Indian Autos Thread

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Nov 2010 16:20

Shivas-> Please see my response to Sanjeevpunj post as to the taxation structure which makes cars much more pricier in Desh when compared with Massa and Gulf. In gulf gvernments get money through sale of oil and in Massa, it is ,mainly through Direct Taxes, i.e income tax. In India, indirect taxes are the main source of Government revenue.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 17 Nov 2010 18:29

http://www.economist.com/node/17465427? ... r/tatanano

The Economist and their incendiary humor...

[quote]Setting itself, but not the market, alight
BARACK OBAMA, visiting India, gushed on November 7th about its “wonder car”, the Nano. Launched last year by Tata Motors, it has been widely lauded as a symbol of frugal innovation. Simple, small and fuel-efficient, the world’s cheapest car at “one lakh” (100,000 rupees, roughly $2,250, before tax) was supposed to allow millions of aspiring Indian families to swap their overloaded motorbikes for compact, air-conditioned four-wheelers.

However, so far few drivers are buying it. October, before the festival of Diwali, is reckoned to be an auspicious time to get a family motor, and last month car sales in India rose by 38% compared with a year earlier. But only 3,065 Nanos were sold, a paltry 2% rise on the year before (and well down on September), with cumulative sales for the year reaching just 40,467./quote]

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 17 Nov 2010 21:42

Hmm, that is strange. I had concluded that the Nano would make an ideal disposable car for city traffic given the battering that cars tend to get. Perhaps that's not working out as planned, because it is economical to keep repairing dents and dings because of low labour costs.

manish · Post by **manish** » 17 Nov 2010 23:33

Meanwhile, a dork and dorkette based out of Reuters London office suddenly woke up from a decade long slumber and after reading newspapers from the past week or so and talking to a similarly out-of-action anal-yst, noticed a stunning trend:
India, Russia may follow China in autos M&A

(Reuters) - Indian and Russian companies may follow China's lead in doing overseas deals to help grow their automotive industries, Meyrick Cox of Moelis & Co told the Reuters Global Autos Summit on Tuesday.
China's car industry has spent a decade augmenting its technology, brands and distribution capabilities through alliances, consulting tie-ups and overseas takeovers, culminating in Geely's $1.5 billion purchase of Volvo from Ford this year.

Similarly, Cox said Indian conglomerates such as the family owned Hinduja Group or Mahindra Group, whose Mahindra & Mahindra unit is the country's top utility vehicles maker, could pursue overseas deals that would help them better tap a domestic market of more than 1 billion people.

Duh?Really? 'Follow' China? Wait, the Chinese made what two noteworthy purchases in auto sector (Volvo Cars and a not-so-significant MG). Help me out here if I am missing some of the major deals, but without even doing a simple web search I can recall the following sizable Indian acquisitions in the sector over the past decade or so:
Tata - Daewoo Commercial Vehicles
Tata - JLR
Mahindra - The company that 'could' - Jiangling (sp?) tractors (in PRC itself no less!!)
Mahindra - another 'could' be - Ssangyong (formerly controlled by one of PRC's auto poster childs)
Ashok Leyland (Hindujas) - could and did buy Avia's truck unit(Czech)
Bajaj - KTM stake (35%+ controlled by Bajaj)

I am too lazy to Google for more, but then again I can easily recall other deals in related fields such as auto components and engineering services including Tata's investments into European research and design houses (including parts of what is now called Tata Technologies and the TMETC), Mahindra's investments into Stokes etc.

We may have a smaller market than China, but our industry has definitely been more open and more mature compared to them in international dealmaking.

IMHO the article reeks of poor awareness and knowledge - certainly not befitting a TFTA international news house. The less said about the former Rothschild's advisor to Geely the better if the quotes attributed to him are true.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Nov 2010 02:49

Aditya_V wrote: The reason for the High taxes, Large National population to support NREGCA , welfare schemes unlike UAE ( although Dubai may claim otherwise, it is dependant on Abu DHabi Oil Money). The GCC rely on Oil money hence virtually no taxes on Vehicles.

