Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 24 Sep 2010 10:19

Suraj wrote:There's no way the stadia and CWG village cost ~$16 billion (Rs.70k crore). They're adding the cost of DEL T3, Delhi Metro and assorted civic works projects, as if they were made for CWG.

Kinda put the $60 billion the Chinese sinked into the Olympics to perspective doesn't it?

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Sep 2010 10:23

Singha wrote:typical gora/indian media clowns. where would dilli be today without a good airport and metro - much farther back among the list of global biz hubs.

I have never flown into and out of Nai Dilli ever for any international travel or even domestic travel and so have a vast majority of people in this country. So why should I and others spend money no the Dilli airport and the metro and roads and other stuff. I would rather have them built in Bangalore!.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Sep 2010 10:24

Anyways, there was a comedian in one of the TV Channels and a new explanation of CWG.

CWG -

Country's
Wealth
Gone

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Sep 2010 10:31

TonyMontana wrote:Kinda put the $60 billion the Chinese sinked into the Olympics to perspective doesn't it?

That kind of loot is what happens when you are in a sensory deprivation jail like PRC is today with no free media and the govt can get away with blantant theft and waste like that, all basically appropriated from the back of the Chinese people and peasants.

Yeah $60B for the Olympics and another $50b for the Shanghai Expo. What terrible wastes both. Other than being a "Benis " measuring contest it is just nothing of consequence . At a very deep level, it is a psychological response for the need to cover deep inadequacies and lack of self esteem and a craving for recognition..

To put it crudely, is it a Freudian response to the supposed perceived lack of ummmm. "wang size" of the Chinese and the consequent need to prove , ,mine is "bigger" ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2010 10:48

Vina your prayers are answered. GVK group which is driving BIAL now is embarking on T1 expansion now and T2 start soon

we already have the best long dedicated airport entrance road of 5km....time to hang up some soothing "incredible bengaluru" hoardings and we should be ok.

I tell you saar, the first A380 to roar in will fly over your strategy office onlee

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 24 Sep 2010 10:54

Now everyone is trying hard to make the games a success:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 617562.cms

"A large number of Jats have bought tickets to conveniently enter the games venues. But we won't disturb anybody during the games because our boys would be participating in various sports. However, the Jats will raise their voice before international media at the end of the games at the venue."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 616467.cms
It seems that the hosting nation has to provide some financial package to each nation as part of games. India offered more, and now TOI calls it a bribe!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Sep 2010 10:56

SHucks, only mana bhagyanagaram has been cursed with utter inability to even start work on the metro project. All of Yindia's top 20 cities needed metros like, yesterday. At least, all the cities that qualify to have IPL teams should have metros to ferry commute.

The CWG would still be a positive if the money wasted can be invoked everytime Dilli sarkar attempts to deny money to useful projects in the vernacular metros.

I recall with sadness the Mumbai slum redevelopment project stymied by Dilli after all the clearances and financing etc had painstakingly been put in place. And for what really? Hasn't the runup to the CWG displaced umpteen mango people - disrupted the lives of wage earners and all that?? Am told of auto bans in place in certain areas, of ragpickers and mendicants scooped off the streets in said areas to present a sanitized image and all that. If that's OK for Dilli, why then the excess concern or the same groups when Mumbai wanted to go ahead with slum redevelopment, eh?

Anyway, pointless. Its not as if what we think or say on here matters 1 whit out there. Ki pharak painda??

