People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 16:34

Am not opposed to the trade and the TSP getting screwed just trying to be sarcastic. As sarcasm is a weak point with me.

wamanrao · Post by **wamanrao** » 15 Dec 2010 17:00

Chinese interlocutors and government officials are not to dismissed lightly.

They are the creme de la creme of China. Apparently, the best minds in China want/aspire to be part of the communist party which is like a big corporate entity. The party offers the upward mobility irrespective of where (social/economic/communal background) the newcomer is from. This is much unlike India where government jobs are the last choice for the bright. It also explains why Indian bureaucracy is found wanting in so many aspects when compared to the same crop in China. The party attracts and aggressively recruits the best from each university and makes offers to expat Chinese to return to senior positions in the party/government. The "propaganda office" (yes that's exactly what the nameplate says) in each university is tasked to do exactly this.

I advise a healthy respect.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Dec 2010 17:29

wamanrao wrote: I advise a healthy respect.

On the other hand Indians have such a low opinion of the capabilities of their own compatriots that we tend to have nothing but healthy respect for everyone else we are always giving someone else their due - the Americans, the Chinese and the Pakistanis.

A person who must rise in the Chicom party may be the brightest guy on earth but he still has to toe the party line. That is the biggest sign of brightness as far as I can tell. If he genuinely believes that is right - his brightness is restricted by that and if he does not believe that is right he is a pretender.

On the other hand - some of Indian's smartest people end up being political leaders. They are dirty, corrupt and selfish - but they are smarter than most of us who work for a living. After all they know more than anyone else that in the long term we are all dead - so they make their today great. Is that dumb or smart?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 15 Dec 2010 17:33

Those who follow the HHDL stories will know that HHDL is making a eight-day trip to Sikkim.

He is spending his time at the Tharpa Choaling (Tashiding) monastery and among many other tasks at the monastery will also try to unofficially broker peace on the reincarnation issue of Domo Geyshe Rimpoche. However this case is sub-judice and any brokering can only go so far in terms of the clear red-lines of both reincarnates. There may have been some peace-brokering with the various GNLF factions when he stayed at Kalimpong before his arrival to Sikkim. Towards the end of the visit, he will participate in the conference on Brain and Mind, Our Potential for Change: Modern Cognitive Sciences and Eastern Contemplative Traditions that will be hosted by the Namgyal Institute of Tibetology (NIT) from December 20 to 23. HHDL's last visit to Sikkim was in 2004 and almost every visit of HHDL, esp. those to "sensitive" states such as Sikkim or Arunachal Pr., are vetted by the Home and Ext. Affairs Ministries as well as the PMO. So the coincidence with Wen's visit should not be seen as a stand-out or a rarity. The gap between the last visit and this is probably explained by the unofficial "truce" between GoI and the CCP, which were broken with the stapled visas, this, that, you name it.

All this said, the Government has forbade Ogyen Trinley Dorjee (the 17th Karmapa-designate) who is "domiciled" in Dharamshala to visit his ceremonial home of Rumtek Monastery, also in Sikkim, or any part of the Sikkim state. The closest he has been to Sikkim is to Mirik in the Darjeeling Dt. of WB, a mere 100 miles to Rumtek. There are certain complicated explanations proferred for this anomaly, let me say that I dont follow almost all of them.

wamanrao · Post by **wamanrao** » 15 Dec 2010 20:49

Indians are no less smart. But the brightest Indians do not always aspire to be in government/public service is my point. That affects the quality of the bureaucrats we produce, the policies rolled out, the infrastructure created etc. The Chicom party, is not to be contrasted with another political party. It is a meritocratic corporate entity. This can only be realized if you separate the idealogical propaganda from it's true nature. This is a good thing and a bad thing for Chinese people, but what is relevant to us is how we can interact with this corporate to our (India's) benefit.

A person who must rise in the Chicom party may be the brightest guy on earth but he still has to toe the party line. That is the biggest sign of brightness as far as I can tell. If he genuinely believes that is right - his brightness is restricted by that and if he does not believe that is right he is a pretender.

