Indo-UK: News & Discussion

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 10 Nov 2010 22:55

Just as British PM is educating (not lecturing) Chinese students about vertue of democracy and free speech....................students in Londonistan are storming Westminister.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 14 Nov 2010 16:26

We should have a Londonistan thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11751268

The Portsmouth protest was a reaction to Islamic group Muslims Against Crusades burning poppies in Kensington, west London, during a two-minute silence on Thursday to mark the anniversary of Armistice Day.

As the clock struck 1100 GMT, they burned a model of a poppy and chanted "British soldiers burn in hell".

So, these folks who are likely immigrants have the nerve to protest in their adopted country and chant soldiers burn in hell. Its one thing to not agree with the policies but to do it on Armistice day is particularly insulting.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 14 Nov 2010 18:38

muslim protesters burn giant poppy at remembrance 2010

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 14 Nov 2010 20:35

^ Wow. Has the beeb bothered to cover the obvious? And also gotten reactions from the local BNP spokesgents to such a brazen display of loyalty and patriotism?

Impressive. Excessive. Depressive. Essive, in short.

Goes to prove that Jo lahore mein gandu, woh UKstan mein aur bhi lahori.

Anyway, how terrible such pakiness should be on open display in a country as honorable as Britisstan, one has to wonder. Some may even say that UQ deserves all the pakis it has, x10. There are times, when admittedly, even moi wouldn't entirely disagree.

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 14 Nov 2010 21:46

If I were the PM of India I would give instructions for RAA agents to use fake passports, fake visas or shipping containers or some civilian submarine to export Pakis to UK, Canada, Australia & New Zealand.
1 Million pakis to each country will serve them right, probably 2 million to UK.
Some yindoo SDREs can threaten some Kashmiri stone throwers and RAA can arrange for their assylum to UKstan.
For all the mischief that UK has created, justice has to be done.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Nov 2010 01:08

Poppy burning needs to be understood in light of the British denial of the British Muslim's fair share of life and power. As a separate nation, British Muslims should have their own state within the UK.

Replying to Jinnah on August 5, Churchill ‘‘espoused the right of Moslems and the Depressed Classes to their fair share of life and power. I feel that it is most important that the British Army should not be used to dominate the Moslems, even though the caste Hindus might claim numerical majority in a constituent assembly’’.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 15 Nov 2010 02:34

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ikh_Story/

My only gripe with this is that it was shown at 11 PM and it should have been titled "The Indian story"

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 13:52

a lot of sikh youngsters in the Uk are brought up with a sikh-punjabi identity first and indian-ness as a secondary or even teritary thing. mostly it is benign and blurred and for many it (identity) is one and the same thing. most 2nd and now 3rd generation kids think of themselves as locals with a slightly different look. however, this also allows the space for others to exploit separation and differences, hence the popularity of khalistani views outside india. the paquis have been adept at infiltrating this space with their 'shared punjabi' culture scam to encourage division... takes a certain amount of vigilence to spot it and counter it before it takes hold

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 15 Nov 2010 16:03

What about the sappers, the brave soldiers from vellore, dindigul and the madurai area which if I am not wrong is still a catchment area for soldiers, mercara from the coorg another warrior clan, the rajputs, the gharwalis,the champaran they all played their part?

On another note even today in India the indian jawan often does not get a decent ride back home as they sleep near the stinking toilet while the middle class snuggles up, excretes and has no sense of consideration as it curses the men and their heavy trunks. A ride by the tired and dirty Erode wap4 from delhi to ernakulam that works 2626 kerala express with its tired soldiers both the locomotive and the men that it is taking with it headshome, is ample evidence of the apathy towards these men and why it becomes meaningless to live a life other that of eating,sleeping, copulating and making money and that valourising one community; at the cost of these other brave men who play with death is simply, not fair. These men, the jawans the sum total of whose numbers comprise the moving wheels of the army, become slaves of another monster hard liquor that eventually, consumes their lives and kills their families.

The beeb has got it wrong[harsh cuts are on their way!] Wish members especially in the UK with more cultural and material capital and resources to make their voices heard, could register their protest instead of just writing about it here in the strongest manner possible. No doubt the sikhs made immeasurable contributions but not registering other valient Indian soldiers from vellore and many other regions who were no less brave and made no less a contribution is simply factually and ethically wrong and dismissive of the unsung dark skinned dravidian and soldiers from other regions of India. Even if the prorgam was on the sikhs it does not do harm in registering the contribution of others. India is again very much underplayed and the sikh identity is valourised. Bravery is again contextual and its definition changes during the course of different epochal eras. Does this make squadron leader suresh whom I had the privilege of meeting a few times, any less braver? He did not come from a warrior family an empirical fact that BR archives will attest in the affirmative.

