Pakistan Army List of Killed and its Revelations.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 09 Dec 2010 05:38

Aditya G wrote:Downloaded the whole 15,183 records.

What took you so long?

BTW trivia challenge:

Look up the name of the Captain from 16th Dec 1965, and tell me if you can attach any significance to it.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 09 Dec 2010 09:05

Turns out Operation Trishul Shakti had quite a history from the Pakistani Side. From http://criticalppp.com/archives/28382

FCNA at that time was headed by Zaheer ul Islam Abbasi and X Corps by Lt Gen Ghulam Muhammad Malik (known as GM)

When posted in 1991, GM and Abbasi hatched what they certainly thought was a cunning plan to thwart Indian troop deployment around Siachen by launching a light brigade attack in the Chulung sector. In the summer of ’92, the plan was carried out albeit disastrously with very heavy casualties. Brig Masood Anwari the brigade commander, was amongst the casualties when Indian troops responded swiftly to the attack and the helicopter was shot down by the Indians.

A H Amin writes that GM Malik had “a tacit understanding with Abbasi that in case he succeeds he was a part of the team and if Abbasi failed G.M did not knew about the attack ! A very typical and known phenomenon in all armies, organizations and bureaucracies all over the world”. He goes on to say that this event was “a sad reflection on how an operation was mounted by an overzealous divisional commander, with secret authorization of his direct superior corps commander, while keeping a so called professional army chief in absolute darkness ! A sad but logical end to the career of Abbasi who was a more upright and internally motivated general officer and shoulders above most of the general officers that I saw in my army service”[xiii].

After the Siachen debacle, Abbasi was recalled to GHQ and posted as Director General Infantry.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Dec 2010 13:46

^^^The compilation posted by Aditya has this figure for FCNA (Force Commander Northern Areas) - 1516.

Can we run a pivot table and see the casualties under FCNA for different years? Now that we know that there were certain operations launched by TSPA in siachen, we can filter the same. Balance large scale casualties should be accounted by Kargil.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 09 Dec 2010 22:38

yearwise count

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1947 Count	1086
1948 Count	1293
1949 Count	53
1950 Count	11
1951 Count	5
1952 Count	2
1954 Count	5
1955 Count	2
1956 Count	3
1957 Count	6
1958 Count	2
1959 Count	3
1960 Count	4
1961 Count	5
1962 Count	4
1963 Count	3
1964 Count	16
1965 Count	1897
1966 Count	100
1967 Count	13
1968 Count	16
1969 Count	15
1970 Count	21
1971 Count	3761
1972 Count	209
1973 Count	124
1974 Count	960
1975 Count	88
1976 Count	60
1977 Count	60
1978 Count	52
1979 Count	54
1980 Count	41
1981 Count	33
1982 Count	38
1983 Count	32
1984 Count	68
1985 Count	74
1986 Count	86
1987 Count	121
1988 Count	161
1989 Count	105
1990 Count	109
1991 Count	97
1992 Count	170
1993 Count	105
1994 Count	74
1995 Count	85
1996 Count	102
1997 Count	68
1998 Count	80 
1999 Count	538
2000 Count	154
2001 Count	83
2002 Count	168
2003 Count	150
2004 Count	244
2005 Count	373
2006 Count	214
2007 Count	427
2008 Count	350
2009 Count	763
2010 Count	124

You will notice there are high casualities in 1974. These are nothing but "closing of accounts" from the 71 war. With the return of all the POWs, the missing seemed to have been declared as dead.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 10 Dec 2010 03:50

