Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Dec 2010 12:58

Rangudu wrote:Anything from "globalreasearch.ca" has about as much credibility as TSPA's Bakwasi Qureshi's press releases.

Not necessarily, unless you find nothing interesting about the long-standing relations between Assange and the establishment outlets like the Economist et al.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Dec 2010 21:05

Julian Assange is free now , but for how long , lets see

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 16 Dec 2010 23:12

Any theories on what "deal" Assange struck with Unkil?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 17 Dec 2010 03:00

Guardian has a big dump of cables from New Delhi today. Here's a biggie:

Rahul Gandhi "warns" US that Hindu groups more dangerous than LeT

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 03:08

Rahul Gandhi "warns" US that Hindu groups more dangerous than LeT

So Donkey-Raja was not speaking from his rear when it comes to his recent uttering.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 17 Dec 2010 03:10

The amazing thing was that the US ambassador was more worried about LeT's threat to India than this supposed "future leader"

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Dec 2010 03:54

WikiLeaks cables: India accused of systematic use of torture in Kashmir

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 17 Dec 2010 04:06

Rangudu wrote:The amazing thing was that the US ambassador was more worried about LeT's threat to India than this supposed "future leader"

One reason could be that Rahul can modulate LeT threat to India, while he can't do the same for the Hindu groups.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 17 Dec 2010 06:39

Altair wrote:Any theories on what "deal" Assange struck with Unkil?

Hold back cables regarding UK?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Dec 2010 07:46

The cable on ICRC and GOI is worth a careful read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-emba ... ents/30222

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Dec 2010 07:59

X Posted from the India-US Strategic News & Discussion thread.

"if you want to end malaria you have to get rid of the swamp."

Wikileaked discussions between our former National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan and FBI Director Robert Mueller:

Indian protests that America is too soft on Pakistan

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 17 Dec 2010 08:09

krishnan wrote:
Altair wrote:Any theories on what "deal" Assange struck with Unkil?
Hold back cables regarding UK?

1.Not a single comment on how US views the royal family of UK, I had lot of expectations on seeing how the Americans talk about the queen and prince
2.How US views the utility of NATO and its European allies and how US spies on them
3. How US arm twists foreign governments to get "rendition flights" and other similar stuff done

these are not going to cause any great risk to someones life but definitely a marriage breaker.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 17 Dec 2010 08:09

In media whenever these RSS and affiliated groups are accused of terrorism there is no mention "reactionary nature of these groups". It is projected as if these groups are inherently bad and terrorizing.

Hope Rahul Gandhi is smart enough to understand that if it is true that some RSS and its affiliates have taken to this route, then fodder to this is inaction of GoI in face of extremist threat from Islamist across and within our borders who dream of establishing Islamic Caliphate across India. They think of India as a Muslim property snatched by British and given to Hindus post independence.

Now what supplies fodder to Islamist across borders, within our borders, in fact Islamists anywhere and at any time post 7th century AD is a "radical & political narrative within Islam" to quote Blair.

As long as this narrative exists or at least stays relevant to Muslim psyche and thought there will be growing threat from Islamists first to all non-muslims and second to care free muslims [who mainly refer to Islam for simple religious support and ignore other elements of its narrative.]

The radicalism within RSS and its affiliates will exist/grow as long as those who are constitutionally in charge of protecting & promoting national security, Indic civilization ethos continue to [may I add deliberately] neglect their duty.

Non-muslims have been driven out of Kashmir, now what, we should be driven out of rest of India as well.

And the last point: If another country besides India would have faced such onslaught from Islamist for more than a millenium, this religion would have honestly been banned there. It is to credit of large hearted nature of Indics that it continues to flourish and be respected in this country.

US embassy cables: Ambassador warned that radical Hindu groups may pose bigger threat than LeT in India

Creeping Radicalization?

----

5. (C) Responding to the Ambassador's query about Lashkar-e-Taiba's activities in the region and immediate threat to India, Gandhi said there was evidence of some support for the group among certain elements in India's indigenous Muslim community. However, Gandhi warned, the bigger threat may be the growth of radicalized Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations with the Muslim community. (Comment: Gandhi was referring to the tensions created by some of the more polarizing figures in the BJP such as Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi.) The risk of a "home-grown" extremist front, reacting to terror attacks coming from Pakistan or from Islamist groups in India, was a growing concern and one that demanded constant attention.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 17 Dec 2010 08:34

How can a potential reactionary threat will greater than the original threat. Saying Hindu extremist groups are more dangerous than LeT show a high degree of naivete. Wonder what he will do when he becomes the PM. Scary thought. No wonder Diggy Raja has been shouting hoarse about "Hindu" terror and he is close to the Rahul Gandhi. I read recently that RG has a bunch of jhollawallahs surrounding him and Diggy must be provide the sound bytes to that group.