Good explanation overall. However, the reason for high taxes on CBU (completely built units) is to encourage manufacturing in India so that it increases industrialization and provides jobs. Else, every foreign manufacturer will import from other countries like Thailand, Korea etc.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Nov 2010 14:22

Punanja- This is a reason, but even for local manufacture, the Customs duty on imported compents + excise + vat is significant. SO although the 106% for full import is very high, even domestically manufactured items suffer from high taxes.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 Nov 2010 16:02

We are socialist nation onlee. Cars are luxury onlee. Hence the high taxes

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 19 Nov 2010 13:12

oh come on. The cities have already run out of parking and driving space. There's no infrastructure to support such a high volume of vehicle sales. Only the high end cars are taxed higher. I don't see no taxes damping the nation's ability to buy mid-sizes and hatchbacks. Lets not judge everything development issue from the people's ability to buy.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Nov 2010 13:29

Vasu,

Cars are brought becaues people cannot rely on public transportation to get them from point A to B in relative comfort. I commute 30 kms to office one way.

I would love to take public transport if it was reliable. But it is not. I know which bus to take and what the time table is. But the dam thing is never of time. I ever i have to take a bus. It routenely takes 2.5 to 3.5 hrs of commute one way. Because the frequency is that low. Add to this the breakdowns. Bus running late. Not stoping at the bus stops. Its a nightmare.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 19 Nov 2010 13:46

Oh please don't get me wrong, I am all for owning a vehicle. And of course I live in a big Indian city so I know the need!

My point was mainly that a motor car is a lot more purchasable today than the past. The hatchbacks are great urban cars - smaller, easier driving, decent comfort levels, better mileage, and I would say that when the cheapest of them, lets say the Maruti Alto, starts at 2.5 L, I think it puts it in the purchasing capacity of millions of families.

Unfortunately the push for better urban transportation infrastructure is lacking, and even the posterchild metro projects will only take a few thousand cars off the road, if at all. That was my main grievance in my post, that our cities are becoming more and more incapable of taking in so many vehicles, while most of us have no option but to drive.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Nov 2010 15:40

Vasu,

You are correct in that. perhaps a massive new push towards urbanisation may help ease congestion pervading in the existing cities. The existing large cities IMO are no longer capable of being salvaged unless they can be de-congested.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Nov 2010 09:32

Motor vehicle gurus a question for you...
Off late I have noticed that the front wheel drums (i.e the part to which the tyres are fixed to) is getting a thin quote of black powder. This happens especially during long drives. And this powder can be washed off by spraying water. I checked up with another pal of mine who is a motor vehicle mechanic. His opinion is that it was carbon (black soot) which is covering the wheel drums. His comment was that there could be some problem in the brake shoe alignments, which is causing the wheel drums to get heated up.

My question is can this be caused by the driver's (i.e me) driving style as well?

.

wig · Post by **wig** » 22 Nov 2010 09:49

sachin ji, am not a car guru. imvho
1.if the wheel alignment is out then the tyres as they run will lose rubber unevenly -some of the powder may be deposited on the tyre rim.
2. brake shoe adjustment maybe requried or maybe you forgot to release the hand/parking brake - but then this is a one off happening and not likely to happen on every long drive.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Nov 2010 10:10

wig wrote:1.if the wheel alignment is out then the tyres as they run will lose rubber unevenly -some of the powder may be deposited on the tyre rim.

The tyres are in perfect working order. After some bad experiences earlier, I do check for the conditions of the treads on the tire to see if the rubber is only getting worn out from specific sides of the tyres.

2. brake shoe adjustment maybe requried or maybe you forgot to release the hand/parking brake - but then this is a one off happening and not likely to happen on every long drive.

