People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Sep 2010 09:25

China criticizes planned US-ASEAN statement on South China Sea

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... HduZ_6vTdQ

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 22 Sep 2010 13:20

China, Japan, America by Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/13/opini ... yt&emc=rss

China is muscling in to a new world order and strategic shifts are inevitable - the US is not immune to the Chinese weight in economic affairs, leave alone India

And in a depressed world economy, any country running an artificial trade surplus is depriving other nations of much-needed sales and jobs. Again, anyone who asserts otherwise is claiming that China is somehow exempt from the economic logic that has always applied to everyone else.

So what should we be doing? U.S. officials have tried to reason with their Chinese counterparts, arguing that a stronger currency would be in China’s own interest. They’re right about that: an undervalued currency promotes inflation, erodes the real wages of Chinese workers and squanders Chinese resources. But while currency manipulation is bad for China as a whole, it’s good for politically influential Chinese companies — many of them state-owned. And so the currency manipulation goes on.

Time and again, U.S. officials have announced progress on the currency issue; each time, it turns out that they’ve been had. Back in June, Timothy Geithner, the Treasury secretary, praised China’s announcement that it would move to a more flexible exchange rate. Since then, the renminbi has risen a grand total of 1, that’s right, 1 percent against the dollar — with much of the rise taking place in just the past few days, ahead of planned Congressional hearings on the currency issue. And since the dollar has fallen against other major currencies, China’s artificial cost advantage has actually increased.

China uses muscle instead of diplomacy because it's their default mode of handling conflicts - to me, from an econ perspective, strategic discussions here reflect the broader economic discussions I am aware of, caused by China's muscle flexing.

Aside from unjustified financial fears, there’s a more sinister cause of U.S. passivity: business fear of Chinese retaliation.

Consider a related issue: the clearly illegal subsidies China provides to its clean-energy industry. These subsidies should have led to a formal complaint from American businesses; in fact, the only organization willing to file a complaint was the steelworkers union. Why? As The Times reported, “multinational companies and trade associations in the clean energy business, as in many other industries, have been wary of filing trade cases, fearing Chinese officials’ reputation for retaliating against joint ventures in their country and potentially denying market access to any company that takes sides against China.

Similar intimidation has surely helped discourage action on the currency front. So this is a good time to remember that what’s good for multinational companies is often bad for America, especially its workers.

"

There are many cards Indian strategists can play - this is a dynamic world and we can make common cause with those who share our fears

So here’s the question: Will U.S. policy makers let themselves be spooked by financial phantoms and bullied by business intimidation? Will they continue to do nothing in the face of policies that benefit Chinese special interests at the expense of both Chinese and American workers? Or will they finally, finally act? Stay tuned.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 22 Sep 2010 15:43

^^^
If the federal reserve were to buy even half of the estimated (US$ 1.2 trillion) of T-Bonds, that China holds, that would jack up the world supply of dollars. I am not even considering the mortgage backed bonds that China holds. This would result in a high inflation, if not hyper inflation for America. One more casualty would be the so called great quantitative easing being carried out by the Federal Reserve. For a country, i.e. US, which has just exited recession, it would mean a nightmare. For China it would be worse. Overnight its biggest market would evaporate. There will be thousands , if not millions, of factory workers out of jobs.

And what do disgruntled, out-of-work factory workers do best?

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Sep 2010 16:50

arun wrote:X Posted from the International Nuclear watch thread.

P.R. China seems hell bent on cocking a snook at the Nuclear Supplier Group, of which she is also a member, in order to supply nuclear reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Reuters quoting a VP working for China National Nuclear Corp (CNNC) :

China in talks to export Pakistan bigger nuke plant -CNNC

X Posted from the International Nuclear watch thread.

Further developments on PR China‘s bid to supply nuclear power reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

PR China silent on its obligation of obtaining NSG approval for supply nuclear power reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan despite voluntarily joining the NSG. PR China‘s Foreign Ministry issues a statement which is silent on the need of NSG approval:

China, Pakistan civilian nuclear cooperation consistent with int'l obligations: Chinese FM

Thomas D'Agostino, U.S. Under Secretary for Nuclear Security insists that NSG approval is required for PR China’s supply of Nuclear Reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Atom body should address China-Pakistan deal -- U.S.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Sep 2010 18:56

Thomas D'Agostino, U.S. Under Secretary for Nuclear Security insists that NSG approval is required for PR China’s supply of Nuclear Reactors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Atom body should address China-Pakistan deal -- U.S.

