J & K news and discussion

[Raja Ram]

harbans,

It is not necessary that you should bring sedition charges to show the might of the state. Madam Jaya did not hesitate to use then available POTA to throw the law book at Vaiko, her then adversary and now ally, when he made some speeches supporting the LTTE. Made him be in Jail for more than a year before he even succeded in getting bail.

The point is that what passes of media analysis in terms of legal culpability and practicality is just an exercise in banality by the baleful. Ms. Roy has already committed a far more serious call for armed uprising against the state - a very clear crime that qualifies her for being prosecuted under sedition charges. The state government in question (it was Maharashtra where she made the statement in favour of Maoists in some seminar - not sure about the time now, but clearly remember her call) did not take cognisance, and neither did the centre. The media may not want to bring out these facts in their spin to explain or defend GOI action, or rather inaction. Now why do they have to defend or explain GOI is not to be asked.

It is not that she has not indulged in seditious activities, that can and well proved in a court of law, to be advocating sedition against India. She has. In this case, she may be clear of sedition charges on technical grounds. The key word here is "may". Please note that there are have been cases in the past where courts have interpreted actions to be seditious even when there has been no overt call for voilent uprising. Even if we take it for granted that the Act related to sedition cannot be applied, there are more avenues available to make an example of her.

That the GOI is not ready to do it is the reality. Why so is another matter.

[Lalmohan]

someone from the GOI should give a press soundbyte to the effect of "where else but India could someone stand up and say such things..." then tut tut and allow her to be ignored

let SuAr make a speech in Hindi to any village audience on Haryana or UP about azadi and see how many shoes are thrown at her

[harbans]

Pratyushji, this is not about POK or COK. They are talking only of our part of Kashmir. The principle being invoked is "the right to self determination". This country has held that right before and it was ready to do so for J & K at one time till Pakistan played intransigent and failed to remove their troops. This Right is upheld in most pluralist, liberal democracies. Ironically because of the very freedoms guaranteed for individuals in such societies, "azaadi" or the right is not invoked and becomes meaningless.

Sanku Ji, i am not an advocate on doing nothing and in the context of the above paragraph am trying to do is blow their "Rights" advocacy and mask of liberalism. If they want to play by that rule they also must be prepared to give that right to others under them. Simple. If they say they are prepared to give Ladhaki's and Jammu'ites that right then Ladhak and Leh (largest geographical areas in J & K) come into India and so does Jammu. The valley a rump 30 km by 70 km goes away. And that is something Geelani and Co do not seek.

Hence they cannot give the right to self determination to Jammu'ites and Ladhak'ites. And if they cannot give those rights then the very principle under which they demand such exposes their hypocrisy. So when people are talking of Azaadi why not go a step further and blow that in their very face. People will laugh openly at SuAR and Hurriyat. They don't have a way out of this one.

[negi]

There is no such thing as right time and right place to do the RIGHT thing , if a State is having to wait for more than 60 years to settle an issue which has only worsened with the time then it only points that all the talk is cheap. After the incidents in Sophore and Shopian sometime last year it was clear that the state machinery in J&K was complicit with the separatists, fudged autopsy reports and loose talking by Abdullah junior were clear signs, during that time no one from Dilli dare twiddle a thumb (and yes I remember ARoy came up with an article on the lines of 'India needs azadi from Kashmir as much as Kashmir needs Azadi from India' ) nothing was done then and obviously Geelani saw the opportunity to corner the Dilli gobmint and now we have this interlocutor and standing parliamentary committee dog and pony show running, the constitution of these bodies again tells what MMS and his Gobmint are upto. Geelani and his handlers have realized the best way to bring the GoI to its knees is by using its own 'abstract' Constitution written in Queen's english against it and it is working for now we have worthies talking about amendments and malleability of the rag.

[harbans]

It is not necessary that you should bring sedition charges to show the might of the state. Madam Jaya did not hesitate to use then available POTA to throw the law book at Vaiko, her then adversary and now ally, when he made some speeches supporting the LTTE. Made him be in Jail for more than a year before he even succeded in getting bail.

Yes i was wondering aloud in a previous post exactly the same thing. What she is doing against the Constitution is that she is advocating abrogation of individual rights of citizens within the Nation State of India..while the Constitution guarantees Individual rights. She does that by advocating and siding with organizations that are promoting abrogation of Indivudal rights in favor of Sharia or extreme left ideologies. That is why it's best to blow up their concept of Azaadi. They seek Truant rule. SuAR is not siding with the forces of freedom. She is siding with the forces of fascism. Thats why i was wondering aloud if she could be chargesheeted with trying to dilute the individual rights of millions of Indian citizens by advocating truant ideologies masquerading as "Azaadi".

