India-US Strategic News and Discussion

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Oct 2010 00:12

There is something shady about this that is brewing in the background.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... -burns.htm

How 1 Parliament action can kill Indo-US nuke deal
Last updated on: October 21, 2010 11:06 IST

Aziz Haniffa in Washington

In a scathing indictment of the nuclear liability bill passed by Indian Parliament, Nicholas Burns, former under secretary of state in the Bush administration, has warned that if the bill was not amended it could sound the death knell of the historic Indo-US nuclear deal and adversely impact on the envisaged US-India strategic partnership.

Burns, who was the key US interlocutor in negotiating the US-India nuclear deal, said: "My view of the civil nuclear accord is that the actions of the Indian Parliament in putting forward the nuclear liability bill is going to stall this agreement unless something is done to modify that action by the Indian parliament."

Burns, co-chair of the report Natural Allies: A Blueprint for the Future of US-India Relations that was officially rolled out Wednesday by the Centre for a New American Security to a packed audience at the Knight Conference Centre/Newseum in Washington, bemoaned that the agreement was yet to be implemented even though 'the two countries agreed on a bilateral phase of this in July 2007 -- more than three years ago.'

Burns said he was extremely "worried that this very high profile centrepiece of the relationship is not going to be fulfilled without some quick action by the Indian government and the Indian Parliament."

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2010 00:18

See they passed the Hyde Act and yet India didn't say it will kill it etc. However when Indian law holds the Reactor Pressure Vessel vendor liable for accidents they want to get mad. it means they wan tht emoney and want to walk away from any future issues like Union Carbide "accident".
Sure walk away it os only the behind that will get sore if you get mad at the river.

And that Aiziz Haniffa/Liffafa should know who pays his news service? Its not US readership for the drivel he writes!

Telugu folks will understand this one.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Oct 2010 00:25

ramana wrote:See they passed the Hyde Act and yet India didn't say it will kill it etc. However when Indian law holds the Reactor Pressure Vessel vendor liable for accidents they want to get mad. it means they wan tht emoney and want to walk away from any future issues like Union Carbide "accident".
Sure walk away it os only the behind that will get sore if you get mad at the river.

And that Aiziz Haniffa should know who pays his news service? Its not US readership for the drivel he writes!

Telugu folks will understand this one.

Please to explain saar.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Oct 2010 03:22

ramana wrote:Tribune reports:

However, the US claims that the communications interoperability and security agreement will enable interoperability between air forces of both countries. Senior functionaries see this as a needless “prop” and India sees no benefit in the IAF being interoperable with the US.

So much for American over-confidence that India is dying to fly with them.

Americans would have to adjust to a world, where the awe of their technological and military superiority is wearing off, along with their salesmanship skills. India is not to be taken for granted. Americans need to do more.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Oct 2010 03:43

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Think-tank calls for “bold leap forward” in Indo-U.S. relations

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 841368.ece

The authors went further into specific detail on this count, emphasising that the U.S. ought to remove the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) subsidiaries from the Entity List, “as the Indian government draws clearer lines between its civil space and civil nuclear activities on the one hand, and its ballistic missile and nuclear weapons activities on the other.”

So space cooperation is contingent upon Indian complete separation of civil and military industries. Doesn't it add unnecessary burden on Indian economy?

Touching upon one of the issues that India has repeatedly stressed at international forums, the Natural Allies report urged the U.S. to support India’s bid for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council. It argued, “The U.S. should commit, publicly and explicitly, to work with India in support of its permanent membership in an enlarged UNSC.”

However the report acknowledged that an India-U.S. partnership at the UNSC may take time to develop, and “India and U.S. votes in the U.N. General Assembly last year matched just 30 per cent of the time.”

So as long as India has an independent foreign policy interests, US cannot support India's candidature for UNSC

The CNAS volume also did not shy away from highlighting a few other dimensions of the India-U.S. relationship that were not yet settled, including the two countries’ divergent views on how to approach the Iran question, and also the impasse that had been reached on the bilateral civil nuclear agreement after the passage of the nuclear liability bill by the Indian Parliament.

