China Military Watch

Don · Post by **Don** » 13 Dec 2010 21:20

Sunday, December 12, 2010
WZ-10 of the PLA 5th LH Regiment
They are now in service

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Dec 2010 21:29

^^Good looking beast!!

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 16 Dec 2010 05:09

Over the Horizon: The Pitfalls of the Emerging Anti-China Axis

In short, a developing security relationship between the United States, India, and Japan holds great promise as an effort to balance and contain China. The dynamics of such an alliance will play out much differently than Cold War style containment, however. Whereas the U.S. played a leading role in NATO and the other regional organs of containment in the Cold War, its place in an India-Japan axis will at best be first among equals. Perhaps more importantly, the axis might serve to draw the United States into a conflict with China that it most desperately wants to avoid. These dangers mean that the best scenario for the United States remains the integration of China into a regional security framework, rather than its exclusion.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Dec 2010 05:29

vinodTK, you may want to fix the URL for that article.

An associated article, from Oct 2010 (interestingly it is coauthored by Richard L. Armitage and R. Nicholas Burns):

Natural Allies: A Blueprint for the Future of U.S.-India Relations

wig · Post by **wig** » 16 Dec 2010 09:34

The 3,310-metre tunnel has come up in strategic Motuo county that borders Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims as southern Tibet. It is also a place from where Brahmaputra enters Arunachal
it provides strategic capability to Chinese troops to move quickly to borders

Beijing, December 15,2010
China today completed construction of a 3,310-metre tunnel as part of an ambitious plan to build a highway connecting a remote Tibetan county close to the Indian border with rest of the Himalayan region.

State television showed live pictures of the workers breaking into celebrations after explosives ripped through one of the ends of the tunnel. It took workers more than two years to complete the construction of the tunnel through the snow clad-Galongla mountain located at an altitude of 3,750 metres. Motuo county or Metok as it is known in Tibetan language is the last county in the region that has no highways. Though a remote county, it has its own strategic significance as it borders Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims as southern Tibet. Besides, it is a place from where Brahmaputra, one of the largest of the Himalayan rivers, enters Arunachal.

The construction team broke through the tunnel, just as Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao flew to India on a three-day visit, regarded by both sides as significant as it is expected to put the strained relations back on track.

Located on the southern slope of the Himalayas, Metok would now have a 117-km long highway connecting it with the nearby Bomi county. During the past few years, China has embarked on a massive effort to strengthen its rail, road and air infrastructure in the remote Tibetan plateau.

While China has vastly improved the infrastructure facilities in the Himalayan region, the move has caused concern in India as it provided the strategic capability to Chinese troops to move quickly to the borders. It has prompted India to beef up infrastructure in Arunachal Pradesh.

India and China have so far held 14 rounds of talks to resolve differences on demarcation of some of the areas of the 4,000 km-long border. The dispute mainly confined to Aksai Chin in Ladakh region and Arunachal. India also conveyed concerns to China over Beijing's plans to build a dam over Brahmaputra. China, for its part, assured India that it planned to build a run-of-the-river project to generate electricity and not a dam to block the water.

The issues are expected to figure in Wen’s talks with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Metok county, with a population of 11,000, is Tibet's last county which is not linked with the rest of the Tibetan plateau with a highway.

Snow and rain make the mountain roads impassable for nine months of the year, and a walk can take about 10 hours.

The 117-km Metok Highway, linking Bome and Metok counties, will shorten the time drastically as the journey through the tunnel will take just half-an-hour, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101216/main3.htm

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Dec 2010 11:48

both tiger and WZ10 partially cover the frail legs of the tail wheel struts with a sort of housing below the main tail boom. good H&D play.

india believes in dharmic methods and has not done that yet for LCH

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 17 Dec 2010 15:39

Documents Confirm China's Aircraft Carrier Plans

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2010 15:51

so one can expect them to have 3 x 60,000t carriers in service around 2020. unlike us they build fast and have some of the largest commercial & naval shipyards around. or atleast varyag and their 1st new carrier will be in service with 2nd nearing completion.

this is not a good situation - gorskhov @ 40,000t and IAC1 @ 40,000t is the onlee things we will have if IAC2 does not start work asap which it cannot because (oops) Cochin has only one such drydock .... so unless IAC1 is floated out for fitting , I dont think we can start on IAC2. and building in modular sections offline is not possible for such a huge ship.

I am sure Rus will have happy to sell them 100 Mig29K when the time comes.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Dec 2010 16:04

2045, Somewhere in the Java Sea, IN CBG's and India's Pacific Rim allies clash with PLAN CBG's to decide the fate of the planet...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 16:29

Singha sir,

That is where Pipav and L&T come into the picture. They are both hungry for work.

LM,

If the cuurrent Indian dispensation passes on power to like minded individuals the battle could well be in sight of Chennai.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 17 Dec 2010 20:14

How about the QE2 if it is available?