Hand/Parking brake is released, that is for sure. Because I get an indication on the dashboard if it is ON. It is also kind of a drill for me to check for the parking brake status before I move on.

But one thing, I do have this habit of speeding and then pressing the brakes hard if I see a block/problem ahead. During long distance drives, I have this uncanny ability to speed and then find that I am stuck up with two trucks moving ahead very slowly blocking all the lanes. And then I reduce the speed by hitting the brakes hard.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Nov 2010 10:17

Sachin wrote:
My question is can this be caused by the driver's (i.e me) driving style as well? .

first up The make and Model, then whether it is Alloy Wheels or plain wheels.

it could be wheels misalignments
it could be worn out or gone bad Bushings
it could be brake pads in drum brakes or the shoe in disk brakes shedding
it could be a minor leak from the exhaust

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 22 Nov 2010 10:41

Sachin wrote:Motor vehicle gurus a question for you...
Off late I have noticed that the front wheel drums (i.e the part to which the tyres are fixed to) is getting a thin quote of black powder. This happens especially during long drives. And this powder can be washed off by spraying water. I checked up with another pal of mine who is a motor vehicle mechanic. His opinion is that it was carbon (black soot) which is covering the wheel drums. His comment was that there could be some problem in the brake shoe alignments, which is causing the wheel drums to get heated up.

My question is can this be caused by the driver's (i.e me) driving style as well? .

The black soot is probably due to the brake pads. The coating on the pads result in the soots. It is a very common issue. Ceramic brake pads produce less dust. It is not a safety issue or anything wrong with the pads as such. Just normal wear and tear dust of the brake pads. Nothing to worry about.

Check out these links:

Brake Dust: A Problem That’s Not Really a Problem

Preventing Disc Brake Dust

Lot of brake dust on wheels ?

You can search for more info.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Nov 2010 10:58

Thanks putnanja. Guess, it is not a "crisis situation" at all

. Niran, it is a Wagon R 2006 model, with plain wheels (not Alloy wheels).

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Nov 2010 11:12

Wagon R have uses fixed Calipers in their front brakes, they tends to produce more brake dust after they heat up
cause the pads do not follow the contour of the brake rotor as floating calipers, however if it is a new phenomena
then those brake pads are aging fast hence more shedding, take off the wheels and look at the rotor, if it is smooth
then change the Pads, Ceramic Pads are wee bit costly, but "once you use em you gonna always use em" very good
braking distance/ feel/ duration/dust wise.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Nov 2010 12:00

Sachin wrote:Motor vehicle gurus a question for you...
Off late I have noticed that the front wheel drums (i.e the part to which the tyres are fixed to) is getting a thin quote of black powder. This happens especially during long drives. And this powder can be washed off by spraying water. I checked up with another pal of mine who is a motor vehicle mechanic. His opinion is that it was carbon (black soot) which is covering the wheel drums. His comment was that there could be some problem in the brake shoe alignments, which is causing the wheel drums to get heated up.

My question is can this be caused by the driver's (i.e me) driving style as well? .

Your Car has Drum Brakes in its front tyres?? Only Fiats and old model ambassodors used to have drum brakes in the front. Anyways , Unless you are some who takes ditches, potholes and speedbrakers head on ( like I have some drivers do especially Indica cabs who drive happily at 50+ over speedbrakers and potholes and then have the car stuck with broken axle in the middle of the road) your driving style should have nothing to do with it.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Nov 2010 12:35

Sachin wrote:During long distance drives, I have this uncanny ability to speed and then find that I am stuck up with two trucks moving ahead very slowly blocking all the lanes. And then I reduce the speed by hitting the brakes hard.

That is not really an ability

. Hard acceleration and hard braking is not good. You lose kmpl, brake and tire life, if engine has not properly warmed up - hard acceleration would increase wear of several parts in engine, frequent clutch usage at high rpm would reduce clutch life etc etc...