Here's the essential difference that I noted in my almost quotidian interface with this bunch of people: They are conditioned to think that this is normal. Great skill in administration or acquired/learned skills in the sciences do not necessarily overcome this conditioning. It is just their "normal".

At 6 pm each evening, all of China's TV channels (some 100+ that I used to receive) switch over to the Chicom party news. This is unthinkable for us in India, but considered par for the course over there. They are not bothered even a wee bit and this was where I experienced my disconnect as well.

On the other hand - some of Indian's smartest people end up being political leaders. They are dirty, corrupt and selfish - but they are smarter than most of us who work for a living. After all they know more than anyone else that in the long term we are all dead - so they make their today great. Is that dumb or smart?

That's neither here nor there. I'm afraid I don't quite get the gist or relevance of this comment.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Dec 2010 21:12

wamanrao wrote:I advise a healthy respect.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 15 Dec 2010 21:14

wamanrao wrote: This is much unlike India where government jobs are the last choice for the bright.

Looks like you are unfamiliar wth the hype around IAS in many parts of India, though mainly in the North & Hyderabad. In many of the IAS centric circles the administrative services are the one to die for, as opposed to either going abroad or the private sector.

wamanrao wrote: It also explains why Indian bureaucracy is found wanting in so many aspects when compared to the same op in China.

How are they found wanting? Please explain....If India is found wanting in comparison to China, its got very little to do with the quality of bureaucrats and everything to do with the difference between the two systems- one an imperfect democracy and the other an authoritarian system. Even here, one system may yield better short to medium term results, but may not necessarily produce the winner in the long-term.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Dec 2010 22:23

China, India hope to build trust amid tensions
are tense.

"Wen Jiabao is coming to India when new tensions and strains have emerged in Sino-Indian relations," says Center for Policy Research Professor Brahma Chellaney. "This relationship is the most important bilateral equation in the world because these two countries make up nearly two-fifths of the global population."The two Asian giants are also the world's fastest growing major economies with a combined military force of 4 million troops. Pricewaterhouse Coopers estimates that the Indian economy could jump ahead of Japan by 2014, making the nuclear-armed neighbors the world's second- and third-largest economies by purchasing power parity."When China and India join hands, they can make a positive impact, not just in their respective countries, but on the world at large," China's Ambassador to India, Zhang Yan, said at a press conference in New Delhi on Monday.There is a very high level of strategic mutual mistrust amongst the highest levels of leadership in both countries
--Srikanth Kondapalli, Jawaharlal Nehru University
Bilateral trade is expected to hit $60 billion this year, making China India's largest trading partner.
Beijing and New Delhi are keen to highlight these shared interests and economic interdependence. Another issue on the table is clarification of China's position on India's bid for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council.Yet recent tensions reveal the Sino-Indian relationship remains fragile and ambivalent."There is a very high level of strategic mutual mistrust amongst the highest levels of leadership in both countries," says Srikanth Kondapalli, professor of Chinese Studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/1 ... na.summit/

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Dec 2010 23:10

amit wrote:

It's not a guy, its a gal and a Booker Prize winner to boot. You know you're right that's the big difference between the two countries. Arundhati Roy can say Kashmir never belonged to India and that it should be allowed to break off from the Indian union in the heart of India's capital and still not be arrested. In case you don't understand the import of this, this is the same a someone making a speech in Tienanmen Square that Tibet should be independent and the Dalai Lama should be head of government.

Please, no equal-equal between Tibbath and Jammu & Kashmir.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Dec 2010 23:16

brihaspati wrote:DavidD,
Liu's remarks cannot be compared to what A Roy (in this case a "she" and not a "he") said. It would have been comparable, if and only if Liu was saying something like "grant independence to the Uyghurs and allow them to secede from the current Chinese regime, because the Chinese government has grossly trampled upon their human rights and the Uyghurs should be allowed to exercise their right to self-determination". .