It is also individual qualities that make a hero not religion alone which constiutes a part of that making the myth making process[marcel mauss provides and interesting account of what a myth is and his famous book The Gift is an important must read for a strategist]. But unless judicial justice is done to atone for 1984, resentment will continue to persist in-spite of much of my reasoning as evidence of interacting to many bus drivers of route number 801 in coventry will indicate. Mr.Lalmohan is spot on that the khalistanis sentiment is quite active in the UK and is spurred on by those who aspire paradise, ummah and the k word.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 15 Nov 2010 16:13

Lalmohan wrote:a lot of sikh youngsters in the Uk are brought up with a sikh-punjabi identity first and indian-ness as a secondary or even teritary thing. mostly it is benign and blurred and for many it (identity) is one and the same thing. most 2nd and now 3rd generation kids think of themselves as locals with a slightly different look. however, this also allows the space for others to exploit separation and differences, hence the popularity of khalistani views outside india. the paquis have been adept at infiltrating this space with their 'shared punjabi' culture scam to encourage division... takes a certain amount of vigilence to spot it and counter it before it takes hold

This is 400% true. When confronted with contradictions such as Khalistanis taking help of Pakis and turning a blind eye to forced conversions of Sikhs in Pure land, the reaction is of denial. The belief seems to be Khalistanis are charitable organisation that abhors violence takes up arms only as a last resort, and when countered with the Dera affair, it is somehow "justified". When asked about the tendency of Islamists to convert and marry Punjabi women in UK and the lack of action by Khalistanis, again it is of silence.

This generation is being brought up on propagandu of Op. Blue Star and the belief that Sikhs are living in India under subjugation. Hence the alignment with Islamists and as Lal mullah says:

the paquis have been adept at infiltrating this space with their 'shared punjabi' culture scam to encourage division

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 16:22

well... one sikh friend who was taken in by the paquispin has just found himself seriously out of pocket because of his generosity in helping out 'someone in need' who has scammed him. another so called paqui friend of his has now started imposing his cultural and religious norms upon him, taking advantage of his politeness and generosity.

and as tanaji says, tales of op blue star are never far behind

as for the beeb article, very likely a punjabi sikh origin person initiated the research - absolutely nothing wrong with that. all stories about indians are worth telling.

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 15 Nov 2010 16:36

Very true Mr.Lalmohan. Can an attempt not be made to set the record straight?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 17:19

jaibhim-ji, all of us need to do a little bit every day

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 20:06

Ajatshatru wrote:
however, this also allows the space for others to exploit separation and differences, hence the popularity of khalistani views outside india.
At the same time, I have met a lot of Pakistani origin Muslim men (even some married) who boast about their having an affair with British Asian Sikh girls (though, perhaps, these girls families may not be aware of such affairs)....But one just has to see the reaction of some Sikhs in the UK even at the mere idea of Sikh girl(s) marrying, according to them, 'Hindu Punjabis' in the UK....

Ajatshatru,I dont agree with you at all on the above. What you have written is very very misleading. I have personally seen many Sikh-Gujarati and Sikh-Hindu Punjabi marriges happening. They are my freinds, relatives etc. I have never seen any objection or bad reaction on this within the families. I dont know what do you mean by "one just has to see the reaction of some Sikhs in the UK ".Where did you hear or read this? Any proof?Back in punjab If young sikh girls, boys are involved in intercaste marriges it becomes a big isssue and have resulted in many honor killings. Honor killings in Haryana and UP are so common. Now compare this with UK sikhs.
Coming onto pakistanis after sikh girls issue. Only one sentence, Sikh families will never accept their daughter's eloping with pakistani's.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 20:18

jagga's last sentence is very true in my observations

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 20:41

Also, pakistanis do respect sikhs. Why? May be they are aware of the way sikhs always fought vigorously to protect their way of life during past centuries.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 15 Nov 2010 20:50

Jagga,

I can second Ajatshatru on that one, Pakistanis boast about their affairs with not just Sikhs in general, but with anyone outside their own Pakistani Muslim community. They seem to feel superior sons of the land of pure when they exploit girls outside their religion, community or country. It seems to reinforce their ideology of being "superior" because some girls opt to go out with them instead of Sikhs, Hindus or Christians because Hindu, Sikh or Christians are not half (or 1/10th ? ) the men them Pakistanis are.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 15 Nov 2010 20:58

jagga wrote:.
Coming onto pakistanis after sikh girls issue. Only one sentence, Sikh families will never accept their daughter's eloping with pakistani's.