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Sep 2010 11:36

This whole 'Delhi stealing from others and not letting other cities develop' line is getting tired. It's not that it's not true. While slightly off-topic (more detailed discussion ought to be in the Urban De and Public Policy thread) it must be mentioned that funding long gestation infrastructure projects cannot be done efficiently using current tax/nontax revenues. Just because Delhi used that approach to build its infrastructure doesn't mean the whole country can - there's just not such a revenue base or budgetary surplus for it. The only way is to have a mature debt market capable of supporting such municipal bond issues. In fact Delhi should do it too - they're already hitting funding issues for Delhi Metro phases 3, 4 and 5, which will extend the network from 200kms to 5-600kms as I recall. They can't keep depending on JBIC plus central govt viability gap funding. Other cities just blaming central favouritism to Delhi does nothing to practically address the problem. Extending the DMRC phase 1 & 2 funding approach to all other metros around India is a non starter. There's no cash flow to do it, and it'll only lead to hardening political fissures, with no practical solutions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2010 11:42

worst enemies of mumbai are probably PILs by concerned citizens/ civil society activists/ leftist intellectuals et al to protect the poor and protect the environment! most of these guys are either very wealthy or live in properties purchased inexpensively decades ago/rent controlled flats and so on.

prima donnas like jairam ramesh wielding their clout also take their toll.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 24 Sep 2010 11:45

Hey, what is wrong with that toilet? All it takes is an hour by a guy to make it sparkling clean!! In fact EVERY construction site in these parts of the world looks like that before the final clean up.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 24 Sep 2010 11:48

Singha wrote:the price tag of the games in media I think includes T3, improvement of domestic terminal, metro lines, road work too. these any large indian city needed anyway...CWG or no CWG.

every metro city in india is in process of building metros, large air terminals, ring roads etc.

the immediate cost of CWG is the cost of new stadia/refurbishing old ones and the CWG village ...and the supply and service contracts handed out
to friends and associates. probably around $1-2b? this could have been saved by not hosting the CWG.

so the "loss" to nation is not that much either way...1-2b is like chai paani for the wheeler dealers and big ticket dealmakers and brokers in the woodwork there.

pls correct me if the cost of stadia and CWG village is itself 70,000cr

adding to that, those flats at the games village have already been sold by DDA for astronomical prices starting from 1.2 crore per unit. So thats a large chunk of the cost recovered. Rest as you say is T3, Metro, Ring road, elevated roads, FOB's, new buses, street furnitute, heritage building refurbishment etc etc would serve delhi for decades to come and make it a better city.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2010 12:16

please do not underestimate "investor sentiment", it is very powerful. if an investor is about to put down $100M on a project and thinks that it will be badly delivered or mismanaged then his 10% return might look more like 9.5% return, he will put his money elsewhere

So far, its mostly media hoo haa, but there has been a definite dip in sentiment and confidence. So far, there may not be a lot of damage but everyone is watching. The rest of the games need to go well. The ones to watch are the Australian media, they kick up a "third world sh*t hole" scream faster than anyone else I have seen.

Singhaji - posh hotels don't make too much difference to westerners, who take it for granted. I have personally heard conversations about Delhi-Gurgaon highway and officeblocks (which are seen as being high-end) described in very unflattering terms because of everything else around them. Westerners filter out the familiar and focus on the things they don't see at home. Indians do the opposite.

added later: responding on rest of infra - actually there have been very positive reports about the Delhi metro and the new airport in the western media. However, I'll come back to my normal gripe - the basics are way overdue

added later later
BBC: Sir Ron Sanders (Opinion) - he's been reading this thread it would seem, nice +ve article saying it will all be ok

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 24 Sep 2010 13:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11403204

As usual, the Aussies are leading the whine fest

Why do Aussies have a reputation for being "tough" when they wimp out in the slightest adversity?

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 24 Sep 2010 13:48

Dileep wrote:Hey, what is wrong with that toilet? All it takes is an hour by a guy to make it sparkling clean!! In fact EVERY construction site in these parts of the world looks like that before the final clean up.

