Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2010 21:19

^^^ i guess there is no photograph of teh ISI control room showing the operation in progress... until then its all plausible deniability

thats also part of the pak plan

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2010 21:45

on the contrary shouldnt India hope and pray that Palin ascends to the white house. america is ripe for radical change and out-of-the-box thinking the tea party brings to the table...and the lawd knows we produce the most tea. would be interesting to how she manages the chinese and pak 'challenges' to foreign policy - it surely cannot be any worse than now - so there is nothing really to lose for India and the hope of ekeing out small gains. its all upside potential. sure the relations with the EU munna's might take a bit of nosedive but who cares - we dont have a dog in that fight.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2010 21:52

being so utterly clueless the tea party folks and la paline will make america more insular
a sure fire way to shrink from superpower to has-been within a decade
this will accentuate redland v blueland

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2010 22:00

Palinity = Palin + Stupidity or Insanisty or Hannity!

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 01 Dec 2010 22:05

ramana wrote:Palinity = Palin + Stupidity or Insanisty or Hannity!

so is it good for India?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2010 22:18

Nightwatch on two of the leaks:

Nightwatch 30 Nov2010

Comments on two Wikileak reports in the news: The Guardian and The New York Times today highlighted one leaked report that North Korea sold Iran 19 BM-25 nuclear-capable ballistic missiles and another that alleged that Chinese officials support Korean unification and expect North Korea to collapse. Both deserve comment.

The North Korean BM-25 missile is based on the Soviet SS-N-6 submarine launched ballistic missile which North Korea obtained from the Soviet Union more than 20 years ago. The SS-N-6 is one of the most reliable nuclear delivery systems ever developed.

North Korean engineers converted it into a truck launched vice submarine launched system, which was fielded in North Korea.more than five years ago. From North Korea, this missile can reach Guam.

Iran bought a battalion of these missile about five years ago according to FAS -- a photo of the missile can be found on the Internet. From Iran, the missile can reach Moscow and Eastern Europe.

Experts say that from its inception this missile was designed as a nuclear warhead carrier. Iran's possession of this missile is one of the more salient pieces of indirect evidence that support those who argue that Iran intends to develop nuclear weapons. Any other warhead on this missile underutilizes its capabilities.

The point of this comment is that the US diplomat reporting officer mentioned in the report seemed unaware that this information has been in open sources since at least 2006. Moreover, the writers for The Guardian and The New York Times failed to do due diligence searches on the BM-25 sale to Iran.

More knowledgeable observers have known for years that Iran has a reliable nuclear warhead delivery system in these missiles. That information is always important, but it is not new and no longer sensational. Five years ago it was blockbuster news.

As for the report on China supporting Korean reunification, The Guardian's analyst overreached, at least based on the portions of the report that he quoted and missed much of the significance of the material he had at hand.

The portions of the telegram that he quoted did not support the headline that China supports Korean unification. It supported the proposition that China would not stand in the way of reunification if the US took the lead and made it happen.

The Guardian writer was not alone in interpreting Chinese ambiguous language as a green light because apparently US and South Korean officials began to make plans on reunification, according to accounts by other repositories of the leaked reports.

The story behind the story is that China only makes statements of this kind when it is seriously concerned about the survival of the Kim regime and wants to set in place plans for avoiding responsibility for the North Koreans during a political and economic implosion.

The Chinese made even more explicit suggestions during the severe famine of 1995 and 1996 when the North Korean economy devolved into a barter system that almost imploded. After the food crisis stabilized with UN and South Korean help, China denied it ever made suggestions about reunification.

The Chinese laid out a trap. If the public distribution system for food and daily necessities ceases to function, North Korea would become the world's largest ever refugee camp, with between 20 and 23 million people requiring food, public health provisions and medical care every day.

No one is smart enough to know how to take care of a dependent population that large. Plus the North's infrastructure is so decrepit that it has discouraged South Korea from investing in it or pursuing reunification with much vigor. That means that the roads and bridges in North Korea cannot support sustained aid convoys for long and would have to be rebuilt as part of the humanitarian aid problem. The same is true of the telecommunications system and the railroads.

The Chinese want no part of that burden or cost and would be pleased for the US and its allies to shoulder them. Consider, how do you disarm a hungry million-man army that has been raised from infancy to be hostile to Americans? The Chinese do not know the answer and would prefer to see Americans and Koreans die trying to find out, rather than Chinese soldiers.

