Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 15:14

Dont really understand why we are writing pages after pages of post to prove hindi == urdu stuff. The reason Hindi was sankritized from hindustani post independence has an interesting story. I read it in "My Days with Nehru" by John Mathai who was his secretery. Seems that chacha nehru was furious hearing AIR (Akashwani) news in Hindi and Mathai's argument was that it would make it more closer to South Indians by having sanskrit instead of persian turkic laced hindustani.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 Oct 2010 15:21

I think we are missing the point. What they speak in Terroristan is Terroristani language. They don't speak Urdu anymore.
Thats what Pakis are trying to convey. The language they speak is totally different from anything that is spoken anywhere else in this world especially in India.

vic · Post by **vic** » 30 Oct 2010 16:45

Re Shiv

The issue is what is the distance from Chinese borders to their economic industrial areas, me think around 3000km+. So what is better 5000km on land or 15000km on sea?

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 30 Oct 2010 16:50

Ali, I think it's a measure of how much that article hits home that you decided to decloak and respond. I think the mango Abdul's reactions in that article are also instructive - you don't see what you don't want to believe. Self-confirming bias, anyone?

Also, while you have used 'pure' Urdu in your examples, here's another simple point: both Hindi & Urdu or rather all dialects of Hindi including Urdu are classified as Indo-European languages. As is Persian, btw. Arabic is not an Indo-European language. Thus the point about sentence structure and forms. changing a few words here and there won't change the truth.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 30 Oct 2010 16:55

vic wrote:Re Shiv

The issue is what is the distance from Chinese borders to their economic industrial areas, me think around 3000km+. So what is better 5000km on land or 15000km on sea?

vic: There are two items to consider -

1. 15,000km on sea could actually be better, because of 0 infrastructure costs, low per-unit transportation costs for bulk items, no issues of mountainous terrain, etc.

2. OTOH, that sea lane passes right by US (India) and through Malacca Straits, whereas the long and winding road across the mountains to the gates of Mordor runs all the way through (nominally) orc-held territory, which the eye of Saruman watcheth over.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 17:30

bious bakis warned against drug smuggling during haj trip

Haj Pilgrims smuggling drugs are punishable by death in Saudi Arabia: Hamid Saeed

Hamid Saeed Kazmi, Federal Minister for Religious Affairs said Haj Pilgrims are instructed to be careful of drug smuggling as the offense is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia.
Talking to private TV channel here on Saturday Hamid Saeed Kazmi said all Haj Pilgrims are instructed to be aware of drug smuggling as this offense is not only punishable by death in Saudi Arabia but also breaches the honor and prestige of Pakistan. However he added that our training of one week or 10 days bears no affect on those who are habitually involved in criminals activities
He said that drug smugglers arrested from Peshawar, who attempted to smuggle drug capsules were not deceived but they are professional criminals. He said that it is good that they have been arrested in Pakistan as if they would have been arrested in Saudi Arabia they would have been executed as per their law. He said such acts not only breach the country’s prestige, could have caused more hardships for Pakistani pilgrims and Saudi Arabia could have placed a ban on Pakistani pilgrims.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Oct 2010 17:31

The Sunday Guardian reports that a group of Pakistani prisoners in Tihar jail, of the Gohar Shahi sect, would rather continue on in Tihar jail or deported to some other country rather than being deported back to Pakistan. Their case will be heard in the Delhi High Court on November 24.

Ali · Post by **Ali** » 30 Oct 2010 18:11

Jaeger wrote:Ali, I think it's a measure of how much that article hits home that you decided to decloak and respond. I think the mango Abdul's reactions in that article are also instructive - you don't see what you don't want to believe. Self-confirming bias, anyone?

Also, while you have used 'pure' Urdu in your examples, here's another simple point: both Hindi & Urdu or rather all dialects of Hindi including Urdu are classified as Indo-European languages. As is Persian, btw. Arabic is not an Indo-European language. Thus the point about sentence structure and forms. changing a few words here and there won't change the truth.

Jaeger Saheb,
I think the problem is that you have been drinking BR’s kool-aid for so long that you have automatically started believing everything you read here. BR sets a certain narrative about Pakistan, Pakistani and their culture for Pys-Op value and that is fine, I ‘get it’ , however if you start believing your own Psy-op, you are doing a self-goal in my opinion.