But thats the strange bit. They will not accept marrying a Pakistani muslim, but at the same time, some of the youth will show great camaraderie with Pakistanis, to the extent of saying they are their brothers. When countered with the clear tactic of conversion by marriage by such Pakistani brothers, the reaction is either to deny it happens or silence. For a lot of the Brit Sikh youth (or the ones that are upto 40) , the attitude is we are anything except Indian, at the risk of finding an alliance with Pakistanis. Of course, this observation does not apply to all of them, but I would say around 30-40%...
Also, when confronted with the observation that how come some of these pro Khalistani types that gather funds for Khalistani cause seem to live in comfort, there is no response. I doubt if there is any auditing going on in this.

Southall Gurudwara was the prime source of Khalistani preachings. I hear they opened another gurudwara recently in the same area.

Basically the scam is that of preying on the insecurities and guilt complexes of migrant Sikhs that came to UK in 1950-60s. Being very religious, at some corner of their minds, they have a guilt complex that they left their near and dear ones back in India. Having flourished in UK due to their hard work and perseverance, this guilt complex is a bit magnified and they want to stick to their roots. Hence these types are ultra conservative at home. When Blue Star happened, the Khalistani types immediately took advantage and kept preying on this feeling saying, look your religion is in danger (no denying that GoI contributed some by its ham handed policies). Hence these types contribute heavily towards the Khalistani cause. Some eventually saw through the game being played, some did not. When their children grew up, they grew up in the atmosphere of the gurudwara that promoted the concept of the fearless Sikh warriors taking on the Indian state. Part of that strategy is denying anything Indian as anything related to India is evil personified. But that is not so easy, since Sikhism and India are intertwined to the hilt. So, the counter to that by the gurudwaras is to promote the Pakistani identity, since the Pakistanis provide guns and support and it also helps that some of the important Sikh places of worship are in Pakistan. Hence we have these youths spouting that they have more in common with Islam. A factual counter is pointless, since its cognitive dissonance for them (to borrow from Shiv).

The blowback is the Islamist trying to convert the Sikhs, and the obvious cleansing of them from Pak and Afghanistan. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 21:25

well its OT, but we need closure on delhi riots. the guilty have to be prosecuted and imprisoned
the paquis may boast of bedding n number of hindu and sikh girls, but the reality is somewhat different - some does happen but in many cases the paquis are in a spectrum from being drug pushing 'white slavers' to guboing each other. normal cases are few and far between.
the sikh commmunity is also very socially conservative, which in a permissive society like the UK often has the opposite effect on young people - women in particular - the paquis know this and prey on it. easily avoided in my opinion through some more relaxed attitudes in the parents.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 21:30

^^ many in the sikh community in the Uk have probably become more insular in order to maintain their identity.. that would explain the above attitude. i have certainly experienced the muscular stare by the brothers of one young sikh lady

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 21:55

what pressing need my friend? stating facts... its what the paquis brag about

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 15 Nov 2010 21:59

"Two brains Willets" on a India tour

British minister visits ISRO, looks forward to collaboration
Bangalore, Nov 15, (PTI):

A British minister on Monday said his country was looking forward to collaborate with India in the areas of space technology and academics.

"We are looking forward to closer cooperation with India", British Minister for Universities and Science David Willetts told PTI after visiting the ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC) here.

This follows the visit of the British Prime Minister David Cameron to India during which the two countries had decided to take the collaboration to a new level, he said.

The UK is looking forward to collaboration in the areas of sharing of space technology and academics, he said.

As a first concrete example of this strengthened partnership, Willetts invited India to partner with the UK in its TechDemoSat programme.

TechDemoSat is an industry-led technology demonstration satellite which aims to provide a low-Earth-orbit test bed to help demonstrate the technical maturity and commercial viability of innovative new space technology.

It is a low-cost satellite platform into which payloads will be packaged from a range of industrial and academic organisations.