Finally, the statements by the Chinese diplomats are not consistent with Chinese actions, aid and investments to prop up the Kim regime. That means the statements probably were made in the context of a hypothetical and imminent regime collapse, as in the mid-1990s. Today's news treatment made it seem as if China supports reunification now, which is not accurate.

The lesson for new analysts is that a statement by a foreign official or diplomat, as reported in a diplomatic telegram, always carries spin. If it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true, even if it is partly true. Krauthammer said on 29 November that state department telegrams report our diplomats lying to their diplomats lying to our diplomats. That characterization is a bit harsh, but it is a useful starting point for analysis. Evaluation of diplomatic traffic requires subtlety and skill and lots of critical questioning. The meaning of the language is never self-evident.

The substantive information disclosed to date is somewhat embarrassing, but not all that newsworthy. One element of damage from the leaks not mentioned in mainstream reporting is the establishment of feedback links to the security establishments of the foreign countries.

Foreign security establishments can now develop a very good understading of what the US thinks about key issues; why it thinks that way; whether it is accurate or misguided in their view; whether US diplomats put personal spin on their reports; and whether they perceive accurately, understand the significance of what they are told and report is in verbatim and in spirit, as the host country judges such traits. With that knowledge, they can guide their own diplomats and officials more confidently.

Diplomacy and deception both require a feedback link so that the diplomat or the deceiver can fine tune the negotiations or the deception operation. In this respect, the leaks set up US ambassadors and senior officials to be manipulated because the other side knows the "real" US views on hundred of issues in hundreds of countries. That explains why national leaders can minimize and excuse the more sensational disclosures because all received an intelligence bonanza that should enhance their future engagements with US diplomats and officials.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2010 22:23

From Pioneer quoting European reports...

US has 200 nukes in Europe

NEWS | Wednesday, December 1, 2010 |

'US has deployed 200 nukes in Europe'December 01, 2010 10:39:42 PM

PTI | London

The US has deployed nearly 200 tactical nuclear weapons across Europe, particularly in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Turkey, leaked cables from whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks have revealed.

While the international community has long suspected that the US has warheads remaining in Europe, the locations of the bombs have never been revealed -- until now.

A cable, sent from Berlin, details discussions last year in which US Assistant Secretary of State Philip Gordon talks to Germany's foreign policy adviser Christoph Heusgen about weapons in the four countries.

"Heusgen said that from his perspective, it made no sense to unilaterally withdraw 'the 20' tactical nuclear weapons still in Germany while Russia maintains 'thousands' of them," the 'Daily Express' quoted the cable as saying.

The cable adds that former British Premier Gordon Brown noted it was important to think through all "potential consequences" of withdrawing the weapons from Germany -- "for example, a withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Germany and perhaps from Belgium and the Netherlands could make it very difficult politically for Turkey to maintain its stockpile..."

Another leaked cable details a January 2009 meeting between the US and Dutch embassy officials and Prince Turki Al-Kabeer, an official in Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs, during which Iran's nuclear programme was discussed.

The missive says: "Prince Turki warned that if Iran tried to produce nuclear weapons other countries in the Gulf would be compelled to do the same or to permit the stationing of nuclear weapons as a deterrent."

KS garu long ago in the mid 1980s said that NATO allies were crypto-nuke powes as they all had US nukes on their territory except the launch authority was with US forces. Read the Gordon Brown notation that "Turkey to maintain its stockpile"!

From second statement by Turki, I think we will soon see US stationing nukes in the Middle East. They may already be offshore.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Dec 2010 22:46

Rangudu wrote:Palin is the type who will call for bombing the Vatican if the Pope said something that could be favorable to Obama. She is an insult to our intelligence. God save this country if she gets anywhere close to Presidency.

I'll get to whats in store for India should this dim-wit get closer. But first, let me mention that the rise of Palin shows the worst & best of US:

Worst: that someone of the right race, right religion, right looks, but zero merit can go far, very far in terms of "success" in popular perception and monetary value.

Best: The brilliant management skills and strategic orientation of American elites. Guys like Karl Rove know Palin is a dim-wit, and would be a disaster for their party and US. But they will use her to garner votes of her fanatic followers and then find a way to dump her. Or even if she does come to power, she will at best be a rubber stamp like other nut cases: Regan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr.

