J & K news and discussion
Re: J & K news and discussion
Geelani has articulated the objective of the Ummah. The previous report 'JUH Brainstorming' put forth the views of IM.
It seems taqiya is a way of life in dar al harb. If one sees through the taqiya in 'JUH Brainstorming', the convergence of mission statement of the Ummah and IM is obvious.
It seems taqiya is a way of life in dar al harb. If one sees through the taqiya in 'JUH Brainstorming', the convergence of mission statement of the Ummah and IM is obvious.
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Re: J & K news and discussion
Geelani has clearly stated the underlying objective and has not done a taqyia in hiding it. He has clearly expressed that the ultimate desire is to achieve a so-called Islamic state, which has never ever really been clearly defined as afars atretment of non-Muslims are concerned in any historical so-called implementation.
This obfuscation about the nature of the islamic state - which Geelani also attempts in trying to lull the reasonable anxieties from the non-Muslim side which are in turn based on solid historical experience as well as greater modern understanding of the core theological doctrines in Islam - is the real taqyia.
Another taqyia is ofcourse to attract the support and voice of those from the non-Muslim side who for various reasons are secretly pro-Islam, and provide them excuses to confuse the non-Muslim side. anyone from the non-Muslim origin who supports and lends sympathy to the ideas of an Islamic state or allow aspects of Islamic law as part of a state structure - is almost surely a secret Islamophile. More than the Geelani's it is these people from the "other" side - in politics, in parties, in academics, and social-activism - who should be closely watched and gradually pressurized to come out into the open with their sympathies. At the moment the entire state machinery is geared to upholding such people, which is a kind of indirect jazyia like extraction of finance from the non-muslim to sponsor and promote an Islamic state - through the modern device of taxation provided by the non-Muslim majority but disposed off by the state in favour of Islamism - at least in J&K (which gets greater share of the national surplus than any other state without contributing almost anything).
So those elements in the state-machinery who are responsible for this - are the real culprits, and compared to them Geelani is a small fry. Geelani's are used by the secret sympathizers to drive their own hidden or psychologically deviant agenda. I would rather have a thousand such loud-mouth Geelanis than the shadowy "great leaders" running political parties running governments - who never give concrete statements about their visions and policies or remain silent on key issues facing the nation.
This obfuscation about the nature of the islamic state - which Geelani also attempts in trying to lull the reasonable anxieties from the non-Muslim side which are in turn based on solid historical experience as well as greater modern understanding of the core theological doctrines in Islam - is the real taqyia.
Another taqyia is ofcourse to attract the support and voice of those from the non-Muslim side who for various reasons are secretly pro-Islam, and provide them excuses to confuse the non-Muslim side. anyone from the non-Muslim origin who supports and lends sympathy to the ideas of an Islamic state or allow aspects of Islamic law as part of a state structure - is almost surely a secret Islamophile. More than the Geelani's it is these people from the "other" side - in politics, in parties, in academics, and social-activism - who should be closely watched and gradually pressurized to come out into the open with their sympathies. At the moment the entire state machinery is geared to upholding such people, which is a kind of indirect jazyia like extraction of finance from the non-muslim to sponsor and promote an Islamic state - through the modern device of taxation provided by the non-Muslim majority but disposed off by the state in favour of Islamism - at least in J&K (which gets greater share of the national surplus than any other state without contributing almost anything).
So those elements in the state-machinery who are responsible for this - are the real culprits, and compared to them Geelani is a small fry. Geelani's are used by the secret sympathizers to drive their own hidden or psychologically deviant agenda. I would rather have a thousand such loud-mouth Geelanis than the shadowy "great leaders" running political parties running governments - who never give concrete statements about their visions and policies or remain silent on key issues facing the nation.
Re: J & K news and discussion
http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/article871100.ece
“On Friday evening unidentified gunmen came to our village and started knocking on the doors of Sikh families. As locals raised an alarm they left the place leaving a private vehicle behind,” said president, Gurudwara Prabhandak Committee, Hutmura, Sardar Niranjan Singh.
