People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Dec 2010 16:45

well, to be clear - A Roy is and has at many times called for the rejection of the Indian state whilst sitting at its heart and taking part of its many benefits. I don't see that Liu is anywhere close to that situation.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 10 Dec 2010 16:52

Lalmohan wrote:well, to be clear - A Roy is and has at many times called for the rejection of the Indian state whilst sitting at its heart and taking part of its many benefits. I don't see that Liu is anywhere close to that situation.

Totally agree, I must've either mixed her up with somebody else, or read a couple of quotes from her re: the Naxalites and thought it was her main message.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Dec 2010 16:59

well, the fun thing about Roy is that her message changes every so often. First it was stop construction of a major dam (irrigation and electricity generation versus displacement of villages), secondly it has been support for naxalities to violently overthrow the state, and lately support for the seccession of kashmiri muslims from the indian state. the only underlying theme is her hostility to the indian state - although she has to my knowledge not proposed an alternative. For any of these viewpoints/comments in a Chinese context (say opposing the 3 Gorges Dam, Tibettan economic wellbeing or Uighur separatism), her longevity on the Chinese political and public scene would be rather shortlived I fear. India on the other hand has 1 billion Liu's!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 10 Dec 2010 17:08

Even about Naxals, to be comparable - Liu would have had to come out in support of some militant group which were bombing schools in a region and destroying developmental infrastructure in some "poor" region of China, running a parallel kangaroo court and justice system, running extortion rackets and the group ostensibly claiming the right to wage war on the Chinese government on behalf of "poor and tribal" people of the region who were being dispossessed of their land and livelihood by the Chinese government.

In a country that has still not officially rejected Marx, Mao and communist ideology, Liu's statements about the desirability of the role of western style reformation of Chinese regime, as happened under colonial rule - are solidly in tune with official Marxist literature.

[by the way - which western colonial power ruled China for any significant period of time? there were coastal concessions, and with the weakening of the emperoro's power, the different regions of the empire broke up into warlordism as had always been the case for the region whenever central emperor grew weak. It was never a natural nation. But even with that centrifugal period, colonials only controlled the coastal enclaves!]

The desirability of HK in Chinese gov eyes was obvious - and does it not support Liu's position that it was teh colonial transformation of HK that made it so lucrative for the greedy party bosses of CCP, who now saw another area where they could place their kin for cushy lives?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 Dec 2010 17:36

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 670_2.html

Guys looks like GOI made it at last ....because this report does not talk about India being absent and the ceremony is over. Congrats Dr Singh!

The Beijing puppet rapist goons yellow propagandists in India have been quiet these days like a thief stung by scorpion as the tamil saying goes...in the coming days one can expect them to start hollering to justify their pay. They may start justifying past and future Chinese aggression and attribute it all to this event.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 10 Dec 2010 17:45

They can motivate but not justify. If you say you raped a girl because the girl looked too tempting that gives a "motivation". It is not a justification because justification involves legitimacy of that motivation. Yor motivation to rape is not legitimate and therefore it is not a justification. Most practising communists tend to lose this subtle difference based on concept of values -out of a fundamental theoretical fallacyin Marxism.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Dec 2010 18:11

Did not the Nobel Prize Committee Chairman specifically mention India leading other nations in democratization process after WW II ?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Dec 2010 18:14

This Liu case is not simple. It is clear he was being extensively funded from abroad.

Yes, in India A. Roy has the advantage of free speech, but we also get people blown up regularly, and our elites are just as corrupt as anywhere else.

So I am not judgmental about this.

But I think that rather than worrying about this particular incident, one needs to take a step back and decide what a desirable end-state for PRC would be, from India's point of view.

Here are some of the issues:

- assistance to terrorist states
- border issues
- status of minorities (Tibet, Xinjiang)
- human rights (reports about tens of thousands of protests per year, Falun Gong organ harvesting etc)
- political freedom
- corruption

While internal issues (such as organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners) are not a direct concern, the point is that if there is a harmonization of values between states, then it is easier to have harmonious long-term relations.

