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I don't have any conspiracy theory in mind, and I never claimed that I am an aeronautical expert. I had a doubt, I thought someone could clarify. I am only interested to know what was the amount of thrust generated. It seems curiosity has become a punishable offense these days
Without lack of any exercise of that gray matter inside the skull , spouting verbiage amounts to verbal vomit and frankly brings down the overall quality of the thread into a vortex of that sort gets generated when you press the flush button and all the "morning deposits" start swirling in that vortex before disappearing in a woosh!.
So, go back and read what you posted on "why the IL-76 engines smoke and therefore kaveri too should smoke" and that "IL 76 engines are generating thrust but Kaveri is not" etc,etc . Frankly to expect anyone to respond seriously to all that, when there was no exercise of 'em gray cells from your side is expecting too much.
nukavarapu wrote: It seems curiosity has become a punishable offense these days. People seem to like scoring points by putting sarcastic comments and trying to have a great laugh on someone who is less informed. Great going, keep it up!
Now you are doing a downhill ski. Please go back and read your own post before you play victim.
All that you needed to ask was: "Did the Kaveri really work? if it did what was the thrust?"
It takes a scathing sarcastic post for you to feel victimised - but you were quite happy to type out a paragraph of accusations. How come you feel it is "sarcastic" when I have agreed with you? Are you admitting that you disagree with yourself? I don't mean to be insulting - but your post was a shameful and insulting one. In my opinion. I know you were not insulting me - but that will not stop me from pointing it out.
How did you guys get that there's a higher thrust version being tested ? Nothing reported so far indicates that... can u help educate me ?
Next thing we know, this will become urban legend
My infrence was drawn from the links posted by Juggi and Saik. The first report suggests that the GTRE hopes to equip the LCA with Kaveri and the number of test flighst the powerplant has to under go both on the IL 76 and the Tejas. If the Kaveri meets all the test parameters for Tajas. Then it goes without saying that it is fit for service with IAF. The second link states the required thrust figures that have not being met by the Kaveri as of last year.
Putting 2 & 2 together. I inferred that the higher thrust powerplant was tested.
It will take sitll between 300 to 500 hs of flight testing for the engine to be ceritfied. Once done it ought to enter service with the IAF.
I am more sad at this.. just think that the Russians say, we can't get this tested in Russia. Would GTRE and GoI drop this puppy dead or construct the required testing facilities no matter it costs 100s of crores?
Objectives must be clearly drawn ahead, and we as a nation should stand for it success [Just think about Edison's attitude to get a light bulb working after failing thousands of time]. We are too reactive in nature for high technology aspect, especially in precision engineering. It is a struggle that has to be experienced to succeed.
Snecma will not give ToT rather supply the core, and this is no use for Kaveri versions. It is important that we jingos form an opinion to drive towards investment in home grown kaveri versions without firangi help.
unfortunately rasta roko is out of reach for many in the similar mode. If we can afford to move an Elephant, we can pay for mahout.
The little birdie who first broke the news about the successful Kaveri test flight also told me that he had urged the test team to go ahead and get through with another 50-100 hours of testing because the data from the test will put us in a mush stronger position while talking to Snecma.
My prediction is that until these Kaveri tests are over not much progress will occur in agreements with Snecma.
On the ECO core per the pdf here, it says proved only to about 20,000 or 90 odd kN. Now, IAF is asking much greater than that I hear somewhere near 100kN.
Hopefully, we get those test result data, and make a slow and steady progress to what our force really wants. It would be heart burning if Snecma partnership can't get us anything greater than 90kN after burner.
--
PS:
Someone please to explain / convert this Russkie English-
royfc wrote:
Date Posted 10 November 2010
India Tests Own Engine at Zhukovskiy
((Designated the Kaveri, the engine was fitted to an Il-76 and tested up to Mach 0.6 (690 kilometers per hour). It should produce 93 - 100 kilotons of thrust. Originally reported by Flightglobal. Not further translated.))
every time ANY component is modified (in shape or material) the "Kaveri" has to go through these (50-100) tests.
