J & K news and discussion

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 10 Oct 2010 19:03

Speed up relief in quake-hit Kashmir: Pakistan daily http://sify.com/news/speed-up-relief-in ... hhfij.html

Islamabad, Oct 10 (IANS) Pakistan needs to step up relief and rehabilitation in its Kashmir region where a devastating earthquake killed thousands in 2005, a leading newspaper said Sunday.

The Urdu daily Nawa-i-Waqt made the appeal in an editorial following protests in Pakistani Kashmir by people angry over the government's failure to provide them new homes.

A protest strike took place in Muzaffarabad, capital of the Pakistani Kashmir, while demonstrators massed outside the national assembly here to demand speedy rehabilitation.

The daily said that while a lot had been done for the victims, much more remained to be done.

'Five years after the earthquake, the situation of the homeless and the dispossessed is like that the earthquake came yesterday,' it said.

The editorial said that after the quake, dozens of religious and other groups came forward to help the affected.

But 'it was obvious they could not provide shelter for all the homeless or help all the dispossessed. This was the responsibility of the government.

'Going by the angry response of the people of Muzaffarabad and other areas, it seems the government has not done much,' it said.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Oct 2010 01:12

J&K integral part of India, says Deoband

Pointedly snubbing the separatists in the Kashmir Valley, who have often used Islam as a rallying point, the Darul Uloom Deoband, the spiritual headquarters of Sunni Islam, and its influential social front, Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind, affirmed on Sunday that Jammu and Kashmir was an integral part of India.

“India is a bouquet of all types of flowers. We cannot allow any of the flowers to be taken away,” said senior Darul theologian Abdul Rahim Bastawi. “The long pending demands of Kashmiri people must be addressed within the framework of the Constitution of India,” said a resolution passed at the conclave.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Oct 2010 03:29

abhishek_sharma wrote:
svenkat wrote:I did not find one word exceptionable in OAs speech
There are many words/sentences which would be considered objectionable. For example:

–J&K Chief Minister, Omar Abdullah in his about 90-minutes speech in the Legislative Assembly on Wednesday said the accession of Jammu and Kashmir has taken place with India but the State has not merged with the country. “It cannot be placed at par with Hyderabad or Junagarh. The accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India has occurred under an agreement. We have not broken that agreement nor we have taken it back but you have gradually demolished it and people are aggrieved and angry for your this act. We both were required to uphold and respect the agreement.

We also agree, but it is still a fact that Jammu and Kashmir’s accession to India is under an agreement and it is not the merger. For this reason special provision has been made in the Constitution of India.
Why this distinction between accession and merger? They get more funds than they deserve. They colluded with an enemy country to bleed the hand that feeds them. After 20 years of treachery, they still have an amazing sense of entitlement.

I am far from being a fan of Omar but it seems to me what he is talking about is a kind of emotional merger of the people with India (on the lines of other ex-princely states). It is self-evidently true that the Valley agitators don't wish to identify with India. And unlike in the case of say, Hyderabad, there is a special provision in the constitution that pertains to J&K.

So he is not wrong in what he said. What he left out is that the azadiwallahs are aspiring nazis and therefore deserve to be crushed.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Oct 2010 04:32

Wow, something is wacky or what....

All it took to ignite Telegana fires, irreversibly seems like, was a 2-bit fast with a 2-bit threat to violence should that end badly.

And all it took to ignite the present fire in J&K was some 2-bit stone-throwers only? wow again.

Is GoI weak in the knees or merely pretending to be so? Wonders never cease. Sad only.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Oct 2010 05:24

In interview with NDTV Musharaf said

Musharraf says. Full marks to MMS for making concessions on Kashmir to move forward on peace process.

What the hell is happening?

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 11 Oct 2010 09:06

arjunm wrote:J&K: Peace by Pieces?
Sandhya Jain
10 Oct 2010

On 29 Sept. 2010, an NGO called the Women’s Initiative for Peace in South Asia (WIPSA), organised a dialogue titled, Sisters for Peace: Voices from Kashmir, at the UN Conference Hall at Lodi Road, in collaboration with the National Foundation for India and UN Information Centre.
When some nationalists arrived at the venue on learning of the event, we found to our dismay that not a single Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, or Shia or Tribal Muslim sister or brother had been invited. The Dialogue was essentially a stage for fundamentalist Sunni Muslim women of the Kashmir Valley to air venomously anti-India views and demand secession from India in the name of Syed Ali Shah Geelani. It is a scandal that the venue was the official premises of the UN Information Centre, an international platform in the national capital.

The organisers included Planning Commission member Dr Syeda Hameed, who enjoys Minister of State rank in the Government of India; former National Women’s Commission chairperson Dr Mohini Giri, wife of late President V.V. Giri; former MP Subhasini Ali, the principal of a Delhi University college (a government employee); a number of leftist activists and journalists.

This raises serious questions about dual employment and loyalties – persons with employment and status in one arena (often Government) are misusing that status to undermine the foundations of the Indian state, that too, in concert with foreign agencies.