Dileep saar nothing is wrong with the toilet as long as it's not captured in camera. Its just 1hr job to clean it...but to change India's tarnished image will take several years. What ever brand image was built in last few years has been completely eroded reinforcing westerners view towards subcontinent being filthy and poor. This whole saga could have been avoided by ensuring things were managed in better way or atleast ensure no one adventured to the crime scene and take snaps.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 24 Sep 2010 14:02

^ Dileep, if after a long flight you go to a 5star hotel, or even a 2star one and this is the condition of your room, then what would your response be?
you wont care as long as another room has a "Work in Progress" sign. But if the finalised and prepared room is stinky with feces, stains and dog marks everywhere, wont your temper shoot the roof?! Especially if the Hotel keeps claiming that this is the best room in world!
If the hotel had cleaned such a room and then made it presentable for you before you checked-in, then it would be no problem since you wouldnt have even known how bad it got.
But once you saw this room, if the Hotel said its a matter of perception, what would you do?
Even if the hotel asked you to wait while they clean it, would you be comfortable in a rooms which had dog feces all over?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 24 Sep 2010 14:03

Dileep wrote:Hey, what is wrong with that toilet? All it takes is an hour by a guy to make it sparkling clean!! In fact EVERY construction site in these parts of the world looks like that before the final clean up.

Dileep the issue is that these photographs were taken less than 7 days before people were supposed to move in.

The whole issue of CWG (barring the rona dhona like vina) is that we are 99% there. We could have beat China hands down.

The CWG village if clean is a 5+ star hotel (first hand view)

Its like taking a bowl of Payasam made with much love and throwing in a cup of salt in it just before you serve it to the Namboothari.

THAT is the problem.

Instead -- this -- is what we have.

2 months!! All a WOW CWG needed was 2 months -- everything done 2 months before.

How could they mess it up!!

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 24 Sep 2010 14:12

Its not too late. If India knows something called PR then OC could still do video shoot of spotlessly clean sparkling toilets and bathrooms before games commence and release to media.

Proof that Indians are good at crisis management.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2010 14:13

everyone is praising the canteen, which is what the athletes are more worried about

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 24 Sep 2010 14:16

Gaurav_S wrote:Its not too late. If India knows something called PR then OC could still do video shoot of spotlessly clean sparkling toilets and bathrooms before games commence and release to media.
Proof that Indians are good at crisis management.

Well thats the bare minimum. Some things are already too late, the collapsed bridge can not be built up. The incomplete flyovers are a major eyesore (a huge elevated track just 2-3 km from the village) the debris is not cleaned up and is lying around (and cant be cleaned up). The roads are rogered and wont be repaired.

Khan market has been transformed from a piece of Paris to a piece of old delhi near abattoir.

London looked prettier during the blitz than Cannot place right now.

All for 1% work.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Sep 2010 14:17

How could they mess it up!!

How can they NOT mess it up ? Doing it right is the exception than the norm in India as far as public agencies go.

Those guys never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

.

But all good in my opinion. No more games-shames for the next 30 years hopefully and Dilli scoundrels dont get to gouge the rest of the nation like they did during the Asiad and again during the CWG. You want to build infra , well go to the bank and borrow.

Well. Shri Shri Rahul Mehta Maharaj Ji will lay claim to the presidential palace, the Lt Governor's mansion, the chief minister's office and prime real estate and parks if you guys dont pay up!.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Sep 2010 14:22

Nihat wrote:adding to that, those flats at the games village have already been sold by DDA for astronomical prices starting from 1.2 crore per unit.

Err. Sorry. Per my madrassa math, 1.2crore (avg) * 1100 apts = Rs 1320 crore onree. Okay, lets put it at 1.6 crore (avg), even then it comes to 1760 crore. I hear 1100 apts as the number in the village. So even if we double that 1100, at best you will make around 3400 to 3500 crore.

Out of 70,000 crore, this is chump change. So what about the rest of the 67,000 odd crores ?. Where does that come from.

So thats a large chunk of the cost recovered. Rest as you say is T3, Metro, Ring road, elevated roads, FOB's, new buses, street furnitute, heritage building refurbishment etc etc would serve delhi for decades to come and make it a better city.