Recently in Gujarat, he kept harping on Narendra Modi is a demon theme and the students listening to him were clearly not impressed. He had to leave one of the meetings in a huff.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 17 Dec 2010 08:37

Guys, India related Wiki leaks are out!
Link

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Dec 2010 09:10

csharma wrote:How can a potential reactionary threat will greater than the original threat. Saying Hindu extremist groups are more dangerous than LeT show a high degree of naivete. Wonder what he will do when he becomes the PM. Scary thought. No wonder Diggy Raja has been shouting hoarse about "Hindu" terror and he is close to the Rahul Gandhi. I read recently that RG has a bunch of jhollawallahs surrounding him and Diggy must be provide the sound bytes to that group.

Recently in Gujarat, he kept harping on Narendra Modi is a demon theme and the students listening to him were clearly not impressed. He had to leave one of the meetings in a huff.

This is just an US threat to G family to not alter MMS. From US perspective MMS is doing very good job and they do not want disturbance. Hence this leak made to wikileaks. As you know there are certain moves by Gs that did not go well with uncle. This is a small warning type stuff. If the really leak all G they can't obviously stay in India.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 17 Dec 2010 09:16

Despite worries about torture, corruption and deep social problems, US diplomats still appear impressed by India's "vibrant and diverse" democracy, seeing the country as a natural ally in the region and viewing Manmohan Singh, the 77-year-old economist and prime minister, as a natural friend.

- An excerpt from Wikileaks from the US Embassy,Delhi.

Corruption and deep social problems are well known, but torture? We don't have cops who use tasers on kids,hold a gun at every traffic stop or handcuff irate moms to death at airports,do we? So what torture are they talking about? Yes,lack of sanitation,poor to non-existent roads,no running water etc..but torture? Gimme a break!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 09:26

Sumeet wrote:
Snip...........

US embassy cables: Ambassador warned that radical Hindu groups may pose bigger threat than LeT in India

Creeping Radicalization?

----

5. (C) Responding to the Ambassador's query about Lashkar-e-Taiba's activities in the region and immediate threat to India, Gandhi said there was evidence of some support for the group among certain elements in India's indigenous Muslim community. However, Gandhi warned, the bigger threat may be the growth of radicalized Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations with the Muslim community. (Comment: Gandhi was referring to the tensions created by some of the more polarizing figures in the BJP such as Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi.) The risk of a "home-grown" extremist front, reacting to terror attacks coming from Pakistan or from Islamist groups in India, was a growing concern and one that demanded constant attention.

Modi has become the nemisis of the UPA and so called secular forces. AS long as he lives he will continue to be attacked by thes Idiots.

I am surprised that these Idiots are not going after Nitish Kumar the same way. I fear that a time will come that they will start to go after him the same way.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Dec 2010 09:35

I see the leaks of Rahul talking about Hindu fundamentalists at a bigger picture than even MMS stuff I wrote above. If we see the entire leaks from the day it started it is very simple -

The theme is that USA is NOT anti islam.. It is always helping the muslim countries what ever they are asking us to do and nothing else.
(1) Most of the arabs asked us to hit Iran. We are trying peace buy we are being pressurised by them
(2) Osama Bin etc. cannot be tolerated as they are attacking westerners. They are terrorists and not islam like all of ummah that includes Pakistan.
(3) India is also under check, we recognize that Indians torture JK muslim civilians and we are working with them. Even their great leader Rahul Gandhi also recognized that it is not LeT that is the issues, it the Hindu groups that is major problem. We are working with the Indians to help Pakistani needs.

We are doing a lot of help to muslims especially sunnis and also removing the threat to them. For example we will not tolerate India's assent into Afghanistan, we will not tolerate torture in JK and we will smash Iran's nukes. By the way we are helping to protect teh sunni nukes in Pakistan. We are struggling but we are helping you all my dear friends.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Dec 2010 09:40

3. (C) Rajan told Charge that this trip was part of an effort on the part of the Iranian government to encourage anti-American, pro-Muslim scholars and think-tankers in India to influence Prime Minister Singh's supporters to take a more pro-Iranian, anti-U.S. view, and that his presence on the delegation would have handed Iran a PR coup. In light of his suspicions, Rajan canceled at the last minute, citing a sudden family emergency. Following is the invitee list, which Rajan provided to Charge:

-- XXXXXXXXXXXX

Is this normal procedure for a NSAB head to rush to US embassy to provide a list of what all confidential stuff happened between two other governments?

