Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 26 Nov 2010 03:22

This one is more hilarious than one above.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Nov 2010 03:46

Tanaji wrote:Have you noticed that she allowed herself to be interrogated by ED for 7 hours straight? IIRC she is based in UK and was in UK when the scam broke. ...

Tanaji garu, what do you mean by she "allowed" herself to be interroigated by ED? Is it like Sanjaydutt "allowed" Maha police to interrogate him or Kasab "allowed" special investigation team to interrogate him?

Can you pls provide a proof that she was out of the country when the scam broke. That would help clear some doubts please...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Nov 2010 03:47

amit wrote:Tanaji is spot on. Too well connected on all sides to be prosecuted. From Raja to NaMo!

This is where Rahul Mehta stands apart. Everyone else on this forum, including me, have some favorites.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 26 Nov 2010 05:19

13 applicants for 2G spectrum licence had prior information:

Quoting the Comptroller and Auditor-General's report, Mr. Bhushan said: “It was noticed by the CAG that 13 applicants were ready with demand drafts, and [they] even managed [to secure] bank guarantees. Evidently, these applicants had advance information about the issue of this notification by the DoT, which enabled them to … draw demand drafts and prepare other relevant documents [in advance] for complying with the LoI [Letter of Intent] conditions, in spite of the change in the time limit for compliance from 15 days to about half-a-day.”

Justice Singhvi told Mr. Venugopal: “The CAG report shows the involvement of various persons. Unitech and Swan, which got licences, transferred them to others within a few days. The CBI had this information before it. Why was no one questioned? When illegality has been prima facie established, why no FIR was registered against them.”

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Nov 2010 06:08

JwalaMukhi wrote:
Muppalla wrote: Why should we even blame the business and their associates? The easier logic is bribe-givers are all wrong hence the corporate is enemy. Corporate competetions and cutting each other to get a best deal are all fair. Without a bribe nothing moves and let us be practial. Now someone will jump and say we all have to fight this. Agreed but how? To me it is like a staircase and the system is at 10th step and if I try to get to the 1st step one directly I will fall down and become loser. We need to fight it out step by step.

From my perspective:
(1) Asking the entire population to not pay bribes and fight it out everyday is ridiculous and impractical.
(2) Asking the entire corporate to be fair and don't lobby or bribe is ridiculous and impractical.

Fight should be mainly (1) Political corruption and then if that comes to significant control then (2) Corruption in babus and employees corridor can be tackled.
Muppalla garu, agree with your perspective. The day to day corruption needs to be fought at a different level. The politicos are given the custody of large wealth of the nation. When custodians falter and sell the wealth for a song, because it yields them few silver coins then it becomes a humongous problem. The custodians turn hostile and start looting the public exchequer is when a nation turns to a banana republic. The custodians are generally a cabal and those in the corridors of power have to have lot higher standards than mango man. But it is a systematic issue, where the system is rigged to reward those who are corrupt. As long as system is set up to reward the dishonest and punish the honest, it will generally tend to be a banana republic.

The systematic correction needs to start at the top. Just saying the guy at the top is of impeccable integrity will not cut it. The cabal he/she is running is also crucial and has to live up to the standards. Instead, we see personally someone is not corrupt and hence is not responsible. The responsibility squarely lies with the leader of the pack be it getting the babus or the ministries to do what needs to be done. Hence, it is paramount that the cabal has ethics that is above board. Unfortunately, it is being run as comedy show, with no responsibility being taken at any stage. The responsibility cleverly is shifted to the common man when it becomes inconvenient.

Totally agreed. Practically MMS just cannot do anything and also survive even if he wants to cleanup. As I said above he himself even if wants to cannot jump from 10th step to 1st step. The rot at the top is too deep. How deep? Read the Bofors saga that I posted again and again just to get the glimpse of straospheric-levels of power that the top folks yield.

By the way Bofors is just nothing compared to what happened later. When the congress party is in opposition Iraq oil scandal happened. You know what, Congress party was part of the shady deal as an entity. Natwar Singh was just a conduit. Read in detail the following links.
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2005/ ... 168-m.html
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2005/ ... on-of.html

The purpose I am trying to bring in Bofors and then volkers is to give a glimpse of massive levels of networks, cartels, mafias that are built and are working. My point is again there is nothing that we can do as long as the fight is not focussed to destroy the India's portions and India's contributions to these networks. From my point any discussion about corruption eradication will be just a page-after-page fun here in BR unless someone can put a strategy to eradicate that.

In my personal view if a totally new corruption network replaces the old order then also it is a step down from my 10 step theory.. For example taking a partisan view if TDP-BJP-Yeddi-NaMo-Nitish-Laloo-Jaya and others together forms a new swindling network and could effectivly (should ensure it does'n get back) shutdown longest surviving network that is also an achievement. It may be getting India from 10th step to 9th step. This new one will be in a formative stages so it is easy to destroy. If not get to next set.

RM's drafts, Anna Hazare's fasts and LokSatta's whistles are not going to change anything in India. Just see the history what is bang for the buck for all these gentlemen. Not even a drop in the ocean. I will never even waste my time on such activities. I am far better off to be on BR rather doing useless nonsense

.

The only guy who really acheived a lot (really a lot) in the entire history is though we hate is Late Shri V. P.Singh. Period. He is the first one and the last one who really tried to break the network. The later folks are all bhashans but not realistic.

This thread has so much fun. BRF seems to be not that far away from our media. A lot of folks are showing an EQUAL EQUAL showbiz that our media does. When there is a serious issue against congress system immediately the media has to bring NaMo into picture. The whole stuff has to be deflected using "all politicians and all parties are same". They are all scoundrels etc. For example - One of the persons in the Radia's tapes Suheil Seth. He came on TV when Taj was burning and he called MMS, Advani, NaMo etc with such names for which BRadmins would have immediately banned him. He did not say anything about Sonia. By the way he seems to be another Radia type in the system.

