J & K news and discussion

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2010 21:08

^ It is one thing to give speeches in Parliament and a different thing to manage a state (even a good one). One has to be a natural leader at such things. Training can take a OA or RG only to some extent...

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 26 Sep 2010 21:53

I am actually a silent observer on this site.

And my views on Kashmir are that the Kashmir Valley should be handed over to Pakistan.

We dont need Kashmir in our country. It only costs us the lives of our soldiers, our money and our reputation.

Fvck Kashmir.

And just to let you know I am a Kashmir State Subject and I have property in Kashmir and I grew up in Kashmir. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq was one class senior to me in school. My parents live in Kashmir. And I am neither a Kashmiri Muslim or a Kashmiri Pandit.

And I have been drinking.

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Sep 2010 21:54

And I have been drinking.

Kindly get over the booze and hangover tomorrow and witness for yourself about what you typed while you were drunk!!!

If loosing lives for keeping country as one is a waste, then the K-valley, entire NE and Chattisgarh also should be gifted away!
Goddamn Pak will then start a new thing in Jammu and rest of the places in India where it has sleepers if Desh gave in to their blackmail and handed them the valley on a platter!!

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 26 Sep 2010 21:58

sum wrote:

And Sir you can go to mp.net to check my posts with the same user name.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2010 21:59

Pratyush wrote:Whats with target AFSPA by all the morons of the Cashmier ghati.

Thats at the heart of this crisis, and this order originates from Kiyani's office in GHQ, Rawilpindi; with Umar Faukroo, Geelani being the messengers, and scared s@it for his life Omar Abdullah followed suit.

TSP is using importance to US's AfPak strategy to change the status quo in Kashmir; thats the game plan. With the Pakistanization and Isalmo fascism deep rooted in the valley, its not difficult for a resourceful intelligence agency like ISI to engineer the kind of mayhem we have been seeing past 3 months. Every move, every demand, you name it is scripted in Rawilpindi and faithfully parroted by the scum like Fukroo and Geelani.

India is already pretty much out of Afganisthan, I mean in terms of any teeth, thanks to MMS, and TSP wants even any token Indian presence out. So strategic depth restored there. On the eastern front, TSP wants a favorable change in status quo, so once AfPak concludes, US runs away after creating all the mess, TSP can be back to its 90's game of LET attacks, nuke war bla bla. Only this time with all the moolah and US weapons at its disposal, TSP could be even more lethal. And of course having retreated with TSPA in its hip pocket, US can sit back and watch the tamasha from afar and do its periodic equal equal balancing act.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2010 22:00

hulaku wrote: ...
And I have been drinking.

You definitely are.

Which cashmere you want to give to Pakis? The one you live or the one you went to school to?

If we give cashmere to Pakis, then they will ask for your house too.

If violence should be the reason to give up a region then shoshouldnt we be taking over pakistan, given the violence there?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Sep 2010 22:17

Retweeted @Tarunvijay

In Jammu 17 young men were killed in police firing during Amarnath agitation. None compensated. Now five lakh each to stone peltors

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 26 Sep 2010 22:18

The thing is that most of the people writing on this thread except jamwal have no clue about the ground reality in Kashmir. And when people here refer it to as cashmere what can I say ?

Face the reality the Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule.

Why do we need need them in our country ?

For me the life of even 1 Indian security operative is moe than these ungrateful wretches and the Vale they live in.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 26 Sep 2010 22:24

Hari Seldon wrote:Retweeted @Tarunvijay
In Jammu 17 young men were killed in police firing during Amarnath agitation. None compensated. Now five lakh each to stone peltors

If true, this is disgusting.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Sep 2010 22:27

RamaY wrote:^ It is one thing to give speeches in Parliament and a different thing to manage a state (even a good one). One has to be a natural leader at such things. Training can take a OA or RG only to some extent...

What training??

Watching the pater faqup things??

If that is training, then both have a bright future.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 26 Sep 2010 22:51

^^Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule

++ 1

I totally agree with this View.Especially the highlighted part.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 26 Sep 2010 23:05

hulaku wrote:Face the reality the Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule.

