Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Jagan
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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Jagan » 09 Dec 2010 05:38

Aditya G wrote:Downloaded the whole 15,183 records.


What took you so long? :D

BTW trivia challenge:

Look up the name of the Captain from 16th Dec 1965, and tell me if you can attach any significance to it.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Bishwa » 09 Dec 2010 09:05

Turns out Operation Trishul Shakti had quite a history from the Pakistani Side. From http://criticalppp.com/archives/28382

FCNA at that time was headed by Zaheer ul Islam Abbasi and X Corps by Lt Gen Ghulam Muhammad Malik (known as GM)

When posted in 1991, GM and Abbasi hatched what they certainly thought was a cunning plan to thwart Indian troop deployment around Siachen by launching a light brigade attack in the Chulung sector. In the summer of ’92, the plan was carried out albeit disastrously with very heavy casualties. Brig Masood Anwari the brigade commander, was amongst the casualties when Indian troops responded swiftly to the attack and the helicopter was shot down by the Indians.

A H Amin writes that GM Malik had “a tacit understanding with Abbasi that in case he succeeds he was a part of the team and if Abbasi failed G.M did not knew about the attack ! A very typical and known phenomenon in all armies, organizations and bureaucracies all over the world”. He goes on to say that this event was “a sad reflection on how an operation was mounted by an overzealous divisional commander, with secret authorization of his direct superior corps commander, while keeping a so called professional army chief in absolute darkness ! A sad but logical end to the career of Abbasi who was a more upright and internally motivated general officer and shoulders above most of the general officers that I saw in my army service”[xiii].

After the Siachen debacle, Abbasi was recalled to GHQ and posted as Director General Infantry.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby rohitvats » 09 Dec 2010 13:46

^^^The compilation posted by Aditya has this figure for FCNA (Force Commander Northern Areas) - 1516.

Can we run a pivot table and see the casualties under FCNA for different years? Now that we know that there were certain operations launched by TSPA in siachen, we can filter the same. Balance large scale casualties should be accounted by Kargil.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Jagan » 09 Dec 2010 22:38

yearwise count

Code: Select all

1947 Count   1086
1948 Count   1293
1949 Count   53
1950 Count   11
1951 Count   5
1952 Count   2
1954 Count   5
1955 Count   2
1956 Count   3
1957 Count   6
1958 Count   2
1959 Count   3
1960 Count   4
1961 Count   5
1962 Count   4
1963 Count   3
1964 Count   16
1965 Count   1897
1966 Count   100
1967 Count   13
1968 Count   16
1969 Count   15
1970 Count   21
1971 Count   3761
1972 Count   209
1973 Count   124
1974 Count   960
1975 Count   88
1976 Count   60
1977 Count   60
1978 Count   52
1979 Count   54
1980 Count   41
1981 Count   33
1982 Count   38
1983 Count   32
1984 Count   68
1985 Count   74
1986 Count   86
1987 Count   121
1988 Count   161
1989 Count   105
1990 Count   109
1991 Count   97
1992 Count   170
1993 Count   105
1994 Count   74
1995 Count   85
1996 Count   102
1997 Count   68
1998 Count   80
1999 Count   538
2000 Count   154
2001 Count   83
2002 Count   168
2003 Count   150
2004 Count   244
2005 Count   373
2006 Count   214
2007 Count   427
2008 Count   350
2009 Count   763
2010 Count   124


You will notice there are high casualities in 1974. These are nothing but "closing of accounts" from the 71 war. With the return of all the POWs, the missing seemed to have been declared as dead.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Aditya G » 10 Dec 2010 03:50

Top-80 Ops

Code: Select all

Row Labels   Count of Army No
War 1971   3083
1947-1948 War   2257
1971   1649
War 1965   1177
Al Mizan   932   // FATA ops
Siachen   819
BDA   683 // includes Kargil
1965   670
Koh-e-Paima   286
KKH   237 // karakorum highway
71 War   221
Kashmir & NA   196
Earth Quake   175 // !!!
Rah e Rast   149 // FATA
Rah e Haq   140 // FATA
Kargil   130
65 War   124
War 1948   123
Snow Slide   105
Air Crash   98
Rah e Nijat   98 // FATA
BDA (AK)   92
Terrorist Attks Misc   92
Misc   80
IS Duty   77
FCNA   71
On Leave   61
Rwp   58
UN MSN   46
Destiny   43
EARTHQUAKE   40 //!
Suicide Attk   40
1947-1948   36
1971 War   33
Karakuram High Way   29
Gilgit   28
<unknown>   26
BALOCHISTAN OP   22
MT Accident   22
Terrorist Attack   22
1965 WAR   20
Escalation 2001/02   20 // Seems too few
Trg   20
IS Ops   19
1948   18
Anti Dacoit Op/IS Op   18
FLOOD IN NEELUM RIVER   18
Bunji   17
FDL   15
Sher Dill   14
BALOCHISTAN   13
BALOCHISTAN OPS   12
MUZAFFARABAD (AK)   12
War 71   12
Any Other   11
DURING TRG   11
FLOOD IN NEELUM REVER   11
Ops Area   11
Suicide Attack   11
Sabit Qadam   10
TRG/EX   10
Dera Bugti   9
Lahore   9
Op Destiny   9 // FATA