If not what, sri D'Agostino? Another dossier, didya say? Yup, I thought so. LOL.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Sep 2010 19:07

Hari Seldon wrote: If not what, sri D'Agostino? Another dossier, didya say? Yup, I thought so. LOL.

If not, NSG stops providing PRC with any nuclear materials and technology.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Sep 2010 19:12

^^^ Do you seriously believe that's going to happen?
IMO, the chances are a little better than those of finding water on the sun. But just a little.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Sep 2010 19:26

Well..Japan has 2 reasons to snap its nuclear ties China (1) Proliferation to Pakistan da proliferator (2) the ongoing Senkaku Island dispute

http://www.nti.org/db/china/nca.htm

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Sep 2010 19:28

China will sooner or later go for a public humiliation of Japan for WW2 crimes
thats what also worries Tokyo

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 22 Sep 2010 20:00

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 606330.cms

Rescued MLA to take up Kailash ordeal with PM

" China should not treat Indian pilgrims as enemies," said the 55-year-old legislator, who is flying back to New Delhi on Wednesday after being stranded in "inhuman living conditions" in Tibet due to bad weather. "The Kailash yatra is a religious journey and Indian pilgrims should not be subjected to harassment. The Chinese government has to make the journey easier, they have to be friendlier and more accommodating with permits."

Though the current batch of pilgrims suffered no casualties, in the past the high altitude of Tibet, extreme cold, uncertain weather and xenophobic authorities have combined to land travellers in severe trouble.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 22 Sep 2010 23:43

Arunachal Pradesh accuses China of incursions

The government in India's frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh Wednesday accused China of making at least four incursions in the past one month and said the issue was brought to the notice of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

"The Chinese army travels on muleback and there were mule tracks noticed in the area," Sanjay said.{Shame on China}

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 23 Sep 2010 08:16

(NYT)In Dispute, China Blocks Rare Earth Exports to Japan

China is really upping the ante, here.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 23 Sep 2010 09:02

Sanjay M wrote: (NYT)In Dispute, China Blocks Rare Earth Exports to Japan

China is really upping the ante, here.

The Article wrote: China mines 93 percent of the world’s rare earth minerals, and more than 99 percent of the world’s supply of some of the most prized rare earths, which sell for several hundred dollars a pound.

Did not know this. I think both sides got themselves into a bind that they can't get out of. If I were the Japanese, I'll charge the captain under international law and then deport him as the sentence. Everyone's happy. But alas!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Sep 2010 09:08

So PRC's weapon of first resort in its post-modern war with japan is to unleash rare-earth sanctions.

Wow.

The CCP is even more aggressive than I first thought. Good, good. I'd be more wary facing an opponent that cares more for result than for gallery-play and H&D.

Egging the intellectual and strategic giants running PRC policy appears good policy at this juncture, perhaps. Great going, Beijingoes! Full steam ahead, I say....yay.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 23 Sep 2010 09:08

I would not sweat this. The only reason China does so is because it is a dirty job and they do it cheaper than others. India should perhaps donate some (presumably the thorium sands of Kerala also have rare earths).

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Sep 2010 09:29

China’s Disputes in Asia Buttress Influence of U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/world ... china.html

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 23 Sep 2010 09:56

sanjaykumar wrote:I would not sweat this. The only reason China does so is because it is a dirty job and they do it cheaper than others. India should perhaps donate some (presumably the thorium sands of Kerala also have rare earths).

India IS the second largest producer of rare earth elements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element

But this stuff is like oil - nature has dumped it without concern for Indian geo politics

China has used access to this material as a leverage to get MNCs to invest preferentially in China - GM is quoted in the article, but business gossip names many more. And that is spurring higher cost mining destinations like Australia and Brazil.

Note that companies using rare earths tend to be based in either America or Japan - access to raw materials follows strategic strength. Strategic strength does not, necessarily, follow from business success.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 23 Sep 2010 21:45

Sanjay M wrote:(NYT)In Dispute, China Blocks Rare Earth Exports to Japan

China is really upping the ante, here.