Except that the Chinese govt. does grossly trample on the Uighurs and we should support the separation of E. Turkmenistan from China. Kashmir secession movement is a Nazi-type movement and there is no comparison between the two.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Dec 2010 23:30

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Definitely. China making the issue of the Nobel award into a 'slavishness to the West", "colonialism" etc, is infantile or demagogic, or both.

The message of china is actually addressed to our lal bavuta bhais.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Dec 2010 23:33

http://www.beijingnews.net/story/720048 ... friendship

Visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Wednesday honored senior Communist Party of India (Marxist) leader Sitaram Yechury and eight other Indians from various walks of life with the China-India Friendship Award for their efforts in promoting ties and friendship between the two countries.

The event was held at the Taj Palace Hotel in the capital this evening.

Apart from Yechury, the eight others who received the award included: (1) Tan Jung (2) G. Viswanathan (3) G. Panditji (4) Manorajan Mohanty (5) Ms. Thakorabati (6) Bhaskaran (7) Mr. hergill and (8) Pallavi Aiyar.

Speaking on behalf of the awardees, Yechury thanked the Government of China for the honour, and said that relations between the two countries were ancient and time tested.

He said that in past, the travels of well-known Chinese monk scholars Huen Tsang and Fa Hein to India in search of Buddhism and Buddhist teachings had contributed immensely to establishing people-to-people contacts between India and China.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 15 Dec 2010 23:38

Thank you Mr. Wen for officially identifying the above ground traitors of India.

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 15 Dec 2010 23:42

In re: trade with China --

To be fair to the Chinese 'private' sector (which behaves more like a private-public partnership for mutual benefit -- the state provides cheap finance, facilitates visas and other regulatory hurdles, and the private sector provides support for Chinese political goals directly or indirectly, but putting that aside for a second), they have some significant achievements in infrastructure projects in other countries to their name, and have succeeded in major projects (notably in Africa) where the Europeans and Americans have tried for years and failed. IIRC they've built plenty of international airports, highways, hospitals, etc. etc. in African countries alongside more run-of-the-mill investments in natural resource extraction, mostly at the request of the politicians of those countries. These projects have built up infrastructure in Africa for the first time since the departure of the colonial powers. So it's not as though the Chinese always strip-mine resources and leave a barren landscape behind. I would say Chinese entrepreneurs are just interested in making money, and if building infrastructure helps them make money they are happy to do it.

I would be cautiously open to allowing some Chinese participation in investment projects in India -- if we can oversee the projects to ensure quality control (no sand in the concrete!) as well as minimizing any security issues (no investments in strategic projects, as RajeshA-ji mentioned above), it could be mutually beneficial. Let the Chinese invest in and help build cement/textiles/steel/car/air conditioner factories, let them build hospitals and schools and other infrastructure. They will see good returns on capital invested, and we need all these things and some Chinese firms are really good at doing this cheaply and relatively well. Jingoism shouldn't get in the way of a good outcome for India and China both. If we want to ensure that the Indian private sector benefits as well, we should make investment contingent on partnering with an Indian firm on any project, so that skills and technical knowledge are transferred.

Of course, the lines between the private sector and the CPC are so blurred that extreme caution would be essential for all that to work. And it goes without saying that we shouldn't allow free imports of Chinese consumer products, because they will absolutely destroy local industry.

My humble opinion.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Dec 2010 00:22

China Leader Calls on India to Be a Partner in Asia
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/busin ... .html?_r=1