Most of the time, there is actually no significant time savings from rash driving. Remember - you cannot drive faster than the vehicle in front of you (unless you have a clear opportunity to overtake). I usually adjust my speed with the accelerator in such a way that brakes are minimally used. 50K plus miles and still going strong on the tires.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Nov 2010 12:51

Gus wrote:Most of the time, there is actually no significant time savings from rash driving.

Lesson learnt the hard way. During a recent trip home (on four laned NH7 and NH47, and then on the double carriage way NH47 from Avanashi,TN onwards...) I realised that how much ever I try the average speed is going to be 60kmph. If I drive early in the morning what ever time I manage to save in the express highway gets lost as soon as I enter the double carriage way NH47. Slow moving trucks, auto rickshaws, buses etc. ensure that. On the express high way also I noticed that tractors, auto rickshaws (goods carriers) have joined the band wagon of trucks. So you speed for 3-4 minutes, only to go slowly behind a set of trucks trying to over take each other at 20kmph and 25kmph speeds. And I feel this situation would continue unless we have trucks and buses with better speed on the road.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Nov 2010 13:05

^ or better lane discipline by overtaking drivers. You really should not be overtaking if you know you are going to hold up vehicles behind you. Truck and bus drivers don't give a hoot. Most of the 'near misses' I observed were of holdups like these causing impatient drivers to do that utterly reckless behavior of driving up fast to the vehicle that is already overtaking and peek on the right side.

In Indian roads, it is optimal to drive just above the the average speed in the segment that you are driving. Driving higher than that is of no use since you will soon hit the slow moving segment where you are forced to slow down and your average comes down anyways.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Nov 2010 13:41

^^^ add to that
-never ever overtake on bends however mild(the bends that is)
-never ever overtake while crossing bridges even on broad multi lane bridges
-while going uphill or downhill always it is the one going up with the "right to"
-the space between two vehical is not for you to get in between.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Nov 2010 13:50

Sachin wrote:
Gus wrote:Most of the time, there is actually no significant time savings from rash driving.
Lesson learnt the hard way. During a recent trip home (on four laned NH7 and NH47, and then on the double carriage way NH47 from Avanashi,TN onwards...) I realised that how much ever I try the average speed is going to be 60kmph. If I drive early in the morning what ever time I manage to save in the express highway gets lost as soon as I enter the double carriage way NH47. Slow moving trucks, auto rickshaws, buses etc. ensure that. On the express high way also I noticed that tractors, auto rickshaws (goods carriers) have joined the band wagon of trucks. So you speed for 3-4 minutes, only to go slowly behind a set of trucks trying to over take each other at 20kmph and 25kmph speeds. And I feel this situation would continue unless we have trucks and buses with better speed on the road.

Nothing to do with speed, the drives probably been driving all night long , so going slow

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Nov 2010 13:55

well the 150-200hp truck engines are very inadequate for the 10-15t load they pile on. you should see the tata and AL trucks in NE hilly roads - barely chugging along at walking pace...which means no reserve power at all to overtake safely or climb up at adequate speed.

its time the GOI mandated some bigger engines for states where hilly roads are common like kerala, uttaranchal, HP, JK, NE, WB....

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Nov 2010 15:11

Gus wrote:Most of the 'near misses' I observed were of holdups like these causing impatient drivers to do that utterly reckless behavior of driving up fast to the vehicle that is already overtaking and peek on the right side.

Saw too such cases during the recent trip. Infact we were watching this swift car driver quite eagerly. He joined the express way after Salem. Poor man would over take my vehicle, go rushing forward and sees a slow moving truck occupying the right most lane. In frusturation he decides to just cut across to the left side and see if he can go through the next lane, and voila there is an auto rickshaw trundling along with a heavy load, and now he moves to the extreme left lane only to see two three TVS 50 Mopeds moving along. There was only one thing to do, curse and jam the brakes.