As far as India is concerned, Palin or BHO or somebody else, India == TSP onlee. After the latest round of wikileaks, is there anyone left who doubts this?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Dec 2010 22:47

^^^. Yes, for the record, I doubt.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2010 22:51

ravi_ku wrote:
ramana wrote:Palinity = Palin + Stupidity or Insanisty or Hannity!
so is it good for India?

One of the reasons for the support needs to be understood.
GOP needs a candidate who is untainted by lobby and foreign power and who will not be swayed by other groups.
The GOP in the last 30 years has been bought over by lobby. Chinese lobby is one of the suspect.

There is tug of war going on inside the conservatives for the future of the views - PRC china, dollar, economy etc.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Dec 2010 22:55

A_Gupta wrote:^^^. Yes, for the record, I doubt.

Need to get back to work, but you doubt this even after highest level diplomats like Peterson said US must not get closer to India because then TSP will strive even harder to live up to its reputation of a terrorist state?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2010 22:58

PRC questions the Korean unification leak!

link

from Hindu.

Also reports Cameron visit rhetoric was scripted by US!

These leaks will destory all US allies who trust them. Very chatty/catty US diplomats if not gullible.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2010 23:11

ramana wrote:
These leaks will destory all US allies who trust them. Very chatty/catty US diplomats if not gullible.

They have no choice to leak since the trusting quotient of the USG policy has come low.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 01 Dec 2010 23:16

hmm...
India was optimistic on Pak investigation of Mumbai attacks

No wonder if we are still optimistic...

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 01 Dec 2010 23:23

Gentlemen and invisible ladies
I have couple of questions
1.Did anyone from wikileaks or Brad Manning or Mr.Assange actually read or go through the documents before they were actually leaked?
2.Was there a team who could actually asses the possible fallout internationally of the leaks?
3.Would they have consulted some insider in WH or SD or US Military before leak?

I mean,This whole thing could have been lot worse if there was no filtration of documents.So who decides which one to leak and which one stays?

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Dec 2010 23:38

There are 3 million pages in the cables. Say some one can read and digest 1000 pages a day (which is highly unlikely) it would take something like 10 years for one person. TO do this in 6 months how many people would it take to truly understand the implications and filter the appropriate information? Coulpe of hundred at the least.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 01 Dec 2010 23:40

^ If we can get the entire freaking dump as a zip/tar file.... jingoes can load it up on a unix box and parse for keywords by using simple commands/scripts.

naren · Post by **naren** » 01 Dec 2010 23:53

^ I cannot hit their site http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/

There must be tools to crawl the entire site and DL to your machine.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2010 00:49

Looking at the wikileaks through the Paki prism, we see a pattern. The first set of leaks on Af-Pak showed the duplicity of the TSP in supporting the Taliban while recieving funds from the US. These set show the fears of nuke materials loss that US envoys have in Slumabad. if there is third set we can sure expect the TSP's hand in other nefarious acts.

----
Also wonder what Pasha offered to Israelis after the attacks on Chabad House that they havent gotten even with TSP/ISI for the attack.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 02 Dec 2010 00:52

Israelis could have pretended to have given up on penalties in return for info and collaboration on Iran.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Dec 2010 02:25

http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/01/isi-chie ... leaks.html

ISLAMABAD: The head of Pakistan’s spy agency said he had contacted Israeli officials to head off potential attacks on Israeli targets in India, according to an October 2009 US diplomatic cable published by WikiLeaks.

According to the whistle-blowing website, Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the head of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency, told former US ambassador Anne Patterson he had been to Oman and Iran “to follow up on reports which he received in Washington about a terrorist attack on India”.

The conversation took place almost a year after the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba killed 166 people in a series of attacks in Mumbai. India has accused the ISI of being directly involved in the attacks, an allegation denied by Pakistan.

“Pasha asked ambassador to convey to Washington that he had followed up on threat information that an attack would be launched against India between September-November. He had been in direct touch with the Israelis on possible threats against Israeli targets in India,” the Oct. 7, 2009 cable reported.

For contact with Israelis, Pasha will be wiped out.

“And it may be highlighted that ISI has never established any contacts not authorised by the government of Pakistan and which were not in the interest of Pakistan.”
...
Contact between the two countries would anger Muslim militants waging a campaign to topple the government.