The United Nations has played a dubious, anti-India role in the Kashmir crisis from the beginning. We need only recall the role of Sir Owen Dixon and Josef Korbel, and never forget that the Western agenda of an independent Kashmir is very much alive and kicking. The seminar was clearly a build up to the arrival of American President Barack Obama in Delhi next month; on 5 Sept. some American Embassy officials visited the Valley.

Unfortunately, a section of the Indian government seems to have facilitated this seminar, otherwise United Nations would not dare operate in a manner so contrary to its Charter, and injurious to the interests of the host country. Union Home Secretary G.K. Pillai was asked to come at the end to receive the recommendations of the seminar, and no one in the UN staff in Delhi warned him that secessionist slogans were made throughout the day and it would be advisable for him to stay away.

The bias of the organisers was visible throughout. A young man, Sajjad of Kargil, Ladakh, sitting in the back row with us, stood up to intervene in the debate. He said, “it is only the Valley that wants azadi, and even these groups are divided. We are being hit, tourist buses are being attacked and sent back, and we are the losers. We do not want azadi. We have no identity till today, we are not recognised, even the peace delegation (led by Chidambaram) never came here.” The organisers immediately asked to him to stop, and when he tried to persist with his views, was rudely told to ‘shut up.’

Then, a doctor from the Kashmiri Pandit community, who had fled after the brutalization of the community in 1990, stood up and said, “we are 4 lakh refugees today from the 1990 mass exodus. Only one side of story is told. There was the 1997 massacre of Sangrampura, then Nandimarg, then Chittisingpora… The whole conflict is about erasing the Indian identity and pluralism; recently ultimatum was also given to the Sikh community. The core issue is the Indian identity of Kashmir. Pandits are stakeholders, but only 2500 are left in valley. So are Ladakh Buddhists, Sikhs, Jammu widows. We want political rehabilitation of minorities. A nurse keeping tabs on the militants in the valley, Sarla Bhatt, was divided into two pieces…” [This was too much for the organisers and he was sharply silenced].

Not one of the organisers/panelists had the moral or intellectual integrity to ask how the situation in the Valley deteriorated to the point that a small community of Hindus was raped, killed, brutalized and terrorized and made to flee in the biting winter of January 1990? Or question the subsequent massacres of Hindus. Yet they had the audacity – or monetary compensation – to say that Hindus (and Hindus only) must stop the litany of injustices and break out of victimhood. Such dishonesty raises questions about why UN allowed this meeting on its premises. Government of India must insist on an enquiry and removal of all involved in this decision.

The day belonged to the Kashmiri Muslim women and their quest for Azadi. Anjum Zamarud Habib of the Geelani Hurriyat faction made a sharp political speech about self-determination. “Boys with stones in hand can never be defeated. I tell you, they can never be defeated,” she screeched. Asked to wrap up, she said, ‘I will not speak at all if you stop me.’ They were cowed down and never stopped another Muslim speaker that day. Habib continued, ‘The youth daily carry coffins on their shoulders; the women are dishonoured, the men are alive to take revenge – that is the reality.’

A young Muslim woman with a black scarf said, “Hamara buniyadi haq hai azadi…” She was allowed to show a film clip showing some scenes of violence allegedly by security forces, and a picture of Geelani. She raised shrill slogans about dismembering India, against which Mrs Nancy Kaul, a Pandit activist, protested strongly. At this, Ms Syeda Hameed and Mohini Giri rushed from across the hall and physically silenced Mrs Kaul and made her sit down. The young woman continued to shout for some time.

When the commotion ended, I took the mike and raised a point of order: “The seminar cannot continue without a clarification. We were told this is not a political forum, yet slogans and demands for secession from the Indian nation have been raised openly in the presence of a sitting member of the Planning Commission and a former chairperson of the National Women’s Commission. So you two please clarify your stand on this.” Startled, Dr Syeda Hameed clammed up and Dr Mohini Giri pleaded, ‘my daughter, she has a right to speak, let us listen to all.” A rabid woman journalist added, “everyone speaks like this in Srinagar and the streets of Kashmir.”

Then, Quratulain, a teacher in a government college in Srinagar, Hameeda Nayeem of Kashmir, and another gentleman, made similar hate speeches against India. When the recommendations were finalised, Subhasini Ali said we must demand 50% women among the interlocutors on Kashmir being appointed by the Home Ministry. It is our considered opinion that none of the women present at this seminar should be included.

The author is Editor, http://www.vijayvaani.com. The article was written for Panchjanya weekly
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisp ... px?id=1447
.....

Panipat to Paris: Muslim women and the veil http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article561213.ece

SYEDA S. HAMEED

In 1947 my mother and other women of the family decided to shed the burqa. Our family comes from Panipat, which was at the time a flourishing district of Punjab with a large population of Muslims.

The distinguishing feature of this erudite, Sufi-dominated town was the primacy of women. Our homes were known by the name of the woman of the house; for example, Bi Maimuna ki Haveli (much later I was pleasantly surprised to see in Marrakesh the same formulation: Riad dar Maimuna). The decision of these Panipat women to remove the veil was accepted and respected by the men of my family. They were agents of their own fate. When several of these women reached Pakistan (per force they had to migrate), they did not revert to the veil. They were not asked to wear them or remove them, either by the state or their families.