Director of the ISRO Satellite Centre Dr T K Alex invited the UK to consider possibility of partnering with India to train the next generation of space scientists through academic exchange between the Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology, Indian Institute of Remote Sensing, Centre for Space Science and Technology Education in Asia and the Pacific and leading UK universities.

Willetts said it was a great honour to be the first visiting UK Minister to tour ISAC.
He said he was impressed by the facilities and potential of real-world impact of satellites like Resourcesat-2 on areas such as agricultural production and water resource management.

"I am delighted that Dr Alex shares my vision of much closer cooperation and collaboration between the UK and India on space science and innovation and I look forward to welcoming an Indian delegation to the UK in the near future," he said.

Willetts, accompanied by the British Deputy High Commissioner to Karnataka and officials from the UK Space Agency and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, viewed the construction of Resourcesat-2 and a satellite testing facility at ISAC.

Willetts first visited India in July this year along with a major UK delegation. The delegation to India was led by the British Prime Minister David Cameron and joined by a team of Cabinet ministers, senior British business representatives, leading academics and sporting figures.

Last week in Delhi, Willetts, delivered a keynote speech at the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) Higher Education Summit 2010.

He was also a guest of Honour at the National Education Day and co-chaired the Ministerial India Education Forum with Kapil Sibal.

In Bangalore, Willetts was also scheduled to meet representatives of Indian Industry and senior academics in the Indian research system.

"We are very keen in cementing our ties with the Indian Space organisation", George Pritchard, Industrial Policy, UK Space Agency said today.

"UK Space Agnecy and ISRO continue to have discussions on finalising details of collaborative projects," which they hope to enter into, he said.

ISRO sources said the British minister evinced keen interest in the activities of Indian space and agreed to take it forward through an MoU. He had discussions to identify areas which could be taken up with signing of an MoU subsequently

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/113 ... looks.html

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Nov 2010 22:00

Lalmohan wrote:well its OT, but we need closure on delhi riots. the guilty have to be prosecuted and imprisoned
the paquis may boast of bedding n number of hindu and sikh girls, but the reality is somewhat different - some does happen but in many cases the paquis are in a spectrum from being drug pushing 'white slavers' to guboing each other. normal cases are few and far between.
the sikh commmunity is also very socially conservative, which in a permissive society like the UK often has the opposite effect on young people - women in particular - the paquis know this and prey on it. easily avoided in my opinion through some more relaxed attitudes in the parents.

If the paquis stopped locking away their daughters and standing guard on their doors, all paqui girls would run away with Indians.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 22:03

whats your point?

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 22:09

Ajatshatru what are you trying to prove? Explain it first. Any prejudice against sikhs?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 22:11

i have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... please help me understand your point of view

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 22:12

But thats the strange bit. They will not accept marrying a Pakistani muslim, but at the same time, some of the youth will show great camaraderie with Pakistanis, to the extent of saying they are their brothers. When countered with the clear tactic of conversion by marriage by such Pakistani brothers, the reaction is either to deny it happens or silence. For a lot of the Brit Sikh youth (or the ones that are upto 40) , the attitude is we are anything except Indian, at the risk of finding an alliance with Pakistanis. Of course, this observation does not apply to all of them, but I would say around 30-40%...

Doesnt mater if it is strange for you. But the fact is and I repeat again "Sikh families will never accept their daughter's eloping with pakistani's." Yes British born and brought up sikh's and Hindus dont have much problem with pakistanis. Britain is a mixed society, these kids have studied in the same schools, played togather and socialise in the clubs. India pakistani rivalary doesnt come into their minds much. But this brother brother thing? Where are you getting it from? I have never seen atleast any of the sikh in my relation who is in mad brotherly love with pakistanis. Where are you getting this figure of 30-40% anti Indian, Pro pakistani Sikhs? Seeing one or two incidents and blowing them apart is nothing but propagandu. There was news doing rounds sometime last year, where Sikhs were accused of colaborating with British Nationalist Party against the pakistani muslims.

Also, when confronted with the observation that how come some of these pro Khalistani types that gather funds for Khalistani cause seem to live in comfort, there is no response. I doubt if there is any auditing going on in this.

What are you talking about? Do you want average Brit sikh to investigate and do all the audits? How successfull is GOI in investigating and auditing the funds of Maoist?

Southall Gurudwara was the prime source of Khalistani preachings. I hear they opened another gurudwara recently in the same area.