Re: J & K news and discussion
Has a step-by-step in-depth analysis of the UN Resolution (and its implications) ever been conducted here at BRF? My thesis is that the Chinese and the pakis will never accept a plebiscite, if it ever comes to that (viz., India calling the paki bluff). They (the pakis and their northern friends) have a lot to lose.
Re: J & K news and discussion
double post...........
Last edited by ajit_tr on 08 Nov 2010 10:20, edited 1 time in total.
Re: J & K news and discussion
thayilv wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/article871100.ece
“On Friday evening unidentified gunmen came to our village and started knocking on the doors of Sikh families. As locals raised an alarm they left the place leaving a private vehicle behind,” said president, Gurudwara Prabhandak Committee, Hutmura, Sardar Niranjan Singh.


Re: J & K news and discussion
And now Geelani is using this to express his newfound "solidarity with sikhs"
Give justice to (1984) anti-Sikh riot victims: Geelani
Give justice to (1984) anti-Sikh riot victims: Geelani
Re: J & K news and discussion
No, his vocal chords are vibrating to the remote control siganls from the ISI headquarters in Rawilpindi.ajit_tr wrote:And now Geelani is using this to express his newfound "solidarity with sikhs"
Give justice to (1984) anti-Sikh riot victims: Geelani
Re: J & K news and discussion
^^^CRS,
Nice example. Someone ought to ask him about the possibility of the return of the displaced Kashmiri Hindus. Will they have the freedom of religion and will they be forced to pay Jazia if they chose to return.
Nice example. Someone ought to ask him about the possibility of the return of the displaced Kashmiri Hindus. Will they have the freedom of religion and will they be forced to pay Jazia if they chose to return.
Re: J & K news and discussion
Very interesting. Seculars (fake or not) have to be sidelined if Geelani's vision is ever going to be a reality. For that Hindus and Muslims have to deal directly with each other. The Sikh riots are used by Hindus to attack seculars.CRamS wrote:No, his vocal chords are vibrating to the remote control siganls from the ISI headquarters in Rawilpindi.ajit_tr wrote:And now Geelani is using this to express his newfound "solidarity with sikhs"
Give justice to (1984) anti-Sikh riot victims: Geelani
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Re: J & K news and discussion
A telugu news channel ETv2 yesterday said that certain NGOs came out protesting against Geelani's bandh call on OBs visit. The report says that several hundreds (thousands?) came to lal-chowk protesting against freequent bandh calls; blaming them to be a disturbance to JK peace.
A good start IMO if that NGO is nationalistic.
Any local info?
A good start IMO if that NGO is nationalistic.
Any local info?
Re: J & K news and discussion
^^
This was in news in HT too. These were a few hundered villegers from Ganderbal area ( presumely NC supportes I guess) .
The "peaceful" stone pelters "peacefully" pelted them with stones forcing them to leave.
This was in news in HT too. These were a few hundered villegers from Ganderbal area ( presumely NC supportes I guess) .
The "peaceful" stone pelters "peacefully" pelted them with stones forcing them to leave.
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Re: J & K news and discussion
US should facilitate peace process between India and Pakistan: Omar Abdullah
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 889289.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 889289.cms
Re: J & K news and discussion
Didnt wait too long for this turd to talk of US role. I told you long ago Rahul Baba is his own chai party.
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Re: J & K news and discussion
Let us see if the interlocutors retain their employment after the Messiah leaves Delhi.
I do not understand why a decent person like PC supports more autonomy for J&K.
I do not understand why a decent person like PC supports more autonomy for J&K.
Re: J & K news and discussion
Gee.
Now that Obama has mentioned the K word during the press conf., our familiar rats are in splittist heaven.
"We stand vindicated...we are proven right. We told you that it would be all worth it -- 112 innocent youths were sacrificed this summer, and now all their sacrifices have borne fruit. Jai Ho to the K word" is what the splittists are joyfully saying today in Srinagar.
SEPARATISTS JUBILANT
http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov ... ant-37.asp
Geelani says victory, Malik hails Obama
http://risingkashmir.com/news/geelani-s ... -3325.aspx
Now that Obama has mentioned the K word during the press conf., our familiar rats are in splittist heaven.