Person holding sensitive postion in government has relatives in terroristan and supports secession, that warrants her immediate dismissal from the post and arrest

amit · Post by **amit** » 11 Oct 2010 10:25

X-posting from the TSP thread:

amit wrote:Jammu & Kashmir's future with India: Deoband

Asked about the prospect of resolution of the Kashmir issue, he said, "The country is in a reconciliatory mood, be it on J&K or Ayodhya. So, reconciliation within the Indian Constitution is the way out. An overwhelming section of Kashmiris want it, too. Which stupid person would want to go with Pakistan?"
I'm not too sure but this is perhaps the first time that a body like JuD (as opposed to the usual liberals) said something like this?

Should cause major takleef?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Oct 2010 17:15

The Deobandi theologian has articulated it well and precisely. Although, I'm basing comments on the quotes hitherto released.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Oct 2010 17:29

JE Menon wrote:The Deobandi theologian has articulated it well and precisely. Although, I'm basing comments on the quotes hitherto released.

When the news about Deoband conference came out many moons ago, I had opined that effort is being made to take the wind out of the sails of Kashmiri Muslim hardliners.

This basically means that there is congnizance of the fact that the 'piss protests' have taken an overtly religious color. While this has been common knowledge on BRF (more of opinion, IMO) - IMO, the powers-that-be realize that that things have taken a turn for worse. With Wahabism on rise across the Valley, what ever chances of settling the disputes were there, will also evaporate (or have already done). Wahabism will not allow status quo to persist and will always pull and push for change as per it's agenda. Any plan of GOI for letting that time be a healer will go for a toss.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 11 Oct 2010 18:13

Jarita wrote:In interview with NDTV Musharaf said

Musharraf says. Full marks to MMS for making concessions on Kashmir to move forward on peace process.

What the hell is happening?

What is happening?

One side will claim MMS and his government are spineless, appeasing sell outs when it comes to J&K. The other will say he is a machiavellian genius and all is under control.

As always, the truth will be somewhere in between.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 Oct 2010 18:24

For a mango man like me please explain in simple terms: What are we going to give up this time?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Oct 2010 18:28

^^^ nothing

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 Oct 2010 18:29

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ nothing

All okay then. Continue the chai biskoot please.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Oct 2010 18:37

you see, this is why the others hate us - we "pontificate about ideals and then don't budge" - this causes cognitive dissonance in others and ascribe us great powers of chankiyaness... when all along it was laziness and/or intransigence

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Oct 2010 18:38

JE Menon wrote:The Deobandi theologian has articulated it well and precisely. Although, I'm basing comments on the quotes hitherto released.

Shouldn't make much of a difference.

Not much love lost between the IMs and the WKMs as regards leadership issues.

This is just a taqiyya statement pandering to the congress govt and diplomatic distancing from the jehadi element.

ummah and dar ul harb will continue as per embedded doctrine.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 11 Oct 2010 20:22

Thanks Raghavendra JI-

Arjun M

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 12 Oct 2010 01:00

Light at the end of Jawahar tunnel

A Telangana or a Sharm-el-Sheik syndrome is haunting Manmohan Singh. Bitten twice over those ‘bold’ decisions, he is shying thrice. Deliberations are deferred to delegations; decisions to groups of ministers.

Singh is a democrat. But democracy in overdose is dangerous. When the barbarian hordes were knocking on the gates of Rome, its senators were debating strategy. History repeats itself as farce. When that pyromaniac militant Mast Gul torched Charar-e-Sharief, Indian Parliament debated an adjournment motion.

Singh called an all-party meeting next, and sent an all-party delegation. They returned with the impressions of the moment. Now what?
No one knows the Kashmiri mind. Once Nehru asked Ghulam Mohammed Bakshi how many Kashmiris were with him. Bakshi said 40 lakh. That was the total population of Kashmir. So Nehru asked him how many were with his opponent Sheikh Abdullah. “Four million,” said Bakshi.

There is no dearth of ideas on solving Kashmir. Everybody who has driven past North and South Blocks has proffered Kashmir punditry (no pun intended). Blue-water admirals have written on how mountain fences can prevent infiltration. Mediamen who mistake majors for major-generals have dished out military strategy. NGOs, foreign-funded and home-grown, have been seminaring, synergising, sensitising, empowering, touch-basing, leveraging and luncheoning over Kashmir.

Tailpiece: Even when insurgency peaked in the mid-1990s, a couple of hotels flourished in Srinagar, catering for the hordes of visiting newsmen. This was convenient to both the Army and the militants; they could easily flash messages, manage tours and distribute press statements and Army rum.

