Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

[abhishek_sharma]

Don't endorse Indian bid for UNSC seat, says Pakistan

http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/07/stories ... 271000.htm

[A_Gupta]

on the one visit where POTUS is not going on to TSP, the indian media has to drag in worthless crap pakis for commentary - truly giving them importance where none is warrented. the aam junta on the streets here does not care one rats turd for what happens - good or bad to pak.

True, I watched that show too, not sure why when India wants to be unhyphenated with Pakistan, the media turns around and hyphenates it.

On the good side, this was a virtuoso display of Pakistaniyat, and should help in innoculating the aam janata against it and undermine WKKs.

[darshhan]

Even if they do not end their actions at Wagah , atleast we should end it on our side.The theatrics while no doubt are crowd pleasing also create the perception that Pakistan can be equated with India(the BRF term for this would be equal equal).In other words we are ourselves reinforcing the hyphenation of India with Pakistan.

[abhishek_sharma]

Pakistan smarts over Obama omission

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Pakistan- ... 22926.aspx

[abhishek_sharma]

Pak UNSC hopes receive setback

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Pak-UNSC- ... 22874.aspx

[menon s]

from, the nation. written by the venerable samson of the army of the pure.
Pakistan The Rudderless state.
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ess-state/
1.“Whatever the concept, scope and objective of such limited escalations, India with its new found allies has decided to maintain a constant vigil and coercion of Pakistan over a prolonged period of time, but well below a ‘fire break point’. The obvious targets in tandem with its allies will be addressed through diverse instruments like control of rivers, economics, diplomacy, international pressure, international law, military intimidation and even insurgency. The war has already begun.”
2. A very important interest, in this context, is to disarm a nuclear Pakistan preferably through a diplomatic option or through anarchy wherein a hapless government with a defeated and discredited army is pressurised to ask for international assistance.
3.Military dispositions for any one of the scenarios are now well placed. The coming days will witness a wider cooperation amongst all neighbouring countries of Afghanistan including Iran, India and Russia. The purpose will not be to fight Pakistan, but rather to contain the insurgency within the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan and push it into Pakistan to make AfPak a reality. Once that is achieved, the US and ISAF will maintain their pivots in Afghanistan to damper the Afghan Taliban, as also launch Cold Start type operations along the Durand Line. That will be the first step of US withdrawal from Afghanistan and the next phase of the ‘long war’.

[SSridhar]

Obama's visit is really raising the hackles in Pakistan. Notwithstanding the fact that Indians TV channels should not be inviting Pakistanis on the panel while discussing Obama's visit, it has really thrown up interesting spectacle of Pakistani behaviour.

Yesterday, we had the spectacle of a former Interior Ministry secretary of Pakistan openly saying that the entire Pakistani population will become terrorist if India tries to put down that country. The panelists like Maroof Raza & Chidanand Rajghatta, not to mention Arnab Goswami, were taken aback and repeatedly asked the Pakistani to confirm what he said and he too obliged them confirming it unambiguously. At one point, Chidanand asked that guy in utter disbelief if he was really saying whether the entire 170 million Pakistanis would turn nutty and crazy and do that, to which the supremely confident Pakistani gentleman responded positively with that constant and irritating smirk on his face. It was an unbelievable spectacle.

Today, another brat Pakistani correspondent, Wajahat, made other startling revelations. When asked about Obama's answer to that young student at St. Xavier's about Pakistan, he said that it was a victory for Pakistan because Pakistan looked only eastwards for its cultural moorings, not westwards !! He said every American President stopped over in Pakistan too whenever he visited India and this is the first President who didn't do so (He forgot the circumstances at which and the means by which the last two American Presidents visited Pakistan.) and so there was some apprehension in Pakistan but Obama has dispelled that (or words to that effect).

Another channel, CNN-IBN, interviewed Asad Durrani, the former ISI chief. I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc.

[Brad Goodman]

I guess media wants to get bakis on camera for doing their vidhwa vilaap over ombaba not coming to baki lands.

[abhishek_sharma]

Naah... it is their desire to hear the views of Pakis. You know "your terrorists are their freedom fighters" kind of BS

[Cosmo_R]

^^^Rudderless State:
"which dykes and levies were manipulated at will..."

Wow! the gays are behind this as well?