"We stand vindicated...we are proven right. We told you that it would be all worth it -- 112 innocent youths were sacrificed this summer, and now all their sacrifices have borne fruit. Jai Ho to the K word" is what the splittists are joyfully saying today in Srinagar.
SEPARATISTS JUBILANT
http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov ... ant-37.asp
Geelani says victory, Malik hails Obama
http://risingkashmir.com/news/geelani-s ... -3325.aspx
Re: J & K news and discussion
A coalition has formed - very informal - consisting of K people, Khalistan people, people with grevience and others which has supported MMS from outside and have a deal with Ombaba group to get some concession from the Indian govt.abhishek_sharma wrote:Let us see if the interlocutors retain their employment after the Messiah leaves Delhi.
I do not understand why a decent person like PC supports more autonomy for J&K.
This group has few powerful backers - rich Indians NRI etc.
Re: J & K news and discussion
And they will get nothing . No politician in India can afford to do what these teeming traitors thirst for. I have no idea why these folks ignore thet fact that India will fight to the last Sunni Kashmirirat.
Re: J & K news and discussion
We need to expose this group.Prem wrote:And they will get nothing . No politician in India can afford to do what these teeming traitors thirst for. I have no idea why these folks ignore thet fact that India will fight to the last Sunni Kashmirirat.
Are you familiar with some of these people
Re: J & K news and discussion
You can see them adorning the magazine Silconeer!
Most of the shindigs reported in that rag are of these people.
Most of the shindigs reported in that rag are of these people.
Re: J & K news and discussion
These yahoos were big in 80s but no moore . They could not succeed then and they wont now. What if they are being used by Babus of GOI ? All i can say is that there is new breed of silent game changer Nationalistic Babus who are much ahead of these "Me Poak Too' folks. Even new big players in the Valley dont pay any attentiion to these old oxes. With all of their smartness, they dont or wont know / acknowledge that India has changed.ramana wrote:You can see them adorning the magazine Silconeer!
Most of the shindigs reported in that rag are of these people.
Re: J & K news and discussion
Why are NRI indian mags so WKK and PSec. cabal dominated? Siliconeer, India Abroad etc? Relative got some India Abroad rag after Ayodhya verdict, it makes Outlook, Chindu etc look fair and balanced.
Re: J & K news and discussion
Excerpt from Shafi of the Yawn,relating to an expulsion of a US professor who was a "regular visitor to J&K".The GOI must've had v. good reason to expel him.However,the idea expressed below-firming up the LOC as international border while allowing cross border movement for Kashmiris has some merit.
Last week, just days before the Obama visit, the Indian government thumbed its nose at the international community by ordering the deportation of an American scholar who has been a regular visitor to Kashmir. Professor Richard Shapiro, who was denied entry by the immigration authorities in New Delhi, is the head of the Department of Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. He is also the life partner of Angana Chatterji, who is the Co-convener of the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir.
Reports say since July 2006, Prof Shapiro regularly travelled to Kashmir, and interacted with various human rights defenders, scholars, youth, to bear witness and learn from their experiences. He has evidently been conscientious in not violating the conditions of his tourist visa. He also helped form a Jewish-Muslim Friendship Circle. Kashmir was until 1990 a beautiful mosaic of syncretic culture under the overarching influence of Sufi Islam. A hard-line Islam blowing in from Pakistan together with Kashmir’s Indian-run torture chambers are pushing the region towards an as yet untested brand of extremism. Mr Riedel knows what that implies for the region all the way to Afghanistan and beyond.
Reports say since July 2006, Prof Shapiro regularly travelled to Kashmir, and interacted with various human rights defenders, scholars, youth, to bear witness and learn from their experiences. He has evidently been conscientious in not violating the conditions of his tourist visa. He also helped form a Jewish-Muslim Friendship Circle. Kashmir was until 1990 a beautiful mosaic of syncretic culture under the overarching influence of Sufi Islam. A hard-line Islam blowing in from Pakistan together with Kashmir’s Indian-run torture chambers are pushing the region towards an as yet untested brand of extremism. Mr Riedel knows what that implies for the region all the way to Afghanistan and beyond.