Talking about BJP's corruption or TDP's corruption is just a joke. I only wish them that they can catchup a little bit more and also faster. Otherwise they won't even have a fighting chance against the cartels as we are seeing it today. They are the cheapest idiots that are getting caught for 20,000 rupees for question hour questions. The president of BJP caught for taking what (just a lakh rupees). Izzat bhi nahi hai. Stupid Yeddi has to negotiate 10 days and a visit to Sai Baba for a stupid 20 crore stuff. Atleast if they are caught for taking 2000 crore would have some respect. I don't understand when these idiots will grow up and give some competetion to the real networks and cartels.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Nov 2010 06:37

Muppalla wrote:
The only guy who really acheived a lot (really a lot) in the entire history is though we hate is Late Shri V. P.Singh. Period. He is the first one and the last one who really tried to break the network. The later folks are all bhashans but not realistic.

VP SIngh used the media and became the tool of the west when he had to take that help. This network is one over the other. You cannot break it until you become like PRC

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 26 Nov 2010 07:05

This is where Rahul Mehta stands apart. Everyone else on this forum, including me, have some favorites.

Err He has a favorite too ... Rahul mehta

(ducks out)

amit · Post by **amit** » 26 Nov 2010 07:26

Muppalla,

That was nice story and made for good reading but I think you blew it by portraying VP Singh as the savior. Could you point to some things he did in his three years or so in power which points to that? I understand you may not be able to give direct linear correlations but indirect evidence would do. You gotta to remember there are folks in BRF who remember things from that long time back. You'd be doing a great service if you could jog their memories.

For example during a election campaign in UP, V P Singh whipped out from his pocket what was then a really cool gadget, a small electronic organiser, and said all the information about the Bofors scam was in that device and once he became PM he would expose everything in two weeks time. We all know how that went.

IMO VP's greatest contribution to India was the Mandalisation of society.

Mind you I don't necessarily disagree with you about power brokers and cartels but to suggest that INC is omnipresent and omnipotent in all that is quite a bit of stretch. You seem to have forgotten the many years INC was out of the power centers in the 1980s and 1990s. Even in the early part of this decade (including a bit of the last century) INC was not in power for six years. You want us to believe that even out of power the INC exercised more power - or that these cartels kowtowed to it - than the Party in power? If that's the case it surely paints a sorry picture about the ability of the parties which were in power when the INC was in opposition. As does the fact that despite all the facts about Bofors - like who took what amount of money when and which bank account was used etc - being known to bloggers and other evangelists nobody could really bring the Gandhis to book when non-Congress parties and coalitions were in power. If we accept the fact that the Gandhis are the fulcrum on which this power broking and cartel rests on, the best way to destroy it would have been to expose the Gandhis, don't you think so? Surely the patriots who were in power during non INC years knew that?

The fact that it didn't happen doesn't necessarily imply the Gandhis are not corrupt and they didn't take money in Bofors. What it does imply is that what Rahul Mehta says has a kernel of truth, even though it gets BJP shills in a tizzy. Corruption is all pervasive and cuts across party lines and when the push comes to the shove all shades of political opinion will close rank. They will go so far (in terms of political point scoring) and not further. Too many skeletons in too many closets. Radia is just a sample of how wheeling dealing cuts across party lines.

PS: I also like the way you make a distinction of the level of corruption. Small amounts (of course in a relative way, if I could have gotten even one per cent of that I could retire) is OK but big amounts (taken obviously by INC and its chamchas) are not kosher. That could be construed to mean that not all corruption is bad, it gets a bad name only on the basis of who is corrupt.

amit · Post by **amit** » 26 Nov 2010 07:46

Acharya wrote:
Muppalla wrote:
The only guy who really acheived a lot (really a lot) in the entire history is though we hate is Late Shri V. P.Singh. Period. He is the first one and the last one who really tried to break the network. The later folks are all bhashans but not realistic.
VP SIngh used the media and became the tool of the west when he had to take that help. This network is one over the other. You cannot break it until you become like PRC

Acharya,

You have a point but do note that to become like PRC you have to form another cartel, one that is potentially far more dangerous than the one you would destroy. PRC is run by, probably, the most powerful and ruthless cartel the world has ever seen.

Caveat: When I make that comment about the PRC cartel I'm excluding all secret societies and brotherhoods that have existed from when time began.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Nov 2010 07:54

amit wrote:
Acharya,

You have a point but do note that to become like PRC you have to form another cartel, one that is potentially far more dangerous than the one you would destroy. PRC is run by, probably, the most powerful and ruthless cartel the world has ever seen.

Caveat: When I make that comment about the PRC cartel I'm excluding all secret societies and brotherhoods that have existed from when time began.

That is understood implicitly. PRC is an example being of equivalent size to show how things are managed by others. India has a different historical experience. But if the core is damaged then it is difficult. It needs multiple levels of watchdogs
BRF knows you liking for one particular party but it goes without saying that the core takes around 50 years when it starts withering. That is what we have today. We cant ignore the elephant in the room.

amit · Post by **amit** » 26 Nov 2010 08:00

Here's an interesting twist to the 2G corruption saga

Agencies probe 2G, house loan scam link

At least nine companies that were awarded telecom licences and 2G spectrum are not-so-well-known property developers, some of whom never had anything to do with telecom before.

Each of these companies furnished bank guarantees worth R1,600 crore in a matter of 45 minutes on January 10, 2008. Some of these real estate companies that got 2G licences neither had the required paid-up capital, nor had they incorporated telecom-related business in their memorandum of association. “If they didn’t have adequate paid-up capital, how could they organise so much money at such short notice,” an official who did not wish to be identified rhetorically asked Hindustan Times.

Did this money come from the housing loan scam unearthed by the CBI on Wednesday, in which officials of public sector banks and home loan companies dished out loans to ineligible real estate firms after allegedly accepting bribes

In particular, investigators are examining the transactions of the DB group — a corporate group that investigators believe is promoted by a Maratha strongman — that holds a 45% stake in telecom company Etisalat DB.