PRC seems to have really phuked themselves very badly here. If this report is true, then the whole world now knows that PRC will use RareEarth Metal sanctions against countries that it doesnt like. And the list of countries that do use rare earth metals is very long and distinguished. I am 1000% sure, counter measures are now being planned by all the heavy weight countries. Some countries like amirkhan will be proactive in securing the supply chain.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Sep 2010 05:32

Chinese religion through Hindu eyes

by Benoy Kumar Sarkar

http://www.archive.org/details/chineser ... t018974mbp

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 24 Sep 2010 07:13

(NYT)China Is Blocking Minerals, Executives Say

(Reuters)Japan Ministry: No ban on China rare earth export to Japan

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 24 Sep 2010 11:40

Looks like Japan blinks. What a letdown ...

Japan to release Chinese boat captain
Prosecutors say no charges in collision near disputed islands; China holds 4 Japanes

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39338298/ns ... iapacific/

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 24 Sep 2010 12:52

ManjaM wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:(NYT)In Dispute, China Blocks Rare Earth Exports to Japan

China is really upping the ante, here.
PRC seems to have really phuked themselves very badly here. If this report is true, then the whole world now knows that PRC will use RareEarth Metal sanctions against countries that it doesnt like. And the list of countries that do use rare earth metals is very long and distinguished. I am 1000% sure, counter measures are now being planned by all the heavy weight countries. Some countries like amirkhan will be proactive in securing the supply chain.

Yea, like the thought of China blocking REM export never crossed those countries' minds before this. Give me a break. This "sanction" never even happened anyway.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 24 Sep 2010 12:52

.....all the hu ha hi on Japs side gone up in the air?

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 24 Sep 2010 16:07

Venkarl wrote: .....all the hu ha hi on Japs side gone up in the air?

The idea of "face" is critical to the Chinese. Japanese capitulation in this instance has given them a lot of face. Face is also their jugular. We can get them by engineering loss of face. Engineer enough "loss of face" episodes and the regime starts to teeter on the brink. Happened to the Qing dynasty - defeated by the Japanese, repeatedly humiliated by Western powers, their inability to save face for the Chinese triggered Sun Yat-Sen's rebellion against them.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Sep 2010 16:23

If you pay attention to the interaction between the PRC and the ROW. You will see that the PRC tries to make the other side loose face. whether it was Obama at the climate sumit or bush with the EP3 incident.

If the other side does not back down then the PRC will loose face.

This reminds me of what Churchil said regarding communists, this aplies to the PRC as well, "The whole purpose of negotating with the communists is to prevent them from doing to you what you are not doing to them".

If the GOI and the ROW understands this, the PRC can be cut down to size and quickly.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Sep 2010 17:29

ashi wrote:Looks like Japan blinks. What a letdown ...

Let us not forget the Japs are as much oriental and as much face-loving and with equally long memories as the Chinese...this insult is actually allah-sent. They will now quietly plan their revenge and strategy...and guess who is going to benefit?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 24 Sep 2010 18:07

"but I see these as problems that China need to deal with."

Did you hear the story of the Indian and the Chinese? The Indian says, "In our country, we have the freedom to stand outside the Indian parliament and criticise the Indian prime minister Mr.Singh". The Chinese then says, "We have the same freedom. We can stand outside the presidential building in Beijing and criticise the Indian prime minister Mr.Singh"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2010 19:20

PRC thinks India a democratic mess

'China thinks India is a democratic mess'
A secret world

All our lives are touched by China these days.

With Chinese toys finding their way into the hands of tiny tots even in India's remotest villages, the Dragon is practically everywhere in India.

And yet it is shocking how little we know about our most formidable neighbour. More so at a time when China is at its liveliest in decades.

The economic surge that has made it the world's second biggest economy has not only triggered a surge in freedom, debates and nationalism, but also in corruption and other ills that afflict societies right across the world. Most of us, though, continue to remain in the dark about these developments or cling on to old assumptions.

The lack of knowledge stems right at the very top.

The protean Communist Party, the moving force behind every move China makes, has managed to confound most experts and escape their rigid definitions.

Not anymore. The workings of this secretive organisation has now been put firmly in the spotlight by Richard McGregor, former Financial Times China bureau chief and the author of the illuminating

The Party: The Secret World of China's Communist Rulers.

The unique book, which explains 'the party's functions, structures and how political power is exercised through them' in a deeply engaging way with the aid of a rich cast of characters, has of course been banned in mainland China.

