Should HH The Dalai Lama be elected India's next President?

[RajeshA]

LoL......it is not question of worth the trouble. It is the question, of if he is the right horse to bet.

The question of HH Dalai Lama's Presidency of India should not be seen in isolation. The premise of this thread is that it would strengthen Indian security and territorial integrity, if Tibet is officially merged into India through an Instrument of Accession, approved by the Tibetan exiles, Tibetan Parliament and HH DL.

If such a project is undertaken, only then HH DL's candidature for Presidency of India makes sense, and its success is to a large extent contingent on his being made the President.

Now no Indian whosoever can contribute anything at all to the success of such an undertaking by becoming India's President, and no (currently) Tibetan other than HH Dalai Lama can contribute so much to its success either, which makes current HH DL Tenzin Gyatso's position unique, simply because he is the HH Dalai Lama.

So even if he was the most vile creature on earth and it was considered in India's national interest to ensure the success of this undertaking, he should be made President. The offer would have to go to him, regardless of his virtues and achievements.

In that way, the question you pose, whether he is the right horse to bet on, is irrelevant because he is the only horse available (as far as I can see).

The right question would be whether the pro-forma Merger of Tibet into India is a sensible thing to do, an issue which we can debate. Of course you can agree with such a merger and still claim one should choose a different President, but then you would have to tell which other person would be more useful than the HH DL and why.

[chaanakya]

The right question would be whether the pro-forma Merger of Tibet into India is a sensible thing to do, an issue which we can debate. Of course you can agree with such a merger and still claim one should choose a different President, but then you would have to tell which other person would be more useful than the HH DL and why.

You've nailed it right on the head.

It would be sensible thing to do if it advances both India and Tibet interest, economically, politically and militarily.
I think it does notwithstanding the nuisance value to Chinese H&D which is just an added advantage.However , mere statement of such a policy would have deeper implications including H&D of Chinese.

And on what basis, Swamyji , you question HHDL's character and integrity?? You have to , at least, prove him otherwise.
Regarding historic precedence , I think you don't need any sermon on this, you are too learned for that.

BTW, as Rajesh pointed out, its a question of alternatives. What else do you suggest? Simply asking of this question presupposes that you have accepted the Policy.

[Rodrigo Rojas]

Does being a president make any difference in India?
Just let him be, for the heck of it.

[RajeshA]

X-Posted from Managing China Threat Thread

Many have suggested that we play the Tibet or Taiwan or Xinjiang card with China. But none of them have, have listed out what playing these cards will entail.


Some have even suggested that we do not recognize Tibet as part of China. Let us assume that we do that, then after this what? Will our problems with China evaporate? Will China drop its claims on AP and vacate northern ladakh territories (I refuse to call them Akash Chin) that it has occupied? Do we have sufficient power (armed forces and economic strength) to compel the Chinese to leave Tibet and not return back into Tibet? Will china stop aiding pakistan with weapons and other strategic items?
For all of these questions the answer is no.

No our problems with China would remain. They may even intensify. China will not drop its claims on Arunachal Pradesh either. We also do not have sufficient power to compel the Chinese to leave Tibet. China will continue to aid Pakistan with weapons and other strategic items, provided there is a Pakistan.

So the question is what does de-recognizing Tibet as part of China, or Tibetan merger with India, brings us?

Well consider two wrestlers, hands locked, each trying push the other out of the ring! If one is simply trying to hold his ground but not push back, he will inadvertently lose. He would have to exert an equal force to hold the other wrestler back. He would have to push back as well.

Why do we need to have the expectation to win back Tibet, right now? That depends on us becoming stronger than the Chinese, which can be a possibility some day, not necessarily today. So our pushing back is only for the purpose of holding our ground. That is the primary purpose. We don't want to be on the back-foot.

Some people say, it suffices that we have our military there. In the end they will hold the fort. We need not worry.

The question is why can't we strengthen our claims on Arunachal Pradesh politically? The legitimacy of our rights to Arunachal Pradesh are based on some British time treaties with Tibet, which China just does not recognize. Just having British treaties as our sole savior, is in my opinion, extremely insufficient.