DB Realty is among the major housing developers that seem to have received funds from housing finance companies, contravening existing norms.

Sources in the CBI said they are also looking into the possibility that investment firm Money Matters — three of whose executives, including chairman and managing director Rajesh Sharma, were arrested too along with the bankers — may have helped some companies raise money to get into the telecom sector.

Swan Telecom Pvt Ltd applied for a licence in March 2007 and was granted one in February 2008. It has changed its shareholding pattern at least four times since then.

Initially owned by Reliance Communications, it now belongs to a conglomerate whose largest holder, with 44.7% stake, is Etisalat, the UAE’s largest telecom company.

“DB Realty is a low-gearing company and its debt-equity ratio is 0.21,” a DB Group spokesperson told Hindustan Times in an emailed response. {Low gearing means that the group uses its own funds for operations as opposed to working capital loans}

“The company prefers private equity for project financing and takes minimum required construction loan. DB Realty does not have any direct or indirect shareholding in Etisalat DB Telecom Pvt Ltd or vice versa. DB Realty (has not given) any loan to Etisalat DB Telecom Pvt Ltd or vice versa.”

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 26 Nov 2010 08:06

from rediff poster
LATEST INDIAN SCAMS WITH THEIR WORTH OR PRICE

india can be appropriately renamed as 'scamia'.

01. 2G spectrum worth 1.69 lakh crores
02. CWG games fiasco in thousands crores
03. Madhu Koda CM jharkhand scam worth 8000 crores
04. IPL ghotala worth lakhs of crores
05. National games continuous delay worth crores
06. Satyam fiasco worth crores
07. ULIP insurance scam
08. Bofors weapons sabottage
09. Dairy animal chaaraa ghotaala
10. Stamp papers scams
11. Urea Scam
12. Kargil and Coffin Scam
13. Emaar Scam
14. Prostition and Sex Racket Scam
15. Kashmir Sex Racket Scam
16. Babri and Ram Mandir Scam
17. Land Acquistion Scams on name of dubious industries
18. Profident Fund Scam -> Current judges
19. Animal Fodder Scam
20. Ketan Parek Scam
21. Bansali Scam
22. Shoes Scam by Rafique Tejani and Daya
23. Nagarjuna Finance Scam
24. Dalmia Scam
25. UTI Scam
26. Uday Goyal Scam
27. Sanjay Agrawal Scam
28. LIC insurance scam
29. Kargil and Coffin Scam
30. Urea Scam
31. Adarsh society,
32. Harshad Mehta Scam
33.SuflamSujlam scam
34.Nano land of sanad scam.
35.Extortion racket of Gujart.
36.Advani Hawala...
37.Bangaroo laxman collecting funds for bjp..
38.KabutarBaji scam by Babubhai katara.
39.sanjay Joshi... Cd kand..
40.swiss bank account scam
41. Global Trust bank scam
42. Charminar Bank scam
43. Vasavi Bank scam.
44. Reddy brother's bellary mining scam

amit · Post by **amit** » 26 Nov 2010 08:09

Acharya wrote:BRF knows you liking for one particular party

Now are you speaking for the collective or for yourself?

Also do I take that as a badge of honor or should I go and hide behind the table in shame?

Boss your comment just goes to show how narrow and linear your thinking process is in this case. You're right, my liking is for only one particular party but that party happens to be India. I think India is far more important than INC, BJP and all the other parties there are.

Since I'm a supporter of India, I support any policy decisions, directions that will ensure a high growth rate for the next 20-30 years. Call it a curse of my training if you will but I happen to know that India is in a cusp of a demographic dividend and if we don't take advantage of that we'll be lost as a nation for ever. Today we are a poor nation full of young people. That is bad. But what is worse is to be a poor nation full of old people.

And for that reason I support any political party which looks at fast economic growth and I'd be perfectly happy if the BJP came to power since it has a economic growth agenda - in fact I would love to see NaMo as PM if that were possible.

By the same token I think that if the culprits of this 2G scam are not brought to book and if there are more scams that would affect our growth and if that's the case the INC must go.

Oh by the way its very Western to think in linear terms. That's why Bush could say you're either with us or against us.

Folks sorry for the ramble.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Nov 2010 08:11

amit wrote:
Since I'm a supporter of India, I support any policy decisions, directions that will ensure a high growth rate for the next 20-30 years.

Calm down. Nothing to get excited. We have seen the same India for the last 40 years and it has a good future. Nobody can take it away.

amit · Post by **amit** » 26 Nov 2010 08:13

Acharya wrote:
amit wrote:
Since I'm a supporter of India, I support any policy decisions, directions that will ensure a high growth rate for the next 20-30 years.
Calm down. Nothing to get excited. We have seen the same India for the last 40 years and it has a good future. Nobody can take it away.

Bro relax, it takes more than some post on BRF to get me worked up.

But it's good to see that you understand that despite many difference that we've had we play for the same side. Kya karega we are Argumentative Indians onlee. And not well disciplined Chinese drones.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 08:29

ShivaS wrote:
from rediff poster
LATEST INDIAN SCAMS WITH THEIR WORTH OR PRICE

india can be appropriately renamed as 'scamia'.