[Raja Ram]

harbans,

A very valid observation and possible method of making an example of this lady. The only thing that comes in way is - for prosecuting this line, you may have to take a stand against certain Islamic practices, the weaing of the burkha for instance or consuming alcohol, in establishing that she supports a fascist cause. Because the fascism here stems from an interpretation and implementation of Islam. Now that is not something the GOI will want to do. Not this one in any case. It would be seen as anti-minority.

But your point is well made, should the GOI decide to take action, it has many options. This lady has committed enough crimes to be prosecuted legally under the law of the land. And that prosecution can be done under many legal provisions - not only the anti sedition laws.

[Lalmohan]

rajaram - whilst that is true, now is not the time

[harbans]

The only thing that comes in way is - for prosecuting this line, you may have to take a stand against certain Islamic practices, the weaing of the burkha for instance or consuming alcohol, in establishing that she supports a fascist cause. Because the fascism here stems from an interpretation and implementation of Islam. Now that is not something the GOI will want to do. Not this one in any case. It would be seen as anti-minority.

I meant it in a little different context. By sharing dias with Geelani who is openly advocating that in "Azaad Kashmir" Muslims will not be allowed to drink, she is immediately conflicting with the constitution that guarantees individual rights. By sharing dias and advocating Kashmirs independence she is conflicting with the constitutions right for millions of Lashaki and Hindus a and Sikhs who seek not sharia nut the Indian constitutions guarantee of individual rights. The same with the Naxal movement.

She is not representing freedom, but the forces of darkness that will take individual freedoms granted by India's constitution away. Anyone who is forced to wear the Burkha can go to an Indian court and seek redress. If a case is filed on those terms she will have no defense. She will be exposed as a fraud representative of freedoms. That will sink her completely. For that is her plank. She thinks she's some godsend for freedom and individual rights, which truly and clearly she is not.

[ramana]

Yes she represents the forces of darkenss and will use the Constitution to be able to do that. That is the modus operandi of the extremist. They use the very Constitituion to destroy it.

I called her a "malignant narcissist". Madhu Kisawar who knows her better did the same.

[negi]

One, the vast majority of "secularized" Indians will start realizing the game plan of these "intellectuals" and start to identify around national issues and forces that are seen to be more nationalistic. Second, the ruling national party, Congress, will be forced to take more realistic and nationalistic stands - their desire for power and to be in the right side of public opinion should be inducement enough, being past masters in vote bank politics.

With all due respect gurudev this whole argument of waiting for public opinion is an idealistic talk in fact that is what JLN and other dreamy eyed boys thought when they did not integrate J&K with India just like any other state. Do you think common man in India (specially the electorate a majority of which is still in rural areas) really cares about J&K issue ? Unless this change in public opinion affects the voting patterns how is it gonna force Con party to mend it's ways ? Also until 90s the penetration of electronic and print media was almost negligible so what was it that was preventing the GoI to take some stern steps (removing the article 370) ? In fact 90s was an ideal time for revoking A370 for the valley was in turmoil and Pakistan was very overt in its terrorist activities whatever little public opinion could have been formed would have been in GoI's favor.

[ramana]

Negi, Indian polity is a very divided set-up due to double colonisations and the INC dciding to use votebank politics to retain power as they failed int eh development policies. So the GOI has to use the paarkalam or lets see policy to ensure that the offender does so egregious a transgression that all the groups unite to demand punishment. Give it a couple of generations for the socially engineered to fade away. Meantime keep an eye and ensure core is not damaged.

[chetak]

Yes she represents the forces of darkenss and will use the Constitution to be able to do that. That is the modus operandi of the extremist. They use the very Constitituion to destroy it.

I called her a "malignant narcissist". Madhu Kisawar who knows her better did the same.

suzzane arundathi roy is an intellectual lightweight who constantly seeks the balm of publicity to soothe her innate sense of insecurity and her feeling of inadequacy.

A one book wonder that wasn't very good to begin with but she is also a manufactured booker prize winner like ramachandra guha is a manufactured historian, manufactured by the very same people who are now reaping the profits of their well thought actions.

She has mutated into a sly goddess of big lies. Truth be damned as she banks on the very short memory of the Indian public.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/292729/Inte ... onest.html

Intellectually dishonest
October 28, 2010 7:16:11 PM

Shashi Shekhar

Arundhati Roy once described BR Ambedkar as India’s most important thinker and alleged that his life story had been ‘sidelined’. Ironically, she has shown little or no faith in constitutionalism which was so dear to Ambedkar. Instead, she is constantly on the lookout for the proverbial oxygen of publicity

Writer and activist Arundhati Roy while endorsing a new book on BR Ambedkar titled Bhimayana — Experiences of Untouchability described Ambedkar as India’s most important thinker while making the charge that Ambedkar’s life story has been deliberately sidelined.