There is a common theme in many replies that the ONLY true reason, I or many other think Urdu != Hindi is because we are ashamed of our Indic roots and are trying to be more Arabs than Arabs. While I can’t speak for anyone else, let me tell you that I have no problem admitting that I am 100% convinced that my ancestor were Indian/Hindu, they were probably converted by force and I don’t have any Arab blood in my vein. Having said, I still don’t think two languages are the same. They have common roots, common words but they have evolved totally differently.

And while we are talking about it let me also ask a question that I always bothered me during my lurking days here. I see threads after threads ridiculing Pakistani for forgetting their true roots, the oppressiveness of Islam, conversion of Hindus by force during Islamic invasion etc. etc. however as a someone who is fully aware of its ‘root’ it makes me upset that when my ancestors were being converted by sword, the larger Hindustani community did not do anything about it. What was so different about my ancestor than yours that mine were converted and yours were spared? You cannot simple blame foreign Muslim invaders for this; Hinduism has a weakness because as a community they did not take care of their own lost people. It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity. In my opinion it talks more about the weakness of parent ideology more than the oppressiveness of the foreign. At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

habal · Post by **habal** » 30 Oct 2010 18:28

reality lies somewhere in between 'your view of reality' and 'BR's kool-aid psyops'. I'm sure you believe in a lot of myths & half-truths to increase your comfort-level as well.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 30 Oct 2010 18:44

They have common roots, common words but they have evolved totally differently.

Ali ji, This is correct and what many are saying and acknowledging. Urdu derives from the same branch and is evolving in a different way from contemporary Hindi. I find more difference in Bhojpuri-contemporary Hindi than possibly Urdu-Hindi. I'm sure posters better enlightened on this will clarify.

I see threads after threads ridiculing Pakistani for forgetting their true roots

Not without reason, when we see Bamiyans being destroyed, Pandits being driven out, and over the centuries Islamic aggressiveness over shrines of other religions. Not just Hindu. When people lose sense of roots and start complete identification with an alien ideology we will have problems. Like the one we are facing in Kashmir. This is an issue that has been discussed even in saner edits in Pakistani dailies. The identification with Turk, Arabs and it's pervasive quest to be as Non Indic as possible. With Islamism comes a sense of hatred. Now what is BRF to say when Pakistani school children have themselves been taught TFTA>SDRE. We just make fun of that in light vein and are acknowledging our SDRE'ness..thats the minimum we can really do.

however as a someone who is fully aware of its ‘root’ it makes me upset that when my ancestors were being converted by sword, the larger Hindustani community did not do anything about it.

India has always tried to assimmilate. It has assumed it will assimilate Islam too and continues it's attempt, whether in Kashmir or on this forum if you read Rajesh A ji's essays over the last few days on the strategic scenario threads. But it's not all about forced conversion. Over the last centuries Islam has been out breeding other religious denominations too. Pakistan itself has grown 6 fold or so in the last 60 years. Hindu's are not some monolithic religious entity. They are also composed of various schools of thought. Each however tolerates and survives with others. Today it hardly matters if a Vaishnvite marries a Shaivite and so on. Islam always remained exclusive in it's theology. Us and them. That is the source of friction. Excluvist ideologies will always be in conflict with the incluvist. While Indic thought tries to cooperate and assimilate, excluvist ideology tries to separate, differentiate.

That is what we try and expose here. That is what happened in the past. Plenty of HIndu's did try and assimilate converted Musims some like Dayanand Saraswati quite successfully before he was killed by Razakars. He did'nt use force, he studied the Koran in Arabic went to converted Muslim villages and challenged the Mullahs on the ideology. He made them feel proud of their own original roots and ideology. He started the Arya Samaj where he demolished too the Caste sytem and got about women rights etc. But indeed we are a big country and we did have our faults, weaknesses. India certainly has not been perfect in it's defenses.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 30 Oct 2010 19:09

Ali wrote:I think the problem is that you have been drinking BR’s kool-aid for so long that you have automatically started believing everything you read here. BR sets a certain narrative about Pakistan, Pakistani and their culture for Pys-Op value and that is fine, I ‘get it’ , however if you start believing your own Psy-op, you are doing a self-goal in my opinion.