01. 2G spectrum worth 1.69 lakh crores
02. CWG games fiasco in thousands crores
03. Madhu Koda CM jharkhand scam worth 8000 crores
04. IPL ghotala worth lakhs of crores
05. National games continuous delay worth crores
06. Satyam fiasco worth crores
07. ULIP insurance scam
08. Bofors weapons sabottage
09. Dairy animal chaaraa ghotaala
10. Stamp papers scams
11. Urea Scam
12. Kargil and Coffin Scam
13. Emaar Scam
14. Prostition and Sex Racket Scam
15. Kashmir Sex Racket Scam
16. Babri and Ram Mandir Scam
17. Land Acquistion Scams on name of dubious industries
18. Profident Fund Scam -> Current judges
19. Animal Fodder Scam
20. Ketan Parek Scam
21. Bansali Scam
22. Shoes Scam by Rafique Tejani and Daya
23. Nagarjuna Finance Scam
24. Dalmia Scam
25. UTI Scam
26. Uday Goyal Scam
27. Sanjay Agrawal Scam
28. LIC insurance scam
29. Kargil and Coffin Scam
30. Urea Scam
31. Adarsh society,
32. Harshad Mehta Scam
33.SuflamSujlam scam
34.Nano land of sanad scam.
35.Extortion racket of Gujart.
36.Advani Hawala...
37.Bangaroo laxman collecting funds for bjp..
38.KabutarBaji scam by Babubhai katara.
39.sanjay Joshi... Cd kand..
40.swiss bank account scam
41. Global Trust bank scam
42. Charminar Bank scam
43. Vasavi Bank scam.
44. Reddy brother's bellary mining scam

Missing from this are minor "chit-fund" and other deposit scams that amount only to a few croes apiece. But the total money going around is thousands of crores.

Regulation of money flow in India is loose and it is loose because the wealthiest scamsters are the most powerful political bosses and they would all lose out if money flow is regulated. As long as people are losing in paise or in tens or occasionally thousands of Rupees, the scams get thousands of crores.

And here is one guy from my neighborhood. He is small fry, so he is in jail. 200 crores only
http://hubpages.com/hub/Srinivas-Shastr ... nvestments

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 26 Nov 2010 08:41

I gave Chit fund a clean chit as CBI/ED/DRI would eventually give the Gs

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Nov 2010 08:43

amit wrote:Muppalla,

That was nice story and made for good reading but I think you blew it by portraying VP Singh as the savior. Could you point to some things he did in his three years or so in power which points to that? I understand you may not be able to give direct linear correlations but indirect evidence would do. You gotta to remember there are folks in BRF who remember things from that long time back. You'd be doing a great service if you could jog their memories.

For example during a election campaign in UP, V P Singh whipped out from his pocket what was then a really cool gadget, a small electronic organiser, and said all the information about the Bofors scam was in that device and once he became PM he would expose everything in two weeks time. We all know how that went.

IMO VP's greatest contribution to India was the Mandalisation of society.

Do not get me wrong. I am no fan of VPS. I am student at that time and I know the pain of life. It was the worst social division that India has witnessed. He may have failed and he may not have been honest. Realistically he is just not competent enough to go after the cartels and destroy the networks. However, he is one who can pull out Rajiv Gandhi's coterie out of his influnece and they are never back. Arun Singh, Arun Nehru, Arif Mohammed Khan and I forgot few more names. That is in a way trying to break the "India side cartel". In fact V.P.Singh's mandalization inspite of its extreme bad effects is the real reason for Congress to not recover at all. The loss that he has done to INC is still there with 4 out of 243 in Bihar. Needless to say after VPS jhappad there in not a single government that is not a social coalition. All I am saying is he is the only one who even succeeded a little bit (probably 1 out of 10 on a scale).

A lot of urbanites including me fashionable abuse Laloo as some gawaad etc. He may have been brutal and created a complete goon based society in Bihar. However, I give recent Nitish's so called development victory to actually Laloo. He is first to really break the extreme-brutal-feudal societies stranglehold on Bihar's power. The first one who breaks the ice always gets maximum flak and will always be an unsung one and that is life. Both VPS and Laloo are same. I used to hate when I was a teenager but when I think back and analyze I definitely have some respect.

Mind you I don't necessarily disagree with you about power brokers and cartels but to suggest that INC is omnipresent and omnipotent in all that is quite a bit of stretch. You seem to have forgotten the many years INC was out of the power centers in the 1980s and 1990s. Even in the early part of this decade (including a bit of the last century) INC was not in power for six years. You want us to believe that even out of power the INC exercised more power - or that these cartels kowtowed to it - than the Party in power?

you are really funny on this one. From 1947 - 2010 INC was not in power for two and half years in 1977-1980 and then ONLY ELEVEN months under VP singh. I don't consider Charan Singh, Chandrasekhar, Dev Gowda, IKGujaral as non-INC government. They are supported by INC from outside. The realistic and the only non-INC government was that of ABV and that is just a total of SIX years. If one is honest, they will say that the realistic non-INC influnece on India was just that six years. By the way during that period being in opposition they could pull Iraq Oil (Volker report) scandal.

The parties that came to power in India does not have even wherewittal to even adjust before the sheer power of congress party. That is what I beleive and you can disagree with me.

If that's the case it surely paints a sorry picture about the ability of the parties which were in power when the INC was in opposition. As does the fact that despite all the facts about Bofors - like who took what amount of money when and which bank account was used etc - being known to bloggers and other evangelists nobody could really bring the Gandhis to book when non-Congress parties and coalitions were in power. If we accept the fact that the Gandhis are the fulcrum on which this power broking and cartel rests on, the best way to destroy it would have been to expose the Gandhis, don't you think so? Surely the patriots who were in power during non INC years knew that?

It is not bloggers. Bloggers are just referring to actual investigation reports. They are from GOI's Bofors reports and Volker's reports. They are just easy to refer and opposed to link 10 documents and compile from them. Regarding non-congress parties, yes it paints an extremely sorry picture. No disagreement on that. I pity the non-congress parties of India. I wrote similar above too

The fact that it didn't happen doesn't necessarily imply the Gandhis are not corrupt and they didn't take money in Bofors. What it does imply is that what Rahul Mehta says has a kernel of truth, even though it gets BJP shills in a tizzy. Corruption is all pervasive and cuts across party lines and when the push comes to the shove all shades of political opinion will close rank. They will go so far (in terms of political point scoring) and not further. Too many skeletons in too many closets. Radia is just a sample of how wheeling dealing cuts across party lines.