One curfew night a visiting newsman was faxing his report from the hotel reception when the phone rang. Seeing no one around, he picked it up. The caller, assuming he was addressing the manager, said, “Tell all cameramen that there will be a grenade-throw at 7 in Lal Chowk.” By now the manager arrived and grabbed the receiver. On getting the message, he shouted into the mouthpiece, “Bewakoof, don’t you know journalists don’t get up so early?”
“Theek hai, we’ll have it at 8.” Click!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Oct 2010 23:30

Chindu Opinion Piece

The Kashmir imbroglio: thinking the unthinkable

There are no ‘resources' of any kind from Kashmir, the supply of which is crucial for our well-being. The American people are dependent on oil from the Middle East, and that is the real reason for their hegemonic control over the region. Indians have no such reason to retain control of Kashmir. {I guess the author has found a way to go without water}

If Indian troops are out of Kashmir, would it jeopardise the security of Indians? Not really. The mountainous barrier between the Kashmir Valley and India is a better defensive line to guard than the present long untenable frontier of the Line of Control. {Has he ever seen a map?}

It has taken Great Britain 60 years to realise it is no longer the centre of an empire. Indian rulers have yet to realise they are no longer in charge of ‘the jewel in the crown.' Indians are not the leaders of Asia — the Chinese are. If India wishes to be considered a good second to China, it should not fritter away its resources on nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers, or Commonwealth Games. {Now you know who paid for this lifafa article}

And India should not play dirty pool with China, and harbour Tibetan governments-in-exile. {If you had any lingering doubt on the source of lifafa}

Let it not be forgotten that one of the causes of the India-China border war of 1962 was the covert activities of the CIA from Indian bases. {I also head RAA & Mossad along with Jews were also involved}

May I also suggest giving up Cashmere would cause a great cultural revolution, followed by a great leap forward?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Oct 2010 03:02

Jesus - that is one piece of commie trash, even by Chindu's standards. I googled this bozo Dr. Vithal Rajan. Found this boot-licking piece on Mao:

The Days When Mao Shook the World

His profile:

http://www.vithalrajan.com/aboutus.php

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 13 Oct 2010 03:07

chetak wrote:
JE Menon wrote:The Deobandi theologian has articulated it well and precisely. Although, I'm basing comments on the quotes hitherto released.

Shouldn't make much of a difference.

Not much love lost between the IMs and the WKMs as regards leadership issues.

This is just a taqiyya statement pandering to the congress govt and diplomatic distancing from the jehadi element.

ummah and dar ul harb will continue as per embedded doctrine.

Not sure if its taqiyya; Deoband itself went a kind of partition over the question of Pakistan in 1947.

You can be Islamist, and still reject a 'motheaten' Pakistan in favour of India. There was too much Islamic history in places like the Doab to be willing to abandon entirely to Hindus. Deoband is very traditional, so much so that I'm not sure if they really believe in nation-states of any sort. Many ulema were also skeptical of the Islamic credentials of Jinnah and the Muslim League who didn't seem to have much time for orthodox scholars.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 13 Oct 2010 11:36

MMS's sell out of Kashmir is truly underway. Wait until there is announcement by Ombaba on the peace process and Noble for MMS/Sonia
Three esteemed interlocutors announced
Dileep Padgoankar
Prof MM Ansari
Prof Radha Kumar

One more person could be included and based on the above list my guess is it could be either Praful Bidwai or Kuldeep Nayar

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Oct 2010 11:52

Guys,

Why do we hear shouts selll out every time we see MMS or any one else take a step towords Chai, biskut etc, sessions. The usefull idiots need to be kept busy. That is what the GOI is doing.

Please be confident of the GOI. Kisi ke Baap me dum nahi hai ke vo desh se vo karwale jo desh nahi karna chatha hai. Moreover, what you cant get on the battlefield, is never granted on the negotiation table.

UNSC seat or no UNSC seat. Moreover no Indian leader will ever win a nobel piss prize. MKG did not win, what makes any one think that MMS wil win it.

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 13 Oct 2010 16:49

milindc wrote:MMS's sell out of Kashmir is truly underway. Wait until there is announcement by Ombaba on the peace process and Noble for MMS/Sonia
Three esteemed interlocutors announced
Dileep Padgoankar
Prof MM Ansari
Prof Radha Kumar

One more person could be included and based on the above list my guess is it could be either Praful Bidwai or Kuldeep Nayar

All are uber WKKs. You can guess what their report is going to be

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Oct 2010 17:00

No reason why the report will be accepted by the GOI just because the WKKs dominate the comette..

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Oct 2010 17:48

Actually uber-WKK reports are a way of testing the waters without getting wet. Those reports spell out the agenda and the target. GOI directly does not burn its hands if the agenda or target is lambasted by non-GOI Indian society. The reaction then provides a measn of assessing how far the regime can go through with aspects of the agenda - or any hidden agenda behind the overt agenda - without paying for it politically or electorally.

The intensity of WKK-ist dancing increases when the political forces behind it are somehow cornered or up against the wall - in the sense that perhaps they have already committed to a wide range of forces and then are unable to deliver. The WKK-ist propaganda then gets aggressive and brutal because of the pressure to keep the commitments or understandings.

Of course the GOI does not budge on reports - for example the Mukherjee Commission report on Subhasji. Because acceptance of anything that impingeson the foundation of the politics - based on sacrosanctity of certain individuals or dynastic personages - is impossible. But other than that any other reports may be up for consideration.