Top-80 Ops

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Row Labels	Count of Army No
War 1971	3083
1947-1948 War	2257
1971	1649
War 1965	1177
Al Mizan	932   // FATA ops 
Siachen	819 
BDA	683 // includes Kargil
1965	670
Koh-e-Paima	286
KKH	237 // karakorum highway
71 War	221
Kashmir & NA	196
Earth Quake	175 // !!!
Rah e Rast	149 // FATA
Rah e Haq	140 // FATA
Kargil	130
65 War	124
War 1948	123
Snow Slide	105
Air Crash	98
Rah e Nijat	98 // FATA
BDA (AK)	92
Terrorist Attks Misc	92
Misc	80
IS Duty	77
FCNA	71
On Leave	61
Rwp	58
UN MSN	46
Destiny	43
EARTHQUAKE	40 //!
Suicide Attk	40 
1947-1948	36
1971 War	33
Karakuram High Way	29
Gilgit	28
<unknown>	26
BALOCHISTAN OP	22
MT Accident	22
Terrorist Attack	22
1965 WAR	20
Escalation 2001/02	20 // Seems too few
Trg	20
IS Ops	19
1948	18
Anti Dacoit Op/IS Op	18
FLOOD IN NEELUM RIVER	18
Bunji	17
FDL	15
Sher Dill	14
BALOCHISTAN	13
BALOCHISTAN OPS	12
MUZAFFARABAD (AK)	12
War 71	12
Any Other	11
DURING TRG	11
FLOOD IN NEELUM REVER	11
Ops Area	11
Suicide Attack	11
Sabit Qadam	10
TRG/EX	10
Dera Bugti	9
Lahore	9
Op Destiny	9 // FATA

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 10 Dec 2010 04:53

prithvi wrote:discussion on this thread prompted me to run a google search on Bilafond La.. and I came across nice little gem of an article by an American journalist visiting both sides of Siachen Glacier post Kargil....

the link below..
http://www.wesjones.com/coldest.htm

some interesting snippets...
In settings like this, suffering is often transformed into legend. The Pakistanis tell of a post beyond Sia La, at nearly 22,000 feet, that is said to have three separate cracks in the ice known as Three-Man Crevasse, Five-Man Crevasse, and Eight-Man Crevasse - each named for the number of men who died falling in. Soldiers talk of men losing their minds and leaping from the posts to their deaths. Some say their tormented cries can be heard in the wind over the peaks. And then there's the story about the platoon killed in an early battle at Bilafond La, whose bodies froze into such grotesque positions that their corpses had to be hacked into pieces before they could be placed in helicopter panniers and brought down for return to their families.

The Pakistani gear that I saw seemed to be generally low-quality stuff; most of it carried the brand name Technoworld, which no one I spoke to in the outdoor industry had ever heard of. In contrast, Indian soldiers get state-of-the-art gear from a wide range of highly specialized Western firms like Koflach, Asolo, and Black Diamond.

In April 1989, the Indian army launched a mission known as Operation Ibex; its aim was to capture this peak and force the Pakistanis to vacate the entire upper portion of the Chumik Glacier. Three teams of Pakistani soldiers attempted to reach the summit to thwart the Indian operation and failed; one team was wiped out by an avalanche, the others halted by overhanging seracs. A last-ditch decision was made to airlift troops to a point just below the top of the 22,185foot mountain using French Lama helicopters designed to fly no higher than 21,000 feet.

The air was so thin, the pilots feared they would crash if they attempted to hover. So after stripping as much excess weight as they could, they used a maneuver called a "running drop," which required an individual soldier dangling from the bottom to be dropped onto the peak as they passed over. The first to make it was a 29-year-old lieutenant named Naveed-ur-Rehman. He was soon joined by a sergeant named Mohammed Yakub. But then a storm blew in and both men were forced to huddle on the mountain without supplies for two nights.

"The wind was so strong," Naveed, who is now a major, later told me, "that we had to dig in our heels to avoid being carried away." Over the next 40 days, six choppers relayed 86 soldiers and 38 tons of supplies onto the peak. Two Pakistani soldiers died and 30 were wounded during the defense of Naveed Top. That May - after the Indian advance was halted by a massive avalanche that killed a large number of their troops - both sides agreed to demilitarize the summit.