The Chinese have based their claims on their lands upon their civilization. We are basing our claims on basis of dealings of our one-time occupiers - the British. Even the basis of legitimacy reeks of inequality.

Chinese say Arunachal Pradesh is disputed, so Google shows it as disputed, and Apple shows it as Chinese territory. So the logical answer is that we say whole Tibet is disputed, which means the whole of Greater Tibet would be shown in a different color on the maps.

India should go for a symbolic merger of Tibet into India, only then can we claim that Tibet is disputed. Why fight with our hands tied behind our backs? This has been my refrain in the Should HH The Dalai Lama be elected India's next President? Thread

[chaanakya]

The question is why can't we strengthen our claims on Arunachal Pradesh politically? The legitimacy of our rights to Arunachal Pradesh are based on some British time treaties with Tibet, which China just does not recognize. Just having British treaties as our sole savior, is in my opinion, extremely insufficient.

The Chinese have based their claims on their lands upon their civilization. We are basing our claims on basis of dealings of our one-time occupiers - the British. Even the basis of legitimacy reeks of inequality. ( I would say downright apartheid, we must provide equal justification and draw upon our historical records )

Chinese say Arunachal Pradesh is disputed, so Google shows it as disputed, and Apple shows it as Chinese territory. So the logical answer is that we say whole Tibet is disputed, which means the whole of Greater Tibet would be shown in a different color on the maps.

India should go for a symbolic merger of Tibet into India, only then can we claim that Tibet is disputed. Why fight with our hands tied behind our backs? This has been my refrain in the Should HH The Dalai Lama be elected India's next President? Thread

Once IOA is there our claim will be to Greater Tibet and we need not be defensive about AP .
It strengthens our claim to Waters of Brahmaputra and disputes the right of China to diver water of a National river in a territory occupied by them to another basin in their territory.
It forces China to increase expenditure disproportionately thereby increasing the opportunity cost of its policy .
It give a strengthens Tibetan people .
Tibet is one of the strongest point of China in Chakrvyuha and India must enter from here in order to break it. All other points/circles on vyuha would present weaker entry points and India would be checkmated by Tibet and AP, Ladakh on northern borders.To destabilise equilibrium of the vyuha, India must do unexpected and de-legitimise Chinese claim.

[RajeshA]

X-Posting from Arunachal Pradesh: A separate nation on Google Earth

If the Chinese get others to put Arunachal Pradesh as disputed territory, why can't India get MNCs to mark Tibet as disputed territory.

If China disputes Arunachal Pradesh, India should dispute Tibet. That is the way the game is played. That is the way, India should play the game.

Crying over disputed areas doesn't solve problems. Expanding the disputes to other countries could solve the problem.

I agree with Rajesh; India should make all efforts to dispute Tibet. India should not hesitate to cause takleef to adarmic Chinese rulers.

The first principle India needs to learn is that "no war should be fought just in one's own territory." I don't just mean a military conflict. I mean all disputes at all levels. Another way to say it is "offence is the best defense"!

Kargil is one prime example of the current Indian thinking. We still show fear of escalation, when the others have none. The others are more than willing to fight wars in our territories.

Now that Arunachal Pradesh is being disputed by China, what India would do is to try to defend our claims in the court of international opinion, with the MNCs, who have interests in India but also in China.

What we should do is to dispute China's claims over Tibet! But just withdrawing India's recognition of Chinese suzerainty or sovereignty over Tibet would not be enough. China has pulled Arunachal Pradesh into the disputed column by itself laying claims on it, not by not recognizing it as Indian territory.

India would have to say that Tibet is part of India. That is what would be needed. But we would probably not do it, because we fear escalation, even if that is the only way forwards.

I do not understand the escalation part, wouldn't China be concerned about escalation too? China cares about economy and trade as much as India does.

'Escalation' is to be understood in the right context. In military terms, escalation means one thing, in diplomatic sphere, it means something different.