Best thing I feel for me to do now is to account a solid 7 hours for the journey. No point increasing the BP, fully knowing you are not going to reduce the total time take for the travel.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Nov 2010 21:16

most of the indic yahoos seem to have purchased Swifts - perhaps due to its reputation for speed and good handling. many have a real chip on their shoulder to 'prove' they are faster/have a bigger shlong.
and then the audi drivers showing off their LED 'eyebrow' headlights and bad attitude *blech*

situation will get worse if mid 2011 MUL starts on the new Swift - 4" longer and god forbid with the 1.6ltr euro engine. fanboys are going to be throwing themselves at it like rock chick groupies *shudder*

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Nov 2010 21:48

101 BMWs booked in one day in Aurangabad.

I am surprised that Audi which is assembled/manufactured in Aurangabad has not undertaken a campaign to tap the Pent-up demand there.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Nov 2010 20:38

Anybody test drove a Suzuki SX4 in India? How is it?

I am noticing an explosion of new model Beemers in Dilli - Billis getting Beemer discount or something?

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Nov 2010 20:57

I am surprised that Audi which is assembled/manufactured in Aurangabad has not undertaken a campaign to tap the Pent-up demand there

Maybe Indians are smart enough to know that despite all the protestations to the contrary, Audi is/was originally the vehicle of choice for retired German civil servants. It was the classic babu "vaahan" . What the Ambassador is to the Indian babu, Audi was to the German babu. BMW and Mercs are the real enchiladas. Audi is for me too wannabes!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 25 Nov 2010 00:13

The Aurangabad group has secured a nice deal, I read that for a 3 Series the down payment was 4.5 lacs and SBI has given finance for 7 years @5%.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Nov 2010 10:12

I have been driving extensively in Maharashtra the last few months in a stock standard ALTO on Express ways, 6 lane city roads, narrow roads in the old parts of cities, golden quad Highways, state highways, village roads, dirt roads, errr where is the road kind of road.

There is a lot to write about but in this post I will only mention the tendency of majority of vehicles to drive at high beam all the time.

Its a situation of high beams blinding you from the front, and high beams in all your rear view mirrors. Makes it very challenging to see & avoid pedestrians in dark clothing,cycles without reflectors, cattle, fowl, stray dogs & vehicles without rear reflectors and even brake lights, some times even vehicles coming the wrong way without any headlights . Its downright scary.

Lets try to do what people won't do by using technology first. The government must mandate automatic dippers in all vehicles as OEM equipment. Its not exotic technology any more and will go a long way in making all, particularly highway driving safer and more comfortable.

I have asked and have found out that all my friends have had at least 1 major or minor road scrap in the last 12 months. I never knew I had such good friends because, in all instances, it was never their fault, it was, without exception the other party's fault even if my friends were driving on the wrong side of the road.

I think a lot of people in India are the the greatest out sources in the world, even bigger than the US. Most road users, (Pedestrians, cattle & fowl owners, cyclist's, vehicle drivers with their extended joint families in 1 car, luxury bus operators with a full bus load, all other buses etc etc) are out sourcing their safety and well being to the others (you look out for me, I will use the road as I please). Still trying to understand the logic

I am still trying to understand how an ITvity well travelled high earning friend of mine routinely puts his 2 lovely toddlers, wife and parents in a car at a risk by regularly driving on the wrong side for more than 1 km to avoid having to drive ahead and take a U-turn through a break in the median barrier 2 km ahead.

People aspire to the latest cars (that's great), want to drive at autobahn speed on our roads but without the discipline & consideration to other traffic the Germans show on their autobahns (MPEW experience).

Safety and well being of self and loved one's seems to have nothing to do with good driving habits, instead it seems to have been reduced to a combination of touching the steering wheel and one's forehead with the right hand 3 times and suspending 1 lemon and 3 chillies from the front bumper.For long journey's a coconut breaking ceremony makes the trip iron clad safe.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Nov 2010 10:40

rahulm wrote:There is a lot to write about but in this post I will only mention the tendency of majority of vehicles to drive at high beam all the time.