The irony of course is the little faith Arundhati Roy has shown in Ambedkar’s constitutionalism.

Ambedkar, speaking in the Constituent Assembly on November 4, 1948 had this to say on the nature of the Republic of India: “Federation not being result of an agreement no State has right to secede from it. Federation is a Union because it is indestructible.” In the same speech Ambedkar also made a poignant observation on ‘Constitutional Morality’, saying it is not a natural sentiment and that it needs to be cultivated.

Sixty-two years on Ambedkar could not have been more correct, given what little appreciation his most ardent fan Arundhati Roy has shown for the same ‘Constitutional Morality’.

In August of 2002 the Financial Express carried a telling editorial on how thanks to the Tehri Dam 11 lakh hectares of land in Uttar Pradesh were irrigated while farmers who depended on an additional seven lakh hectares would be able to withstand another year’s drought. The “bhooka nanga” Bharat of these drought struck farmers did not let them down that year despite the excessive snow melt and unprecedented levels of water. The editorial asked a poignant question —“Where was Arundhati Roy”. The reference of course was to the anti-Dam agitation by Medha Patkar and Arundhati Roy that also saw her in contempt of the Supreme Court.

Arundhati Roy’s obstructionist activism in so many ways reminds us of the many dangers Ambedkar had warned in his closing speech to the Constituent.

On September 29, 2001 exactly 18 days after the most devastating terrorist attack in modern history, a contingent of 25 Hartford Connecticut firefighters, including its chief made the morning bus and ferry trip across Long Island Sound to pay their respects to one of 343 New York City firefighters who died trying to rescue people in the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. On September 29, 2001 while New York City was still burying its bravest fire fighters and mourning their loss in funerals across the city and its suburbs, an opinion column appeared in the Guardian, headlined, “The Algebra of Infinite Justice”. A column in which a presumptuous Arundhati Roy sermonised to an Americca on how there was no moral distinction between President Geirge W Bush and Osama bin Laden. That was just 18 days after 9/11 while America was still mourning its dead conducting funerals.

It was back then in 2001 a sign of the harvest of intellectualism gone horribly wrong when Arundhati Roy failed to make a moral distinction between a democratically elected head of state and a known terrorist. It was also a travesty of human values that in her failure she mocked those who died defending that democracy and had not yet been buried.

It is the same travesty playing all out again as the moral legitimacy of those who die defending the Indian Constitution is questioned while forgetting that they died protecting that freedom to question. Individuals like Arundhati Roy have no credibility not because they hold views ideologically opposite to the rest of us but because they are intellectually dishonest.

Intellectual dishonesty that was abundantly on display during a trip to Pakistan when the phrase “Azaadi for Kashmir” never once crossed Arundhati Roy’s lips.

On August 16, 2002 Arundhati Roy famously declared herself a “Citizen of the World” on a visit to Pakistan. In the same trip when asked for her position on Kashmir, Arundhati Roy went on record to say that “she had no position on Kashmir”. In fact according to the PTI report of August 16, 2002, when pressed further she had no “direct solution” to offer. That she has become the flavour of the azaadi season in Kashmir in the present times speaks of both her penchant for pitching herself against the state to attract attention as well as to the naiveté of her hosts.

This is why we must neither ignore intellectual anarchists like Arundhati Roy nor must we unwittingly give oxygen to their acts of intellectual arson. We must instead shame them by showing them up for the hypocrites they are so that the unthinking masses don’t make the mistake of indulging them.

Hypocrites, who on the one hand swear by Ambedkar’s vision, then go on to sully that vision with their practice of the very same “Grammar of Anarchy” that Ambedkar so disapproved of.

[nachiket]

^^Excellent article by Shashi Shekhar. Kudos to the Daily Pioneer as well. We need more of these plastered across all major news media.

[harbans]

GOI not to file a case..

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 829993.cms

The decision was taken after considering various issues and it was decided that such a move would give unnecessary publicity to them and a handle to separatists in the Valley, officials in the Union Home Ministry said.

"We have decided to ignore them," they said. After the October 21 incident, when Geelani and others made statements, which were seen as an attempt to instigate secession, the Home Ministry sought legal opinion on the issue which suggested that a case could be made out under Section 124 (A) of IPC (disaffection against the State).

However, after taking political opinion, the Ministry decided not to file any case against Geelani and Roy.