In this case, the current WKK-ist report potentially available is not going to impinge on personality cults, therefore are effective as political measuring rods, as well as tools to make agendas acceptable and apparently widely supported.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2010 20:38

A good article from Deccan Chronicle. Posting in full as it is informative.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/dc-comme ... truths-134

No chief minister started his tenure with so much goodwill within his state and all over the country as Omar Abdullah in 2009. It is a pity that this was frittered away in so short a time, thanks first to the flip-flop over the so-called Shopian rape and murder case in 2009 and to the stone-pelting in 2010. Having interacted with his legendary grandfather, and more closely with his father, I had earnestly wished that he be successful.
Nowadays we do not have political leaders like Lal Bahadur Shastri who as railway minister resigned owning moral responsibility for a major train disaster. The trend now is to disown responsibility and pass the buck. We need not hold against Omar his version of events in his address to the state legislature on October 6. I would even praise him for boldly asserting that he is not a puppet of the Centre, often alleged by separatists in the Valley for CMs of the state. As a duly elected CM, he functioned with due independence. Yet there are two facts which cannot be ignored. Till the evening before Omar was sworn in as CM, it was being said that the party preferred his father for the job. Farooq Abdullah categorically stated on a media channel that he would be taking the oath as CM next morning. Something happened in Delhi that night and Omar became CM the following day. During the stone-pelting crisis, there was widespread opinion in the state and outside that Farooq would not have allowed things to go out of control. It was widely felt that Omar must go, but he survived because of a lone helpline from Delhi.
One should make allowances for Omar being young with little experience in state politics. In 2008, his uncalled for and misleading emotional outburst in Parliament during the Amarnath controversy — “Jaan Denge par Zamin nahin Denge” — only fuelled the agitation in Jammu. He must have been under tremendous strain for the past few months and this should not be ignored while commenting on his recent address to the Assembly. However, some of the issues raised by him are disturbing from the national viewpoint. The record must be set right. Pandering to separatist sentiments will not help build political support. It will only whet the appetite for secession.
Omar’s statement that Kashmir acceded to India and, unlike Hyderabad and Junagadh, did not merge with India, has an unfortunate connotation. Over 500 Princely States merged with India. Mentioning only Hyderabad and Junagadh is making insinuations, in line with Pakistan propaganda. There was a common Instrument of Accession for all Princely States acceding to India. Hari Singh was facing a very critical situation. Pakistani invaders were approaching Srinagar and he had fled to Jammu. He desperately needed India’s help and was hardly in a position to make any stipulations. He duly signed the instrument. This was fully supported by Sheikh Abdullah, the most popular leader of Kashmir. Later, it was also ratified by the Kashmir Constituent Assembly. At the time of signing the Instrument of Accession, letters were exchanged between the Maharaja and Mountbatten in which special provisions were sought and accepted. Letters do not have the same legal validity as a formal instrument. Yet Article 370 of the Constitution ensures that the provisions agreed upon were duly upheld. In these circumstances, the hair-splitting distinction between accession and merger is meaningless. It may be mentioned that in the earlier two centuries many Princely States, including Kashmir, acceded to the British Crown but the people of those states were not given British nationality. It was refreshing that during the nuclear debate in Parliament in 2008, Omar rightly won accolade for asserting his Indian nationality.
Omar’s irritation over Kashmir being described as an integral part of India was uncalled for. That has been our national stand and not that of any particular party as such. Neither his father nor his grandfather ever contested this. On February 22, 1994 the Indian Parliament passed a unanimous resolution asserting that Kashmir is an integral part of India and directing that Kashmir territory illegally occupied by Pakistan be liberated. The National Conference representative in Parliament supported that resolution.
Much is being made by Omar and his party of autonomy. The fact is that Kashmir enjoys more autonomy than any state in India but has the least autonomy below the state level. A regional political imbalance persists and is sought to be perpetuated by the embargo on delimitation of constituencies. For 49,725 voters, Kashmir has one MLA but Jammu has one MLA for 66,521 voters. This means that despite having 1,77,153 more voters, Jammu has nine MLAs less in the legislature than Kashmir. Whereas Panchayat Raj functions in every state, it is yet to be established in J&K. The Right to Information Act has not yet been made fully functional in the state. In the name of autonomy a reversion to the pre-1953 constitutional status is sought. This will entail removal of the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, the Election Commission and the Comptroller and Auditor General. There is also a demand for an elected governor from the state and doing away with IAS, IPS and other Central services. The changes effected through due process of law prescribed by the Constitution, and ratified by the state legislature, are sought to be scrapped in the name of autonomy. These changes were endorsed by the Indira-Sheikh accord. They also received the people’s support in the Sheikh’s overwhelming victory in the 1977 state elections, regarded by all as free and fair. It is strange that Sheikh Abdullah’s progenies, who attained political power for being his descendants, now want to undo what he did in the interests of the state and are chasing a mirage of autonomy. It is also pertinent that Central per capita aid is the highest in Kashmir, many times more than some other states in the country. Removal of the jurisdiction of the Comptroller and Auditor General would mean absence of financial accountability. Omar has sought regional autonomy for Jammu and Ladakh regions and has urged splitting them into sub-regions of Jammu, Rajouri, Poonch, Doda, Kargil and Leh, which would virtually be a division on communal lines. It is interesting that the Valley is not required to be split into the plains and mountain regions, obviously because of commonalty of religion.
The need in J&K is to restore order, remove governance deficit, commence political dialogue and meet the legitimate aspirations of all stakeholders in the state, within the framework of the Indian Constitution. It must not be lost sight of that the separatists constitute a minority in the state. Their influence is generally confined to the Valley, excluding the Gujjars and Bakherwals, living in the mountains. The recent stone-pelting agitation was confined to the Valley, without any Gujjar or Bakherwal participation.
- The author, a retired lieutenant-general, was Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu and Kashmir.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 13 Oct 2010 20:43

