India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Dec 2010 08:53

I feel these diplomat issues, chidambaram's statement migrants in delhi, digvijay singh's play are all a well planned game to ignite minor fires, keep the media engaged and bread n circus for the people. the bigger issues like 2G scam and which corporates were working with the ex-telecom minister are receding from the public eye.

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 14 Dec 2010 11:27

RIP Ambassador Holbrooke.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Dec 2010 11:39

True,

This guy believed that the road to Peace if Af-pak went through Kashmer. He openly stated that the attack on the Indian embessay in Kabul was not an attak on Indian's.

Idiot.....

But he is now a dead man. May he find peace in death that he could not find in Af-pak.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Dec 2010 12:28

Visa woes lead Indian Americans to 24 hour fast

More details than the article posted earlier. Looks like all this started on Ms. Shankar's watch. Hopefully the upcoming replacement will resolve some of this. Also, consul seems to be under instruction to favour secular/INC organisations.

A recent meeting of the community activists demanded a meeting with Consul General Sanjiv Aroa, but he declined it saying that he would meet only leaders of five organisations, including Global Organisation of People of Indian Origin, Indo-American Political Action Committee, India Cultural Centre and Mahatma Gandhi Library.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 14 Dec 2010 13:55

Pratyush wrote:True,

This guy believed that the road to Peace if Af-pak went through Kashmer. He openly stated that the attack on the Indian embessay in Kabul was not an attak on Indian's.

Idiot.....

But he is now a dead man. May he find peace in death that he could not find in Af-pak.

Amen. I agree. Let us not speak ill of the dead.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Dec 2010 16:42

RIP Herr Heil-Brooke,no pal of mine or India though,and no tears spent for the man whose mistaken belief that the road to peace and achieving US interests in the region ran through sponsoring Pak as the suzerain military power,the "feudal lord" of the Indian subcontinent,where Kashmir was to be handed over to it by pacifist,Gandhian India,as the price of terror blackmail,and our status as a US sweatshop and vassal state along with Afghanistan.

The reason for the US's continuing lust for its favourite rent-boy is not just Afghanistan,but also Iran.Many moons ago,I posted reports of covert US-Paki ops into Iran launched form Paki territory.The issue has now become more acute with Iran's nuclear tech. progress.Newsweek has in its latest cover feature,reported that the covert "war" against Iran has already begun with assassinations of Iranian N-scientists,cyberwarfare used to cripple Iranian N-centifruges affecting its uranium enrichment programme and other covert acts.

With Herr Heil-Brooke now resting in peace along with scores of suicide bombers from Af-Pak,his successor will have the unenviable job of extricating US/NATO forces with "honour",and not another humiliating retreat in haste as was seen in Vietnam! How the successor will also mollycoddle the Paki uniformed establishment is another big Q.The linking of Pak and Afghanistan as "Af-Pak",as if both countries were one entity has never ben resisted hard enough by India.What else with its weaklings in power.A vociferous Indian condemnation of US foreign policy in the region and a ridicule of its "Af-Pak" strategy,totally inimical to India is the need of the hour.Perhaps even at this late hour,Dr.Singh and his gentle FM can rstore Indian interests by standing firm for once.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Dec 2010 20:38

The only country/region that resisted to helbrooke's pressure was south asia! :npr.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 20:56

They mean India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 22:34

I always wondered at the antipathy of Holbrooke towards India.

I heard his bio on NPR today. Didn't know his father was refuge from Nazi Germany. In other words he was Eastern European in his origins. Like Zibg, Kissy and other leading lights of US duplicity. So most likely India being in FSU camp was the driver. Despite it was the US that drove India into that camp.

And another odd thing is Holebroke's engagement in ummah related settlements. Bosnia, Af-Pak.

What am I missing here? Is he an Arabist that Kaplan talks about in Atlantic Monthly?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 14 Dec 2010 22:46

Ramana

I asked the same question to some ex-diplo types who knew Holbrooke and it is not clear that Holbrooke can be groupe with Zbig, Albright etc. Virtually everyone I spoke to said that Holbrooke himself had no strong views against India or along the lines of US Arabists.

What I can infer is that Holbrooke saw himself as a classic dealmaker whose abilities to negotiate depended on not being seen as good or bad by either side. He had a big ego and came with a reputation of making a deal in the Balkans when everyone else saw it as impossible. Similarly, he saw Cashmere as another opportunity to make a name for himself. He was not happy that India basically undercut his final posting. Plus, by self-selection, the only people who signed up with him for Af-Pak-Cashmere were anti-India SD types (Robin Raphel etc.) because people who knew India realized that this was a non-starter.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 22:50

Lets see. I am not sure its as simple as that. Most likely there is antipathy towards India due to Arabist leanings. Am still digging thru his bios and will apply the methodolgy of "Thinking in Time" by Neustadt and Meyer chapter on placing people and see what turns up.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Dec 2010 22:56