Meanwhile Guardian spins it..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -roy-india

[AjayKK]

In an irony that reminds one of Chankian moves, leftists like Roy and Sengupta and other jholawalas who were present at 'Azadi: The Only Way’ call themselves as "liberals and want "azadi" for the valley, in effect supporting Sharia law which makes them Assorted Liberals for Liberal Application of Sharia. Providing such ALLAS bandits , a free run by the GoI is truly Chankian, like every other move, like SeS where as per Chankian theory, India had got sanction from Pakistan to provide moral and diplomatic support to the Baluchis, which unfortunately or perhaps due to some Chankian twist was not provided.


In J & K, Govt fears Chhittisinghpora-type attack during Obama's visit

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 824205.cms

NEW DELHI: The government apprehends that Pakistan-based terror groups may try to attack civilians and put the blame for such an incident on the Indian Army to attract global attention to Kashmir in run-up to US President Barack Obama's visit to India early next month.

The Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) had carried out such an attack in Chhittisinghpora in the state a decade ago during the visit of then US President Bill Clinton.

Union home secretary G K Pillai said on Wednesday: "We do believe that the visit of US President to India is, shall I say from the publicity point of view, large enough to try and create something even if it is not in any place nearby where President Obama would be. But it could be somewhere else and therefore we would take all precautions."

I am sure, it is a Chankian ploy to garner attention in case of a terror attack or any other incident, which if it happens will provide the GoI with a Chankian ploy to request US for another round of Chankian discussions, and which a few months later with hindsight will be applauded as a Chankian ploy that prevented further attacks until the next round of attacks take place. This comes after reading the threads which state that certain kashmiri separatists were Chankian agents until the stone pelting incidents started and the GoI kept talking with Pakistan to discredit the no-longer-Chankian kashmiri separatists and prevent further strife in various states of the country.

Isn't it time we had a cheerful Chankian-Predictor-Simulator algorithm to deal with all such Chankian situations? Please volunteer to create one.

[harbans]

This was posted in the comments section of the Guardian fArticle..


Arundhati Roy and Kashmirs struggle for Justice

A few years back, an opinion poll conducted under the patronage of Lord Avebury, a known British protagonist of Pakistan, found that only 6 percent Kashmiris wanted to join Pakistan, 61 percent wanted to remain in India and 33 percent were undecided.

In May 2010, King's College, London University, at the instance of the son of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi of Libya, carried out another similar survey in Kashmir. This survey found that only 2 percent of the people of Kashmir wanted to join Pakistan.

Muslims among whom separatist sentiments and separatist violence are generally confined, constitute a minority in the state. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and non-Kashmiri Muslims like Gujars, Bakarwals and Kargil Shias are nearly 60 percent of the state's population. They do not nurture any anti-India sentiments

Any one knows about these surveys? Seems credible. But i too think India would win comfortably if there was indeed a plebiscite.

[ramana]

Harbans more important to confirm his demographics no rest of the population.

I still think there is massa hand to create a new launchpad for Cnetral Asia.

[Raghavendra]

Meanwhile Guardian spins it..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -roy-india

More than 112 civilians – mostly youths – have been killed and several thousand injured, mainly by the Indian military and paramilitary.

When did Army fire at protestors? AFAIK only police and crpf have fired to control berserk protesters

[Raghavendra]

This was posted in the comments section of the Guardian fArticle..


Arundhati Roy and Kashmirs struggle for Justice

A few years back, an opinion poll conducted under the patronage of Lord Avebury, a known British protagonist of Pakistan, found that only 6 percent Kashmiris wanted to join Pakistan, 61 percent wanted to remain in India and 33 percent were undecided.

In May 2010, King's College, London University, at the instance of the son of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi of Libya, carried out another similar survey in Kashmir. This survey found that only 2 percent of the people of Kashmir wanted to join Pakistan.

Muslims among whom separatist sentiments and separatist violence are generally confined, constitute a minority in the state. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and non-Kashmiri Muslims like Gujars, Bakarwals and Kargil Shias are nearly 60 percent of the state's population. They do not nurture any anti-India sentiments

Any one knows about these surveys? Seems credible. But i too think India would win comfortably if there was indeed a plebiscite.

PDF
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/16 ... ashmir.pdf

HTML
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=in

[CRamS]

To re-iterate my opinion, SuAR's Kashmir poison as far as India is concerned has neverthless now become potion in the international court of opinion, read west. To that end, India would be courting un-necessary trouble & attention by incarcerating her now. What I would do would be to let her continue to vent her ani-Brahmin, anti-upper Caste, anti-Hindu hatred with all the fury she can muster. If there are any nationalists in the English language media, I would hope they would retaliate exposing her hollow claims, and cool off the temperature until the messiah gets his exotic India fill and gets away to more important business. Then, the nationalists in the current govt like Pillai, PC (?) etc, can up the ante at a later stage if SuAR bites again, and it would be time to bite her back. The wild card of course is MMS and his cabal.