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 17 Dec 2010 22:43

It is highly possible that QE2 will be sold to India. The proposed timings of it being moth-balled and viraats retirement are coinciding.

But why should we buy QE2. I would rather India build its own Aircraft Carrier, and this time somewhere on the eastern coast. This would help to generate employment and develop Indias capability. QE2 has been designed with British requirements in mind. We need to build IAC-II and IAC-III for Indian requirements and possibly equip both of them, if feasible, with nuclear propulsion.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Dec 2010 06:06

Vivek K wrote:How about the QE2 if it is available?

Why are we talking about the QE2 again?? It has been made abundantly clear by the Navy chief that it is not interested inlooking at foreign options for Aircraft Carriers.

Question: The Indian Navy has reportedly asked for more information on the Queen’s class aircraft carrier programmers that Britain is currently implementing. Also, in context of the continuing indecision on the Vikramaditya’s final price, where does the Navy’s carrier program stand today?

Admiral Nirmal Verma: Work on the Vikramaditya is proceeding quite well with additional manpower having been assigned to the project by the yard. Contract negotiation for finalizing the revised prices as well as other terms and condition of the Vikramaditya are currently in progress. The construction and trial schedule envisages for her induction into the Indian Navy by 2012 and the issue is being addressed at every level of the bilateral structures between India and Russia.

The immediate impact of the delayed induction of the Vikramaditya will be that we will have to maintain Viraat at her current operational-capability for a bit longer than we had initially anticipated. Fortunately, the material state and role-worthiness of the Viraat continue to be good, thanks to the unflagging effort put in by successive sets of the ship’s crew and their civilian and uniformed colleagues at the Naval Dockyards. The Cochin Shipyard and a variety of shore-based staff-planning and logistics organizations, all of which have been sustaining a tempo of work and commitment that is nothing short of remarkable. At the same time, we will need to ensure that work on our first Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), which is currently under construction at the Cochin Shipyard Limited, Kochi, continues satisfactorily. As we speak, fabrication of up to 10,000 tonnes of hull structure and 1000 tonnes of hull assembly in dry dock has been completed. Major equipment for the ship are in various stages of procurement. As you are aware, the keel laying was done by the Raksha Mantri on 28 February 2009 and the first launch is envisaged by 31 October 2010. Delivery is expected to be towards the end of 2014.

You would know that the Queen’s-class of carriers are expected to be ready only after 2016,as such by then we should have Vikramaditya and IAC-1 operational with IAC-2 well under consideration. I do not immediately see any reason for us to explore foreign acquisitions at that time when the impetus is increasingly on indigenization.

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/detailin ... .jsp?id=37

I hope this puts an end to the QE2 discussion for good.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2010 09:22

> the battle could well be in sight of Chennai.

or even ulsoor lake! mine the waters!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Dec 2010 10:32

Isnt that in B'lore

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2010 10:34

the PLAN invasion fleet could sail up the kaveri and then use smaller rivers like varthur to reach whitefield from whence they can shell the entire city.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Dec 2010 11:10

Hmmm..........

Malik, You really don't like it small. My R&D started small. You have teken it to the next level.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 18 Dec 2010 21:48

India faces threat from China: Mulayam http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 124085.cms

ETAWAH: Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav on Saturday alleged India faces threat from China which has developed roads on its side of the border and deployed its army there.

"China has made all preparations to attack India and we are not prepared. It has made roads on its side of the border facing Laddakh, Sikkim, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand and Arunachal Pradesh and deployed its army there", Yadav said while addressing a wrestling competition in Saifai Mahotsava.

He asked the Centre to hold talks with all opposition parties and prepare a foreign policy.

Patrick Cusack · Post by **Patrick Cusack** » 18 Dec 2010 23:56

It is OK for India to be paranoid about China - they have in the past and continue to screw India. The unfortunate fact is that the Chinese (Imperialistic Communist rulers only included) have not learned their lesson from when they were an underdog!

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 19 Dec 2010 00:31

This may be slightly off topic and my apologies if that is the case....but this is interesting news...
looks like a nuke exchange with pak will not be limited to a two way exchange by india ....india will target china also....makes sense and adds to stability ...i hope the chinese have been directly or indirectly informed...