Ok I am not very frequently gurdwara visiting type of sikh. I do visit once or twice a month (Southall Gurudwara). I have never seen anti India preachings happening. I have never witnessed it personally. I dont doubt a single bit if it was common in 1980's but I was not here in UK that time.

Basically the scam is that of preying on the insecurities and guilt complexes of migrant Sikhs that came to UK in 1950-60s. Being very religious, at some corner of their minds, they have a guilt complex that they left their near and dear ones back in India. Having flourished in UK due to their hard work and perseverance, this guilt complex is a bit magnified and they want to stick to their roots. Hence these types are ultra conservative at home. When Blue Star happened, the Khalistani types immediately took advantage and kept preying on this feeling saying, look your religion is in danger (no denying that GoI contributed some by its ham handed policies). Hence these types contribute heavily towards the Khalistani cause. Some eventually saw through the game being played, some did not.

Khalistani propoganda was there in west. I am not denying it. But pictures of attack on Golden Temple, With dead bodies everywhere, 84 anti sikh riots, Murderers roaming free proudly, No justice done. Now khalistanis dont need to put too much effort after all this. Do they?And Sikhs dont need to prove they are Pro-India.

So, the counter to that by the gurudwaras is to promote the Pakistani identity, since the Pakistanis provide guns and support and it also helps that some of the important Sikh places of worship are in Pakistan. Hence we have these youths spouting that they have more in common with Islam. A factual counter is pointless, since its cognitive dissonance for them (to borrow from Shiv).
The blowback is the Islamist trying to convert the Sikhs, and the obvious cleansing of them from Pak and Afghanistan. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I have seen no gurdwara in UK promoting pakistani identity to sikhs. No sikhs say they have more in common with Islam. Pakistanis are not only trying to convert the sikhs to Islam but also christians and hindus. Rather than all this propagandu , It will be great if you provide some proof as well, while writing all the above. In canada there is khalistani problem/propaganda that's the reason MMS raised it. But in your post about UK sikhs you are accusing them a lot without providing any links and proof's.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 22:20

Ajatshatru wrote:Jagga wrote:

Any prejudice against sikhs?
Come on Jagga....half of my cousins are married into Sikh families and a lot of Sikh girls are married to my cousins....

Well,I think bolded part explains everything. Do we still need to discuss this topic(Hindu Sikh marriage)?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 22:44

we do not need a hindu vs sikh discussion. full stop

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 22:55

Ajatshatru wrote:
Britain is a mixed society, these kids have studied in the same schools, played togather and socialise in the clubs.
People of Indian and Pakistani origin in the UK may frequent the same clubs but what makes you assume that most even socialise together?

Again what do you want to prove and whats your point?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Nov 2010 22:58

Ajatshatru wrote:
we do not need a hindu vs sikh discussion.
And we shouldn't mischievously hint at such a possibility either....

huh?

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 15 Nov 2010 23:18

Ajatshatru wrote:How successfull is GOI in investigating and auditing the funds of Maoist?
Two wrongs make a right?

Wow, So you are still expecting average sikhs like me and many others to leave aside our daily responsibilities and start doing auditing and investigations?

Jagga first wrote:

I have never seen atleast any of the sikh in my relation who is in mad brotherly love with pakistanis.
Jagga then wrote:

Seeing one or two incidents and blowing them apart is nothing but propagandu

Tanaji so confidently saying 30-40% Brit Sikhs are anti India. So I guess he might have seen few such incidents.See my answer keeping this in mind.

But some may also argue the same thing with your reasoning that 'not having seen any of the Sikhs in your relation' does not mean it is not happening at all....

Not some but your are now very cleverly and indirectly trying to say most UK Sikhs = Anti Indian.

But pictures of attack on Golden Temple, With dead bodies everywhere, 84 anti sikh riots, Murderers roaming free proudly, No justice done.
(i) There were also Hindus specifically targeted at that time in Punjab e.g. Hindus taken out from buses and shot dead but I would like to believe the terrorists who did indulged in such killings at that time were just that.....terrorists. So even Hindus can now talk/claim about murderers roaming free during the 1980s and 1990s in Punjab and very little justice done but thankfully that period is over and thanks to Gill, militancy was all but crushed in Punjab.

( All above I said is truth these things did help khalistanis a lot for spreading propoganda. You dont want to believe , well not my problem. State didnt sponsered the killing of hindus. Kiling of sikhs in delhi was sponsered by state, led by congress .)