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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Luxtor » 10 Dec 2010 04:53

prithvi wrote:discussion on this thread prompted me to run a google search on Bilafond La.. and I came across nice little gem of an article by an American journalist visiting both sides of Siachen Glacier post Kargil....

the link below..
http://www.wesjones.com/coldest.htm


some interesting snippets...
In settings like this, suffering is often transformed into legend. The Pakistanis tell of a post beyond Sia La, at nearly 22,000 feet, that is said to have three separate cracks in the ice known as Three-Man Crevasse, Five-Man Crevasse, and Eight-Man Crevasse - each named for the number of men who died falling in. Soldiers talk of men losing their minds and leaping from the posts to their deaths. Some say their tormented cries can be heard in the wind over the peaks. And then there's the story about the platoon killed in an early battle at Bilafond La, whose bodies froze into such grotesque positions that their corpses had to be hacked into pieces before they could be placed in helicopter panniers and brought down for return to their families.


The Pakistani gear that I saw seemed to be generally low-quality stuff; most of it carried the brand name Technoworld, which no one I spoke to in the outdoor industry had ever heard of. In contrast, Indian soldiers get state-of-the-art gear from a wide range of highly specialized Western firms like Koflach, Asolo, and Black Diamond.

In April 1989, the Indian army launched a mission known as Operation Ibex; its aim was to capture this peak and force the Pakistanis to vacate the entire upper portion of the Chumik Glacier. Three teams of Pakistani soldiers attempted to reach the summit to thwart the Indian operation and failed; one team was wiped out by an avalanche, the others halted by overhanging seracs. A last-ditch decision was made to airlift troops to a point just below the top of the 22,185foot mountain using French Lama helicopters designed to fly no higher than 21,000 feet.

The air was so thin, the pilots feared they would crash if they attempted to hover. So after stripping as much excess weight as they could, they used a maneuver called a "running drop," which required an individual soldier dangling from the bottom to be dropped onto the peak as they passed over. The first to make it was a 29-year-old lieutenant named Naveed-ur-Rehman. He was soon joined by a sergeant named Mohammed Yakub. But then a storm blew in and both men were forced to huddle on the mountain without supplies for two nights.

"The wind was so strong," Naveed, who is now a major, later told me, "that we had to dig in our heels to avoid being carried away." Over the next 40 days, six choppers relayed 86 soldiers and 38 tons of supplies onto the peak. Two Pakistani soldiers died and 30 were wounded during the defense of Naveed Top. That May - after the Indian advance was halted by a massive avalanche that killed a large number of their troops - both sides agreed to demilitarize the summit.

Or so say the Pakistanis. To this day, the Indian army denies that any of this ever happened.[b]
[b]BEFORE LEAVING PAKISTAN I heard quite a few remarks about Narinder "Bull" Kumar, a legendary Indian military man and mountaineer, and none of them were complimentary. "Colonel Kumar is the man who started all this," Major Tahir had fumed. "I have no wish to meet him - that ********

for the knowledgeable members of this community these all might be already known... apologies in advance..


Good find and thanks for posting this. Written with a typical western mindset about all non western people. Saying how futile the Siachen face off is and how the environment is being ruined by IA and PA, blah, blah, blah. Was Iraq invasion worth it? Where are the huge amounts of WMD's that the Americans promised that they will find there? How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, mostly innocents, did the Americans kill? What was accomplished in the long run? The Americans have spent and are spending hundreds and hundreds of [b]billions of dollars in Iraq since the invasion and this writer is saying India spending millions is wasteful (if that is the correct figure). Isn't what the Americans done is much more futile than Siachen? Talk about contaminating the environment...I don't think any country has done more harm to the environment than the U.S. with the exception of the Chinese.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Bishwa » 10 Dec 2010 05:20

Aditya,
The figures for Siachen i have from the website is 945. I searched for Siachen in any field. Given that the website has a data cleansing problem, that may be a better way to get an estimate figure

Just to give you some examples

2841304's place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is marked as BDA
2938595 place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is marked as snow slide
2846623 place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is Koh-e-Paima

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby pushkar.bhat » 13 Dec 2010 15:10

Interesting that the Pak Army has started acknowledging its role in terror attacks in India. Look at the entry below.