Here too only Iran (which is priority to US) is mentioned. No mention of Pakistan or Indian interests in Afghanistan.

And the think tank sells this as "bold leap forward" for India.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Oct 2010 07:19

From Pew Global Attitudes Survey available here:

Pew

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 22 Oct 2010 07:22

arun wrote:From Pew Global Attitudes Survey available here:

Pew

As always, the trend lines show a more complicated picture ...

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Oct 2010 07:27

Bush aide Burns feels Indo-US ties are losing some energy

Recommending "a bold leap forward' in the Indo-US relationship, the report also urges Obama to endorse New Delhi's bid for Permanent Membership of the UN Security Council, remove ISRO from entities list and stop asking India to join NPT as a non-nuclear state.

"The United Stated ought to support in my judgment personally, India's permanent membership in the Security Council. We need stronger military ties than we have. We need actions by the United States to liberalise export control regime," he said.

"The global balance of power is shifting. The future is going to look very different as who has power in the world than it did in the last 30 or 40 years, we need democratic partners, friends and allies to keep the peace, particularly in the most vital parts of the world for the United States, which is the Middle East, the South Asia and East Asia," he said.

Okay...what about Pakistan and their IT Sir? a paragraph or two on it would complete any general Indian's wishlist...atleast on paper

...it often makes me wonder why people make noise after they are relieved from power...and don't utter a word{like in this article} when they are in power...

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Oct 2010 07:29

AnimeshP wrote:
arun wrote:From Pew Global Attitudes Survey available here:

Pew
As always, the trend lines show a more complicated picture ...

These trends will confuse yankees more than sdres.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Oct 2010 07:38

RamaY wrote: So space cooperation is contingent upon Indian complete separation of civil and military industries. Doesn't it add unnecessary burden on Indian economy?

RamaY, unlike the nuclear scenario, the space and missile sectors in India have been functioning independently for a long, long time.

Here too only Iran (which is priority to US) is mentioned. No mention of Pakistan or Indian interests in Afghanistan.

Even among closest friends like the US-UK or US-Canada, there are diverging opinions on many issues. It is therefore unwise for the US to expect a closer identity of views in the Indo-US relationship which is still fraught with distrust and immaturity. This is work very much in progress. This is something that the Indian diplomats would not fail to bring to the attention of the US, if this issue comes up. Of course, the US would try to bring pressure on India by raking up these as well. As you say, India has excellent counter points in the form of Pakistan, Afghanistan and even PRC.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Oct 2010 07:45

India resists US pushback on Nuclear liability

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Oct 2010 08:21

Obama is going to Pakistan. India is not amused.:

“This is going to do some damage to the relationship” between Washington and New Delhi, says Sumit Ganguly, an Indian-American scholar of South Asia currently on sabbatical in New Delhi. “Now you will hear the expression in New Delhi ‘re-hyphenation.’ ”

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Oct 2010 09:43

News is that Sri Geithner got snubbed by India, Brazil and Germany - all of who rejected 'numerical targets' - in his efforts to build a coalition in support of a plaza accord II to rebalnce the world economy by re-pegging exchange rates as he deems fair.

The more the cheenis sabre rattle and deflate sri Geithner and khan pretensions to unbridled freedom of action in a globalized world, the better will Delhi's cards be when Sri Obama does come calling.

Sri Obama's Pak visit has apparently not been well-received in Dilli. LOL. Good. Let's hope the visit passes off in a hurry with minimal damage. Its almost pointless to hope for anything positive. Defensive action - w.r.t. minimal loss, is the best case here, IMHO.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 22 Oct 2010 10:19

US is pushing a 'managed trade' agenda, and trying to dismantle the 'free trade' agenda it had built earlier. Shows the level of trouble they are in or the level of socialism prevalent in that country - take your pick.