“There is a solution, however, to the problem,” he wrote recently. “The cease-fire line that divides Kashmir between India and Pakistan, the Line of Control, would become the agreed international border between the two countries. At the same time, it would become a permeable border for Kashmiris, who could move back and forth easily. Both countries’ currencies would be valid on both sides of the line. The two parts of Kashmir, Pakistani Azad Kashmir and Indian Kashmir and Jammu, would handle local issues like tourism, sports, and the environment in joint shared institutions along the lines of how Ireland and Ulster work together now on all Northern Ireland issues.”
His ideas may find favour with the Indian establishment or they may not. Pakistan supported it once, but does it hold the same views today? ..
Re: J & K news and discussion
Veil off ISI Valley cell, dossier ready - http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101108/j ... 151169.jsp
In April this year, the ISI got scanned copies of census forms so that it could use fake census forms to influence population figures in Kashmir, the sources said.
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Re: J & K news and discussion
Philip wrote:Excerpt from Shafi of the Yawn,relating to an expulsion of a US professor who was a "regular visitor to J&K".The GOI must've had v. good reason to expel him.However,the idea expressed below-firming up the LOC as international border while allowing cross border movement for Kashmiris has some merit.
I wonder if you'd said the same thing if your good friend the Head Constable had proposed the same.

BTW I personally think this idea is fraught with dangers. And besides if we are to do that then people of Jammu and Ladakh need to be consulted. Maybe they don't want any part of this plan? And besides the moment you let the Pakis to move into Kashmir freely how do you propose to stop them from moving from on to the rest of India. Apart from real terror threats what is more worrisome is that as India pulls away from the Pakis there will be a massive efforts at economic migration from the Puke land and this would be a free way in.
The only way that could be stopped is if we have checkpoints coming out of Kashmir, which in effect means restricting the movement of bonafide Indians within the country.
Also this idea of free use of both currencies is a disaster. Just look at the relative values of the two currencies. And again another way to push in fake Indian currency.
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Re: J & K news and discussion
Misguided opinion
Thinking the unthinkable
This was an opinion which was published a month ago in "The Hindu," one of India's most venerated and respected newspaper. This is full of half baked ideas and reasoning.
I agree that we have come to such a pass in Kashmir due to bad governance, high-handedness. But hey these issues affect other Indians also. I have yet to come across an Indian compatriot who did not complain of high-handedness or corruptness or misrule by our ruling class. I fail to see what is so special about the high-handedness or bad governance which the normal kashmirs face that we normal indians also do. In fact in certain cases it is worse. If you want to know, please ask the victims of post-Godhra massacre or the Sikh pogrom in 1984-85 or the tribals whose land, resources and rights are taken away without due compensation.
Moreover throwing the bucket along with the crying baby out of the window, just because the baby is crying is not a proper solution.
Moreover what exactly is the link between "modern standards of governance" and Kashmir.
India needs to improve its governance. This is applicable to the entire nation. I certainly hope that the author is not saying that unless we leave kashmir, we will not be able to improve our governance standards.
The 1962 war was not fought because of some covert activities of CIA from Indian bases. It was fought because of differences of border alignment. China did not respect MacMohan Line, while we did. Period.
Offcourse if the author believes that being bigger and better automatically gives one the authority to lord over or to be right, then I have 6 words for him "Might does not equate to Right".
This points out from where the author is coming off. He is a covert or overt leftist. The same leftist, who did not support their own country in 1962 and sought to say that this is a class struggle and what not crap. Those who still worship or preach what China is doing. They seem to harbor a belief that China is so beautiful and it is doing things which are simply prefect and good.
We have been asking for precisely this thing since 1947. We could not enforce this in 1962 nor in 1971.
Thinking the unthinkable
This was an opinion which was published a month ago in "The Hindu," one of India's most venerated and respected newspaper. This is full of half baked ideas and reasoning.