Or so say the Pakistanis. To this day, the Indian army denies that any of this ever happened.
BEFORE LEAVING PAKISTAN I heard quite a few remarks about Narinder "Bull" Kumar, a legendary Indian military man and mountaineer, and none of them were complimentary. "Colonel Kumar is the man who started all this," Major Tahir had fumed. "I have no wish to meet him - that ********

for the knowledgeable members of this community these all might be already known... apologies in advance..

Good find and thanks for posting this. Written with a typical western mindset about all non western people. Saying how futile the Siachen face off is and how the environment is being ruined by IA and PA, blah, blah, blah. Was Iraq invasion worth it? Where are the huge amounts of WMD's that the Americans promised that they will find there? How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, mostly innocents, did the Americans kill? What was accomplished in the long run? The Americans have spent and are spending hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq since the invasion and this writer is saying India spending millions is wasteful (if that is the correct figure). Isn't what the Americans done is much more futile than Siachen? Talk about contaminating the environment...I don't think any country has done more harm to the environment than the U.S. with the exception of the Chinese.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 10 Dec 2010 05:20

Aditya,
The figures for Siachen i have from the website is 945. I searched for Siachen in any field. Given that the website has a data cleansing problem, that may be a better way to get an estimate figure

Just to give you some examples

2841304's place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is marked as BDA
2938595 place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is marked as snow slide
2846623 place of shahadat is Siachen but operation is Koh-e-Paima

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 13 Dec 2010 15:10

Interesting that the Pak Army has started acknowledging its role in terror attacks in India. Look at the entry below.

The man is from HQ 30 Corps/ Dte Gen ISI and Operation in which he died is SUICIDE ATTACK and location is New Delhi

Edited Later: Details can be found from the Pak army website. http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/modules/ ... px?id=5838

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Dec 2010 17:28

That is an interesting find. But, the question is there was no terror attack reported in New Delhi in November 2007. Was he part of the Samjhota Attack and was shifted to a hospital in Delhi ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Dec 2010 17:37

SS,

Wont this conclusively prove that purohit and pragya are innocent. That they have been framed. This raises some extreamly disturbing questions regarding the MO of the GOI.

Scary.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 13 Dec 2010 18:20

^^^^

Operation: Suicide Attack
Cause of Shahadat: NEPTRROTIC SYNDROME/ARI AT Ganga Ram Hosp N/Delhi

what does that mean?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Dec 2010 19:16

Nephrotic Syndrome ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Dec 2010 19:54

A deteroriation of kidny it is diffrent from kidny failure. It is to be noted that the guy has to be suffring from this problem for some time before the symptoms manifest them selves. A renal failure can be acquired in the event of an accident. But not the Nephrotic syndrom.

But the doc can explain it better then this.

atma · Post by **atma** » 13 Dec 2010 20:12

In Neprotic syndrome, you spill huge quantities of protien in your urine, then the blood looses oncotic pressure, and you bloat up with water.

Vivs · Post by **Vivs** » 13 Dec 2010 20:30

The website allows you to filter on keywords (say, suicide attack) and if you do that its seems that most of these soldiers were killed in suicide attacks (I infer carried out by the Taliban) in Pakistan. Maybe this soldier was brought to Delhi for medical treatment and not part of a suicide attack in Delhi??

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Dec 2010 20:59

^^TSPA soldiers being treated in Nai Dilli after being hit by a suicide attack in Pak ( also noting that they are seconded to the ISI)? Sounds a bit improbable....

Interesting find though..

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 13 Dec 2010 21:01

make sure we save this before it gets mysteriously deleted

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Dec 2010 08:14

Vivs wrote:Maybe this soldier was brought to Delhi for medical treatment and not part of a suicide attack in Delhi??

No, not possible at all. Moreover, the standard operating procedure the world over is to treat any Pakistani as a member of a suicide squad.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 08:56

Unless he was from the Lumbini Park attack which was on Aug 25 , 2007

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 09:05

this indicates he was definitely in India - and captured

the incidents closest to date of death are

~~Nov 23 - blasts in UP~~

Oct 14 - blast in some cinema I think
Aug 25 - Lumbini park - Hyd blasts

Question for Shiv is - could it be from one of these and end up as Nephrotic syndrom in due time??

the interesting part iswhy GOI has not said a word of this

or does no one know??

could our TFTA friends have slipped

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 09:17

ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 09:24

more interesting info from google chacha

Search Bhimber and its a major infiltration route in POK

pushkar you may have struck gold here

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Dec 2010 09:24

This "Nephrotic syndome" death in Delhi is a good catch. Really weird.