(ii) Some Sikhs may still be in denial about events that led to Operation Blue star but there is documentary evidence (a lot of TV channels had shown at that time) that Bhindranwale and his cronies had stored arms inside the Golden Temple....also, a number of women were held captive there by Bhindranwale (and we all know for what) who were released during Operation Blue star.(Operation Blue Star could have been handeled in better way. Some sikhs may be in denial but subsequent events of mass murder and no justice also didnt help)

(iii) Everyone agrees that all guilty of 1984 riots should be punished by the Courts. (No Hope)

No sikhs say they have more in common with Islam.
Your view or a view shared by all Sikhs in the UK?

I have never read in any newspaper, magazine where sikhs have written that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.
I have never heard any UK sikh saying that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.
I have never heard any sikh on Television saying that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.
I have not seen Akal Takht saying that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.
I have not read any book saying that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.
I have never heard in any UK gurdwara that Sikhism is in more common with Islam.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 15 Nov 2010 23:25

Looks like Beebs (BBC) strategy succeeded!

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Nov 2010 15:59

jagga wrote: Doesnt mater if it is strange for you. But the fact is and I repeat again "Sikh families will never accept their daughter's eloping with pakistani's." ...
...

You are mistaking my words. Actually I agree with you that Sikh families will never accept Pakistanis. What I do find strange is inspite of this, some UK sikh youths show common cause with Pakistanis in their support for Khalistan.
As for the 30-40% number, I am the first to admit that I have not done a scientific survey on this. This is based on conversations with friends, people who have lived there. Admittedly this number would differ as per the age group. I could well be mistaken on this, so apologies.

What are you talking about? Do you want average Brit sikh to investigate and do all the audits? How successfull is GOI in investigating and auditing the funds of Maoist?

GoI is hardly a shining example to follow. My point is this: if one contributes to a organization, especially a closed one such as Khalistan funds, isnt it your basic duty or curiosity to find out how your funds are utilized? Or do you randomly hand over your hard earned money to anyone who asks for it without accountability?

Ok I am not very frequently gurdwara visiting type of sikh. I do visit once or twice a month (Southall Gurudwara). I have never seen anti India preachings happening. I have never witnessed it personally. I dont doubt a single bit if it was common in 1980's but I was not here in UK that time.

I am told that there used to be "artificats" or memorabilia of Khalistani "freedom fighters" on public display at a lot of the gurudwaras exhorting people to contribute towards the cause. Then again, you have the personal experience described in the earlier post. That Southall Gurudwara is managed by a lot of pro Khalistanis is a fact. What you fail to understand is that it does not automatically make people who visit the gurudwara Khalistanis.

Khalistani propoganda was there in west. I am not denying it. But pictures of attack on Golden Temple, With dead bodies everywhere, 84 anti sikh riots, Murderers roaming free proudly, No justice done. Now khalistanis dont need to put too much effort after all this. Do they?And Sikhs dont need to prove they are Pro-India.

Where have I denied any of all this? In fact my post mentioned that GoI's ham handed policies were to blame for no small measure. Aren't you perceiving insults where there arent any. Secondly, the discussion is about UK Sikhs (or ones that have UK passports), so please do not draw linkages to ALL Sikhs. If a minority of them have hatred towards India, how does it mean that ALL Sikhs do? Where have I implied that?

I have seen no gurdwara in UK promoting pakistani identity to sikhs. No sikhs say they have more in common with Islam. Pakistanis are not only trying to convert the sikhs to Islam but also christians and hindus. Rather than all this propagandu , It will be great if you provide some proof as well, while writing all the above. In canada there is khalistani problem/propaganda that's the reason MMS raised it. But in your post about UK sikhs you are accusing them a lot without providing any links and proof's.

Again, you are confusing things. Khalistani =/= Gurudwara =/= Gurdwara congregation. You are misinterpreting my post to sound as if all Sikhs are Khalistanis, which is clearly not what I meant. All I am saying is that there exists in UK, a minority of UK Sikhs that are Pro Khalistani and anti Indian, and do find common cause with Pakistanis. Said minority also has some influence in certain UK gurudwaras. To extrapolate this to " all gurudwara" and "all Sikhs" is grossly twisting facts.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 16 Nov 2010 17:41

Tanaji wrote:
jagga wrote: Doesnt mater if it is strange for you. But the fact is and I repeat again "Sikh families will never accept their daughter's eloping with pakistani's." ...
...