In an interview to R Rajesh Kumar, the author talks of the difficulties he had in chronicling the 'least understood and most important political phenomenon in the world today'.

He also shares his views on the challenges the Party faces and on the China-India equation.

Knitting it together

You begin by terming your book the story of a curious journalist trying to open a secretive system's many locked doors, and looking inside. How difficult was it picking those locks?

To be honest, I don't think I did pick the locks, at least not the really big ones. It is not easy to find genuine insiders to talk openly and at length about how the party worked. But once you focus on particular topics and in particular on structures, and are alert to any manner of information about them - such as on the Organisation Department and the anti-corruption bureau - you can accumulate quite a deal.

It is not unlike knitting a sweater - you get one strand of wool here; another there; soon you have enough for a sleeve and eventually for the whole sweater. But it takes time and the painstaking accumulation of detail.

The official Chinese media carries quite detailed accounts of scandals and the like once they have been resolved. That can be useful for piecing things together. The party-controlled papers have lots in them about internal debates. It is also a good idea to head out of Beijing to the provinces, where people can be a little more relaxed about talking about how the system works. Finally, there is lots of good material to be found in Hong Kong and Taiwan, both very open places compared to China.

I tried to write about what I was sure of and not to speculate too much about what I couldn't get to, such as the personal relationships between members of the Politburo and the deals they do on policy and appointments. Focus on the structures, and the rest will follow.

Enforcing loyalty

The Party has been swelling its ranks - its membership grew to almost 78 million in June 2009. You write of how it has even offered money to lure new members. Does this not reek of a safety-in-numbers approach that has gone too far?

It is really about the need to ensure total coverage of all government posts, which in a way is about safety in numbers. Has it gone too far? In a sense it has, because the public payroll has become bloated so it is impossible to raise official salaries as the flow-on cost to the budget would be too high. And low official salaries encourage corruption.

Party officials, like you mention, have to undergo training at the nationwide network of 2800 training schools before gaining promotions. How important a role do these trainers play?

Some of the training, especially at the three centrally-controlled party schools, has the ability to broaden an official's outlook. The curriculum can be very wide, ranging from geo-politics to trade negotiations to how Congress (in the US) works. Courses also give Beijing a chance to educate officials on issues such as the environment and health care reforms. At a broader level, however, it is mainly about enforcing loyalty to the party line on sensitive issues.

Corruption... and the Army

On the one hand, the Party is recruiting as many members as they feel the need to. On the other hand, they are making a great effort to stay in the shadows. Doesn't this betray a certain degree of fear and confusion?

Remember, most senior party officials have roles in government. The government operates ostensibly in the open. It is the party and party departments - which are separate from the formal government - that reside in the shadows. A relatively small percentage of the party's 78 million members (I couldn't give you an exact figure) work solely in the party bureaucracy. These people are determined to maintain a low profile, whereas the government is becoming slightly more transparent.

China is now a very corrupt nation. I am reminded of what Professor Yan Xuetong told you in his denunciation of present-day China - 'As long as society is fully engulfed by money worship, you will have a lot of social crimes, but no political violence.' Is this the very reason why the Party condones corruption?

I am not sure I would say they condone corruption. I think corruption is inevitable in any society growing as quickly as China and with government decision-making dominated by a largely unreviewable administrative system. In my book, I tried to illustrate a more systemic reason for entrenched corruption - the refusal of the party to allow an independent body to investigate senior officials.

Moving on to the Army, you mention how the PLA's (People's Liberation Army) formal budget has been increased at double-digit rates every year since the early nineties. In your afterword, you also talk of the resurgent nationalism in China. Does this mean that neighbours like India have to be prepared for a more bellicose China?

Neighbours have to be prepared to deal with a more assertive, nationalistic China. That will be difficult for everyone. I might add that China will have to deal with a more assertive and nationalistic India! That will be a challenge for them as well. But China also has a deeply practical bent as well. Their leaders' main focus is on their legion of internal problems. I see little sense of this in the headline debates that come out in India about China.

Competition and change

You mention how competition between localities has been a prime driver of growth in China. But hasn't this also created further fissures within the Party?

It creates some fissures, of course, but the economic benefits outweigh the problems, so far. And while the Party allows some freelancing on the economy, it allows none on core political issues. It doesn't matter who you are - you cannot break ranks in public on issues like Tibet, Taiwan and Xinjiang without the system coming down on you like a ton of bricks.