It has nothing to do with doing pys-op .The pakistanis have a bad habit of looking everything from a pys-ops perspective- "I am right but he is wrong and saying the things he is saying because he is doing pys-ops on me".

Ali wrote:While I can’t speak for anyone else, let me tell you that I have no problem admitting that I am 100% convinced that my ancestor were Indian/Hindu, they were probably converted by force and I don’t have any Arab blood in my vein.Having said, I still don’t think two languages are the same. They have common roots, common words but they have evolved totally differently.

What kind of BS argument is that ? Irrespective of whether the pakis think they are 100% hindus converted forcibly to islam or ******** central asians, the fact here is that Urdu is a derivative of Hindustani which is a derivative of Sanskrit.Hindi and Urdu are not same in the same sense as the bigger brother(Hindi) in the family does not look the same as the younger brother (Urdu) and both of them wont be 100% same as the father (Hindustani) or grandfather (Sanskrit). The sons will have their own looks and identity even while retaining their father's and grandfather's genes.Why is it so difficult for Pakistanis to understand even simple things ?

Ali wrote:I see threads after threads ridiculing Pakistani for forgetting their true roots, the oppressiveness of Islam, conversion of Hindus by force during Islamic invasion etc. etc. however as a someone who is fully aware of its ‘root’ it makes me upset that when my ancestors were being converted by sword, the larger Hindustani community did not do anything about it. What was so different about my ancestor than yours that mine were converted and yours were spared? You cannot simple blame foreign Muslim invaders for this; Hinduism has a weakness because as a community they did not take care of their own lost people. It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity. In my opinion it talks more about the weakness of parent ideology more than the oppressiveness of the foreign. At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

The people who spread Islam to north west Indian subcontinent were primarily central asian invaders.And they used force and pressure to the hilt to spread their religion.The force appplied was so much that there was no option for the people other than to adopt that foreign ideology to survive.It has nothing to do with the merits or demerits of the foreign ideology as such or the weakness of parent ideology.In modern times, the same tactic was used by Mao to spread communism in China.The only weekness of parent ideology is that its adherents did not have enough military muscle to resist the invasions.

Can you explain what do you mean by "weakness of Hinduism" in a little bit more detail ?

If by "weakness of Hinduism" you meant caste system and the marxist argument that "Lower casts converted to Islam to resist upper caste domination", remember that it has nothing to do with caste system.One of the first people to convert to islam after the Gaznavids invaded afghanistan were brahmins of Kabul and not lower casts and after few centuries when the central asians invaded what is now pakistani Punjab, it was the brahmins of multan who were the first to convert and not any lower casts.When bin qasim invaded sindh,again the first people to convert to islam were the brahmins and buddhists. The lower casts were actually the ones who resisted the invaders to the hilt and refused to convert.

This myth that "Lower casts converted to islam because of caste system" is a myth propogated by marxist historians who are obssesed with looking history through the prism of class struggle in each and every thing. It is easier to debunk this marxist myth if you look at present day pakistan.The only Hindus who still surviving in pakistan facing all kinds of discrimination and still refusing to convert to islam are the "lower caste" Bhangis and not some high castes who all converted to islam long time back because of pressure and discrimination.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Oct 2010 19:10

Jaeger wrote:
vic wrote:Re Shiv

The issue is what is the distance from Chinese borders to their economic industrial areas, me think around 3000km+. So what is better 5000km on land or 15000km on sea?

vic: There are two items to consider -

1. 15,000km on sea could actually be better, because of 0 infrastructure costs, low per-unit transportation costs for bulk items, no issues of mountainous terrain, etc.

2. OTOH, that sea lane passes right by US (India) and through Malacca Straits, whereas the long and winding road across the mountains to the gates of Mordor runs all the way through (nominally) orc-held territory, which the eye of Saruman watcheth over.