Why do we need need them in our country ?

Simple. If this part of the subcontinent is not in India, it would be in Pakistan. And we have even greater trouble with Pakistan because then nukes come into play.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2010 23:08

hulaku wrote:The thing is that most of the people writing on this thread except jamwal have no clue about the ground reality in Kashmir. And when people here refer it to as cashmere what can I say ?

Face the reality the Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule.

Why do we need need them in our country ?

For me the life of even 1 Indian security operative is moe than these ungrateful wretches and the Vale they live in.

I don't understand your logic. Its a land which Hindus have legitimate claim to. The Muslim wahabis living there don't like Hindus. So the solution is for Hindus to leave? Why not a better way. The Wahhabis can migrate to TSP, I think Hindus would gladly facilitate that. And how about shooting them at gun point?

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 26 Sep 2010 23:30

^^^
Sir the Hindus have already left/ driven out / killed.

What could be a better punishment for these imbeciles than to hand them over to Paquistan?

And treat every Kashmiri Muslim in India where they have shops in all 5* hotels and tourist destinations as Pakistanis and tell them to leave and join the Land of the Pure.

People ranting here doesnt help. See the reality and do it. As I said before I dont want to see a single soldier of ours to lose his life because of the aspirations of these Kashmiri Islaimists. They deserve to be a part of the the piss and pork land so be it. Why is it so hard for people to understand ?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 26 Sep 2010 23:36

The people in Islamabad who control the stone pelters are trying to provoke a massacare, and that is exactly what we cannot give them. Any soldier / policeman under attack must defend himself and his comrades, but we must not act like the Chinese army or the Pakistani army or indeed the US army in Vietnam, etc. With each passing day, this 'movement' is getting discredited and disspirited, as they are experts at shooting themselves in the foot. Their islamist two nation theory is torn to pieces and their sponsor Pakistan is filthier (if it were possible) than a commonwelath games athletes village toliet.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Sep 2010 23:37

hulaku wrote:^^^
Sir the Hindus have already left/ driven out / killed.

What could be a better punishment for these imbeciles than to hand them over to Paquistan?

And treat every Kashmiri Muslim in India where they have shops in all 5* hotels and tourist destinations as Pakistanis and tell them to leave and join the Land of the Pure.

People ranting here doesnt help. See the reality and do it. As I said before I dont want to see a single soldier of ours to lose his life because of the aspirations of these Kashmiri Islaimists. They deserve to be a part of the the piss and pork land so be it. Why is it so hard for people to understand ?

hulaku ji,

The land stays, it has always been ours.

The WKMs can go if they so choose. They are the outsiders.

Why is it so hard for you to understand?

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 26 Sep 2010 23:44

^^^^ Sirji

I give you a link of my discussion with some purelanders and goras on Kashmir. Go through it

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... adly-riots

And this
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost5205550

And my favourite
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost5194933

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 26 Sep 2010 23:51

Mr. Halaku,

Give Kashmir away is not going to fly on this forum, please try another forum!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Sep 2010 23:52

RamaY wrote:
brihaspati wrote:The declared outline of steps, as read out by PC, shows that any earlier pressure to go for "autonomy" immediately has had to be shelved because of possibly strong internal fighting. However this is only round one. Overkill from the separatist side made those who were behind them rather embarrassed and lost for words. But the lobbying will start all over again after some more immediate face-saving action needed over CWG and the mosque-issue. The judiciary may help out in the latter, but CWG is a different ball-game with international legitimate authority sitting tightly on spot. Once attention shifts to these, renewed planning and action will start behind the scenes about "autonomy" and "azaadi".

Opening the unis and schools may not work out well. Most of them work under pressure from terrorists, and the security forces will be faced with even more difficult task of neutralizing moves now apparently coming out "spontaneously" by "kids" who have only "gone to learn" and from "places of learning".