One needs to figure out what is the intersection between the possible and desirable.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Dec 2010 07:50

India presence at Oslo weird: China

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-pre ... 36986.aspx

Sidd · Post by **Sidd** » 11 Dec 2010 13:57

Japan, Many Times Over

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Dec 2010 17:14

^^Excellent article

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 11 Dec 2010 20:08

Definitely. China making the issue of the Nobel award into a 'slavishness to the West", "colonialism" etc, is infantile or demagogic, or both.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Dec 2010 22:48

From DavidD and amit's remarks it would seem irony and sarcasm are jailable offences in the PRC.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Dec 2010 23:41

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/chin ... rates.html

85pc of urban Chinese cannot afford to buy a home as inflation accelerates

The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) said in its annual Economic Blue Paper that a typical Chinese property now costs 8.8 years of average earnings.
In addition, CASS said that house prices are still rising far in excess of wages, putting property more and more beyond the reach of average Chinese.
CASS estimated that Chinese property prices had risen by 15pc this year, although the rises in some cities have been far steeper.

Official statistics showed on Friday that prices in 70 major cities had recorded their third straight month-on-month rise in November, rising 0.3pc on the previous month and at an annual rate of 7.7pc.

"Property prices are likely to remain high for a while," predicted Matthew Fang, an analyst at Guosen Securities, adding that demand was still strong and that inflation was rising.

Negative real interest rates have helped to persuade many Chinese to invest in bricks and mortar rather than leaving their money in the bank, and there is a continuing requirement for Chinese men to own their own property before they can get married.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 12 Dec 2010 00:07

This is hilarious. Must watch.

Flowers for the Chinese Ambassador in The Netherlands, to congratulate him and the Chinese people with the Nobel Peace Prize 2010.

- Bahram Sadeghi & Dikla Zeidler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NvUbjhx ... r_embedded

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Dec 2010 01:44

xxx post
China: Tibet: Thousands of Tibetans evicted to make way for Lhundrub dam
The hydroelectric project will dam up 3 rivers in Lhundrub County. Thousands of peasants deprived of their homes and land to cultivate; no one knows how they will survive. No respect for the rights of the Tibetans in economic development of Tibet.
http://www.speroforum.com/a/44914/China ... undrub-dam

Local sources tells Radio Free Asia, that "the Chinese are building bridges and blocking the river." "The Chinese have already built houses for the Chinese soldiers who arrived to build a dam."The rivers, Radreng, Lhaching and Pachoe, flow near Phodo and it is believed that the dam will involve them all. The project directly regards at least six villages, including Phodo.Some families have already been removed and all will be transferred before September 2011. Meanwhile, to persuade them to go away, authorities have warned residents "that they can not cultivate or irrigate their land, nor grow crops."The more than 500 families of Phodo do not want to leave, because in addition to the house, they would lose crops, their only means of livelihood, and fear of receiving inadequate housing, and remain without work. For this reason they have asked to remain in the area but have been refused and were housed in various centres. Some families have been sent to the capital Lhasa, where there is no arable land, the peasants had to sell their livestock."Every family - the source added - should receive 10 thousand yuan in compensation, but was ordered to spend it to build the new house."

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 12 Dec 2010 02:25

shynee wrote:This is hilarious. Must watch.

Flowers for the Chinese Ambassador in The Netherlands, to congratulate him and the Chinese people with the Nobel Peace Prize 2010.

- Bahram Sadeghi & Dikla Zeidler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NvUbjhx ... r_embedded

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 12 Dec 2010 04:20

You know...this "china is not ready for...<>" is suspiciously similar to the Indians are not ready for their own country, Blacks are not ready for equality, women are not ready for voting etc etc...arguments that are made by people who want something for themselves but not for others.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Dec 2010 14:37

China appears to be changing its stapled-visa policy

Ahead of Premier Wen Jiabao's visit here this week, China appears to be finally changing its policy over issuance of stapled visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir after strong protests by India.

In recent few weeks, Chinese Embassy here has issued stamped visas to at least three people from the state, including Tanya Gupta, a singer who traveled to Guangzhou to perform at the closing ceremony of Asian Games last month.