Yes India needs Kashmir. The fact that India does not control Northern Areas/Gilgit/Balistan is one of the reason that we are facing the prospectus of a two front war. It is also one of the reason that we are cut off from Afghanistan are dependent on a fickle Iranian polity for access to Central Asia & Afghanistan. Further with Kashmir gone there will not be any way to practically defend jammu/leh and consequently the northern-western states of Haryana, Himachal, Punjab, etc. So Kashmir is important to India. And really if resources were the only criteria on which a province is to be held then we can let go of may other provinces also.The first question to ask is, do Indians need Kashmir? By Indians, we mean the ordinary aam-janta of the poor, and the struggling middle classes. The answer clearly is a resounding ‘No'! There are no ‘resources' of any kind from Kashmir, the supply of which is crucial for our well-being.
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If Indian troops are out of Kashmir, would it jeopardise the security of Indians? Not really.
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I certainly hope that the author is saying this after he has talked to ALL kashmirs, including the displaced pandits. If he has, I would like to ascertain how many of them were influenced by guns and how many of them would change their mind if the gun, i.e. terrorist are taken away from the equation.because the people there[Kashmir] do not consider themselves ‘Indians,' and wish all Indians to go to the devil, perhaps unjustly, but that is the end result of poor governance, high-handedness, cruelty, and a bankrupt diplomatic policy.
I agree that we have come to such a pass in Kashmir due to bad governance, high-handedness. But hey these issues affect other Indians also. I have yet to come across an Indian compatriot who did not complain of high-handedness or corruptness or misrule by our ruling class. I fail to see what is so special about the high-handedness or bad governance which the normal kashmirs face that we normal indians also do. In fact in certain cases it is worse. If you want to know, please ask the victims of post-Godhra massacre or the Sikh pogrom in 1984-85 or the tribals whose land, resources and rights are taken away without due compensation.
Moreover throwing the bucket along with the crying baby out of the window, just because the baby is crying is not a proper solution.
It can be worse, the Hindus can demand that muslims need not stay in India. After all there is a strong under current among the hindus that in partition, we should have insisted that ALL the muslims leave India for Pakistan. So unless the author is prepared to assume responsibility for another round of ethnic cleansing, this time on a massive scale, he should not put up half baked ideas.Could Indian withdrawal from Kashmir initiate the Dulles nightmare of a domino effect, with all Indian Muslims rising up as one man to demand more partitions?
Seriously has the author done a cost-benefit analysis on how much GoI is spending on Kashmir? He does not quote any figures. Kashmir is not what Afghanistan was to the Soviets. At the peak of insurgency in Kashmir 1989-99, we grew at 6%. In 2000-2009 period we grew at a healthy 8-9%. The insurgency in Kashmir has not stopped India's economic growth and development and nor will it be able to.Hanging on to the great economic resource drain of Kashmir will only worsen the situation. The government must cauterise the Kashmir wound, tighten military spending, and strictly prevent any more human rights abuses, to regain if possible, modern standards of governance.
Moreover what exactly is the link between "modern standards of governance" and Kashmir.
India needs to improve its governance. This is applicable to the entire nation. I certainly hope that the author is not saying that unless we leave kashmir, we will not be able to improve our governance standards.
Chinese are not the leaders of Asia, unless you confuse East asia with the whole of Asia. Oh I forgot even now the Chinese are not rulers of the entire East Asia. Otherwise Taiwan would now have been a SAR, or worse a province of China. And Seriously "Unreal and bloated sense of self-importance"? Does this guy actually live in India? Or is he tying this from some alien planet.Let us ask another hard question. What will be lost along with Kashmir? An unreal and bloated sense of self-importance.
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Indians are not the leaders of Asia — the Chinese are.
Oh this is the best part. This shows the ignorance of the author completely. He has not studied our history. In the years 1948-1959, some 12 odd years, we concentrated only on development at the expense of everything else. We saw the result in 1962. I will not consider post 1959, because post 1959 our leaders did attempt to eliminate our serious deficiencies in defense.India should use its scarce resources where they are most needed, to help people raise themselves out of poverty.
The author is ignorant not only of our history but of our culture also. We have always given refuge to people in need. Certain sections of Tibetan society are not comfortable with the Chinese overlord ship of Tibet. We have absolutely every reason to give them support. And pray tell me one reason why? I certainly hope that the reason is not, because it causes offense to China.And India should not play dirty pool with China, and harbour Tibetan governments-in-exile.