PS: The relevant cable is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-emba ... nts/228747

5. (S) DGISI Pasha said that he wanted to convey to Washington agencies that he had been to Oman and Iran to follow up on reports which he received in Washington about a terrorist attack on India. He also had been in touch with the Israelis about information about attacks against Israeli targets in India. His intelligence counterparts in Oman and Iran did not know anything so far but were on alert. Pasha indicated he was willing to meet with his Indian counterpart at any time. End Summary.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 02 Dec 2010 02:50

Wikileaks was booted off Amazon servers earlier today

Pakistani reactions to terror in Mumbai

The UK officials noted that after the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul, the GOI halted the Composite Dialogue, but this time speculated they will feel the need to respond with force rather than diplomacy. They fear a response could include, at a minimum, increase GOI covert activities in Balochistan or even an aerial bombardment of LeT camps in Azad, Jammu and Kashmir (AJK).

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 02 Dec 2010 02:53

Pasha indicated he was willing to meet with his Indian counterpart at any time. End Summary.

First off who is Pasha's "counterpart" RAW chief? Blatant lie.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 02 Dec 2010 03:27

Israelis have been bought off by TSP and also Unkil must have told takes this money Israelis and keep quiet. TSP will only attack India never Israel eventhought TSP claims to be holding Islamic bomb.

In money sense Israelis are malliable no?

That solves the enigma of Israel not doing anything to TSP even though it supplies Iran with everything directly or via NoKo

archan · Post by **archan** » 02 Dec 2010 03:41

ShivaS wrote:Israelis have been bought off by TSP and also Unkil must have told takes this money Israelis and keep quiet. TSP will only attack India never Israel eventhought TSP claims to be holding Islamic bomb.

In money sense Israelis are malliable no?

That solves the enigma of Israel not doing anything to TSP even though it supplies Iran with everything directly or via NoKo

You must be the agent who transferred the money then, since you know this for a fact?
There seems to be no limit to how much you can bullshit on this forum without any links or proof. So in your genius mind your imagined money transfer now "solves" the enigma.
I think it is time to start penalising people who post BS on these forums. You will be the first target from now on.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 02 Dec 2010 03:51

Thanks archan one called me moron, you call me BS hitter.
If TSP is proliferating left right center and that too to Iran and Then to Noko which then land up in Iran is it still BS that TSP scientists are not targeted like the way Iranians are?

Have you not read Pasha meeting Israelis, and Israel advocating Talks with TSP at the height of Tensions during Op parakram.

Whenyou reflect BS can sometimes lead you to some nuggets.

Oh dont you forget the BS of Iran being supplied by Israel during Iraq Iran war....

I will dig up more info... ok BS from other sources , in politicks everything is possible, If had proof I would not be moron to give here..no?

>>>>

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0187/87010010.html

http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=4&sec ... m=1&y=2010

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -iran.html

Tuesday, August 31, 2010
Great news: Israel trading with Iran

Once again, greed causes Israel to do something really stupid.
Bank Leumi was among the first in Israel to purchase the Iranian Gohare stone, which is named after the ancient city of Gohar-Tappeh in Iran, and quarried mainly in Isfahan, in central Iran. The marble stone, the hues of which combine beige and gray, became popular among Israeli architects, and was soon purchased by many traders in Israel, along with other Iranian marble stone.

But how did marble reach Israel from Iran, a state with which trade is barred by law? Through the ultimate transit station — Turkey. The stone slabs arrive in containers marked “Made in Turkey,” accompanied by Turkish documents, and easily pass through customs agents at the ports. This is only one of the methods for camouflaging the country of production, for goods coming from countries with which Israel does not have trade relations. This does not refer only to marble: Other products also make their way to Israel in a similar fashion, including textile, carpets, candy and of course pistachios.

Mirror Mirror who is the best of all

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 02 Dec 2010 04:19

Simple boss only if you trade you can infiltrate, thats why there is no real time Intl from NoKo except via PRC or occasional (as was recent Nuke Scientists) US select audience visits...

How Israel helps Iran
Israel must make it clear that whoever does business with Iran cannot benefit from doing business with Israel.
By Yossi Melman
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... n-1.314907

http://www.neurope.eu/articles/103376.php

An Iran-Israel Treaty: The Indirect Approach

Author: Dr. Greg Austin
From: EastWest Institute
24 October 2010 - Issue : 908

Just samplers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2010 04:32

See his remark spurred you on your searches.
Sometimes admonishment even wrongly given leads to nectar. So continue the good wrok. its very complex world.