Other major global economies consider free trade crucial to their growth - hence the rejection by Germany, India and China.

So, I look at this trend as another instance of US withdrawing from a leadership position, this time in free trade. The reduction of US from having militarily initiative to passively accepting military situation created by others (because of Afghanistan), has already made Asia safer from US/west.

History will record the Iraq invasion as the last invasion of Asia by the west.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 22 Oct 2010 10:24

arun wrote:

This image is interesting.

It shows that negative view has increased in 2010 since 2009, at the cost of both positive and undecided views. What this means that over 20009, America is viewed in a much more negative light. The only change in opinion is towards negative.

So what has happened to produce this change? Trade is ok, China is more threatening, pakistan is in shambles and US is coming closer to Indian POV (at least apparently) on pakistan.

It was not hard to find out the reason - Davind Coleman Headley.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 22 Oct 2010 11:06

Shri Nicholas Burns writes thusly

The transformation of U.S. ties with New Delhi over the past 10 years, led by Presidents Clinton and Bush, stands as one of the most significant triumphs of recent American foreign policy. It has also been a bipartisan success… Many prominent Indians and Americans, however, now fear this rapid expansion of ties has stalled. Past projects remain incomplete, few new ideas have been embraced by both sides, and the forward momentum that characterized recent cooperation has subsided. The Obama administration has taken significant steps to break through this inertia, including with its Strategic Dialogue this spring and President Obama's planned state visit to India in November 2010. Yet there remains a sense among observers in both countries that this critical relationship is falling short of its promise."

http://www.cnas.org/node/5144

Basically these guys reached out to China and Pakistanin 2009 and we know the results. India should just wait for two more years. Most like a new administration will be there and they might have a genuine desire of partnership with India.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 22 Oct 2010 11:44

I think at this point of time after Obama has anounced that he will visit Pakistan, GOI should go ahead and cancel the november visit although I seriously doubt if they have the balls to take this decision.

I doubt if anything substantial will come out of this trip.India should make it known that there will never be any "strategic partnership" with USA until they stop supporting Pakistan whether it is militarily,financially or strategically.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 22 Oct 2010 11:51

U.S. rules out mediation in Kashmir

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

Rejecting fresh calls by Pakistan seeking its intervention on the Kashmir issue, the US has made it clear that it was for India and Pakistan to find a resolution through “additional dialogue”.

The American position was affirmed a day after Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi insisted that U.S. play an active role in the resolution of Kashmir and other disputes in the south Asian region.

“We recognise the importance of Kashmir to both countries. We absolutely want to see tensions eased and ultimately a resolution to the situation in Kashmir,” State Department spokesman P. J. Crowley said at a news conference at the Foreign Press Center here.

“That we believe needs to come through additional dialogue between Pakistan and India. We have not been asked by both countries to play a particular role,” he said.

“But this is the reason why, for a number of reasons we continue to encourage further dialogue between India and Pakistan,” Mr. Crowley said in response to a question.

Mr. Qureshi, who is in Washington for the U.S.-Pak Strategic Dialogue, had raised the Kashmir issue at a conference, asking the U.S. to help in its resolution.

“It is in the interest of lasting peace, stability and development of the region that the US works for the resolution of disputes in South Asia. This has to begin with justice for the Kashmiri people,” Mr. Qureshi said.

Mr. Qureshi also spoke about the recent unrest in Jammu and Kashmir and said “any person of conscience cannot ignore the use of brute force against defenceless Kashmiri youth.”

“In this unfolding tragedy over 100 Kashmiris have lost their lives in the past three months, many of them teenagers,” he said.

Mr. Qureshi was responding to a question at an event jointly organised by the prestigious Brookings Institute and Asia Society.

His comments came hours after the third round of the Strategic Dialogue between the U.S. and Pakistan began.