Indian officials have recently said that Beijing has given an assurance that the issue of giving stapled visas to those from Jammu and Kashmir will be resolved and that it will not affect bilateral diplomatic exchanges.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 13 Dec 2010 04:14

Staring down Beijing: Will China blink?

There are other signs of a new pushy approach.

Increasingly, Indian diplomats describe their discussions with Chinese counterparts as frank and hard-nosed. India was among only a handful of Asian countries - Japan, South Korea and Thailand - to have snubbed Beijing on the Nobel issue. Significantly, New Delhi has allowed the Dalai Lama to visit Sikkim during Wen's visit. The timing is striking -- the "splittist", who is a red rag to the Chinese bull, will be in an Indian state bordering Tibet on the very day the PM and Wen hold official talks! Co-incidence? Well, think about this -- Just last year, India sat back and watched China react angrily to its decision to allow the Dalai Lama to visit Arunachal Pradesh disputed by China. And India was unfazed when, for the first time in years, China criticised a visit by the PM to the state, suggesting it was raising the stakes.

The new combativeness again surfaced when 25,0000 Chinese were packed home within one year, for working illegally in India on business visas. In May, India barred its mobile phone operators from placing orders with China's Huawei Technologies and ZTE Corp because of national security concerns. In July, India suspended all military exchanges after China offered a stapled visa to the Northern Army Commander. Last month, India and US joined hands to compete with China for influence and markets in Afghanistan and Africa; the PM and Obama also Looked East toward Asia-Pacific.

Mutual sensitivity, then, is the name of the game. Expect the joint statement to elaborate on the theme!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Dec 2010 10:08

http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/13/chinas-e ... india.html
China’s envoy hopeful of free trade talks with India

NEW DELHI: China hopes to have free trade discussions with India during the Chinese Premier’s visit to New Delhi this week, a signal of how the two Asian powerhouses may try to smooth tensions over their economic and border rivalries. “The free trade agreement is the next stage (of India-China relations). It is our hope that we can start the process,” China’s envoy to India, Zhang Yan, told reporters in New Delhi on Monday.“We are very much positive on these issues. I think that in general the Indians think it is positive but need more time.”While a deal could be years away due to Indian fears it could become a dumping ground for cheap Chinese goods, it highlights how world powers are trying to boost ties with a South Asian nation that is one of the few stars in a weak world economy.Wen Jiabao’s visit will be the first to India by a Chinese premier in four years and comes a month after President Barack Obama’s trip. President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron have also visited India this year.Despite a boom in bilateral commerce in the past decade, and cooperation on global issues such as climate change, India and China remain deeply suspicious of each other’s growing international influence.Both powers compete from Latin America to Africa for resources. Many in India fear China wants to restrict its influence, potentially by opposing a UN Security Council seat for India or encircling the Indian Ocean region with projects from Pakistan to Myanmar.
EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE
Assistant Chinese Foreign Minister Hu Zhengyue said everything would be up for discussion during the Dec. 15-17 visit to New Delhi. Wen then goes straight to Pakistan, India’s nuclear armed rival, for another two nights.
“No issues are off the table,” Hu told reporters in Beijing, adding the India trip was to expand bilateral trade, increase cooperation and promote regional peace and stability.
China and India plan to sign a series of business deals, including one agreed in October for Shanghai Electric Group Co to sell power equipment and related services worth $8.3 billion to India’s Reliance Power.
Representatives from Shanghai Electric and commercial banks would accompany the delegation and try to iron out financing details, said Liang Wentao, a deputy director general at the Ministry of Commerce. He would not give a value for the total amount of deals to be signed.India’s trade deficit with China rose to $16 billion in 2007-08 from $1 billion in 2001-02, according to Indian customs data. China is India’s biggest trading partner, with bilateral trade expected to pass $60 billion this year.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Dec 2010 13:16

Will a weakened Dr.Singh,afflicted with "foot-and-mouth disease",do another "Baluchistan" when Wen Wen winds west wisiting weak wimps?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Dec 2010 13:23

No Free Trade Agreement with China. Let's wait another 15 years till manufacturing has moved to India, and then we can talk!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Dec 2010 17:22

Do we know what is formaly on the agenda for the meeting.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 14 Dec 2010 17:27

FTA with China would be a disaster for India, that trade gap would never close.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 14 Dec 2010 19:19

Paymaster is in town, Stalinist rapist goon propaganda yellow puppets are trying to paint everyone that speaks against China as being paid off by US in the form of scholarship for their kids...