My response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 15#p970515

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 30 Oct 2010 19:18

Rony ji, good examples there. And if i may add, there was also a rich landed gentry that converted promptly so that they could retain control over their lands both in Pakistan and Bangladesh. And this is what would have happened even during Bin Qasim's time in Sindh. The Chaudharys, Majumdars in BD were landed higher castes and so too the Maliks etc in Pakistan.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 30 Oct 2010 19:30

Dont know whether to put this here or on the benis thread, but pl. check out this 400% fantastic text to movie site, http://www.xtranormal.com/

To see some examples, check the web site for ombaba related stuff, or perhaps even a very staid liberal vs the conservative argument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwtG8nV ... r_embedded

The competition is to make a funny, yet cogent movie (5 min) about pakistaniyat vs the BRF argument. Pakistani perfidy and double dealing needs to be shown to the world. A 400% reward (400$) onlee awaits the best presentation, selected by BRFites (using a poll function).
Essentially, the participant types in the words, as the movie characters are ready made. I have not myself played much with the website, but we should work with the free basic version of the site.

Even though only one can win the prize, I am hoping it will generate enough you tube videos and who knows, perhaps one may even go viral.

Mods, pl. feel to delete, or move elsewhere to a separate thread. Let the games begin. Pl. submit by Dec 1, 2010.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 30 Oct 2010 20:23

Ali wrote: Having said, I still don’t think two languages are the same. They have common roots, common words but they have evolved totally differently.

What you think is your opinion. But to know the fact you will have to ask the expert and expert in this case will be a linguist. As per linguists Hindi-Urdu is the same language.

This is link I posted earlier and apparentally you did not bother to read:

http://www.unc.edu/~taj/abturdu.htm

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Oct 2010 21:30

Dipanker wrote:
Ali wrote: Having said, I still don’t think two languages are the same. They have common roots, common words but they have evolved totally differently.

What you think is your opinion. But to know the fact you will have to ask the expert and expert in this case will be a linguist. As per linguists Hindi-Urdu is the same language.

This is link I posted earlier and apparentally you did not bother to read:

http://www.unc.edu/~taj/abturdu.htm

Hey remember, you are talking to a paki, and you cannot argue with facts. Facts just come in way of a good discussion that they have learnt in their famous schools

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 30 Oct 2010 22:17

CRamS wrote:atma:

It was too long, and I got a tad lost towards the end, and hence it took me a few seconds (tube light onlee ) to get, bt its awesome . Nice and easy way to get rid of Paki roaches. As much as I can't stand Brits for their past, London is such a magnificent city, it would be better off without Paki filth.

@Atma, CRamS: Please let us not encourage these kinds of jokes. There is no "genius" or any "awesome”ness in these storied - anyone can replace pakistan with india, china, america, ethopia without any difficulty.

I hope BRF remain sane and serious place for discussion. By serious I do not mean being not funny, heck, in fact we have lots of humour on this very TSP thread, but you will appreciate all of it is relevant to TSP's specifc traits (such as "exporting terror", "extreme delusion" etc).

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Oct 2010 23:04

Ali wrote:let me tell you that I have no problem admitting that I am 100% convinced that my ancestor were Indian/Hindu, they were probably converted by force and I don’t have any Arab blood in my vein.

Ali ji, you must be commended - this realization is not common amongst Paks. You are already half way home. When you understand the true nature of Islamism and that of Dharma, that is the rest of the way.

All the darkness in the world cannot prevail over a little lighted lamp.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 23:10

The language discussion is really derailing the real purpose of this thread

Three F-16s jets reaches in Pakistan

Second consignment of 3 United States F-16 fighter jets reached in Pakistan on Saturday, and two are expected to arrive in next week. Out of 18 jets, that US promised to deliver by the end of this year, 3 fighter planes have been already given to Pakistan while 3 came today and the remaining will be handed over by the end of December. F-16 landed at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacobabad.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 23:14

Now time for some good news this was one == that we had only ourselves to blame for. Gladly we are putting an end to it for good

Flag-lowering ceremony at Wagah border to become history

The traditionally hostile flag-lowering ceremony at the Wagah border post between India and Pakistan will become a relic of the past after almost five decades from Monday as authorities from both sides have agreed to do away with the show-piece event of aggression

I mean no other country has such meaningless display of stupidity. We as civilized nation should do away with all this. Ofcourse this robs pakis of some halal entertainment but who cares

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Oct 2010 23:16

Ali, the difference you are highlighting is no more than that between two dialects of the same language. how many native urdu speakers say 'Nism-e-garami' other than urdu professors ?? I think we both know the answer !

by your logic if I substitute nomen for name I get a new language ?

so 'my nomen is Heather' is not english ?

pranav, kindly drop that line of discussion.