Contending that Pakistan is “deeply interested” in a peaceful and stable South Asia, Mr. Qureshi claimed that the prospect, however, “is in danger again by the recent events in Kashmir.”

The Pakistani Foreign Minister’s comments have come despite U.S.’ repeated assertion that Kashmir is a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan and it has to be solved by the two countries.

In response to another question, Mr. Qureshi said Pakistan wants good neighbourly ties with India.

“Pakistan wants a very good neighbourly relationship with India. What we are saying is we have outstanding issues.

Both sides have agreed that dialogue is the only sensible way forward,” he said.

Keywords: Shah Mahmood Qureshi, P J Crowley, India-Pakistan, bilateral issues

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Oct 2010 11:57

It is obvious the Obama Administration is full of dull people with no new ideas and no vision. India cannot develop a relationship with USA as long as it is financing a terrorist state, a state which is also working as the right hand of PRC in containing India.

All India can hope for is that in 2012, America would put a stop to its Democratic Misery and introduce some leadership with new ideas of its place in the world, and what it needs to do to secure it, a new leadership capable of seeing the potential of Indo-US Relations.

As far as the visit goes, India should make it a point to let it be known after the visit through the media, that the Obama Administration blew the warmth of Indo-US Relations, and that Obama Administration did not do its homework.

India swallowed the bitter pill of the Hyde Resolution, USA can also just accept the Nuclear Liability Law, and then move on. The MMRCA Contract should under no circumstances be awarded to the USA, especially as the USA has shown no need to sync its regional strategy with India.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Oct 2010 12:46

Don't want to bracket Pakistan with India visit - Obama

Lovely...only reason Pak is not on Obama's itenary is because he wants to do a separate 'grand' visit to the terrorist nation. Terrorist-appeaser Obama has been nothing but bad news for India ever since he came in !!! If he gets a warm welcome in India after Headley, Pakistan, China, Afghanistan, Outsourcing, nuclear straightjacket etc India deserves to win the Dunce of the Decade award.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 22 Oct 2010 14:11

>>It is obvious the Obama Administration is full of dull people with no new ideas and no vision. India cannot develop a relationship with USA as long as it is financing a terrorist state, a state which is also working as the right hand of PRC in containing India.

Rajesh, US government is also being taken over by tired old men

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 22 Oct 2010 14:41

Unless we learn to inflict costs on the US, they won't feel the pinch in arming the terrorist army. India must not award any big ticket item to the US. Obama understands only jobs creation in the 'greatest' country of the world and so be it.

But going by the hysteria for him not visiting the Golden Temple; I guess we are still in the mental slavery phase. An average Indian constantly seeks approval from the Goras that he is good enough for his own life and that just cascades upto GoI level. No surprises!

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 Oct 2010 15:29

It is obvious the Obama Administration is full of dull people with no new ideas and no vision.

True i too get that impression. What i did notice it was applicable to GWBs first term. IN the 2nd term there were 2 brilliant people in the US admin: George Bush Jr and Condaleeza Rice. Brilliance and vision is not just about intellectual semantics learnt at school, but also about judgement and character. Both GB and CR displayed that in the 2nd term wrt India.

The present dispensation is made of people who try out the same cold war tripe, they types of Colin Powell and Obama seeks comfort in folks like these. I really don't get at what point the US will understand that Porkistan as a single entity is not a viable one. But then..do MMS, libs and assorted WKKs?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Oct 2010 16:34

anchal wrote:But going by the hysteria for him not visiting the Golden Temple; I guess we are still in the mental slavery phase. An average Indian constantly seeks approval from the Goras that he is good enough for his own life and that just cascades upto GoI level. No surprises!