Two points:

*The misspelling is possibly because of an OCR error. "ARI" is probably "Acute Renal Insufficiency" - genuine medical jargon for kidney failure that can occur with nephrotic syndrome.

*The actual cause of death may be different and the record may be a bluff/erroneous

Nephrotic syndrome is unlikely to be caused by injury. You can get kidney failure after severe injuries though including findings that mimic nephrotic syndrome I guess. If the guy dies soon enough the exact cause will be known only from post mortem and that record may not be reflected in a hospital record or death certificate.

But this guy could be any one of a number of oiseaules who regularly infiltrate into Kashmir. The admission of operation as "suicide attack" by a Pak army man is clear enough.

I am sure the Packees have slipped up.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Dec 2010 09:41

Surya wrote:ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA

Indian-express has already put out a story on this ( most probably picked up while lurking on BR)...

rsharma · Post by **rsharma** » 14 Dec 2010 10:23

Surya wrote:ok the info is on its way to appropriate folks to look at

I need someone to send it to MEA

If and when someone in Pindi HQ comes across it ( and eventually someone will).. then.. as Russel Peters would say - " Somebody's gonna getta HURT real bad.."

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Dec 2010 11:49

No stopping it now. The Toilet is also carrying it on the front page.

milhist · Post by **milhist** » 14 Dec 2010 13:50

Aditya could you please share/upload the database before it is taken down since that is a possibility after this ISI story?

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 14 Dec 2010 14:30

Looks like website is already down..It will be funny to watch GHQ downhill skiing with pants on fire.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Dec 2010 14:43

DDM picking up BRF chatter and shooting mijjile off
army chief made off the cuff comment at press conference
good ungli in musharraf of musharraf

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Dec 2010 15:09

Aditya G wrote:Downloaded the whole 15,183 records. Compiling some trivia:

Can you please upload a zip file somewhere and post a link?

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 14 Dec 2010 15:33

pushkar.bhat wrote:Interesting that the Pak Army has started acknowledging its role in terror attacks in India. Look at the entry below.

The man is from HQ 30 Corps/ Dte Gen ISI and Operation in which he died is SUICIDE ATTACK and location is New Delhi

Edited Later: Details can be found from the Pak army website. http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/modules/ ... px?id=5838

Pushkar,

You should claim royalty.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/pak-a ... cker-72527

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 16:02

well pushkar deserves a pat on the back.

Rest was googling

At least hope one newspaper gives BRF some credit

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 16:20

Due to technical reasons Pakistan Army Web Portal will remain unavailable for some time starting from 15:30 hours for maintenance.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 14 Dec 2010 17:58

^^^^^

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Dec 2010 17:59

I believe that this PA guy was injured in the Samjhota Express attack (Feb. 2007). Possibly, he was triggering the explosions/fire and got injured in the process. Since he was also a passenger in the train, he feigned innocence. He might have even got compensation from GoI. Many of those injured were eventually shifted to Delhi hospitals. I also believe that severe burn injury could lead to renal failure (Shiv to confirm).

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 18:01

jagan , Aditya

please upload the whole set somewhere

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 14 Dec 2010 18:33

cAn we give pushkar a medal for his find?

Surya, list will follow soon. The set needs soem real cleaning up - but I guess members can knock themselves out with it for a while while clean it up in the background

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 14 Dec 2010 18:37

'ere you go

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... y=CPf315EO

Now can someone tell the pak army that once its out there - it really is 'out there!'?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Dec 2010 18:45

Thanks Jagan

I say we graduate Pushkar to Senior Oldie

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 14 Dec 2010 18:48

dotnet sucks..

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