How much of a change has the arrival of technology - particularly, mobile phones and the internet - brought about in China? I ask this because Lee Kuan Yew, the Singapore Minister Mentor, mentioned it as one of the significant changes the Party will have to grapple with.

The thousands of people who confidently predicted that the internet, and other technologies, would bring down the Party have all been proved wrong. It turns out that the internet is just as powerful a tool in the hands of the state as it is for an individual. Sure, the Party has to grapple with it, but on the evidence so far, it has done so successfully.

China and India

In the book you highlight how the Indian growth model - less investment and higher relative growth - has been more robust than the Chinese model, which you say has 'run out of puff'. This seems to be in sharp contrast to what somebody like George Soros had to say recently when he called China the great winner of the recession and the motor of the world economy...

I don't think there is any contradiction between what I say and what Soros has said. The Chinese have an unparalleled ability to mobilise resources in the system. At a time like the financial crisis, this holds them in good stead. But you can't keep doing this forever. About 90 per cent of growth in China in 2009 in the wake of the pump-priming that followed the financial crisis came from investment. This is not sustainable. India's model has not proved to be more robust so far, but it has a greater chance of being more sustainable into the future.

Talking of India, how does China view us?

All the cliches are true. China thinks India is a democratic mess, without really seeking to understand why it is a democracy in the first place. But I think the view has been changing in recent years. Sad to say, but India's nuclear bomb gained New Delhi respect in Beijing. Certainly, Chinese strategists complained bitterly to me that Beijing did not respect New Delhi until India had the bomb. They believed that China should have tried to engage India much earlier than that. India's technological advances and companies have helped change the country's image in China. I think the PLA has some respect for the Indian military, especially the navy. But this is an area in which China is gaining fast on what once would have been regarded as a more sophisticated Indian naval force. I think relations with China will always be difficult. The two countries' political systems are starkly different. There is Tibet, of course, a super-sensitive issue in China. And the territorial dispute gives hardliners on both sides a platform from which to attack each other. It is very hard for the middle-ground to innovate in such a climate because they are always putting out fires.

Gaining an understanding

The Party is decaying while it is evolving, you quote the author Yang Jisheng as saying. He is not sure which side will end up on top. You, though, show greater faith in the Party's ability to evolve. Wouldn't this evolution mean downsizing the government and the party? Letting go further, as even establishment figures like Professor Zhou Tianyong have argued...

Good question. What does evolution look like? I think the Party's control over the 'three Ps' - the PLA, Personnel and Propaganda - will remain inviolate. Around that core, there is much you can do, some of which is real and some of which is cosmetic. There is already lots being done on an experimental basis in lots of localities around China now. China has experiments in so-called 'deliberative democracy' in many places, where officials are called in to hear detailed feedback from select citizens on the local government's performance. Some elections within local assemblies for the Mayor's positions are being held. The local media is increasingly open in some places for complaints about the government.

Needless to say, the increased scrutiny does not generally apply to the Party. Evolution has its limits in China. That is not a problem yet but could be in a decade or so when the economy matures and slows.

The importance of learning about the Party at a time when China is playing such a pivotal role in the world cannot be emphasised enough. But I guess it's only fitting that you seal the deal by telling us why you feel everyone ought to read your book.

Since you ask, I would (immodestly) say that my book is the only genuinely accessible up-to-date tome available on what is really the least understood and most important political phenomenon in the world today. It's very simple - if you don't understand the Party, then you will not understand China.

Its an sans Allah Mukhbarat gone wild! Marx's dream outcome. Its the CPC that needs to be targeted.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 24 Sep 2010 22:56

Arihant wrote:
Venkarl wrote: .....all the hu ha hi on Japs side gone up in the air?
The idea of "face" is critical to the Chinese. Japanese capitulation in this instance has given them a lot of face. Face is also their jugular. We can get them by engineering loss of face. Engineer enough "loss of face" episodes and the regime starts to teeter on the brink. Happened to the Qing dynasty - defeated by the Japanese, repeatedly humiliated by Western powers, their inability to save face for the Chinese triggered Sun Yat-Sen's rebellion against them.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that repeated defeats and humiliation by foreign powers would weaken any government's hold on power.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Sep 2010 01:40

UNSC support central to global cooperation, India tells China

http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/25/stories ... 621600.htm

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 25 Sep 2010 02:41

Arihant wrote: We can get them by engineering loss of face. Engineer enough "loss of face" episodes and the regime starts to teeter on the brink. Happened to the Qing dynasty - defeated by the Japanese, repeatedly humiliated by Western powers, their inability to save face for the Chinese triggered Sun Yat-Sen's rebellion against them.