Am looking for name of US Asst Secy of State (ASS) for Near East before the job was split to creat the ASS for South Asia. Reason he wrote his memoirs where he describes a trip to Delhi in early 80s and a very good world view from the MEA (PVNR) at that time.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 02 Dec 2010 04:59

One must go back a little to understand the turf wars raging in DC probably Rungudu guru can speak more about (as I am BS hitter and a moron too)

During the reign of Bush and his Sec Of Def CIA, FBI and other Intelligence agencies were lorded over by DIA (Defense intelligence Agency) which was not much appreciated (Ok Archan saar keen to look for BS I give references), there was sniping between Def Sec Donald and Sec State Callin Povell over the aspects of Intelligence sharing and OK BSing...
Callin was ejected out the came Sec Rice she was chosen one .. so did not resist the domination of DIA over the turf of Sec State....

So when things came back to normal after Hillary the first thing she did was to boost the morale of CIA FBI and other agencies hithertoo reeling under...

Now the guy who is leaking is a PFC uniform(army) guy and what is he leaking (no not BS) but all about State Department docs and Ambys

So what is happening nothing but BS

Sate is scambling while to douse the fire.....

Archan saar go back and watch with subtitles Wag the Dog its funny BS too

**********
The Incredible Shrinking CIA
By TIMOTHY J. BURGER AND MATTHEW COOPER Friday, May. 05, 2006

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... z16uLT1CAu

2) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/0 ... 01208.html

Blair almost immediately fell into turf battles with Panetta. Blair objected to the CIA's frequent use of covert action. And he butted heads with Panetta over who would had ultimate say in representing the DNI abroad, which had been handled by CIA station chiefs.

Blair wanted to have final say, but when Blair asked the White House to back him up, top counterterrorist adviser Brennan instead ruled in favor of Panetta.

Brennan was the administration's first choice for DNI, but he was rejected by top senators because of his time at the CIA, during the time of waterboarding and renditions.

Clapper himself has long been a personal proponent for a strong DNI, and it cost him his job when he worked for then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, according to one former senior U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private meeting. In the summer of 2004, as Congress put the finishing touches on legislation creating the DNI, military and intelligence officials sat down to discuss out how the new boss would fit into their command structures.

Clapper, then the top official at the nation's spy satellite agency, and Michael Hayden, who was the head of the National Security Agency, said the Pentagon would likely have to give up some authority under the new structure. But Rumsfeld strongly objected, the official said. Clapper subsequently fell out of favor with Rumsfeld, and was ultimately replaced, the official said.

Clapper is not the favorite choice on Capitol Hill, especially among Republicans.

"While Jim has served our nation well, he lacks the necessary clout with the president, has proven to be less than forthcoming with Congress and has recently blocked our efforts to empower the DNI, which is why at this time I'm not inclined to support him," Sen. Kit Bond, the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in a statement.

3)

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r1230.html

25. 01. 2005

CIA VS DIA

by B.Raman

I have been in receipt of some mail from my readers asking for my comments on the reports carried by the "Washington Post" and the CNN TV channel of the US during the week-end regarding the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) of the USA setting up a new intelligence collection unit called the Strategic Support Branch (SSB), which has been operating in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries since 2002.

****
Archan saar just expand your horizons and read above all reflect before reflecting on others.
Just a humble suggestion saar only..

I know you are fond of me and I cant help it no?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Dec 2010 05:19

ShivaS wrote:
Now the guy who is leaking is a PFC uniform(army) guy and what is he leaking (no not BS) but all about State Department docs and Ambys

So what is happening nothing but BS

Sate is scambling while to douse the fire.....

This is really good analysis. You have to be given credit for this.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Dec 2010 06:19

ShivaS ^^^ I haven't had my Regal yet but I'm confused by the elliptical non sequiturs and elisions in your post. Please don't misunderstand. I am baffled by what your point is. What are you saying about Israel-Iran? It all sounds a bit spinsterish you know?

And yes you can.

IMVVHO, posts on BRF have a dual purpose: to highlight and discuss things that give us comfort that we are not alone in our views, and secondly to ensure that our discussion here gets indexed by Google and then gets read by 'analysts' and commentators who embed some of into the body of their articles.