When the Japanese took the Chinese captain of the trawler who rammed his boat into the Japanese navy ships off the Senkaku islands, the Chinese also went for escalation - they took four Japanese construction workers into detention, plus stopped all diplomatic meetings, stopped the export of rare earths, stopped cultural exchanges, etc.

So when China claims 83743 km² of Indian territory in Arunachal Pradesh, India's correct response would be to lay claims to Tibet (1,228,400 km² of Tibet Autonomous Region and 721,000 km² of Qinghai, etc). After some time one could force China to accept current boundaries, but as things stand now, they have no reason to look for compromises, because the war of claims is being fought on Indian-controlled territory.

One thing to note is that even though the Chinese claim Arunachal Pradesh as their territory, they have not started a war and tried to conquer and hold on to Indian territory. So there is also no pressure upon India to 'liberate' Tibet by force just because we lay claims on Tibet occupied by China.

Agreed. India should do whatever it takes.....

V.simple.Contest China's claim to Tibet and Taiwan.Say that China is encroaching upon Indian territory in Aksai Chin and POK.We needn't go to war,but simply contest it and make it an issue.The Argentinian leader has just accused the RN of being "pirates" and the the Falklands/Malvinas is Argentina's,but says that they won't go to war over it! They're probably waiting for the huge British defence cuts which will make it impossible ever again for any British expeditionary force from retaking the Falklands again.Engaging more forcefully with Vietnam,Taiwan,etc. will keep the Chinese off balance,at least as much as they are trying to with Pak.

[RajeshA]

Published on Oct 11, 2010
China tightens control of Tibetan monasteries, blames "separatists": Deutsche Presse Agentur

Beijing - China plans to tighten control over Tibetan Buddhist monasteries to reduce the influence of the exiled Dalai Lama and other 'internal and external separatist forces,' according to a government notice seen on Monday.

[SwamyG]

But I still think DL is a wrong bet

[chaanakya]

Published on Oct 11, 2010
China tightens control of Tibetan monasteries, blames "separatists": Deutsche Presse Agentur

Beijing - China plans to tighten control over Tibetan Buddhist monasteries to reduce the influence of the exiled Dalai Lama and other 'internal and external separatist forces,' according to a government notice seen on Monday.

Did they pick up the thread (t) from brf??

[chaanakya]

But I still think DL is a wrong bet

The idea itself is enough to send jitters through PRC. Floated through some think tank would get us the desired reaction. ROI need not endorse it .

[RajeshA]

Did they pick up the thread (t) from brf??

Well, they have been at it for the last so many decades! BRF or no BRF, shouldn't really make a difference.

[Philip]

God! The more they harrass the Tibetans,especially the monks,the more die-hard will be the attitude of the diaspora.

[naren]

x-post from Tibet thread.

Dalai Lama Approves of Nobel Pick Future Indian Brejident His Holiness the Dalai Lama disses gay commie China

The 2010 Nobel Peace Prize went to the "right person" at the "right moment," the Dalai Lama said, adding the move could serve as a "significant contribution for changing China."

During a brief stopover Monday at Narita International Airport en route to the United States, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader criticized the Chinese government for its opposition to awarding the Nobel to jailed dissident Liu Xiaobo, saying China must change but some "hardliners" are stuck in an "old way of thinking."

[naren]

PRESS STATEMENT OF {future brejident} HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA ON LIU XIAOBO BEING AWARDED THE 2010 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

I would like to offer my heart-felt congratulations to Mr. Liu Xiaobo for being awarded this year’s Nobel Peace Prize.

Awarding the Peace Prize to him is the international community’s recognition of the increasing voices among the Chinese people in pushing China towards political, legal and constitutional reforms.

I would like to take this opportunity to renew my call to the government of China to release Mr. Liu Xiaobo and other prisoners of conscience who have been imprisoned for exercising their freedom of expression.

[Manmeet]

Right question: why there is no one from north east as India's president even after 60 years of its independence?

It had become a norm in the past that once president will be elected from South India and in next term he/she will be from North.
It is shameful that India never had a president from North east.
There should be a discussion on BRF about this topic.