Good. I am all for making Delhi a better city. But I have no desire to pay for it along with the rest of the country. So you pay for it yourself!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2010 14:34

India shows its other face

more +ve spin from westerners

Manmeet · Post by **Manmeet** » 24 Sep 2010 14:37

Indians have the habit of investing good money in building things but once built they have no idea how to 'Maintain' a place.
Build and then leave it to 'eat dirt' as every penny is spent in building and nothing is left to maintain !
It is absolutely shameful how things are unfolding in Delhi.
Media is reporting that Indians have bribed almost 72 countries !
Now bribe again to get these countries play !
When inquiries will be laid against trio of dik-shit, gill and kalmadi, bribe again to get acquitted.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2010 14:45

^^ this bribing report is a bit of DDM-itis, apparently all bidders offered similar grants

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Sep 2010 15:29

Many years ago I visited a couple of celebs in Delhi who were living in the former Asian games village.Excellent houses,built to last.Looking at these apts. from the outside pics,they seem OK,but how well they've been built is the crux of the matter.WE could have plumbing,elec.,etc. giving up within months and hastily laid plaster peeling off durign the next showers of rain.In some cities,similar housing built for similar tamashas are so defect prone that there are no takers even years after the event.The annual/monthly maintenance charges for such lavish infrastructure makes it impossible for any Middle-Class family to dream of buying a piece of the village.The entire CWG exercise has been to fleece the poor Indian and hand it over to the rich.

This is such a shameful scandal that in any other developed country,the PM would've had to resign gvien the outcry from the public.Moreover,why did he have to leave it to the very last few seconds before midnight to get into the act,when the entire media Indian and foreign were screaming about irregularities,delays and poor construction and CW teams all threatening to pull out? It is now upto the entire country to see that the guilty scamsters be dealt with in severest terms,fast track courts,with long jail sentences.The disappearance of so much money must also be tracked down,but knowing how this has been in truth a "Congress Wealth Games",where all the moolah has gone into the pockets of Kalmadi and co.s pals within the GOP,a huge whitewash and cover-up can be expected.WEe need the services of Scvotland Yard too to track down the corrupt money trail in the UK and also find out/expose if K&Co. had partners in crime in the CWG set up internationally.The media have to bite hard and never let go of this most shameful scandal in India's independent history until all the guilty are firmly behind bars.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 24 Sep 2010 15:43

>>>This is such a shameful scandal that in any other developed country,the PM would've had to resign gvien the outcry from the public.Moreover,why did he have to leave it to the very last few seconds before midnight to get into the act,when the entire media Indian and foreign were screaming about irregularities,delays and poor construction and CW teams all threatening to pull out?

This is the crux of the matter...no amount of spin or white wash is going to change the fact. After doing all these to ensure that the Game is utter failure, why now ask the countrymen to show patriotism and save the face of the country? Any other man with a little spine would have resigned long back. But then, he has to stay put and complete the act by protecting the guilty and ensure that the name of Rajmata and prince charming are not sullied. Name of the country? who cares?? Take a walk!

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Sep 2010 15:52

I am not going to watch CWG even on TV. I would rather be watching BCCI-IX taking on white pacquis.
Next time when some joker decides to conduct any international level gaming event in Delhi, Pls consider me as one voting against it.
Spend money form your pocket and stop screwing us in the name of national pride and blah blah.
Anybody who thinks that falling footbridge is a minor incident if foreigners/VIP's are not underneath the debris should be made to stand beneath a similar bridge and then make it fall.
So much hue and cry, but not a single person has resigned yet. Not a single soul from the OC feels any remorse or any sense of failure. Why not show patriotism and commit suicide.
The PM as usual is sleeping since the day one chap in Australia was released after being booked on terrorism charges. Wonder why the whole political class is silent and a not a squeak from Sonia Gandhi to Advani to Karat ?