Hope some political party organises demonstrations and black flags against this anti-India commie dictator. Let him visit his shorter than hillock friend to get his orifices licked clean...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Dec 2010 20:53

No to investments of Chinese money in strategic sectors
No to procurement of Chinese tech in strategic sectors
No to sale of raw materials to China
No to dumping of finished products from China in India
No to joint ventures with China, where India has a technological edge
No to trade imbalances

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Dec 2010 00:58

Can India be firm with China on Brahmaputra dams?
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/can-i ... 101214.htm

Chinese Premier Web Jiabao's forthcoming India [ Images ] visit (December 15-16) provides another useful opportunity for India to be firm and forthright with China on India's concerns about Chinese dam and hydropower projects on the shared rivers, including in the Brahmaputra basin. The importance of this issue cannot be underscored considering that this issue has been raised in the Parliament several times, even the prime minister has had to make clarifications in the recent past, the people and governments of several states, including Assam and Arunachal Pradesh have been agitated about this. India's Planning Commission, environment, water resources and power ministries have also been raising these concerns.

Unfortunately, India has been less than firm and forthright with China on these issues in the past. The Indian government has informed Parliament in the past that China has not disclosed the reasons for floods in Himachal Pradesh [ Images ] in August 2000 and in Arunachal Pradesh in June 2000, when the floods in both cases originated from China. China started the construction of the 510 MW Zangmu Hydropower project on the Yarlung Tshangpo (as Siang, the main tributary of Brahmaputra is known in Tibet [ Images ]) on November 12. India reacted to that only after the Indian media picked up the news from international media reports. Worryingly, the report from the China's news agency Xinhua said the $1.2 billion project "can also be used for flood control and irrigation". For a project to be useful for irrigation and flood control it needs to store and divert water. But even without these features the Zangmu and the numerous other hydropower projects that China plans will have adverse downstream impacts. This is also urgently important since the rivers that India shares with China are fed by glaciers, most of which are located inside Tibet. Our knowledge base of these lifelines is very poor and better cooperation is also useful for India in the context of climate change. This has been rightly emphasised by Jairam Ramesh.
The best way to go forward for India, China, Bangladesh (a downstream country along the Brahmaputra) and even the rest of the world would be to follow a multilateral mechanism to share not just the water of the rivers that India and China share, but also the mountains, the glaciers, the forests, the biodiversity and the associated lives and cultures that also get shared. The Report of the World Commission on Dams provides a very useful starting point for such a model

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Dec 2010 06:43

In China, uncertain expectations ahead of Wen visit

Ahead of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao's arrival in New Delhi on Wednesday on a three-day visit, expectations in China are measured, with analysts saying they do not expect either major breakthroughs or significant political outcomes as seen in past high-level exchanges between the two countries.

Mr. Rong suggested that the visit should focus on discussing a long-term framework to manage the evolution of the relationship. “There should be an approach that lays out a long-term plan for the relationship, say for the next 60 years,” he said. “There is a need for a long-term vision, not a focus on five or 10 years.”

“In the next 10 years, cooperation should be expanded to set up architectures for regional and global issues, which is missing at present,” Mr. Rong added.

“We cannot always have significant progress for each visit,” said Shen Dingli, a leading strategic analyst at Fudan University. “It takes longer time for a mature resolution to be achieved.” Until then, he said, it was important for both sides to maintain high-level visits.

“In the border area, the situation is stable as previous agreements are being observed, so there is less chance for military conflict,” he told The Hindu.