[naren]

Many nations top leadership met with the Dalai Lama, future president of India, despite being subjected to an 8.1 percent decrease in exports to China for roughly two years after the meeting

Nov. 4 – A recent study conducted by the University of Gottingen found that nations whose top leadership met with the Dalai Lama were subject to an 8.1 percent decrease in exports to China for roughly two years after the meeting.

The study, undertaken by Andreas Fuchs and Nils-Hendrik Klann of the department of economics, attempts to understand the effects of meeting with the Dalai Lama in empirical terms and proposes three related theses: first, meeting with the Dalai Lama impacts trade with China in a negative way; second, such an effect is amplified by the rank of the foreign dignitary with whom the Dalai Lama is meeting; third, that the effect disappears over time as bilateral relations between China and partner countries recover.

Link to the research paper: Paying a Visit: The Dalai Lama Effect on International Trade

October 19, 2010

Center for European Governance and Economic Development Research Paper No. 113

Abstract:
The Chinese government frequently threatens that meetings between its trading partners’ officials and the Dalai Lama will be met with animosity and ultimately harm trade ties with China. We run a gravity model of exports to China from 159 partner countries between 1991 and 2008 to test to which extent bilateral tensions affect trade with autocratic China. In order to account for the potential endogeneity of meetings with the Dalai Lama, the number of Tibet Support Groups and the travel pattern of the Tibetan leader are used as instruments. Our empirical results support the idea that countries officially receiving the Dalai Lama at the highest political level are punished through a reduction of their exports to China. However, this ‘Dalai Lama Effect’ is only observed for the Hu Jintao era and not for earlier periods. Furthermore, we find that this effect is mainly driven by reduced exports of machinery and transport equipment and that it disappears two years after a meeting took place.

haha, see the clout of our future brejident, commie biatches

[joshvajohn]

Why not? Dalai Lama can be made as the president of India or one whom he points to!

Dalai Lama, LK Advani to attend international conference on Tibet
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_da ... et_1462285

I also think US president should make a statement on Tibet while he is in Asia. Tibetian freedom is linked to other freedom in South Asia.

[RajeshA]

Considering that the elections for President of India are fast approaching, I would like to turn the attention of the jirga to a good candidate we considered earlier HH The Dalai Lama.

His election would give China many many stomach aches and would also strengthen the case of Tibet to be free from China!

Tenzin Gyatso for President!

Tenzin Gyatso Zindabad!

[Aditya_V]

WTF is this thread, ideally posts here should be IB4TL

[RajeshA]

Aditya_V ji,

it is an old thread having run over 260 posts! You wouldn't see that many IB4TLs though!

For this thread, one needs patience - patience to read through it! At the end one can either vomit or vote yes!

[harbans]

Completely agree with that one. China's Tibet Card will fall.

[member_22872]

If Ombaba from Kenya can become US president why can't HH Dalai Lama become Indian president? HH Dalai Lama too is a Nobel Laureate similar to Ombaba, even though people might laugh, I think the idea is not bad at all.

[Agnimitra]

Yes, I support it.

But if it is considered too obvious, and too political a role for HH, then Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck, young king of Bhutan, would make a good choice instead. Bhutan is also a fledgling democracy now, and the younger Wangchuck has been very progressive in many ways. The well-educated Wangchuck should be given honorary Indian citizenship. HH the Dalai Lama could publicly offer his blessings.

Bhutan is the only Mahayana Buddhist country in the world, but it has never invited the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan leader who also represents the Mahayana sect. The Dalai Lama is the leader of the Yellow Hat sect within Mahayana Buddhism, and Bhutan has its own spiritual leader, the Je Khenpo, head abbot. However, the Dalai Lama is revered by all Bhutanese.

Considering China's blatant moves with "Buddhist politics" in the subcontinent, especially Nepal, I think this move from India is a reasonable demonstration of our own civilizational legitimacy. The de facto loss of Nepal is a huge setback for India right now.