THEN, just to collect data, they will have to make some changes - to force data collection.
Here on out the issue is time, no longer money (which can be overcome by parallel processing: have many institutions conduction research in parallel).
IMHO, it would best serve if the SNEMCA effort is separated from this "data collection" effort. For, both are equally important in their own right. Just pay the piper - but make sure you get what you want.
narmad ji 4th pic is when they were putting the engine in the housing, you see the wing internals ? the gtre-drdo stencil may have been put just before the flight
shiv wrote:The little birdie who first broke the news about the successful Kaveri test flight also told me that he had urged the test team to go ahead and get through with another 50-100 hours of testing because the data from the test will put us in a mush stronger position while talking to Snecma.
My prediction is that until these Kaveri tests are over not much progress will occur in agreements with Snecma.
In any case, there is no hurry also. AMCA is very far off and by the time 150 engine ordered for LCA Mark-2 are over, it will be 2025, so the earliest we need the engine would be 2020-25
DRDO plans to conduct nearly 60 test flights in the next couple of months to gauge engine reliability, safety and airworthiness.
“Now we will try out different Mach numbers and at different altitudes. The engine will come back to India after five months so that we can carry out further tests. We are aggressively conducting the flight-test campaign,” Mohan added.
vic wrote:
In any case, there is no hurry also. AMCA is very far off and by the time 150 engine ordered for LCA Mark-2 are over, it will be 2025, so the earliest we need the engine would be 2020-25
every time ANY component is modified (in shape or material) the "Kaveri" has to go through these (50-100) tests.
THEN, just to collect data, they will have to make some changes - to force data collection.
Here on out the issue is time, no longer money (which can be overcome by parallel processing: have many institutions conduction research in parallel).
IMHO, it would best serve if the SNEMCA effort is separated from this "data collection" effort. For, both are equally important in their own right. Just pay the piper - but make sure you get what you want.
No short cuts. No fudging in research, etc.
That is why we need to manufacture a jet engine with out exotic materials like SCb and get the kaveri to do some work outside the lab. Even if the MTBF is as low as 700 hrs (approx a month) as aux or any prime over, thast fine , we will learn lot more than keeping it waiting for to be cutting edge...
we need some thingof our own engine. Damn the NoKo guys are doing wonders with their Nuke power (LWR reactors with out any outside help)...
vic wrote:
In any case, there is no hurry also. AMCA is very far off and by the time 150 engine ordered for LCA Mark-2 are over, it will be 2025, so the earliest we need the engine would be 2020-25
If you consider this is some what true, you may start your longi da..
DDM wrote:The engine was tested from take-off to landing and flew for a period of over one hour up to at an altitude of 6000m at a speed of 0.6 mach in its maiden flight.
If IAF has even a little commitment to indigenous defence R&D then it will order-mandate LCA based LIFT-AJT powered on current Kaveri, from say 2020 onwards or so. This will keep indigenous research alive and motivated, simultaneoulsy it will prevent obstruction of any imports. If we are importing 1960s tech hawk then 1980s tech LIFT-LCA should be good enough
Last edited by vic on 26 Nov 2010 10:00, edited 1 time in total.
recently the HAL wind tunnel facility has been quite active after a long hiatus. could be kaveri could be AMCA could be clearing of cobwebs..who knows.
Singha wrote:recently the HAL wind tunnel facility has been quite active after a long hiatus. could be kaveri could be AMCA could be clearing of cobwebs..who knows.
Could be AMCA but what about UCAV? LCA Mark-2? RTA? MRTA? MLH? LoH?
Wasn't the MCA supposed to a have a higher dry thrust "variant" of the Kaveri?
Right now the existing thrust is not meeting LCA requirements. Kaveri had a spec on paper which they could not achieve due to various reasons. If we baseline the thrust required for AMCA as approximately equal to a GE414's thrust, isnt it prudent to design a "variant" from ground up?