NEW DELHI — Kicking off a three-day tour of India on Wednesday, the Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, encouraged the two countries to partner, not compete, as the world’s balance of power tilts toward Asia.
“There is enough space in the world for the development of both China and India, and enough areas for us both to cooperate,” Mr. Wen said in a speech to hundreds of executives from both countries. “The 21st century is the Asian century,” he said. “It is also the century in which China and India can make great achievements.” Mr. Wen is on his first visit to India in more than five years, and his agenda is heavily weighted toward strengthening business ties, in a bid to improve the weak economic relationship between the world’s two most populous nations. Despite China’s vast treasury and India’s need for financing and infrastructure, China’s investment in India has been minuscule compared to that of the United States and Britain. More than 300 businessmen accompanied Mr. Wen from China, dozens more than accompanied other leaders who have visited India recently, including President Obama. When Mr. Wen took the stage at a ballroom in New Delhi hotel on Wednesday, many of the visiting executives cheered. China and India are in the “process of rapid industrialization and urbanization” built on a foundation of fast and sustainable growth, Mr. Wen said. The two countries should “open our markets to each other so we can give strong support to each other’s economic growth.”
The two countries have different strengths, he said, like India’s service expertise and China’s manufacturing skills. During the trip, Mr. Wen is expected to push Indian officials, including Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, to consider a free trade agreement with China. Mr. Wen said that he planned to set new growth goals with Indian officials for bilateral trade, and suggested the two countries set up special investment zones. He said he would also push to make it easier for capital and people to move more easily between the countries. India and China are the world’s fastest-growing major economies, home to two-fifths of the world’s population, and share a border more than 2,000 miles long. Despite common problems, like a rapidly increasing need for electricity and a skyrocketing demand for urban housing, industrialists and economic ministers from the two countries have rarely partnered.
“From the Indian side, there has been a lot of suspicion of the strategic intentions of state-owned Chinese enterprises,” said Jonathan Holslag, a research fellow at the Brussels Institute of Contemporary China Studies.
Chinese companies, when they have entered India, have been disappointed by their profits and stymied by red tape, Mr. Holslag said. “Over all, it has been very difficult for Chinese companies to get their share of the Indian market.” The Chinese delegation was greeted enthusiastically by India’s commerce minister, Anand Sharma, and other Indian trade officials. “There was a time when Asia counted for three-fourths of global G.D.P.,” Mr. Sharma said, and those times are returning. “In coming years, less than two decades, India and China will be two of the three largest economies in the world.” Mr. Wen said $16 billion of deals between the two countries would be announced along with his visit. Some of the total included final agreements or financings of deals already under way. A Chinese telecommunications equipment manufacturer, Huawei, said Tuesday evening that it planned to spend $2 billion to expand its India operations over the next five years, adding a new research and development campus in Bangalore that will employ 1,000.
Companies in India’s Reliance ADA Group, the conglomerate controlled by Anil D. Ambani, said that they would receive financing from Chinese banks totaling about $3 billion, much of it to be used to buy goods from Chinese companies. Reliance Power, the group’s energy company, said in October it would buy boilers, turbines and generators for its coal power plants worth $10 billion from the Shanghai Electric Group. On Wednesday, a company executive said it had secured financing for part of that deal from Chinese banks, while Reliance Communications said it would get a $1.9 billion loan from China Development Bank. Smaller deals announced on Wednesday included agreements between Chinese food manufacturers and Indian fish farms, and between Chinese textile companies and Indian yarn makers. To date, China’s foreign direct investment in India is small. From April of 2000 to September of 2010, China foreign direct investment in India was just $52 million, versus the United States’ $9 billion, according to Indian government figures.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 16 Dec 2010 00:44

G. Viswanathan is getting the award because of this?:
http://www.vit.ac.in/ndtv/Chinese_in_VIT.html

A classroom filled with Chinese students hangs on every word that Dr Viswanathan says. There are Indian students as well. Some, not many. At this university in vellore, China is the super-power. 400 students have arrived here from Beijing and Shanghai to study Commerce and Computer Science. When the foreign students go back home, they could have jobs waiting for them, courtesy India. `` We are signing an MoU with Indian IT majors that want to recruit Chinese graduates, educated in India, for their operations in China", explains the chancellor, Dr. G. Viswanathan .

http://www.velloregv.com/shortbio/shortbio.htm

Viswanathan’s teacher was an atheist and thus used to take him to task asking so many questions because as a boy he used to smear the holy ash on his forehead according to the family custom. This had left an indelible mark on Viswanathan’s mind that he transformed into a non-conformist then on. The rationalistic books that he read enhanced this sentiment. Also, his friend’s brother greatly impressed him with communist ideologies. The first photograph that he brought home was that of Stalin and even conducted a condolence meeting on hearing the news of the leader’s death.