Silver lining: Maybe the stock market is booming because this ill gotten wealth somehow is getting channelized into equities.

amit · Post by **amit** » 24 Sep 2010 16:27

Philip wrote:Looking at these apts. from the outside pics,they seem OK,but how well they've been built is the crux of the matter.WE could have plumbing,elec.,etc. giving up within months and hastily laid plaster peeling off durign the next showers of rain.In some cities,similar housing built for similar tamashas are so defect prone that there are no takers even years after the event.

Typical Philip-speak.

Pray saar can you tell me how you know that plumbing, elec etc will be giving up within months? Did some little birdie tell you?

Oh now I get it, it's all the reporting in the Gora media, they don't like it so it must be bad. Seesh they showed dirty toilets and open wiring - must be bad, they know the best.

Also can you name one city "where similar housing built for similar tamashas" in India? Which other city in India has a Games Village built for a tamasha? That would qualify this: "are so defect prone that there are no takers even years after the event."

Funny thing is that in the same post you praised the only other "similar housing built for similar tamashas" built in India. The Asian Games village.

Man Oh Man now this thread has become really entertaining!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Sep 2010 16:34

Saved by the bell?!

Massive clean-up saves Games for India as key nations get back on track

Hundreds of extra workers sent to Delhi ahead of teams' arrival
By Andrew Buncombe in Delhi and Robin Scott-Elliot

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 88188.html

PS:Amit,it is usual custom for buildings built in haste to develop defects within a short time after completion.The village has been completed during v. heavy monsoon rainfall and many of the concreting and plastering items of work will not have been able to cure properly,and may develop leaks,etc.If entrance halls have been flooded,then water could even be in elec. conduits,waste pipes could have debris inside,etc.These are standard complaints for shoddy workmanship and supervision. Just wait and see.If media reports are correct,the blocks built last where done in haste,they will in all probability develop major defects in finsihing,etc. after the Games.At that time,there will be no one wanting to correct mistakes,there will be no hurry to do so after the contractors get the bulk of their contract fees.I can just imagine the massive extra funding "on-account" being spent right now to save the Games.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2010 16:36

a more critical look at the suffering of Delhi in the name of a great games

Al Guardian - Compared to a lootfest like London or Beijing, Delhi is just an also-ran

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 24 Sep 2010 16:47

I think the Indian economy and the "India story" is far too strong for anything as minor as the Commonwealth Games to cause any major changes. At most it reinforces the meme that Indians, like the French and Italians, are poor at order and organization. The world laughs -- as they should, heartily -- and moves on to focus on more important things.

I think Indians living abroad who feel some kind of pressure to answer for the country to foreigners are more concerned than most people here about what message this fiasco is sending out.

As an Indian living in India, I could not care less what various foreign countries think about how India is run. Investors don't base their decisions purely on breathless "India Shining" reports, and a five-minute visit to any Indian city will confirm the fact that the country is abysmally run. So what's new?

So I see no particular need to breastbeat or feel ashamed of this. I would love it if this furore was used to make some fundamental changes in the standard of our governance. Unfortunately, I think in the long run this is too small a matter to result in any fundamental changes.

For NRIs who feel pangs of shame for their long-left motherland, I'd say you should take with a sense of humour and join your neighbours and colleagues in making fun of our mismanagement of this small event.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 24 Sep 2010 18:32

Abhijeet,
Good post. Mainly because I agree with you on several things and especially on

I would love it if this furore was used to make some fundamental changes in the standard of our governance. Unfortunately, I think in the long run this is too small a matter to result in any fundamental changes.

But I disagree with you on

join your neighbours ... in making fun of our mismanagement of this small event.

Never.
I'm looking forward to records being broken - and they will be - and of emotional faces of athletes kissing the medals. As soon as this village problem is solved, the games will run well. Delhi looked pretty in 1982 during the Asiad and it will now also.

I'm hoping and praying that in a few days the initial problems will only be a bad memory. They will be replaced by good ones.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 24 Sep 2010 18:57

They will be replaced by good ones.