We at BR can write pages on this topic, but I feel to see a more disciplined drivers it would take India much more time

.

1) The mentality prevalent even now is that during a motor accident the bigger vehicle's driver is at fault. These cases dont even reach the courts as the man handling of the bigger vehicle's driver starts on the spot.
2) Motor Vehicle Acts and rules have too many sections and sub sections mandating requirements for road safety. How ever the common man driving the vehicle does not realise the significance of these provisions, and feels that they are only to harass him.
3) Driving schools in India, only teach a person how to drive (the quality of these lessons?? that is another story). That is how to operate the steering wheel, change gears and basic working of brake, accelerator etc. Driving etiquettes, basic road discipline etc. are totally ignored. In Bangalore for example only 14 driving sessions are there, and the new driver gets his license (party because of the connivance at the RTO driving school level). Defensive driving, optimum usage of head lamps etc. are totally ignored. Infact I dont know if the driving schools even think about the neccessity of these.

Perhaps in western countries the advantage was that they invented the motor car, they thought about having roads and super highways, and they framed the rules based on their experiences. Even common man was aware of all this, and so naturally they knew that the rules and guidelines were for their own ultimate good.

Read about an incident which happened in Kerala 2 months back. A young Police Sub Inspector in the afternoon stood at the town square to trap people driving under the influence of liquor. And soon he caught a family riding a bike. A kid placed on the petrol tank, hubby drunk and driving and wifey at the back. The SI took the drunk hubby into custody (for medical examination) and asked the kid and the wife to get back home in an auto rickshaw. It was not a surprise that the "people" (basically jobless idiots sitting in front of shops) sided with the drunken motor cycle rider. Their claim was that the SI was harassing the couple. No body even thought that the hubby was drunk and he may have met with the accident. Finally it went right up to the Dy.SP level (SI stuck to his guns and said he was just enforcing the law as it is written down), the drunken rider was charge sheeted, but as a negotiation move the SI was transferred to another PS in the same police sub-division. So when the so called "people" itself does not mind drunken driving, what point to have lengthly laws and acts drafted out?

Came back to say: And let us not even consider for a moment that IT-Vity folks are some how better aware of the situation and have more social awareness. The only advantage the IT-Vity folks have is a higher pay package which perhaps allow them to buy a car quickly. Etiquettes, driving sense or attitudes are exactly similar to that of the common man in India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Nov 2010 10:58

totally agree with the last line - I have had people blow their horns at me due to ascending the ramps in *parking lot* of my employer at a speed too slow for the liking of these self-important rabbits. also commercial and BMTC type bus drivers who have sturdy vehicles and dont have to pay for damage tend to take a lot of liberties and 'play rough'.

commercial long haul truck drivers I have found quite predictable and non aggressive. local trucks and sand trucks tend to play fast and loose.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Nov 2010 11:15

All good points particularly the prevalent learner driver standards and licensing procedures.

Driving standards are higher than India even in countries that did not invent the car, SoKo, Japan, Malaysia, Thailand are examples. Singapore is a great example.

I often make the point in front of school children in schools that I visit that we have 2 parallel systems of justice in India; legal and social.The ground reality is we don't have a "uniform justice system UJS" if I may use that term. Unfortunately, the social systems seems to largely prevail at the street level whereas it should actually be the legal system. There are many reasons for this.

This existence of the social justice and the gap between it the legal system is a cause for concern.

The law has to be enforced and cannot be disregarded because of public opinion. The Law's greatest strength is that it has the ability to pass judgement in favour of 1 person even if majority of the public have a contrary view.

At least in Pune, driving on the wrong side was less prevalent a decade ago than today to the point where the offending driver would get stared at. These days its become common to the point no body raises an eye brow, not even the police, who themselves drive on the wrong side.