Just when I thought, Indian "secularists" couldn't have sunk any lower, here comes a deracinated Kashmiri Pandit who proclaims KMs demand for "azaadi" and their forcing the mass exodus of his brethren has nothing to do with religion. And finally, this poor Pandit seems to have incurable Stockholm syndrome after being badhered by the likes of Geelani & Co, that he actually admires and feels the kindness of Geelnai:

Geelani, the ‘incorrigible hawk’, appealed to India to talk to Kashmiris in the language of insaniyat. Responding to Roy’s query, he said an independent Kashmir will grant equal rights to all. He reiterated his demand for a referendum in the undivided J&K, promising to abide by the verdict, even if it went in India’s favour. He expressed hope of India becoming a superpower, outstripping even the US and China.

I actually thought that Geelani is Paki LET piglet bereft of the suave duplicity of TSP RAPE, but looks like he was well coached by the ISI to say things that Indian elites crave about and would have been picked up by the media: India is on the way to superpowerdom and only Kashmir is coming in the way. There is always a silver lining in every dark cloud. Fortunately, as a result of the seditious antics of SuAR, the likes of Bakara and Rajdeep didn't do their subtle psy-ops supporting "azzadi" based on Geelani's desire to see India become a super power .

[ramana]

Because they can't compete with her Narcissism!

[ramana]

For completeness....
We can’t be indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan

The Northern Areas, illegally occupied by Pakistan, has been renamed Gilgit-Baltistan. This region is of great strategic importance to India. It borders Afghanistan and is legally a part of India, but our decision-makers have been ignoring it. In the 20th century, the British were alive to its importance in the context of the threat from Czarist Russia, and after the 1917 Revolution from the Soviet Union. Current reports of an increased Chinese military presence in Gilgit are a cause of grave concern.

The British had a political agent at Gilgit and later obtained a lease to administer the area. As Independence approached, the lease was terminated and Gilgit reverted to Jammu and Kashmir.Brigadier Ghansara Singh of the state Army took over as governor of Gilgit from the British political agent, Colonel Beacon, on August 1, 1947. Major Brown, commanding the Gilgit Scouts, staged a military coup at Gilgit, surrounding the residence of the governor on November 1, 1947. Brig. Ghansara Singh was forced to surrender and the Pakistan flag was hoisted in Gilgit. Pakistan got its first taste of a military coup. The non-Muslim troops of the Maharaja’s Army took refuge in Skardu fort along with a large number of Hindu and Sikh refugees. Col. Shahmsher Jung Thapa was commanding the garrison. On November 1, 1947, when this coup took place, Pakistani forces had advanced to the outskirts of Srinagar. With our backs to the wall, we were preparing to launch an offensive to throw them out of the Valley. Our resources were slender in the Valley and could not be reinforced in the winter.

The grass airfield at Srinagar would soon become unusable after snowfall and the road across Banihal pass was blocked with snow. There was then no tunnel at Banihal. We were in no position to do anything about Gilgit. When the snow melted and the road and air communications were restored, we reinforced our strength in the Valley. Our summer offensive was launched with the main thrust to Muzaffarabad. Gurais Valley was secured in the north to guard against the threat from Gilgit and Sonamarg in the East against the threat from Kargil, then under Pakistani occupation. The relief of Skardu was to be carried out subsequently.


Our summer offensive achieved reasonable success with the capture of Tithwal, tantalisingly close to Muzaffarabad. On the appeal of the UN to both India and Pakistan, our offensive was suspended in June 1948. The Skardu garrison held out heroically for six months. Unfortunately, we did not then have transport aircraft with pressurised cabins, needed for flying at 20,000 feet, to carry out air drops at Skardu. By August 1948, food ran out in Skardu, which had a large civilian population that had taken shelter there.

We had to most reluctantly order the Skardu garrison to surrender. On August 14, 1948, Col. Thapa had to raise the white flag. The enemy massacred Hindus and Sikhs. By September they captured Kargil and advanced to Ladakh, threatening Leh. After two unsuccessful attempts we managed to break through the Zoji-la heights, establishing a world record by using tanks at such high altitude. We captured Kargil and advanced another 200 miles to secure Leh. Soon the ceasefire came into force and Gilgit Baltistan remained under Pakistan occupation.