Both are important. The Internet is is full of BBs whose colorful participants might as well be dogs.

JMT

amit · Post by **amit** » 02 Dec 2010 06:23

Cosmo_R wrote: spinsterish you know?

Got to listen to the song: "Who let the dogs out..."

More seriously I'm confused how links showing that individual Israeli companies doing business with Iran - the arms sale link is dated 1987 (at that time I was great supporter of Iran as I used to think Iranian women were the most beautiful in the world) shows the Govt of Israel is complicit?

Even more importantly how do we linearly conclude from all this that Israel was given money by Pasha to keep quiet? Excuse me but where did the Pakis get money to give to Israel, being the world's biggest beggars? They don't even have oil or other resources which the Israeli may want.

The original comment was

Israelis have been bought off by TSP and also Unkil must have told takes this money Israelis and keep quiet. TSP will only attack India never Israel eventhought TSP claims to be holding Islamic bomb.

In money sense Israelis are malliable no?

That solves the enigma of Israel not doing anything to TSP even though it supplies Iran with everything directly or via NoKo

Couldn't the explanation be more simple? Pakistan is a nuclear armed state with an extreme low threshold and so any miscalculation on the part of Israel could result in a rapid escalation. Also remember that by all indications Pak support for the Iran nuke program has stopped and Israel is not a victim of terrorism origination from Pak soil (like India is).

Finally in the real world "not doing anything" should be qualified, that is what would constitute
"doing something" and which would qualify as "not doing anything". And sometimes "something done" may not be accessible to BRFites, na? Of course if Pakis paying money to Israel is accessible then...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Dec 2010 06:40

Here is a Wiki table of foreign support to Iran and Iraq (sometimes to both) during the Iran Iraq war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80 ... q_and_Iran

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Dec 2010 06:48

Folks,

Without distracting from the primary intent of this thread, can a few opinions be heard about how the US reaction of blocking the access to WikiLeaks (the site has been blocked from most parts of US, Amazon has been "told" to take Wikileaks hosting down, and the US DOS employees are advised not to view the leaked reports) comparable to censorship that China enforces?

How is this fiasco going to impact US dealing with China over various matters including Free-dom of Speech and Democrazy?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 02 Dec 2010 06:54

^^^I am reading cables on Wikileaks right now, I think it is back online.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Dec 2010 07:19

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... t_american

"The Saudis always want to fight Iranians to the last American" and it is "time for them to get in the game," Secretary of Defense Robert Gates tells the French foreign minister in a newly released cable from February 2010.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Dec 2010 07:22

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... never_knew

Americans like to believe in American exceptionalism, that the United States is a force for good around the world, not just another country pursuing its interests via geopolitical horse-trading. This is part of why there is such a visceral public backlash against WikiLeaks -- because it lays bare U.S. diplomacy in all its blunt, unromantic reality.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Dec 2010 07:23

sunilUpa wrote:^^^I am reading cables on Wikileaks right now, I think it is back online.

Sure we can get back to reading but the questions/perceptions remain.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Dec 2010 07:26

X Posted.

The Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan returns to the practices that it perfected against its erstwhile citizens of Bengali origin in what is today Bangladesh.

Is this what the “Jihad in the Path of Allah” part of its motto of “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the Path of Allah”, in Urdu “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi sabilillah”, means?

A growing body of evidence is lending credence to allegations of human rights abuses by Pakistan security forces during domestic operations against terrorists in Malakand Division and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas.

Read it all:

US embassy cables: US concerned about massive human rights abuses by Pakistan army

Be sure not to miss the lame response of that self appointed policeman of freedom, the US, owing to the expedient need of maintaining “goodwill within the Pakistan military”.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2010 07:29

abhishek_sharma wrote:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... never_knew

Americans like to believe in American exceptionalism, that the United States is a force for good around the world, not just another country pursuing its interests via geopolitical horse-trading. This is part of why there is such a visceral public backlash against WikiLeaks -- because it lays bare U.S. diplomacy in all its blunt, unromantic reality.

So the visceral backlash is shoot the messenger? What about the bubbas who made it into SD and dragged it down from the lofty perch once held by John Jay.

If you see most of the hubris messages are after Hilary and Holebrooke took over.