If all these parties including BJPs are expected to be sadhus and Anna Hazare types infront of cartels they will not be able to create even a "pitiable situation" that they are in. As I wrote above I am of the firm view they really need to catch up even if they can get to break the cartels. My point is that this whole EQUAL EQUAL only helps to keep the cartel running for ever and a best tactic for the cartels and its supporters and innocent crusaders like Rahul Mehta believe in it.

There is a saying in my mother tounge - mulluni mullutone theeyagalam which means "ghusgaya khante ko Khante se hi nikaal sakte" in raw Hindi. I don't know how to translate in English.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 26 Nov 2010 08:49

to catch a thief set a thief

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 08:52

ShivaS wrote:I gave Chit fund a clean chit as CBI/ED/DRI would eventually give the Gs

Electronic money and plastic money with tracking could help but this is where "India is a poor country" - the "masses cannot use plastic cards" comes in handy. Dealings in cash and kind are commonplace. If a man visits whorehouses and gets genital warts he will not stop the visits - he will only get the warts treated. Same way when ISI benefits from the cash-based financial system a few people are arrested but the system must go on. Need to keep on visiting the whorehouse.

Among the most naive people in India are the "IT wallahs" because they are all paid what they think are "high salaries". The money is paid directly to banks and tax is deducted. Every paisa is accounted for. They drive fancy cars and are removed from the system where the real money exists. Cash. In currency notes, land, and businesses.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 26 Nov 2010 09:04

When the IT wallahs get corrupted and share well guarded IT secrets of how to unlock bank accounts and transfer money surreptiously .............there will come a day when suddenly many swiss banks will be empty?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:07

If you look at the way politician siphon money from the system - there are a few common streams
1) Land - sale of land.
2) Licence raj: 2-G license is a variant of license raj
3) Transport, minerals and taxes on goods and services.

As someone pointed out India's "socialist system" where the government is supposed to "work for the poor" comes in really handy. The system is so decrepit that a lot of changes have to come in. catching someone in 2G or even brining Sonia down which is a good idea will not clean up the system Some other guy will just make use of it. I am reminded of a story told by an uncle of mine who used to work for a big industrial house. A representative of the company delivered cash amounting to one crore in a suitcase to Rajiv Gandhi in Sriperumbudur just a few hours before he died. eh cash was placed at a particular spot in some house/guest house/govt house. In hours RG was dead so the company rep went back to check the cash. It had vanished. Such stories are there in thousands.

There is a very definite nexus between large business houses wanting licences for mineral exploration or needing land for industry and government bigwigs. I know of teh birth of a scam when an industrial house approached Dharam Singh (former CM of Karnataka) with a 15000 crore proposal to set up a cement plant. What was required were the licences and permissions. This deal did not go through - but typically a few tens or hundreds of crores exchange hands.

I hope and pray that the 2G scam will never die down and serve as a reminder of how this country works. But I despair because so many other scams die down and nothing changes. This too will die down.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:15

sanjeevpunj wrote:When the IT wallahs get corrupted and share well guarded IT secrets of how to unlock bank accounts and transfer money surreptiously .............there will come a day when suddenly many swiss banks will be empty?

Indians with thousands of crores abroad want to transfer it back. It is not easy. Dawood Ibrahim or Gulf Shekh banks are possible routes but both will retain a share of the loot.

I come from a social class and background that believed that going abroad to make an honest living made one rich and that wealth could come honestly. And although I returned my relatives and friends remain abroad. I now know that although they are well off their wealth after 25 to 30 years of honest hard work and savings of (in some cases) US$ 2 million is peanuts. USD 2 million is 9 crores - an amount that a low official or clerk at the local corporation office will make and use to build 2 houses, a commercial complex and a "farmhouse". Honest people live in sad fantasy land - but only honest people are interested in cleaning the system.

India has 1.3 lakh declared dollar millionaires. The undeclared ones will be 50 times that number. Our financial system allows the hiding of wealth, giving the appearance of poverty. The fact that poverty also exists is a good cover for this.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 26 Nov 2010 09:15

What has IT wallahs got to do with scams here?

Whats up doc?

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 26 Nov 2010 09:18

Rahul Mehta wrote:Raghavendra,

No need to shout. We are all hearing you. Your allegation that I am Congress shill only shows that you want to silence everyone who exposes corruption of ALL. Looks like you want people talk about corruption of Sonia, MMS but insist that we must stay mum on corruption of ABV, NaMo, Pramod, Jetley, Shourie etc. That would make you a BJP shill.

Dont act deaf, then i wont need to raise my voice. This is the 2G scam dude, by bringing irrelevant topics you are showing who you work for and if you are so concerned about scams by other people open up new topics and make allegations there not here. Thanks for calling me BJP shills even thou i am not. Better to support patriots rather than lick italian waitresses boots, shame congress nazis

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:21

ShivaS wrote:What has IT wallahs got to do with scams here?

Whats up doc?

Nothing. They know the least about scams. They are the most honest bunch India has produced. They are India's taxpayers. Unless you are talking about "Income Tax" IT wallahs who are also "IT" of a different sort.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:30

I don't know the meaning of "shill" and I have not checked dictionary.com. It may be OK to have a party interest in this scam, but unless interest in the scam goes beyond party interest, future scams cannot be stopped.

Any post in the Indian government gives some power over money that is misused. Other than Rahul Mehta I do not see any party or individual who is talking about how the financial system can be tweaked to prevent its easy misuse.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Nov 2010 09:35

shiv wrote:I don't know the meaning of "shill" and I have not checked dictionary.com. It may be OK to have a party interest in this scam, but unless interest in the scam goes beyond party interest, future scams cannot be stopped.

Any post in the Indian government gives some power over money that is misused. Other than Rahul Mehta I do not see any party or individual who is talking about how the financial system can be tweaked to prevent its easy misuse.