“Though we see more press reports on both sides on military moves, in fact these are hedging movements to prevent war. But the two sides need to further negotiate to reduce such hedging behaviour.”

Chinese analysts say the growing convergence of interests on global issues could help mitigate the sense of mistrust derived from persisting stalemates on core political issues.

Issues like climate change, or reforming international financial institutions to give developing countries a greater voice, could “help improve overall relations,” Mr. Shen said.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Dec 2010 07:17

Will aamchi yindia raise the persistent concern of cheeni military, missile and nuke proliferation to TSP? I know nothing will come of it, but will we at least raise it strong and straight?

Worst thing is the cheeni team walks off in a huff making fools of themselves. Fine. We can live with that. Still worth a try, I'd say.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 15 Dec 2010 07:33

Hari Seldon wrote:Will aamchi yindia raise the persistent concern of cheeni military, missile and nuke proliferation to TSP? I know nothing will come of it, but will we at least raise it strong and straight?

Worst thing is the cheeni team walks off in a huff making fools of themselves. Fine. We can live with that. Still worth a try, I'd say.

The Jingoism on BRF is good fun. But these kind of high level meeting between China and the "Real Government of India(tm)" are what's really interesting. Let's see how the Indian Government handles the China Threat, as oppose to how the ten-foot tall warrior-poets we have here on BRF would handle the China Threat. Interesting few days are ahead.

archan · Post by **archan** » 15 Dec 2010 07:57

TonyMontana, you seem to be in a habit of ridiculing other members. Please note that you are allowed to post on BRF as a privilege, and many times your counter points are appreciated. However you need to stop flame baiting which often results in a series of OT posts.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Dec 2010 08:10

The Jingoism on BRF is good fun. But these kind of high level meeting between China and the "Real Government of India(tm)" are what's really interesting.

As if the real governments aren't comprised of human beings only.LOL.

Here's how, very recently, the real govt of PRC - the CPC - handled a brother govt only....

The Post's John Pomfret recently described how China's chief diplomat, State Councilor Dai Bingguo, flew to South Korea without invitation or warning, demanded to land at an airfield normally reserved for heads of state and insisted on seeing the president immediately. To his credit, President Lee Myung-bak made Dai cool his heels for a day.

link

And despite that the drones expect the individuals who comprise the CPC to be demi-Gods. Why I wonder. Because the CPC said so, perhaps? LOL.

Anyway, the trolley's been banned, I see. No point carrying fwd this CON-versation now. Though a rebuttal had to be registered. Jai ho.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Dec 2010 08:31

TonyMontana wrote:
The Jingoism on BRF is good fun. But these kind of high level meeting between China and the "Real Government of India(tm)" are what's really interesting. Let's see how the Indian Government handles the China Threat, as oppose to how the ten-foot tall warrior-poets we have here on BRF would handle the China Threat. Interesting few days are ahead.

TonyMontana ji - in India the government will not get away doing what the people do not want. The reason you believe that a governmental meeting is so important is because in China the commie party holds a lot of power and can do things the people don't want. Just watch the reaction in India if the government says or does something stupid. For the Chinese - the government can never ever do anything stupid. The same morons who are wanking off on BR today will be in government tomorrow - an idea that would make your CPC bosses shiver in their kimkoms.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 15 Dec 2010 10:17

RajeshA wrote:No to investments of Chinese money in strategic sectors
No to procurement of Chinese tech in strategic sectors
No to sale of raw materials to China
No to dumping of finished products from China in India
No to joint ventures with China, where India has a technological edge
No to trade imbalances

+1

However, the Chinese can profitably invest in Indian infrastructure ... better than US Treasuries. However, returns should be long term (over say 30 years), and Chinese should also bear the risk - i.e. returns should depend on overall Indian economic growth. An example of such an investment is highways with return coming from tolls, or railways with return coming from passenger / freight fares.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Dec 2010 10:52

Wen begins visit today, dams on India agenda

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Wen-b ... nda/724927

When Prime Minister Manmohan Singh meets Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao for bilateral talks on Thursday, the issue of dams on trans-border rivers — especially on the Brahmaputra — will be raised “quite forcefully”, South Block sources have told The Indian Express.