Nothing of that sort one could google about him. BTW, if it is any arabist, then they would definitely fail in the land of ysr reddies.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 14 Dec 2010 22:56

^ Can this leads to reversal of incidents and moments in Kashmir ?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 14 Dec 2010 23:00

I wonder who, if anyone, will replace Holbrooke as Af-Pak Wazir. Could it be Holbrooke's Number 2 man Vali Nasr? That would be interesting because Nasr is one of the top US experts on Shia affairs and is known to detest the Wahabandis. Nasr is of Iranian descent and also wrote a book on Maududi's rise in pre-partition India and in TSP.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Dec 2010 23:02

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2010 ... outh-asia/ Mr. Holbrooke died after surgery Saturday to repair a torn aorta. His last words, according to the Washington Post, were to his Pakistani surgeon: “You’ve got to stop this war in Afghanistan.”

so who could have saved him rather? perhaps few more years with a right-minded surgeon?

--

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... _holbrooke "When the Indian government learned Holbrooke was going to do [Pakistan]-India, they swung into action and lobbied to have India excluded from his purview," relayed one source. "And they succeeded.

"But, for us to devote serious diplomatic resources to get a special envoy in there, to figure out a plausible approach, and essentially make the argument to the Indians, you guys are on the brink of being an economic superpower, why do you want to keep on messing with this? ... I think there is a moment where potentially we could get their attention. It won't be easy, but it's important." Obama also ..

"The Indians freaked out at talk of Bill Clinton being an envoy to Kashmir," said Daniel Markey, a South Asia expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. "The reason they were so worried is they don't want their activities in Kashmir to be equated with what Pakistan is doing in Afghanistan."

"They [India] are the big fish [in the region]," Markey added. "They don't want to be grouped with the 'problem children' in the region, on Kashmir, on nuclear issues. They have a fairly effective lobbying machine.

"The Indians do not like Holbrooke because he has been very good on Pakistan... and has a very good feel for the place" said one former U.S. official on condition of anonymity. "The Indians have this town down."

"I have suggested to others, though not directly to Dick [Holbrooke], that his title should not/not include India, precisely so that he would be freer to work with them," Zelikow said. "If you understand Indian politics, this paradox makes sense."

...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 23:17

There is a perception problem in US that leads to these fiascos. India is right and doesn't want to be accused and sentenced of being wrong.

Its a matter of truth and not expedient power politics or realpolitck.

Clintonmia will not beacceptable after writing the foreward to Madam Halfbright's book that Indians were at the root of Chattisingpora massacre. That to after the stupendous welcome he got in India when he was in the doghouse at home and in Congress.
Not to mention he foisted Robin Raphael on India and jump started the Kashmir problem as part of New World Order just like Bosnia was to unravel Yugoslavia.

He will be wined and dined by DilliBillis but those who feed, Dilli Billis know what he is.

All these Cold Warriors who know FSU collapsed due to its own contradictions cant wait to punish India as a case of misdirected ire.

What the don't ken is "India is its own India".

Not anybody's Gungadin.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Dec 2010 23:34

As Russia: Hitler :: India: Obama's politics. I think this noble guy has lost sense of many things he could have done.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 14 Dec 2010 23:46

Ramana

One more thing for you to ponder. Often times people who come in close contact with TSP are changed one way or the other. I'm told that Holbrooke of 2010 was totally different from what he was in late 2008 (when a possible Cashmere role was mentioned). Holbrooke's previous connections to TSP was primarily through the Bhutto family ties, especially with BB. He was supposedly good friends with both BB and Zardari when Zardari lived in New York. Remember that Holbrooke too was a resident of Manhattan and was a regular in the high society there. BTW Holbrooke was a multi-gazillionaire from his days in Wall Street (He brokered deals for big investment banks with Eastern Europe government firms etc.). Anyway, after dealings with Kiyanahi and TSPA, Holbrooke reportedly developed a disdain for them, FWIW.

We should know more when more Wikileaks stuff comes out.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 23:47

Please read the Wiki bio of Holbroke:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Holbrooke

You are right not an Arabist.

Yeah Lehman Bros and all that!

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Dec 2010 00:33

Basically we warned the US indirectly that Holbrooke would be declared persona non grata if he was appointed special envoy on anything to do with Pakistan and India. His background was not unknown. And that was that.

Here is the source:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... ty_part_ii

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Dec 2010 03:02

Yeah, really soft, bumbling state, this India.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Dec 2010 10:33

Frank Ruggiero replaces Holbrooke as acting US special envoy

...
Career civil servant Frank Ruggiero has taken over as the acting US special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan following the death of Richard Holbrooke, the State Department has said.

"He will lead the SRAP (special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan) structure that Richard Holbrooke constructed and will really serve as one of his finest legacies, assisted by two deputies, Dan Feldman and Vikram Singh," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said Tuesday at a press briefing.

...

