reports' but there are a lot of voices defending India. i think there are 2 things at stake here - 1 is ongoing business with india and the other is india's increasing global political clout, there are a lot of interested parties outside india that want these to remain stable. its a pity that within india there is neither the care to get things right in the first place nor the willingness to pull together and make things right now that the crisis is upon us. no foreigner be they black, white, green, martian purple is ever going to distinguish between delhi and elsewhere or congress and others... it will all be India

the negative repurcussions if this gets worse will be tremendous, and far more deadly than another 3 Mumbai attacks

Lalmohan ji,

Spot on, especially the bolded portion.

But I think the main reason for a change in attitude is the realisation that if there's a largescale boycott then the Commonwealth Games is finished forever. You'll notice that it's only the Goras that are complaining. If the games fall through its almost certain that India will boycott the Glasgow games in 2014 and a lot of other "black" nations will do the same.

Me thinks its this belated realization which has led to tempering of rhetoric. Too much of that and there could be a groudswell in the gora nations for the boycott which the govts wouldn't be able to control.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by amit »

Chinmayanand wrote:India's disappointing government

Much less than promised

The economy is powering on, but the Congress-led coalition is squandering an opportunity to improve India
It has started. See how the Economist shifts the messy preparations for the Games - which is essentially a management failure of a bunch of guys - to a Economy story?
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by munna »

amit wrote:Ok Munna ji. Let's take it the Games are a monumental failure, other infra crumbles, countries boycott the Games and everybody bi**ches about what a bunch of idiots Indians are (along with it questioning the economic progress and the ability to progress).

Let's just suppose this leads to the government crashing and the "Nationalist" govt comes back to power.

Then what?
Err you are mistaking me for a CENSORED-prty fanboy, I am not. I have no dreams of hoisting a flag over the Lal Kila or having a particular grouping hoist that. All I am interested in is an honest debate whereby the standard tactic of blaming everything on ABV or PVNR is not resorted to. I want my PM and government to step up and step in to show leadership. This nationalist vs non-nationalist issue is pure horse manure as there is nothing like that in our political spectrum. We have two very similar political groupings in which one grouping claims to be holier than thou.
This holier than thou grouping and its supporters are using the attitude of superiority to justify any and every failure of the leadership while the nation is going down the drain. We have to rise from this stupor and media induced intellectual corruption. A huge blow to collective H&D of such folks is not a bad deal at all.
What happens to India's tarnished reputation, the undoubted hit on business sentiment which would likely affect investment flows etc?

Do you think the day Modi or some other stalwart is sworn in, all this will just disappear?
Again where is CENSORED-party relevant to it? Its leaders and the grouping itself are not coming to power in next 400 years and its 400% guaranteed! The question here is who is responsible for the tarnished reputation or loss of face? :P
Are we even honestly going to ask rude questions? Pratap Bhanu Mehta realized in time, will other intellectuals do so in time? Before the nation may salvage something leftover.
Also I ask you, if a non-Indian looks at you and says something like: "Hey what kind of upcoming super power are you? You can't even organise the Commonwealth Games? Look at China, how super they are, they even doctored the fireworks display at the closing ceremony of the Beijing Games?
I have never bought in the propaganda of India==superpower. We are a poor nation with a large economy and that is it! It was invariably this government that tried to sell this joke to the public disregarding sane advice of so many of its well wishers to unleash governance reforms.
Are you going to say, no it's all because this bunch of turds were in power and if we had the "Nationalist" party in power this would have be a super duper Games etc?

Would even sound convincing to you?
Nope I shall be honest and tell them that my nation's governance systems have certain lacunae and I have personally been campaigning and working towards addressing them. Certain political grouping in India off late came to enjoy absolute power and that maybe corrupted it. We realize our mistakes and all people in India are indulging in honest debate to ask some tough questions to people in charge.
However I shall "sound" unconvincing if the "debate" does not take place! Because an absence of criticism and debate shall mean only one thing that after all we are a guided dem.....
Please don't get angry I really would like to know from you and others, how they think a failure like this should be tackled on a personal level.
Amit sir I was angry when my PM sat through the abominable loot during spectrum distribution!
I was angry when MPs were horse traded to win IUCN deal vote in LS!
I was angry when media did not cover Bareilly and Deganga riots!
I was angry when CWG loot came to light 2 years ago!
I was angry when Indian Army was bad mouthed in J&K even when they were not in the actual areas of conflict!