The man is from HQ 30 Corps/ Dte Gen ISI and Operation in which he died is SUICIDE ATTACK and location is New Delhi

:eek: :eek:

Edited Later: Details can be found from the Pak army website. http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/modules/shuhadascorner/embed_shuhada_detail.aspx?id=5838

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby SSridhar » 13 Dec 2010 17:28

That is an interesting find. But, the question is there was no terror attack reported in New Delhi in November 2007. Was he part of the Samjhota Attack and was shifted to a hospital in Delhi ?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Pratyush » 13 Dec 2010 17:37

SS,

Wont this conclusively prove that purohit and pragya are innocent. That they have been framed. This raises some extreamly disturbing questions regarding the MO of the GOI.

Scary.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby abhik » 13 Dec 2010 18:20

^^^^
Operation: Suicide Attack
Cause of Shahadat: NEPTRROTIC SYNDROME/ARI AT Ganga Ram Hosp N/Delhi

what does that mean?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby SSridhar » 13 Dec 2010 19:16

Nephrotic Syndrome ?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Pratyush » 13 Dec 2010 19:54

A deteroriation of kidny it is diffrent from kidny failure. It is to be noted that the guy has to be suffring from this problem for some time before the symptoms manifest them selves. A renal failure can be acquired in the event of an accident. But not the Nephrotic syndrom.

But the doc can explain it better then this.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby atma » 13 Dec 2010 20:12

In Neprotic syndrome, you spill huge quantities of protien in your urine, then the blood looses oncotic pressure, and you bloat up with water.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Vivs » 13 Dec 2010 20:30

The website allows you to filter on keywords (say, suicide attack) and if you do that its seems that most of these soldiers were killed in suicide attacks (I infer carried out by the Taliban) in Pakistan. Maybe this soldier was brought to Delhi for medical treatment and not part of a suicide attack in Delhi??

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby sum » 13 Dec 2010 20:59

^^TSPA soldiers being treated in Nai Dilli after being hit by a suicide attack in Pak ( also noting that they are seconded to the ISI)? Sounds a bit improbable....

Interesting find though..
Last edited by sum on 13 Dec 2010 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 13 Dec 2010 21:01

make sure we save this before it gets mysteriously deleted

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby SSridhar » 14 Dec 2010 08:14

Vivs wrote:Maybe this soldier was brought to Delhi for medical treatment and not part of a suicide attack in Delhi??

No, not possible at all. Moreover, the standard operating procedure the world over is to treat any Pakistani as a member of a suicide squad.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 08:56

Unless he was from the Lumbini Park attack which was on Aug 25 , 2007

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 09:05

this indicates he was definitely in India - and captured


the incidents closest to date of death are

Nov 23 - blasts in UP

Oct 14 - blast in some cinema I think
Aug 25 - Lumbini park - Hyd blasts

Question for Shiv is - could it be from one of these and end up as Nephrotic syndrom in due time??



the interesting part iswhy GOI has not said a word of this

or does no one know??

could our TFTA friends have slipped
Last edited by Surya on 14 Dec 2010 09:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 09:17

ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 09:24

more interesting info from google chacha

Search Bhimber and its a major infiltration route in POK

pushkar you may have struck gold here

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby shiv » 14 Dec 2010 09:24

This "Nephrotic syndome" death in Delhi is a good catch. Really weird.

Two points:

*The misspelling is possibly because of an OCR error. "ARI" is probably "Acute Renal Insufficiency" - genuine medical jargon for kidney failure that can occur with nephrotic syndrome.

*The actual cause of death may be different and the record may be a bluff/erroneous

Nephrotic syndrome is unlikely to be caused by injury. You can get kidney failure after severe injuries though including findings that mimic nephrotic syndrome I guess. If the guy dies soon enough the exact cause will be known only from post mortem and that record may not be reflected in a hospital record or death certificate.

But this guy could be any one of a number of oiseaules who regularly infiltrate into Kashmir. The admission of operation as "suicide attack" by a Pak army man is clear enough.