Lalmohan wrote:you see, this is why the others hate us - we "pontificate about ideals and then don't budge" - this causes cognitive dissonance in others and ascribe us great powers of chankiyaness... when all along it was laziness and/or intransigence

Lalmullah.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Oct 2010 22:29

Pratyush wrote:Guys,

Why do we hear shouts selll out every time we see MMS or any one else take a step towords Chai, biskut etc, sessions. The usefull idiots need to be kept busy. That is what the GOI is doing.

Please be confident of the GOI. Kisi ke Baap me dum nahi hai ke vo desh se vo karwale jo desh nahi karna chatha hai. Moreover, what you cant get on the battlefield, is never granted on the negotiation table.

UNSC seat or no UNSC seat. Moreover no Indian leader will ever win a nobel piss prize. MKG did not win, what makes any one think that MMS wil win it.

MMS will have to give something for sure (left to him, he will go a lot further, even terrorist Mush likes him for his agreeing to make joint love in Srinagar). The stone-pelting served a purpose. TSP so far has not used LET, they only sacrificed 100+ Kashmiri Muslim yahoos. Already US has said TSP's use of LET against India is legitimate. TSP hopes to cash the stone pelting cheque as Obama arrives. And here is the message TSP has delivered in response to India's appointment of WKK interlocuters

Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, who heads the moderate faction of the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), was also dismissive.

"We expected a political committee comprising members of the opposition as well as the governing parties. Such a committee would talk with Pakistan as well as with Kashmiri leaders," he said.

Stay tuned; this is exactly what the WKKs will recommend. And if India does not agree, all bets are off, and LET will be in full force. Only this time with international, WKK, DDM (and you guessed it, some in the Indian govt whose names I dare not mention

) sanction.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 14 Oct 2010 01:17

Thousands fled India-controlled Kashmir. Are they better off in Pakistan?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... n-Pakistan

But he is not a run-of-the-mill jihadi: He is a staunch supporter of women’s right to education and work. He also says he is especially grateful for the work of Christian charities in the region and simply wants the world to recognize his struggle. “Our right to fight the occupying forces is guaranteed under the United Nations Charter,” he says, adding: “We want to go back home but we are hostages to our situation. Though we respect the people of AJK, their government does not favor us.”

Watch out for the Christian missionaries in PoK. Watch out for the Christian missionaries that are active in Leh.

R. Krithivas

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 Oct 2010 01:56

^^^ With a sold out GOI what do you expect.
And please do not ask me to offer proof. I don't have website links or books to offer. Such information is not available in website links and books.
But amidst government circle and the ones who know, it is evident that the top two players are sold out. There are simply too many events leading to this.

As far as the missionaries are concerned, these are no different than the missionary-spies used in China prior to the boxer rebellion and later to prop up Mao and Changai. They are also no different from the missionary spies - formentors sent in hordes into India in 1980s-90s as part of western state policy. They are no different from the missionary-spy-formentors collaborating with separatists in NE and influencing world opinion against India. I could go on and on.
Where you see a missionary in disturbed area collaborating you know it is US-UK state policy

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 14 Oct 2010 04:14

krithivas wrote:Thousands fled India-controlled Kashmir. Are they better off in Pakistan?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... n-Pakistan

A quote from the biased article:

'We want to go back home, but only after the Indian Army has left'

So, I guess that means "Never!".

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Oct 2010 11:12

CRS,

The GOI may appear to be week knead but they are not sucidal. Any action which is seen by the vernacular media as a sell out will lead to a bringing down of the GOI.

The WKK and the SLIME dont count out of the metro areas. They don't represent the mood of the nation.

The only way the Cashmieres Jihadies will get what they want is if the Indian republic is dissolved completely. The danger that it may happen is not remote, but at the same time it is also not clear and present.

So will say sit back and enjoy the chai and biskut sessions that will take are about to take place. The cognitive dissonance of the WKK and the Cashmiri Jihadies will be exposed in totality. As the report will be public and be expected to reciev full scrutiny from the national media (Not Just SLIM and WKK). If it dose not stand up to scrutiny, then it will be quitely buried.

As they used to say on BRF in the old times, relax and have a charminar (even though it will kill you

).

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Oct 2010 14:43

krithivas wrote:Thousands fled India-controlled Kashmir. Are they better off in Pakistan?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... n-Pakistan

Some 35,000 Kashmiris fled from India-controlled Kashmir during the 1990s to settle in Pakistan, according to government estimates.....The fact that these people have been living for 20 years in camps remains virtually unknown ....This situation continued and continued and they’re still in the same situation they were in when they arrived, and now the third and fourth generations have been born within the camps.”