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Dec 2010 10:52

Vikram Singh

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Dec 2010 11:19

Frisk those who frisk us: Praful

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Frisk-tho ... 38461.aspx

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 15 Dec 2010 11:57

^^ that is the most practical policy for India. Instead of whining, we should give US Diplomats the same treatment & some, am sure we will start seeing results.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Dec 2010 12:13

Yes, it will also plug a big security risk for Indian flyers. As someone said, would you want to be on the same plane as the Pakistani ambassador knowing the ambassador was allowed to skip screening?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 15 Dec 2010 12:22

vera_k wrote:Yes, it will also plug a big security risk for Indian flyers. As someone said, would you want to be on the same plane as the Pakistani ambassador knowing the ambassador was allowed to skip screening?

Praful is suggesting reciprocal policy...depends on whether TSP is frisking Indian diplomats.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 12:25

Its not about the TSP. It is about the Khans. They are the ones who in the name of security are singling Indians diplomates. Along with disregarding the status of the Indian diplomates.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Dec 2010 13:04

Regardless, India would do well to adopt the Khan policy for all concerned.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 13:16

As a signatory to the Viena convention it is in advisable to do so. However there is no reason why it cannot make an exception for the TSPs (Think Oz, khante and the Panda, of course TSP ) of the world.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Dec 2010 13:31

I volunteer for the "Frisking" job! In fact I''ll pay ggggood money for the privilige.This gives me a ggggggreat idea.The GOI can auction the jjjjob-I'm sure there'll bbbbe a huge number of aspirants for the enjoyment of fffffrisking diplomutts of anti-Indian nations and recover a fraction at least of the amount stolen from the people of India by its scamsters!

Let the frisking begin!

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 15 Dec 2010 14:10

Philip wrote:I volunteer for the "Frisking" job! In fact I''ll pay ggggood money for the privilige.This gives me a ggggggreat idea.The GOI can auction the jjjjob-I'm sure there'll bbbbe a huge number of aspirants for the enjoyment of fffffrisking diplomutts of anti-Indian nations and recover a fraction at least of the amount stolen from the people of India by its scamsters!

Let the frisking begin!

egaD!!

How can you dream about groping members of the hairer sex?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Dec 2010 14:31

sumishi wrote:egaD!! How can you dream about groping members of the hairer sex?

You don't need to grope. They can strip themselves naked.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 15 Dec 2010 15:40

^I guess this means that Rafael is the MMRCA winner then

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 15:44

^^ How so..........

Why not the EF 2000??

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Dec 2010 15:44

Gloves,dear boy for groping....sorry,"inspecting",use gloves!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 15:45

Philip can grope the men...........

Bliss draft me for the wimmins.............

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Dec 2010 16:01

http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/pr121510.html

U.S. AMBASSADOR ROEMER’S STATEMENT ON MEETING WITH AKALI DAL REPRESENTATIVES

December 15, 2010

NEW DELHI -- U.S. Ambassador to India Timothy J. Roemer conveyed his respects to representatives of the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal) in Delhi State, following his meeting with them today in his office at the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi. The Ambassador and the party members enjoyed a wide ranging discussion on issues of mutual cooperation as well as President Obama’s recent visit to India. The Ambassador enjoyed the open exchange of ideas and the opportunity to hear the frank views expressed by the party visitors.

The Ambassador noted the party’s concerns and reiterated on behalf of the U.S. government his highest esteem for India’s talented diplomatic community. The Ambassador said, “I have high regard and deep respect for Ambassadors Hardeep Puri and Meera Shankar and the tremendous work that they are both doing in support of U.S.-India relations. I regret any inconvenience that may have resulted for either Ambassador as a result of recent incidents. I reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to provide thorough and respectful screening while ensuring that we effectively fulfill our security mission for all passengers. The United States strives to balance our respect for all religions and cultures with our need to ensure the security of all travelers. We welcome dialogue and look forward to working with all political parties in India to advance our historic indispensable partnership ”

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 16:09

What is the ambassador doing meeting leaders of SAD (Badal). This is not open for a dialouge. Either they learn to respect the vienna convention. Or they will preside over the unraveling of the treaty structure which supports the current world order.

There is nothing in between.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 15 Dec 2010 17:14

vera_k wrote:Regardless, India would do well to adopt the Khan policy for all concerned.

Was checking the various "Letters to Editor" in The Hindu for the past two days. Most of them opined that diplomatic policies and procedures needs to be followed. But there was an interesting observation as well. It is only in India that we have these multiple classifications of VIPs who can byepass all sorts of security checks and can bully their way through. Many of them used to this pampering will start whining when the US agents cannot be bullied and their security checks are fully carried out.

Let us make security checks more stringent, including pat downs if required. But do it not as a measure of reciprocation, but for better flight safety. But I dont think it will ever happen. India is so used to the VIP culture, and US is hell bent on enforcing their rules on their own air ports so whining would continue for a long time.