@SSridhar^^^:

"I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc."

That was my initial reactions as well. But, if done right, the Rajghattas, Maharoofs and Goswamis can get these Paki clowns to make make statements that can be disseminated across the web to show how irrational the Pakistani state really is and that it has to be detoxed and the swamp drained. The pakis are their own worst enemy and they can be shown to be a danger to everyone.

[kmkraoind]

Raisani to challenge Gwadar port contract in SC

US withdrawing from Afghanistan is a double-edged sword. If US withdraws, the advantages for India, there will be three powerful entities in Afpak, namely Baluchistan, Greater Pasthuinstan and Pakjab probably loosely tied by military. Afterwards, a little-to-medium push by India enough to break Bakistan.

[Brad Goodman]

baki celebrating nature day

Pakistan doesn't have a single lion, tiger, rhino

Islamabad, Nov 7 (IANS) Tiger, lion, rhinoceros and swamp deer are the four mammal species that have disappeared from Pakistan, reveal latest wildlife data that also indicate that many birds and animals are facing extinction in that country.

'Our officials are taking great pains to collect data and constitute policies for protection of endangered species of birds and mammals. Strict laws (read shariah ) are being introduced to prevent illegal hunting across the country,' he was quoted as saying.

Zaid Kazzab Hamid was heard saying this was a clear case of kanspiracy aganist bakis and ummat who says there is no wildlife in pakhanastan. If a mad dog like himself was allowed to thrive then there is no khatraa to any other species. Hell if they did not have lions and tigers why would they name their T20 teams after them?

[sum]

That was my initial reactions as well. But, if done right, the Rajghattas, Maharoofs and Goswamis can get these Paki clowns to make make statements that can be disseminated across the web to show how irrational the Pakistani state really is and that it has to be detoxed and the swamp drained. The pakis are their own worst enemy and they can be shown to be a danger to everyone.

Sadly, only Times Now will ask the questions to expose the Pakis. The rest of DDM are disgusting in their fawning attitude towards the Pakis..

[SSridhar]

But, if done right, the Rajghattas, Maharoofs and Goswamis can get these Paki clowns to make make statements that can be disseminated across the web to show how irrational the Pakistani state really is and that it has to be detoxed and the swamp drained. The Pakis are their own worst enemy and they can be shown to be a danger to everyone.

Cosmo_R, on different occasions, Pakistanis have accepted that they have sponsored terror and brazenly added that they would continue to do so to offset the larger and more powerful India. The Americans know very clearly all the mischiefs that the Pakistanis are up to, not only against India but against themselves. Just a couple of weeks back, Musharraf admitted in that Der Spiegel interview that Pakistan sponsors terrorism as an instrument of state policy. Going as far back as to Jinnah, he told Mountbatten in Nov. 1947 that he had the power to withdraw the tribal lashkars. The world does not need any more proof to realize how dangerous Pakistan is. The more thy threaten the world, the more US aid flows in.

[Rahul M]

SS ji, could you point me to a couple of such admissions by paki officials, whether in power or not ?
TIA.

[shravan]

8 killed in U.S. drone attack in NW Pakistan

The death toll of Sunday night's U.S. drone attack in Pakistan's northwest tribal area has climbed to eight, reported local media.

Meanwhile, Taliban killed three people who were suspected to have supplied information for U.S. drone attacks in the area.

[CRamS]

I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc.

Unadulterated cowardice. As simple as that, and make no mistake about it. It is the Indian elites begging their TSP counterparts to let bygones be bygones. Its a way of trying to co-opt TSP. Its also symptomatic of "South Asia" types, the categoty to which MMS belongs.

Do you see the same elites being so nice to Bangladeshis or Nepalis or anybody else? They are nice only to the people who screw India: TSP & US. But it won't work for the simple reasons that: 1) TSP is not interested in moving on, they want the green crescent over Delhi, in other words they want to be the TFTA leaders of the subcontinent with us SDREs as vassals, and 2) TSP knows that all this bhai bhai talk is useless becasue a significant section of Indians, not visible on TV, know the real TSP.

[chetak]

I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc.

Unadulterated cowardice. As simple as that, and make no mistake about it. It is the Indian elites begging their TSP counterparts to let bygones be bygones. Its a way of trying to co-opt TSP. Its also symptomatic of "South Asia" types, the categoty to which MMS belongs.