Err, maybe we can go easy with the breast-beating a tad. I don't doubt India's crying need for more assertive leadership and all but the quality of thinking I see reflected in the babucracy at the top - the KSubs, Shyam Sarans, the JN Dixits, the Ajit DOvals and Vikram Soods and the NSA gives pause to the assumption that all is sold out at the top only. Maybe not just yet. Not just yet. Inshallah.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Oct 2010 16:38

"Re-hyphenation" of India and Pak in the eyes of the White House has happened again after Obama took residence there.Look at this "titbit" from a 'horses' mouth.Look at how the Mess-iah is forever forgiving his disciple and rent-boy over extra-judicial killings,while doing b*gger all about Paki terror waged against India!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... abuse.html

Barack Obama's administration has "a lot of concern about not embarrassing" the Pakistani military, a senior official told the Times.

A senior Pakistani official involved in discussions about the matter told the newspaper that the United States had expressed concern about reports of hundreds of extrajudicial killings committed by the Pakistani military. Pakistan was addressing the issue, he said.

But the official noted that so far, the US government "has not threatened us with withholding of assistance or training for any of our military units on these grounds."

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Oct 2010 18:52

Is there any way to get a video of this event?

http://www.idsa.in/event/USIndiaStrateg ... thyJRoemer

US-India Strategic Partnership: What Lies Ahead

October 22, 2010
Event: Special Address
Type: Only by Invitation
Time: 1030 to 1200 hrs
Venue: IDSA Seminar Hall-I
Speaker: Ambassador Timothy J. Roemer, US Ambassador to India
Chairperson: Mr. Naresh Chandra, Chairman, National Security Advisory Board, and former Ambassador to the United States

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Oct 2010 19:08

once in a while I am in the mood where I feel like what philip has posted

the sheer arrogance and lifafa in trying to comment on our Parliaments liability bill is breathtaking

mofos

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2010 21:45

Surya wrote:once in a while I am in the mood where I feel like what philip has posted

the sheer arrogance and lifafa in trying to comment on our Parliaments liability bill is breathtaking

mofos

Its not arrogance but the perception that things can be changed to suit their requirements. People will demand the roof to be removed when they would be perfectly happy with small window. Forget about even window, they should be told to sleep outside.

The real arrogance is havig did their outmost to poison the IUCNA with Hyde(bound) act etc they have the gall to demand that India has to buy US stuff as pro quid quo for the agreement and that it will be governed by total lack of laibility. A la Union Carbide. And the Indian DDM reports the demands as if its from Jehovah!

My fear is the sites for US in Cuddapah etc are in the intra seismic plate in which Koyna eqk already happened. How are these plants qualified to seismic loads relevant to India? A PWR is very sensitive to such loads due to inherent design choices.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Oct 2010 22:19

ramana wrote:[ once in a while I am in the mood where I feel like what philip has posted
the sheer arrogance and lifafa in trying to comment on our Parliaments liability bill is breathtaking
mofos

Its not arrogance but the perception that things can be changed to suit their requirements. People will demand the roof to be removed when they would be perfectly happy with small window. Forget about even window, they should be told to sleep outside.

The real arrogance is havig did their outmost to poison the IUCNA with Hyde(bound) act etc they have the gall to demand that India has to buy US stuff as pro quid quo for the agreement and that it will be governed by total lack of laibility.

These kind of things are due to what they have observed before. For 30 years lot of these kind of talk prescribing solutions to India has been told in public with a free pro west media which creates public opinion and they have observed that public pressure and govt policy changes have occurred. This is one of the easiest psy ops they have done to any other country in the world.
English speaking by the elite which is educated in the west is most susceptible to advice by the western leaders and western media. Entire generation did not worry of the national interest of India and had neglected what the nation needs its strategic interest.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Oct 2010 22:24

harbans wrote:It is obvious the Obama Administration is full of dull people with no new ideas and no vision.

True i too get that impression. What i did notice it was applicable to GWBs first term. IN the 2nd term there were 2 brilliant people in the US admin: George Bush Jr and Condaleeza Rice. Brilliance and vision is not just about intellectual semantics learnt at school, but also about judgement and character. Both GB and CR displayed that in the 2nd term wrt India.