Exactly what the likes of Kalmadi et al are counting on as well. People will watch games and forget the scam and the massive loot they did

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Sep 2010 19:02

^^ With top athletes pulling out, Aren't we looking at some sort of super set of National games now.
If these games are later declared success by any stretch of imagination (Which most likely would happen), trust me, all will be forgiven and we will go back to Kalmadi-Gill-Bhanot-Dixshit lootfest.
In few weeks time news channels and News Papers would have moved onto Ram-Janam bhumi verdict and then election cycle in various states and then elections in USA.
This is the only time when we will get to make noise at least on BRF if nowhere else.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 24 Sep 2010 19:02

Exactly what the likes of Kalmadi et al are counting on as well.

The difference probably is the motivation between behind it.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 24 Sep 2010 19:36

PM slams Dikshit, Gill at emergency Games meet, results start showing

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh chaired an emergency meeting at this residence on Thursday night to tackle the Commonwealth Games and made no secret of his anguish, and anger, over the shoddy preparations that have marred the build-up to the October 3 to 14 extravaganza.
With all the reports of "filth" in the Games Village really hitting the country's image hard, he took Sports Minister M S Gill and even Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit to task. According to sources Lt. Governor of New Delhi Tejinder Khanna was "shivering" while responding to him .

- Commonwealth Games 2010

A senior source in the government said the PM was so upset by the inefficiency of the Games' organising committee that he was not ready to listen to excuses and even bluntly told Gill to keep quiet.

Dr Singh, who is indeed echoing the feelings of many Indians, said he doesn't want further debate on the shoddy preparations.

Normally he never loses his cool, but the acute embarrassment Suresh Kalmadi , Dikshit and Gill have brought upon the country could no longer be taken lightly in the corridors of power.

Salvaging efforts are being supervised by Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar and the Group of Ministers.

At the meeting, Dr Singh was informed that 97 per cent of the work at various venues was complete and wherever there are glitchesm private contractors have been called in to sort out the matter.

He directed Dikshit, Gill and Urban Development Minister S Jaipal Reddy to make sure that there is no further embarrassment.

It now seems that things are falling into place, as most of the participating nations have agreed to fly to Delhi. On Friday morning the arrival of 60-plus athletes from Great Britain brought welcome relief to the organisers.

"We are excited," said their manager.

Commonwealth Games Federation chief Mike Fennell will submit his final report on India's preparedness for the Games on Saturday.

In and around all the venues, security guards are in position. The Barapullah bridge that will transport athletes to the Jawaharlal Nehru stadium will be inaugurated later on Friday.

That's the first whiff of fresh air in the depressing build-up to the Games.

A security guard at the Barapullah bridge, manning the signal system near Nizamuddin area, summed up the mood. Looking to the sunny sky, he said, "Mausam badal raha hai [the weather is changing]!"

PM is too late to wake up.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2010 19:38

The damage to GoDelhi, and UPA II has already done and hopefully Delhi public will understand this setup for what it is and punish them in the next elections.

I hope CWG will be successful due to the hard work of Delhi-labors and whole-nation's prayers...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2010 19:44

Vina, Stop taking Rahul Mehta's name. He doesn't often visit the forum. besides he has been shown to be correct and has run fro office unlike his critics.

Thanks,

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 24 Sep 2010 19:49

I wish the Games go on to become a success. Hang the guilty later.

That said, I have never cringed at the thought of what my colleagues at work will say today about India...until the last week or so. Probably the same goes for many other NRI BRFites.

Also, I never thought I'd see the day when the Bakis have their own equivalent of BENIS, unfortunately on a topic that reinforces all their notions about Indian hygiene.

Time for the "defiant PR" approach..."yes, there were errors made, we are now OK, full speed ahead".

But remember to hang the guilty later.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 24 Sep 2010 19:49

Jagga,

PM is too late to wake up.

Better late...