Why do you think I should be angry now? On whom? You get angry on people responsible for something but here we have a leadhership that denies knowing the "r" of responsibility. My friend it is not about you, me or a political grouping. This is about beginning an honest debate and it seems that the nation shall have have it on the rocks. So be it.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Hari Seldon »

Tanaji wrote:While I dont disagree with the gist of your post, the point is that these Dilli billis are shameless. They are counting on the fact that given the dire straits they are in, they will be bailed out by the administration similar to the big bank bail out since the matter is "too big to fail". And true to the dictum that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", they have trotted out the India's prestige card as well, hoping that their blunders will be fixed.

Would you bet against me that the next step by Dilli Billis , once the games are concluded, will be words to the effect that the blunders are in the past, we should look to the future, gade murday kyon ukhadte ho, let it go onlee etc etc. And absolutely no one will be punished for the corruption apart from a token babu for taking Rs. 100 bribe?

That is why there is a latent sentiment that whatever grief that the organizers must be given must be now, rather than later, even at the cost of the games, because later will be too late, and nothing will come out of it and these Delhi billis will get away with the scam (as is destined to happen)
+1.

So a CWG flop == 3 Mumbais happening now? What apt comparison will flow next, I have to wonder.

Anyway, again moi can't but help notice that we've likely started to take ourselves way too seriously only. It's not as if hamare chahne- na chahne se kuch hoga. What will happen, will happen. Our outpourings in this dhaga will matter less than a whit out in the real world. Still, good fun to work into a lather on how some are more patriotic than some others who are indirectly ok with 3 mumbais happening only. I mean, c'mon. Really, now.

P.S.
As if the Economist needed an excuse to diss India. Drain inspectors will ne'er run outta drains to report on in India, let us unabashedly admit. The Economist could as well have ignored the CWG completely (had it gone as per promise) and started pouting other guttery stats on India and linked it to the wider Economy only. In fact, count on them to do exactly that 1 qtr down the line when the games are history.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by nvishal »

Could this be the end of congress?
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by rgsrini »

I support Vinaji, these games should be a monumental failure.
It is beyond my mental capacity (I know it is extremely limited) to figure out how one can wish that the game should be a monumental failure and bring a bad name to India. What drives people to feel happy when something done by another Indian or something about India fails. Isn't it just the variation of the same feeling that is causing people to betray India...

I can understand the urge to hold people (especially others) accountable and responsible, but not this.

I believe that the photos are from apartments that are not occupied yet and they have not been given a final "once over" yet. If anyone must be blamed then it is the idiot who chose to spit and the one who chose to soil the toilet. I have seen the very same things when I built my house in the USA. I used to visit the site every day, but it still happened in a "first world" country with educated labor force. Here we are talking about 1000s of apartments being constructed by 1000s of illiterate laborers and I am not surprised at all.

Some of the photos appear to be from construction sites. It will be too much of a over reaction to call for cancellation of CWG because of these photos and a "under construction" foot bridge collapse.
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Vivek Raghuvanshi »

http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=289& ... mment-1368

WARGAMING ON CAN TERRORISTS / INSURGENTS BREACH
COMMONWEALTH GAMES 2010 – VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI APRIL 2010

http://api.ning.com/files/ktk547H0HQGDe ... ssment.pdf
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Lalmohan »

the economist article came out before the current commonwealth woes
hari - you're an intelligent person, sometimes it behoves you to think before engaging keyboard
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by AdityaM »

nvishal wrote:Could this be the end of congress?
The best outcome for india can only happen with the worst outcome for the games.

could cwg be the explosion that allows the blind citizens to hear , deaf citizen to speak and the mute citizens to see that they voted themselves into misery twice?
however, if the hand-wallahs time it such that the yuvraj appears at the 11th hour and is made to look that he saved the country's honour, this would be the kind of debut on world stage that will set them up for prolonging the misery thrice over.

This is delhi when all attention is being paid to it:
http://www.bharatstudent.com/ctv/watchv ... hmeejgakhj
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

Post by Tanaji »

Er, saying CWG should fail is a bit much, even though it will cause much takleef to the people involved.

But Dilli billis are so shameless that even if the CWG is a spectacular failure, there is no guarantee the guilty will be punished.
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