Isnt this what moles do ( not saying Shri Rajan is a mole but am perplexed by why Indian top officials should rush to US embassy with confidential data with GoI backing it!!)...

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2010 09:40

Rangudu wrote:Guardian has a big dump of cables from New Delhi today. Here's a biggie:

Rahul Gandhi "warns" US that Hindu groups more dangerous than LeT

This joker is proving to be the biggest disaster......Lets see how much outrage this causes in India. When even BRFites continue to hold 'healthy respect' for this family, I see very little hope for the country. My guess is some inconsequential diplomat being frisked in the US will start hogging headlines, and will likely cause this issue to be soon forgotten.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 10:05

Long time back in the FHL threads we wondered what do uncle and FHL discuss? Looks like they discuss Hindus!

Confirms this old presentation 400%!

http://www.slideshare.net/vepa/indian-elite-research

When it was created it was done with bits and pieces of evidence. Now wikipee confirms it.
Again BRF ahead of the curve.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Dec 2010 10:45

US embassy cables: India a diffident ally in the 'war on terror' - US

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-emba ... ents/97802

While India has been very keen to receive information and technology from us to further its counter-terrorism efforts, India provides little in return

India frequently rebuffs our offers of support for their police investigations of terrorist attacks, and our offers of training and support are often met with a stalled logistical pace

Another consideration to keep in mind is that our perception of India's lack of cooperation on U.S. CT concerns often stems in part from India's lack of capacity to manage these issues bureaucratically

There is much India could offer us of value to strengthen our counter-terrorism efforts. For instance, they can give us more information about the nature of the terrorist threat in India and South Asia, and help us develop new strategies for defeating terrorists derived from India's experience in Kashmir. They also may have information about Bangladeshi, Nepalese, Sri Lankan, and Pakistani terrorists that they could share.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 11:00

Khans want India to share information so that the real terrorists can be warned that they have been compromised.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 17 Dec 2010 11:17

Gerard wrote:WikiLeaks cables: India accused of systematic use of torture in Kashmir

I am expecting a torrential flood of accusations from the press, especially of the western neighbor any time from now. Any ideas on how to go about the debate for this one?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Dec 2010 11:22

Sumeet wrote:In media whenever these RSS and affiliated groups are accused of terrorism there is no mention "reactionary nature of these groups". It is projected as if these groups are inherently bad and terrorizing.

Hope Rahul Gandhi is smart enough to understand that if it is true that some RSS and its affiliates have taken to this route, then fodder to this is inaction of GoI in face of extremist threat from Islamist across and within our borders who dream of establishing Islamic Caliphate across India. They think of India as a Muslim property snatched by British and given to Hindus post independence.

Sumeet, very often the "reactionary groups" themselves are stage-managed by those who want to show themselves as saviors. Muthalik and Ram Sene being an example.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2010 11:48

question in my mind is - so far yuvraj has escaped any dirt sticking but refusing to take any official role in Govt. he was 'won' by refusing to enter the battleground. will The Family take the risk of pushing him through to PM ? or will they be content to exercise 300% power without accountability from behind the screen of party functionaries? will they groom him with a important cabinet post or like his late father push him directly from party post to PM post ? the risk in taking up any official post is that he might goof up and sully his image, the taint of some scandal might touch him....

would he be seen as a desirable candidate from the POV of Khan saheb ?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Dec 2010 12:15

The real fun will start when cables related to Iraqi Oil for Cash cables get released. Remember that one? Volcker was involved?

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 12:19

Rahul Gandhi's Saffron threat-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O8dgmi58k-Y/S ... 00/veronic

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 17 Dec 2010 12:47

When Sonia Gandhi met Maria Shriver...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-emba ... ents/73748

In a relaxed August 3, 2006 conversation with California first lady Maria Shriver, Sonia Gandhi revealed a rare glimpse of herself.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 17 Dec 2010 12:50

Singha wrote: will they groom him with a important cabinet post or like his late father push him directly from party post to PM post ?

They want to airdrop the doofus into the hot seat alright. Remember the angry reactions recently when Nitish Kumar suggested Rahul should try being a chief minister first?