@all, I don't have the time to weed out all posts but kindly do not indulge in a comparative religion fest here.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 23:20

Despte warning by minister. Bakis are doing what bakis can do the best

arrested in Pak on charges of smuggling drugs to SArabia

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 23:26

Another piece of statistic

Pakistan population now 184 million

The population of Pakistan has gone up to 184 million this year from 119 million in 1990, a report said. The latest report of the State Bank of Pakistan said the country’s population has increased to 184 million this year with an annual growth rate of more than two per cent, which makes up for more than 2.5 per cent of the world's population.

According to the report, the country’s contribution towards world’s population increased from 2.25 percent in 1990 to 2.69 percent in 2010.

The News reported Friday that Pakistan has got the highest average fertility rate for 2005-10 along with the highest household size (6. and the second highest density after India amongst the six most populous countries. India has a population of about 1.2 billion people.

“This is despite the fact that various governments have tried to contain high population growth rate,” the bank report said.

The report went on to say that Pakistan is currently in the third stage of demographic transition of moderate growth where birth rate and death rate both decline and the pace of increase in population gets slow.

mayo · Post by **mayo** » 30 Oct 2010 23:27

Ali wrote:Urdu != Hindi

Wow! you know coding? I am impressed.
Are you really from Pakistan? I thought over there IT == International Terrorism

Ali wrote:At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

That is, if they don't decide to blow themselves up somewhere in between.

Someone please help me, this lala-type SDRE is cowering in the presence of a TFTA.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 30 Oct 2010 23:32

The Pakistan Paradox Unless we're prepared to deal with it as an enemy, we must make do with it as a friend

Guess the title explains US foreign policy in a nutshell

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 30 Oct 2010 23:45

Ali wrote:It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity. In my opinion it talks more about the weakness of parent ideology more than the oppressiveness of the foreign.

At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

Ali,

Surely you will have noticed that a great many followers of Islam all over the world (but not particularly in modern India) are viscerally and violently at odds with every other religion / value system that they come into contact with: Buddhism, Christianity,Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, etc. In fact, certain strands of Islam cannot stand other strands of Islam: sunni vs shia, sunni vs ahmadi, sunni vs sufi-ism, etc. Please could you enlighten the rest us as to the ideological weakness of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, non-compliant strands of Islam, etc. that cause them to be so hated.

Also, please elaborate on which "ethos and values" you are reasonably assured of transferring to your grandkids, and which ones you think we will fail to transfer to ours. Democracy, free speech, a respect for truth, equality under the law, tolerance, etc appear to be having a pretty good run in most families I know in India.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 Oct 2010 23:53

>>At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

Well, Ali, it is not often we get a Pakistani on the forum who writes English 400% better than Musharraf... a welcome diversion.

The above statement is an interesting one. It seems, from your perspective, longevity of "ethos and values" is the issue. If that is so, then the comment above would be more pertinent after another three and half odd millennia of Islam.

We and our ethos have been around for a while, as you know. Some even have noted that we are the longest continuously surviving civilisational entity. The Chinese would have been right there with us had they not gone Communist en masse earlier ... Hindus were always the majority in India, and the ethos remains despite many dire predictions of its decay and imminent destruction.

Ganesha's mouse, these days, does the double click. He's quite up to the minute. Is yours?

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 30 Oct 2010 23:53

Eklavya - excellent and logical reply !

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Oct 2010 23:55

It is uncommon to come across a thoughtful Pakistani.

Can you honestly answer, Ali, that you are not the target of some Muslim more pious, and purer, than yourself somewhere in Pakistan?

And can you comment on what this means for India?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Oct 2010 23:56

It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity.