China’s Buddhist politics now includes Nepal

There is renewed activism in recent months in Buddhist politics or, more aptly ‘kasayapolitiks’. Two large-scale events, both inextricably linked with Buddhism, are being sponsored by China’s communist regime next month. One of them, which demonstrates Beijing’s continuing interest and expanding influence in Nepal and its exiled Tibetan Buddhist community, will, quite oddly, be attended by UN Secretary General, Ban ki Moon.

China’s new initiative comes in the midst of growing discontent among Tibetans inside China and imposition of stringent security measures in the Tibet Autonomous Region and Tibetan areas inside China. CCTV cameras and armed police have been deployed outside sensitive monasteries like Drepung, Sera and Kirti since February this year. The security budget of Sichuan province’s Aba Prefecture, which has a sizeable Tibetan community, was doubled last year. Especially since last September, at least thirty Tibetans, almost all former monks and nuns below 30 years of age, have committed self-immolation. A sign of their desperation was shockingly manifest for the first time in Delhi on March 26, on the eve of Chinese President Hu Jintao’s arrival for the BRICS summit, when a 26-year-old Tibetan refugee immolated himself.

The three day ‘international’ event in the Buddha’s birthplace of Lumbini, which opens on April 28, has as its prime movers Nepal’s leading communist politician Pushpa Kamal Dahal, better known by his nom de guerre ‘Prachanda’ and well known for his proximity to China and a former Nepal minister of culture and Nepal Congress politician, Dr Minendra Rijal. During his visit, Ban ki Moon, who is to be accompanied by UNESCO director-general Irina Bokova, will co-chair an international conference on Lumbini with UCPN-Maoist Chairman Pushpa Kamal Dahal. An International Peace Conference is also scheduled to be held in Lumbini on April 30. Nepal has, incidentally, declared 2012 as ‘Visit Lumbini Year’.

[RajeshA]

venug ji,

it would also be a good idea to make somebody India's President who is considered one of the highest authorities in one of the prominent Dharmic traditions.

Indian Presidency should with time embody the concept of Dharmaraj. True it is not Sanatan Dharma that gets the seat. But it would promote the concept of having somebody on the seat who upholds the concept of Dharma! Later on one can have somebody from Sanatan Dharma take the Presidency.

[RamaY]

+1 to HHDL anyday.

[member_22872]

Rajesh ji, I completely agree, seeing from Carl ji's post, this would really change the Indian subcontinent geo politics too. So far China is gaining upper hand, it is slowly moving too close to India, well, it already too close to India, with Nepal being sympathetic to China with Marxists leaders, and also a birth place of Gautama Buddha, it is too important to ignore. HH Dalai Lama if made the president, it gives out a statement, in a way it is also to stake claim on Tibet or atleast more like a protectorate by default no matter how symbolic. It's time India be assertive. Like China playing TSP card, yet smile at us and behave like a good neighbour, we too can do that with HH becoming the president.

It will also help Tibet, everytime HH as Indian president goes anywhere or attends any function abroad, Tibet's cause is brought to front, media won't fail to mention how Tibet is under Chinese occupation. It would boost Tibetan cause. As you mentioned, it will also help revive Dharma seat (Buddhist, Buddhism is repackaged Sanatana Dharma anyway) which some feel is slowly moving towards the west.

If somehow HH president ship candidacy is somehow made very prominent through media such that no political party can afford to disassociate from, they will have no way out but support him, every attempt to play down his candidacy should be made to appear as if that political party is against HH, may be then he would have enough support to become one?

[RajeshA]

On Rajiv Malhotra's Discussion list, there were some posts on how West has almost digested Buddhism completely. What is left, China is making claims on it.

What if (Maoist) Nepal suddenly decides to join China? Then China owns Buddha's birthplace, and can lay claim to a wide region in Asia.

[member_22872]

Yes Western Zen teachers are everywhere, they talk the talk,it's time India takes back what is ours. It is too disheartening to see the West act if they have better grasp of Dharma than we Indians, act as if now Buddhism is safe in western lands. HH can be a big deal, I am sure he would do everything in his capacity to revive Tibetan and Indian Dharmic values. It really is a good step, certainly he is a better candidate than rest of the tainted politicians running for presidency.

[KJo]

What a ridiculous idea.