Let it not be forgotten that one of the causes of the India-China border war of 1962 was the covert activities of the CIA from Indian bases.
The 1962 war was not fought because of some covert activities of CIA from Indian bases. It was fought because of differences of border alignment. China did not respect MacMohan Line, while we did. Period.
Let us take one step further, we can start paying a tax to the Chinese. Have the Chinese president declared as the Indian president, start learning Chinese and accept Chinese control over everything. China is not bigger and better. It is state which is held together by the autocratic control of CCP and maintained by PLA.India should mend its fences pronto with China, and accept the glaring fact that they are bigger, and better — just as it wants Pakistan to acknowledge its leadership.
Offcourse if the author believes that being bigger and better automatically gives one the authority to lord over or to be right, then I have 6 words for him "Might does not equate to Right".
Kashmir is the not cause of bad blood between India and Pakistan. It is a symptom. If there was no Kashmir, the Pakis would invent one. Their end aim is the disembowelment of India.On the contrary, it might catastrophically weaken its real enemy, and the real enemy of the people of Pakistan, and dismantle its offensive structures.
America has maintained the structure? Just a few paragraphs ago you were saying, "The Pakistani people have been held in thrall by a small corrupt military dictatorship". So please clarify who is maintaining what over here. And if America has maintained the structure, then it has paid the cost of it also. 9-11. And the future attack will most probably come from Pakistan only. If Pakistan became the conduit for Islamic terrorism, it is not because America forced it to, rather it is because it wanted to. It willingly, some would say eagerly, co opted the radical Islamic thought.For the last 50 years or so America, for its own Byzantine reasons, has maintained this whole awful structure which oppresses the people of Pakistan and suppresses the development trends
This points out from where the author is coming off. He is a covert or overt leftist. The same leftist, who did not support their own country in 1962 and sought to say that this is a class struggle and what not crap. Those who still worship or preach what China is doing. They seem to harbor a belief that China is so beautiful and it is doing things which are simply prefect and good.
Then they will raise water issue. After that the bogey of liberating the entire subcontinent from the so-called hindu/bania/brahmin yoke. One reality check. Pakistan Army did not loose its currency after handing over East Pakistan to us on a platter. If the Pakis or to be more precise its army had handled its East Pakistan problem more judiciously, we would never have seen an independent Bangladesh. This is a state which is built on hate on the concept of separation. If not on some racist ideals, which are eerily similar to the nazi aryan belief.The Pakistan military has propped up its power over people by rattling the bogey of Indian threat. If Indians end the Kashmir siege unilaterally, the Pakistani military will lose currency with their oppressed people.
Again the lack of history shines through. Does Danzig ring a bell. The various enclaves in Shanghai ring a bell? And oh dont forget the invitation of the nawab of bengal to a company known as East India Company to collect taxes and trade, just because they were more efficient then the so called natives. Once we start involving outsiders into our issues, then we have to put ourselves at their mercy. And outsiders have their own axe to grind.let India make the security of the Valley an international issue which requires international guarantees from everyone else, the U.S. and NATO, China, Pakistan, Russia, and all other nearby neighbors.
What good will that do against the Chinese nukes? How will that help us against the nuclear armed American Submarines and aircraft carriers. Forgotten how the 1971 war was put to an end ?India could insist that South Asia should be made a nuclear weapons-free zone, retaining crushing military superiority.
Let it [India] ask for Pakistan-occupied Kashmir to be simultaneously liberated,



And off course absolve all the blame off the Pakistan and the imperialist Britishers. Dont blame the Chinese for occupying Kashmiri Territory. Nah. They are blameless. Everything is the fault of Nehru. Everything.India must be proactive in demanding an immediate international settlement of a problem created by Nehru.
Re: J & K news and discussion
What is the obsession of GoI with dossiers?Pranav wrote:Veil off ISI Valley cell, dossier ready - http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101108/j ... 151169.jsp

First they try to bury Pak under a heap of dossiers and when Pak threatens to retaliate with dossiers of its own, we now switch to sending Dossiers to Ombaba?