Do you see the same elites being so nice to Bangladeshis or Nepalis or anybody else? They are nice only to the people who screw India: TSP & US. But it won't work for the simple reasons that: 1) TSP is not interested in moving on, they want the green crescent over Delhi, in other words they want to be the TFTA leaders of the subcontinent with us SDREs as vassals, and 2) TSP knows that all this bhai bhai talk is useless becasue a significant section of Indians, not visible on TV, know the real TSP.

Stockholm syndrome?


Or orders from the true owners of these DDM channels?

Either way, it borders on offensive psy ops.

[ramana]

SS ji, could you point me to a couple of such admissions by paki officials, whether in power or not ?
TIA.

Mushy did this recently and was quoted in this very thread. BB did it many times when out of power.

Their brazeness comes from knowledge that US wont do anything about it an will restrain India even if it crosses the limits. Recall run-up after Parakaram with sat photos to TSP of Indian positions.

Keeping quiet about Headley their own agent's involvement in 26/11 and the subsequen casing of PM's home and many other critical sites in India!

[CRamS]

ramana:

Partly true, but the bigger fault lies on India starting with the political & security including military leadership. Tell me a single blow India has delivered to TSP's provocations. I mean TSP is not going to be cowered by India's growing economic clout. And certianly TSP is not going to crack down on LET when it knows it is reaping dividends. TSP will back off only when its current policies hurt more than benefit them. Its amusing to see US pontificate, and India tagging along helplessly, that terrorism and extremism are hurting TSP; TSPians themselves don't seem as concerned because they know while its hurting them, its hurting India too.

[ramana]

CRS, If we want self flagellate there is no beginning nor end. All I can say is look around at India and share the optimism.

[CRamS]

CRS, If we want self flagellate there is no beginning nor end. All I can say is look around at India and share the optimism.

RamanaGaru, I do. But I also fear that in the absence of security, its hollow optimism. TSP can create chaos in a heartbeat as they showed in Mumbai. I think a strong TSPA with a thriving LET in tact in the aftermath of AfPak spells disaster for India. And I don't see any strategic plan on India's part to thwart this outcome.

[saip]

Pak-US divers recover valuable Pak Navy asset from seabed
http://thenews.com.pk/07-11-2010/National/14200.htm

Did they lose a sub?

[KLNMurthy]

Obama's visit is really raising the hackles in Pakistan. Notwithstanding the fact that Indians TV channels should not be inviting Pakistanis on the panel while discussing Obama's visit, it has really thrown up interesting spectacle of Pakistani behaviour.

Yesterday, we had the spectacle of a former Interior Ministry secretary of Pakistan openly saying that the entire Pakistani population will become terrorist if India tries to put down that country. The panelists like Maroof Raza & Chidanand Rajghatta, not to mention Arnab Goswami, were taken aback and repeatedly asked the Pakistani to confirm what he said and he too obliged them confirming it unambiguously. At one point, Chidanand asked that guy in utter disbelief if he was really saying whether the entire 170 million Pakistanis would turn nutty and crazy and do that, to which the supremely confident Pakistani gentleman responded positively with that constant and irritating smirk on his face. It was an unbelievable spectacle.

Today, another brat Pakistani correspondent, Wajahat, made other startling revelations. When asked about Obama's answer to that young student at St. Xavier's about Pakistan, he said that it was a victory for Pakistan because Pakistan looked only eastwards for its cultural moorings, not westwards !! He said every American President stopped over in Pakistan too whenever he visited India and this is the first President who didn't do so (He forgot the circumstances at which and the means by which the last two American Presidents visited Pakistan.) and so there was some apprehension in Pakistan but Obama has dispelled that (or words to that effect).

Another channel, CNN-IBN, interviewed Asad Durrani, the former ISI chief. I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc.

We need to recognize that hardly anyone in Indian media circles (with a few exceptions) has a sophisticated understanding of TSP that is taken for granted on this forum. Most of these people are intellectual duds who form an echo-chamber of a very narrow segment of Indian society that is best-known for speaking English with the "right" accent, nothing more between the ears.