[Agnimitra]

^^ What's "ridiculous" about it?

In this watershed year when the long, hard work of cleaning up a corruption-infested system has begun in India, nothing could be more appropriate than having the Dalai Lama as President. It would bless and give a fillip to the national aspiration to a more Dharmic polity, and realization of the crucial role of personal integrity. Where better to start than at the top? HH's presence there for one or two terms will leave a historic stamp on that position for the next iteration of the Indic rashtra.

Also, what a huge effect a simple chide from the Dalai Lama as President to the netas would create, and perfectly complement the grassroots movement of Team Anna, etc. It would also dilute and be a counterpoint to any personality cult problems with Anna ji.

So basically, India wants the Dalai Lama because of the anti-corruption movement onlee. Nothing to do with Tibet.

[RajeshA]

In fact, the West owns not only Buddhism today, but the Dalai Lama as well.

Why do Western leaders always meet with the Dalai Lama when he comes visiting. True there is the issue of pin-pricking China. But beyond that, are there any Buddhist constituencies of voters or countries, that Western leaders need to appeal to? Hardly.

They all meet with the Dalai Lama to let some of his spirituality and morality rub on to them and to the Western world which is nothing but imperialist and greedy. The West wants to own Buddhism and keep it close to Christianity, giving Christianity a more holy aura.

We Indics don't really have much left to do with Buddhism! We have given it away, making ourselves "secular" as if that is some kind of civilizational prize.

If for a change we want to do something to save our civilization at a political level, we need to consider some drastic symbolism.

[chaanakya]

Considering that the elections for President of India are fast approaching, I would like to turn the attention of the jirga to a good candidate we considered earlier HH The Dalai Lama.

His election would give China many many stomach aches and would also strengthen the case of Tibet to be free from China!

Tenzin Gyatso for President!

Tenzin Gyatso Zindabad!

Any day Dalai Lama is a better candidate. We can stake our claim to Tibet as well.
Though Pranab da would be next best.

[RajeshA]

chaanakya ji,

Pranab da is an experience politician and administrator. He is needed close to the AICC.

[member_22872]

^^^ I can only agree, I do see the yearning that West has, they talk about Christian yoga, they draw parallels to Christianity and Buddhism, more and more of western folk now are Buddhists and make a pilgrimage to Japan and China. Where is India here? what was ours is being hijacked, history hijacked, culture hijacked, I wont be surprised when an American pontificates about how India and Indian are so aDharmic because now he feels he a champion of Dharma. HH is good choice, what is wrong with him? no controversies, a simple and holy man. HH is aging, we can't and shouldn't wait, I know it is improbable, but the time is now, not later.

[member_20317]

what the hell it aint gonna happen but still I vote for the 14th Dalai Lama as President of India.

At least in my heart I can have him as our President.

I wish we could have some Field Marshal like position for the people who carry the essence of our history on them.

Also I second RajeshA ji. Pranab da is best qualified to be the lead think tank in Congress. Presidentship is too small for a person of his stature.

[chaanakya]

chaanakya ji,

Pranab da is an experience politician and administrator. He is needed close to the AICC.

RajeshA ji
I agree , but then it is for him second best choice.

Reason being , if he is not the President then only MMS could be promoted then PMship goes to Pranab da which would threaten that nincompoop called RG in his bid for 2014 which in any case might never happen. And if he is in the think tank he could sink RG even then. So safe bet for Gongoons is to promote him to Presidentship

[SBajwa]

Dalai lama for PRESIDENT!

[RajeshA]

chaanakya ji,

you may be right. I can't really tell. But I think, Pranab da has always sufficed himself with just being important both in Govt. and in the party. I don't know whether he would show so much ambition for PM-ship! I would say he is content playing the deputy PM, whoever be the PM.

But like I said, I can't really tell!

[SBajwa]

ever since he questioned the PMship of Rajiv Gandhi back in 1984 he has been very cautious.

[chaanakya]

But like I said, I can't really tell!

Please no Ji here. We are all brfites


And yes Politics is such a bitch, one can never really tell.