Who will allow that to happen when everyone is enjoying the spill. Will the government or the person trying to change survive? Again there needs a leadership who can take it up at the higher level. There are instances where someone tired and lost the cause.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:39

Muppalla wrote: My point is that this whole EQUAL EQUAL only helps to keep the cartel running for ever and a best tactic for the cartels and its supporters

BRF doing equal equal means nothing. The politcal parties are themselves doing equal equal. Under the circumstances what we do on here is just drum beating.

If anything brings Rajmata and Yuvraj down it will be Bihar type miracles. Not 2G scam. Karnataka is a self goal but there is no alternative to Yeddy. But someone will have to be be found because the other parties are worse.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2010 09:48

Muppalla wrote:
shiv wrote:
Any post in the Indian government gives some power over money that is misused. Other than Rahul Mehta I do not see any party or individual who is talking about how the financial system can be tweaked to prevent its easy misuse.
Who will allow that to happen when everyone is enjoying the spill. Will the government or the person trying to change survive? Again there needs a leadership who can take it up at the higher level. There are instances where someone tired and lost the cause.

I don't think any sudden changes can occur. Only governments change suddenly. But there has to be a consistent call for honesty. In that sense - if BRF is to do any service - I believe it would be to make sure that no scam ever dies down.

There are too many vested interests. In fact just look at Congress. They needed DMK support. DMK demanded that x, y and z should be accommodated in government. Now x is central to this scam. The government has sacrificed X and is washing its hands off. The problem here is that no matter how much you smear Congress they will try and pass it off on to Raja and DMK unless firm links can be made between Congress bigwigs and this scam. Jayalalitha actually helped them here. With Raja out of office they will say "Investigations are going on" Those will go on until then next elections. If BJP wins then they can try and accelerate the investigation - but if their interest was only in winning then they will not bother. They will not bother until the election time after that when they will try and accelerate the investigation to use against Congress. These are all typical, time worn things. None of these things will make a difference to the system.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 26 Nov 2010 10:32

ha ha ha ha ha.

Learn from Congress, Sonia to ‘other parties’

ALLAHABAD: Congress president and party-led UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi on Thursday announced a zero-tolerance policy of her party and said that while the 125-old party had been quick to take action against the guilty on all occasions, many governments led by other parties thrived on the menace.

However, she did not name any party.

But a reference to Uttar Pradesh and ‘governments led by other parties’ pointed to Chief Minister Mayawati’s Bahujan Samaj Party rule in the state, and could be meant to refer to Karnataka as well, which is under the BJP.

About action taken against corruption, she indirectly referred to the sacking of former Telecom Minister A Raja, Commonwealth Games chief Suresh Kalmadi and change of party government leadership in Maharashtra in the wake of Adarsh Society scam.

Urging all the Opposition parties to follow course, Sonia said: “I would like to appeal to all other political parties to adopt the same sternness in dealing with corruption as the Congressled UPA Government has been doing.”

Thursday is also the centenary of the Indian National Congress. This is Sonia’s first major appearance in UP after the general election results, which saw the Congress making significant gains in the state.

With such brazenness too. Bravo, Signora.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 26 Nov 2010 10:42

^^ Aaction will be taken to finally let off.

It's official, Suresh Kalmadi let-off
25 Nov 2010, 1700 hrs IST
This is the most damning proof so far of the massive cover up to shield Commonwealth Games Organising Committee’s Chairman Suresh Kalmadi. The Central Bureau of Investigation’s (CBI) FIR in the AM Films scam case shockingly does not name the man responsible for the entire mess- Kalmadi himself. This shocking let off is despite how TIMES NOW has relentlessly been proving Kalmadi’s involvement in the scam. The e-mail has Kalmadi’s signatures on the papers okaying 25000 pounds to AM Films and Cars. In fact, the note by Sanjay Mohindroo who is now arrested says that Kalmadi had ordered to release payments immediately.

But the most recent is this proof, his key aide TS Darbari, now in custody of the CBI also nailing his former boss. A letter written by Darbari to the CBI Director stating in no unclear terms that Kalmadi was in the know how of all details regarding the AM Films contract and in fact he was the main fraudster. TIMES NOW had first exposed the scam on the 31st of July soon after Kalmadi denied the allegations and even went to the extent of threatening to sue TIMES NOW . But your channel continuously exposed Kalmadi's role in the scam till finally his aides were arrested.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Its-official-Sur ... 359154.cms

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Nov 2010 11:04

I can't copy it full as it is too long. Hope Tehelka keeps this link. This is like a full biography and someone should make a movie on her. Fantastic lady.
Niira Radia

She grew with the BJP, made inroads into the Congress inner circle, and vibed well with the CPM. But she alienated her own staff with her workaholism, constantly egging them on with the Nike tagline, “Just do it”. Her personal wealth is whispered to be around Rs. 500 crore but that is difficult to establish.

Interestingly, in what started out as a telephone tap by the IT Department’s Directorate General of Investigations to probe violations related to TDS (tax deducted at source) has turned into a fullscale, multi-agency inquiry by the government about whether Radia is so embedded in Delhi’s politics that she can make/unmake ministers or manipulate government policy to suit powerful corporate clients.

What the ED is trying to establish is the money trails that seem to wind through her corporate communications venture. Knowing this, she avoided, on medical grounds, the first set of notices sent to her, using the time to get politicians in Uttar Pradesh to silence the bureaucrats from that state’s cadre who are investigating the scam. But no one wants to get embroiled in the Rs. 1.76 lakh crore telecom scam.

The CBI is also probing what it calls her nexus with a slew of former bureaucrats whose brains she picked to bend rules to the benefit of her clients. These included conglomerates like the Tatas, Reliance, ITC and Mahindras, and big-bucks entities like Lavasa, Star TV, Unitech, Elder Health Care, Haldia Petrochemicals, Emami and the HIV/AIDS initiative of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

This week, one of her confidants, Pradip Baijal, the former telecom and disinvestment secretary who started the country’s much-hyped disinvestment process, was questioned by the CBI for over four hours for his alleged investments in African nations like Guinea and Senegal.