[KLNMurthy]

I really do not know what is this obsessive, compulsive neurotic disorder that has seized our news channels regarding inviting Pakistanis while discussing India. It is so annoying to see them being treated as equals, allowing them to peddle their terrorism and justify it, derail discussions etc.

Unadulterated cowardice. As simple as that, and make no mistake about it. It is the Indian elites begging their TSP counterparts to let bygones be bygones. Its a way of trying to co-opt TSP. Its also symptomatic of "South Asia" types, the categoty to which MMS belongs.

Do you see the same elites being so nice to Bangladeshis or Nepalis or anybody else? They are nice only to the people who screw India: TSP & US. But it won't work for the simple reasons that: 1) TSP is not interested in moving on, they want the green crescent over Delhi, in other words they want to be the TFTA leaders of the subcontinent with us SDREs as vassals, and 2) TSP knows that all this bhai bhai talk is useless becasue a significant section of Indians, not visible on TV, know the real TSP.

This may be OT, but I am not sure where it belongs:

We should also see the DDM behavior as a continuation of centuries of survival mentality of Indics, who negotiated--through pleading, flattery etc.--for a kinder, gentler level of oppression from the conqueror (so-called stockholm syndrome). Yes, there has been an unbroken thread of independence and resistance, but that is not the thread from which the current DDM memes claim their intellectual and psychohistorical legacy.

[svinayak]

We should also see the DDM behavior as a continuation of centuries of survival mentality of Indics, who negotiated--through pleading, flattery etc.--for a kinder, gentler level of oppression from the conqueror (so-called stockholm syndrome). Yes, there has been an unbroken thread of independence and resistance, but that is not the thread from which the current DDM memes claim their intellectual and psychohistorical legacy.

DDMs are not Indian owned. Patriotic channels will never produce these kind of programs with all these low lifes

DDM is product of US sociology experiments from the 1970s

[Reddy]

DDM is product of US sociology experiments from the 1970s

Very interesting, can you please explain? If it is OT, appreciate if explanation is posted in the appropriate thread.

Thanks

[nachiket]

We need to recognize that hardly anyone in Indian media circles (with a few exceptions) has a sophisticated understanding of TSP that is taken for granted on this forum. Most of these people are intellectual duds who form an echo-chamber of a very narrow segment of Indian society that is best-known for speaking English with the "right" accent, nothing more between the ears.

WKKs have never been described better than that.!

[svinayak]

DDM is product of US sociology experiments from the 1970s

Very interesting, can you please explain? If it is OT, appreciate if explanation is posted in the appropriate thread.

Thanks

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5055673/MEDIA-IN-INDIA

The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters by Frances Stonor Saunders This book describes all the dirty tricks used by the CIA and other agencies all over the
world to change countries and to bring chaos in those countries. It is well known that the
CIA funded right-wing intellectuals after World War II; fewer know that it also courted
individuals from the center and the left in an effort to turn the intelligentsia away from
communism and toward an acceptance of "the American way." Frances Stonor Saunders
sifts through the history of the covert Congress for Cultural Freedom in The Cultural
Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters. The book centers on the career of
Michael Josselson, the principal intellectual figure in the operation, and his eventual
betrayal by people who scapegoat him. Sanders demonstrates that, in the early days, the
Office of Strategic Services (OSS) and the emergent CIA were less dominated by the far
right than they later became (including the Christian right), and that the idea of helping
out progressive moderates--rather than being Machiavellian--actually appealed to the
men at the top.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/937050/Who-Ow ... a-in-India

[SSridhar]

SS ji, could you point me to a couple of such admissions by paki officials, whether in power or not ?
TIA.

Rahul, there are numerous instances.
see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

Yesterday, in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.

[shiv]

SS ji, could you point me to a couple of such admissions by paki officials, whether in power or not ?
TIA.

Rahul, there are numerous instances.

Sridhar - can you find a way of putting this post of yours as part of the first post in every Pakisturd thread.

[arun]

X Posted from the Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism thread:

Kashmiri militant groups still recruiting in Pakistan

[CRamS]

SSridhar:

And lets not forget that US even knows and brazenly admitted TSP's use of LET, and disgustingly even justifies it by bringing in Kashmir, "threat from India" and other crap.

[SSridhar]

Sridhar - can you find a way of putting this post of yours as part of the first post in every Pakisturd thread.