Something wrong here, no? - even prolific Pakistanis can't have four generations in 20 years, can they?

Some find they do not fit in Pakistan because of cultural and linguistic differences – migrants speak the Kashmiri language whereas many of the locals speak a dialect of Punjabi.

Similarities can be drawn between the plight of the Kashmiri migrants in AJK to the struggle of the "Kashmiri Pandits" – Kashmiri Hindus of Brahmin heritage, who were driven out of Indian administered Kashmir en masse during the uprising in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Up to 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits are believed to be displaced.

“Groups like these tend to become exploited for propaganda purposes. The Indian establishment chose to use the Pandits as proof of the racist oppression of Muslim Kashmiris, to put them forward and say ‘these are the victims of Islamic terrorism,’ ” says Lucas.

“Pakistan has so far not exploited the Kashmiri migrants in a similar way, and this is very commendable,” she says. “But that might also be to avoid drawing attention to the conditions in which they are living in the camps.”

Similarities? Which Kashmiri Pandit has done the following?

The school teacher and other migrants here say they once fought India as members of the Inter Services Intelligence backed Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. He says he was taken to Khost in Afghanistan for training under the command of pro-Pakistan Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. He walks with a prosthetic left leg after hitting a landmine during one of his sorties with militants back into Indian administered Kashmir.
Not your average jihadi

But he is not a run-of-the-mill jihadi: He is a staunch supporter of women’s right to education and work. He also says he is especially grateful for the work of Christian charities in the region and simply wants the world to recognize his struggle.

Let OBL be "grateful" for the works of Christian charities, and suddenly they will embrace OBL too.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Oct 2010 09:38

Kashmir: endgame or violent rebirth?

Wajahat Habibullah
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/kashm ... th/697843/

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Oct 2010 09:42

Abhishek,

Could you post the entire article as my firewall is not allowing me to access the site.

Thanks

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Oct 2010 09:46

Kashmir: endgame or violent rebirth?
Wajahat Habibullah

And so, we have seen the ever-confounding Valley of Kashmir pass through another bloody phase of her history, with the violent death of more than a hundred people, so many of them children, between June 2010 and the close of September. With the installation of an elected legislature in 2008 in an election in which people from every part of the Valley, particularly the young, had participated, the trauma that had wracked the State in the wake of the 2008 Amarnath Yatra had seemed a thing of the past. The pervasive political demand at the time, even among those termed “separatists”, was indeed only for self-government within the Indian Union. And yet the cry in the streets of Srinagar in September 2010 was a ringing call for “azadi”. What happened?
In April this year three young men, Muhammad Shafi Lone, Shahzad Ahmed and Riyaz Ahmed were killed in what was claimed to have been an armed encounter with terrorists in Machhil, close to the LoC in Kupwara district. Responding to complaints of a fake encounter, staged to claim the reward dispensed for killing infiltrators, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah asked the police to make an enquiry. That, in its preliminary report, identified an Indian army major as instrumental in the killing of the three who, far from being “infiltrators”, were residents of Nadihal in Rafiabad. Yet by June 3, 2010, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, speaking in Baramulla, was calling upon people to protest what he claimed was a cover-up effort. And following a stone-pelting demonstration in Srinagar on June 11, Tufail Mattoo, all of 17 and returning home from tuition, was chased by the J&K police, firing tear gas shells and obviously mistaking the child for a stone-pelter from among those with whom they had jousted all day. The boy died, triggering a state-wide agitation. In Sopore CRPF firing again took young lives. Although an enquiry was again ordered by the CM, against the objections of the CRPF high command, the uprising of the youth spread from into south Kashmir when three teenaged boys, Shujat-ul-Islam, Ishtiyaq Ahmad Khanday and Imtiyaz Ahmad Itoo were shot dead in a private compound in the SK colony area of Anantnag on June 29 by pursuing policemen. An enquiry report, called for in 24 hours, was submitted to the state assembly in October 2010, finding the firing unprovoked. But the man arrested was a constable.

The turmoil by then had spread from the cities into the countryside. The rising death toll of children brought women onto the streets for the first time since the early ’90s. And by this time the agitation that had convulsed the Valley had become a campaign for “azadi”, leading the CM to claim before his state assembly at the beginning of October, as violence subsided, that the movement was directed not against his government, but was a Quit Kashmir movement against India.

Months before the Machhil incident, the radicalisation of the young had alarmed intellectuals and political leaders with an ear to the public. I was told by a Kashmiri friend, himself a supporter of “azadi,” of this phenomenon as early as mid-2009, when instances of stone-pelting had begun to escalate. And although the CM recognised that there was a problem, he dismissed the resulting incidents of stone-pelting as the work of hooligans from congested downtown Srinagar, requiring law enforcement. The remaining elected leadership not only failed to respond, but sought to exploit it to its political advantage. But why was the youth so susceptible?