You're gonna shame the Chinese to death? What?

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"but I see these as problems that China need to deal with."

Did you hear the story of the Indian and the Chinese? The Indian says, "In our country, we have the freedom to stand outside the Indian parliament and criticise the Indian prime minister Mr.Singh". The Chinese then says, "We have the same freedom. We can stand outside the presidential building in Beijing and criticise the Indian prime minister Mr.Singh"

Touche! Sir. Well played. Freedom. You got me there. You're right, once again. I humblely retract my statements and apologise for my ignorance.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Sep 2010 03:09

x-posted from "Nation on the march":

Despite denials of competing with, or comparing themselves with, India, the Chinese have done and continue to do many things with the idea of matching, countering or surpassing India. One can think offhand of the establishment of an Antarctica research unit a few months after India started one; the scrambling to launch a moon mission after India announced plans for its own; learning English; getting into software and call centre outsourcing; diamond polishing; alternative energy like wind and solar; astronomy both radio and optical; plans to set up institutes like the IIT's, and probably several more. In fact, apart from nuclear bombs and missiles, it's very hard to point to the reverse occurring- a single modern industry/activity or service where India followed China.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 25 Sep 2010 03:15

Varoon Shekhar wrote:x-posted from "Nation on the march":

Despite denials of competing with, or comparing themselves with, India, the Chinese have done and continue to do many things with the idea of matching, countering or surpassing India. One can think offhand of the establishment of an Antarctica research unit a few months after India started one; the scrambling to launch a moon mission after India announced plans for its own; learning English; getting into software and call centre outsourcing; diamond polishing; alternative energy like wind and solar; astronomy both radio and optical; plans to set up institutes like the IIT's, and probably several more. In fact, apart from nuclear bombs and missiles, it's very hard to point to the reverse occurring- a single modern industry/activity or service where India followed China.

Interesting. So it appears that Indians are innovators...and as always, like in the last few thousand years, Chinese once again have to learn everything from the Indians. We have a lot to catch up on in these fields. I just hope the idiots in Beijing would spend more money in these fields, so one day we could catch up to the Indians.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2010 03:19

Varoon There is lot of research going on into studying PRC and what makes it tick. The amount is not as much as FSU as its a different challenge but nevertheless a lot of effort is being allocated.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Sep 2010 03:26

The comment was made to refute the idea, which a few Indians themselves hold, that China does not follow India in anything, nor tries to compete with/match/surpass India in anything. The evidence shows something quite different.

'so one day we could catch up to the Indians'. But India definitely had these things first, before China did. China was not prompted by Denmark or Madagascar or Peru in any of these activities. India alone. Why should it surprise you or anyone that China indeed does try to catch up( and try to surpass) India in all these industries and services? Would you feel more proud and good if China was looking at the US or Germany in all these areas? But they weren't looking at either of those countries!

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 25 Sep 2010 03:29

China competes with every body. LOL. If we see a good idea we take it. Of cause we're competing with India. Why do you think China tries so hard to block India in? You should study this chinese game, the westerners called "go". Explains a lot of Chinese actions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2010 03:32

It only confirms Hegel's observation.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Sep 2010 03:35

Good, you've just confirmed why India should see China as a threat, or a challenge, and should prepare militarily for it with missiles and sufficient nuclear weapons.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 25 Sep 2010 03:39

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Good, you've just confirmed why India should see China as a threat, or a challenge, and should prepare militarily for it with missiles and sufficient nuclear weapons.

The Chinese kids competed with the Indian kids back in engineering school too. We didn't stab eachother neither.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Sep 2010 03:44

"The Chinese kids competed with the Indian kids back in engineering school too. We didn't stab eachother neither."

Just hope that Pakistan or any of its non-state actors do not use any of the China gifted or China assisted nuclear weapons on India. Because that is a point of no return. India would then have to retaliate against both Pakistan and China and probably North Korea as well. The consequences, needless to say, will be devastating for Asia and the world.