IMHO, just as we are banking on technologies from the Pak-Fa to enrich our AMCA, its time we bank on whatever technology the french are providing to create a family of engines. The RM talking about increasing indigenous content, should'nt we be developing (atleast planning) for a whole bunch of engines to refurbish our Jags, Mirages and Sukhois, ALH/LCH etc?
The LCA may have outgrown the Kaveri, but is it possible to design a fighter or a military aircraft / platform around the current Kaveri if it finally becomes successful?
Can we have like a A-10 warthog tankbuster with a Kaveri type engine? Can the Kaveri engine power a civilian airliner? or a regional jet?
I know there are applications in the marine arena already, but is a smaller LCA or even a trainer built around a Kaveri a viable fighting aircraft?
The backbone of our strike formation, Jaguars are powered by the SDRE 27.0KN/37.5KN (with reheat) Adour engines. Why are some engines more SDRE than others? If Kaveri has indeed achieved 65KN/81KN with reheat then IMHO all that is stopping Kaveri from being productionalized is the reliability. Once that is proven it should be possible to build a decent aircraft around Kaveri. Now whether we are sensible enough to do that or whether we decide to wait until Kaveri outclasses every single engine that's out there is kweschun.
Added later: Kailash, IIRC we were also banking on Su30 TOT to enrich/enhance the Kaveri program. That hasn't gone anywhere it seems. I am not really hopeful on the Snecma JV or MMRCA JV or PAKFA JV or <insert your favourite vendor/aircraft> JV.
Gagan wrote:The LCA may have outgrown the Kaveri, but is it possible to design a fighter or a military aircraft / platform around the current Kaveri if it finally becomes successful?
Can we have like a A-10 warthog tankbuster with a Kaveri type engine? Can the Kaveri engine power a civilian airliner? or a regional jet?
I know there are applications in the marine arena already, but is a smaller LCA or even a trainer built around a Kaveri a viable fighting aircraft?
The Warthog will be able to function effectively only in an environment where the air defenses of the adversary are sanitized. A relatively slow moving 'sitting duck' one might say.Against a manpad rich environment i dont think it would last long.PK and China has quite effective air defenses built around their armored formations. Helos are more effective for counter insurgency and terrorist attacks as long as they dont have SAMs !
As shiv pointed, GoI must wait for the 50-100 Kaveri flying tests at Gromov institute, before giving a green signal to Snecma. You all know what real firangs and their agents want, and what the actual requirement folks and brjingos should go after.
Gagan wrote:The LCA may have outgrown the Kaveri, but is it possible to design a fighter or a military aircraft / platform around the current Kaveri if it finally becomes successful?
Can we have like a A-10 warthog tankbuster with a Kaveri type engine? Can the Kaveri engine power a civilian airliner? or a regional jet?
I know there are applications in the marine arena already, but is a smaller LCA or even a trainer built around a Kaveri a viable fighting aircraft?
kit wrote:The Warthog will be able to function effectively only in an environment where the air defenses of the adversary are sanitized. A relatively slow moving 'sitting duck' one might say.Against a manpad rich environment i dont think it would last long.PK and China has quite effective air defenses built around their armored formations. Helos are more effective for counter insurgency and terrorist attacks as long as they dont have SAMs !
Very true ! But jingoes won't like it. They have their heart set on A-10s and Su-25s. Also how effective these planes will be in mountains is anybody's guess. The role of CAS will be taken over by Rustom variants
Really, if the Kaveri comes through, it should be put to use.
There needs to be a more powerful derivative to fly on a LCA/AMCA
And there needs to be a Marine version
And there needs to be a version suited / downsized for Cruise missile use.
And there needs to be a version for the Helos, and the MBTs
And finally there needs to be a plane designed around the Kaveri - Doesn't matter if it is a spy plane, an EW plane, a trainer etc, but there needs to be an aircraft designed around the Kaveri.