Dont get diverted by what you read and hear in the media by the current leadership. Large scale geo political play is going on and global change which they had sowed in 1970s is still running which is affecting millions of people round the world.

War games which had been planned in the 1960s are now coming to reality and they have created a force of history which they control and drive.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Oct 2010 22:29

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:U.S. rules out mediation in Kashmir

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

Rejecting fresh calls by Pakistan seeking its intervention on the Kashmir issue, the US has made it clear that it was for India and Pakistan to find a resolution through “additional dialogue”.

US should have a private talk with Pakistan and discuss it with them. It has nothing to do with India and they should not announce it to the public.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Oct 2010 23:36

marten don't get me started on Om baba

but the alternative is equally bad

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Oct 2010 00:45

abhischekcc wrote:...
...It shows that negative view has increased in 2010 since 2009, at the cost of both positive and undecided views. What this means that over 20009, America is viewed in a much more negative light. The only change in opinion is towards negative.

As always, things are more complex .. for example in this figure.. not everything had a negative dy/dx.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Oct 2010 02:00

Wonder what the US has done for people to consider that US considers India's interest? Well, the programs that US runs to ensure it has good image in other parts of the world seems to be working

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Oct 2010 03:22

^^^ US does not have equal good image in all the other parts of the world...According to all the polls I have seen, India has better image of US than even some traditional allies. It generally ranks among top 5 nations.

Countless main news outlets have commented on this - India (which is not US ally) comes out near the top of group of allies (50-60% or better positive ) , while Pak, (which is an ally) comes out near the bottom (ranks near the bottom 5) along with US enemies (same rank as NK, Iran, Iraq etc).

This is mutual BTW, Americans in general has positive impression of India (again ranking near the top 5 countries) while Pak has negative impression (ranking near the bottom 5). All the Pak lobbying has not done much..(or may be have done something as the percentage of people who has positive impression is not zero but near single digit

)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Oct 2010 03:47

BTW another 400,000 documents are being leaked by wikileaks.. see if there are any other fall outs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69L37P20101022

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 23 Oct 2010 04:06

Acharya wrote:
harbans wrote:It is obvious the Obama Administration is full of dull people with no new ideas and no vision.

True i too get that impression. What i did notice it was applicable to GWBs first term. IN the 2nd term there were 2 brilliant people in the US admin: George Bush Jr and Condaleeza Rice. Brilliance and vision is not just about intellectual semantics learnt at school, but also about judgement and character. Both GB and CR displayed that in the 2nd term wrt India.
Dont get diverted by what you read and hear in the media by the current leadership. Large scale geo political play is going on and global change which they had sowed in 1970s is still running which is affecting millions of people round the world.

War games which had been planned in the 1960s are now coming to reality and they have created a force of history which they control and drive.

Are you refering to global jihad?

Kesavan · Post by **Kesavan** » 23 Oct 2010 08:14

Amber G. wrote:
abhischekcc wrote:...
...It shows that negative view has increased in 2010 since 2009, at the cost of both positive and undecided views. What this means that over 20009, America is viewed in a much more negative light. The only change in opinion is towards negative.
As always, things are more complex .. for example in this figure.. not everything had a negative dy/dx.

Nice spin. Shall we read the question? Two things pop out:

a) "... of countries like India". The U.S. is in terminal relative decline and the whole world knows it. This is a no-brainer question and isn't India-specific.

b) "takes into account the interests of ..." doesn't imply the U.S. acts positively with respect to said interests. See for example: the 2bn USD in credit for weapons that the animals next door were just granted. This graph together with the negative slope of the other graph actually just shows that Indians think the U.S. "takes into account" our interests, and then damages those interests.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Oct 2010 08:52

Biggest US Inc team coming to India with Barack Obama

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Biggest-U ... 16654.aspx

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Oct 2010 08:54

‘US won’t commit on UNSC’

http://www.hindustantimes.com/americas/ ... 16572.aspx