Shiv, I will blog this sooner than later, along with other admissions.

[CRamS]

X Posted from the Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism thread:

Kashmiri militant groups still recruiting in Pakistan

This is TSP's strategy. I don't see the "core issue" resolved without one or some combination of the following 3 scenarios playing out:

1) A showdown between India & TSP (after a period of lull, TSP will up the ante to such an extent that India will have to respond)
2) Some internal upheavel in TSP leading to weakening of TSPA
3) Some internal upheavel in India leading to weakening of the Indian state

[SSridhar]

SSridhar:

And lets not forget that US even knows and brazenly admitted TSP's use of LET, and disgustingly even justifies it by bringing in Kashmir, "threat from India" and other crap.

CRamS, absolutely. Forget about terror targetting India from TSP. The US also knows the depths of deceit and mendacity to which TSP plumbs that have led to hundreds of US & NATO servicemen being killed in Afghanistan. Yet, one sees only more generosity from them.

[symontk]

Pak-US divers recover valuable Pak Navy asset from seabed
http://thenews.com.pk/07-11-2010/National/14200.htm

Did they lose a sub?

It could be even an evidence for 26/11 or 92 Mumbai blasts being removed. In both cases Pak navy was invloved

JMT, there is nothing to laugh about. Pakis are smart, you need to give the credit where its due. They are taking help of a country's navy whose citizens died because of their terrorist activities

[CRamS]

SSridhar:

Help me on this. We all know that USA's India containment policy is alive & kicking. But prima facie, US does make a good case, accepted universally including in India, that US needs TSP in AfPak, and without TSP's "help", US cannot secure Afganisthan. And in securing TSP's help, US has to adopt a fine balancing line between India & TSP. I challenge this. Whenever US does a "poor me", I can't do this, this or that, because of some bogus constraint, when it brazenly does whatever it wants to in other instances, leads me to be suspiscous.

Thus, it may be a bit too hyperbolic for Arnab Goswami or somebdy else in the media to challenge this during Obama's visit, but neverthless, if you think there is merit in questioning this hypothesis, shouldn't the likes of Goswami, Maroof etc start deliberating about this at some point? I mean one doesn't have to come across as a comical Zahid Hamid or Ahmed Qureshi type conspiratorial nut cases, but one can reasonably highlight a heretical counterpoint. After all, both Amritraj and Mullen have told TSP that if they don't cooperate, US will take matters into their own hands. If so, why is TSP's help so crucial that US cannot do without? And as you pointed out, US always comes up with some helpless BS in having to go soft on TSP, and most often it is India that is the sacrificial goat.

[saip]

JMT, there is nothing to laugh about. Pakis are smart, you need to give the credit where its due. They are taking help of a country's navy whose citizens died because of their terrorist activities

I very much doubt that. If they are trying to suppress the evidence, the last people they would ask would be US. I can understand them asking China.

[krithivas]

http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/08/stories ... 181800.htm

Islamabad: Pakistan's paramilitary border force has took an about turn on its decision to tone down the flag-lowering ceremony at the Wagah frontier post just a week after saying that it would do away with aggressive gestures and orchestrated boot stomping that form part of the event.

Pakistan Rangers will continue their daily parade as part of the flag-lowering and hoisting ceremonies at Wagah in the traditional “enthusiastic style” without any change, except the revival of the formal handshake between personnel of Pakistan and India.

Officials have said no change has been introduced in the style of the parade and that apprehensions expressed by India's Border Security Force about “hostile gestures” by the Pakistan Rangers are baseless.

A statement issued by the Pakistan Rangers said the force was making its position clear in response to Indian “propaganda” about the BSF persuading its Pakistani counterpart to tone down “hostile” gestures.

Pakistan Rangers official Major General Muhammad Yaqoob Khan said the drill at Wagah would continue in its “traditional way.”

Question - So what happens if we leave the Paki-monkeys to jump up and down and stomp their way to death, while BSF calmly look at the Paki-monkeys? Is there a contractual obligation (which by the way means nothing for Paki-monkeys anyway) that requires India to jump-up-and-down too?

Pakis derive delight in turning down sane Indian requests, and I hope they don't get extra pleasure in making Indians do what they dont want to (which is what they are wanting to accomplish). Gently walk away BSF ... please.

R. Krithivas