MMS-ji may not be there in the long haul for the rest of the term. But the replacement is not ready either. The likely candidate with experience and ability will therefore be deemed unqualified because of his very qualifications. Interesting "no-man's-land" in politics. That may not be enough to stave off round two as a tie again.
Could "Ramjanmabhoomi for autonomous-Chashmere" be a possibility???

No not the first one. The judicial process perhaps "would like to see" a compromise solution at the "higher level" [not at the lower level] - that which kills the snake but does not break the stick. the stick is "votes" for a particular political grouping from a given "faith" and the snake is the "temple".

Autonomy will not be abandoned as a target - make no mistakes about it. It will be revived after reclaculations. Hopefully no one has made any under-the-table deal for "peace" at CWG in return for "greater" success at the courts plus autonomy.

The existing regime cannot allow the "janambhoomi" move to be vindicated even by "law". If they are forced to accept a pro-temple verdict then that will be represented by the WKK, and self-declared-secular brigade as huge political defeat and support for saffron. It neither pleases the pro-mosque front nor guarantees vote-swing from the non-green sector.

It can only allow pro-mosque outcome or construction of both. If they put it up for bargain against "autonomy" then that will be a huge blunder - for they lose temple as well as the valley. Taken together that could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 26 Sep 2010 23:55

The majority of the people of J&K wish to be a part of India. That is why they vote in large numbers in elections held under the ambit of the Indian constitution. Not that the territorial integrity of India is up for negotiations or anything, but we must not fall for the old lie that the people of J&K do not wish to be a part of India. The few hundred or a few thousand violent protesters causing the latest set of problems are not representative of the wishes of the people of J&K. It is a great pity that the peaceful majority has to suffer due to the actions of these stone throwing criminals.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2010 00:00

hulaku wrote:^^^^ Sirji

I give you a link of my discussion with some purelanders and goras on Kashmir. Go through it

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... adly-riots

The land is ours. The so called KMs came much later.

No amount of discussion can change that fact.

No sunni wahabi or gora can change it.

This is just the thin edge of the wedge. Too many Indian lives have been lost being reasonable.

That idiot omar who is responsible single handedly for this mess has just lost what ever support that he had when he targeted the IA for his failings.

This support was in India. He never had any support in the state he thinks that he rules.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 27 Sep 2010 00:03

Obviously none of you went through the links I provided.

What can I say ?

How many people in this discussion have ever met a Kashmiri or been to Kashmir let alone lived in Kashmir ?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 27 Sep 2010 00:06

hulaku wrote:Obviously none of you went through the links I provided.

What can I say ?

Like I said try another forum!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2010 00:07

hulaku wrote:Obviously none of you went through the links I provided.

What can I say ?

We have our POV.

What can we say??

We are staying put.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 27 Sep 2010 00:11

Funny thing hulaku. talking to some goras and pakis on some forum you figured out what kashmiri's want.
Bait somewhere else

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 27 Sep 2010 00:11

This is not PDF. Can anybody provide a rebuttal to what I have said ?

Telling me to go away will not solve the problem will it ?

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 27 Sep 2010 00:12

A Sharma wrote:Funny thing hulaku. talking to some goras and pakis on some forum you figured out what kashmiri's want.
Bait somewhere else

Well if you have missed out I am a Kashmiri

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Sep 2010 00:18

praksam wrote:^^Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule
++ 1I totally agree with this View.Especially the highlighted part.

Since religion is the main centre point, What about the same in reverse in whole of India? What is good for goose is good for g..er. Since its not possible right now in India , the battle must be fought till last Kashmiri Wahabi Jihadi Fasadi thate there exist no possibilty of new generation there to start over.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2010 00:22

hulaku wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Funny thing hulaku. talking to some goras and pakis on some forum you figured out what kashmiri's want.
Bait somewhere else
Well if you have missed out I am a Kashmiri

Is this condition of yours mutually exclusive with being Indian?? or is it some form of dual nationality??

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 27 Sep 2010 00:27

The problem is that "letting Kashmir go is going to be far more expensive than keeping Kashmir" - and this is not a story about pluralism or even the North East. Although, there are some linkages here.