Manoranjan Mohanty is an OGW of the naxals. Plus, he is associated with the Jesuits for Social Action, whatever that is. Wow, is this an admission by CCP of cross-cultural linkages to LWE in India?

Balraj Singh Shergill, Runs the Paragon Senior Secondary School in Chandigarh, President of Friends of china association

Seems like Karan Singh has refused the award citing he would be seen as a china-hand.

Thomas Kolarek · Post by **Thomas Kolarek** » 16 Dec 2010 03:04

History always teaches us that tensions and conflicts occurs when new powers emerge, fortunately Europe already learned it hard way through wars. But in Asia, China is yet to come to terms with it. Sooner they accept that India is one among the biggest economy, good for both of us. Message to China - You can't fool a nation which gives you $60 Billion paycheck every year. You need them more than they need you. Join with us, we will have wonderful decades to come.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Dec 2010 03:09

Rangudu wrote:Thank you Mr. Wen for officially identifying the above ground traitors of India.

+1

When some incident takes place at sea or in the Himalayas between India and China, the Indian people would know exactly which houses to burn down!

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 16 Dec 2010 03:33

Can someone ID the other awardees: G. Panditji, S. Chakrabarty, and Bhaskaran?

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 16 Dec 2010 04:46

wamanrao wrote:They are the creme de la creme of China. Apparently, the best minds in China want/aspire to be part of the communist party which is like a big corporate entity.

Don't go by this brightest and smartest people theory.

World's brightest and smartest work for Wall Street, and we all know where they took us to.

Ask if they are wise and if they have wisdom. Smartest and brightest people without wisdom are dangerous.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 16 Dec 2010 04:59

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Can someone ID the other awardees: G. Panditji, S. Chakrabarty, and Bhaskaran?

Professor Mohanty is a faculty member in the Council for Social Development and also Co-chairperson and Honorary Fellow in the Institute of Chinese Studies, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies; and Professor Tan Chung is a doyen of Chinese cultural studies in India for nearly half a century.

The others were Professor Sreemati Chakrabarti, who had written extensively on China on cultural and social issues; G. Viswanathan, founder-Chancellor of the VIT University, Vellore, Tamil Nadu; Chandrajit Banerjee, Director-General of the Confederation of Indian Industry; V. Bhaskaran, general secretary of the India-China Friendship Association, Karnataka, and Editor of India-China People's View; educationist B.S. Shergill, who is also president of the Friends of China Association, Chandigarh; and Pallavi Aiyar, who worked for two years as The-Hindu's correspondent in Beijing.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article954094.ece

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 16 Dec 2010 05:18

There are certain complicated explanations proferred for this anomaly, let me say that I dont follow almost all of them

Read Mick Brown's "The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet's 17 th Karmapa".
Its an interesting read on the Karmapa

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 16 Dec 2010 05:29

Sreemati Chakrabarti:

Secondly, China is quite sensitive to the ‘Tibet Issue.' With the Dalai Lama and over 100,000 followers living in India, New Delhi needs constantly to renew its commitment on curbing Tibetan separatist actions on its soil so as to mitigate suspicion that it might intend to ‘play the Tibet Card.'

http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a ... epage=true
One response to it:

Secondly, she claims that 'accepting Tibet as part of China is convenient for India or else an independent 'Greater Tibet' brings to dispute the status of Sikhim'. Again, the bogey of an independent 'Greater Tibet' is classical Chinese state propaganda. Needless to say, the claim is preposterous and little more than fear mongering. The Indian constitutional order is broad enough to allow the people of Sikhim the right to be a part of India and run their own governmental affairs while maintaining their religious allegiance to the temporal authority of the Dalai Lama. In the remote instance that any political question regarding Sikhim should arise, one should remember that the Dalai Lama being a highly respected figure in India, it is quite likely that such an issue will be resolved amicably with the GoI.