Pakistan has been assiduously promoting two myths. First, Gilgit was liberated by an indigenous freedom movement against the tyrannical rule of the Maharaja and the people joined Pakistan of their free will. Second, Gilgit-Baltistan was never a part of J&K. Pakistan detached Gilgit-Baltistan from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and denied its people basic political rights. They still cannot vote for the Pakistan Parliament.

All the top government positions are held by Pakistanis who get special allowances for serving in the region, as the British officers got in India.

The council, recently designated an Assembly, has a nominated chairman known as the chief executive officer with a local deputy elected on a very limited franchise. Eighty-five per cent of the people in the region are Shias and are subjected to ethnic and sectarian violence. There has been a prolonged agitation in the region against anti-Shia school textbooks and the government settling Punjabis and Pathans to alter the region’s demographic profile. Interestingly, members of the United Gilgit-Baltistan movement recently complained that India has not been doing anything for them and they want reservation of seats in Indian educational institutions for students from their region!

Although New Delhi maintains the whole of J&K is an integral part of India, we have been indifferent to the travails of the people of Gilgit-Baltistan.

In March 1953, Pakistan gifted 5,000 sq. km of territory in Shansgam Valley to China. The Karakoram Highway through this region provides a road link between China and Pakistan.

In the present crisis, we can no longer remain indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan. Simultaneously, we need to build our military muscle to deter military adventurism against us by either China or Pakistan. Belatedly, some efforts are now being made. This must be completed on a war footing to safeguard our national interests.

A rail link is now under construction from Tibet to join the Pakistan rail network and connect to Gwadar port. Permanent military barracks have been constructed for increasing numbers of Chinese troops. This region is an important link in China’s String of Pearls strategy to contain India. In 2005, we agreed to the opening of the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road. As governor of J&K, in my Republic Day address that year I had urged the opening of the Kargil-Skardu road. Musharraf had allowed a PoK delegation led by a former chief justice to visit Srinagar. This included four members from Gilgit. These four called on me and thanked me for taking up the opening of the Kargil-Skardu road. They wanted their visas extended to enable them to visit Kargil because, they said, they had a deep attachment for the people of Kargil. I arranged for them to visit Kargil. They also mentioned their local problems. Baroness Emma Nicholson, a member of the European Union Parliament, was deputed to prepare a report on Kashmir. She visited PoK, Gilgit-Baltistan and Indian-administered Kashmir. I had a long discussion with her in Srinagar. In her report she praised the functioning of democracy in Indian-administered Kashmir, criticised the lack of it in PoK and its total absence in Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan tried to scuttle this report but the European Parliament passed it by over 400 votes, with only nine votes against it.

In the present crisis, we can no longer remain indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan. Simultaneously, we need to build our military muscle to deter military adventurism against us by either China or Pakistan. Belatedly, some efforts are now being made. This must be completed on a war footing to safeguard our national interests.

- The author, a retired lieutenant-general, was
Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu and Kashmir.

Can we have link to the Nicholson report?

[Gagan]

Quit using the name SuAR.

The full name is SuARni.

[harbans]

Raghav ji thanks for the links. The Chatham survey gives a pretty good idea of the situation. Folks harping plebiscite should have a look at that report.

The two questions envisaged under the UN resolutions of 1948/49, which proposed a plebiscite, were restricted to the choice of the whole of the former Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir joining India or joining Pakistan. This poll shows that preference for those options is highly polarized. 21% of the population said they would vote for the whole of Kashmir to join India, and 15% said they would vote for it to join Pakistan. Furthermore, only 1% of the population in AJK say they would vote to join India, while only 2% of the population in J&K say they would vote to join Pakistan. There is further polarization between the districts.

However, although 43% of the total population said they would vote for independence, in only five out of eighteen districts was there a majority preference for the independence of the whole of Kashmir.

Importantly Jammu was excluded from the Survey.

[jamwal]

^^
Exclusion of Jammu (and Laddakh ?) can be taken in a positive way. Even with a significant muslim population, inclusion of Jammu in any such poll/plebiscite will not allow Pakis and even pro-azadi simians to succeed in their designs.

[harbans]

The survey was limited to Kashmir. Ladhak was included. Simply means that if there's an India-Pakistan clean all out, no other options plebiscite in the entire J & K including POK, India should still win hands down. Importantly Ladhak and Leh, Kargil areas comprise geographically the largest areas. The survey must have stunned the British protagonists and other backers who'd have thought quite the opposite. And this is despite sustained anti-India campaigns last 20 years or so.

[Lalmohan]

^^^ there has been no publicity of this report at all...