This is a generation born and brought up in an environment suffused with violence. Singularly lacking has been the building of any sense of purpose for the young. Open elections gave a glimmer of hope, but were followed by the usual one-upmanship, the bane of Kashmiri politics. Because of the drying up of government employment and the disdain of the educated for manual labour, the shortage of private investment have kept opportunities low, subject to patronage alone. A number of young people took to voluntary work through NGOs, but were actively discouraged by intelligence agencies. Omar Abdullah’s government took the initiative in passing a right to information law in 2009, around which a number of young people rallied. Yet the government dawdled in its enforcement, with volunteers actually facing victimisation. And the national media, catering to an upper-middle-class audience, showed young Kashmiris a picture, not always true, of a “shining India” with unending opportunities, of which the Kashmiri youth felt that they were no part. So, to convince these impressionable young minds that they were deliberately sidelined, despite their having abjured violence, was simple. It was projected as active discrimination because they happened to be Muslim, to which the state government, described as a “puppet” of the Centre, was party.

Stone-pelting has been a traditional form of protest in Kashmir since Sheikh Abdullah’s days of resistance to Dogra rule, leading a population without access to weaponry of any other kind. While recourse to this tradition clearly reflects acknowledgement within Kashmir of the failure of violence dependent on weaponry diligently supplied by Pakistan’s ISI, the spread of the present outbreak is a clear demonstration of the failure of political resolve from a leadership elected through a free and fair election. A senior police officer who I asked at the outbreak of the agitation as to why the police either overreacted, or simply placed the paramilitary CRPF in the forefront, bemoaned the fact that whenever firm action was taken and identified ringleaders arrested, they were promptly released under pressure from senior political leaders.

What then is “azadi”? Farooq Abdullah will tell you that no two Kashmiris will give you a definitive answer of what he or she means by the word. Does it stand for independence? That is how it has generally been construed in India. Yet, Kashmir’s aspiration for azadi is rooted in its conscious accession to India. When he discussed the choices before Kashmir with UNCIP head Joseph Korbel in September 1948, Farooq’s father Sheikh Abdullah made his preference clear. In his words: “there is a possibility of independence under the joint guarantee of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, and the Soviet Union. I would be willing to meet the leader of Azad Kashmir, Ghulam Abbas, with whom I was once tied by bonds of friendship and a common struggle... But even should Kashmir’s powerful neighbors agree to give us a guarantee of independence, I doubt that it could last for long.”

So to the Kashmiri leadership accession to India represented winning true freedom. Thereafter whenever the Kashmiris have felt their freedom compromised, they have blamed it on India’s “betrayal”. Hence the call for azadi, without a thought to whether independence and freedom are compatible in a state the size of Kashmir contiguous to two rising military powers, India and China, and the latter’s ally, Pakistan.

Will simply withdrawing the Armed Forces Special Powers Act and conceding the demand of the state assembly of 2002 for greater autonomy bring closure? Although it might be reasonably argued that these are components of what might be arrived at as a compromise, equally true is the fact that these issues have little to do with the present demands. Their induction into the present debate was at best a red herring. And as for the demand for autonomy, the last thing that the agitating youth have been demanding is a return of their state government to the powers enjoyed by it in 1953, the gist of the autonomy demand of the National Conference.

The task for the Kashmiri leadership is clear. Improved policing has brought down the killing. The lull — and it must be recognised as no more than that — must be used to bring the people of the state, and the Valley in particular, towards participation in governance, with the concomitant official accountability which the rest of India is guaranteed. As for the Union of India, the answer is incredibly simple — allow to the Kashmiris the same respect and dignity that is considered a right by every Indian citizen. If we can do this, this agitation will be remembered only as a rude aftershock to the tremor of the ’90s. Failure risks a relapse into the reckless violence that we had hoped forever gone.

The writer is a former chief information commisioner. Government of India

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Oct 2010 09:51

^ Please delete if this has some copyright issues.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 15 Oct 2010 11:37

^^^Any person who talks of the Kashmir region of J&K state as inhabited by a monolithic people, without accounting for Kashmiri Pandits, Gujjars, Sikhs, and Shias, does not deserve to have his tripe posted in this thread.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 15 Oct 2010 13:51

Omar Abdullah said nothing wrong on J&K accession: Krishna

"I don't think Omar Abdullah has said anything objectionable. It is a fact that Jammu and Kashmir has acceded to India just like Mysore acceded to India," Krishna said when asked how he saw the chief minister's statement recently.

Krishna, during an interaction with a group of journalists, noted that like in the case of Jammu and Kashmir, the Maharaja of Mysore had also signed an accession treaty "and I am a citizen of Mysore".

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Oct 2010 15:00

Tamang wrote:Omar Abdullah said nothing wrong on J&K accession: Krishna

"I don't think Omar Abdullah has said anything objectionable. It is a fact that Jammu and Kashmir has acceded to India just like Mysore acceded to India," Krishna said when asked how he saw the chief minister's statement recently.

Krishna, during an interaction with a group of journalists, noted that like in the case of Jammu and Kashmir, the Maharaja of Mysore had also signed an accession treaty "and I am a citizen of Mysore".

Instructions seem to have come from the italian parivar for the troops to rally round and unstintingly support omar the unwashed abdullah.

Faithfuls seem to be leaping to the task with gusto!

Any big job at the UN opening up soon??