Kashmir with any sort of autonomy or independence will simply become a Waziristan within Indian borders - with death tolls on nearby states being far higher than what we're beginning to see in non-FATA areas of Pakistan. We lose 300 people in car-accidents DAILY and have a large enough economy to manage the costs of holding on to Kashmir. I dont think a majority of Indians are spensing sleepless nights worrying about the deaths of stone throwers in the valley.

But, we cannot have a Waziristan within our borders.

A state cannot in the end make choices where the solution is far worse in terms of its consequences, than the problem itself. The fact that we we do not have a string enough leadership and have deep enough vote bank politics that determine political races in many places, ensures that the solutions being proposed only get multiplied in their negative impact.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 27 Sep 2010 00:28

Hulaku ji is right as to the current dominant sentiments in the valley. As I also say many times, if the silent majority do not come out to resist the actions of determined minority then there is really no way of knowing whether the silent majority is against or for what the determined minority is doing. In none of the violence against non-Muslims over the subcontinent engineered by Islamist gangs there were any substantial action by Muslim neighbours to save and protect their non-Muslim neighbours with whom they had apparently lived in perfect harmony before. In fact we have instances of collaboration in looting and abductions of women under the pretext of "Jihad".

So as long as the silent pro-India majority do not finish off the separatists themselves, we can never be really sure that they are inclined strongly against the separatists.

However, Hulaku jis reco about giving up the valley is unacceptable because of both traditional cultural reasons as well as geostrategic reasons. An independent Valley will not be strong enough to resist control by China or USA and UK or Pak or KSA or Afghan warlords. The independent existence in the international arena means India cannot intervene to stop the flow of funds and arms into the region which will be used to further expand Islamist power in the north of India.

I am curious as to whether Hulaku ji identifies with the intentions of his famous namesake who decimated Baghdadi Caliphate, and who was a Buddhist [by current scholarly consensus] and who ceaselessly tried to ally with Christian forces and Christian Europe but never really got the appropriate support from the Europeans against his life-long struggle to erase Islamist power.

Noting that history would be a good pointer to what can turn out in the case of J&K - where "Christian" Europe may have its own reasons and internal fights that will make various factiosn ally with the "Mamluks" of the modern period against any attempts at cleaning up an area of Islamism. If they can get an independent "kashmir" where Muslims dominate, they will have a field day.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Sep 2010 00:40

Hulaku saar, Don't get depressed. This tamasha by KMs to get public sympathy and eventual azaadi in India has backfired on them in a big way. Attitude of these so called unarmed freedom fighters has brought them nothing but ridicule and disgust even among their own community. Latest example being the migration of 100s of KM families to safer havens in Jammu and Nai Dilli. Considering that you are a Kashmir resident, you must be aware of the bickering going on within KM community as well as non-Kashmiri muslims within and outside the Valley. There is no doubt, that this 20-25% of J&K's population hates presence of non-Muslims and Indians but they are too weak and disorganised to channel their hatred into anything more dangerous than the current bout of stone-pelting. This too will fall apart once the sources of funding dry up and security forces are freed of restraints posed by MMS kind of politicians. There will always be many WKKs who will shed copious amounts of tears for these wretched hate-mongers, but India is too big a country to bow down to such stupid demands.
I don't think that I need to repeat what measures are needed as everything has been posted here by different members many times over.

You don't need to send these idiots to Pakistan to experience true Pakistaniyat. This place is already well on it's way. It started with ethnic cleansing of KPs, violent gun culture and now one group of Muslim (Geelanahi) calling another group of Muslims (Gujjars) non-muslims. It's just how you see these things. Certainly not a good thing, but reveals the true nature of these closet Islamist who hide their true faces with facades of Kashmiriyat and secular Sufi islam BS.

Talking of Mahbooba's land routes, which connected Kashmir to other parts of the world, central Asia, have been closed, somone I know is doing PHD (not the irrefutable higher hand kind) on this topic onlee. I hope these much needed land routes don't suffer the same fate as the ones that were opened in 2008 with Pakis not paying a s**t for the stuff that Kashmiris sent.