Thirdly, she says that India 'New Delhi needs [to] constantly renew its commitment on curbing Tibetan separatist actions on its soil so as to mitigate suspicion that it might intend to 'play the Tibet card'. Having declared Tibet to be an autonomous part of China, India needs to do no such thing. There is no reason not to permit the Tibetans to peacefully seek to realize the goal India has so publicly stated and has long accepted. The burden is on the Chinese government to recognize the problem and negotiate a satisfactory settlement on the issue.

Finally, her statement that 'all the facts behind the border war have not come out in the open' is mentioned only in the context of Indian media propaganda. All facts may not have been made public but enough have come out into the open to know that though India made many mistakes, Chinese provocation was considerable (even A.G.Noorani has acknowledged it in Frontline). Though India has not released the Brooks Henderson report, several books have been published giving the Indian side of the story with one of them even being allowed access to that document (Neville Maxwell). On the other hand, how the Chinese side saw it remains a black box. The blame therefore lies less on the Indian side.

http://cbcnn.blogspot.com/2010/04/chakr ... ns_02.html

V. Bhaskaran:

Association General Secretary V Bhaskaran earlier said: “the Dalai Lama should be sent back from this country (India)”.
...
Responding to Mr. Bhaskaran’s statement, Mr. Wang said: “Dalai Lama is not a pure religious leader. I think you will know his unviewed face…because...I quite agree with Mr. Bhaskaran that Dalai Lama should not be doing anything in terms of involvement in politics. Our stand on this has been consistent.

http://www.tibetsun.com/archive/2010/01 ... ties-wang/
http://ecumenicalbuddhism.blogspot.com/ ... -monk.html
http://www.hindu.com/2010/01/04/stories ... 661100.htm

If I had one minute with Wen, my question to him would be: Why no award to MK Bhadrakumar?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Dec 2010 09:12

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 96,00.html
Wen Goes to India: Can Asia's Powers Make Peace?

Barack Obama danced; Nicolas Sarkozy canoodled at the Taj Mahal. But when Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao arrives in New Delhi this afternoon, the mood is expected to be far less euphoric.
With booming economies, both India and China have plenty to smile about, but both nations' increasing prosperity has yet to help them turn the page on past quarrels and usher in a new era of goodwill. Wen's visit comes after a particularly chilly spell in the neighbors' relationship: India is increasingly anxious about China's assertiveness in its own backyard, which has set off a new round of introspection in New Delhi about how to deal with its neighbor. "Relations have sunk to their lowest point politically since the restoration of diplomatic relations [in 1976]," says Brahma Chellaney, a professor of strategic studies at the Center for Policy Research in New Delhi. Both sides hope that Wen's visit will help smooth out some of the differences, but earlier this week in New Delhi, Zhang Yan, the Chinese ambassador to India, said it wouldn't be easy. "China-India relations are very fragile and very easy to be damaged and very difficult to repair," he said.
China's use of water is another rising source of tension. India's biggest rivers flow into the country from China. China is currently at work on constructing the world's largest hydroelectric dam on the Brahmaputra river, which is vital for Indian agriculture. India has agreed to treaties on water usage with its other neighbors, but China refuses to participate. This refusal to compromise underscores China's unreliability as a neighbor, says Srikanth Kondapalli, head of the Centre for East Asian Studies at New Delhi's Jawaharlal Nehru University. "While China argues for multilateralism in the international arena, it reverses that position when it comes to water," he says.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Dec 2010 10:22

Borders have legitimacy only when both sides give it consent

“No boundary has moral legitimacy or legal validity unless it has the consent of both sides,” legal scholar and researcher A.G. Noorani said here Wednesday at the launch of his latest book, India-China Boundary Problem, 1846-1947: History and Diplomacy. “That is why I have ended the volume with a plea for conciliation”' he added.

The book, published by Oxford University Press, was launched by Vice President Hamid Ansari at a function at his residence.