I am sure the Packees have slipped up.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby sum » 14 Dec 2010 09:41

Surya wrote:ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA

Indian-express has already put out a story on this ( most probably picked up while lurking on BR)...

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby rsharma » 14 Dec 2010 10:23

Surya wrote:ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA


If and when someone in Pindi HQ comes across it ( and eventually someone will).. then.. as Russel Peters would say - " Somebody's gonna getta HURT real bad.."

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Pratyush » 14 Dec 2010 11:49

No stopping it now. The Toilet is also carrying it on the front page.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby milhist » 14 Dec 2010 13:50

Aditya could you please share/upload the database before it is taken down since that is a possibility after this ISI story?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby dnivas » 14 Dec 2010 14:30

Looks like website is already down..It will be funny to watch GHQ downhill skiing with pants on fire.

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Dec 2010 14:43

DDM picking up BRF chatter and shooting mijjile off
army chief made off the cuff comment at press conference
good ungli in musharraf of musharraf

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Anujan » 14 Dec 2010 15:09

Aditya G wrote:Downloaded the whole 15,183 records. Compiling some trivia:


Can you please upload a zip file somewhere and post a link?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby anirban_aim » 14 Dec 2010 15:33

pushkar.bhat wrote:Interesting that the Pak Army has started acknowledging its role in terror attacks in India. Look at the entry below.

The man is from HQ 30 Corps/ Dte Gen ISI and Operation in which he died is SUICIDE ATTACK and location is New Delhi

:eek: :eek:

Edited Later: Details can be found from the Pak army website. http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/modules/shuhadascorner/embed_shuhada_detail.aspx?id=5838


Pushkar,

You should claim royalty.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/pak-army-website-honours-suicide-attacker-72527

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 16:02

well pushkar deserves a pat on the back.

Rest was googling :)



At least hope one newspaper gives BRF some credit :)

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 16:20

Due to technical reasons Pakistan Army Web Portal will remain unavailable for some time starting from 15:30 hours for maintenance.


:rotfl:

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby anirban_aim » 14 Dec 2010 17:58

^^^^^ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby SSridhar » 14 Dec 2010 17:59

I believe that this PA guy was injured in the Samjhota Express attack (Feb. 2007). Possibly, he was triggering the explosions/fire and got injured in the process. Since he was also a passenger in the train, he feigned innocence. He might have even got compensation from GoI. Many of those injured were eventually shifted to Delhi hospitals. I also believe that severe burn injury could lead to renal failure (Shiv to confirm).

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 18:01

jagan , Aditya


please upload the whole set somewhere

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Jagan » 14 Dec 2010 18:33

cAn we give pushkar a medal for his find? :D

Surya, list will follow soon. The set needs soem real cleaning up - but I guess members can knock themselves out with it for a while while clean it up in the background

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Jagan » 14 Dec 2010 18:37

'ere you go

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... y=CPf315EO

Now can someone tell the pak army that once its out there - it really is 'out there!'?

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Surya » 14 Dec 2010 18:45

Thanks Jagan

I say we graduate Pushkar to Senior Oldie

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Re: Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Postby Jagan » 14 Dec 2010 18:48

dotnet sucks.. :P

Code: Select all

Server Error in '/MODULES/ShuhadasCorner' Application.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Invalid attempt to read when no data is present.
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.InvalidOperationException: Invalid attempt to read when no data is present.

Source Error:


Line 89:         */
Line 90:
Line 91:         if (rdr["visible"].ToString() == "0")
Line 92:         {
Line 93:             Response.Redirect("embed_shuhada_main.aspx", true);
 

Source File: d:\PakistanArmy\MODULES\ShuhadasCorner\embed_shuhada_detail.aspx.cs    Line: 91

Stack Trace:


[InvalidOperationException: Invalid attempt to read when no data is present.]
   System.Data.SqlClient.SqlDataReader.GetValue(Int32 i) +118
   System.Data.SqlClient.SqlDataReader.get_Item(String name) +27
   embed_shuhada_detail.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e) in d:\PakistanArmy\MODULES\ShuhadasCorner\embed_shuhada_detail.aspx.cs:91
   System.Web.Util.CalliHelper.EventArgFunctionCaller(IntPtr fp, Object o, Object t, EventArgs e) +14
   System.Web.Util.CalliEventHandlerDelegateProxy.Callback(Object sender, EventArgs e) +35
   System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs e) +99
   System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +50
   System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain(Boolean includeStagesBeforeAsyncPoint, Boolean includeStagesAfterAsyncPoint) +627

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:2.0.50727.3615; ASP.NET Version:2.0.50727.3618


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