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 17 Dec 2010 12:57

I don't think RG is that stupid to jump at the PM's post anytime in the next decade. He knows as well as anybody that his weaknesses will be magnified and so called charisma will go to the dogs, just like in the case of his good friend Omar Abdullah.

On the wikileaks thing, these reports should never be taken @ face vlaue. I mean why would Rahul Gandhi telll US envoy about the threat from hindu terror. It makes no sense. If he wanted political gains then he would have said it in a public rally or press conference, why to a US ambassador ??

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Dec 2010 12:59

Nihat wrote: On the wikileaks thing, these reports should never be taken @ face vlaue. I mean why would Rahul Gandhi telll US envoy about the threat from hindu terror. It makes no sense. If he wanted political gains then he would have said it in a public rally or press conference, why to a US ambassador ??

To show Americans that he is "secular", "balanced" and "fair-minded".

amit · Post by **amit** » 17 Dec 2010 13:06

arjunm wrote:Rahul Gandhi's Saffron threat-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O8dgmi58k-Y/S ... 00/veronic

Don't you think that's a bit below the belt? That picture is from a time before he had entered politics and at that point of time there was no much talk of him doing so. In fact his sister seemed to be the candidate of choice then.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 17 Dec 2010 13:07

^^
He is counting on American blessings in case MMS had to leave. Why would he need American blessings to become Indian PM?
ABV was Indian PM and LKA was running the show. NM is the CM of most business generating state in India. They surely did not have/need American blessings. Why then does this dude need to impress some firangi?

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 13:09

To show Americans that he is "secular", "balanced" and "fair-minded".

Yeh, something akin to noble savage.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 13:10

ABV was Indian PM and LKA was running the show.

Nope Sir, it was Brajesh Mishra

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 13:26

Nihat wrote:I don't think RG is that stupid to jump at the PM's post anytime in the next decade. He knows as well as anybody that his weaknesses will be magnified and so called charisma will go to the dogs, just like in the case of his good friend Omar Abdullah.

On the wikileaks thing, these reports should never be taken @ face vlaue. I mean why would Rahul Gandhi telll US envoy about the threat from hindu terror. It makes no sense. If he wanted political gains then he would have said it in a public rally or press conference, why to a US ambassador ??

Because he is a retard with IQ stands on the lower slope of the Bell Curve at below 80.

Watch this video how this guy's stupid stereo type comment was right away slammed by students in Bihar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2lt7H3ACFE&NR=1

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 13:33

Singha wrote:question in my mind is - so far yuvraj has escaped any dirt sticking but refusing to take any official role in Govt. he was 'won' by refusing to enter the battleground. will The Family take the risk of pushing him through to PM ? or will they be content to exercise 300% power without accountability from behind the screen of party functionaries? will they groom him with a important cabinet post or like his late father push him directly from party post to PM post ? the risk in taking up any official post is that he might goof up and sully his image, the taint of some scandal might touch him....

would he be seen as a desirable candidate from the POV of Khan saheb ?

The Kangress will try to push hime to the post of the PM directly. But for that to happen he will have to win 2014. Any attempt to bring hm in before that will destroy the chance for 2014. He has shown himself to be man of no imagination. Of no substantial opinions. He thinks that by harping on 2 Indias and not saying how the problems can be solved. He is showing himself to be smart. He has not. Every one of his actions till date have been one or the other acts of media circus.

For the real Issues I have not herd him say a single word. One big showoff if ever there was one. The only thing he has going for him is his name. Even that will not help him if things keep on going this way till 2014.

JMT

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 13:41

Congress reacted and put spin on Rahul's WIKI remarks-

As the BJP attacked Gandhi for the comments that US Ambassador Timothy Roemer wrote about in a cable dated August 2009, the Congress issued this statement early this afternoon: "Rahul Gandhi's view is that terrorism and communalism of all types is a threat to India. We need to remain vigilant against acts of terrorism of all kinds..no matter who commits them."

http://www.ndtv.com/article/wikileaks revelations/rahul-responds-to-wikileaks-controversy-on-hin

Another Kangressi Gl.Secretary Janardan Diwedi smells Conspiracy against Rahul

"Let us verify the truth. May be there is some conspiracy behind the pattern with which this all is being done," party general secretary Janardan Diwedi said when asked about his reaction to the WikiLeaks release.

: WikiLeaks cable: Congress suspects conspiracy, BJP slams Rahul Gandhi - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z18MB2KmNs