Sustained public education would be a good start.

Concurrently, although, the issue is complex the following technology based initiatives can be used to shape errant road behaviour and mitigate the existing situation to an extent:

1. Red light camera's at intersections. This is established & mature technology. Will help with people jumping red lights and endangering themselves and others who are going through green lights.
2. Fixed radar speed camera's including averaging speed cameras systems. Must on Express ways and inter city roads. Also a good idea on major city roads. This is also mature and established technology. Will help with drivers speeding signposted speed limits.
3. Pedestrian operated red lights at all zebra crossing because zebra crossing have no meaning in India. Point 1 above is important for this to provide pedestrians a safe crossing. Right now pedestrians play with their lives in trying to cross the road.
4. Magnetic loop sensor operated traffic lights for side streets. Such systems align well with traffic demand than timed signals which are demand insensitive.

For 1,2 & 3 above, computerised registration and licence databases are foundational.

Corruption on the street reduces as enforcer-violator person to person contact opportunities reduce. Automation enables this reduction.

For a start, if we can automate the fines workflow (also established technology) for speeding and red light offences eliminating the police on the street, it would be a move in the right direction. (E.g. getting refunds on cancelled tickets booked on credit cards longer was an issue after IRCTC's website refund workflow eliminated the humans involved in the refund process).

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Nov 2010 14:08

Unless people feel the pain, they won't change. What's the first thing that FOB's get as advice when they land in massa? Don't eff with the law, it costs a lot of money and other pain.

And enforcement has to have as little govt folks involved as possible, to prevent corruption in the system. I am all for fixing cameras and automating penalty systems so people have an incentive to follow at least basic rules of stopping at intersections, driving within speed limits.

Having done extensive driving in early 2000s, I was shocked at the drastic change in driving culture when I drove in India again in 2009. High beams were rampant...I figured a way to keep polarised sunglasses on when there was a high beam coming up..it lessened the glare and after the vehicle passed, take glasses off.

The Indian's virtues are all left at the door when he leaves the house.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Nov 2010 15:35

rahulm wrote:For 1,2 & 3 above, computerised registration and licence databases are foundational.

Totally agree. AFAIK the licensing procedure is now pretty much computerised in most of the states, but it is not uniform and not a central level. Secondly in cities like Bangalore, maintaining the database with the correct data is very very difficult. I say this from my personal experience. Today if I jump a red signal, and the police send a summons to the address in the RTO database, it is going to reach a home where I stayed 5 years back. As of now there is no incentive for any one to update the address on a frequent basis.

One thing which may be simpler to do is to share the information of violations with the various Insurance agencies. Insurance is some thing which most of the vehicles do have (because in case of an accident they all get monetory relief). And Insurance companies dont have any hassles in fighting a case in the courts. So every year irrespective of the state or city in which a person stays, he goes to pay his insurance premium. And the driver may have a heart attack that insurance premiums are jacked up because he jumped lots of signals in the last one year. He may take the idea that he would not even pay the Insurance premium, but that is only going to land him in further trouble.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 26 Nov 2010 09:01

Raja Bose wrote:Anybody test drove a Suzuki SX4 in India? How is it?

I am noticing an explosion of new model Beemers in Dilli - Billis getting Beemer discount or something?

We have an SX4. Good car, high ground clearance. 102bhp engine, decent fuel economy. Bad rear visibility though, and I would recommend you not try to stuff >2 people at the back.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Nov 2010 09:08

BhairavP wrote: We have an SX4. Good car, high ground clearance. 102bhp engine, decent fuel economy. Bad rear visibility though, and I would recommend you not try to stuff >2 people at the back.

I initialy thought you were saying in the boot.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Nov 2010 09:38

if you are looking in SX4 range, might consider waiting for the updated Ford Fiesta due next yr and the toyota Etios to be launched shortly.