Based on extensive archival research, the book traces the history of British efforts to secure a defined boundary in both the western sector, following the creation of Jammu and Kashmir in 1846, and the eastern sector some six decades later.

Mr. Noorani said his own views had evolved since his first book on the subject written after the 1962 war with China. His views then were a product of their times. Scholars had to avoid the pitfalls of believing “my country, right or wrong” or “my country is always wrong” and this where the study of archival material was indispensable. “History,” he said, “has direct relevance since both India and China had inherited boundaries from the British.”

In his brief remarks, Mr. Ansari praised Mr. Noorani for his scholarship. The subject of the India-China border is much talked about, he noted, but less frequently studied. The Vice President said the two countries were engaged in a process of resolving the issue and expressed his confidence in the eventual emergence of a settlement that would be acceptable, fair and equitable.

Mr. Noorani's book, which includes maps and rare original documents in its appendices, is dedicated to Ram Sathe, the former Foreign Secretary, who served as the last Indian Consul General in Xinjiang as well as it's Ambassador to China.

I hope Vice President Ansari had read the book before agreeing to release it.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Dec 2010 10:42

Friends,I think that we should all write to Dr.Karan Singh MP (Rajya Sabha) and congratulate him on refusing such an insidious award from the "Occupier of Occupied Indian Territory","the Hegemon of Asia","the Ethnic-cleanser of Tibet","Blocker of the Brahmaputra" and the "Proliferator of nuclear weapons technology" to Pak.His act,though appears to be a small one,has great significance and will go down in the annals of Indian patriots for posterity.We salute you sir!

The servile lackeys of China who grovelled and genuflected before Wen disgraced the country by receiving such an award from the Premier of a nation that declares an Indian state as its own,staples visas for Indian Kashmiris,encourages and directs anti-Indian rebels in our North-Eastern states,plots against HH the Dalai Lama-our revered guest and temporal and spiritual head of Tibet,and is chief sponsor and godfather of our mortal enemy Pakistan,where he is travelling after his stop-over in India,to accelerate arms supplies to that nation to include a nuclear sub,nuclear reactors without international safeguards and to continue to build a massive rail and road infrastructure link to Pak through POK, that will allow the Chinese and Pakis to strangle India strategically in the north ,allowing them to jointly takeover Afghanistan.

Why Wen was invited here in the first place after all China's diabolic duplicity and overt acts against India is a mystery to me.It has served his purpose well,allowing him to size up the pygmies who represent us before embarking for Pak, the main feast on his sub-continental travels,where the Dragon will sup with the Paki devils,plotting and planning how to destroy India.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Dec 2010 10:43

^^^SSridhar guru, Is it kosher to buy the book by this gentlemen? I already have some material on historical context of Sino-Indian boundary in Kashmir and Ladakh and would want to add to it. Thanx.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Dec 2010 10:46

Philip,

Isn't Dr Karan Singh a decendent of Maharaja Hari Singh. His refusal to accept the award can be seen from that light as well.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 16 Dec 2010 11:59

Philip wrote:Friends,I think that we should all write to Dr.Karan Singh MP (Rajya Sabha) and congratulate him on refusing such an insidious award from the "Occupier of Occupied Indian Territory","the Hegemon of Asia","the Ethnic-cleanser of Tibet","Blocker of the Brahmaputra" and the "Proliferator of nuclear weapons technology" to Pak.His act,though appears to be a small one,has great significance and will go down in the annals of Indian patriots for posterity.We salute you sir!

The servile lackeys of China who grovelled and genuflected before Wen disgraced the country by receiving such an award from the Premier of a nation that declares an Indian state as its own,staples visas for Indian Kashmiris,encourages and directs anti-Indian rebels in our North-Eastern states,plots against HH the Dalai Lama-our revered guest and temporal and spiritual head of Tibet,and is chief sponsor and godfather of our mortal enemy Pakistan,where he is travelling after his stop-over in India,to accelerate arms supplies to that nation to include a nuclear sub,nuclear reactors without international safeguards and to continue to build a massive rail and road infrastructure link to Pak through POK, that will allow the Chinese and Pakis to strangle India strategically in the north ,allowing them to jointly takeover Afghanistan.