You are mistaking my words. Actually I agree with you that Sikh families will never accept Pakistanis. What I do find strange is inspite of this, some UK sikh youths show common cause with Pakistanis in their support for Khalistan.
As for the 30-40% number, I am the first to admit that I have not done a scientific survey on this. This is based on conversations with friends, people who have lived there. Admittedly this number would differ as per the age group. I could well be mistaken on this, so apologies.
(Thanks for making it more clear. Also I am still waiting to come across those some sikhs showing the brotherly love to pakistanis..)
What are you talking about? Do you want average Brit sikh to investigate and do all the audits? How successfull is GOI in investigating and auditing the funds of Maoist?
GoI is hardly a shining example to follow. My point is this: if one contributes to a organization, especially a closed one such as Khalistan funds, isnt it your basic duty or curiosity to find out how your funds are utilized? Or do you randomly hand over your hard earned money to anyone who asks for it without accountability?(Tanaji I am not sure which funds you are talking about. The gurudwara management make the accounts public every year. So far I have not heard any money being used against India. On all the sikh radio channels,TV channels I am yet to come to see a khalistani organisation advertising and asking for funds.Same for the magazine desh-pradesh. If they are (Khalistanis) collecting the funds, for avg UK sikh, its very difficult to find thier modus operandi.So its better if you provide some proof before asking question highlighted in bold.I would take it as your desh-seva.)
Ok I am not very frequently gurdwara visiting type of sikh. I do visit once or twice a month (Southall Gurudwara). I have never seen anti India preachings happening. I have never witnessed it personally. I dont doubt a single bit if it was common in 1980's but I was not here in UK that time.
I am told that there used to be "artificats" or memorabilia of Khalistani "freedom fighters" on public display at a lot of the gurudwaras exhorting people to contribute towards the cause. Then again, you have the personal experience described in the earlier post. That Southall Gurudwara is managed by a lot of pro Khalistanis is a fact. What you fail to understand is that it does not automatically make people who visit the gurudwara Khalistanis.
(Ok If it used to be,thats bad. For now all I can see is one painting of Bhindrawale in one gurudwara, go and check it yourself how many people even stand in front of that photo even for a second.)

Khalistani propoganda was there in west. I am not denying it. But pictures of attack on Golden Temple, With dead bodies everywhere, 84 anti sikh riots, Murderers roaming free proudly, No justice done. Now khalistanis dont need to put too much effort after all this. Do they?And Sikhs dont need to prove they are Pro-India.
Where have I denied any of all this? In fact my post mentioned that GoI's ham handed policies were to blame for no small measure. Aren't you perceiving insults where there arent any. Secondly, the discussion is about UK Sikhs (or ones that have UK passports), so please do not draw linkages to ALL Sikhs. If a minority of them have hatred towards India, how does it mean that ALL Sikhs do? Where have I implied that?
(As a sikh I dont see UK Sikhs diffrently. They are our brothers and with good feelings for India )

I have seen no gurdwara in UK promoting pakistani identity to sikhs. No sikhs say they have more in common with Islam. Pakistanis are not only trying to convert the sikhs to Islam but also christians and hindus. Rather than all this propagandu , It will be great if you provide some proof as well, while writing all the above. In canada there is khalistani problem/propaganda that's the reason MMS raised it. But in your post about UK sikhs you are accusing them a lot without providing any links and proof's.
Again, you are confusing things. Khalistani =/= Gurudwara =/= Gurdwara congregation. You are misinterpreting my post to sound as if all Sikhs are Khalistanis, which is clearly not what I meant. All I am saying is that there exists in UK, a minority of UK Sikhs that are Pro Khalistani and anti Indian, and do find common cause with Pakistanis. Said minority also has some influence in certain UK gurudwaras. To extrapolate this to " all gurudwara" and "all Sikhs" is grossly twisting facts.(Well that Insignificant Percentage is dying slowly with each passing day )

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Nov 2010 15:31

Could we please cease this line of conversation? Please remember that this thread is about Indo-UK relations and this is the Strat forum.
I will delete the off-topic posts shortly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2010 09:57

Please add a warning to the offending posters.

Thanks, ramana

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 Nov 2010 09:52

Sharia lessons for pupils aged six: BBC uncovers 'weekend schools' that teach pupils how to hack off thieves' hands

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hools.html

Pupils asked to list the 'reprehensible' qualities of Jews
Around 5,000 children from 6 to 18 attend a network of 40 schools
Children in Britain are being taught brutal Sharia law punishments, including how
to hack off a criminal’s hand or foot.
So-called ‘weekend schools’ for Muslim pupils as young as six also teach that the penalty for gay sex is execution and that ‘Zionists’ are plotting to take over the world for the Jews.
One set textbook challenges youngsters to list the ‘reprehensible’ qualities of Jews.