What is this business of making dossiers and crying in front of the world about big, bad Pak instead of giving a few sound thappads to Pak ( with our own counter ops)?
Re: J & K news and discussion
al guardian has a pro-india article today in opeds
nice to see lots of indians commenting - slamming the usual jihadi morons
nice to see lots of indians commenting - slamming the usual jihadi morons
Re: J & K news and discussion
Link.. couldnt find it?Lalmohan wrote:al guardian has a pro-india article today in opeds
nice to see lots of indians commenting - slamming the usual jihadi morons
Re: J & K news and discussion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... rack-obama
Kashmir a symptom, America part of the problem
Kashmir a symptom, America part of the problem
The continual anti-India aggression of the Pakistan army and the Inter-Service Intelligence agency (ISI) is fuelled not so much by their love for Kashmir, as by their craving for revenge for defeat in the war of 1971 – which led to the secession of Bengali-speaking East Pakistan as the independent nation of Bangladesh, with India's help. So, a solution to Kashmir – which seems a distant possibility as of now – will make little difference in tension between India and Pakistan. Not even if the solution were to involve New Delhi ceding control of Indian-administered Kashmir to Islamabad – an outcome next to impossible.
President Obama presumably thinks that Washington's relations with Islamabad will enable him to help resolve tensions. In fact, US military and financial aid to Islamabad has, if anything, only emboldened the Pakistan army to challenge India's security forces.Above all, it is Pakistan's military and the ISI – and not the civilian government – that have been the force behind Pakistan's foreign policy towards India. Apart from avenging the 1971 war, the military and intelligence establishments need to project India as a threat in order to maintain their hegemony even after the formal end of military rule in 2008. This explains the assistance of Pakistani intelligence for terror groups, such as Lashkar e Taiba, that have carried out attacks in India. An army's importance is proportional to the level of threat from an "enemy": a destabilised and militarised India suits that agenda.
This also explains why terrorist attacks in India often follow major peace initiatives between the two countries' governments. For example, when former Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee began peace efforts and cross-border trade with Pakistan in 1999, the then army chief, General Pervez Musharraf, was naturally not pleased with it. He is believed to have planned the May-July 1999 war in Kargil, in Indian-administered Kashmir, which was triggered by the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Islamist militants over the Indian side of the border
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Re: J & K news and discussion
Good article save for one paragraph were the author loses it.Prem wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... rack-obama
Kashmir a symptom, America part of the problem
The continual anti-India aggression of the Pakistan army and the Inter-Service Intelligence agency (ISI) is fuelled not so much by their love for Kashmir, as by their craving for revenge for defeat in the war of 1971 – which led to the secession of Bengali-speaking East Pakistan as the independent nation of Bangladesh, with India's help. So, a solution to Kashmir – which seems a distant possibility as of now – will make little difference in tension between India and Pakistan. Not even if the solution were to involve New Delhi ceding control of Indian-administered Kashmir to Islamabad – an outcome next to impossible.
President Obama presumably thinks that Washington's relations with Islamabad will enable him to help resolve tensions. In fact, US military and financial aid to Islamabad has, if anything, only emboldened the Pakistan army to challenge India's security forces.Above all, it is Pakistan's military and the ISI – and not the civilian government – that have been the force behind Pakistan's foreign policy towards India. Apart from avenging the 1971 war, the military and intelligence establishments need to project India as a threat in order to maintain their hegemony even after the formal end of military rule in 2008. This explains the assistance of Pakistani intelligence for terror groups, such as Lashkar e Taiba, that have carried out attacks in India. An army's importance is proportional to the level of threat from an "enemy": a destabilised and militarised India suits that agenda.
This also explains why terrorist attacks in India often follow major peace initiatives between the two countries' governments. For example, when former Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee began peace efforts and cross-border trade with Pakistan in 1999, the then army chief, General Pervez Musharraf, was naturally not pleased with it. He is believed to have planned the May-July 1999 war in Kargil, in Indian-administered Kashmir, which was triggered by the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Islamist militants over the Indian side of the border
As folks here already know, there's no distinction between the civilian and military. The civilian govt exists on the pleasure of the military. The author makes it sound as if they are two competing power centres.Strangely, though it should know better, India's policy towards Islamabad does not reflect realities in Pakistan. New Delhi often refuses to participate in bilateral talks with Islamabad, accusing it of supporting terror groups – as it makes no official distinction between Pakistan's civilian government and the military establishment; nor does it accept that Pakistan's government and people are also victims of terrorism.