“The charges are serious,” admits ED’s Rajeshwar Singh, refusing to reveal details. CBI and ED officials told TEHELKA that there is enough evidence to prove Radia’s links with retired bureaucrats like Ajay Dua, former secretary, Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion (DIPP), CM Vasudev, former finance secretary, SK Narula, former Airports Authority of India chairman, and Akbar Jung, the former civil aviation secretary.

Worse, some of the conversations link Radia to Anil Agarwal of the London-based Vedanta group that has drawn flak for violating environmental norms at its billion-dollar mining projects in Orissa’s Lanjigarh district.

Tellingly, the tapes also establish her links with Sunil Arora, an IAS officer based in Rajasthan and used by Radia to gain access to his batchmates in various ministries. The conversations are a part of the CBI notes to the Supreme Court.

Arora, who sacrificed his second tenure as chairman and managing director (CMD) of Indian Airlines by attempting to blow the whistle on Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel, seems to have opened many doors for Radia across India. During his tenure as the CMD of Indian Airlines (2003-05), seven aircraft leases were found to have been channelled to companies that had Radia’s front companies acting as agents. “We have evidence that substantial payments were made to Arora’s Meerut-based brother by Radia’s company,” said Akshat Jain, a senior IT official.

For the record, Niira was born to Sudesh and Iqbal Memon, a trader who was born a Hindu, on 19 November 1960. Niira — the extra ‘i’ was added on the advice of numerologists — and her family had to flee Africa around the time of the fall of Idi Amin. Once touted as an emerging competitor to infamous gun dealer Adnan Khashoggi, Memon changed track in London and opened an aviation lease broking business.

The natural heir to the family business, Radia also worked with Scotland Yard on a job-to-job basis providing escort cover to its young recruits. In London, she married Janak Radia of a wealthy trading family. At some point, she was also marestried to the grandson of Rao Birendra Singh, Haryana’s chief minister in the 1960s, and went by the name of Niira Yadav.

In 1996, Radia fled to India from UK after a host of shell companies with paid-up capital as low as £100 went bust and came under scrutiny for money laundering.

There are many who claim Radia still nurses a grudge against Jet Airways head Naresh Goyal and Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel for bringing her flights of fancy to naught. While Radia never got security clearance as the promoter for Crown Air, she came in close contact with the then aviation minister Ananth Kumar of the BJP.

Sources in the BJP leadership point out that Radia decided that Crown Air had reached a dead end when she got clear signals from the PMO that Kumar was under a cloud. Nevertheless, Radia managed to get a large tract of land at unbelievably low prices during the NDA regime in the name of Sudesh Foundation, a charity in her late mother’s memory.

It is believed that the late BJP leader Pramod Mahajan played a crucial role in helping the Tata-led management invest Rs. 1,200 crore of VSNL’s reserves in the ailing Tata Teleservices. Radia, after three-four long meetings with Mahajan, not only managed to build bridges between him (then telecom minister) and the Tata group, but also ensured that the VSNL board proposal — earlier termed as asset stripping by Mahajan — got cleared with minor modifications.

Radia’s biggest break came when she got acquainted with Ratan Tata’s close aide RK Krishna Kumar, the man trusted by Tata to translate his airline dreams into reality

FORMER DELHI Commissioner of Police KK Paul was a close friend of Radia’s, and got his post under the NDA four months before the Congress-led UPA came to power. When a former Maharashtra DGP was made to quit the post of Mumbai Police Commissioner overnight in February 2007, there was a strong buzz that Radia was lobbying hard to get him a plush posting at the CBI or an intelligence agency in Delhi. Intelligence sources do not rule out Radia’s hand in the controversy surrounding former Mumbai police commissioner Hassan Gafoor, who was the top choice to become Maharashtra DGP before a damaging interview appeared in a leading weekly magazine. The beneficiary of the Gafoor controversy was none other than Anami Narayan Roy, a close relative of Tata Motors chief Ravi Kant.

It was around this time that Radia fought a bitter, hostile battle with Dayanidhi Maran, who was upset with Ratan Tata’s reported patronage of maverick businessman C Sivasankaran. The enterprising Radia located a confidant of DMK chief M Karunanidhi’s wife Rajathi Ammal, and developed a rapport with her in the course of a number of visits to Chennai. Her biggest break came when a rift developed between the Marans and the Karunanidhi family, which resulted in the suave and progressive Dayanidhi Maran’s unceremonious exit from the telecom ministry. It is believed that Radia once flew to Chennai and organised a closed-door meeting between the DMK supremo, his son MK Stalin and Tata.

Radia is believed to have engineered a privilege motion against Praful Patel in Parliament’s monsoon session of 2005. An unheard of periodical, UT Independent, saw a sudden increase in circulation after dubbing the suave Patel India’s bidi king.

The biggest missing link in Radia’s operation was a full-fledged “think tank” that would take her to the big league of reasoned lobbying. Former AAI CMD Narula, who was parked in Radia’s Magic Air hangar, came handy in building inroads to top-level bureaucrats, who in their mid- 50s start looking for post-retirement opportunities with corporate India.

Despite Radia’s magic not working on former AAI executive director Gurcharan Bhatura, Narula is believed to have been the key man in getting two high-profile bureaucrats in Radia’s corner.

Poles apart, the controversial Baijal and the low-profile Vasudev, the former DIPP (Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion) secretary, were good cornerstones of Radia’s dreams of managing the bureaucracy. Rewarding Narula for having stuck around — he was also the non-executive chairmanship of Magic Air — Radia floated Neosys with Baijal, Vasudev and Narula as partners. In no time, a couple of Chinese companies including telecom major Huawei were being advised by Radia’s company.