And to make this point, Water Resources Minister Pawan Kumar Bansal has been asked to be part of the delegation accompanying the PM.

The presence of the Water Resources Minister in India-China bilateral talks is a new development, and has not happened at least in the last two decades, sources privy to the developments said.

Bansal has been reportedly taking briefings on trans-border river issues for the last two days from officials concerned. He has also been briefed about the deliberations of the Cabinet secretary K M Chandrasekar-headed committee of secretaries on the issue.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Dec 2010 13:36

China-India ties fragile, need special care: Chinese envoy

A nice example of commiethink:

Zhang also said it was important for the two sides to create an "objective and friendly" environment. "To achieve this, the government should provide guidance to the public and avoid the war of words. At the same time, more exchanges in the media sector are essential," he added. (Translation: Come to China, mediawallahs and we will tell you what to write. We know that's what you want, anyway.)

One thing WikiLeaks and Radia tapes have shown is that what people say in public more or less accurately reflects what they think, if only we pay close and critical attention and stop filtering their words through our own wishful thinking or prejudices.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Dec 2010 14:30

The Premier of Asia's most duplicitous,scheming,warmongering,hegemonistical,genocidal,
totalitarian regime comes-a-visiting.

Apart from its well know pivotal role in the "axis of evil",where the Sino-Paki-Saudi-NoKo machine plans for global domination, The Chinese have now stared to join hands with the Islamist teror networks like the Taliban.This entity founded by the Saudi-Paki combine and financed by the Wahabi Saudis are now facing the onslaught of the US/NATO combine in Af-Pak.Just as Stinger misiles were used by the anti-Soviet forces during the Soviet intervention during the Zia era to blunt the Soviet air power,so too are the current Taliban forces hoping to obtain MANPADS to counter US air power .AWST in its Dec.13th issue article ("China's fingerprints"),now reveals that Chinese advisers are working together with the Taliban and China may become the secret supplier to the Taliban of such weaponry (reverse-engineered Russian Manpads) and like the famous US politico,Charlie Wilson,who supplied the anti-Soviet mujahideen with Stingers,the bufoon act of Hu and Wen,might be on the verge of entering the Af-Pak circus tent!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 16:01

How can the tarrel then oceal and deepel then mounten fliend be left behind in paying a Jazia to TSP when it comes to wen's visit to India........

China readies goodies for Pak ahead of Wen's visit

Hoping that the influence of TSP will quiten the unrest in Xinjiang.

amit · Post by **amit** » 15 Dec 2010 16:16

Pratyush wrote:How can the tarrel then oceal and deepel then mounten fliend be left behind in paying a Jazia to TSP when it comes to wen's visit to India........

China readies goodies for Pak ahead of Wen's visit

Hoping that the influence of TSP will quiten the unrest in Xinjiang.

Pratyush,

I personally hope that in trade Pakistan goes into the full embrace of the Dragon.

The reason is simple. Unlike the US or EU, the Chinese system of trade is Merchantalist, pure and simple. So any trade largess that the Pukes get from the Chinni will be exploitative in nature. For example, I'm sure the Chinese are very interested in the mineral resources of Baluchistan. However, instead of setting up industries within Pakistan to mutually exploit those resources, what the Chinese would do, left to themselves, is strip mine whatever resources are there, with Chinese labor and then ship the whole thing off to the Mainland.

Of course a section of the RAPES and the Jarnails will be well paid for allowing this, but the country and the common Abduls will be screwed big time.

US and/or EU for all their faults are, nowadays, not as rapacious as the Chinese. That's why their trade concession means quota waiver, special export facilities and such. Things that give a leg up to the sick Paki industry.

Have you ever heard of the Chinese giving special export facilities and such?

In the case of India if, the Indians laid down and gave full access to Indian Iron ore and coal for shipping to the Mainland, I can bet you that half the problems we have with the Dragon would disappear.

The CPC khujli is because they know that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

So more trade between the traller than mountains and deeper than the sea friends I say!