[harbans]

I think this report should be at Page 1 of this thread. It's educational in many ways as it depicts J & K's ground reality much more objectively. Extremely important to understand this study to understand Paki perfidy and India's stance. Must for Westerners who want to know but don't get a handle on the complexity.

[jamwal]

Even within India how much attention has been given to the real situation in J&K ? For more than half of Indians, J&K is just a violent, scary place populated by Muslim Kashmiris. If everybody really knew demographics and corresponding ideologies of the three regions, there'd have been much less rona-dhona over the years. I can swear on anything, before that article by Maharaja Kaul was posted in previous avataar of this thread, no media house ever published those statistics. It was only after it was posted and analysed here that this topic was covered in a few newspapers.

[Prem]

Quit using the name SuAR.

The full name is SuARni.

Now i know why Suars across the line are happy at the prospect of natural marry making , gup-shup together .

[Muppalla]

I think this report should be at Page 1 of this thread. It's educational in many ways as it depicts J & K's ground reality much more objectively. Extremely important to understand this study to understand Paki perfidy and India's stance. Must for Westerners who want to know but don't get a handle on the complexity.

The report is good for reading and using that for psy-ops and use is as a argument point. Beyond that there should be no ground action based on such reports and India should not venture into some referendum or elections to acertain views etc.

Certain elements in the west are seeing an emrgence of "Abdurrahman Wahid" in India and hence these reports. Under no circumstances India should allow these thoughts.

[CRamS]

At best I would derive PR value from such reports, but it would a truly colossal mountain of a blunder, a criminal one at that, should India actually entertain such a diabolical notion as referendum after so much water has flown. This would be crime that would dwarf JLN's decision to refer TSP invasion of J&K in 1948 to the US (oops, I erred, but it turns out to be correct after all: UN == US ).

[harbans]

At best I would derive PR value from such reports, but it would a truly colossal mountain of a blunder, a criminal one at that, should India actually entertain such a diabolical notion as referendum after so much water has flown.

CRamji, that is precisely what the results of the poll idicate. The divergence between different geographical areas and population demographics is such that a plebiscite is likely to offer no solution. And more so as you mention since already so much water has already flown. From the report:

These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute. Nor is there evidence that an independence option could offer a straightforward alternative.

[amit]

http://www.dailypioneer.com/292729/Inte ... onest.html


Intellectually dishonest
October 28, 2010 7:16:11 PM

Shashi Shekhar

This article is a keeper. It dissects the Su AR ni (btw good observation, Gagan ) like none other.

I particularly liked this:

This is why we must neither ignore intellectual anarchists like Arundhati Roy nor must we unwittingly give oxygen to their acts of intellectual arson. We must instead shame them by showing them up for the hypocrites they are so that the unthinking masses don’t make the mistake of indulging them.

Hypocrites, who on the one hand swear by Ambedkar’s vision, then go on to sully that vision with their practice of the very same “Grammar of Anarchy” that Ambedkar so disapproved of.

[Pratyush]

Handcuffed to history

Balraj Puri

Posting in full, relevant sections in bold, with mu comments in blue.

Union Home Minister, P. Chidambaram observed, in an exclusive interview to Hindustan Times, that there was a need to look into the promises made in the Delhi Agreement in the 1952, Indira-Sheikh Accord in 1972, and in the understanding of 1986 (between Rajiv Gandhi and Farooq Abdullah).

In the present context, the understanding of 1986 is most relevant. Commenting on it then, I had written in an article "net effect of the Accord would be that Kashmir will go Punjab way (when it was in the grip of terrorism) and Farooq (the then Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir) would go the Barnala (the dismissed and isolated Chief Minister of Punjab) way."

Farooq Abdullah met me the same day when the article was published and asked me how I could compare him with Barnala, who used to live in a fortress whereas he was roaming freely. I replied that it took Barnala two months to destroy himself politically, whereas Farooq's father had left such rich assets that even if he squandered it with both hands, it could last for another two years. It was a friendly warning. If he listened to it, he might be saved. Almost after two years, the first incident of militancy occurred when the president of a block committee of the ruling National Conference was killed in Srinagar by a militant.

My argument was that before the accord the National Conference provided an outlet to anti-Centre sentiments, whereas the Congress had become an effective outlet for anti-state government sentiments. The accord destroyed both outlets, making a secessionist vent inevitable.

Rajiv Gandhi is reported to have realised that "the accord was the single biggest mistake he made while in office". {He seems to be ignoring Shah Bano Case }He told Vir Sanghvi, the then editor of Sunday, that he thought "it was important that the Congress and the National Conference remained at opposite ends of the political spectrum." Otherwise, he said, "protest votes would end up going to the extremists." (Hindustan Times, November 2, 2005).