This is the basic mistake made by most Western based commentators and many Indian too. But then writing here, I'm just preaching to the choir! However, folks who lurk here should understand this point.
Re: J & K news and discussion
SC upholds freeze on delimitation in J-K till 2026 - http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... 26/708743/
Which probably means that Jammu people to remain second class citizens for many years to come.
Which probably means that Jammu people to remain second class citizens for many years to come.
Re: J & K news and discussion
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opini ... gewanted=1
Also this traitor has failed to mention that 60 years back a similar separate nation demand was done by similar people, and now the same are coming back to India as illegal immigrants whenever they get half a chance.
Even if Azadi is given to Kashmir, what's the guarentee that Kashmiris will not flock to India like illegal BDs and Pakis still do. The solution is to create protectorates so the world is safe from barbarians.
Of course by that time, this traitor would be long dead after winning few shining medals to go with her ugly smile.
This traitor has failed to mention that vestiges of Hindu and Buddhist civilization have been wiped off from valley.I was in Kashmir 10 days ago, in that beautiful valley on the Pakistani border, home to three great civilizations — Islamic, Hindu and Buddhist.
Also this traitor has failed to mention that 60 years back a similar separate nation demand was done by similar people, and now the same are coming back to India as illegal immigrants whenever they get half a chance.
Even if Azadi is given to Kashmir, what's the guarentee that Kashmiris will not flock to India like illegal BDs and Pakis still do. The solution is to create protectorates so the world is safe from barbarians.
Of course by that time, this traitor would be long dead after winning few shining medals to go with her ugly smile.
Re: J & K news and discussion
...and The Economist chimes in with it's own slants!
http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero ... tingwrongs
http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero ... tingwrongs
Writing wrongs
Nov 8th 2010, 13:19 by F.R. and A.R. | DELHI
THE politics of the latest attacks by Hindu nationalists on Indian authors is not terribly hard to divine. One extremist bunch, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), an outfit often banned by India’s government, has threatened Arundhati Roy, a prize-winning Indian novelist turned political activist. Ms Roy's crime? That in recent weeks she dared to speak out in favour of protesting (Muslim) Kashmiris, some 110 of whom have been killed in a police crackdown that began in the summer. Ms Roy’s call for an inquiry into those deaths has lead the RSS to demand that she be charged with sedition. Hindu Nationalists reportedly attacked Ms Roy’s home in Delhi at the end of October, determined to settle scores personally.
Re: J & K news and discussion
^
It looks like a rag Shireen Mazari took over.
It looks like a rag Shireen Mazari took over.

Re: J & K news and discussion
Looks like Suzanne is getting a lot of traction in the western press - first in the Economist, then an op-ed in the NY Times. What gives?
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Re: J & K news and discussion
^^^
This is a serious matter.
A specific image of RSS is slowly being built by associating RSS with every issue and presenting twisted news.
This is a serious matter.
A specific image of RSS is slowly being built by associating RSS with every issue and presenting twisted news.
Re: J & K news and discussion
They are Using her name to go after some thing else. She is planning to use herself to target another group.Pranav wrote:Looks like Suzanne is getting a lot of traction in the western press - first in the Economist, then an op-ed in the NY Times. What gives?
This is a tag team with access to global media groups. But find out if Pak hand is behind some of these initiative since they have stealthy funded many such media attacks on anything Indian.
Re: J & K news and discussion
I wonder if the publicity seeking hooker prize winning suzzana knows anything about the instrument of ascension etc.
It seems to me that the hooker gets some kind of perverse thrill in going after the Indian govt, likening herself to David in a David Vs Goliath narrative.
It seems to me that the hooker gets some kind of perverse thrill in going after the Indian govt, likening herself to David in a David Vs Goliath narrative.