Retweeted @Tarunvijay
Quote:
In Jammu 17 young men were killed in police firing during Amarnath agitation. None compensated. Now five lakh each to stone peltors

People killed in Jammu were fighting for Indian flag while the Kashmiris were burning it. No prizes for guessing which side needs healing touch according to decision makers in goberment. This kind of appeasement is exactly whats encouraging these louts to commit even more acts of vandalism.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 27 Sep 2010 00:43

Prem wrote:
praksam wrote:^^Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule
++ 1I totally agree with this View.Especially the highlighted part.
the battle must be fought till last Kashmiri Wahabi Jihadi Fasadi thate there exist no possibilty of new generation there to start over.

I totally with you prem sir. They do not want to see the fact that the Hindus were inhabitants of this great land from eons and they have the gall to call it their place and want Hindus (Hindustan) to leave that place. Aap kitne bhi khushamat kar lijeye, Kutte ki doom tedi ki tedi rahegi.

There has to be an aggressive stand taken from the Indian Govt.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 27 Sep 2010 00:51

brihaspati jee

Your observations about me identifying with a certain gentleman who vanquished the Hashashins at Alamut and carried on to Baghdad to roll up the Caliph in a carpet and have a drunk party over him with people singing dual tonal songs are correct.

And he was a follower of Mongol shaminism and the religion of Changhez.

Anyway I am high on my horse mare fermented milk. Time to retire:)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Sep 2010 00:53

hulaku wrote:^^^
Sir the Hindus have already left/ driven out / killed.

What could be a better punishment for these imbeciles than to hand them over to Paquistan?

And treat every Kashmiri Muslim in India where they have shops in all 5* hotels and tourist destinations as Pakistanis and tell them to leave and join the Land of the Pure.

People ranting here doesnt help. See the reality and do it. As I said before I dont want to see a single soldier of ours to lose his life because of the aspirations of these Kashmiri Islaimists. They deserve to be a part of the the piss and pork land so be it. Why is it so hard for people to understand ?

A better option is to kick them out of India. If India starts vacating its land everytime a few thousand wahabi muslims demand, then we have enough wahabised muslims all over India to give it to Pakistan.

If one lives in a specific area that definitely gives one insight into local problems. But over time they become "koopastha mandukas" (frogs in the well; or even worse, frogs in a boiling pot). People outside can offer more realistic (and alternative) views.

It is very ingenuine for people to claim better knowledge of everything just because they are in armed forces or hail from a specific area - Please present additional info and alternative views instead of claiming un-verifiyable knowledge...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Sep 2010 01:12

Excellent articulation on how India should go about with KMs. Steve Coll of course would label him a "Hindu extremist" because his plan may not fit in with USA's AfPak strategy.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 27 Sep 2010 01:22

There has recently been an announcement of a Rs. 100 Cr. education grant. I really do hope that a massive university does come up with this money, one which has all modern facilities but it MUST be based in Jammu for the simple reason that a lot of Kashmiri students need to get out and see the rest of India. They should not remained isolated in their confined forever. Till now, since they got everything @ home, there was never any reason to get out.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Sep 2010 01:26

praksam wrote:^^Kashmiri Muslim "Wahabbis" would never accept Indian (Hindu) rule
.

All the Indian wahabbis went away and left India in 1947. They do not belong to this land. It will be the same with Kashmiri wahabbis. India is not their land.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Sep 2010 02:50

Anindya has it exactly right. By some strange quantum event, suppose the rest of India was willing to let Kashmir leave, even then it could not afford to. Yet another refuge for Taliban, etc., is simply not something the rest of India would strive to have.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 27 Sep 2010 02:57

Why leave the house when someone else is maintaining the property and taking care of the mortgage?

These Islamic idiots will be snuffed out of existence if we stop subsidies and allow market forces to create economic competition. Working 8-5 for companies like Infosys and TATA wont give you a lot of free time to be mischievous. Unless we start diluting article 370 these pathetic hardliners will continue keep spewing their nonsense and the people of the valley will listen with open ears.