Another for six-year-olds asks them to answer what happens to someone who dies who is not a believer in Islam. The answer being looked for is ‘hellfire’.

A BBC Panorama investigation, to be screened tonight, identified a network of more than 40 weekend schools teaching around 5,000 children, from age six to 18.

The schools – which offer the hardline Saudi National Curriculum – are run under the umbrella of ‘Saudi Students Clubs and Schools in the UK and Ireland’.

They are not state-funded, and do not use Government buildings. They are able to exploit a loophole which means weekend schools are not inspected by Ofsted.

Last night, experts at the Policy Exchange think-tank warned that similar extremists could seek to exploit the Government’s policy of giving greater freedoms from state control to free schools and academies.

Clear message: Education Secretary Michael Gove has said he would not tolerate anti-Semitism and homophobia in English schools
They call for the establishment of a due diligence unit to check whether those applying to open the schools have an extremist background.

Current checks are largely limited to fraud, criminal convictions and funding.

Education Secretary Michael Gove, who is believed to be supportive of the idea, said he would not tolerate anti-Semitism and homophobia in English schools.

The Panorama investigation identified a book for 15-year-olds being used in the classes which teaches about Sharia law and its punishments.

It says: ‘For thieves their hands will be cut off for a first offence, and their foot for a subsequent offence.’

There are diagrams showing children where cuts must be made. One passage says: ‘The specified punishment of the thief is cutting off his right hand at the wrist. Then it is cauterised to prevent him from bleeding to death.’

For acts of ‘sodomy’, children are told that the penalty is death and it states a difference of opinion whether this should be done by stoning, or burning with fire, or throwing over a cliff.

Panorama alleges that a building used for one of the schools, in Ealing, West London, is owned by the Saudi government .

Mr Gove told the programme: ‘I have no desire or wish to intervene in the decisions that the Saudi government makes in its own education system.

‘But I’m clear that we cannot have anti-Semitic material of any kind being used in English schools. Ofsted are doing some work in this area.

‘They’ll be reporting to me shortly about how we can ensure that part-time provision is better registered and better inspected in the future.’
The text books for 15-year-olds revive the so-called ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’, which teach that Zionists want to establish world domination for Jews.

The Saudi text books instruct pupils: ‘The Jews have tried to deny them (the Protocols) but there are many proofs of their veracity and their origin among the elders of Zion.’

The text books say the ‘main goal’ of the ‘Zionist movement’ is ‘for the Jews to have control over the world and its resources’ which, the book allege, Zionists seek to achieve partly by ‘inciting rancour and rivalry among the great powers so that they fight one another.’

Mr Gove said anyone who cites the Protocols of Zion is ‘indulging in one of the oldest and foulest anti Semitic smears that, that we know of’.

In a written response to the findings, the Saudi ambassador said the schools had nothing to do with the Saudi embassy.

It stated: ‘Any tutoring activities that may have taken place among any other group of Muslims in the United Kingdom are absolutely individual to that group and not affiliated to or endorsed by the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia.’

Referring to the lesson that tasks children to list the ‘reprehensible qualities of the Jews’, in a letter to the BBC, the Saudi ambassador said it was ‘dangerously deceptive and misleading to address such texts and discuss them out of their overall historical, cultural and linguistic contexts’.

Panorama separately claimed some Muslim private schools have expressed extreme sentiments on their school websites.

These include: ‘We need to defend our children from the forces of evil’, and ‘our children are exposed to a culture that is in opposition to almost everything Islam stands for’.

Policy Exchange says Britain’s faith and other schools are increasingly vulnerable to extremist influences.

It claims in a report that the Department for Education, Ofsted, education authorities and schools are ‘not equipped’ to meet such challenges.

Current checks for extremism are described as ‘piecemeal’.

The report adds: ‘The Government’s policy of opening up the education system to new academies and free schools programmes could be exploited unless urgent measures are taken to counter extremist influence.’

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Nov 2010 21:23

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Nov 2010 23:07

Singha wrote:

Why laughing saar??

The little girls will soon be off to tailoring classes to sew the latest in natty soocide vests.