ANybody know what is a "throat enemy"

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 30 Oct 2010 23:56

Pakistan Paindabad¬

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 30 Oct 2010 23:57

After much ridicule given to a tspian above

, I think he will be ashamed of being a pakistani and would like his grand ayatollah children to be Britainnistani or Canadistani instead of a pakistani

Anyway, if at all Sri Ali is a Pakistani then I wholeheartedly welcome him to Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan thread on BRF, we are indeed very honoured by the presence of a Pakistani.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 31 Oct 2010 00:02

Mahdi,

I loved that one, but bliss to keep it to Benis wonlee

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Oct 2010 00:08

agree with JEM, love it but a link to BENIS would have sufficed.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Oct 2010 00:10

At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

I gues the 'weakness' of Hinduism is that it does not recognise the killing of apostates as a doctrinally valid insurance of generational transfer of ethos and values. Hmmm....that would make an interesting 'thought' (at least in civilised societies) experiment. Does the Qazi recommend murder of one's children for a 'momentary lapse of reason'?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 31 Oct 2010 00:12

sanjaykumar wrote:

I gues the 'weakness' of Hinduism is that it does not recognise the killing of apostates as a doctrinally valid insurance of generational transfer of ethos and values. Hmmm....that would make an interesting 'thought' (at least in civilised societies) experiment. Does the Qazi recommend murder of one's children for?

It is about looking at humanity and all the people as one people of the world. There is no 'other'. This removes the hatred and vicious revenge seen in other religion. It is considered a weakness

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 31 Oct 2010 00:26

Airblue plane crash probe fails to take off
10 October 2010

...
“No one knows where this investigation is heading,” said a member. “There have not been any serious meetings. To be honest, we have not figured out anything about the accident.”

Investigators have already committed serious blunders with handling important evidence like body parts of the passengers, the aircraft wreckage and autopsies of the pilots that was never conducted, he said.
...

The enquiry team constituted hours after the crash has raised many eyebrows since independent expert was never included and it was headed by a Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) official who had no experience of accident investigation.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Oct 2010 02:43

It is about looking at humanity and all the people as one people of the world. There is no 'other'. This removes the hatred and vicious revenge seen in other religion. It is considered a weakness

Just a little sarcasm there, guv.

BTW Hume had most interesting views on 'polytheism'. Indians, nay civilised people, should be acquainted with his arguments.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 31 Oct 2010 03:33

Acharya wrote: It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity.

ANybody know what is a "throat enemy"

Kuffar Moulvi!

Acharya = Moulvi

Throat enemy = Gala Dushman

Hum ek dusre ko gale lagate hain (Hindi)
Hum ek dusre ka gala kat rahein hain( Pakistanese values and ethos passed down from one generation to another)
Hindi =! Pakistanese.... Period

Sorry Adminullahs! my last on the urdu, hindi debate

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Oct 2010 03:54

Ali wrote: And while we are talking about it let me also ask a question that I always bothered me during my lurking days here. I see threads after threads ridiculing Pakistani for forgetting their true roots

Well the ridicule is about spinning false propaganda and believing in it and not about forgetting about the roots (trust me we have no qualms about that).

the oppressiveness of Islam, conversion of Hindus by force during Islamic invasion etc. etc. however as a someone who is fully aware of its ‘root’ it makes me upset that when my ancestors were being converted by sword, the larger Hindustani community did not do anything about it. What was so different about my ancestor than yours that mine were converted and yours were spared? You cannot simple blame foreign Muslim invaders for this; Hinduism has a weakness because as a community they did not take care of their own lost people.

No one can or should blame the other for conversions its a matter of personal choice, the fact that people were converted by force is only a data point .

It is mind boggling that a foreign ideology can divide a group of people in such a way that they become throat enemies for eternity. In my opinion it talks more about the weakness of parent ideology more than the oppressiveness of the foreign.

Good going, lets cut the crap here.

Firstly there is no foreign ideology involved here do not try to raise straw men, for a start what do you make off the wars fought in 47, 65 and 71 they were not imposed on us by any foreign power. The use of terrorism as a tool to hurt the Indian republic was again strictly a Pakistani jugaad.

At least as a Muslim I am reasonably assured that my ethos and values would be transferred to my grandkids and their grandkids, I am not sure you can say the same about yours.

Do not worry about the folks from this side in fact you should ask your kids/grand kids if today they can go out in the outside world and claim to be a proud Pakistani, oops sorry first start with yourself.