LESS THAN three years after it was incorporated, Swan Telecom Pvt Ltd made a windfall gain, selling a 45 per cent stake to Dubai-based Emirates Telecommunications Corporation PJSC, which operates under the Etisalat brand, for over Rs. 4,000 crore.

In the intervening three years, former telecommunications minister A Raja and corporate lobbyist Niira Radia joined hands to bend rules, defy recommendations of the regulator and the Ministry of Finance to allot licences in 15 telecom circles to Swan Telecom, Unitech Wireless, Datacom and Aircel, according to a top-secret document in TEHELKA’s possession prepared by the Income Tax Department, based on telephone intercepts.

“The conversation seems to suggest that the Minister Shri Raja and Mrs Radia too have equity interests in Swan and her associates as to be put on the board,” the documents said without elaborating.

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 26 Nov 2010 11:24

Can somebody give me the links to the Radia tapes translated in hindi. I need few yokels from the bastion to read the truth. They believe that this 2G-woog is a saa.zzish against the bechaari bahu.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 26 Nov 2010 12:47

Open magazine's 50 pages of transcripts of the Niira Radia tapes. The file size is around 400 Kb.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/43725297/Niira-Radia-Tapes

CAG Report on the Scam. The file size is around 7 Mb and it is around 100 pages.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42890038/4275 ... com-Report

The right panel of the above site also contains a link to a famous book on some textile rivalries.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 26 Nov 2010 15:28

shiv wrote:Electronic money and plastic money with tracking could help but this is where "India is a poor country" - the "masses cannot use plastic cards" comes in handy. Dealings in cash and kind are commonplace. If a man visits whorehouses and gets genital warts he will not stop the visits - he will only get the warts treated. Same way when ISI benefits from the cash-based financial system a few people are arrested but the system must go on. Need to keep on visiting the whorehouse.

Among the most naive people in India are the "IT wallahs" because they are all paid what they think are "high salaries". The money is paid directly to banks and tax is deducted. Every paisa is accounted for. They drive fancy cars and are removed from the system where the real money exists. Cash. In currency notes, land, and businesses.

I support Electronic cash. But that will only reduce corruption in small places. It wont reduce corruption in large places even by 5%. Why? Allow me to give you an example of an HCj in Ahmedabad. He will very subtly communicate the price to the lawyer, and the money has to be paid in cheque to a relative lawyer. No cash. The relative lawyer gives a receipt of consulting service. The day cheque is cleared, judgment comes in 2-4 days. IOW, these days, 95% bribes are in cheque. So plastic cash wont make much dent.

I support abolition of large notes and encouraging electronic cash. But lets consider it as alternative to systemic changes like Right to Recall, RTI2, Imprisonment by Majority Approval , Execution by Majority Approval , Narco Tests by Majority Approval etc.

====

a para from Mupulla's links

It is believed that the late BJP leader Pramod Mahajan played a crucial role in helping the Tata-led management invest Rs. 1,200 crore of VSNL’s reserves in the ailing Tata Teleservices. Radia, after three-four long meetings with Mahajan, not only managed to build bridges between him (then telecom minister) and the Tata group, but also ensured that the VSNL board proposal — earlier termed as asset stripping by Mahajan — got cleared with minor modifications.

So how you deter corruption like this? Not by electronic cash. Only way is Narco Tests in Public by Majority Approval.

==

And more question to all Shourie Worshipers. Care to explain why the Knight in Shining Armor, never compromising, always crusading against corruption, Shri Shouriejee never spoke against corruption of Pramod? Was it because Pramod was giving him cut in cash or kind?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Nov 2010 15:51

I've always maintained that the women of the subcontinent have to be admired for their courage and enterprise.Indira,the real "Iron Lady",Mrs.B.,Sonia,Bibi-to name a few.One musta dmire Niiira's gutsy ambition and ruthlessness in carving out her own fortune in such a gang of crroks as we are seeing today!

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 26 Nov 2010 19:14

Rahul Mehta wrote: And more question to all Shourie Worshipers. Care to explain why the Knight in Shining Armor, never compromising, always crusading against corruption, Shri Shouriejee never spoke against corruption of Pramod? Was it because Pramod was giving him cut in cash or kind?

Rahul Mehta, again will repeat a set of questions so we can get somewhere.
Your broadbrushing of anyone and everyone will not help in getting to the analysis of corruption. Hence, once again,
1) Can you name 10 politicians of significance at the national level, who are not corrupt?
2) Can you name 5 politicians of significance at the Gujarath level, who are not corrupt?
If you cannot, it is a valid data point saying that being corrupt is a pre-requisite to have any success in politics in real world.
Rahul Mehta's world tries to deal with after the fact, what is more important is to how to reduce avenues for corruption, instead of punitive sword after the fact. One can deal a situation with intimidation and threat, but surely there are definitely more civilized ways to deal with corruption?

P.S: I hold no brief to Shourie. Only this post of yours was picked up so we can analyze the root cause, instead of just pulling out of the hat, execution by majority vote and other mercurial suggestions.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 26 Nov 2010 19:47

Progress breeds progress. Success breeds success. Corruption will reduce when the present crop of leaders and people go away. Most of us will not be around when it does happen. 2 generations from 1991 is my calculation - 60 years or so. Meanwhile the country ought to keep plowing ahead.

mnag · Post by **mnag** » 26 Nov 2010 20:22

SwamyG wrote:Progress breeds progress. Success breeds success. Corruption will reduce when the present crop of leaders and people go away. Most of us will not be around when it does happen. 2 generations from 1991 is my calculation - 60 years or so. Meanwhile the country ought to keep plowing ahead.

hope you're right. today morning, i and my friend were discussing the corruption among politicians and arrived at opposite conclusion based on the quality of leaders we had post independence and the quality of leaders we have now and the fact that not many patriotic youth are jumping into politics. hope you're right and i am wrong.