Why Wen was invited here in the first place after all China's diabolic duplicity and overt acts against India is a mystery to me.It has served his purpose well,allowing him to size up the pygmies who represent us before embarking for Pak, the main feast on his sub-continental travels,where the Dragon will sup with the Paki devils,plotting and planning how to destroy India.

Lol, diabolic...I think you're taking this a little too personally

Both sides are just doing what they think is in the best interest of their respective nations

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 16 Dec 2010 18:20

Sid V tweeting that India dropped reference to standard "One China, One Tibet" statement after China did not agree to JK being integral part of India. Some display of spine if true. India could well have linked Taiwan with JK and kept Tibet "free".

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Dec 2010 18:32

A proletariat 'hero' receiving awards in 5 star hotels? What would the rapist goon puppet yellow daily say if US gives out such awards in glitzy ceremonies? Did they not object to Gadkari using lights for his sons' wedding? Is this for services rendered in Nepal where some Nandigram rapist goons trained up Maoists to be anti-India and pro-China through frequent business trips?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Dec 2010 18:33

DavidD wrote:
Lol, diabolic...I think you're taking this a little too personally Both sides are just doing what they think is in the best interest of their respective nations

Yes very true...as I always say, China is very fortunate that it has a bunch of commies totally dedicated to China...we are most unfortunate that we too have them...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Dec 2010 20:17

Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai
Hindi Chini Buy Buy
Hindi Chini Bye Bye.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 16 Dec 2010 20:43

chaanakya wrote:Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai
Hindi Chini Buy Buy
Hindi Chini Bye Bye.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Dec 2010 20:54

Folks, dont lambast Wen too much. He is only beginning to learn to lie properly - an art his non-Chinese counterparts in the west and elsewhere had learnt long ago. He will be visiting the purgatoryland next - and will lie similarly to try and oil the Pakistanis. Nothing much will happen on either side - not at ND not at Slumabad. In the end Wen will return with the deepening realization that he better concentrate on the domestic power rivalry challenges coming up before him.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 16 Dec 2010 23:17

RajeshA wrote:
Rangudu wrote:Thank you Mr. Wen for officially identifying the above ground traitors of India.
+1

+1

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 16 Dec 2010 23:27

Frankly we are just a colonial outpost of China that supplies non renewable raw materials at dirt cheap prices (where COngress overloads get the cut) to fund chinas growth

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 17 Dec 2010 02:48

Last time Chinese prime minister Zhou en lai visited India 1962 war broke out. Let's see what happens now.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Dec 2010 02:53

SBajwa wrote:Last time Chinese prime minister Zhou en lai visited India 1962 war broke out. Let's see what happens now.

Winter setting in now, so it has to be in coming summer time before they rey any mischief. India has to watch out for them at least for the next 4-5 Springs and Summers.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Dec 2010 03:23

India, Pak should resolve Kashmir with friendly talks: China
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india ... 101216.htm

China regarded both India and Pakistan as important neighbours and friends, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu told mediapersons, replying to questions on Indo-Pak ties.
"We hope the two can strengthen cooperation and exchanges to improve relations, which is important for peace and stability in South Asia," she said."As for territorial dispute of Kashmir between India and Pakistan, we hold that two sides should engage in friendly consultations and resolve the issue," Jiang added.Both India and Pakistan are China's "friendly neighbours" and "we sincerely hope that the two countries can co-exist in a friendly manner and jointly contribute to peace and development," she said without directly responding to a question on New Delhi's [ Images ] charges that Pakistan harboured militant outfits planning terrorist attacks against India.Apparently hesitant to take questions on Indo-Pak ties as Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao is currently on a visit to New Delhi, Jiang pointed to Wen's remarks that India and China are partners rather than competitors and his emphasis that the two should focus on their complementarities to seek common development.