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/IDR- ... rrent.html

some interesting snippets below

"Pakistani nuclear weapons and posture is a proxy extension of China. As noted by senior Indian strategists that India-Pakistan nuclear scenario is not a two-sum game, meaning that in case of Pakistani first-strike the nuclear exchange will not be limited between India and Pakistan. A first-strike by Pakistan can only happen at China’s behest"

"Most Indian spent fuel rod inventory from power reactors is not under IAEA safeguard. Analysis of Indian fuel mining and actual consumption indicate that India has large quantity of lightly irradiated spent fuel from which at least 2,400 Kg19 weapon grade plutonium can be reprocessed, which will be enough for about 600 nukes (mix of FBF and TN types). "

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 19 Dec 2010 01:43

arnabh wrote: some interesting snippets below

"Pakistani nuclear weapons and posture is a proxy extension of China. As noted by senior Indian strategists that India-Pakistan nuclear scenario is not a two-sum game, meaning that in case of Pakistani first-strike the nuclear exchange will not be limited between India and Pakistan. A first-strike by Pakistan can only happen at China’s behest"

Absolutely, pity it has taken so long to say this. It would be nice for this to be found on Wikileaks so as tell the Chinese that we would hold them responsible for Pak adventure. Your fault, my fault anyones fault, panda cities will light up!

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 19 Dec 2010 09:12

Though I am not sure if our Congress govt will ever find the courage to carry through nuking china.....a protocol needs to be made and needs to be followed through with military precision in case of nuclear war...the politician responsible for decisions needs to be made aware that any dillydallying because of political considerations will be met with something like a death penalty...so for example the PM may think twice about nuking pak (after a paki nuke on india) thinking about losing minority votes in india and these kind of lower instincts can be countered by the threat of severe penalty

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 19 Dec 2010 09:52

Lisa wrote:
arnabh wrote: some interesting snippets below

"Pakistani nuclear weapons and posture is a proxy extension of China. As noted by senior Indian strategists that India-Pakistan nuclear scenario is not a two-sum game, meaning that in case of Pakistani first-strike the nuclear exchange will not be limited between India and Pakistan. A first-strike by Pakistan can only happen at China’s behest"

Absolutely, pity it has taken so long to say this. It would be nice for this to be found on Wikileaks so as tell the Chinese that we would hold them responsible for Pak adventure. Your fault, my fault anyones fault, panda cities will light up!

IMHO, one should keep smiling and nodding at least until there is some minimal credible deterrence. Which means tested, reliable thermonukes and reliable long range missiles in sufficient numbers. After that, better sense may prevail in China. China's bad behavior is a consequence of the GoI keeping India poorly armed (whether by negligence or design).

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 19 Dec 2010 13:19

So soon after Wen's visit!!!
China ignores 1600km border, treats J&K out of India

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 19 Dec 2010 14:04

arnabh wrote:Though I am not sure if our Congress govt will ever find the courage to carry through nuking china.....a protocol needs to be made and needs to be followed through with military precision in case of nuclear war...the politician responsible for decisions needs to be made aware that any dillydallying because of political considerations will be met with something like a death penalty...so for example the PM may think twice about nuking pak (after a paki nuke on india) thinking about losing minority votes in india and these kind of lower instincts can be countered by the threat of severe penalty

`China does not do what it does due to any love of Pukistan. It does so, so
as to sow misery on our borders and to help 'tie' us down. It must be held
to account. Any and all strategic responses must involve China and in no
uncertain terms this should be made clear.

China can then start thinking about how to protect itself from Pukistans
adventureism. There can be no ifs and no buts about this. Any thinking and
structure of response that does not have this built in is flawed.

I may be inclined to go a bit further. Pukistan believes that by attacking
India, it will be destroying all Hindus and associated culture and that under
the guise of their misinterpretation of the Koran that this is a worthy thing
to sacrifice ones self for. What are the strategic plans for an attack upon,
forgive me, 'centres of Islamic' culture as a counter.

India in my opinion must clarify, officially or unofficially its absolute
intention to escalate matters over and above the 'expected response' to
clarify where current support will be taking such an affair.

Part of response for charging 3.5 for creating and maintaining. this misery
next to us is discussed here. The rest can only be discussed as we move
from a policy of Counter Strike to one of Counter Force. Time and money
will determine the evolution of this policy and for now both are on our side

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 19 Dec 2010 14:14

China does what it does because it believes Yindus will blink first when it comes to nukes. And they are right, given India's non-proven thermonukes. I don't think bravado will serve any purpose until this fundamental deficiency is addressed.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Dec 2010 15:15

When it comes to nuke chinkis have everything to loose. Even the FBF devices are good enough for them.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Dec 2010 15:22

Those editors and reporters who met Wen should have lectured him too. Much like they did when Mush visited India they were lectured to.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 19 Dec 2010 15:27

^^ India should push Tibet and Taiwan issue to world stage and scrap One china policy which is myth anyway.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 19 Dec 2010 15:40

vavinash wrote:When it comes to nuke chinkis have everything to loose. Even the FBF devices are good enough for them.

That line of thinking will lead to questions regarding survivability and psychology. One has to consider whether one can finish on one's own terms.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 19 Dec 2010 19:13

Pranav wrote:China does what it does because it believes Yindus will blink first when it comes to nukes. And they are right, given India's non-proven thermonukes. I don't think bravado will serve any purpose until this fundamental deficiency is addressed.