Earlier, the Farooq government was dismissed in 1984 after he had hosted a conclave of India's opposition parties, which were no less patriotic than the ruling party. The moral in both cases (1984 and 1986) was that Kashmir, unlike other states of India, could not elect a government which was not loyal to the party in power at the Centre.

The Indira-Abdullah Accord of 1975 had received massive popular applause. In the first election to the assembly in 1977, the Janata Party, the ruling party at the Centre, mobilised all the anti-Abdullah elements. Some of them had become anti-India or pro-Pakistan for want of a pro-India outlet. This was made available in the form of the Janata Party. They joined it, even though it included the Jana Sangh.

In the fairest election {WTF is he talking about}so far, the National Conference swept the poll, the Janata party won only two out of 42 seats in the Kashmir valley. The rout of the ruling party at the Centre by the regional party was a unique, and thrilling experience for the people. It made them realise, for the first time, the potentialities of being a citizen of India, and marked a momentous step towards the emotional integration of Kashmir with the rest of India, as it established that loyalty to India and to the Government of India were not synonymous. The Sheikh, who remained in power in the state from 1975 to 1982, could make the people of the Valley proud Kashmiris as well as proud Indians.{Why did they have to be pandered in this way.}

The Sheikh's son and successor switched loyalty to any party that came to power, including the BJP-led NDA government in which Omar was a minister of state for external affairs. The Centre, too, got used to this pattern. This is evident in the latest eight-point package for J&K announced by the Centre on September 25. Seven points of the package were within the jurisdiction of the state government. Any diktat from the Centre on them was uncalled for. The Congress could, at the most, advise the chief minister through its coalition partner on these points.

The first step for a rational Kashmir policy should be that the State government gets at least as much autonomy as other state governments in federal India have got{What is he talking about, I thought that J&K had more autimomy then rest of Indian states of the Union put together, was I wrong}. The state government be persuaded to adopt a federal and decentralised set-up so that urges of its three regions and all ethnic identities are reconciled.

Balraj Puri is Director, Institute of Jammu and Kashmir Affairs , Jammu. The views expressed by the author are personal.

[chetak]

Yesterday, on undie TV burqa asked ramachandra guha whether suzzane arundathi roy was a scholar or an intellectual ( as if burqa actually knew the difference!! ) and guha replied that suzzane was neither.

The knives are already out.

suzzane roy had apparently badmouthed and belittled guha by calling him a cricket historian and guha waited 9 long years to publicly get back at her.

Such is the vengeful mentality of our "writers" and "historians". Shades of romilla thapar and her poisonous ilk!!

[rohitvats]

A small tid-bit about the offensive actions to take kargil and Leh in 1948 - General Cariappa, then COAS, went against the directives of Nehru to not launch 'offensive' operations. He authorized the Operation Bison to take Zoji La and then other territories. The nation owes this man a real debt.

Another point - those who've read Sarila's book about partition may remember that there was a plan as way back as 1919 to keep devide India and keep Northern Areas. I found the reference to the same in another book (THE LONG ROAD TO SIACHEN: THE QUESTION WHY) where the author (Kunal Verma) met Rajiv Gandhi (for some other purpose and spoke to him about 1919 report) and RG admitted to having the copy of that report with him in his home. He agreed to show the same to the author but them events ovetook them and RG was assasinated in 1991.

It has surmised in the book that Jinnah was lead up the garden path by the British - whose objective was set only on the Northern Areas. To this end, the dash for Srinagar was a ruse to hide the main design. And once it was achieved, they let the assault towards Srinagar fritter away. It talks of the delay in Baramulla by the Lashkar as engineered by some 'mysterious' force which implied hint at the British.

[amit]

Yesterday, on undie TV burqa asked ramachandra guha whether suzzane arundathi roy was a scholar or an intellectual ( as if burqa actually knew the difference!! ) and guha replied that suzzane was neither.

The knives are already out.

suzzane roy had apparently badmouthed and belittled guha by calling him a cricket historian and guha waited 9 long years to publicly get back at her.

Such is the vengeful mentality of our "writers" and "historians". Shades of romilla thapar and her poisonous ilk!!

Suzzane baby will be destroyed by her own ilk. When the Maoists and Islamists discover she's of no use - that is she's no lightening rod to provoke the GoI in order to get noticed by the Naom Chomsky brigade, they will discard her like used toilet paper.

[Pratyush]

Perhaps this is the reason why the GOi is not persuing her to the fullest extent possible.

[abhishek_sharma]

Whose line is it anyway: J&K interlocutors leave Cong worried

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/whose ... ed/704151/