Deterrence has little to do with bravado. It is a policy based on madness.
India remains the best pupil in a class full of delinquents who know that
they can do anything with the profound knowledge that goody two shoes
is not going to react except by the book.

One has two choices, either change the book or begin to look
unpredictable/mad. India needs to cross this Rubicon as the current policy
is not going to deter the delinquents who are quite willing to prompt
Pukistans adventureism.

Normal rules don't really apply. Ask yourself, what is China gaining from
refusing visas to individuals from J&K. Nothing, absolutely nothing, except
to sort of poison the well. Indian response, in my opinion, completely
incorrect. India should not have reacted at all. It should have not brought up
the issue for discussion at all, in any forum.

It should have simply started staplelying ALL Indian visas to ALL Chinese
passports. Let them bring up the complaint. Simple answer, we thought
this was new Chinese protocol. You stop, we stop. Your choice.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 19 Dec 2010 19:28

How is murdering polytheists (Hindus) misinterpreting the Koran?

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 19 Dec 2010 19:35

vavinash wrote:When it comes to nuke chinkis have everything to loose. Even the FBF devices are good enough for them.

I am always left reading such statements full of bewilderment. India has no
working nukes of any real value. Not normal nukes, nor BF devices and
absolutely no TN devices.

Strange though that the Americans harped on for the good part of the
entire Clinton regime of Cap, Rollback and Eliminate all for a non
deployable and non functioning weapon system. The systems are so
unreliable that the Chinese government still says Cap, Rollback and
Eliminate. Why would these nations spend so much time on a policy with
weapon systems that do not really work?

Yes, yes I know, only 6 devices put to the test in 98 and these are
insufficient tests to prove system reliability, but hold on Israel has tested
only ONE device but she has a completely reliable and robust deterrent!

Yup, SDRE's are not as good as Israelis and due to lack of proper training
and understanding. Israeli goras on the other hand are much better
engineers that is why they need only test ONE device to prove mechanics
but we need dozens. Correct?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Dec 2010 19:58

vavinash wrote:When it comes to nuke chinkis have everything to loose. Even the FBF devices are good enough for them.

permanently banned for the use of the word chinks or chinkis. you have been warned often enough.

tejas wrote:How is murdering polytheists (Hindus) misinterpreting the Koran?

not in this thread please.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 19 Dec 2010 20:00

tejas wrote:How is murdering polytheists (Hindus) misinterpreting the Koran?

Removed in light of above post

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 19 Dec 2010 23:24

Rahul M wrote:
vavinash wrote:When it comes to nuke chinkis have everything to loose. Even the FBF devices are good enough for them.
permanently banned for the use of the word chinks or chinkis. you have been warned often enough.

Amazing love for the chinese.

If it was about pakis and abusing them , it would have been allowed, there's a dedicated thread for that, but no-no for chinese .! Sometimes mods too behave like politicians ,not angering mandarins

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 20 Dec 2010 00:00

well...maybe it is permeating fear of the chinese indians have.....the chinese can do the worst thing possible of arming pak with nuclear missiles against india but indians cannot even twist the 'chinese' spelling to vent frustration....the mentality of being slaves under british is strong indeed

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 20 Dec 2010 00:04

Samay wrote:
Rahul M wrote:.................. chinkis. you have been warned often enough.[/b]

Amazing love for the chinese.
If it was about pakis and abusing them , it would have been allowed, there's a dedicated thread for that, but no-no for chinese .! Sometimes mods too behave like politicians ,not angering mandarins

My dear friend, people use that word for our North Eastern citizens as well! In fact in North India, Delhi for example, I have heard this word used for anybody who does not have round eyes like Indians from the plain areas of India do.

Are the round eyed Indians implying that those who do not have similar eyes are not Indian enough? Even if they don't imply that, the fact that it tends to suggest something similar to others who are as proud to be Indians is reason enough to avoid using it.

And this certainly is not pleasant so I would humbly request that you think this through further.

BTW I am from the plains of Western UP, with round eyes, but I hate the usage of the word in contention, to describe a group of people.

Best regards.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 20 Dec 2010 00:14

Yes, it would be better that the word 'chinki' is used for chinese only,not for Indian citizens .
And please lets not bring NE into this, thats the chinese view of NE based upon eye-shapes .

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 20 Dec 2010 00:15

arnabh wrote:well...maybe it is permeating fear of the chinese indians have.....the chinese can do the worst thing possible of arming pak with nuclear missiles against india but indians cannot even twist the 'chinese' spelling to vent frustration....the mentality of being slaves under british is strong indeed

Wow!!!.....great insight, my dear friend. Now what other deep and hidden meanings did you pick up about us lesser mortals posting on here during your time spent on BRF?